Even “Perfect” Pet Parents Face This Brutal Truth with Bre Drake

Sit down with Dr. Jessica Levy, Melissa Weidenhamer, and Bre Drake from Tailswell to unpack two of the toughest truths in the holistic pet space: it takes courage and there is no “easy button.”

Together, we dive into the reality behind natural pet care—the time, intention, and emotional investment it takes to choose a holistic path for your animals. From nutrition and lifestyle to preventative care, this conversation pulls back the curtain on what it really means to go “all in” on your pet’s wellness.

But perhaps even more importantly, we explore the hard truth that many pet parents aren’t prepared for: sometimes, despite doing everything “right”—feeding clean, avoiding toxins, supporting the body naturally—our pets can still get sick. And when that happens, it can bring guilt, confusion, and doubt.

This episode is a grounding reminder that holistic care isn’t about perfection—it’s about informed choices, resilience, and compassion for both our animals and ourselves.

If you’ve ever questioned your path, felt the weight of responsibility, or wondered if you’re doing enough, this honest and empowering conversation is for you.

Resources:

Tailswellhealth- follow Bre on Instagram

Love Your Dogs Podcast- check out her YouTube channel and amazing podcast!

Dogs Naturally- a great website where you can search thousands of articles.

The Vital Animal- a favorite for holistic animal education including the rabies topic.

Fleabusters RX- a non-toxic flea solution

The Forever Dog- by Rodney Habib and Dr Karen Shaw Becker(Bre's gateway book)

Don't miss future episodes!

Make sure to follow to catch more insight into the holistic approach for animals in an inviting, honest, and realistic way, right here on The Crunchy Carnivore Podcast.

Connect with Dr Levy & Melissa

Instagram |  wellspring_haa

YouTube | Wellspring Holistic Animal Academy - YouTube

Website | wellspringhaa.com

Email | wellspringhaa@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So like most, I was doing all of the things. I was doing the kibble, the routine vet care, all the vaccines, all the philantic preventatives. Thought I was being a responsible dog owner, very much a rule follower. And my wake-up call was when our older golden Anne was starting to show signs of arthritis. She was slowing down a lot, getting really stiff, and that didn't feel normal. And that was me saying, okay, I finally have to start doing something. So I started to look into more of a holistic approach. And through that, I started making a lot of changes in the food, working with a more integrative veterinarian. And then seeing the real improvements, um, or when I started seeing the real improvements is unfortunately when both of my dogs were diagnosed with cancer. And um, within that same year, I lost them within five months of each other, which you know shattered me, changed everything, and you know, changed the way I see dog health. It made me realize how much I didn't know. Then I thought I knew everything because I followed what my vet said. And, you know, everything that I trusted was just standard and not optimal health. So that's really what led me to this place was getting a little taste of it, making the changes, seeing the improvements, and then being slammed with the reality that no matter, you know, if it's been a long time, I mean, my dogs were both like seven and eleven years old when I made the switch. And it's really hard to undo that. It does take a long time, and I recognize that. So that's what made me really passionate about this. And I've always been very dog passionate. And once I learned this, I'm like, I've got to start sharing it with as many people as I know because it destroyed me. I mean, absolutely wrecked me. Feel so betrayed and heartbroken.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

Welcome to another episode of the Crunchy Carnivore Podcast. I'm Melissa Weidenhammer and I'm here with Dr. Jessica Levy. And today we have the privilege of having Brie Drake on with us. Brie is somebody that we got to connect with in and around the Super Dog Summit, which was a virtual holistic dog summit that we all got to kind of teach at on different topics. Um, and we just really connected and aligned with Brie. Um, and a lot of the things that she was speaking were were very much the same. Um, and so we really wanted to do this podcast together. Um, and so um, Bri, welcome to the Crunchy Carnivore podcast. Hello, hello.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

So happy to be here with you guys. I'm always saying that I'm so envious that you guys get to get together like this all the time. You're amazing.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

We'll have to do Zooms for fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

I know, or you know, have me anytime.

SPEAKER_04 2:38

Yes, absolutely. So, Bri, for those who maybe um aren't familiar with you, we would just love to have you um maybe just uh clearly you're in the holistic animal space. That's why you're here. But um I think we we just always love to have people start with how did you get here? Because we all get here in such unique um and different ways. So if you would just share a little bit about your story um and what brought you to the holistic approach.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Yeah, so like most, I was doing all of the things I was doing, the kibble, the routine vet care, all the vaccines, all the phleantic preventatives. Thought I was being a responsible dog owner, very much a rule follower. And my wake-up call was when our older golden Anne was starting to show signs of arthritis. She was slowing down a lot, getting really stiff, and that didn't feel normal. And that was me saying, okay, I finally have to start doing something. So I started to look into more of a holistic approach. And through that, I started making a lot of changes in the food, working with a more integrative veterinarian. And then seeing the real improvements, um, or when I started seeing the real improvements is unfortunately when both of my dogs were diagnosed with cancer. And um, within that same year, I lost them within five months of each other, which you know shattered me, changed everything, and you know, changed the way I see dog health. It made me realize how much I didn't know. Then I thought I knew everything because I followed what my vet said. And, you know, everything that I trusted was just standard and not optimal health. So that's really what led me to this place was getting a little taste of it, making the changes, seeing the improvements, and then being slammed with the reality that no matter, you know, if it's been a long time, I mean, my dogs were both like seven and eleven years old when I made the switch. And it's really hard to undo that. It does take a long time, and I recognize that. So that's what made me really passionate about this. And I've always been very dog passionate. And once I learned this, I'm like, I've got to start sharing it with as many people as I know because it destroyed me. I mean, absolutely wrecked me. Feel so betrayed and heartbroken. It was just awful. So that's it in a nutshell, a very short version of the story.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

