The Church - EP2

Episode 2: The Church

What is the Church—really? Is it a building, a gathering, a body, or a bride? In this episode, we uncover the biblical identity and divine purpose of the Church, separating tradition from truth. In Revelation, we explore God’s blueprint for His people, the power of unity, and the responsibility every believer carries. Whether you've been in church your whole life or you're just now returning, this conversation will challenge and sharpen your understanding of what it means to be the Church.

Transcript

Jonathan: Hey, everyone. Welcome back for another deep dive. Today we're looking at personality types, but not just any personality types. We're going to be exploring seven distinct characteristics, you could even say personalities found within the church. And get this, they're inspired by those letters to the seven churches you find in Revelation, chapters two and three.

Cassie: It's really fascinating, you know, how these letters, they were addressed to these specific communities when way back then. But somehow they still give us these incredible insights into, like, our individual traits even today, you know?

Jonathan: Yeah, it's like each one kind of holds up this mirror and we can see ourselves, you know, like our strengths and even those challenges we all deal with sometimes. So I guess our goal today is to kind of help you figure out, but first, which of these seven characteristics, these personalities, like, really resonates with you, you know, the one that feels most familiar. And then we're going to try and give you some tools to help you navigate those little bumps in the road, you know, those potential hurdles, those challenges.

Cassie: Yeah, and don't worry, we're going to do it without getting all bogged down and, you know, like, theological jargon or anything too technical. We'll keep it relatable and, you know, maybe even use some examples from, like, biblical figures.

Jonathan: All right, I'm into it. Let's kick things off with that first characteristic, what we're calling the loving church. And just a heads up, it doesn't mean the other types aren't loving. It's just that this group, you know, folks like Martha, Mary, even Jonah, they kind of embody this specific type of dedication.

Cassie: Yeah, you're right on the money with that. It's like they have this deep sense of discernment. You'll find them working tirelessly, like, they never stop for the things they really believe in. And they absolutely, they cannot stand anything they see as evil.

Jonathan: So they're like, all in, totally committed, and they have this super strong sense of, like, what's right and wrong, huh?

Cassie: Exactly. But here's the thing. That strong sense of right and wrong, it can actually turn into, well, their biggest hurdle, you know, because they have these super high standards. Sometimes they can be a little, maybe too serious. They might isolate themselves, and sometimes they just struggle to let go of burdens. Think of Martha, you know, so focused on all that serving that she kind of missed out on, like, that deeper connection Jesus was offering.

Jonathan: I see what you mean. It's like a strength, but if you don't keep it balanced, it can flip into a weakness. So for those listening who are like, wait a minute, that's me. I'm always striving, carrying the weight of the world. What's the key to finding that balance? You know, not losing that passion, but keeping things healthy.

Cassie: It's all about practicing discernment, but without letting it, you know, morph into judgment. It's about being dedicated but not shutting yourself off from. Well, from everyone else. You know, think of it this way. You can have these strong convictions without becoming totally rigid. You can be passionate about truth and justice and still find joy and connection.

Jonathan: That makes sense. So it's not about, like, changing who you are completely, but more like channeling your energy in a way that allows for dedication and healthy connection at the same time. All right, so that was the loving church. Let's switch gears and talk about the courageous church. When you say that, I immediately think of people like, you know, Thomas, John the Baptist, even King Saul in some ways.

Cassie: Oh, it's interesting you bring up Saul. Yeah. This group, they really do embody resilience, generosity, and this willingness to, like, put their faith above any kind of worldly wealth. They'll stand up for their beliefs even when it feels like, I don't know, like, everyone's against them.

Jonathan: Yeah, like John the Baptist. Right? Fearlessly challenging the powers that be. But then you mentioned King Saul, and he wasn't always the best example of courage.

Cassie: Well, that's what's so fascinating about the courageous church. You know, it's not about this image of, like, you know, this totally unwavering, fearless Persona. A lot of them, they actually struggle with internal battles, like, with doubt. You know, like Saul, he had moments of real bravery, but then he often faltered because of insecurity and being impulsive.

Jonathan: You know, so maybe real courage is more about, like, those internal victories of the times. We push past our fear, even when it's, like, super intense, you're getting it.

Cassie: It's about acknowledging that fear and that doubt, and then ch. Choosing to, you know, to act anyway, speaking your truth, even if your voice shakes a little. And for anyone listening who's like, yep, that's me, the key is to cultivate that inner strength right alongside that outward boldness.

