Your Dog Doesn't Need Anxiety Drugs (They Need This Instead)

Are you struggling with your dog's behavioral issues and wondering if medication is the only answer? In this episode of The Crunchy Carnivore Podcast, we dive deep into the common veterinary approach of prescribing drugs like Prozac, Paxil, Trazodone, and Gabapentin for pet behavior modification.

But is medicating your furry friend always the best solution? Join us as we explore the efficacy of these pharmaceuticals and discuss potential holistic alternatives that could address the root cause of your dog's anxiety or other behavioral challenges. Discover what dog anxiety really looks like, possible root causes, and the options that are available beyond conventional drug treatments.  Empower yourself to make informed decisions for your pet's well-being.

🐾 What are the common drugs prescribed for dog behavior?
🐾 What's the difference between normal dog behavior and anxious behavior.
🐾 Exploring holistic and natural alternatives to dog behavior medication.
🐾 Lifestyle choices and natural medicine options to help promote calm.

Don't miss this crucial discussion for every dog owner looking for a balanced approach to pet behavioral health!

#DogBehavior #PetHealth #HolisticPetCare #DogTraining #DogAnxiety #PetMedication #TheCrunchyCarnivorePodcast #WellspringHolisticAnimalAcademy

👉🏼 RESOURCES 👈🏼

Wellspring's NR Puppy Bundle- Everything you need from searching for the perfect puppy to all of the foundational parts of raising a puppy the way nature intended.


Looking for a grounding mat?  Find one at earthing.com


Sound therapeutics for all types of issues Zoundz for Pets


Sound proof puppy training-  Pupschool App


Online training and enrichment by Susan Garrett- Crate Games

🌿 SUPPLEMENTS 🌿

CBD that really works!  Check out CBD Dog Health


Discover the power of mushrooms - MycoDog


Bring immediate calm and relief from stress- Bach's Rescue Remedy

Herbal anxiety tincture -Tranquil Times

Canine calming chews- July 3rd by Herbsmith


📕 BOOKS 📕

Enrichment Games for High Energy Dogs by Barbara Buchmayer


Meet Your Dog: The Game-Changing Guide to Understanding Your Dog's Behavior by Kim Brophey

The Way of Life Method: How to Heal Your Relationship with Your Dog and Raise a Sound, Strong, and Spirited Companion by Souha Ezzedeen


CANINE ENRICHMENT: THE BOOK YOUR DOG NEEDS YOU TO READ 2ND EDITION by Shay Kelly


Canine Body Language: A Photographic Guide: Interpreting the Native Language of the Domestic Dog by Brenda Aloff

💭Curious about the holistic approach to animal care?  Get Wellspring's free Intro Guide!


👐 Ready to go all in?!  We have everything you need to learn the foundational pieces to raise your animal naturally.  Get our "Foundations Bundle" to take out all of the guesswork and much of the overwhelm🌿

Don't miss future episodes!

Make sure to follow to catch more insight into the holistic approach for animals in an inviting, honest, and realistic way, right here on The Crunchy Carnivore Podcast.

Connect with Dr Levy & Melissa

Instagram |  wellspring_haa

YouTube | Wellspring Holistic Animal Academy - YouTube

Website | wellspringhaa.com

Email | wellspringhaa@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Yeah, and kind of similar to humans, as soon as you say, you know, I think or I feel, the answer is Prozac or Paxol or Trazodone or Gemapentin or and that is um I guess the the medical profession's chosen way of modifying behavior.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Welcome to another episode of the Crunchy Carnivore Podcast. Uh I'm Melissa Weidenhammer and I'm here with Dr. Jessica Levy. And we wanted to dive into a topic uh on this episode that is um brought up to um at least the two of us very, very often. Um it is probably second only to allergies. Allergies is probably the number one thing that we get asked about. Um, and that is anxiety. Dogs with anxiety, it has become um, oh my gosh, Dr. Levy, how often do you see dogs that have been prescribed with meds for anxiety?

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Pretty much every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Like how do you could you put a percentage to like how many dogs you think are on?

SPEAKER_02 1:08

I don't know. Because, you know, I'm seeing a subset of the population. Sure. A lot of them, like almost everybody's on gabapentin at least.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

So they're just, I mean, it's just this ramp, like I feel like it's over-diagnosed, kind of like ADHD with kids. Like it's like Probably I mean, it is just hand. The diagnosis is handed out really fast.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

And kind of similar to humans, as soon as you say, you know, I think or I feel, the answer is Prozac or Paxol or Trazodone or Gabipentin, or um, and that is um, I guess, the the medical profession's chosen way of modifying behavior. You know, that's true. Better living through chemistry. That that's true. Well, yeah. Yeah, and but but it's very common in dogs. And so then the question is, you know, is is the dog actually anxious or is the dog just perceived as being anxious?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Right, exactly. And so, you know, I think uh the the the question that people come to the table with, which I understand why they're asking it, but it's the wrong question, which is what can I give my dog for anxiety? Um, and so I think where we want to start with this topic is we're gonna start by talking about what is what should be expected as dog behavior, because I think you and I both believe that a lot of things are perceived as dogs being high anxiety when it's actually just dog behavior. Right. Um, and so let's talk about that a little bit. Um, and then maybe, you know, there's certainly the conversation about how much is breed a factor in that behavior. And so, what are some things that you have commonly maybe heard of from clients where they talk about a behavior that caused them to put their dog on anxiety meds, and you're like, that's actually just dog behavior, not anxiety.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Oh, pretty much anything. I mean, a lot of it is like dogs barking at things outside. You know, dogs bark at noises, they bark at leaves. Um and you know, a lot of this is just depending on the breed. That's what a lot of dogs were bred for. That's part of their general why humans kept them around, is because they're good watchers, they're good sentinels. They will let you know. Hello, the neighbors have left their home. You obviously need to know this. Hello, the neighbors have returned home. Leaves are blowing, there's a bird, uh, squirrels are in the yard. And all these things, it is their job to tell you about. Uh, particularly some of the dogs that were bred to go out and kill those things. They really want to tell you about them. Let me out, let me out, let me out. Yeah. And so that is kind of uh common, you know. I mean, I have this experience at my house. Um, when, you know, somebody, God forbid, rings the doorbell or knocks on the door, there's a big hullabaloo because that is the dog's job to tell you somebody is now at the door.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Mine will even, I mean, it's you know, they see, you know, we have we live kind of um out on some acreage, and so when they see turkeys walking through our yard, oh my gosh, sound the alarm. Deer, sound the alarm, doesn't matter. You know, it'll even be they'll see the neighbors in their yard. Yes. Oh, heaven forbid. Right, the neighbors. That they that they come out, but it's it's they're they feel like they're doing their job. They are telling me. And you know, it's really interesting when that happens. I think you've had this experience too, where rather than yelling at them, which I still have my moments where I'm dumb and I'm like, knock it off, you know, stupid, because that doesn't help anything. But when I literally am like, Jem, thank you. Good job, you know, good job. And it is amazing how quickly she can stop. I mean, sometimes if it's really exciting, I can't, that doesn't work. Well, but when they all get going and you can't hear yourself over the door, they're not gonna hear you either. Yeah. So there are some times that where things so right, but that's but that's not that's not anxiety.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