Well, I am so sorry to hear that. And I I mean, a lot of people they've lost at dog, but to lose two um and so close together, I can't even imagine um what that was what that was like. Um so you you've become very passionate about holistic health for dogs. So where has that brought you? You said your life is completely different, right? Like everything has changed. And so uh, like what is what does your life look like now? How is it different than before? And what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Yeah, so it obviously shifted my focus completely from like reacting to problems with my dog to understanding like how to prevent them in the first place. And I realized there's this whole foundation of dog health that they don't tell you about when you go to normal conventional vets. There's diet, there's environment, there's immune system support. And so now what I do is I help dog owners kind of step into that space. And I do that through online education, I do that through working with them one-on-one. Um, I help them make more informed decisions and build healthier dogs from the ground up instead of trying to micromanage everything by going to the vet and trusting in their their schedule. So um so for a living now, that's that's kind of a loaded question because while I'm often accused of making a whole lot of money doing what I do, that's that's not the case. I'm probably more at a loss for doing what I do. And I have a very, so I have a background, a corporate background in finance and accounting. And then I transitioned into freelance creative work, doing photography and graphic design. And, you know, losing my dogs obviously shifted my focus to wanting to help dog people. And it's kind of crazy that all of those skills that I had from later in life that are completely unrelated or seemingly unrelated to holistic dog health, they've helped me organize and present information in a way that's engaging for dog parents and easy to understand. And um, so I while I love doing what I do and I put a lot of work into it, that's really not how I make a living. I still make a living doing the graphic design work to kind of keep money coming in the door. And I would working to grow this more to where I can put it, make it my main focus because I am so passionate about it. And honestly, focusing on anything but helping people with their animals is extremely difficult right now. But the reality is I need it to survive. So um that's where we're at. I think that answers that question.

SPEAKER_04 7:27

Yeah, no, that's great. And I think um, you know, you've you know, I think when I first found you, um, and it was before we really connected personally through messaging and the summit. Um, it was back when I was still breeding and Nicole and I were doing stuff together. And I think you found us, maybe. Yeah, or we started following you. I mean, you were brand, brand new. And immediately Nicole and I were just like, oh my gosh, like this is one of our girls right here. Because just the way that you present the information, you have such a gift for getting to the heart and the truth of like any topic. It's very, very um, it's inspiring for those of us that are trying to push this movement and bring awareness and share education and empower people, you know, out of fear and all of those things. Um, I just I absolutely love the way that you communicate and teach because I think it's very refreshing and I think people need it. Um, they need honesty, and you are just so good at being honest in a way that people can receive it for the most part. Um, so I just I love watching you grow from the very, very beginning. What would you say is um with what you do now, you know, when you do get to focus on your your the the dog part of your vocation, right? Like you've got the kind of other thing. And um what are what's kind of your favorite part um of what you do in kind of the holistic dog world? And then what are some of your biggest challenges?

SPEAKER_00 9:02

So my favorite part, hands down, is the moment when someone I've been working with it makes a decision on their own, um makes that connection. They they handle something at home on their own, and I see the confidence just blossom out of them and I know like they're gonna be good from here on out. Like that's that's the best feeling for me. And that that does happen often where I'm like, oh yes, this is what I've been waiting for. They're finally, you know, they're finally leaving the nest and they're they're realizing they can do this, they don't need to run to the vet for everything. Like that always feels amazing to me. But on the flip side of that, there's I I feel like I see a lot of um anxiousness in dog parents who the dog parents who are reaching out to learn more about holistic dog care because they care so much. I mean, I was this dog parent that would go to the vet for everything, trusted the vet for everything. I feel like they're applying that same anxious mindset to holistic dog health. You know, they're they're switching to raw feeding, but then they're micromanaging every single stool, every single change, and just obsessing over it and stressing over it. And we know how much stress can affect our dogs. Our dogs need us to be regulated. So I feel like in a lot of ways, there's dog parents who are learning this. And I know there is an adjustment period. I went through a period of overwhelming anxiety, but I fear that some of some people aren't thoroughly getting it, that we want to be more grounded. Holistic means being calm, stepping back, observing, being patient. So that's that's one of the things I struggle with. That and I guess this goes hand in hand. These same people who are getting more anxious or reaching out constantly for guidance instead of trying to make decisions on their own, if that makes sense. I know Dr. Levy, you probably probably deal with this a lot of clients.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Yeah, because um, Melissa, you and I were talking earlier about how to how to help people access their intuitive nature.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

And that that I think is like that's a big challenge. Because if your mind is going like a million miles an hour, you're not gonna be able to hear it.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

And then I the way I think about it too is um because my even when I was in conventional medicine, my practice has been intuitive for a very long time. And I'm always afraid that if I if I don't listen to it or if I argue with my intuition that it will stop speaking to me. And so I kind of made a deal very early on that whatever intuition says, I must do, and I've regretted it every time I have not gone that way. But but it's kind of so easy for pet parents to be overwhelmed by the seeming factoids that kind of pour out of the veterinarian's mouth.

