S1 Episode 21 - Sabrina Kearney: Part Two

*Mom& Daughter: Navigating Autism Together*

Don’t miss Part Two of our conversation with Sabrina Kearney this Thursday at 1PM Arizona time! 

Sabrina opens up about her pageantry journey and the extra challenges she faced while competing due to sensory sensitivities. Her story is such a powerful reminder that autism can look different for everyone, and that individuals on the spectrum can still pursue their dreams and passions. 

She also shares about reconnecting and remarrying her first husband, along with heartfelt advice for other parents navigating autism and family life.

This episode is full of honesty, encouragement, and inspiration you won’t want to miss! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:09

All right, hi listeners. We are back for part two with Sabrina. Thank you so much for joining us again. Thank you for having me. Yay! And right now MJ uh had a busy day, so she may not be able to join us, but she had an appointment for her baby checkup. She's due very soon. We're so excited for her. So she may join us, she may not, but she sends her love. Um and we're gonna hop right in. You ready, Sabrina? Whatever it is. So let's talk a little bit about how we met. We met through pageantry. And um you were competing in Miss Arizona for America's strong when we met, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Um, actually, no, I think I met you before that when I years ago when I did um United States. Yes, yes, that's right. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Um my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Feels like it was like just yesterday, but it was so long ago.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Like 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yeah, like when I first moved out here. Yeah, it was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Um holy cow.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

But yeah, um, we met through pageantry, um, which wasn't something I originally ever wanted to do or ever thought I could do. And then one day I decided I was like, why not? Um, and I mostly did it because um also because of um the uh social struggles I've had over my over the years because of my aunt's. Um I didn't have a lot of friends.

unknown 1:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Um, like just growing up in general. And then when I moved out here, we didn't know anybody. Um to meet people, right? Yeah. And so I was like, well, I think this will be a fun way to like get out of my show. And I've seen them before, and like it'll be fun. Um, and I went there, I made some really good friends. I met you. Um, I met a woman named Brooke, who that year she was Mrs. West Valley, and actually in my phone, I still have her saved as Mrs. West Valley.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

I have I have contacts in my phone that are saved the same too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Um, but yeah, and it actually ended up being great because now we're like the best of friends. She was um the maid of honor at my wedding recently. Um, so yeah, you meet a lot of people through pageantry. But um, in in that journey, it was really interesting because when I started, I didn't know that I had autism. So the my awkwardness and stuff was just me. And then when I started pageantry, I didn't do very well. But a lot of it had to do with the fact that I was masking so much and trying to like, oh, this is the way that a pageant girl is supposed to act, and this is how they're supposed to respond.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Like we talked about before how girls are good at that, huh?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Yeah. And so I would try to be like, oh, okay, well, if I want to do well, then I have to be like these other pageant girls. And so I was doing poorly failing at being somebody else rather than being myself.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

And then like the judges saw that.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah, I think so. Because I also was nervous too.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

And I feel like that goes with a lot of pageant women. Like if you're not truly yourself, they can tell.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yeah, but I was extra not myself because I've always been like self-conscious about not saying the right thing or being awkward. Um actually kind of sometimes myself even more awkward by trying too hard not to be awkward. But it's like eventually I started like as I was doing the patents, starting to get more used to me and like who am I? What do I stand for? And the more I started forgetting about what everybody else was doing and just focused on being the best version of me, even though the best version of me is awkward and says the wrong things, still to go out there and present that, like, hey, this is me. If I'm not the right title holder for you, then great. But I'm I got tired of like good for you being somebody else and doing and like, well, if you're not yourself, you're gonna do that. So that helped me grow a lot. And then I told you I met a lady who um was competing in a different pageant that was on the spectrum, and that really changed my life in terms of not so much changed who I am, but helped me to see myself better and to get a formal diagnosis and to help me realize there's a reason why I'm so awkward in all these situations. And think about if you didn't do pageantry, you may not have never probably never gone and gotten a diagnosis, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Yeah, God just has things planned for you, and you know, and it's just looking back at our lives, and we can see those routes we took and how those little things that we did led us to where we are, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah, and I honestly I I am of the belief that there are no coincidences in this life. Like everything that you go through, good, bad, indifferent, happens to you for a reason, and then you get the opportunity. Like, yeah, in the moment it could suck really bad. And actually, a lot of times in my life it did suck really bad, but looking back on it, it's like you can see those things as a challenge or you can see them as an opportunity to okay, learn from it. Like, okay, this was crappy, but what's one thing I can learn from this to like use when I move forward? So yeah, I think it it's all it all works together, um and it doesn't make sense sometimes when it happens, but later on you see the benefits of it.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

So yeah, so true. Now, when you first started pageantry, so you started in the United States.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Actually, the first one, very, the very, very, very first one I did, I signed up for the Mrs. Maryland America pageant when I still lived back east. Oh wow, and I and I was a local title holder and did some appearances and things and some fundraising. But that's when I was pregnant with um with EJ. When I got pregnant, oh I found out in the middle of that I was pregnant with EJ. And by the time when you were on stage, were you already? I didn't do it because I was already I was already nervous about the pageant in general. Because it's like really like outside of my box. And by the time we got there, I was like huge. Yeah, like there's no way there's some women who have rocked it, and that's the cool thing. I've seen them do that, and I'm like, I wish I was that confident.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

That's the cool thing about the missus division, is you can compete if you choose to, you know?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Yeah, but that just wasn't the choice for me at that time, and my confidence level was not that that big. Like nowadays, if I was pregnant and want to do a pageant, I probably would go on stage. But back then, that was a very different Sabrina, and that was not even an option. So um, they ended up holding that money so I can do it the next year, but then my job transferred me to Wyoming. I got a new job in Wyoming, and I ended up uh using that money. Um, the director there let me use some of it towards the Wyoming pageant.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

And so yeah, and so that was my very first one was the Wyoming pageant.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

In Wyoming, you actually did build a change.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Yeah, yes, I did, and it was so terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

And how old was EJ?