Jonathan: That's powerful. It's not about being fearless. It's about being courageous, even when you are afraid. Okay, now we've got to talk about those truth seekers, right? The honest church. People like Nicodemus, Nathaniel, even Balaam fits into this category. They're all about that deep desire for knowledge and understanding. Always asking questions, always seeking.

Cassie: And they're loyal, super loyal. Always on this quest for spiritual truth, and they're willing to, you know, to challenge the norm to find it. Like Nicodemus. Remember how he came to Jesus at night? That illustrates it perfectly. He was willing to risk his reputation to, well, to seek that truth.

Jonathan: Okay, but there's got to be a catch, right? Like with Balaam, you know, even though he received divine messages, he ended up letting his desire for power and prestige corrupt him.

Cassie: You're absolutely right. The honest church folks, they can be so focused on this quest for knowledge that they, you know, they can become susceptible to false teachings. They get caught up in conflicting loyalties, or even let the. The allure of power and influence, you know, lead them astray.

Jonathan: So curiosity and a hunger for knowledge, those are good, but they need a healthy dose of, like, discernment to keep things in check.

Cassie: Absolutely. For those who are relating to this, the key is to develop this strong spiritual discernment. Don't just accept everything you hear. You know, test the information, check the sources, and make sure your pursuit of truth, that it's grounded in genuine faith and not, you know, personal gain.

Jonathan: Don't just chase knowledge, chase wisdom. Makes sense. Okay, onto the trusting church. These are folks like James and Andrew. Hardworking, compassionate, dedicated. The ones who go the extra mile every time.

Cassie: They're natural leaders, but also great followers, you know, comfortable in both roles. James, he stepped right into leadership in the early church. And Andrew, always connecting people with Jesus. They genuinely love others and see the good in everyone, which is beautiful, but.

Jonathan: I mean, it can also make them vulnerable. Right? Like, if you're too trusting, people can take advantage of that.

Cassie: You hit the nail on the head. That's the challenge for the trusting church. You know, they're open hearts. They can sometimes make them, well, kind of blind to the realities of, you know, human nature. So they're susceptible to manipulation or making decisions that are a bit naive.

Jonathan: So how do they protect their hearts, you know, without losing that beautiful openness? Is that even possible?

Cassie: It's about finding a good balance between, you know, being open but also being cautious. They need to learn how to discern who's worthy of that trust and how to, you know, protect themselves from people who might exploit that kindness. Think of it like this. You can be trusting without being naive.

Jonathan: Right? Okay, so it's about being wise and discerning with your trust. Not closing yourself off, but, you know, learning to recognize the signs, the red flags from those who might not have the best intentions. Okay, let's shift to the watchful church folks like Peter, Philip, even Samson. They're always on alert, like, aware of those potential dangers, just waiting to pounce.

Cassie: Yeah, they're super observant. Often the first to notice, like, those little subtle shifts or spot threads that other people miss completely. Peter, even with his impulsive moments, he often recognized, you know, like, Jesus's true identity, and he often pointed out potential danger.

Jonathan: But they can also fall into repetitive patterns. Right? Like Peter denying Jesus or Samson falling prey to the same temptations over and over.

Cassie: That's a key insight. Their vigilance can become like hypervigilance. And then they become, you know, easily offended, spiritually lazy, even repeating the same sins they're trying to avoid.

Jonathan: So being aware, it's not enough. You have to actually act on it. What does that look like for someone who's, you know, listening and thinking, wait, that's so me. What steps can they take to turn that awareness into action?

Cassie: It's about, well, transforming that awareness into action.

Jonathan: Right.

Cassie: Cultivating spiritual discipline. The things that help you stay grounded so you don't, you know, fall back into those same negative patterns.

Jonathan: So, like what, regular prayer, meditation? Or just being more mindful of their actions and thoughts throughout the day? Those kinds of things.

Cassie: Exactly. And also learning to forgive themselves, you know, when they stumble. Everyone makes mistakes. The important thing is to learn from them and move forward.

Jonathan: Right. So being watchful, it doesn't mean being perfect. It means being aware, taking action, and extending yourself a little grace when you mess up. All right, let's talk the faithful church. Now. King David, he totally comes to mind. They're all about steadfastness, like this unwavering belief and a deep trust in God's plan, no matter what.

Cassie: Yeah, they're obedient, relying on God's strength to get through challenges. And they're not afraid to express their faith even when, you know, even when it's tough, when. When they're facing opposition.

Jonathan: David and Goliath, right? Perfect example. He was totally outmatched. But his faith and courage, I mean, they never wavered. But even David, he had moments of weakness, times when he strayed from his path.