SPEAKER_04 12:03

Yeah, I think um really what we were just discussing with this and uh is when people we we always try and be very upfront with people that this is not a swap. Right? This is not a swap. This is not um, it's not just I'm using conventional flea and flea and tick meds, so now I'm gonna use the natural flea and tick preventative. Um, I'm not gonna do kibble anymore, but I'm gonna do fresh food. It's not just a swap, there's a whole perspective shift that you need to do. And and a big part of it is in is is looking at yourself and realizing what is motivating every decision you're making. Because even if the decisions you're making are better decisions, if you're doing it because you're afraid that it's you know of X, Y, Z, you know, um, you're still making decisions out of fear. That is not you, you will only get so far in the natural approach if you stay stuck in that mode, that anxious and fear, fear-based place. And so, you know, I think really like the biggest things we were like, what is it that we can, what can we do to help people recognize that that's where it's coming from? Because I do think I didn't realize I was living from a place of fear when I was bringing my dog to a conventional vet and they were giving me medications and they were vaccinating and I was feeding. I didn't realize I was fearful. And so it's like, what is it that we can do to even have people do some self-reflection and realize where where is my motivation? Right. And so I think that's a big part of it is just for people to ask themselves, am I doing something? Am I doing this thing because I'm supposed to? Am I doing this thing because I'm afraid if I don't do this thing, this thing will happen, right? Put in whatever you want. It needs to be more from a place of okay, what's what's actually best? And in order to do that, you need to remove emotion, which is very difficult because we love them so much, right? We are so passionate, and so I do think everybody needs to give themselves some grace because we are coming from a fear-driven system, and you have to regulate yourself. And I will say, and I've said this before, and Nicole has said it before one of Dr. Levy's gifts is that she does that when you come in, okay, and you're like, oh my gosh, and they have this problem and I don't know what to do. And I was gonna get into breathing. That was a whole other thing. And I was like, oh my god. And she's like, Well, what about this? And she just simply asks questions or she gets you to stop and think. And so I think that's the biggest thing for people to realize is that you need to do a little self-reflection, realize that you are living in a state of fear with these decisions, and you don't want to do anything from fear. We can't make good decisions if we're in fear. And then I think really the the other solutions to that is the more you can surround yourself with like-minded people, right? The more they can follow people like you, Brie, or listen to our podcasts or your podcast, or there's so many great people out there. There's so many great voices, there's so many great, you know, there's really some great communities that are being built where there's thousands of people that are all saying the same thing. You know, I'm afraid to do this thing for my dog ever again because I watched him have a seizure on the floor. You know, this killed my dog. I don't ever want to do that again. Go to those places because that's where you're gonna be reaffirmed and not and not question yourself when you're in that fragile state. It's a fragile state in the beginning, and it is a lot to learn. And so give yourself grace, surround yourself with like-minded people. And then this is the thing, you have to learn. You have to be willing to educate yourself. Knowledge is power. That's not just some kitschy little saying. Knowledge is power. I cannot tell you the more I learn, the more bold I become. The more I learn, the more of a spine I have. The more I learn, the harder the line is drawn in the sand. And so, um, and I know you're very much the same way. So I think this problem of fear, it is a big, it's the biggest problem. It is probably the biggest challenge, I think, that we all come up against. And so the more people that we can help to realize that they're even there, they might be going, well, wait, wait, wait, I don't want to be living in fear. I don't want to make decisions out of fear. And then, you know, they can kind of baby step their way into learning better, doing better than they did yesterday, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yeah, exactly. I'm I mean, anything that I've ever been fearful of, I mean, there's no excuse now. We have knowledge at our fingertips. Anything anything that's bringing you fear, you can get online, you can look at trusted blog. I know I don't know how you guys feel about dogs naturally, but they I always blogs to kind of at least take people off the get people off the ledge. Um it really just takes diving in and understanding what you're dealing with. I mean, the fear around ticks, and I see more circulating right now with spring coming.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

And it's like, guys, understand what the tick life cycle looks like, understand what it takes for them to transmit disease, understand how much immune strength plays into this. And the more you understand all of that, there's not so much to be fearful of. I mean, people aren't blocking their dogs outside and aren't taking their dogs on hikes because they're terrified of ticks, or they're poisoning their dogs because they're terrified of ticks. So yeah, it's what I try and instill in people too. Anytime they're fearful about something, like here's a couple of articles, you know, here's my opinion on it, here's a couple articles from like-minded people, here's some accounts you should follow. So they exactly comfort. They're like, it's okay, it's not just coming from this person, all of these people agree. And yeah, it's it's it's wild the the fear spirals that people will go into.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

And I will say really quick too, um, it is, you know, you and I kind of messaged a little bit about that on Instagram. The more we can share each other's things um in our stories or or whatever else, they need to hear it from more people, right? Than just you or than just us. And I mean, there is power in numbers in that. And it and it is a tremendous, it's a it's a tidal wave that we are coming up against when it comes to pressure and fear.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

So right, but fear sells. I mean, so that's that's true. That's that's why it's presented that way. I think, you know, starting about this time, every year I start to get emails sometimes from my clients, sometimes from random people. I heard Lyme disease is gonna be really bad this year. I heard heartworm disease is spreading further north. And I just tell people every year, every year they say this. How else are they gonna keep us buying the stuff if we're not constantly petrified?

SPEAKER_04 19:22

Right, right. So don't be a victim, right? Like don't buy in to all of this. It's marketing and it's it like they're it's it's it's they're they're selling an ideology, they're selling products, like right, there's there's a lot, there's and the oh man, if you don't do XYZ, you are not a good dog owner. I tell you what, that is what we people come to the table. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

So, Bree, you said that that one of the resources that got you started was the forever dog.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Yes, believe it or not. And um, so after Ann was having the struggle with her arthritis, and I think the vet that I took her to said she had some hip dysplasia too. Um, I had reached out to a friend and who's had been raw feeding for a little while and was telling her how I started raw feeding. And she says, Oh, you have to read the Forever Dog book. It's gonna make you so angry, but it's gonna change your life. And it did. I mean, but that was my first really big intro, like the original Forever Dog, the big, chunky one, the dense one. Um, I enjoyed it. And I don't, I mean, it's been years since I've read it, so I don't know how much I still completely agree with, but it opened, you know, it was like the gateway drug for me into all of this stuff. And then I think the the most profound gateway drug after that was Dr. was vitalanimal.com, Dr. William Falconers. The breeder I got pine from shared a lot of his podcast episodes and articles on their website, and that's how I found out about him. And I was like, wow, I I inhaled all of his information. Like, this is great.

SPEAKER_03 20:57

So, what do you find that that most people or like the when people contact you with questions about their pets' health, like what's the biggest question that you get?