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Oh my gosh, she was little, little. She was like how was that like a year and a half? Wow.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

That was how was that competing with that uh a a child that young?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Was it challenging, you know, with what I was because I was working, um, but I worked I worked shift work at a satellite updating center. So I had the kind of pretty flexible schedule. It was like three months you were on night shift, three months you were on day shift. Oh, okay. So it actually really worked out in like trying to balance work and then uh balancing, like working with doing stuff with her. And then at the time I was married. Um, and so my husband would help a little bit, and then I would like do walking practice and stuff. So it was hard to juggle, yeah. Especially being a new parent, and then a new parent of a kid, a child who like she didn't really make a lot of sound. Right. That's when you were starting to notice those signs. The only sounds that she would make is if she was crying because apparently we missed whatever signal she was trying to give us that she's hungry or whatever. So it's really hard to tell what she wanted. And so, like, I'll hand uh high five to my husband at the time because he was able to like wrangle her, keep her busy and keep her calm and everything. Wow. Um, and it worked out really well. That's great. Um, and so the things I learned from that is one, just because I thought just because you had, and I didn't really know what patterns were about. I thought it was just about being pretty.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Right. Well, but like when you first go into it, unless if you like don't hear from other people, that's what you automatically think, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Yeah. And so I'm like, I have this pretty nice, I have this really pretty dress, I got my hair done on nice, I have the fancy makeup. Like, this is totally fine. Um, and I think I did, I thought I did okay in interview. Um, I did horrible in interview. Um, because I never had pageants it's hard at that point. And so I really liked their feedback.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Oh good.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Like which the judges really liked me, but they just said I just needed to like work on interview skills, work a little bit more like isolation. Yeah, that yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Which they could which if you probably if you would have known back then that yeah, I would have put more diagnosis, you could have prepared for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

I basically waited like three weeks before the pageant to work on like interview skills because I was like, oh, I've done interviews for jobs, it's no big deal.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot different than we think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Um, but it was really fun. And I made a couple friends there um as well. And then I wasn't gonna do any more again until I moved here, and I was like, okay, well, maybe I'll do another one. And so that's you got that itch. It was fun because there was so even though it was terrifying and scary for me, um, and it was and the stage for me, the stage lights and everything and how loud the music is, is very overstimulating.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

I was just gonna ask you. And it's always been like that.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah. So eve because um the it's it's super bright, it's super loud, it's very distracting. Oh gosh, yeah. Um, especially at national, like I had like I was able to get through it pretty okay on like normal stages, but I also I always keep fidget toys. I always get dresses with pockets. Ooh, nice and I keep fidget toys in them. And so like I'll play with the fidget while I'm backstage waiting.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Um, so that and I kind of I don't I want to actually kind of be away from people at that point because it's just so much, but I don't want to appear like antisocial, so I kind of stand near the other girls and I just play with the fidgets in my pocket.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Um, and then when it's time to go out on stage, I'm you're supposed to like look out at the people and look at the judges. The great thing is you can't after the first two rows, you can't really see anybody. Look. I know. So what I've done over the years is, and even at work, when I give presentations, I don't, they're like, make eye contact, make eye contact. I'm like, nope, not happening. But what I do instead is I look at people's ears.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Oh, you're gonna hear all the tricks.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Um, it's I've had quite some time to develop them, I guess. You look at I look at their ear. So it kind of looks like you're looking at the looks like you're looking at their face, yes. Yes. So I look at ears. Um, sometimes I'll look at people's forehead. Um so I look like in the vicinity of your face, but I'm not looking at your face. Yeah. Um, so that's what I do when I'm on stage. Like I look and when I look at the judges, I'm like, oh, pretty ear, pretty ear, pretty ear, pretty ear. Oh, look at the crowd, pretty ear, pretty ear, pretty ear. I leave the stage. So yeah, I've had to come up with like little tricks to help me one, not get too overstimulated by everything going on, but then also how to like go out there and look poised, even though inside I'm like freaking out and just like look at everybody. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Oh, I bet. So listen it was I'm gonna tell them, yeah. You went to nationals because so you did United States, but then just in the past, I want to say, what was it like four years ago, three years ago? You were uh you won the title of Miss Arizona for America Strong and went to Vegas for Nationals. So it's in Vegas of all places. Talk about overstimulation there too.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

But when the hotel lobby was overstimulating for me.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

At that hotel at uh what is it? Um the Westgate. Westgate, yeah. It's kind of crazy. I mean, all of them are, but that one's pretty hectic. So props to you. I mean, clearly, you know, what you the tools that are you're using worked because you won that title and uh of you know, the Arizona title and went on to national. So I was so happy. I was so dang proud. Um you look stunning. You did an amazing job. I obviously I couldn't tell that you were, you know, have you know those kind of moments that you're going through in your head, it didn't show.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

So I'm I'm glad it looked because I didn't notice. I'm glad it looked like everything was fine, like from outside looking in. But inside, I was like terrified. And honestly, it was too loud and all these things.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

I didn't even I didn't even really um think about the fact that you might be, you know, uh have autism as well. I was like, huh, maybe, but nothing like warm like, oh yeah, because you you know, you start learning as you see people in this world. Yes, you know, you're kind of like they might be on the spectrum, they might be on the spectrum. I kind of was like, she could be, but you know, not so I was kind of like, oh wow, when you told me. So girl, you're rocking it. You're doing a great job. So let's talk a little bit about um when you competed at United States. Did you have a platform then? And then versus when you did Miss Um Arizona for America Strong, did you have a different platform? So talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

So I didn't have a I kind of had an idea of what I wanted to do. I wanted to be like inspirational. I wanted to talk about how like the circumstances in your life don't define you. Um, and how like every um obstacle thing that you think is an obstacle is like an opportunity to learn. Um that's and that's what my idea was in the beginning, but I didn't know how to articulate that to people. And I didn't know how to explain what it was. And then also with like the volunteer work I was doing um was all through like STEM education and stuff like that. So like I had trouble figuring out how to tie in the STEM education, kind of STEM education and like overcoming obstacles and things. And so it kind of evolved over time. Um, and then it was in I can't remember what year it was, my goodness. So in between the United States and America, um, I also competed in the um the American Elegance pageant in Chicago.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Oh, wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

And um they had a preliminary in Las Vegas, but it was like at a school, so it was like super little. So that wasn't as terrifying. I then I went to their national pageant. And as part of that pageant, you have to do something called a personal expression. And so you have you have oh gosh, I think it's like two minutes to say whatever it is you want to say about your platform or something of something related to your platform.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

And so um at that time, I decided um that I was gonna do I I write poetry on the side too. Um and so I was gonna write a poem about being a woman in STEM and what that's meant to me. And so I wrote that and I did that, and I actually ended up winning that part of the competition. Yay! Um, and so then once I did that, um, I I did and I placed um first runner up in my group. And the feedback from the judges was that like we kinda and then from other people on the staff were like, you know, you have a really like good start of your platform, and you just need to kind of like shape it and refine it. And then so then by the time I got to do America, um, I was more focused on what that is. So it's more of more focused, most more focused on the idea of overcoming obstacles and like not letting stuff define you, and like you can really like there's a light at the end of the tunnel, you just may not see it. And then one of the tools that can be used to help kids that are in situations that seem that it's like too much for them to overcome is to introduce them to STEM. Um, so I started working, I prior to that, I had already been volunteering with a group called the um SAE Foundation. And what they do is they provide resources for classrooms that are under underprivileged or under-resourced to have um extracurricular STEM um programs and activities that they can do. Like, for example, in Georgia, they work with Kia and they sponsor this huge competition where they they make these little jet toy cars with like how you make you make the car, and then there's a balloon you put and you like see whose car is the fastest.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Oh, that's so cool!

