Race Season: Can TAG Heuer’s F1 deal revive the Swiss watch industry?

A very warm welcome to the very first episode of the Luxury Society Podcast, brought to you by Digital Luxury Group, hosted by Robin Swithinbank & David Sadigh.

Together, we're going to be deep-diving into the world of luxury to try and figure out how it works, who is behind it, and just what brands and businesses need to do to be successful in it. 

Coming up in this first episode, we'll be speaking to one of the industry's top CEOs about a billion-dollar partnership that looks set to transform his brand's fortunes, Antoine Pin, CEO TAG Heuer on Formula 1.  Then we're going to delve into some of the data behind it that proves why it might just be the best billion dollars ever spent.

Follow us @digitalluxurygroup and @robin_swithinbank on Instagram

Produced by Juliet Fallowfield in 2025, Fallow, Field & Mason

Transcript

Main ep

 [00:00:00] 

Robin Swithinbank: Hello and a very warm welcome to the very first episode of the Luxury Society Podcast, brought to you by Digital Luxury Group. I'm your host, Robin.

David Sadigh: And I am your co-host, David Sadigh.

Robin Swithinbank: And together we're going to be deep diving into the world of luxury to try and figure out how it works, who's behind it, and just what brands and businesses need to do to be successful in it. Coming up in this first episode, we'll be speaking to one of the industry's top CEOs about a billion dollar partnership that looks set to transform his brand's fortunes.

And then we're gonna delve into some of the data behind it that proves why. Might just be the best billion dollars ever spent. So David on with the show,

David Sadigh: On with the show.

Antoine Pin: So it's a big bet, but a meaningful bet, I would say. But, uh, uh, very reasonable one I believe we TAG Heuer will be part of the 1 billion, uh, sales, uh, club. Frankly, this is not my problem. I believe we have a role to expose watchmaking to a, to new categories of people. and then we, I frankly, who am I to tell people what [00:01:00] to wear and what to buy?

Robin Swithinbank: Now for this first episode of the Luxury Society Podcast, David and I wanted to get a giant to the luxury world into talk to us, someone with a story to tell that the whole world wants to know whose brand is at the epicenter of what's happening in global luxury today. And boy did we hit the jackpot.

And so it is David and my immense pleasure to welcome to the pod Antoine Pin, CEO of TAG Heuer Antoine, thank you so much for agreeing to be the first to sit in the Luxury Society Podcast. Hot seat. How are you?

Antoine Pin: I'm fine. Thank you for hosting me.

Robin Swithinbank: good to see you now, I suspect, um, I mean, there may be one or two people in the world who have been hiding under a rock these past three months who don't know that TAG Heuer is the new timekeeper of Formula One. The deal is part of a multi-brand partnership between TAG Heuer parent company, LVMH, and Liberty Media, F one's owners.

Reportedly it's worth a hundred million dollars a year over 10 years for a $1 billion total. So Antoine, you joined TAG Heuer [00:02:00] in September and inherited the deal, which had been announced just briefly before. Since you are here, is it really worth that much? And what's it like to be landed with that kind of responsibility as TAG Heuer new chief executive?

Antoine Pin: The beauty of the first question you're asking is that I won't be able to answer before the next, before at least eight or nine years, when I actually see whether it was worth, uh, spending the money over, over the next 10 years. So I. The, the fact is, uh, formula One has become an, an extraordinary media.

It's touching on all the continents, all, uh, the categories of people all ages. Uh, we're talking about one more than 1.5 billion people watching Formula One today. Uh, I was attending the first Grand Prix in Melbourne. There were more than 460,000 spectators in the weekend. It's, the numbers are absolutely, uh, stunning.

Uh, the, the fact is that when it comes to TAG Heuer partnering with Formula One, the beauty of this investment is the fact that media, so Formula One is a media [00:03:00] at first, but on on the other end, it's also. By essence, the content, because the brand historically belongs to Formula One has been connected to Formula One for 60 years.

So the fact that we are partnering and actively partnering with Formula One is, is a, is a message, is the content as much as it is the platform. So. Uh, let's say it's an extraordinary media, it's a meaningful media for us. So qualitatively, from a pure qualitative perspective, I believe it's a great investment.

It's obviously a great responsibility as well, uh, that I am inheriting because, uh, the numbers are, are quite, uh, impressive and, uh, we'll, we'll make sure we make the most of it.

Robin Swithinbank: And at the time of recording, we're, we're two races into the season. Um, what impact are you able to say that the partnership has had on the business so far?  It's only been three months ago since the announcement was made. At all have you, have you seen an impact?