SPEAKER_00 21:09

So the biggest questions I get are usually about feeding, about you know, what recipe do you feed your dog? Oh, okay. Talking about swaps, and I mean, bless their hearts. If if this would have been five years ago, I would be asking the same thing because I knew nothing about fresh food feeding. I knew I should all I knew in the back of my mind I should be feeding my dogs real food, but I didn't know how to approach it. I knew it was going to be more work, so I was just like, I'll just keep feeding them the kibble. They look healthy, they seem fine. So I know where people are coming from when they ask that question. But there's that one. There's what do you do for flea and tick prevention? Which a lot of these questions are people just looking for swaps. They're just looking for that one thing. And although I would love to answer every single person, we know that that answer is individualized. It's gonna vary based on location and uh lifestyle, all the things. Um, but then the other question. Question I get a lot is around the rabies vaccine. A lot of people are terrified and don't know what to do because it's required in their state or in their municipality, and they're wondering what they can do. That's another common one.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think Will Falconer has some some decent answers to the rabies issue.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Um, and that that is uh toughy. I I always uh suggest like one of the things that we can do for our dogs is not put them in a situation where that question is going to be brought up. And so if we turn our dogs into good citizens, and if we're good citizens, don't let our dogs bark in the yard at midnight, don't let them run loose in the neighborhood.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

There's so many videos on YouTube of you know the Amazon drivers pulling up and people open the door and let the pit bulls out. Don't don't do that. And so some of it is just like basic stuff that we can do. Take your dog to training, get a get a CGC, get a canine good citizen on them. You know, even if you don't want to do any other training or any other kind of competition or anything with them, at least have a well-behaved dog.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Yeah. So don't put don't insert them into situations where authorities could get involved. Correct. We don't want them biting anyone else, we don't want them biting any other dog. That's where that's where a lot of questions get raised, and that's where vets are required to report it.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

Yep, correct. So you say a lot of people kind of they come to you and they they they want a swap. That's what you're saying, is is you get that a lot. And um, we get that to a degree. Um and so I think what would be an interesting conversation is, you know, what do people want the easy swap for when they're coming to you?

SPEAKER_00 23:59

I think I think flea and tick prevention might be one of the bigger ones. Ear infections. There's always, what do you give a dog for an ear infection? And it's like, well, that could look like a lot of different things. There could be a lot of observing, a lot of, you know, less is more when it comes to the ear problems. So they there's a lot of looking for a one, a one homeopathic even or one remedy or one um kind one rinse, one herb. They're always looking for one thing that they can give. And how many times a day do I give it for how many days? Like they're still very much blending that allopathic way of thinking. And then in the flea and tick arena, especially, it's like I'm used to giving brevecto once every three months. And now, can I just give this internal powder every day? Can I just spray them down with Wonderside every day? Can I just put this essential oil collar on? And I have been thrown through a full flea course this past year and have learned that it's it comes down to so much more than worrying about repelling every single flea and tick. Like we have to get the dog's internal terrain right, we have to support them internally so they're less reactive. Because in a place, I'm somewhere where the flea pressure is real, and I've tried every single topical, doesn't make a dent. And it comes down to the fact that my dog, I mean, he's right here this whole time. He's not frantically itchy. I'm combing fleas off him every day, but it's because he's supported well internally and because I try my best to manage the environment, which I'm working on more. But I've I've definitely myself gravitated more away from okay, I'm gonna try to prevent every single flea and tick from getting on my dog too. I just have to manually check every day and I have to make sure that if he does get bit, he can handle it. And a lot of people are just there, it's hard for them to shift away from giving that treatment where fleas and ticks are virtually non-existent because every any that they come into contact with bites and dies to it's gonna be okay to see one now and then. And you're gonna have a plan in place. If you see a tick, you're gonna remove it and you're gonna make sure your dog is supported. So yeah, there's there's a lot of that mentality still, control. A lot they want control over the situation.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

But that's also kind of it's it still is fear-based, right? Yeah, and I I have clients who are terrified of their dogs getting fleas. Yeah, and and I I also went through the whole flea scenario. Um, I think it was about three years ago, and I tell you what, Flea Busters saved my life. What is Flea Busters is a buffered boric acid powder 100% safe. I bought it from the Flea Busters website. Okay, and it it comes in like in a in a jug, and it kind of tells you how much square footage it covers.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

Um, and it is it indoors and outdoors, or uh, we didn't use it outdoors. Okay. Can you? I don't think so. I can't remember. I looked it up and I can't remember. I mean, we were living in the woods. We there was a lot of outdoors. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

That's where I'm at. Like I can't control very much.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

No, but it was it was we went through we went through non-chemicals, we went through chemicals, which seriously my dogs had very bad reactions to, and I regret it to this day. Um, and plus it didn't work.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

Plus it didn't work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

And flea busters uh for for my household turned out to be the magic answer. Um, but I I've had clients who've said that it hasn't worked for them. So I don't know if they haven't treated the entire house or didn't read the directions or yeah, I don't know. We were we were diligent with the flea busters, and luckily for us, it was it was like a dream come true.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Yeah, I think our problem here is the environment really outside. We have very small square footage inside that's hardwood, and I vacuum every single day, and we we never fly in fleas on ourselves anywhere in the house. He just picks them up, he picks them up every time he goes outside. So I just flee every time he comes in, I hit him with a flea comb for a month a minute or two. It becomes habit, and if there's any crawling ticks, I catch them in the comb too. I'm like, that is the most underrated, not talked about just using a flea comb every day. And it kills all the adult fleas. You catch any ticks because people are asking, oh, well, what if you miss the tick? It's like, well, if you're checking every day, you're probably you're probably gonna catch them within at least a day or two, and that's not the end of the world. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Right. Yeah. I remember um uh I went, it's like several years ago. I went camping with a friend of mine, and we got to the cabin that we were staying at, and just very casually she pulled out a flea comb and kind of laid her dog on his back, got a glass of water, and started combing fleas off of him. And I was like, Oh my god, we've been in the car all day together. Me and my little dog, she and her little dog. Oh, and uh I was kind of like shocked at the whole scenario that played out in front of me. And yet my little dog never got fleas, didn't get fleas from that dog.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Yeah, that's my life. I mean, I have you might be able to see it. I have a bowl of water on the counter that's for fleas, full of fleas and soapy water. And but I worry about that. I'm self-conscious. I'm like, I can't, I don't want to bring them to anyone's house because people are so grossed out by the fleas. It's like, well, they have a host, they're mostly gonna stay on their host. That's why we don't have a problem inside. They stay on him if they're in here and usually they're canned off. So yeah, my whole perspective on it has totally changed. But I am trying to normalize the flea comb for people in hot, humid climates like me, because that's really the best thing you can do if you want to go natural. I mean, that's all I've found that's really worked. And then the yard, we've been working really hard on our yard too. Um, we have shade and pine straw and leaves, and it's just the perfect flea habitat. So we're working on cleaning that up, and that's something I've been trying to share with people too. Like they they exist in little pockets, and if you have a yard with some little shade pockets, spray some beneficial nematodes there. You can use Wonderside yard spray occasionally, and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