SPEAKER_01 17:31

And so here in Virginia, I got here in Virginia, in Arizona, I started working with them when I was in Gilbert, and this school was doing an after-school program and they needed volunteers, and I went and we were making cars out of like basically a box of like wooden dowels and little wooden wheels and stuff, and you had to make a car that ran off of pennies, and like you had to make a lever system and the pennies would go up and down and move the car. Um, and so that's how I started getting involved. But basically, what they're trying to do is find these areas that need resources because um they've been doing research in addition to this to show that, you know, when you introduce kids to STEM and science type activities, no matter what their career is going to be at the end, that's going to help them uh spark ideas and get interested in school and be like, you know, maybe they're not gonna be an engineer, but that's inspired them to do creative thinking or critical thinking and things like that. So that was how I linked everything together. Like, you know, you can overcome your obstacles even if you're may not be born into the best circumstances. And here's one of the ways that we can help people do that is through STEM education. And so over the years it just kind of evolved, and that's where we're at now.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Yeah. Wow. And speaking of, um, you asked me to be a speaker at one of your events.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Yeah. And that was I I owe you a CD, a DVD that I made of it. They're all here. Yes. Um, but that shows you my autism slash ADHD brain where I made all these things and all that, and I put it in a box. Okay, I'm gonna mail these.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

And meanwhile, it's going on in your life since then.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

So, you know, yeah, so I will get your DVD to you though. But yeah, I have it where it's like the full everybody, and then every section where it's just each individual person as well. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

So let's let's talk a little bit about that. So you did it, what is it? It was this is this is me or what was it?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Um so it was um called uh you, it was the I called it the you are more speaker series. There you go. And the goal was to, and then life happened, and I didn't have many more events after that because you know life is what it is. Um, but it's on my list to get back to because I think it's a really cool idea. Yes, um, I agree. But basically to have people who because like the whole thing is about you know overcoming obstacles and finding hope in in in that journey. And so we had four people come and talk. You spoke. Um, another title holder, I can't remember which pageant she was in, but her name is Laura Tromandong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

I still connected with her. I met her for the see, and this is good. Here we go again. We didn't even compete in the same system, but her and I talk all talk every now and then, and we met through your event. And oh my gosh, that's so cool. Right? Isn't that so cool? Because um, I think she was in the continental system. Um it's just it goes to show like we all we all had um something in our lives that impacted us in a certain way, and we all empathize with each other and could relate in some way, and we're all cut still connected, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Yep, and then um Danielle Radler spoke also. She was she I met her in um and the my first time doing the Mrs. Arizona America pageant. We were roommates at the hotel.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

And then her and I were roommates because we become friends. Yeah, because we became friends. I was in a different system then. I wasn't in America, I was in USOA. And um the two of you inspired me to go compete in America, and then she decided to compete again and we room together because we became friends because of you. So it's just right, it's just so amazing.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Cool, everything just comes full circle.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Yeah, and then you spoke as well, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:27

And I spoke as well. I kind of spoke like in between.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, you could either do uh more events like that or girl, do your own podcast.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

That's what my husband was saying. He's like, if she if like you have a friend that's doing podcasts, and you see I keep see people doing these video podcasts all the time. And so I think it's also why I have a poem book like that I wrote years ago. And it just looked on my computer and I filled out the forms to get a copyright for it, but that's all I did. Yeah. And then my mom. Found it and before she passed and she printed it out and she bound went to Kinkos and bound it. And when I was going through boxes in my garage uh recently, I found it again. And I was like, oh wow, this is that book thing. And so maybe one day I'll do that book, you know. But it's just sometimes I feel like I get but with how my brain works, like I overthink everything.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

And I always worry about like, oh, what about this? What about that? What about that? And sometimes you need to just do it. So who knows? Maybe this time next year.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

You never know. And I, you know, I feel like kind of real sometimes I wonder if I have a little ADHD because I'm like, I get all these great ideas and I want to do this and I want to do that and I want to do this. And it's like I start something and then I don't always finish it. Or, you know, it's just it's hard. We just God puts these wonderful ideas in our head, and sometimes it doesn't always come to light like we want.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

But yeah, that's very true. And that's like with um, so with me, it's more like exact I don't have an ADHD diagnosis, but I have trouble with executive function to the point where like it's like I I want to do the I've like identify what the task is, I want to do the task, I start the task. I'm like, oh, what could go wrong as I'm doing this task? What else could I be doing instead of this task?

SPEAKER_02 23:16

And then my brain And then you go off and down a rabbit hole, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Yeah, and then I'm like, and I'm doing this. I'm like, oh look, I need to sort through all my facts right now, this moment. And then that's what I do.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Okay, that's ADHD 100%. Have you have you heard of the comedian, uh what's his name, Drew something, and he had a stutter. Um he was on America's talent. And so he he's getting a divorce now, but his wife at the time when he made it big, uh, he would joke about her ADHD and how she would do things like that. She would start different things all through the house. And I'm like, oh my God, that's me. I'll be doing something, and then I go over here and do something else. And then wait, what was I doing?

SPEAKER_01 24:04

And then there's also the um with the functioning thing, it's like sometimes I'd have trouble doing even starting a task because it's like I want to do the task, but you know, I can't do the task because of whatever and I overthink it. But then I don't do the task, then I'm mad that I didn't do the task. So I should just do the task, but my brain won't let me do the task. Yeah, a lot of times when that kind of thing happens, and it's so frustrating. It doesn't happen so much at work because I'm really good, and I think I should maybe start doing this in my personal life. At work, I'm really good at making like this is my list of stuff I need to accomplish today.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

And like just I need to my work into my personal life, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Yes, I need to be as and my he makes fun of me because he's like, How are you this disorganized in life? But you're like crushing it at your job. Like, I don't understand. I'm like, it's different, it's different, it's very different.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

But also, I feel like it's a woman thing that we I hear a lot of women we struggle with all these tasks, especially around the house, right? Yes, because we're just like, I gotta do this, this, this, and then you just it I it's not uncommon, and I'm sure a lot of listeners can probably relate. If you're a lady, you probably can relate. Um so when you were competing uh for um Miss when you were a city title holder competing for the Arizona uh Miss Arizona America or Miss Arizona for America Strong pageant, did you have your diagnosis then?