Antoine Pin: So still very early to comment on the results, but what we see is, um, again, going first looking at the. The qualitative perspective, uh, the positive [00:04:00] reactions of our clients, of our regular clients, the positive reaction of people entering stores and talking about TAG Heuer being, uh, once again the timekeeper of Formula One is, is large, is vast, is covering all the geographies again. And probably more importantly, we see a significant increase of the traffic into our stores, probably clearly highlighting the, the impact of, uh, of, uh, formula One on the traction of, uh, on the exposure at least of, uh, of the Maison, uh, of the house, uh, to, uh, to this population that is watching and, uh, and, uh, uh, watching Formula Me one.

Robin Swithinbank: One of the races that we've had so far was the Chinese Grand Prix, and, um, you and I spoke a little bit earlier this year about the significance of the Chinese Grand Prix because TAG Heuer, unlike some luxury Swiss watch brands, is not overexposed in China, and therefore hasn't actually been hurt as much by the recent, uh, downturn in exports to the country.

Um. Uh, you were hoping that you might be able to use it as a platform to begin the activation and the amplification of the brand in China. What sort of impression were you able to make on the Chinese population, do you think?

Antoine Pin: It's, it's [00:05:00] interesting. We, we organized, um, uh, a small exhibition in Shanghai in, uh, in, in the center of Shanghai. Uh. Uh. Somewhat exposing Formula One and on the back of Formula One, exposing our history and our, our long, uh, our 60 years history, uh, in relation to Formula One. And, um, we've seen a, a, a very, very large traffic.

We've seen people who were not exposed to TAG Heuer discovering the brand, discovering our history and, and again, the, the, the quality of the contacts we've made, uh, with, uh. Uh, more than 10,000 contacts over a week of people leaving their, their data because they were really showing an interest for the brand is, uh, extremely positive to us.

Uh, it's interesting to see here again that Formula One is truly becoming a universal, uh, modern circus. And clearly, uh. Becoming the hotspot of the, of the weekend when it's gating somewhere. And we are, we are taking advantage of this. We've clearly took advantage of this.

David Sadigh: It, it's very, very interesting. Uh, Antoine, um, can you comment a bit on the rationale for this, uh, uh, major sponsorship? Because my guess is that this is one of the biggest [00:06:00] sponsorship ever signed. I. Uh, by tag hire. Am I correct?

Antoine Pin: Well, it's, uh, let's, let's remember that it's a group, uh, deal and we are not, uh, we're not, uh, fully financing, uh, by far the, uh, the, the, the whole deal. But still it's a very important deal for us clearly. Uh. I think it's a, it, it is a, a very bold decision made by, uh, Frédéric Arnault and Stefan Bianchi some, some years ago to, to get back on, on the, on the field and to get back as the timekeeper of Formula One.

I would say Formula One today is one of the top three sports in terms of viewership from on a, on a yearly base. Uh, putting aside the, uh. Uh, the, uh, soccer, uh, world Cup and the Olympic Games. Uh, and, and, and, and therefore, it's a huge communication platform that somewhat raises the status and the prestige of the house.

So it's a big bet, but a meaningful bet, I would say. But, uh, very reasonable one once again, because it's so much making sense. Okay. The, the brand has been involved. In timekeeping, in, um, and, and actually in, uh, in, in running timekeeping for, uh, car races for more than 100 [00:07:00] years. It was first a supplier to the teams and to the, the racing teams.

Not even a, not even somewhat as a, as a, as a watchmaker, but as a timekeeping tool provider. So we've built a huge heritage, we've built a huge expertise in this, in this field. And even our, our. Let's say our expression, our relation to sports and what it means today, because it was not just motor racing from motor racing, from the very first, uh, car races in 1916 with the Micrograph.

We moved to the Olympic Games. We were the timekeeper of the Olympic Games in 19 20, 19, 24, 19 80. Um, so we, we, we've believe, be, we've been a a, a A. Again, one of the most prestigious partners of the most visible events, sports events in the world over the last century. And, and, uh, clearly, uh, uh, Fred and, and and, and Stefan had this vision that we should be back here and we should hold this position, which makes a lot of sense.

David Sadigh: And what about the younger demographics? Because we have seen, thanks to Drive to Survive and other like Netflix type of, uh, series that. Lots of younger [00:08:00] folks and, uh, women especially, uh, are like more and more into Formula One. Did it play a role in the, in the decision? And how are you going to leverage on this huge opportunity?