I think so. I I like hearing kind of what you're talking about where you know people they they want, well, I just if I don't do this, then I just want to do this one thing. Um, and and they're really I think there are so many people looking for an easy button because we've been kind of fed convenience regardless of the cost to the dogs. And I think it's you know, aside from I think the fear is the biggest challenge at at first, but right behind it is is the convenience part of it. Um, and I think, you know, the reality is like when you when you come to the table and you're like, okay, well, I get that this isn't good, so I want to do what is good, it's gonna take some work. There is there is no easy button for doing holistic. And the reason is because you have to do the work to build from the inside out, and that there's a lot of factors to that. And so, you know, I think what people need to maybe just really accept, okay, and and then you need to decide is are you willing? It takes learning, like you have to be willing to learn, invest some time, and invest some money on the front end. It's the way it is, that's just the way it is, and that's how you get from where you are to where you want to be. But the reality is not everybody's built for that. Not everybody's built for it, not everybody has the capacity. Maybe their life is just too full, it's too hard, they don't have the mental, whatever it is. You have to kind of figure out where are you on that spectrum? And are you willing? It does you don't have to know everything right off the bat either, though. I think a lot of people come to the table, they're like, this is so much to know, I can't do this, and then they walk away. One thing at a time, right? It's it's one thing at a time, but you do have to be aware that it takes relearning, it takes unlearning and relearning um in order to kind of be successful on this side of the fence. Um, and it it's not is being organized and ordering the raw food and having the freezer space and you know, switching up the variety, is that hard? At the beginning it's hard, right? Well, it's way easier to scoop kibble into a bowl until it's not because your dog has allergy meds and prescription kibble, and you're in and out of the vet, and the bills are getting higher, and then we have cancer, right? So it's it's really you you choose your hard. And what what I think a lot of us would say that that did that, it's really only hard at first, and it becomes second nature pretty quickly. Um, I think when I think back to when I transitioned, I was pretty, pretty anxiety-riddled about the food. And I think a lot of people start there, they don't want to mess up the food. Uh, it's gonna be on balance. I'm gonna kill my dog. That's what people think. And so you're like every, you're measuring everything and whatever. There is a little bit of that when you're learning it, um, much more relaxed now, just like you are, I'm sure. Um, but the hard is really, it's really in the beginning. And it is hard. And it is, it's a lot at once. I mean, you're having to let go of fear, you're having to learn something new, you're having to develop new habits, you have to invest some money up front. I mean, there's there's a handful of things that are that are hard. But when I think those of us that have had such tragic loss, it overrides the heart. You're like, I don't even care. I don't care what I have to do. I am never going to put an animal through that again. So for those people that are in between, listen to those of us that have had those. Listen to those that have watched our dog die at three years old of cancer or seven, right? Or didn't make it to eight or whatever it is, or they had to watch their dog have seizures their whole life and they died at six. These are the people when they're like, nope, this is the right way to do things, learn from their mistakes, maybe, and realize that that's where you're headed. If you're not going to choose this hard, it's gonna be that hard, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I'm always in such admiration of people who are being proactive, that have young, healthy dogs with no issues and that are willing to learn about this stuff. So I'm like, it took a major slap in the face for me to finally suck it up and do it. So I have a lot of respect. And that's great advice for anyone. I I guess I would ch I always challenge people to to at least try raw feeding for a few months or try fresh food feeding for a few months. And seeing the changes makes you an instant believer. I mean, that's what sold me right away. I mean, my my older golden Anne, she she changed immediately within a couple of weeks. Her life came back, her coat was shiny. I mean, it was incredible. So that that you know, but gets people bought in really fast. But um, I wanted to mention too that the being, I mean, I'm not a vet, I'm always very transparent about that. I don't have any kind of animal science or medical background. I am certified in holistic pet health coaching, but I think about conventional vets and how you know they see dogs for five, 10, 15 minutes at the most. And dog parents are so used to getting that symptom-suppressing drug, it going away, they move on with their life, everything's fine. And when I work with people, we meet for at least an hour, and then I'm giving them ongoing support. And a lot of the things we're doing are definitely not going to be overnight successes and changes. So that's another challenge I'm frequently dealing with is keeping people on the path who are like, they'll email me two weeks later, okay, I've been doing this, they still don't want to eat the raw food, and this isn't working, and that's not this has made them itchy. They're really, you know, it's it's really hard to kind of coach them through because they feel like they're failing. And it's it's hard to get people to buy into that process and convince them like these are things that you want to be seeing. Their body is finally able to process things in the right way. So it's really challenging when everyone's used to getting immediate fixes by going to the bed, quote unquote fixes because it's not fixing anything. Right, right. Yep. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

I I think on the whole, though, I think there's loads of people who want this information. There's loads of people who are right now wondering where would I start? You know, where would I go? How do I, you know, how do I help my dog live a more natural life and avoid health problems or deal with health problems that they have. And so I think it's amazing that there are, you know, lots of people out there like you who are willing to spend the time with somebody on the phone, you know, give them that hand, give them that place to get started. Yeah. Because that's hugely valuable. Like my favorite thing is when I have clients come back in and they're like, I was talking to somebody at the store and blah, blah, blah. And I I talked to them about raw feeding. Is that okay?

