S1 Episode 12- Amy & MJ Discussions: Tantrums VS Meltdowns

Amy and MJ discuss the challenges autism parents face with figuring out their kiddos meltdowns vs having a tantrum and hard it is to find the balance of disciplining your child on the spectrum

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Okay, welcome everyone to another episode of Mom's Raising the Spectrum. This is, I think, what episode 12, yep. We're on 12, and we're joining together virtually this week, and we're excited to just talk about some things today.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Yep, yeah. First off, guys, if you were wondering, I'm having a boy.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Woo! She had her gender ability. And Kai predicted it, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:46

He did. He like knew from the second. He's like, there's a boy in there.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

That's so crazy. And he knew you were pregnant before you did.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yes, he did. Yeah. I was like, you got a little genius on your hand. You know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Do you have um any like names that you're throwing out there for a boy? Or has did Kai put any input on his brother's name?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Uh he just throws random names out there. It changes all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

We chose Koi, like the Japanese lucky fish.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Oh, that's so cool. Koi and Kai. Good luck with keeping that straight.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Well, luckily, Kai's full name is Kaizen, so it makes it a little easier, but it's also Japanese, so you know that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

And speaking of Kaizen, you hang your Kaizen's corner shirt on.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

I do, I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yeah, talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Oh, it's dedicated to my son, just an autism awareness page and community within our community that I'm still trying to set up and everything for autism awareness and to get more resources out there. And it's pretty much another platform besides the podcast where we can like your own personal.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is important to share your own personal story and journey with Kai. And you know, because we have ours, which we're talking to people, and we get to talk about them, but it's good to have our own personal stuff, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Yeah, this was like more of in the beginning of us meeting and everything. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

That's right. I tried to start like a little um autism like meetup group where we would do vets and stuff like that. It just didn't, it didn't really launch, but um, because you know, autism society does their own, and um, there's another group that does like play dates, and I saw that and I was like, oh, they've got it. Like, I'm not gonna stress about it. And that's when I had the vision for the podcast. I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, the PALs one. So after I kind of shifted from that, I was like, Well, I'll do my podcast, and then now rest is history.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Yes, yes. It's like I have another autism venture that I'm starting too. That's gonna be I already have the LLC for it, and it's gonna be like that. Yes, I actually want you to be on my board.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yeah, yeah, I would be honored to, and you said, was it that I meant Hannah is gonna be on your board too? Wonderful, yes, yes, of course. I would be happy to. Yay! Maybe we could get Lex on as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Oh my gosh, yes, because I do need like, oh my gosh, I can see it already. Yeah, oh, we'll have to talk later about that.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Yeah, how cute was it having our boys play together in the oh my gosh, it was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

They were just in their own little world next to each other, just I was like about to tear up.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

So I had we had my son's birthday party, and Jackson, Kai, and um Lex, who was on our first episode, the photographer, her son Gianni came, and they're all three of them just swimming together in the pool. I'll have to send you a little video Lex sent me of the three of them. It's so cute and just felt my heart with so much joy to watch the three of them, you know, parallel play but still interact with each other. And then I had my cousins there that weren't on the spectrum and just having a good mix of kiddos together. And another friend of mine, or my old coworker, came with her daughter, and um, you know, she's always wondered if her daughter has ADHD and maybe she's on the spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

So kind of like had that like because we know I was like, Oh, she's somewhere along.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Yeah, we I remember when we worked together, we talked about that a lot, and I seen her, I met her daughter a few times, and uh so it was so cute to see her, you know, again. I hadn't seen her in a while, and her and Gianni, I hadn't seen in like a year or so to watch them just I'm sure they thought the same thing with Jackson, just see them sprout up, but for sure.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

He did, he did, he didn't really want to go in like the slide, but he was all about the pool, not going with the water though.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

We're and he enjoyed the little pool part that was on the slide, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He did good hit the pinata too. I'm so proud of him.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Yes, he was so excited when the candy came falling down to like can I? I'm like, go ahead, go.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Yeah, cutie asked for permission. He's gentle, yeah, he's a gentle little cutie. So uh we're gonna talk about some challenges that we both can relate to right now, and I'm sure a lot of other parents can as your kiddos are growing up on the spectrum, and then you know, being kids, and you know, kids are always testing boundaries as is, and then you throw autism on it and it makes it even harder.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Oh, yeah, for sure. Kai is always testing the boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Yeah, like what are some things that he does, and how do you do you feel like you can navigate how to like because I have a hard time finding how to discipline him, like saying, like teaching him no's and you know that stuff, but it's a lot harder because they don't understand.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah, well, Kai definitely understands no, he doesn't like it.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Nope, they sure don't do that. I don't think any kid does, but they really don't.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Oh yeah, he's he is a negotiator, a negotiator. That is his his coping skill and trying to prop. Oh man, that would be interesting. That they will not win, like he's a negotiator.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

That's the first thing that popped in my head is like, oh, he could probably like do good in the law uh in a courtroom, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:36

For sure. It's like we'll be like, okay, we're gonna be done with this in two minutes. He's like, how about three?