SPEAKER_01 25:35

I did not. I did not have my official I had started telling somebody, but I did not have my official diagnosis until after passion tree? It was like no, it was like three weeks before I went to nationals is when I got my actual diagnosis.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

So when you were at nationals, do you feel like having that diagnosis helped you and be more um you know, help you figure out ways like you your your tools to help keep you, you know, or no?

SPEAKER_01 26:04

No, I had kind of developed those tools beforehand and actually finding out right before nationals actually made me more paranoid.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Oh no, about the opposite, yeah, about like doing stuff that's weird.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Like I like it's like I know I'm now I know I'm weird now. I know why I'm weird, and I'm like, oh I'm gonna be around all these, all these perfect ladies, don't mess up. So it was a little it was a lot more stressful.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Do you feel like that hindered your your the way you competed?

SPEAKER_01 26:29

No, I think I was so able, I was still competed as myself and still did my best. It's just in like the social parts where because we had to like be at rehearsal together and like people were getting off friendly and buddy buddy fit tatty.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

And I'm like, You probably don't want to come across like you're being like a stuck up project girl. You know, I can't imagine that struggle where you're like, I don't want to come across that I'm snooty and blah blah blah, you know, that typical girl, but it's not at the same time, I didn't want to deal with anybody.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

It's like I like I like what I like you guys, but and there was like a loud group, and then there was like the in between, and like we had us other, like a little bit older, like reserved ladies, like I still made some good friends and everything, but it just it was a lot socially to do, and then I'm awkward and I can't dance. And then I was super stressed about the open number stuff, yeah. And the two guys that that run the choreography, they're like so on it, and like especially at that national level with that organization. Oh yeah, it was a lot, and luckily I'm tall and like for the open number, they needed tall girls to stand on these risers and move their arms all sexy. So I was like, oh, send me. I can do that. Yeah, um, but there was a part in the beginning where we were on the floor and actually had to do some dance moves, and I was like, please don't put me in the front, please don't put me in the front. It's yeah. So it added a different level of complexity that I don't think I would have had if I would have gotten my diagnosis like after I got back.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Um but uh I still had a good time, I was still able to make it and everything. Um, but it was just it was just really funny timing.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Yeah, that is crazy timing. Do you feel like you um like with like the judges or in your interview or anything like that? Do you feel like you had you felt the need or did you uh talk about getting diagnosed at all? Or did you go, I didn't want to talk about it?

SPEAKER_01 28:30

I didn't necessarily not want to talk about it. I just wanted to like my strategy was because I was super nervous about it. My strategy was just to go in there and just have a conversation and see where the questions lead me to. And if it came up, I was gonna say something. Um, but it never came up. They wanted to learn more about like the STEM stuff.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Oh, cool. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Oh my gosh, I can talk about STEM all day.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

We got yeah, right, right. By the way, I gotta say, I love your background. That's so fitting for you. It's colorful like ours, but it's all space and that's so you. I love it. Um, so do you see yourself uh because that was the last pageant that you did, correct? It was. Do you see yourself um, you know, later in in years to come competing once again somewhere else? Or now that you're married, going back and doing misses there?

SPEAKER_01 29:27

That's the thing, because when I did misses before, because I won the I won the state title as a single, but as a missus, I remember the competition was like super uh competitive. It is and at the time even first two titles, it's still it's still, it's really competitive. And then, but back then it was harder. I was I think it's more competitive and harder for me because I was still trying to like figure out myself and everything. But now that I know who I am and like why I think the way I do and how why I process things the way that I do, I actually think that's more of a um, what is the word looking for? Like a tool, another another tool, basically. 100% help me in my preparations. So like I know how to approach things now. Um, and then I also know not to worry about other people's judgment and like what they say about you. Because in all honesty, like at this moment in my life where I'm at, I'm like, I could give two craps. I'm not here, I'm not here to be liked by everybody. And I'm I I acknowledge I'm not for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

And say that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

That goes with everyone, either neurodivergent or neurotypical. Yes, you know, very true. Yeah, so true. Do you feel like um, you know, if you were to compete uh again in you know any system, do you feel like you would um shift your platform maybe a little bit to talk about? I would actually. I think it would be powerful.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

I still do this the STEM uh stuff uh more often, uh every so often. Um, but ever since like the mini stroke, I had to like I step back from my job. I used to be a trustee at that foundation. I stepped back from that and kind of have been like rebuilding everything. You've been a winger, you are so strong. I'm glad it looks that way. I'm like literally making all this up as I go along and figuring it out as I go. But um, but yeah, but now since like everything that's happened in the last three years since the mini stroke, um, it's really changed my perspective on a lot of things and like what I value and what I feel is like important and what I want my legacy to be. So I think I think I don't know what it would be or how I would like morph where I'm at right now to something else, but I feel like the platform would be slightly different.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

I think, yeah, and I think just you know, I think so many people and judges would be like, what? Wow, like here it it's such you'd be such a great role model and example of, you know, not only did I get diagnosed later in life, but my daughter's on the spectrum too, and you get to talk about, you could talk about so much and then talk about your career and STEM and how that all just connects and your previous platform about overcoming stuff, right? Yeah. That's that goes aligned with you yourself, with having a stroke, your autism and how you learn to navigate and adjust the world, especially with pageantry. Because a lot of people probably don't think about how someone on the spectrum, those lights, the sound, the cheering, the loud music, um, all the girls talking backstage. It's just there's so much. And then, you know, like what we talked about, you not wanting to come across as I'm, you know, standoffish, but then it's too much for you. That's just so much more than any other woman competing is probably going through. We're all going through in our heads so much of, you know, I have anxiety, and every pageant I get in my own head, and my anxiety takes over. And then I feel like it affects my the way I compete. Not every other girl has that. And so, but then I can't imagine having the extra challenges that you do. So it'd be really cool uh if you, you know, got to share that. And you'd be such a great role model for others. And I think, you know, if other women competing uh were more aware of, you know, women out there competing could, you know, have autism and to maybe stop and think, oh, they're not being standoff or stuck up, they just may have some sensory issues, you know. Yeah, you could teach so many people some wonderful things. So let's talk about um families. So you recently got married, yay.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

I did actually got remarried to the first person I actually I married, which is funny, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

Okay, I thought so because the last name I was like, wait a minute, this sounds familiar. Were you married to him when you did United States?