Cassie: That's important to remember. Even the most faithful people, they're not perfect. David's affair with Bathsheba and all that, it just shows that faithfulness, it's not about perfection. It's about persevering, sticking with it so.

Jonathan: You can be deeply devoted and still mess up sometimes. Yeah. What advice would you give to someone listening who really resonates with this characteristic, who may be going through a Rough time, feeling like their faith is shaking a bit. What can they hold onto?

Cassie: Remember that. Faithfulness. It's a journey, it's not a destination. Right? Keep seeking God's guidance. Admit when you've messed up and ask for forgiveness. And lean on your community for support. Let people walk alongside you when things get tough.

Jonathan: We weren't meant to go it alone. Community and support, those are essential. Okay, last one for this part of our deep dive, the zealous church. I think of Ananias and Simon with this one. They're driven, ambitious, and they often achieve, like, great success in the world.

Cassie: So much energy, so much ambition can lead to amazing things. But their challenge, it's distinguishing between worldly success and, you know, actual spiritual wealth. Those two things aren't always the same.

Jonathan: So they might mistake those achievements, the outward stuff, for actual spiritual growth. Prioritizing how things look instead of that genuine inward transformation.

Cassie: Exactly. They can get so focused on what they're getting, you know, personal gain, that they forget about serving others like Ananias and Sapphira, trying to seem more generous than they really were. A classic cautionary tale about, you know, seeking recognition rather than genuine spiritual growth.

Jonathan: So for anyone listening who's like, oh, that's totally me. The key is to align their actions with genuine faith. Make sure their ambition is, like, serving a purpose bigger than themselves. But how do they do that? How do you make sure you're not just chasing worldly success?

Cassie: Take a step back and examine your motivations. Really ask yourself, are your actions driven by a desire to serve others, to have a positive impact, or are they fueled by your ego, a need for recognition, or just wanting to accumulate more stuff?

Jonathan: So it's this constant process of checking in with yourself, making sure your heart's in the right place. It's about using that drive, that ambition to make a real difference in the world, not just to build yourself up.

Cassie: Exactly. And that's where we'll wrap up part one of our deep dive into these seven characteristics before we move on. What's one thing? You know, just one thing you'd like our listeners to think about? We've only just scratched the surface of these personality types. What's something they can take away from this first part?

Jonathan: I think it's important for people to remember, you know, like, each of these characteristics. Even with those little hiccups, those potential pitfalls, it's ultimately a gift. It's more about, you know, recognizing those gifts we have and then learning how to. I don't know how to use them. In a good way, in an effective way.

Cassie: Yeah, I like that. It's not about trying to like, change who we are deep down. It's more about refining those qualities. Right. So we can become the best versions of ourselves. It's all a process, you know, growth and self discovery.

Jonathan: Exactly. And remember, these are just starting points. It's not like, you know, a definitive label. We're all a mix, a blend of these different characteristics. We might just have one that's a little, you know, more dominant than the others. So as you're listening, pay attention to the one that like, really speaks to you. Right. The one that feels familiar, maybe even a little, I don't know, uncomfortable. That's where the real growth happens when we face those, those challenges head on.

Cassie: And don't be afraid to go back and, you know, explore those scriptures we mentioned. Read those stories about Martha, David, Peter, and see how, how those characteristics played out in might give you a whole new perspective on, you know, on your own journey.

Jonathan: Okay, so we've covered a lot. Let's do a quick recap of those seven characteristics and those key hurdles, those challenges. So first up, the loving church, they often struggle with balancing that dedication, which is amazing, with, you know, the risk of isolating themselves.

Cassie: Right, right. And then there's the courageous church. They're often battling this, like, internal struggle with doubt, even when they seem, you know, super strong on the outside.

Jonathan: And the honest church, those truth seekers, they got to be careful about, you know, really cultivating that discernment because on that quest for truth, it's easy to get sidetracked.

Cassie: Yeah. And the trusting church, they need to find that sweet spot, you know, between being open hearted, which is beautiful, but also having a little bit of skepticism so they don't get taken advantage of.

Jonathan: And let's not forget the watchful church, they're awesome at spotting danger, but they need to take that awareness and turn it into action, break free from those, those patterns, those habits that might be holding them back.

Cassie: And the faithful church, they need to learn how to keep going, you know, how to persevere when those trials come, and they will come. Remember, faithfulness is a journey. It's not like you just arrive and it's okay to, you know, trip up along the way. We all do.