You've also brought up digging, which is very normal dog behavior, but people will be like, oh my gosh, they can't stop digging, they're anxious. No dogs are meant to dig.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Or if you think about um the herding breeds and uh your kids have friends over and they're all kind of running around and there's a lot of movement, that dog is gonna be in a state of kind of vigilance because it is their job to group things together. And when things start to wander off, that has to be corrected.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Another one is if your dog follows you from room to room, follows you around the house. Some people will be like, oh, that's separation anxiety, they can't be away from me. Right. And um, my dog is not anxious, but she wants to be wherever I am. And I think most of the time it's because she's bored and she's just like, What are you doing? I want to do something. And so she just, if I leave the room, she wants to come with me, but she's not anxious, but she just wants to be where I am. Or, you know, there's kind of the whole thing where if you you're gonna go into the bathroom, they need to be present. Yeah, and they want to go into the bathroom with you.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Well, I think if you think about a pack of dogs, it's not like each dog has their own den. No, you know, no, and I mean I think go to the den next door tonight.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah, so there's just all these kind of different behaviors that can be very normal dog behaviors, but I think in in a world where people are very quick to humanize dogs, they'll put things on dogs that don't belong on dogs. They're dogs. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

So the influence, the breed influence we talked about a little bit. So the point is that every breed of dog was bred for a purpose. Uh nowadays there's amazing DNA tests, so even if you have a mutt, you can kind of find out what it's mostly made of. And it's worth looking into those breeds. There's a really good book about this called Meet Your Dog by Kim Brophy. And it kind of goes through, she groups them a little differently. It's not necessarily like the AKC groups of like the sporting breeds, the hunting breeds, the whatever. Um, but it's it's interesting to see like what those dogs were bred for so that you have a better idea of what to expect from your dog. I always talk to people about the difference between, you know, the Labrador Retriever is like kind of like the everybody's friend dog. That's the dog who is your companion, right? You take the dog out hunting, you do your thing, you shoot the bird, the dog will go and get the bird and bring it back to you. Um, as opposed to a more independent actor like the Jack Russell Terrier. What do you do with your terrier? You literally take him down to the barn in the morning and you let turn them loose. You are not gonna help them figure out a better way to kill rats. They don't need you. They don't need your supervision. They know how to do their job. They were born that way. And so they're not looking to you saying, Yes, master, what would you like me to do? Right. They know what they're gonna do. Uh and so you have some differences in breeds like that where some are more um, I think it's called biddable. Some are more biddable than others and some are not. Um, so it's worth kind of knowing about that before you get a dog. And then um before we started filming, we were also talking about, you know, where you get your dog from. So I have found uh I have sometimes had clients who have gone to dog shows and they kind of you know looked at all the different breeds of dogs, and then they've talked to all the different dog breeders, and what they found was that uniformly every breeder was pretty much like, oh my gosh, this is a great family dog. So much so that they ended up buying an Akita, which is not a great family dog. No, and so so then, you know, where you get are are you gonna get honest information about the kind of dog that you're interested in and whether that would be a good match for your family. And that's where I think holistic breeders or preservation breeders, uh, you know, people who really want to do right by the breed. So, I mean, because you can kind of talk about that, like kind of questions that you've gotten that may have made you say, this might not be the breed for you.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah, I usually um so for people who are not familiar, I bred for for about seven years um holistically, and my breed was a bully breed, a little bit more of a rare bully breed. Um, it's basically the original version recreation of the um old English Bulldog. Um, and I would get people calling me because when you look them up online, it's basically communicated as a healthy bulldog. That's what people see. Right, like a healthy English Bulldog. Right. They just see healthy bulldog and they think it's like a just a healthier version of a standard English bulldog. And that is not at all what they are. If you look at the classification, they're a working breed. Um, and so I would get people calling me, they, you know, they lost dogs to cancer, whatever else. And so not only did I do a healthy version of a bulldog, I did it all holistically. And so I had people really interested in for that reason because they'd had tragedies in the past. They're like, I don't want to have that again. So I want a healthy dog. I want a dog that'll live longer. So I would get those people, and they they were thinking, you know, I they didn't want anything that was too demanding. They didn't want it, you know, they just wanted a healthy bulldog. Um, and so I would have to communicate, these are not easy dogs. Um, they're great dogs, but you have to be a leader, you have to give them structure, you have to understand they can be intense. Um, they they're very athletic, they're about a 50-50. So it's not like you got to run them like a greyhound, but they need that intense play exercise to a degree, and then they'll lay with you on the couch, right? Right. Um, so I did do a fair amount of um, or even, you know, I I had to learn my lesson the hard way. People that had had um the breed that I bred before, and for whatever reason, they got a very low drive male. That's majority of the time, that's not what was produced. That's not the way they're built. And so they were expecting a healthy couch potato. That's not what I had. So that was just kind of some of my experience, and I was very upfront about that because it's I I don't ever, I never wanted there to be frustration or um have a situation where it was the wrong fit. Right. I just didn't. What that was very, very important to me because it's too hard on the family, it's too hard on the dog. And for the most part, um, I think in my entire time doing it, I think we had to re-home one. So yeah, and in general, anxiety is one of those.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