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Um, no, but I I think we had recently gotten divorced. Okay, maybe back then I was in the Miss Woman category. So yeah, I was single at that point, but I don't I'm I don't like doing paperwork. So it took me forever to like change my name after.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

That makes so much sense. Okay, I feel like adults on the spectrum sometimes are procrastinators, and so that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

It was like, oh yeah, I should do this. Oh, and um, and I got married to in between, I got married to somebody else briefly. Um and it ended up not working out. But basically, after I got divorced from my husband Richard, um it was oh gosh, several years later. And then I was engaged again, and I was like, Oh, well, I guess there's no point in changing my name since I'm gonna just take those other people.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

Oh, right, right. That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

Wow. So you guys just kind of refell in love.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Um yeah, basically it's it's that's a simplified answer. But basically, um he has been over um over the years, we've been in touch this whole time. He still lives here. Yeah, lived here.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Is he EJ's dad or no?

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Yeah, he's EJ's dad. Um, but part of why we broke up the first time is actually sort of related to EJ. Because when he decided to leave, it wasn't that long after she was diagnosed. Oh, and prior to that, we were still kind of like fruiting out this whole marriage thing because we're both only children, never really like been in the same space with another human, like on a consistent basis. And we were already kind of like having some issues when we were considering counseling and stuff, but then we had her and she was having all of her issues, and we got the diagnosis, and then shortly thereafter, that was too much for him. Yeah. Um, but he's always been like kind of in and out over the years, and recently um, he retired from the post office. He's been was worked for them for 20 gosh, I think it was 28 years, and then prior to that, he was in the Navy. Um, and so he was retiring and needed to um was looking to save up some more money before he retired. And so I said, Well, I have an extra room in my house, you can come and you know rent a room. And that's basically just what it was was like very like a boundaries, like you're just my you're just my renter. Yeah, yeah. And we just happened to share a kid. Yeah, we just happened to share a kid, but there's nothing going on. Yeah. Um, and then just over time had more conversations about, you know, just life and hanging out, like not as kind of like as like a family, but not really an official family, and just hanging out together and like remembering like what that was like. And then we started talking through different things about um our relationship and like what went wrong, why it went wrong, like how we both felt kind of force you guys to like address those issues being so close together. Wow, wow, and so we did, and like I even like let him have it like really bad. Like, you know, this is what like we did and we moved here because he wanted to move here. I I put in for the transfer because he wanted to live here. I knew nobody here. I think he had a couple friends. Yeah, well, I'm glad you moved here. I'm glad too. I've met so many wonderful people here, but it's it kind of like I felt like we moved here, right? And then uh we got we were already we were saying we were decided we're gonna like work it out, do counseling, whatever. And we get here, which he's diagnosed. I mean, get here, and he basically shortly after we get here, just leaves. And it's just me and a single mom working all the time with this child who I have no idea what to do with because they basically like gave us her diagnosis and was like, okay, have fun.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Um, so at the time I needed him most, it felt like I was abandoned. And so I we kind of talked through that and everything. And he's like, I didn't mean to abandon you. It had nothing to do with Irma. I love Irma. It's just it was a lot, and we were having trouble, and it was just easier to leave. And I see that I I should have stayed. And we worked through all that. And then, like, we're like, okay, well, you know what? Let's do this, let's start dating again. And so we both kind of were on the couch and like, hi, I'm Sabrina. Hi, I'm Richard. What do you like to do? And it kind of like kind of like starting over again. And then we would do like a date night uh once or twice a week and and whatever. And then he ended up proposing to me. Uh, we got married in December. So it was around springtime.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I remember that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

And uh yeah, and I was like, oh my gosh, yeah, and he actually and the first time we got married, he didn't really propose. We were just kind of like, yeah, you're you're pretty cool. Let's go to let's go get married. Yes. Got gathering, got that on one knee, all of that.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

It was really nice. Um your wedding pictures are so oh my gosh. I remember just being so happy for you. And I kind of wondered because it just looked, I was so curious because it just looked like EJ and him just, I was like, wow, did he just step into a role and she just is, you know, so great with him? I was wondering, and I'm like, because I just saw like the connection there between the two of them.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Um and also and the pictures that were taken. I met her through pageants as well. Who was it? It was um Jasmine Coleman. She was um Mrs. Arizona, Mrs. Arizona International, and I want to say it was like 2017-ish. Yeah, yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah, she's a photographer. And see it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

Yeah, oh, that's awesome. So, how talk a little bit about EJ through that process?

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Like, did she have a hard time understanding or so? She didn't have a hard time understanding like the fact that like eventually, well, in the beginning, it was hard because we had like she's used to like going to his place for a few days and coming back. Yeah, and then he or like he'll come over for like um if I have like a like my aunt lives in the area, if I have like a family dinner with my aunt and stuff, I'll invite him. Hey, we're gonna have you know Thanksgiving, you can come if you want. So he's she's you was used to him like coming for like periods of time, not like being mad all day and being here, and having a judgment to her what was going on and what was gonna be happening. He was gonna, Daddy was gonna be staying in the extra room and and this. And she's like, okay, cool. Um, but I don't think she really understood what that meant to have some other person who isn't a stranger, but in a way is a stranger a little bit because they weren't like as close as like if he had been around the case.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Because being there a couple days a week is different than being together all the time. Yes, and especially a girl, I feel like a girl and a guy situation, right? Yeah, it's different. It's an adjustment.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Yes, and it was a very funny adjustment because after like a week or two, she text messages me on her tablet. She's like, Hey mom, can we talk? And I was like, Oh, okay. Sure, what are we talking about? And then she comes in a room and she's like, So when is dad going back home? Because he keep he keeps moving my things, he keeps doing this, he keeps doing this, and he's doing this. And I'm like, he's just trying to clean and help, and you know, yeah, yeah, but he's touching my things and he moved my stuff and he used my bathroom. He used my bathroom because the seats up and he shouldn't be using my bathroom. Like it was just a lot. Yeah. And so I explained to him, like, okay, I I I appreciate you trying to help and clean up and whatever. However, we you're in her in her eyes, in her eyes, you're kind of like a visitor. And like, this is our space, this is her space, and this is her bathroom, this is her room, and you know, you can't just be changing stuff. And like we have like a schedule and we have like a routine, and you can't just especially for Willie and Millie. Yes. Like he was trying to say, Oh, bedtime should be this. I'm like, okay, great, we can work on that next year. But right now, this is what it is, you know. Yeah, so there was an adjustment there. But in terms of like her seeing us in a relationship, she's actually prior to him moving in, she would make little comments about oh, so because um she uh the guy I was married to before, his name was Stu. And he's she's like, Oh, so since Daddy Sue's not here anymore, so um uh daddy, you and daddy can get back together and we can have you can have more kids because she wants to have a sibling. Oh kids. So she'd been like dropping that for like a long time. And I'm thinking to myself, girlfriend, I am I don't know if I have eggs left at this point.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

Or the energy. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

And like when people ask, Do you have any kids? I'm like, Oh yeah, I don't have any one. And the one I think I'm just gonna have the one too. Yeah, it's hard, it's hard when you're on the spectrum. Yeah, if it's if it's meant to happen, um right and something happens between now and when I hit menopause, then that is what it is, and that's what Ward wanted.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

Yeah, but was she there when he proposed, or was it just a moment, just you two?