SPEAKER_02 37:51

I'm like, that's amazing. Yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

You know, when you're sitting talking to strangers at the bar and you're like, hey, you know, this is what I do for my dog. I kind of, I wonder if this happens to you. I find that anywhere I go, uh-huh, it sometimes it makes me nervous to go out in public because it seems like within five minutes, the people at the table next to me will start talking dogs. And then it very rapidly turns into this, yeah. You know, Rufus has been having some diarrhea, and I took him to the vet, but it didn't really help. And then the other person will say, Well, you know, you got to feed that royal Canaan food, that'll turn him around. And then you feel this tingle, you're like, I have to interject, like I have to say.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Exactly. Yeah, it's like duct tape, duct tape. Oh, I know. My husband will change. Yeah. My husband, I can feel him cringing and people start talking about their dogs and like change the subject.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

Oh, he's gonna start it.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Yeah, not everyone wants to hear it. They really don't. It's not, it's a hard topic to just give go over in five minutes at a restaurant or something.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

But yeah, I definitely I think I think what's important for people to know, and and we we've said it so many times that we will keep saying it because again, this is another uphill battle or trying to kind of fight with with perspectives. People are used to you, they're used to microwave solutions and they don't see that what you just saw that you thought healed your dog actually just suppressed whatever the problem was. Shut the signal off. That's all that happened. But you're like, well, the thing went away, so they're fine. It's like, nope, it went under. It's going to come back, it's gonna rage, it's gonna do something else. Um, and so what people are seeing, you know, in the conventional world as healing is most of the time, if not always, suppressing and then either gonna show up again as the same thing, worse, or in in something else, because you just shut that off. And so, you know, I think that's a perspective that needs to change. Realize that you're realizing it's not healing, it's actually suppressing, you know. But then the other part of it is it's like you have to think about, you know, especially if it's an older dog, like even if it's a dog that's one. Okay, even if it's a dog that's one, you've spent a whole year vaccinating it, putting kibble into it, putting chemicals on top of it, having it walk through treated grass. There has been toxins pushed in this animal for a year. You have to give them resources to be able to detoxify all of that. That is a process that is going to take time. So, again, I think it's it's shut off that idea that healing is a microwave solution. It's not. The body was not designed to do that. However, the better that you give the body what it needs, the better you support the system, the better you, you know, keep the toxic load out, the quicker they will respond in those situations. But when you're when you're transitioning, when you're coming from that place, put your patient's hat on because this is not going to be overnight. I will say I did have the same experience though, Brie, that you did with Piper, the dog that I learned on. She was my first girl in my breeding program, and she was traditionally raised until she was two and a half, and then um I met Dr. Levy and changed everything. But within two weeks after I started feeding her raw, she was different. She was a different dog in two weeks. I could not believe what I was seeing. Um, so I think that does happen, right? Or sometimes we do make a change and it's like sunshine and rainbows, like it really did work quickly. But just understand the more you have done conventionally, the more you have stacked against your dog, and the more like bricks of the wall you have to tear down, like you have to tear all of it down in their system and give them what they need to then rebuild the wall in the right way. So it's it's it's it's really again, it's it's that perspective shift that's the more we say things like this, right? And the more we those of us that have come from that place can speak truth about the expectation, setting that expectation that it's going to take time, have patience. Healing should not be overnight, um, especially when you're coming from, you know, such a place um where so much damage has been done. And the more you learn, the more real, you more you realize how much damage it is. I think that's part of it too. That's why we say educating yourself is so important. It just helps you to kind of shift your perspective too.

SPEAKER_03 42:47

Yeah, I would love to ask you about that. So, since you've done such an amazing job of educating yourself and you've become a certified animal natural health coach, yeah. So, what was that process? Like, how did you come across that?

SPEAKER_00 43:04

So I heard about it on, I think I was listening to Angela Artolino's podcast, the Your Natural Dog podcast, the CBD Dog Health. And she interviewed Jessica Fisher, who she has a podcast as well, the pet parenting reset. And she actually ended up being my mentor in that program. She talked about Dr. Ruth Roberts, who is an integrative veterinarian. She talked about that program. And I was at this crossroads where I really wanted to start a community to talk about holistic dog health. But I also had imposter syndrome where I'm like, I know all of these things, and it's common basic knowledge that everyone can access. And I shouldn't have to have a medical degree to talk about this, but I felt like I did need some kind of solid leg to stand on, some kind of formal education. So I went through that program. It was expensive, and I will honestly say that I probably learned a lot more from listening to experts on podcasts and taking other. Side courses and reading research. And I learned far more from that. But it did give me a lot more confidence in pursuing working one-on-one with people because I love talking about this stuff. So I knew that I ultimately wanted the opportunity to get on the phone or get on Zoom to help people. And where I like to focus, a lot of the coaches in her program will dive deeper into more serious issues and work alongside vets, but I like to focus on just that like getting people started, like helping them with that overwhelm, helping walk through the basics, helping them navigate that stuff first. And occasionally I'll offer some support for more serious issues. I mean, I've had a couple dogs recently that are going through heartworm treatment. And I'm like, I'm not going to touch that. If you want to talk about holistic or homeopathic heartworm treatments, you need to work with a holistic or homeopathic vet. Um, so so that's what I feel comfortable doing is have helping people navigate the basics. Although I want to tell them what I would do in their shoes, it's like I kind of stay away from that because I'm not a licensed vet and I don't want to cross any lines. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