I I don't know if it's really an inherited trait, but it is something that puppies learn very young from their mother. And so when you take home that eight-week-old puppy, it is not a blank slate. It knows a lot of things from its mom. It knows that noises are scary and that men with beards are scary, and that like it's already learned all these things. And so I always kind of felt bad when I um, you know, at previous veterinary clinics when I would have people come in with a female dog and they would say something like, Well, you know, she's pretty anxious and she's not social, so we're just gonna keep her at home and breed her. And that's really like the wrong choice. You're gonna end up with a bunch of anxious puppies that are again going to go to homes. And, you know, we don't all have the luxury of selling our puppies to people who are dog traders, people who are dog experts, people who are dog behaviorists. You know, there's not many of those out there, and so a lot of people who purchase puppies um, you know, might not be aware of what they're getting if they don't know which questions to ask. I had one year where it seemed like every client got the dominant puppy in the litter. And how did that happen? Because they sat down on the floor and the first puppy that came over to them was the one they picked. Well, that's gonna be the dominant puppy in the litter. Uh, and so I I think I think those are like that's my ideal because they're brave, they're not afraid, they're easy to train. But some people don't want that. Some people want the one that's gonna, you know, sit and cuddle in their lap.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

So just to speak on this before we move on to another topic, being, you know, because breathing was my world. Um, I cannot stress enough, you know, you talked about, you know, the the the puppy picks up, you know, leak can leave the leave the mom full of anxiety because of the man with the beard, because of this, because of that. There is a tremendous amount that can be done in the first eight weeks of life as a the breeder to head a lot of that off at the pass if it's done correctly. That is why it is so, so, so important to really research and find a good breeder. We actually made um a full puppy search guide um that walks people through how to research a breed, really find a good breeder and from a holistic perspective, because that was not something that you could find anywhere. You could find how to find an ethical breeder list and that type of thing. But there is everything from the diet that they are fed can promote or reduce anxiety, the surroundings, the environment, you know, is it full of crazy stuff going on? Is it full of chemicals? Is it full of really strong smells, right? All of that kind of stuff. Um, are do they use a program like puppy culture? I know there's a few out there that's just my go-to because that's the one that I use. So I don't mean to leave any good ones out. Um, but puppy culture, I mean, you are socializing in the right social development window and you are giving them experiences and you are setting them up with exercises to um give them reasonable amounts of frustration that they have to work their way through. All of those things done at the right times helps their brain and helps them to regulate. Right. And you are far less likely to end up with an anxiety-riddled adult. Another thing that we'll talk about, even we'll probably come back around to this later, is um is the sounds. I mean, how many dogs are terrified of fireworks? Do you know how much you can do with puppies when they're three, four, five weeks old to desensitize them to fireworks? And we successfully did it. Very rarely did I ever have a puppy family come back to me when they're one, two, three years old and say they're terrified of fireworks. Why? Because we capitalized on all of that in the first eight weeks. So just know that, like, as much as some people really want to do um a rescue, and we're all about that, know how much you can be ahead of the curve if you get a puppy that was raised by a good breeder.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Right. And I think even rescues are kind of starting to clue into this.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

There's there's a handful that I've heard of, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

And I've dealt with I've helped one of them. Yeah, just recently we did temperament testing with the Great Dane rescue that ended up with a litter of puppies. Um, and so that allows you to kind of evaluate the puppy. There's like 10 things on a list that you work through with each puppy, and that kind of allows you to pair the puppy with the right home.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Is right, is that it yes. I mean, it really it's less of a predictability tool. I used to use it as a predictability tool when I was in my earlier years, and then I I had a few experiences where I was like, it's not quite that ironclad. And so you can certainly have puppies test out the way you would expect them to as a breeder. You're observing these puppies and their personalities and their drives. And you're already thinking this is a shy, what this is. Exactly. And there are times where they are spot on with their testing, and then there's other times where they'll surprise the heck out of you, right? And and it's because it's done in a new place with new people, they're out of their element, they're not with their litter mates, there's a lot of factors. We ended up using it more to pair with our observations as a directive on where to start with your training. Like if there's certain um things that they seem more fearful of, you know, there needs to be some confidence building. Is there a really high drive? You're gonna want to really work on impulse control, right? Like there's different things like that. So we we leaned more on our observation over the course of the six to seven weeks to help guide families to the right puppy than in towards the end of my breeding uh years, then we did the temperament testing. In the beginning, I was like, oh, temperament testing, and I took the scores and I paired the families.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

And just over time, that was But I will say, like all along, we still temperament tested every litter. We did, we temp because it's still valuable. Right. It was just the way that we were using it changed. Right. It was not, it ended up being like not the be all and end all, but it was another tool. Yeah, and so I think like the whole point of this is that ask your breeder questions. Do you temperament test your puppies? Are you using puppy culture or a similar program? Uh, because there's so many ways that you can take home a well-socialized, well-rounded, ready-to-learn puppy versus taking home one that has kind of just been left to its own devices and now it's a little anxious ball of fluff.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