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Or he's gonna be a car salesman, one of the two, or like you know, toggle prices.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yes, it is. He's he's hilarious. But when I have to remember that I have to like stick to like the boundaries, so like a no means a no. So when he doesn't get his way, it's like the the tantrum turns into a meltdown. Then that's where I'm like, okay, so how am I supposed to discipline him when it starts as like the trying to get what he wants, but then is so old.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

They get so worked, they get so worked up, they can't and they can't calm down, huh? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

And then it's just like Sour Patch Kid, zero to a hundred. Yeah, it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

I does he like throw himself on the floor. What does he do when he has a meltdown?

SPEAKER_00 8:49

He has started hitting himself or others, yeah. Everyone else, everyone else, yes. See, Jackson hits himself. He I notice has started trying to bite. He did that when he was like younger, like years ago, but now he'll like test the boundaries and like but won't actually do so. It's like I've got to notice Jackson Jackson bites at objects.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Like his tablet um has got that like that like cushion-y, like uh case and holder, yeah. And his upper the part of it where you have to have the handle is got teeth marks all on it because he'll just when he gets so frustrated.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

And he'll like bite on his toy car. Um what hurts the most, and I'm sure you probably feel the pain if he's hitting you guys. Jackson one time has punched me really hard in the chest. Um, but he does a lot of head banging. Oh, that's uh that's one of the ones it is so hard because it's like you know, why like I don't understand why he wants to impact pain on himself, and I don't think any of us really know it'd be interesting to hear from like an adult that maybe used to do it or something like that, and what that feeling is because you know, I don't know if you notice Jackson had a giant bruise on his forehead because he just banged his head so hard. Yeah, and he'll do it on the tile floor, he'll do it on objects, you know, countertops, glass door, whatever, and it's just like it's so emotionally exhausting when he does that for sure. You can't say I bet the same thing. Does so does he like hit you guys out of frustration?

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Yep, he'll go to the the hitting, he's starting to learn to unbuckle himself, he will scream at the top of his lungs, like we can't get one word in. If it's like an object or something, he'll start hitting the object or throw it. And so when it comes to the tablet, we're like, hey, hey, oh yeah, yeah, you're not Jackson knows.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Yeah, Jackson will throw it, but he'll go boom, bang, like his head. Does Kai toss it?

SPEAKER_00 11:21

He he'll like try to hit the screen.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Uh yeah, it's so I don't, it's like it's emotionally just so hard, and people, I feel like you know, others who don't have kids on the spectrum will never understand, you know, um what that's like. It's just it's beyond a tantrum, you know what I mean? Like you said, it starts as a tantrum, but they just get so emotional and they don't know how to regulate their motions.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Right, right. And I know a lot of people they're not, they don't they think a meltdown and a tantrum are the same things, but they're they're not like a tantrum is like it's goal driven, like, oh, I want this, so I'm gonna do this, and then see if you're looking and get a response or something. Yeah, which yeah, like the whole they start out like that, but then the meltdown is more of they're not in control, they it's just overload, sensory overload, and it kind of makes you have to take a step back and try to analyze like even the surroundings, what's going on, and sometimes when emotions are high, that's not easy to do, and especially with me being pregnant, my hormones are like crazy. I was gonna say, and then you got now, you gotta watch out, make sure he doesn't yeah, I've been having to do that a lot, um, especially when he he probably forgets because you can't see it sometimes if I like have a blanket or something.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

So and then when his emotions are that high, he's not thinking about that, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Yeah, at all.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Yeah, you know, I've heard I know it won't work on Jackson. Um maybe I could try it. I've seen other moms um teach their kids like safe hands when they get angry, like somehow they like teach them how to like you know keep their hands like here and say. So I don't know if that's something he because Kai's a little bit more receptive to instructions.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Yeah, we do the red choice, green choice. Um even that now triggers him because he knows and he it's like he wants to like be in the green zone and make green choices, but his body is just in the red zone and it frustrates him.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

So it's just a full circle and it's and it this goes to show like uh just because like like Jackson, who's pretty much I mean, he's not non-verbal movement non-speaking, and he has actually you know meltdowns because he can't verbalize what he wants and needs, but then Kai who can, he still has his own uh frustrations and meltdowns and things that trigger that. So it's so it's so neat to see that just because you know, I hear I was thinking, you know, when I obviously this past year it's changed my mindset, but like before I thought, oh, it was just really nonverbal kids, you know, have these behaviors. I think maybe they have maybe more because they can't communicate or maybe in different ways. But you know, I really after like meeting you and other moms who do have kids that can communicate their wants and needs, um, maybe not fully, but some, they still have those meltdowns too and frustrations. And like you said, they can they know instructions, but sometimes they may not understand it.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Yeah, right? It's like for Kai, I feel like because he understands a lot, the fact that he doesn't get it instantly is like a super quick zero to a hundred, like that instant gratification, there's like 0.5 seconds before it happens. So yeah, oh it's yeah, it's gotten me to the point to where I'm like, should I like should I look into behavioral therapy? But then it's like, is there behavioral therapy to where I don't have to like put them like an ABA all day? So yeah, it's like that's what I'm trying to research.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Right, yeah, because typically ABA, it's either 40 hours, minimum 12. So, you know, he could get approved for 12, but now he's gonna be going to kindergarten, so it's like all day.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

So like it's like next I'm thinking, where where are the tools at for me to learn those? Where I can learn what to do. Like, do I need to like take a certification for behavioral therapy?