Antoine Pin: I think what is interesting with Formula One and with Netflix and, and the job done. By the organization to, uh, again, to expose, uh, this sport. It's the fact that through Netflix, formula One has been able to, to highlight emotion beyond the technology. Uh, we've moved out of a Petrolhead game and, and we've come into, um, a dramatic scenario involving extraordinary characters and exposing. Very amplified feelings and emotions because the race is, is, is put to such a, an extreme level of tension, concentration, uh, uh, of danger. That all emotions are going beyond normal. And probably that's what has turned, uh, the, the sport into a real universal [00:09:00] platform. It's, it's clearly a drama. The end of which we don't know at the beginning, but the drama that is exposing the feelings and, and truly this is also very much relating to us because above and beyond motor racing, um, I think where, where Tagger has been extraordinarily successful over the, over the, the recent decades.

The past decades. It's in expressing this element of emotions beyond technology. Through our engagement in, into sports and technol and, and technical and other technical, uh, uh, uh, anyway, I'm, I'm re rephrasing it through our engagement in, in, in sports, in all sorts of sports. Again, from selling to skiing to, uh, to, uh, track and field to, uh, in again motor racing, massively motor racing.

We've, we've experienced extraordinary moments. We've been witness of moments of revelation, moments of truth, moments of victory, moments of losses, but moment that we're. Expression of the pure, of pure humanity. And I love this paradox that we are highlighting. We are an an engineer. We are, uh, an engineer's brand.

Okay? We've always been engineers. We've, we've, we bring technology at the service of, of the teams of the, we were, uh, supplier of ferry for many years. With regard to all sorts of measure measurement machines, we were measuring time, we were also measuring temperature of the tires. We were the [00:10:00] first company to measure the temperature of the tires four Formula One.

So we, we've been, but by being associated to the very heart of the competition, we've seen those extraordinary moments when, when those drivers push their limits to a level that. That was rarely seen. The, the limit in terms of defying their fears of dying. These sports has been the most dangerous one. The the defying surpassing their physical limits.

Of course, we all remember ayrton senna shouting with pain. Because he had lost the, the, the, the gearbox was broken and he had to, to basically manipulate the car without the gearbox almost, and, and going beyond pain to win to get to the victory. So we've, we've experienced this and we, we believe in this capacity of people to surpass themselves.

And what is beautiful with Formula One, what, what, what those guys have managed to do with Formula One is, is exactly this. They've managed to expose. The rage to win the, the, the [00:11:00] jealousy, but also the energy, the concentration put to their maximum. And somewhat through the technology, we're exposing the best of what human beings can be, and that's where we share the philosophy with Formula One.

I.

Robin Swithinbank: Interesting to hear you talk about emotion beyond technology. That's quite a nice little pithy expression. Um, there is of course, uh, the question of whether the emotion is going to accelerate the business. This is the big question as far as TAG Heuer is concerned. As we know in, in Swiss watchmaking there is this sort of so-called 1 billion.

Swiss Franc Club. There are currently only seven thought to be seven I should say. Uh, watch brands in that category, uh, who have revenues of more than a billion Swiss francs a year. TAG Heuer is currently not one of them. Do you believe that the emotion in this partnership is going to propel the brand forward so that you, so that one day you can pick up your club card?

Antoine Pin: Uh, okay. So 2, 2, 2 points about this. Do I believe that emotion can drive the business and the desirability of the brand? I so much believe this. I so much believe that when you are [00:12:00] talking about luxury, you're talking about the business that talks to the souls and the hearts much more than the rational, than the brain. That's for sure. I believe we TAG Heuer will be part of the 1 billion, uh, sales, uh, club. Frankly, this is not my problem. I believe that if we are developing this desirability, numbers will come as a consequence at some point, but I don't think this is what, this cannot be a target per se. The target is to be. Emotionally appealing and rationally meaningful to the clients, but in, in such a focused and clear way that basically the connection with us is, is making full sense. And then in a way we are connecting with the community. Probably the Formula One community has lots of. Connections with us for that very, for the very reasons I, I shared.

But it's, it's somewhat to be, to be seen as a, as a logical partner [00:13:00] and a logical companion to this community because we share the same values and, and, and therefore to be a no-brainer when it comes to, to people looking for want to consider us. That's the job we have to do. I, I am, I am. I love this brand and I know why I love it, and it makes sense to me.

That's what we need to create in the mind and souls of people.

Robin Swithinbank: Maybe that's a good to,

Antoine Pin: And

Robin Swithinbank: sorry, go.

Antoine Pin: the, the, the 1 billion is a consequence. It's not an objective.

Robin Swithinbank: Maybe that's a good time to bring in the new Formula One collection, that this is going out on April the first, by which time we'll be at watches and Wonders, and the world will be fully aware of this new collection of, of colorful, uh, solar powered watches that you're about to introduce. The price point on those is around $1,800, which for Tag Heuer becomes a very accessible price point.