So I feel like that was just kind of where we wanted to start. There are kind of foundational factors that you want to look at and and really determine, you know, does my dog actually even have anxiety, or is this just kind of normal dog behavior? And then realizing that uh, you know, if you are getting a puppy, you can really do yourself and the puppy a lot of favors, depending on where you're getting that puppy from, for the potential really reducing their risk for anxiety as an adult. Um, I think the next thing that we really want to address is a lot of the factors that can contribute if your dog does have anxiety. This is kind of the list of things that maybe people don't always think about that is they really do make a big difference and can absolutely promote um anxiety in dogs. So the first thing that is kind of it's kind of an unseen and visible thing, I think a lot of people don't think about it, is EMFs. So EMFs are really anything, there's so many electronic devices that emit EMFs, and they, I mean, if you do just a fraction of a search about damaging effects of EMFs, I mean, it is a lot. It is a lot. It really does. And there's so many different things that we're literally just like surrounded by them. So everything from your Wi-Fi router to your microwave to your laptop to your smart meter. Yeah, your phones. I mean, it's just there's so many things that are just pouring these things out.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Yeah, which is also helpful to think about. Like when you bring your dog home, where is it going to sleep? Where's the dog bed gonna be? Where's the dog crate gonna be? And what are those things close to? Uh, where is the wireless router? Can you shut it off at night? Where is which wall is the smart meter on? Do you shut your computers down at night or not? Or, you know, things like that, because those can all contribute to a dog feeling unsettled, feeling jittery.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

And I do know that there are um some EF EMF protection um devices that you can put on your laptop, on your phone. I actually have an EMF protector um case on my phone so that when I put it up to my head, I'm not having things pour in. And you can get things for all sorts of different devices. And so that might be something that um, you know, you could do too if if you live in a small space or an apartment and you just kind of can't get your dog away from your router or something like that. You can certainly put something on there to help limit the amount that is coming out. Um, so that's just one thing to think about that it's it's kind of easy to not think about that because it's just not a scene, it's not seen. It's just you kind of have to know about it.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Um yeah, I I typically think about the effects of food. And so this is where kibble becomes a bigger problem. All the carbs in kibble and any kind of kibble, the most expensive kibble on the planet, is still at least 50% carbohydrate. Those carbs translate to sugar. You cannot take a dog who is hopped up on sugar and get frustrated with it and say, Why aren't you listening to me? Right? Just the same way that you don't pump your kid up on sugar and then expect them to sit still for an hour. Um, and so that's where I think, and I have seen this in my practice, that switching to a raw diet is very calming. Once you get the sugar out, it may take several months. Take out the sugar, add some fat to their diet. Most dog foods, certainly dry dog foods, but even the pre-mixed raw pet foods, the 80, 10, 10 blends, uh, are it really don't have enough fat in them. And fat is what feeds the brain, covers the nerves, settles the nervous system. Uh, and so you want your dog to have a fair amount of fat in the diet. They're designed to eat a high protein, high fat diet, especially for a puppy. That's what's going to. Enable them to learn really well. And in an older dog, it protects them from cognitive decline. So I think of that like purposely adding fat to our dog's diet. And that I think is also something that we've discussed on other Yeah, fat comes up, comes up quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

It's um it's really just so much more um important than I think people think it is. And I think people are have been made afraid of it because they think it's gonna make their dog fat.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Right. And I still I still see that. I was just reading a book recently and it was like, fat's so important, but don't feed it to your fat dog. Fat does not make you fat. Um, but I think like as far as reducing anxiety in our dogs, getting the sugar out of their diet, read those ingredients on the treats. There are there's such garbage out there. Um learn to identify other forms of sugar: maltodextrin, dextrose, molasses, cane sugar. Your dog does not need these.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

So the next thing that's gonna contribute um massively to anxiety is um chemicals, uh, vaccines, flea and tick medications, you know, these there's neurotoxins in this, it affects the brain. Not to mention, you know, it certainly affects the nervous system, it affects the gut, microbiome. Um and so, you know, if you've got heavy chemicals happening or or you know, a lot of vaccines or something like that, you're absolutely gonna set them up to be um more prone to have anxiety.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

And even something like um, it turns out that anxiety is one of the main symptoms of mold toxicity in humans. So I've had a fair number of clients who have dealt with that come in and tell me that like that was their first symptom was this anxiety that was kind of growing and out of control. And our dogs are susceptible to that as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Um, you know, this is this should this should be kind of a no-brainer, but you know, we're gonna say it anyway. If there is a stressful home life, if if the home in and of itself carries with it a lot of stress, a lot of stimulation, um, your your dog is gonna pick up on that. They're very, they're like sponges that way. And so if there's a lot going on in the home, um, that is absolutely gonna be reflected on with your dog. If you're if you have a lot of anxiety and that is something that you battle, you better believe that's gonna affect your dog.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Right. And I think too, like some dogs who are quite stressed, um, it could be PTSD from the vet, that really does a number on dogs. Some dogs are permanently made anxious by veterinary experiences. So some of that, and then if you're if you live someplace that's noisy with traffic or whatever, or if the dog it just kind of came out of the womb with anxiety and learned it at a very young age, some of these dogs are not sleeping well. And basically, if you're not getting whatever it is, the REM sleep or whatever, the deep sleep that you need to kind of recharge your brain. So some of the dogs feel like we do when we have insomnia. Makes you a little bit, a little bit on edge.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

A little on edge. Yeah, a little out of control. Um, another thing that I think people don't really think about is lack of training um or management. This is something that um I've encountered uh when people bring to me that they're having issues with their dog, um, and I'll start asking questions. You know, are they crate trained? What kind of a, you know, crate schedule do you have, or where are they when you're doing this? And and like there's nothing. There's no, there's no structure, there's no management, they're allowed on furniture, they're allowed on beds, and their dogs are like freaking out. And they they don't do well with no structure, they don't do well with no boundaries. Um, and this is also how you end up with really unfortunate situations like resource guarding over sitting on the couch, or you know, I mean, I've seen it get really bad where, you know, like the husband isn't even allowed to get in the bed because the dog prefers the the the wife, and they're like, no, you don't get to come in the bed. I mean, this is extreme, but these are the things where it's like you need to kind of have places for the dog, you need to have a structure, you need to not be afraid to use things like a crate. These are these are good things, um, and they they should be instilled from the time that they're puppies. Um, that is something that I really I mean, I hammered that home. Uh we made all sorts of content on social media after for when our puppies would go home for our families. Use the crate, get them to love the crate. We would start them before they left. We would feed them raw, meaty bones in the crate. They love the crate. They like the crate. It's their safe place, it's their den. They can get away from things, whatever else. It's it's it's uh you're doing them a favor by having that in place for them.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