SPEAKER_01 16:39

But you know what? I'm wondering if like um, you know, we'll have to look into some like autism society, SARC. They may have like classes or um meetings once a month and stuff like that where we can learn those stuff, you know. Typically, you know, and maybe I might be able to help you. I have some skills in that just from working in the field for so long, but by all means I'm not a professional.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Um, but like it's it's cool to see when I'm in the family guidance meetings um for my son, and they tell me like instructions how to teach something, I get, you know, I get it where I can predict what they're gonna say. But when they're having behaviors, that stuff I'm not real, you know what I mean? I'm not really and each kid is so different, so it's like and how do we, you know?

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah, there's so much I can actually do not being able to protect myself.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

So yeah, there's um yeah, I remember uh and maybe Deb might be able to help you too, because there's to be DDD, are you're his DDD, you're a DDD like paid parent provider, right? Yeah. But I don't think as a paid parent provider, we have to take that. What is it? There's like a P is it P and I no, there's some type of like course that you take for behaviorals, but I think that's more for like a institutional, like not institutional, but like a a center, like an uh like a place of employment kind of thing where you're working at like a day center or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

But yeah, maybe ask Deb. See, she knows she may know of some classes if we can't find anything with Sark or Autism Society, because I'm sure they do have stuff that you can take, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Oh yeah, but it might be like a gym, not really to huh. I feel it's something people would go to as well because this these are like the conversations that we're afraid to have because of the judgment.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

So but other other parents or guardians in our world totally get it and understand that, like, you know, we need to learn those things because what you normally do to uh teach your children not to do certain things, you know, what's right, what's wrong, how to handle your emotions, that doesn't always work for our kids. So it's just it's so different.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

I think it's also like unlearning the things that we went through as a child as well, because I'm not trying to repeat those same things, and it's almost at default that comes up first, and it's like taking a step back and like self-reflecting in the tiny amount of time that you have before you have to get back into okay, well, now what else do I do?

SPEAKER_01 19:49

So yeah, and it's just it's so much at once because they're going through this, and you try something and doesn't work, or you know, you're like, What I think I need to do, is that what I need to do? You're doing all this in your head while your kid is having a meltdown, you know, and then what gets what's even more stressful, I feel like it's in the car. Like if he's having a meltdown, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yep, kind of start taking his seatbelt off now.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Oh, he can take it all.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yes, I mean not the bottom part yet, but the top part, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Yeah, oh so and that it's I know they I think they make some type of equipment that lack like some type somehow locks it. We'll have to do some research. I've seen someone talk about like that where they've invented something to where they can't pull that apart. God, that's so scary. Yeah, yeah. And then he's because you know, I mean, he's so tiny that he could maneuver his, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. I had a co-worker her son would or her grandson she has custody of, he would maneuver himself out of the car seat. A houdini, yeah, that's scary. I I'm so glad Jackson doesn't do that, but he will bang, like he will whack his head on the back then. It was his car seat, now he's in the booster seat, but he'll still whack his head on the seat, and then I'm afraid he's gonna learn how to whack it on the window.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Yeah, Kai kicks the backs of seat.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Oh and it's like we have to pull over, like you know, screaming like Mariah Carey, and I'm like, you can't I'm I'm like literally Mariah Carey. It's that high, and it's like he does have that higher pitched voice, yeah. It's like you're trying to tell him things and you're trying to give him options, and he's just doesn't want to hear anything. He's had it, and at that point, there's

SPEAKER_01 22:00

There and that's one thing ABA taught me is like when they're in that meltdown, you kind of just have to calm them through it and then try to get a teaching moment after that because in the moment, there's no way you can teach them something because they're just at that point where they can't be receptive of every of anything. You literally just have to get them to calm down, yeah, and then give them that teaching of moment of like why they can't have this right now or whatever it may be. And um that's a hard thing to try to realize. It's just you know, you want to explain to them because you want them to understand so bad, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Yeah, like this for your own good, like trust me. They don't care at that moment, and like they don't they don't care, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

So that's one thing I learned is just to when he's in that moment. I just was telling um his BCBA that like I've learned when he gets so worked up that and he's like wanting to headbang, I kind of just like grab his face because almost like when he they like that comp that pressure. Yeah. So when he does that, I just kind of grab his face and help like help help him squeeze and and then like squeeze his arms and just give him a big, you know, hug and just give him that pressure and let him like squeeze his frustration out instead of banging, biting, whatever it is. But you know, even that's hard. And sometimes he just wants to thrash and throw himself on the ground, and now he's so big.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Like as they get older, it's so much harder because they weigh so much and try not to let him fall on the ground and bang his head and yeah, and it's like unfortunately, I feel like that's like those things are probably something that if they do go away or like it become less tense, it'll be a while from now because just the way they're they're wired, they're still trying to regulate and and figure it out. So I mean when I was five, he was with repetition because every meltdown is different, different, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