SPEAKER_01 43:25

It was just two of us.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

Oh, that's special. Super sweet.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Yeah, and then we told her, and then she was like, Okay, and just when you tell her, she's the weirdest kid when it comes to like surprises or stuff, because she'll act like to your face, she'll kind of like act like oh, whatever. But then later she'll be like all excited. Like, um, one of my aunts gave her something, and then she's like, Oh, okay, this is nice, thank you. And then she leaves, and then Irma, like the next day is like, Oh my gosh, this is the coolest thing that she gave me. Look at this, and whatever. I'm like, where is this excitement? Right, yeah, you like you.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

She's probably like, I gotta keep it, I gotta keep it calm and cool. It's probably what she's thinking in her head.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

Yeah. And with the engagement, she was kind of like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah. Good. Okay. And then, but the next day at school, apparently she was telling everybody.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

So excited. And like when I won, when I won the pageant, um, she was kind of like, oh, this is pretty cool, whatever. But then she went to school and told everybody, my mom's the queen of Arizona.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Oh. Speaking of, was she was she there at when you got crowned, Miss Arizona? She was.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Um, and it was so funny because you were trying to get her on the stage for the pictures.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

No, go. I think I remember that. She's on, she's up there, but like the face she's giving is like take the camera, take the picture, take the picture.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Be done already. I'd be done already. I know.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

The second they took the picture, she's like off to the side, just playing her ball.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

For your farewell, right? She came on stage too. Oh, yes, she did. I remember I was there. I was like, I was so excited. Did she go to nationals too, or did she stay home?

SPEAKER_01 45:05

No, we thought about it. Uh, but it it was not gonna happen. Yeah, yeah. That might be way too much for her. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

So talk about your wedding. Was she like talk about the uh her and how she was part of it, all that stuff I went here?

SPEAKER_01 45:20

The only thing that she was part of in the wedding, I but we had planned for her to either walk down the aisle with me or walk down the aisle with her dad. Um, but uh she in situations where there's lots of people, you never know which EJ is gonna show up. Exactly. So same here. I don't know which action I'm gonna get. A babysitter that we were using pretty regularly at the time. And I asked her like a second um we knew what day we're getting married. I asked her, Hey, what are you doing on this day? Because I need to hire you for like six hours. Yeah. Um, and then she's like, oh no, I'm free. And so she canceled it in. I mean, and so and then like they kind of got to know each other.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

I think that's the last thing that you want to do is worry about that on your special day.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Yeah. And so uh basically she um stayed at the hotel with us, and then um he she went with him in the car because he was going to meet early with the groomsman to help with some of the chairs. And um the plan was they were gonna meet there with Kayla's babysitter, and her and Kayla were gonna just observe and kind of let Irma do whatever she's gonna do, and Kayla's there to support. Um, and then afterwards we're gonna take some pictures and then they can go home if Irma wants, or they can stay and eat or whatever, just kind of yeah, whatever, whatever she's she's the boss. Yeah, and then my aunt was trying to have her sit in the front with the family, which would make sense. But Irma's like, yeah, no, I'm good. She her and Kayler at that corner. Irma has her doll, she's just doing her thing. I'm like, don't, don't, don't bother. Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

You're my family, just let her do her thing.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Let her do her thing.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

Yeah. Rather her be comfortable and happy than force her to do something and her be upset and frustrated, right? Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Um, I'm like, this is not the hill we're dying on today.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

I have to tell that to my mom sometimes. I'm like, just stop, like, don't force him, just let him be.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

And then the picking outfit because Irma has sensory issues with clothes. Oh, and so we went to gosh, probably 15 different stores trying to find a dress that wasn't too wasn't too silky, wasn't whatever. And we ended up finding this really nice dress. It's cotton from Old Navy. Oh, perfect. Um, and it was like light peach, which matched with the color theme. Ah, so pretty. And beautiful. She looked and then she didn't want to wear it the day of, like the day before, like not it was a couple days before we actually found it. She picked it out herself, she tried it on, and it was fine. But the day of, she's like, I want to wear this. I don't like this. This is itchy. I'm like, I'm so sorry that and I'm trying at that point, I'm like trying not to lose my crap.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

It was like can you just put the dress on? If you want, you can wear shorts underneath because that makes you feel better for something, and you can wear an undershirt, totally fine. I do it. You are going to be wearing this dress for the next two and a half hours and you just need to make your peace with it. And it is what it is.

unknown 48:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

So then after the and after the ceremony is over, we're going to take some pictures. After the pictures, you can either leave with Miss Kayla and you guys can go home or you can stay and hang out. The choice is up to you. But you will be in this dress for the next two and a half hours. Got it? And then she's like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

Yeah, like and like that's your only probably brides little moment. You're like, I sorry, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

I don't normally like get agitated and like speak through my teeth, but I was like, if I open my mouth to you right now, I'm going to go crazy.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

But also, and that's like kind of what MJ MJ and I have talked about is like the challenges of I don't want to say disciplining, but teaching and and and disciplining your kids while they're on the spectrum. You want, you don't want them to get their way all the time. You got to teach them you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 49:07

So it's that same we have that same problem. But sometimes it's and then it's also like, okay, did she do this because she's on the spectrum and like maybe she just doesn't understand, or is she doing this on purpose and trying to because we've been in times where she was clearly trying to manipulate and like play off of both of us to get something?

SPEAKER_02 49:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

Um, and then I also can tell times where she's like just she yes, and they listen to everything and they pay attention. Um, so yeah, it it is definitely difficult. But yeah, at the at the end of the day, though, we had a good wedding, she stood still for her three pictures, and then the second she's like, Are we done? And then she's like, Yeah, we're done. You can that's all the pictures of the group. And then she's like, Oh, okay, bye. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. You had a picture with just you and your dad. And then you're you're you're and your dad, your mom. And then she's like, uh, no, mommy said pictures, we took pictures, out. She grabbed her bag, her and Kayla were gone.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Oh man, she's like, I did it, I'm done. Oh, does she like music, dancing, anything like that? Or was that just not?

SPEAKER_01 50:17

So she doesn't necessarily like dancing, but she likes listening to music. Okay. She recently started listening to because some of the like older girls at school listen to um oh my gosh. Uh what is that app? Uh Spotify?