And generally, I think having limits. And so um, sometimes you need to leave a leash on your dog in the house so that you can reach for the end of the leash and not reach for the dog. Some things are better modified with treats and kind of making friends with your dog again. And sometimes you need to take control. So, for example, I had a client who came in with a dog because of the dog's anxiety, and the story started with well, Snoopy was lying on his chair and I reached for him to pet him and he bit me. So, right there, there's like 15 red flags in that section. Right, right, right. Yeah, Snoopy should not have his chair, and Snoopy should not be on the chair if Snoopy can't behave. Uh, and so you're not you're not harming your dog by setting limits. Dogs are designed to live in the pack structure. Not every dog would be head of the pack. And so um, the reason that we have dogs as pets, right? These are powerful predators. Um yesterday at work, we were looking up all the different sizes of mastiffs. Oh. Because one of my clients got a couple of Tibetan Mastiff puppies. So we were looking to see like which is the smallest mastiff, which is the biggest mastiff. Um, I mean, some of these dogs weigh up to like 170 pounds. Oh goodness. And of course, that dog can kill you in a heartbeat. Right. So, what allows us to have dogs as pets? I think it's because 99.9% of dogs don't want to be the one in charge. They're like, please, please take this off my table, off my plate. You know, set some limits, you set the rules, you take care of disturbances, like you be the one who's alert because I need to relax a little bit. And so, um, uh, and you know, and honestly, like the 0.1% of dogs who don't tolerate that and who are adamant that they will be the one in charge, those are the dogs who get euthanized. Because it's very hard for humans to live with dogs that want to be the ones in control.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Yeah, so I mean, it took me a little while to, you know, into my you know journey with my breed, because they are a strong, they're a strong-willed dog, a breed. And so, and they and they it's like they want you to be the leader, but if you're not gonna step up and do it, oh, they'll do it. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Um, and so but that's the thing too, because you said something to uh about this to me a while ago. The bully breeds were bred for bull baiting. Right. Imagine the kind of nerve that takes. These dogs are not afraid of things, they have nerves of steel. Think about dogs that were bred like Rhodesian ridgebacks were bred to hunt lions. That dog is not gonna be afraid of a whole lot of things. And it it has to have that kind of nervy temperament to be able to look at a lion and think, I want to take it. I'll take it, I'll take it. I wouldn't do it, I would be running the other way. Yeah, and so like that kind of dog is bred to have a certain kind of attitude. And at the same time, when you have breeds who are not allowed to engage, not necessarily in the activities for which they were bred. So you're not bull baiting with your dogs. No, but similar, like that kind of hard play, the way your dogs go after their toys, like they have to have these heavy-duty toys. Um, I brought a toy to training this morning and my duchy destroyed it literally like five minutes. And I was like, and that's why she doesn't have toys.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Well, it took me, I mean, so I understand wanting the dogs on the furniture with you. I understand wanting them to lay on the I understand all of that. It took me having a more intense breed to learn that those are privileges, not rights. Correct. And um, and so if you have a dog that is not going to resource guard, that is still respectful and has good manners, even once you've let them on the couch, that's a different situation. But, you know, I had to learn that these are privileges that I'm allowing you to have. And the minute that you start giving me a problem, the that privilege is gonna go away. Right. Um, and that was for their sake as much as it was ours. So there again, you know, if you can understand that being a leader and having that structure is doing them a favor, even if you don't have an intense breed, you're going to have a much more successful relationship with that dog. And you're probably gonna head things off at the past that might be a problem if you didn't do this.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Yeah, and that really relieves a dog's anxiety. Yes. When they look at you and they're like, okay, you know what's you got it. I don't have to be in charge. They can relax.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

And then just to kind of go back, the this is probably, I think kind of the last thing that we really wanted to make mention as far as causes of anxiety that people maybe don't think about, going back to the breed conversation and what what was your breed designed to do, giving them enrichment and outlets that satisfy that in a certain way, in some way, shape, or form, it does tremendous amounts to balance them out and reduce anxiety. Um, for example, for for mine, I mean, they they were they are a recreation of the bull baiting dog, okay, but you still had a couple of intense breeds go into their DNA to make them. And so there is some similarities in what they do. And so I make it a point to give them things that they can run hard for, give them things that they can, you know, grab onto with their mouth and pull and pull and yank and pull. Um, you know, things, things like that, because they the original version was meant to go after and tear apart a bull, as awful as that is. That's that's what they were meant to do. When I allow and provide that for my dogs, oh uh intense chewing, that's another thing. And once I allow them, you know, if I find things for them to do that, um, the the comb that comes over them, and I don't have anxious dogs, but I I just watch their difference and in kind of how they are when when they're allowed to have those things. So so understanding what your breed was meant for and giving them outlets and making sure they have enrichment is very, very important.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Yeah, and that kind of, like I said, that kind of breed research. So read the AKC or UKC description. Read the book Meet Your Dog by Kim Brophy. Um, it's worth talking to other people who have or have had that breed of dog. I have so many clients who uh got XYZ kind of dog because their boss had one and it was really cute. Or they met one at the park one day. Or uh, like in Fraser, he had a Jack Russell Terrier and it was really cute. Uh, yeah, that that dog was like crazy well trained. When you bring them home as puppies, they're not like that.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

And one thing that, I mean, uh kind of in this same vein, we talked about this back in one of our puppy episodes when people are trying to find the right breed when they're thinking about getting a puppy, is to go on um social media, Facebook or something like that, and find lovers of that breed, community pages on Facebook, and really just take some time and watch what people are saying, common experiences, common problems. You'll start to see behavioral things, you'll start to see common health issues, injuries. You'll really start to get a picture of what it's like to really have one of these dogs from people that that have them. And so that's just a really it's it's because it's easy to go look on on, you know, for a breed standard on something, and a lot of that stuff's gonna say great family dog, like just like what you were saying, that they're not all great family dogs. They're just not. But you know, that's just another good way to really get a more accurate picture of that.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

So let's talk about some solutions then. So then what do we do for these anxious dogs?