And when Jackson was five, he was you know having the meltdowns too, so it's like he's just he's turning eight, so it's like a long time of this, and we still have probably many more years to go, you know. They're probably gonna still have trouble and meltdowns, and I know some adults on the spectrum where they talk about they still have their meltdowns, it just looks different, but they still are gonna have them, you know. For sure. It's just how do we get them to regulate those feelings in a safe way that they can release that emotion but not hurt themselves or others. That's the tricky part, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Exactly. And then it's like that's when like the mom guilt comes in because it's like, well, I don't know what to do, and I'm like I'm getting frustrated. Frustrated.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

I know it's so hard, and then try it's so hard to regulate our emotions because some days, especially I can't imagine with your hormones right now, too, of like you're exhausted already from being pregnant, you know, and then same with me, like Jackson hasn't slapped, so then I'm exhausted, and then he's having a meltdown. I'm like, I'm just so tired, and you want to help them, and you're not uh able to help them, or you're and like with Jackson and him not being verbal, I'm like, I wish I knew what you were saying, and I can't help you. You feel helpless, and you feel like, yeah, they said that mom guilt, it's just because you want to be able to fix things and make your kid not be upset, right? It's hard to see them that way.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Yeah, it can definitely for Kai, because he has so much speech now, become like very argumentative, like like brother. I'm like, oh Lord, like you have to listen. No, you have to listen.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Oh, you're like, oh shoot.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

I'm like, okay, well, uh, since you're being mean, like I can't talk to you right now, and then he gets mad because you don't want to talk to him, and I'm like And then he's probably just saying he's probably just saying words, right? Because he's frustrated and they're coming across hurtful, but you know he doesn't really mean it, but right, like he doesn't know what he's saying, it's just a whole bunch of stuff that he's like like heard and is like mashing together.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Yeah, it's they both have their own challenges, verbal or not. They both have uh gosh, it's I I am like if any moms are out there have any good tips, please let us know. Um yeah, so we'll definitely have to look and see if there's some classes, you know. And I talked to Jackson's ECBA about you know his meltdowns behaviors and kind of the things that I do already is what they kind of do too, is just calm him down in those moments. And yeah, and it's it's like you almost have to think about what caused the meltdown, and then try to teach them like uh use that as like a moment to go, okay, this is why he had a meltdown. I gotta teach him when he's not upset about that moment and what to do or what not to do. But it's like uh that's so hard because then sometimes you don't know when those moments are gonna come up, or how do you teach them, you know, because they don't understand, and you can't teach them in the moment because they're not gonna reset. So it's exactly it's a balance that is just not easy.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Yeah, like with Kai when it comes to like problem solving, when he's not a um like having a meltdown, and I'm able to catch it right before um of him. Like, I guess something's not going his way uh in whatever he's doing, and I'll be like, okay, well let's try, let's try something different, like a different route to maybe like manipulate the the situation to get the outcome that you want. But sometimes it's just like the flip of a switch to where he's like already like I've had it, it didn't work the first time and then they want to give up. I'm like, okay, let's try something different, and he's already like over it, and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

I don't I think I think individuals on the spectrum, younger or older, have that struggle of something doesn't work the first time. There's no like let's try another way. It's I give up, it didn't work, it's you know, but it's just a process that their brain it takes a while for them to understand that that's how things can you know get better or fix it or how to figure it out. They just don't really have that. Some do, some may not, you know.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

That's why it's a spectrum, exactly. Yeah, oh Lori. The struggle is it can be real, very yeah, very real.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Yeah, and uh Jackson's last day of ABA is Thursday, and so I'm like freaking out a little bit because I'm like, how is this change gonna happen like how it's gonna, you know, I'm just stressing because I'm like, all right, he's so used to that place. He's been there for three years. Now he's gonna start a new place. We're gonna meet the teacher on Tuesday. And so that'll be his next time seeing the the school. And I don't know if I mentioned this before on the podcast, but he's gonna be starting an autism private school. Um, we decided that that was the wrap for him. Public school out here in Arizona is just not ideal, and he's just so far behind. And I'm so happy with our choice because we loved it, but still, that fear of something new, it's gonna be completely different. Yeah, because ABA is one-on-one. He's not gonna have that one-on-one, it's a smaller classroom ratio, but he's not gonna have that one-on-one anymore. And man, I am like trying to stay strong and not let him sense my uh anxiety about it, but you know they're pretty. Yeah, I might like ball my eyes out Thursday and just you know, just because I appreciate everything the ABA Center has done for him and the progress he's made, and um but it's the emotion of tears of joy and appreciation. Sad to say goodbye to all of them because they're great, and then also the crying of the fear of the unknown that's coming.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Yes, exactly. And it's I almost feel exactly how you feel in a way, because he's going into kindergarten. Yeah, he's been through three years of developmental preschool, and we just had our meeting with like the special needs um the administration and everything of whether or not he's gonna get an IEP for kindergarten. So it's like he doesn't get his IEP for kindergarten and like I don't want him to be labeled as a behavioral child and have to keep coming to pick him up and things because they're not gonna work with him because he's not gonna have his IEP, so he's not gonna have his therapists there for those meltdowns. So then I'm thinking, well, if that becomes the case, do I move him to an autism school and everything? But he's been at the same school for three years, so it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