SPEAKER_02 50:33

Oh yeah, Spotify, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Which I didn't know was a thing. I'm an Apple music person. I mean, um, yeah. And so they had and and it was and you that was also funny too, because we had to use Spotify for the playlist for the music for the wedding, because that's how their system worked. Like you can bring them Spotify list and then they just do it for you.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

And you should have seen me trying to figure out how to like make a playlist on Spotify. It was so hilarious. But yeah, so she likes to listen to she likes anime, and so she'll listen to like the sound trait, soundtracks of anime, cartoons, and stuff like that. Um, and she listens to that BTS group.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Oh, right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Yeah, so she's starting to like listen to music.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

Did she like the K-pop demon hunter stuff?

SPEAKER_01 51:12

She did like the movie. She's we've only watched it once. She's only watched it once with one of her babysitters. I have yet to watch it. And every time I go to watch it, I was like, hey, you don't watch the movie. She's like, I've already seen it. And like the way that's what she is, like, once she's seen a movie or seen a show once, she's like, I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

I hear that happens a lot with um some individuals on the spectrum, but they're like, I already know the outcome, so am I gonna watch it again? But then you have kids like my like my son who just on repeat.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

So hate on some things though. So like actual sit-down movies, once she watches it, one she's good. But TV shows, like that now, she is like hooked on dance moms and she will just keep watching those episodes over and over and over.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

That's so funny. That's so funny that it's a TV show she'll do that with, but not movies.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

Yeah. So funny.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

You just never know.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

So yeah, but I'm but I'm the opposite with movies. I can watch the same movie over and over and over again. And he um Richard asked me why, like, how do you do that? I'm like, I don't know. It brings you joy. It's it does, it brings me joy, but also I think a lot of it is like I like predictable things, like predictable storylines. Like a lot of the shows I watch are cooking shows because it's like you have three people that start the competition. There's a couple different rounds, people are gonna get eliminated. There's one winner at the end. They're gonna do some cool stuff in the middle, but I understand like what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

With movies, I like movies that are like comforting and I I've seen it before, so it's really calming and yeah, whatever. So, yeah, so I can like uh the running joke is how um he thinks I'm gonna watch that movie Easy A at least a million times before I die. Like it's probably gonna be more than a million times.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

Yeah, if you know this about me, I'm a huge friends fanatic. Um, if I didn't have my background on right now, you would see that I'm sitting on the friend's couch and a friend's thing. But that's my like medicine that helps me sleep. I watch friends to go to sleep at night and I watch them over and over again. I watch season one through season 10 and then I start over again. So, you know, some things just bring us comfort and ease our minds, right? Yeah, we need that. All right. Well, let's wrap up. We got some ending questions for you. Uh let's see here. Um, if you or what changes would you like to see within the autism community?

SPEAKER_01 53:40

What changes would I like to see? Um one thing that I would like to see change is how people view level one and level two autism. So I have a question for you.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

Uh how do you feel about the levels? Because I have mixed emotions about it. I don't think they help. I don't either. I don't know. Because me personally, I don't like it. I don't think we should be put into or put them into categories.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

I think it should just be autism.

unknown 54:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

And then the but the fact that they're different levels of how people function and like how like the challenges that they have, I still feel like in terms of helping to figure out what services somebody needs, yeah, there should be some kind of classifications around that. But I do feel like it should be like independent of just the autism diagnosis. Right. Because I feel like as and and then excuse me, and then like when I'm on like these chat boards with other women who are on the spectrum, and I see kind of like how people ask questions or answer questions and stuff. It seems to me sometimes like because people are at these different levels, like certain like people who have level one autism, I can tell a lot of them kind of feel like they're better than who are levels. Yeah, and it's not about being better than it's just that we like we still have challenges. There's challenges in different ways, exactly. Yeah, it's not about being better or worse off, it's just everyone has a different level of support that they need. Yeah, um, and the fact that because of the levels, like people have like these things. And then also when you tell some, like like for my end to tell you were saying that you would have never thought that I had autism. Um, a lot of people have told me that. It's like, and also they say stuff like you don't look autistic. I'm like, what does that look like? What does please please explain to me? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_02 55:35

What people I hate to say it, but because the R word is no longer, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, that's never been a good word. But I think people are associating that with autism and the fact that, like, oh, people who cause some people have uh lower functioning abilities, um, physically, speech-wise, so they're now associating that look with autism. And it's like, no, just they just have more, they have higher needs, like, you know what I mean? But yeah, there's just there's not a look. And so I think people are associating, you know, a cognitive dysfunction with it and how it has a look that doesn't mean anything, you know.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Yeah, and then also the term high functioning, yeah. Um, I think is hilarious because when you look up at the definition of like what that means, it basically has to deal with your IQ. Right. And I honestly have never liked the idea of like the IQ number because it's you're taking a sing a single test one time. And then also the test is written, assuming that you have a certain level of whatever, but there's gonna be people like excuse me, um, different ethnicities or different like socioeconomic classes that may not have ever come across these things. So if you show them a picture of it, they're not gonna know what it is. And that doesn't mean that they have less intelligence.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

I know.

SPEAKER_01 57:00

Yeah, it's so crazy. Yeah, but then also they when they use that word hype, at least in the situations I've been in where like the word high functioning has been used, um, they assume that if someone has a diagnosis of high functioning autism, that means that one, they don't have any need any help, but also that like they're geniuses and can do anything. And that's not the case. Right. Um, like for example, myself, I um am really smart with space stuff when I have a job. Yeah, like that I found my niche of like what I like to do. Like everyone has that thing they hyper focus on. That's my thing. However, I am the worst at doing simple things like remembering to do my laundry or remembering to pay bills, which is why I'm so glad I'm married now and my husband can do because like keeping track of these certain things, like certain functional things that you think a grown adult would be able to do, I struggle with.

SPEAKER_02 57:51

Yeah. And that's a great example of like, yeah, I'm highly intelligent in this area, but I struggle in this area. And vice versa. You know, some people may excel in those other areas, but don't excel in another area.

SPEAKER_03 58:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

Um I always, I always like when I talk to people, I like to give the example of Sheldon Cooper. Like, he's brilliant in these ways, but he struggles with knowing, you know, uh what sarc being sarcastic is. Like things like that he struggles with. And it's like, look, it goes to show, like, yeah, you can, you know, and then someone who struggles with, you know, might be very organized and has these great skills of how to organize, but then like maybe they struggle with math. Like, so you just, you know.