Jonathan: And last but not least, the zealous church, they have to make sure that ambition, that drive, that it's lined up with genuine faith, that it's driving them to serve something bigger than themselves.

Cassie: It's fascinating, isn't it? Each of these characteristics has this, like, shadow side, this potential pitfall. But the good news is that recognizing it, that's the first step toward, well, overcoming it.

Jonathan: Awareness is key. Once you see where that potential for imbalance is, then you can choose, right? You can consciously choose to cultivate the good stuff and kind of lessen the impact. And the negative.

Cassie: Exactly.

Jonathan: So if you're listening, you're thinking, man, I'm constantly overwhelmed, always feeling burdened, even a little isolated. Maybe you resonate with the loving church. And if that's you, the key is to learn to delegate, to set some healthy boundaries and to really prioritize taking care of yourself. You can't pour from an empty cup, right?

Cassie: And if you're struggling with doubt, like questioning your own courage, just remember, true courage. It's not the absence of fear. It's that decision to act even though you are afraid. Find a good community, people who support you, mentors who encourage you and, you know, can help you step outside that comfort zone.

Jonathan: For those of you who are, you know, drawn to explore different spiritual ideas. You're curious, but you find yourself questioning everything. Discernment, that's your superpower. Ask those tough questions, go deeper, and seek guidance from people you trust, sources that feel reliable. Don't just accept anything blindly.

Cassie: And if you're naturally trusting and you've been hurt, well, you don't have to completely close off your heart. You can still be open while, you know, learning to spot those red flags. Trust your gut. Observe how people behave, and surround yourself with people who have, you know, really earned your trust.

Jonathan: Those who are constantly alert, always on the lookout for danger. Remember true vigilance. It's more than just awareness, right? It's about taking action. Develop those spiritual disciplines, whether it's prayer, meditation, or just being more mindful of your thoughts, you know, and actions throughout the day. It's about staying grounded and not letting that anxiety take over.

Cassie: And if you're known for your, you know, unwavering faith, but you're facing some setbacks, remember perseverance. That's the key. Lean on your people. Ask for forgiveness when you mess up, and don't be afraid to ask for help. We all need it sometimes.

Jonathan: And if you're driven, ambitious, always reaching for that next goal, that next achievement, remember true fulfillment. It comes from making a positive impact on the world, you know, not just from collecting trophies or accolades. Make sure your goals are aligned with your values and use your talents to serve others. Make a difference.

Cassie: And these are just a few examples. You know, the steps you take, they're going to be different for everyone. It all depends on your, you know, your specific situation, your characteristic, all of that.

Jonathan: Right. But here's the takeaway. You have the power to shape your character. You can lean into your strengths and, you know, work on overcoming those hurdles. It's a journey of self discovery and it can lead to incredible transformation.

Cassie: And you don't have to go it alone. Right? Reach out to your community, to your spiritual mentors, get support, get guidance sharing your struggles and celebrating your victories. I mean, that's what makes the journey so much richer.

Jonathan: So we've explored these seven characteristics. We looked at their strengths, those potential pitfalls. We talked about some practical tips. What's one final thought you'd like to leave our listener with? You know, as we wrap up this part of our deep dive?

Cassie: You know, we've explored these seven characteristics you find within the church. We've looked at their strengths and, you know, those potential pitfalls. And now I think it's time to get practical.

Jonathan: Yeah, totally. Let's shift gears and talk about how we can actually apply all this.

Cassie: Exactly. Knowing your strengths, those potential weaknesses, what steps can you actually take, like today, you know, to overcome those hurdles, those characteristic hurdles, and move closer to, I don't know, like your spiritual goals?

Jonathan: That's the big question, Right. And I bet the answer, as with most things in life, is it depends.

Cassie: You got it. It depends. It depends on, you know, your specific characteristic, of course, and on your individual circumstances.

Jonathan: Right. Because what works for a loving church type might not be the best approach for a zealous church type.

Cassie: Right, exactly. But even with those differences, there are some, you know, general principles we can apply across the board.

Jonathan: Right. Give me the good stuff. What are those principles?

Cassie: Well, first and foremost, it all starts with awareness.

Jonathan: We've talked about that before. Right. Knowing yourself, knowing your tendencies.

Cassie: Right. Once you identified, you know, like your dominant characteristic and its shadow side, you can start paying attention to how it shows up in your everyday life.

Jonathan: So, for example, if you're a loving church type, you might notice that you, I don't know, maybe you take on too much or you have trouble saying no. Maybe you put everyone else's needs before your own.