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. First thing we're always gonna say is is diet. Uh, there's so much um as far as, I mean, obviously getting all that, you know, sugar basically out that all that starch is is number one. But then you also just have uh the benefit to their gut microbiome balances out their moods incredibly. Um and so that's just it's such a it's such a you gotta check that off the list to really know what you're dealing with, I feel like. True. Diet's probably first.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Um, as far as if you're not already doing a raw diet, you also you also have to give it like give it a good six months to really see the change in your dogs. You can't, like even for ourselves, you can't change your diet for two weeks and then say, well, nothing's happening.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

And we always encourage people, especially if you're just transitioning to raw, to do a gut reset as part of your transition process, which is in our raw feeding guide. Um, balancing that gut is gonna do, is gonna do a lot for for their overall health. So diet is number one. Number two would be exercise.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

Yeah, I mean, our dogs need to get out and move around. That helps everything function better. That's what makes digestion work better. You know, they need to sniff that fresh air and get all the sniffies in. Uh, but they also need to just go for a decent walk or get some sort of decent movement, whether it's fetch or a little agility practice or um, you know, just running around with you or running around with the kids or whatever. They really need to get out there and move in order to do a good brain reset.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

And something that kind of goes in tandem with that, another thing that we were gonna bring up um is getting them in contact with untreated grass, getting them in contact with the ground. Grounding is a very real beneficial practice to do for yourself or for your animals. Um, there is a you know an exchange energetically, and this is scientific, this is not woo-woo. This is literally an energetic exchange between the body and the ground that is just beneficial for everything from inflammation to stress management. It is, it clears your head. It's unbelievable what grounding can do.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

Right, and a lot of it is just the the electrical forces from the earth that our bodies need to feel in order to respond appropriately. Um, and so that that's essentially how that works. In order to diffuse tension, whether it's emotional or electromagnetic, all this stuff that builds up in our dogs, they literally need to go outside and lay on the ground. And obviously, if you're in a townhome complex, if you're in an HOA, if you're in an apartment complex, they need to be on untreated soil or grass.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Now, if you do have a challenge where it's it's it's really difficult to find a spot that isn't treated, you know, it takes a little effort to get there or something else. There are things like grounding mats, which um are wonderful options. Um, I get mine from earthing.com. I use them for myself. I'll if my girls are are sick or having a problem, or maybe it's the winter and I can't get them outside, they literally can lay right on the mat. They're washable, they're great, they're not that expensive. Um, so we'll link that website down below. So grounding mats are an awesome option if you do live in a more um in a situation where it's a little more difficult to actually get them to that untreated ground. It's not as good. I'm not trying to say that grounding mats are as good, but it's definitely um beneficial. I do notice them. There are so many different options now because there's just really people are noticing the benefits.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

But but I think that's where too. If you're getting your dogs outside, some of my clients are very worried about their dogs, I don't know, getting some infection from dirt or some dogs might get dirty. They need to not wear boots. Yeah, don't cover their feet. Yeah, yeah. Very important. Um, and then when it comes to um, you know, trading, enrichment, there's a tons of resources. There's tons of um groups that get together, whether it's hiking groups or uh one of my clients who's on the West Coast told me about some like, oh, it was some brave dog thing where you were matched up with people from all over the country, um, but you got to like participate in exercises with your dogs that everybody got points and stuff like that. Oh, that's super fun. Yeah, so there's there's tons of activities out there. There's a lot of places that where you can go to trade. There's a lot of places where you can just take your dog on a walk in the woods. Um, and so that it's important to kind of schedule that in so that your dog has enough outside time.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Um, the next thing that we would talk about is something like a CBD supplement or um like medicinal mushrooms that are really good for cognitive support. Um, we'll link a couple of websites down below that have really good products for that. Um, there's just there's something about dealing with that cannabinoid system. Um, really, medicinal mushrooms are phenomenal. They're very powerful. Um, I think they're becoming more and more well known and talked about. Um, but that is a tremendous help as well, um, especially for not only anxiety, but um for seniors and their cognitive decline. They can kind of all work really well with that. Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Medicinal mushrooms also provide minerals, and so they support the adrenal glands, which helps take dog out of that kind of fright or flight, you know, constant steroid release. Uh, there was a study that was done at uh Angel Memorial Hospital in New York City where they had people bring in their dogs and they checked cortisol levels on all these dogs. And what they found is that the dogs who had another dog at home, even if the owner's perception was that the dogs didn't like each other, they had lower baseline cortisol levels than dogs who were the only dog in the house. So I'd encourage everybody to go out and get another dog.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

They're just like potato chips. Exactly. Well, they kind of are too.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