That's crazy. Both of our boys are tr are going through a transition this year. Yeah. I mean, they're both at that age where it is time for them to go through those transitions, and it's yeah, hard. But know that that you know, the autism schools, I mean that it'd be nice if you got into uh Arizona autism.

unknown 33:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Right on the corner from you.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Exactly, right there.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

It's literally right there. But yeah, I mean, know that those options are there for him. And it I'm proud of you for wanting to give him that chance to go to a you know, stay in public school with those resources for him because with him being verbal, I feel like that's you know a good a good chance it could be successful, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Yeah, for sure. I feel like as long as he like has those therapists with him, then it'll be yeah fine. But the second that they're there, then the because the teacher they can't like stop the class for one child, so they're gonna have to remove him. Yeah. So it's it's literally a wait and see what these this next five months is is gonna be. Yeah, it's nerve-wracking. And this he also has his evaluation for alt text again at six to redeter. Had a hard time the first time. Uh, did you twice? Yeah, he because I wanted to.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

I feel like the kids that are verbal, they have a harder chance, harder time, right? Because it's like you don't always see their challenges.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Exactly. Yeah, the first time he was denied by three points, and he wasn't even verbal yet. So it's like really and I even work.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Well, because he's because he's got he's got some good intellect with like reading and those kinds of things, but when it comes to social and everything, it's like night and day. Yeah, it's like if you that's one thing I like about when you get diagnosed, they spend more than just an hour with them, right? Yeah, you know, it's like because they know, and it should be the same way when you're going through those assessments and reevaluations for alt text, like spend three or four hours with my child, and you will see, like exactly that's oh you caught them on a good bad thing, like yeah, it shouldn't have to be like that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

But yeah, it's like what can you do except for like pray that everything goes fine, and you know, just provide, I guess, as much uh you know, documentation that they need, and uh it's oh it's just so hard.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

I'm trying to remember what we what happened when he was six. We were during treatment, so I feel like that was just a blur. Yeah, I think we were just done with treatment. Yeah, yeah, and I'm trying to remember, but um yeah, I feel like we had. Are they gonna have to do like they do in a virtual assessment, right? Or is it in person?

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Um I think it's gonna have to be in person. I think they're doing in person now. Back um see like how he is.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

I think when we did it, it was virtual, but like I said, it was clear, like for Jackson, it you can just tell right away.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

So yeah, so if it's in person, his diagnosis, so why is why would you like take him off of all?

SPEAKER_01 37:02

I feel like if you have that diagnosis, you shouldn't have to be re-evaluated. But they do what three, six, and then after six, it's like 13, either 13, 30 or 15, something like that. Yeah. So that's that's the best stretch right there. It's like you don't you can be stress-free from six until like you know, for like 10 years, but that three to six, because a lot of kids do, you know, from three to six, they can uh develop and change a lot. Um, but if he's having those meltdowns and stuff like that, then um, you know, hopefully they will understand that they may not see it, but hopefully they would take your word for it. And let's be real, like we're not gonna lie that our child has got aggressive behaviors. If they we don't, we'd rather them not have aggressive. Exactly. Believe me.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

When they don't, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

So you'll have to let me know. Maybe we'll have to talk about like that process, do a whole other episode where we talk about those processes of getting state benefits and what that looks like and the the stressors of it, and you know what to be prepared for when you are going getting ready for those things, because um it's a lot on us as the parents to go through all that stuff and oh yeah, especially like when you've been used to him having services, and then I almost feel like it's more stressful, like the redetermination, because yeah, there's so many what ifs of it's like they're not gonna understand.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Like, yes, there has been progress, but there has also been setbacks and different things that are different ways in different areas, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Yeah, so it's speaking of uh access alt text renewals. Um, for those in other states, that's our Medicaid. I'm guessing other states have their form of Medicaid too. Um I don't know if I've told you this. I think I might have briefly told you this. Um people know, some people don't. I have been quite hush about it with all the politics going on in this world, but uh Jackson's social security number has been stolen was stolen. Did I tell you about that? I didn't tell you about all that. So when he was uh two, going to be three, um, and we were going through the process. Uh I remember seeing on the paperwork that they showed he was receiving income. And I'm like looking at I'm like, what? And then I remember telling them, I go, that's not correct. I mean, he's almost three, like, there's no way he can have work, whatever. Like, you know, and they go, Okay, thank you for letting us know. We'll mark the, you know. So me just thinking, okay, I'm talking to a government agency that they would take care of it. Yeah. No. When it was time for him to uh at six, maybe this is why I don't remember. Maybe it was, yeah, when it was no, because it was four years, six, seven, no, yeah. So that was when he was like two, that's what it was. Then the next year when he turned three, we're going through it, I saw it on there again. And I was like, I told, I was like, hey, I told you guys last year about this, and they go, did you report it? And I'm like, oh, I have to report it, like right. I I'm so new to all this, and so they're like, Yeah, you have to report it to Social Security. And I'm like, Oh, I thought that you guys would be reporting it because you're the ones who are running everything, right? Exactly. No, I had to um I went down to the social security office, and then when I got there, this was all a learning process for me, right? I think, okay, I just tell the social security, they take care of it. No, that's not the case. I went down there, had it made an appointment for them just to tell me, did you file a pre a police report?