I I think you know, there's only so many ways that this knowledge is going to get out. And if veterinarians aren't going to talk about it, somebody has to.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Like I wish I didn't have to. Like I said, I don't make much money. I I work so hard to share all of this, and I wish I didn't have to. I wish that it wasn't a thing. I wish that they were doing their job and educating, but they just they weren't trained that way. I don't see it changing. So, what kind of dog do you have now? A golden retriever, another golden, which was a bold choice considering what I went through. I'm well aware that. Oh, and that leads us to the next topic I wanted to touch on is the I did everything right, but my dog still got cancer. My dog still had kidney disease, and my that crowd. There's a lot of that, a lot of comments like that I get on social media. And I think it comes from a place of still that mindset of I followed a checklist, I followed the holistic check checklist, I fed raw, I did, I didn't vaccinate, I just did the puppy vaccines, just won rabies. I, you know, fed raw food, I did all the things, and my dog still got sick. And those those comments and those messages break my heart, but then it also is like, oh, you're discouraging others from wanting to at least stack the odds in your dog's favor. Like we can't control everything. Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

There, I think, I mean, there's a reason why they find flame retardant chemicals in wildlife. You know, these things are everywhere. I know. There's chemtrails, there's our pet's background, their genetic makeup, hereditary influences. I mean, I could definitely identify with that. One of our favorite dogs was um our older Dutch Shepherd, who I got when he was about a year old from uh one of my clients. And he'd been dumped on her by the local police. He was picked up in a raid on a meth house when he was about a year old. And so he wasn't neutered, so I didn't neuter him, and I didn't know if he'd had any vaccines, but I didn't vaccinate him. Um, and he ended up developing osteosarcoma when he was 10. But he was one of the dogs that we had during the whole flea madness when we ended up resorting to chemicals. So even though he was raw-fed the whole time I had him, I do kind of wonder like, did I contribute to that? Probably in some way, right? So uh it is tough, and I think you know, I I have people come in with dogs, and they're, you know, they're like, my last lab never had any of these problems, and he lived to be 15, and I've had him kibble his whole life. That was a different world. That was 30 generations of dogs ago.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

So it we do, I think, have more challenges because nowadays, for example, if you have a dog with seizures, now you have to think, where's the smart meter? Where's my wireless router? Where's the nearest cell phone tower?

SPEAKER_04 47:57

Yeah. Is my neighbor spraying their lawn? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

Yeah.

unknown 48:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:02

And so there's so many things.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

Yeah. Yeah. And so we we can't control everything. We're trying to sway the odds in our favor. So we might get our dog from a holistic breeder, hoping to start with a cleaner slate. I mean, that's why I got a puppy in uh in the fall. Did I need another dog? No. But I had a new client who came in with lit two litters. She had seven Jack Russell and nine Australian Shepherds.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:34

Die Hard anti-vaxxer. They were fed kip fed kibble, but some kefir, some eggs, some this, some that. And I I jumped at the chance. I was like, I want one of those Australian Shepherd puppies. So, you know, we but I think you know, we we keep kind of trying to start over, like, and that's unfortunately to some extent kind of how we learn. And then you're like, okay, with the next dog, I'm definitely not doing that.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

Well, so I think like the biggest, like the biggest punchline is we don't control the universe. Like there's there's just you you can only control so much, and we unfortunately live in a world that is is after us in a way, like there's chemicals in everything, on everything being sprayed in the air. Like you can't escape it. I wish we could just walk around and you know, in a bubble. Um, you can't escape it. And then even if you have the privilege of really controlling a tremendous amount about your environment and you live in a very clean, stress-free, toxin-free, all the things, there's genetic baggage that comes with these animals that is, you know, at some point, even if you get a third or fourth generationally naturally reared puppy, there's genetic baggage that's going to be detoxed somewhere along the line, and it's gonna happen at some point, right? And and and this is something that I will just be very transparent about recently that happened to me. I mean, when we say we are always learning, we are always learning. You don't know what you don't know. And uh the the dog, I am down to one dog, her name is Gemma. I raised her, she was second generation naturally reared. I I did everything right. Okay, I raised this puppy from her mama and I I waited to she she had dog reactivity issues, and so I made the decision in trying to manage this that I am gonna do a full spay. Okay, this is not something from a holistic perspective that I would ever really recommend, but I was dealing with uh, is this dog gonna survive? Like I can't, right? This was kind of in my head a life or death. And I'm like, if if it means that she may not live a couple years extra, yeah, but but we can live peacefully, this is a quality of life issue. I did a full spay on her, and I am now just learning the depth of hormone health and what that does. And I I probably didn't do myself any favors. I did not do her any favors. It does not improve aggressive behavior, if anything, it's the opposite. It can lower their drive, yeah, it can make them, it gives they have less energy. So, all that being said, you know, I just did that a year and a half ago. I just fully spated her a year and a half ago, and I just am now learning what I've potentially caused in this everything done right dog. I waited till she was sexually mature. I I did all of what I knew at the time was correct, and now I'm learning that was a bad idea. And so I have to do damage control and I have to now she's chronically itchy, she has inflammation. Like that's my fault. But I didn't know what I didn't know, right? And so now I'm gonna use my tools, I'm gonna use my ability to educate myself. I thank goodness I have Dr. Levy that I can run by some of these things with, but we don't know what we don't know. And so we can think we're doing everything right, we can think we've avoided all the bad things, we can think a lot of things. That doesn't necessarily mean that we did. But the but but what's important to realize is that it doesn't mean that all of that work was for nothing. It doesn't mean that all of my effort in feeding raw was for nothing. They're gonna thrive, be more resilient, um, be more resistant to disease far more than they would have been. I mean, how would it have been if you would have fed them kibble? Right? Like what if you would have done the other things? Probably would have been even worse than what it was. So um, you know, I understand that feeling of I think people can walk into this approach and think that they're creating a bulletproof animal. And I am guilty for the first chunk of my breeding years that I kind of communicated that to my puppy families because I believed that. Yeah, I thought I am doing everything right, I got these puppies taken care of, they're you know, little bulletproof, you know, amazing um puppies, and you know, I'm reducing the risk for all these things, just keep doing what I'm doing. That's a myth. There is nothing that is a hundred percent. Nothing is a hundred percent. But I'll tell you, in our experience, in all the years that we've been doing different things with animals, is your best shot? It's your best shot for them.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