They kind of are. They kind of are and then um, you know, when it comes to the what can I give them. Right. And so sometimes it does come out come down to that. This year, uh, we're suspecting that the 4th of July might start June 1st in these parts. Uh, this kind of big fireworks part of the country. I don't know if there's any part that isn't. Um, and so uh prepare for it if your dog likes to hide. Make sure their hiding place is comfy and as soundproofed as possible. You know, put a TV in there or something, or something that's gonna play some, you know, white noise or something like that, or uh a fan in there that might, you know, cut off some other noises. Um, and then there are these apps that can kind of prepare them for exposure.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Yeah, and this is actually what we would do with our litters with our puppies from the time that they were three weeks old and they were starting to um eat real food off of mom. It's a very exciting, pleasurable experience. And so we would play fireworks was always the one we started with, just because it's the most problematic sound, it seems like. Um, but you can get these apps, get your dog doing something very, very like high value, pleasurable. Chewing on a raw bone. Yes, or eating their raw meal or whatever it is that they love to do. And you you play the sound, and if they're really sensitive, you just start out at a really low volume, um, and you can kind of over time work your way up. Start doing this now. This takes time, you have to build it up over time and desensitize them, but it is very, very effective to play these sounds. And you and there's just all we've done everything from gunfire to dump trucks to, you know, obviously fireworks, um smoke alarms, smoke alarms, kids screaming. There's all sorts of so we're gonna link a couple of of those down below so that you can have that. And that is something that you can very easily and proactively be doing a couple of months ahead of 4th of July or thunderstorm season or when thunderstorms happen.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Because you think too, like those puppies, those Christmas puppies, during their malleable developmental period, they're not going to hear a thunderstorm, at least not in this part of the world. No, they're not gonna hear a thunderstorm, they're not gonna hear fireworks, all they're gonna hear is gently falling snow. And so then by the time they're in a different developmental stage, now they're adolescents, now they're older, and the first thunderstorm hits, that's where you get a lot of this thunderstorm fear, fireworks fear, gunshot fear, because they weren't exposed to these during their developmental period when it would have been easy for them to acclimate to it.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

Um, a couple of things that I have found, because I did have some of my older dogs that I did not actually raise from puppyhood and do all of that with that did have fear when it came to fireworks. And so I had to manage it like everybody else. Um the the couple of things my girl did, she liked a dark bathroom with a fan on. That was that was her place to go. She felt the safest in there. Um, we would give um a high potency, high dose of CBD oil in the morning, um, and then again at night. And she did, I will say, she did. Sleep a lot of the day, but I'd much rather her sleep a lot of the day than be terrified all day. Yeah. Um, and then kind of um also with that is boxed rescue remedy. Box rescue remedy is one of my favorite things in the world. We used it, we were able to use it with puppies. It's made from flower essence. It's it's a tincture, it's a liquid tincture that you just give out of a dropper. Um, it is incredibly effective.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Incredibly effective. It's a one of those quicker um, it takes effect usually within 15 minutes. Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:31

You just have to be ready to like you can't just give one dose and then say, oh, that didn't work. You repeat it. You repeat it as needed. It's kind of like um a homeopathic. It is. It's a flower essence, which is like a subset of homeopathic remedies.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

So it's and it's okay. I mean, it's completely non-toxic, it's safe, and so you can give doses as often as needed, especially on a higher intensity day like the Fourth of July.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Yeah, or what if you you don't realize that there's a thunderstorm rolling in until there's that first crack of thunder? Then you start giving rescue remedy. You can give it every five minutes. You don't have to get have to give it orally. I always used to just put use the human one that has alcohol in it and put it in the dog's ear. Oh, not like down the ear canal, but just on the inside of the ear flap where it's that mucous membrane, it'll be instantly absorbed.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Do you think it would be something that you could add the regular rescue remedy for pets to their water bowl?

SPEAKER_02 45:24

I don't know because the glycerin in that would make the water a little sticky. Okay, okay. That was just something that occurred to me. But I but I would put the alcohol rescue remedy. If you just put a drop or two in a decent sized water bowl, that alcohol is going to be so diffusive. Oh, that's true. Yeah, they're not gonna taste it.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

So those are a couple of the like really immediate kind of um effects. CBD is better if you do it over time. It's kind of got a cumulative effect. So if you know that you're again, be proactive. If you know that your dog has sensitivity to this, it's not a bad idea to start doing it now. And you can do a very small dose, but you know, or every other day even, but just start getting it in their system. It's gonna be much um much more effective the day off.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

What do you think about doing like a test dose to make sure it doesn't like completely knock them out?

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Well, I mean, you certainly could do something like that. The dosage on the website that we'll give is pretty good. Um, I think, and they and they do give really good instructions about how to kind of um start your dog on CBD. So I would definitely follow their instructions.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

And then there's a couple of herbal things. Again, when we're in the category of like what can I give my dog? Right. So Herbsmith, uh, which is uh an organic uh herbal line made for dogs, and it's based on Chinese medicine. So they have an herbal supplement called July 3rd, uh, which you can use as needed. So you don't have to start like a month in advance. You can give it on the day of um, if you have like if your summer is kind of like it is here where fireworks can be unpredictable, uh, then you might want to start, you know, when summer starts. And you might just give, you know, one dose per day, uh, because you know it's unpredictable. You don't know when fireworks might happen. And then, you know, coming up to and on the 4th of July, you could give it more often. So that can be used as needed. Another good one is Animal Essentials, which is also everything is organic, it's all made in the USA. Um, they have a supplement, uh, an herbal blend called Tranquil Times, which is, I think it has different herbs in it from July 3rd. Um, but also my understanding, what I've heard from my clients, is that it is very effective. So I think like for alleviating your dog who has maybe generalized anxiety all the time, putting structure in place, sign up for a training class if you have time. There's even training classes online that just sort of help keep you on track. I really enjoy like going to a class because if left to my own devices, I will probably do something other than train my dogs. Um but uh, you know, but it's it's worth doing something like that just to get a little bit of structure. I remember I used to have this little brown dog named Tootsie, and I took her uh through Katie Kadine's obedience classes when she was about 12. Oh, the look on her face was priceless. She was like, Oh, I have to do what you say. Oh, okay. That was a very new concept to her. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

So what kind of changes did you notice in her absence?

SPEAKER_02 48:32

I think she was just kind of more attentive, more like, oh, what you say has meaning. Oh. Yeah, it was great. And then I took Tonka through it also when he was about, so he went a couple of years before her when he was 12. He was just a laid back, he was a great dog, but he still enjoyed the classes.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

So we've kind of run the gambut of of you know, this topic, which was kind of uh kind of our point in that, you know, that con that question, what can I give my dog for anxiety, is kind of the wrong question. It's really, you really have to look at a lot of different factors to kind of weed out what the actual problem is. Are they really an anxious dog, or is it just a lifestyle factor that you can kind of change?