SPEAKER_01 58:43

Yeah, so those are the things that I think changed is like people's views of like the like ignore the levels and just go with autism and then figure out what type of support they need.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

Yeah. I think I was just saying in another episode, it's like we were trying so hard to make autism inclusive. Why are we segregating it again? Like we're creating a segregation within our own community. And when Jackson was diagnosed, he wasn't diagnosed with a level. And that was eight. No, neither was Emma. Yeah. And so it's like, when did this? I was like, all of a sudden I started hearing this. And I'm like, what what? What is this? Like, I I fullheartedly was like PO'd when I started hearing this. I was like, what is going on? I don't like it. You know, it was Jackson's diagnosis like non-verbal autistic because he was. And now he's like kind of considered like non-speaking because he can talk. He's just can't communicate. So I'm like, I fully agree with those kinds of things where you're kind of clarifying a little bit more of like their struggles because it speech delay is a diagnosis. So, you know, he was always speech delayed and autistic. I agree with stuff like that, like, or like someone has to rebuild palsy and autism because they have physical.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

But but that's but yeah, but that's like that's to clarify and make sure they get the right services. That's different than just putting them in buckets. And then also with the whole levels thing now, I always wonder like, do I have to like since when she was diagnosed, it was moderate to severe autism is what she was diagnosed with. But what does that even mean in the current levels? Do I have to get her reevaluated? Like, what is like I don't think so. It's confusing.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

And I get like the moderate and severe, because let's let's be real, like some have um some more physical uh behaviors that are more challenging. Um, and I get I get more like the severe versus level one, two, three. Like yeah. Same thing with like dementia. So I specialize in Alzheimer's. I used to work in that, and they would say early, moderate, and severe. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

You know what I mean? And that makes sense and that helps you understand what it is they need for support. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:01

So why why put a number with it? Like we shouldn't do level one, two, three. It's fine saying, like, you know, that they're they have severe autism uh with physical behaviors, like, you know, stuff like that, because then you understand the individual and the needs, like you said, the needs that they have. I agree. Well said. All right, last question. Okay. If you could give one message of encouragement to a parent who's just starting this journey with a child with autism, what would you want them to hear?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:35

Oh, it's a hard question. Um, because there's so many things that I've learned along the way. Um, I the first thing I'd want them to know is that, you know, in the beginning, I thought when she got her diagnosis that it was like the end of the world. Um and it's not the end of the world. It's not the end of the world. It's a little shocking and drawing at first. And you in my experience, I kind of grieved a little bit. There is a grief. Because I was gifted my most of my life academically and stuff like that. And so I was like, oh, she's maybe she's gonna like grow up and be like a scientist or all these different things. Um, and then now that she's older and I've gotten to we've talked with her teachers and different stuff and know like what her abilities are, that's probably not gonna be a thing for her. Um, and but we're focused on just helping her to get the most like life skills, functional type uh skill set that she can have to help her to be like as self-sufficient as she can be. Most likely she's gonna live with us um for the rest of her life. Or and then we're now we're starting to talk about, you know, planning for what happens if something happens to us. So that's what we are thinking now, too. Like, is he gonna, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Um, so that's the first part is to, you know, don't don't see it as like a death sentence. Uh your child is gonna grow up to be a beautiful, lovely child. Um, just continue to very different way. And then you're just gonna need to continue to like nurture them, find help try to help help them find what their thing is that they're interested in and that they want to focus on and like encourage that. Because when I know with AJ, when we're when she's doing her thing and having fun doing the stuff that she loves to do, she's happier, she's she actually started talking to us more, like when she was coloring and stuff, and we sit down and just chit-chat, or we'll play board games. And as we're playing the board game, she'll chit-chat and talk. Like, just try to give your kids the most positive experience that you can. Um also, though, acknowledging that outside of your home you can't control everything. Like my daughter was as much as we want to, yeah. Yeah, my daughter um went to public school um at first and ended up getting really bullied. And so now she's in private school. And from that though, um she had a fear of going into like classrooms and stuff like that. And so now she's at a school where um there have some small group things, but a lot of the instructions one-on-one because academically that's what she needs. But that also has been slowly like giving her the confidence. So I'm trying to not try to not expose her to things because of how she might be scared or might be have a little kind of PS PTSD from the bullying and stuff like that. I still want her to try to be around other kids because of and to try to do these different things and try stuff she's kind of nervous about because eventually at some point I will not be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

And either she'll live behind the customer or she'll be I need to be able to kind of do the basics. If she lives in a group home, something like that, she still needs to be able to take care of herself. And that's what we're focusing on right now is like the self, like a lot of her have goals are related to self-care, washing your face, and which is challenging. Like she's really um with Jackson, yeah, right kid in general, but like if you don't tell her to take a shower, or you don't like sometimes I have to even do like hand over hand to show her, no, this is how we this is how we wash and whatever because they just they just don't think about those things, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

And to them, they don't understand like why it's important, exactly. And because it's not fun, it's not enjoyable. So why you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

Yep. And so today, even when we were working on some stuff this morning, I was explaining. So, do you understand why we put on deodorant? Like little things like that. And then um, she's really once you explain a process to her, she's really good at understanding and it and doing it, but it's the retaining part that she has trouble with. So um, so yeah, so just love your kiddos, nurture them, like help them find what their thing is. And just in every kid, right? Yeah, yes, but even more so with the kids. Because sometimes it's gonna get it's gonna get frustrating. Yeah, and sometimes you're gonna want to pull your hair out, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

And um, sometimes screaming to the pillow if you can somewhere in the car, somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

And and someday your kid's gonna have a meltdown. In a grocery store, and you're going to just walk to the other aisle and just like debate whether or not like there's so many things you're gonna do. Um, you're gonna not always make perfect choices, and you're not always gonna, especially when it comes to the like disciplining and like teaching them right and wrong, because they're not always gonna get it, or they're gonna say they get it and you think you're good, and then they do it like three seconds later. Um it's just it's all about being consistent with them um and just doing your best because that's all you can do at the end of the day. That's right. And that's I guess that's my final word is just try to raise a good human. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:41

We all should, right? It's just a little bit harder on our end. And I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

It's gonna take more time and patience and effort, but it's it's gonna be rewarding in the end.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:50

You got this, right? Yes, they're not alone. No, you're definitely not alone. There's so many moms out there that relate to what you're going through, or dads, or grandparents, you know. Well, Sabrina, thank you so much. That was well said, and I feel like I got to know you so much more, and I love it. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing your journey through your diagnosis and you know, talking about EJ and your family and your career. You're an amazing woman. So thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

Thank you so much for having me. It's been really fun to get to know you guys more.

unknown 1:07:30

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

Well, your episode, your two-part episode was fantastic. Again, we appreciate you so much. And I can't wait to see what the future is in store for you and EJ. And um, looking forward to, you know, maybe doing some events together. We'll do some autism stuff together. And can't wait. Thanks again.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

No problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

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