Yeah, it doesn't mean don't try your absolute best for sure. I'm so glad you're honest about all that. I mean, I was the same way too. I mean, I think of one specific example where I've even posted in the last year about how raw fed healthy dogs don't attract fleas. I'm like, my dog is the example, like no toxins, raw fed, he still has fleas. Like it's you know, I mean, I'm learning too every single day. And I think that's the beauty about the people with mindsets like ours is we could admit that we learn, we grow and change, where a lot of our conventional vets, not all of them, are just refuse to take any accountability for anything, refuse to grow and change. So yeah, I'm with you on that. And I'm sorry that happened.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

That's such a yeah, right. But isn't isn't that interesting, though? It's like, um, you know, not that I want to get all spiritual, but it's kind of like like the flea issue, that's something that you're gonna work away at, work away at, work away at. And then, like, you here's you know how I found flea busters? Because we had done everything, we did all the natural crap, which didn't work, we did chemicals, which didn't work, and then finally I went back to Dr. Pitcairn's book, I think like the 2006 edition. And I was like, okay, what does he have in here? And I that's how I learned about flea busters. And so, um, and so it's like same thing with like Gemma's detoxy symptoms. Like, you're gonna be such a pro about this, right? It's like these these burdens that we have to work our way through and that frustrate us. I mean, we had like, I think the flea thing went on for a year and a half. Oh my gosh. Oh, it was like at one point we kind of thought we had it beat, and then they were like, We're back. Oh my gosh. And it so really, like now I feel like okay, I I sort of have a handle on it. But I still run into clients who, like I said, who are like, oh, we tried the flea busters, it didn't work. So it might not be the right answer for everybody, but that's gonna be true of everything, and so that's why I think I mean that's one thing that that I love about veterinary medicine is that there's constantly new things to see, new things to deal with. We're all constantly learning from each other. And so it may be frustrating for pet parents who are kind of looking at the natural lifestyle and like this is also not a one and done. Feed the food, reap the rewards, right?

SPEAKER_02 56:30

I mean, but you do to some extent, yeah. There's just a lot of challenges out there.

SPEAKER_04 56:35

So I think it does take, um, but again, it's it you have to lay down your fear, your anxiety to be able to do this, but it takes humility to be able to be in this space, and um, nobody's perfect and nobody's trying to say they are, and there is not, you know, there's not one right perfect way to do everything. But those of us that have these trials put before us, that you have to walk through and you have to sludge through it, you have to figure it out. Um, it's it's through those things that we can help people better. And I know, um Brie, that you you do that, and and I certainly try and do that. And I and I am gonna know, I like I didn't even think about all of the repro I just removed her entire endocrine system. Like, what was I think, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 57:21

Parts of it. Well, but your intentions were so good. You're like, this is for her quality of life. And you're gonna be able to do that. And she's still alive. Yeah, she is still alive, and you're yeah, you're learning so much from it, and you're gonna help so many other dog parents because yeah, that is another common question I get anytime I post about the dangers of spay and neuter, people are always like, Well, what can I do? What can I do? Because obviously, most everybody's dogs are spayed and neutered because that's just the norm, that's what we do. So that's gonna be such a valuable resource that's gonna do really well. I've seen that there's have you guys seen this company that has a chew, like a multivitamin type chew for spay and neuter support? And I've had people ask me about it. I'm like, guys, please take that$50,$60 and spend it on food, you know, like whole food stuff. Like you're gonna have so much more, it's gonna move the needle so much more than this weird little mystery, chew. So there's there's there's um people know that there's a need for that information and that support because I think the the the data, the peer-reviewed studies are just gonna keep coming out. I think they're gradually releasing information about the downsides to span neuter just so people aren't completely panicked. Yeah. Well, Brie, where can people find you? You can find me on Instagram at Tailswell Health. I don't do any other socials because it's too much for me to handle. And I have a podcast now called Love Your Dogs that um it's just me, but we'll be having some guests soon because we've talked about this. We can talk so much online, but it's it's so much better to talk this way and get a full conversation where we can explore all the different angles and think it's so much more meaningful than and sharing in Instagram stories.

SPEAKER_04 59:08

So yeah, it's it's really hard. We you know, we kind of have kind of gotten to that place too, where it's it's I mean, you do a great job of getting a lot of information into an Instagram post. I you blow me away when I look at yourself. It takes too much. You are working so hard over there. I know what that takes. Um, and it is just easier to really get quality education through a little bit longer content. And it doesn't need to be three hours, but to get it down to three minutes, it is a challenge. And so that's why I was so excited to have you on. And I love that you're doing your podcast because that just that time constraint is removed. And I feel like we can do a better job as educators without that time constraint. Um, but I this has been so great. Thank you for talking about all these different topics. I mean, we covered a lot of stuff. We did kind of go all over the place, but I I like it though, because I think these are some of the real, real challenges that um kind of are at the kind of at the beginning of this journey for people. And um, we just we want to bring as many people um over to this approach as possible. It's not for everyone. And we understand it's not for everyone. Don't try and put yourself fit yourself in a box that you don't fit in. If this is too much, if it's too hard, if your anxiety is too high, may not be for you. And it is what it is. It is what it is. But for those that we can help dissolve the fear, encourage, empower, bring knowledge, you know, create communities so people don't feel like they're alone. They don't feel like they have to face pressure alone. Um, all of those things, that's what we're all here trying to do. And that's why I really wanted to have you on. So thank you, Brie, for coming on. And I love everything that you do. And I'm so congratulations on the new podcast. It's awesome. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. This is great. See you next time on the Crunchy Carnivore podcast, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us. Our goal is always to encourage others to seek out the holistic approach by way of education and empowerment. You can check out our online resources at wellspringha.com. You can follow us on our YouTube channel, Wellspring Holistic Animal Academy, and you can also find us on Instagram at Wellspring underscore HAA. We hope that this has been helpful and that you continue with us on your journey to holistic health for your pets. As always, we're here to be unapologetically all natural.