SPEAKER_02 41:46

The whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

I had to file a police report. So, and I was like, but this so the person um is from another state using Jackson's social security number for employment. And then um, yeah, so I had to file a police report with the city I lived in, and then they would take all the information and then send that to the city or county or wherever that that was taking place in. So at the time they told me that I had to go to someplace in Arkansas because I don't know, because oh, on the paperwork from Axis it said the name of the company and then it said like the abbreviations for Arkansas because they had a location there. So then I talked to someone, a police officer or a detective there and told them what was going on, and then they said they would take care of it. I called the company themselves, talked to the people in HR, and provided them like with an email proof of this. Like I gave them a copy of the access paperwork where it shows their income and it shows the name of the company and the amount uh that they're receiving, and I sent them a copy of my business on social. The company said they would take care of it. What do you think happened? Still still on there. You've got hard my language. I was like, You've got to be effing kidding me. And I I called them up and no, I emailed the person that I talked to before and I said, Why is this guy still working there? With my son's social security number, right? Didn't receive any. I gave it a week, no email back. Called him up. The lady had no idea that I was talking what I was talking about because she wasn't there what three, four years prior. So then they sent me to, I guess, the HR director, I think it was. And I'm regretting now not recording the call. This fool admitted, he was like, Yeah, I was here. And I was like, I was screaming at him. I was like, why the are you allowing this guy to continue to work there when I gave you proof four years ago that he's using my son's social security number? And he's like, Well, he said this, and I said, I don't care. I give you legal documentation proving this. And I said, Did you not obtain his social a copy of his social security card when you hired him? No, we don't always do that. I was like, but you just take their word for it when they write it down.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

I was like, I I worked in fields where I'm a super like and I take like help with the hiring process, right? And collecting all the paperwork. If they don't give us a copy of their social security card, it's gotta be a passport at least. Yeah. If he gave the and I asked him, did he give you a passport? No. And I was like, then you have no legal documentation proving that that's his social security number. I laid into this guy and I said, you watch out because I was like, I said, I'm gonna be, I said there's gonna be hell to pay. And he was just like, he didn't care. He clearly did not care. And um I remember then calling the police department and my city, and I got a new detective this time, and I told him what happened. And this detective was pissed. He was like, man, he's like, that is not okay. And he's like, let me, um, he's like, let's. I told him what happened with like the crossover between the other state. And he said, you know what? No, we're gonna go, because if they're based out of Idaho, and they, you know, they have locations all over. And so he's like, no, we're going to where headquarters is at, and you're gonna we're gonna get a detective from there, like that where that county is at. And then once I got that, that detective, too, he was like, oh no, he's like, this is nope. He's like, I will be going down there this week myself to headquarters.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

And um, because the fact that they knew of it, I think it's because like the first time was like their warning, right? But the fact that they knew about it, and I remember him emailing me back and saying he was just like, wow, they really don't care. Yeah, he was just like, he's still working there, and uh he's like, Yeah, he was still working there. This was a year ago, and so he was when all this happened again, and he was like, the detective was just like, I can't believe he's still working there. And so he told me he had to pass it on to um a federal level, so he had to pass it to Homeland Security. Oh wow, because and this is why, as you can tell, with everything going on, this has been a touchy subject, so that's why I don't talk about it. But he had to get Homeland Security involved because it wasn't an illegal citizen, illegal person using my son's social, and um, so it was just this constant battle of you know, whatever. And then I was trying to get updates from from him from Homeland Security, and it was just like not really getting information. And then I remember at one point, I think this was about five months ago, he said um Homeland told him it's way bigger than just that guy. Said it's a way, it's a way bigger case than just the one in one scenario. And I was like, oh, okay. So I kind of let things like settle, the holidays happened, and then on February I was like, hey, and then with everything going on in the country, I was curious if they got raided, right? Because I'm like with ice and all that stuff, um, he's like, no, but I he found out the detective found out that the employer fled before he could get arrested. Wow, he almost got detained, but he fled. Um, and the company didn't fire him, he he fled. Like they weren't gonna fire him. And so I asked the detective, I said, Is there I was like, Do you know if there's any legal action that I can take against this company? Um, he's like, I can't provide you with legal advice, but he's like, I would sure have try if I were you. So then I didn't tell you this recently, this was like a couple weeks ago, I reached out to the district attorney office of Idaho. I they can't they can't do anything. I have to file a civil lawsuit. Like how?

SPEAKER_00 49:38

How do you think that's a good idea?