SPEAKER_02 49:19

Are are their needs somehow just not being met because of the uh the drives of the breed? And uh, you know, I remember the the first Dutch Shepherd that I had, we had never had a dog like that before. We never had a dog who had like no off switch. Um, you know, my husband would be falling asleep on the couch, and Anton's kind of uh smacking him with the tug toy, like, come on. Um and so it's like once I understood that level of drive, and I had never even, I think, heard the word drive before, but you get some of these high drive dogs that really want activity, really want to do the thing that they're designed for. The household will be calmer if you can just accommodate them in some way, get them involved in some activity, find out what they like to do. For Anton, it turned out to be fetching balls and digging holes. And so we just kind of fenced off an area and were like, in here, knock yourself out. Uh, he did some amazing excavation work. Um, and we just like set aside an area where that we decided we didn't care about. Um, but so whatever you could do to again like buy the appropriate toys that your dogs can't destroy if if they are that kind of tough dog. So find activities that accommodate their needs.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

So really determine if what you're seeing is actual anxiety or just dog behavior, kind of figure that out. Think about the breed, think about what they were bred to do. Are they getting outlets and enrichment that that um take care of what they were bred to do? And then really just kind of go through the checklist of different causes and and really think about those things first. Then you can get to some of these other solutions where, you know, if you've kind of gone through all those things and you're like, no, the diet's good. I'm pretty sure the the gut's been you know dealt with, the training's in place, you've kind of gone through that checklist. These are more of the questions that should be being asked. It's like, what could be causing the anxiety, not what can I give for anxiety? But then at the end of all of that, there are some great options that are natural, that are not drugs that you can absolutely support, um, support them in that way if you still find that you need it. Or maybe they're good for the most part, and it's just those intense experiences like Fourth of July, or maybe, you know, traveling. Some dogs don't like riding in the car. You know, maybe that's the one time that you really need to kind of up that support or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

That's interesting. Um, uh, the homeopathic uh pharmacy Boiron, they make one of their um homeopathic blends is called motion calm. And those kinds of homeopathic remedies are very effective for riding in the car. Because for us, a lot of times it's hard to tell. Like, is the dog nauseous? Does the dog feel weird? Are they getting dizzy? Uh are they, are they, is it the anxiety of like the trucks passing by or something like that? And it can be hard for us to tell. There's also a wristband made for dogs called Nomo Nausea. Oh. That I have clients who have had very good success with.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

There's so much stuff there. There's a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

But so we're trying to kind of narrow it down so that you don't like spend a million dollars trying to find good solutions.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

These are something that's what I was gonna say is that um Brenda Aloff's book, Canine Body Language, is so useful for learning um the facial expressions of anxiety. Because a lot of people see the dog. The dog might be panting a little bit, it might be wagging its tail. If you say, Fluffy, how are you doing? They kind of wag their tail a little bit. Um, but once you learn to read their facial expressions, you'll be able to detect this dog is actually like quietly having an anxiety attack in the corner. Interesting. Or really is panicking on the inside. A lot of people don't realize it because you take the dog to the vet and the dog will eat the treats and wag their tail, and everybody's like, Buddy's so sweet, we love sing Buddy. And you know, you could watch Buddy's facial expressions and maybe learn that Buddy is actually having a full-blown panic attack, but he's just too nice of a dog to do anything about it, and they don't know what to do. That's interesting. Yeah. So um, so that I think is another good resource. So, in general, we're saying maybe don't just drug your dog right off the bat. Kind of try to figure out what the triggers are, what's going on. We didn't say a lot about uh like the general mood and emotional pitch inside the home. But you know, we know that that can contribute as well.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

Um and and it may be the kind of thing where you need to maybe you need to take your spouse in the other room or in the garage to have a fight so that the dogs or make sure that the dog has somewhere to be that is out of, you know, kind of if there's chaos that happens, make sure that they have kind of a place that they can get away from it if they need to.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

Yeah. Um and then, you know, sort of take the situation in hand, uh, you know, rather than just saying, you know, I'm giving him a pill twice a day, I don't know what else to do for his anxiety. If you do the other things first, then instead of just kind of, like you said, kind of damping down the anxiety, but it's still there and it's still taking its toll on your dog's health by having that elevated cortisol level, having those circulating anxiety hormones. So maybe instead of just kind of trying to put a lid on it, maybe you can work from the ground floor. And if you ended up with an anxious dog for whatever reason, I think Minnesota, the the dog rescues here are phenomenal. They re-home so many dogs in this state. I'm surprised that that everybody doesn't have like 10 dogs because they bring in so many dogs and successfully find great homes for them. But coming out of the puppy mill rescues, there's a lot of anxious dogs there. Of course. And so there are things that you can do so that five, 10 years from now, your dog is no longer anxious versus having a dog who's afraid of thunderstorms its entire life. And every thunderstorm is like knocking an hour off the dog's longevity.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

So just make it a point to really think about all these different factors. Know that there are some great natural options other than medication, if that really is where you land, where you've kind of taken all these things into consideration and you still feel like they need support, or maybe you're addressing something that is gonna, you know, take some time to really kind of like flush itself out. You can kind of support them in the meantime, but with that longer term goal, like what Dr. Levy was just talking about. Uh, hopefully this gives some insight um a little bit more into that question. What can I give my dog for anxiety? It's a lot bigger, a lot bigger than that. And hopefully we've kind of um brought that to light today. So join us next time again on the Crunchy Carnivore podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. Our goal is always to encourage others to seek out the holistic approach by way of education and empowerment. You can check out our online resources at wellspringha.com. You can follow us on our YouTube channel, Wellspring Holistic Animal Academy, and you can also find us on Instagram at wellspring underscore ha. We hope that this has been helpful and that you continue with us on your journey to holistic health for your pets. As always, we're here to be unapologetically all natural.