Cassie: Exactly. And if you're a courageous church type, maybe you catch yourself second guessing your decisions or you hesitate to, like, speak up. You let fear kind of hold you back.

Jonathan: And for those honest church types, maybe they jump into every new spiritual teaching without really stopping to think. You know, does it really align with my core beliefs? Does this resonate with me that's it.

Cassie: The key is to become like an observer of your own thoughts, you know, your feelings and how you behave. It's about noticing those patterns, but without judgment.

Jonathan: So step one is awareness. What's next?

Cassie: Next comes acceptance.

Jonathan: Acceptance of what exactly?

Cassie: Acceptance of your characteristic, you know, both the good and the not so good.

Jonathan: So not trying to, like, fight against it or change it completely.

Cassie: Not necessarily. It's more about acknowledging that it's a part of who you are. And that's okay.

Jonathan: It's like saying, you know, this is where I'm starting from. How can I work with this?

Cassie: Exactly. Because fighting your own nature, I mean, that's exhausting. And usually it doesn't really work anyway.

Jonathan: Makes more sense to like, embrace who you and then figure out how to navigate those challenges. Right.

Cassie: A. Precisely. And that brings us to the next step. Strategy.

Jonathan: Okay, now we're talking. What kind of strategies? What are we talking about here?

Cassie: Again, it depends on the specific characteristic.

Jonathan: Sure. But can you give our listeners, like, some examples? What might a good strategy look like for a loving church type who's struggling with, I don't know, maybe feeling isolated?

Cassie: Well, they might start by, I don't know, making an effort to, you know, schedule time for social interaction, even if it feels a little uncomfortable at first.

Jonathan: So instead of saying yes to like, every request, every invitation, maybe they start saying no sometimes so they can, I don't know, take care of themselves a little bit.

Cassie: Exactly. They could also think about joining a group, you know, maybe a club, something that aligns with their interests, or, you know, even talking to a therapist or counselor could be helpful.

Jonathan: What about, what about a courageous church type who's like, really battling with self doubt? What could they try?

Cassie: One helpful strategy is to, like, identify their fears and then, I don't know, kind of challenge those fears with like, evidence or logic.

Jonathan: So if they're afraid of public speaking, for example, they might remind themselves that everyone gets nervous, you know, and that the more you practice, the easier it gets.

Cassie: Right. They could also look into taking like a public speaking class or joining a group like Toastmasters.

Jonathan: And for the honest church type who's susceptible to, you know, getting caught up in false teachings, what advice would you give?

Cassie: They might benefit from, you know, really developing a strong foundation in their own spiritual tradition.

Jonathan: So, like, diving deeper into scripture, maybe reading some theological text, having, I don't know, some good conversations with people they trust, you know, spiritual mentors.

Cassie: Exactly. It's about grounding themselves in something solid, something reliable. And they might also want to, you know, learn to be more critical of the information they encounter. You know, questioning sources and looking for evidence before just accepting something as truth.

Jonathan: These are really helpful examples. And what I'm hearing is it's so important to be proactive.

Cassie: Absolutely. Overcoming that characteristic hurdle, you know, that challenge, it's not something that just magically happens. You have to put in the work.

Jonathan: It takes intention, effort, and, you know, a willingness to try different approaches and to be patient.

Cassie: It's a journey, not a race.

Jonathan: There will be bumps along the way, you know, setbacks, challenges. It's about learning from those experiences and keeping moving forward.

Cassie: You got it. With persistence and the right support, you can make real progress and, you know, experience real growth.

Jonathan: And that growth, that transformation, that's what leads to, you know, a more fulfilling life, a life where you're living in alignment with your values.

Cassie: It's about becoming like the best version of yourself, the person you were meant to be.

Jonathan: I love that. So to our listeners, I want to encourage you, take what we've talked about today and, you know, actually apply it to your own life.

Cassie: Yeah. Think about your strengths, you know, acknowledge those challenges and start developing some strategies to help you, you know, to help you overcome those hurdles.

Jonathan: And remember, you don't have to do it alone. We're all in this together, right? Supporting each other, learning from each other.

Cassie: That's what community is all about. Sharing the journey makes it richer and more meaningful.

Jonathan: Well said. So that wraps up our deep dive into the seven characteristics we find within the church.

Cassie: We hope you found this exploration insightful and empowering.

Jonathan: We hope it's given you some practical tools to work with, and we wish.

Cassie: You all the best on your journey of, you know, growth and self discovery.

Jonathan: Until next time, keep diving deep.