SPEAKER_01 49:40

How do I have to file civil lawsuit? Like they did something illegal. How is and they didn't get back to me. I asked them in the email. I said, how is this not a um legal issue? Like they allowed someone to, but I guess it's because it depend homeland security didn't it was up to them, I guess, to do legal action against Idaho. But for me to file, I guess, file a complaint against them of what they did, it has to be a civil lawsuit. And so now my next thing is like, do I try to find someone that can take this pro bono and see what I can get? Because this guy worked there for six years income with my son's social security number, and his paychecks were thirteen hundred dollars every two weeks. Oh wow, yeah. So, like, you know, so I'm like, heck, if I could get something out of this, but um, so now it's just a project that I gotta do to try to figure out how to um try to find a lawyer and in do I have to get one in Idaho or do I have to get one here, you know? Right. I'm like that's crazy, right? Yeah, so I've been hush-hush about it, but it's time like that I want to share what happened because I've heard another autism mom talking about her daughter's social security number being stolen too. And I'm sure it happens to other kids on the spectrum, but it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

Oh yeah, you would think that they would do something more known.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Right. If I wasn't if Jackson wasn't uh on the spectrum and needing to get all tech, you know, uh Medicaid services, I wouldn't have known.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

Thank God for that. Because you know, that guy could have been employed getting employment until the Jackson was 18, and then all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Oh yeah, and who else knows what it's only down here, like credit cards and well, so and that's the thing too.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

When I found that out, I had to report to the IRS to see if he was filing um, if he was getting tax returns.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Um, I had to file with all the credit bureaus to see, you know, and then I had to I had to do so much, and that's another thing too, is I want to see if I can you know have a case because I had to do so much because they let him do all that, like all the shit that I had to take care of.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

Yeah, like knowingly let him also, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

But yeah, so any lawyers are listening, please. I I would like some help.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Yeah, it's like it's like I feel like you have a line of people that you need lawsuits on, like it's yeah, it's so crazy.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yeah. Do you do you still work for legal shield or no? You're still involved? No, okay. I don't even know if that like that company would have been able to even help me. Maybe not.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

Probably not. I don't think they would have had any case pro bono or anything.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

Oh, yeah, yeah. I do one pageant friend or one pageant girl that I know, she's a lawyer, but she does family law. She sent me someone that could possibly help, so I just gotta email them and reach out to them and see if they have any advice or whatnot. But you know, it's like, yeah, I can take it pro bono, but if I get a significant amount from them, like we could, you know, request like a certain amount of money that we could get from the company for what happened, yeah. You know, then I was like, then that will give you some money out of that, like yeah, but I feel like a lawyer would know like what we could get out of it. Um I'm gonna go ahead and just freaking say the name of the company because I I'm so pissed. It's called Idaho Timber. And so if anyone knows them, watch out.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

Right, because shit's coming. Like that that's happening too in just that company for them to not be doing something about it.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

If if the detective said that it was a bigger, it was significant more than just my son, or it was a bigger case than just my son, then clearly there were along a few others, you know.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:18

Um, but if anyone out there uh listening and your child's social security number is definitely being used for employment, see what you can do because it's not right, especially if they knew about it. Exactly. Yeah, so like it's like telling them how would you feel if it was your child? Like that's an invasion of their private, you know. It's just exactly, and he's not even old enough to work, so yeah, he was three when it's I'm like, how and how do you how how do they just make up a social note? I'm like, how do that how does that happen? It blows my mind.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

How do they know what in the numbers and see? Oh, that is a person, okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Like, oh, they're they're under the age of 18. I can use this for 18 years, right? It's so crazy. Maybe I don't know. Crazy, but yeah, so that's all going on on top of everything else.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

Well, I did they're able to do something.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Yeah, I did, yeah. I did talk to, so I called the the Glendale, it was Glendale Police Department. I called the detective back because I remember this was like last month. He asked, he wanted to know the outcome. He's like, you have to keep me updated on what happens. So I called him up and I told him, and he was like, that is insane. And then I told him, I said, I have another legal question for you. So I brought up what we talked about last time about that pastor. Yeah. And he said, he's like, unfortunately, legally, you could probably if you would take if someone would take you pro bono, but most likely people won't, because it's such a touchy subject with it being like church, right? Separation of church and state. But he said if um he didn't, you know, lay hands on him, but if he left like a bruise or or something like that, I would have I would have had a case if he left like some type of injury to him. Um, so that makes sense. Yeah. But you know, I'm just glad I got it out there, and hopefully other people um have heard it and had, you know, listened and or you know, other people that are in that situation find some type of way to remove themselves from that type of environment. But yeah, I was just curious if I could press any charges against them. Legally, there's nothing, but yeah, it's always good to ask questions. You don't know if you don't so yeah, and the detective is really nice about it. He's like, he was like, dang, he's like, I wish I had better news for you, but he's like just being honest. And I said, I'm glad you were honest, like, because I need to know. Like, I would rather you tell me now than me try to go through that whole filing a police report and then it be nothing, you know. Yeah, exactly. And he's like, and then it's even harder because the pastor's not even here, he is in Texas but comes here, so he's like, that's even more of a challenge. And I'm like, I figured.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

Um, you know, it is what it is, but I'm just glad that that's all done and over with. But hopefully I'll have a good outcome with uh this, and maybe we could get a good amount of money. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

Oh, for sure. Yeah, that's a long time. A long time.

SPEAKER_01 58:04

That's a lot of money that he earned.

SPEAKER_00 58:06

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 58:07

Yeah. Falsely using Jackson's social. So yeah, and it just pissed me off that. I feel like, and that's why I told I asked the detective, I was like, he's like, don't contact the company anymore. Because you could, you know what I mean? Because I thought about I was like told the detective, I was like, I'm tempted to reach out to like to the CEO. Did anyone talk to the CEO and tell the CEO what was happening? Or did you just talk to them HR department? Like exactly. So, but he couldn't tell me what Homeland Security was doing. So you know, but me, I'm like, I work in those fields. I'm like, you know, I'm like, no one talked to the CEO unless the CEO didn't care. I don't know. Or they kept it hid it, or they kept it hidden from them. Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 58:54

Right. Like they don't want to go through that either. Like it's reputation and craziness.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

Yeah. All right. Well, we're probably getting close to wrapping it up. I had a question for you. So I know we've talked about how I don't, you know, I I have made the decision not to have another kid because my worry too is hindering Jackson's development. But also my worry in my mind as well, and I'm wondering if you have thought about this, is what if your other child has autism as well?

SPEAKER_00 59:32

That's what I was wondering.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Yeah, I'm like, how I was thinking about that. I'm like, how are you feeling about all that? Is that like kind of stressful, worrisome?

SPEAKER_00 59:44

Um, it's come across to my mind.

unknown 59:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:48

But then it's like at that at that case, the only common denominator is me. So it's like, oh, so do I need to go and take a test?

SPEAKER_01 59:57

Yeah. But it doesn't mean that you could, you know, it doesn't mean that you are on the spectrum, but just someone in your family could be, you know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

Yeah. But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

So it'd be interesting to see, right? And then because I can't imagine like you know, having two on the spectrum, and right, yeah, but then it would also be pretty neat to see how different two of your children can be.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

And man, I just I was just ages different, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

But luckily Kai is excited and to be a brother, and he's you know what I mean, he's gonna be such a loving um sibling that no matter the outcome, whether the child ends up having autism or not, he's got a good brother to look up to, and you know. Yeah. I was thinking about that last night. I was like, oh, that was always my thought because I'm pretty sure if I did, right, they the chances of my child having um autism probably a lot higher since I feel like it's genetic. Um but with me not being on the spectrum, I'm like, maybe, so who knows?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

Yeah, it's like you never know till you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

No, yeah, but I know I've seen other families who have um you know multiple children and only one or have it out of like five. So you know, you know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. Whatever God's plan is will be, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

Oh yes, he's the only one that knows.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:43

Yep, he puts the things on our plate for a reason. Nothing we can do. All right, dear. Yep, yeah. Well, this was a great discussion. I hope others other moms they probably relate the same about the struggles of how to discipline, how to teach. And I know that word discipline is probably not the best terms, but because you want I could for me, disciplining means telling them no, you know, that's that's like discipline, teaching and discipline. So yeah, because you know, some people hear discipline and they think like spanking is that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about telling them no, and if they're not listening, how to redirect them to you know, if they you tell them to go somewhere and they're not listening, how do you get them to listen? You teach them, but you're also disciplining them at the same time. So it's not easy, and uh, I'm sure a lot of parents and guardians feel the same way on that balance, it's tricky, yeah, for sure. And having a tantrum escalate into a meltdown most of the time, I would say 90 for me. I feel like 90% of the time, if not more, the tantrums turn into meltdowns. Most of the time, I'm sometimes he can calm down and not get there, but sometimes when he's hangry, really wants something, yeah, it's kind of good.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

Exactly. Kind of just gotta work through it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:21

For instance, the swimming pool is our big one right now. Because that's his favorite thing to do, and doesn't want to get out. That he does pretty good after an hour of getting out. It's just wanting to go when he is not able to go. Yeah, like Christmas time was a challenge because we went to a cousin's house who had a pool and it's winter time. He wouldn't understand that because my parents have a heated pool and he can swim all the time over there, so he doesn't understand that he can't, and so those things they just our kiddos just don't understand, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

Like maybe one day, but that's not today, not today, and not tomorrow, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:15

Well, everyone, thanks for tuning in. And uh, we've got guests lined up all the way until June, mid-June, and that's when we're gonna be ending this season and taking a break so MJ can enjoy her new little one. Yay, yay, and then we'll start planning um for more people to come on after we maybe take like a month or so off, and yeah. So thanks everyone. All right, thank you. Stay tuned for more episodes. We've got um April, we're doing all individuals on the spectrum, and then in May, we're gonna do all moms, and then part of June, we're gonna have some dads on, including my husband. So he's gonna be excited to come on.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:07

Cannot wait.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

That's just awesome. Yeah, yeah. So we need a few more dads. So any dads out there, if you're interested, please contact us. Uh, I think we need probably two, two more.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:20

So if you guys want to nominate someone to be yes, please do. Please do.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

All right, MJ. Thanks, girl. Get some rest today. Of course, you too. All right, thanks. Bye, you guys. We would like to give a shout out to our graphic design sponsor, MySpot Design. Do you need a standout graphic design or seamless website solutions for your brand? My Spot specializes in custom logos, promo materials. Plus professional website design and ongoing maintenance. Elevate your online presence today. Reach out at contact at myspot.design or go to myspot.design for more info. Thank you so much, owner Lindsay, for helping us out. We appreciate you.