Um. Is this a watch, specifically targeting this new, younger, uh, even female audience who are perhaps discovering Formula One, uh, or discovering Tag Hoer Formula One for for the first time.

Antoine Pin: Yes, somewhat yes. I mean, it, it's 40 years ago, the watch was made to encourage people to discover watchmaking, uh, and was, [00:14:00] was a reasonable price point at the time. And, um, and as much as, uh. The, the, the, the, the Formula One is exposing itself to, to a new form of customers. I, I believe we have a role to expose watchmaking to a, to new categories of people.

And, and I think, again, having a product that are meaningful but also enjoyable, that are very positive in the way they're being designed, they're being developed. Uh, is a way to appeal to, uh, a new category of people and, and clearly a, a, an affordable price point. Uh, that is to say a, a price point that is, uh, slightly higher than, uh, than smart watches, but not crazy in terms of, uh, uh, in the price ladder allows to, uh.

To, to somewhat shout outside and say, Hey guys, come and see. Have a look at this product. It's connected to Formula One. It's fun, it's colorful. Um, it's, uh, it's bearing a caliber that is a very modern quar caliber because it's a solar quar. It's, uh, the solar graph, which is a ca, a caliber that we are, we've, we've co-developed and, uh, that we are using in our products.

It's a, it's basically a, it's a solar field battery that's lasting up to 15 years, so. When we are talking about values such as sustainability and, and, [00:15:00] and this is clearly a matching, uh, ticking, clicking the box as well. Um, so it's got a lot of, uh, let's say arguments to, to to expose to, to new clientele.

Absolutely.

Robin Swithinbank: Looking at the, the way that the Formula One audience works, uh, there's, there's a, he, there's an increasing audience size in the us. Um, we, we talked. About China already. Uh, and we recognize too that there is an increasing number of women according to Nielsen Sports, uh, a report that they put out in December last year.

41% of the Global Formula One audience is female. How is that going to shape your product strategy going forward? Currently, the Tag Hoya inventory is, is quite heavily masculine biased. Does that mean you're gonna be producing more watches for a, a female audience?

Antoine Pin: Uh, I, well, it's a tricky question. We do have an offer for ladies today. Uh, we do have a. I would call, uh, unisex sizes in many of our collections. Uh, we have an offer in, uh, in our, a collection in our Cara collection. We, we, we are now exposing Formula One, uh, in 38 millimeters, which is, uh, what you can, we can call unisex kind of size.

Um, we, we have a, [00:16:00] a history of, uh, exceptional successes. As well in, uh, with other ladies collections such as, uh, the link, uh, formally called the SEL collection, which was very, very, uh, balanced between genders. Um, so I guess, uh, like Formula One, we have a, a destiny to be quite universal in terms of age and, and, uh, and, and gender.

So probably there'll be new developments in, in ladies, but. It's not just Formula One, it's more the fact that the, the, it's more the global vision of, of the house that basically, uh, makes us feel we're we're addressing, uh, a very large clientele, just purely from a, from a, a pure, uh, vision perspective and, and positioning perspective.

And so, uh, so yes, there will be, uh, more development on the lady side.

David Sadigh: It's very interesting. Uh, Antoine, do you think that, uh, a brand like TAG Heuer still need a dedicated offer to women or that the approach is like moving towards fully genderless, uh, products? I.

Antoine Pin: Um, I, I don't, I, uh, it's interesting because, uh, somebody once told me that, uh, genderless was a, was was not a beautiful word that actually I. It should be gender full because Les is decreasing the value, I guess. Uh, I guess it's a, it's a person for Robin [00:17:00] who said it,

and I.

and I, and I love it. I love it. I think, I think we should, uh, emphasize the, the availability of our models from a size perspective, and that's what we do.

We should allow anyone to purchase whatever products they do. I don't like the idea that we are making products with no character. So probably some products will appeal to some categories of people and some will not. And that I, that I very much like, I like the fact that we are, we have distinctive designs that, and then we, I frankly, who am I to tell people what to wear and what to buy?

And, and my job is to make sure that our staff are not biased in that sense. And our job is to make sure that we have di uh, diversity in terms of, uh, wearability. So that everybody has access, um, uh, to, to our products here again, I believe that the values we're talking about from a brand perspective, uh, are very universal.

Uh, those values of, uh, that you can, you can I do. The strong conviction that we share as Tag Heuer is the fact that. We believe in the capacity of [00:18:00] people to surpass themself. We believe in inner strengths. This capacity that is not rational necessarily to make you achieve goals that were not even within reach, but still, you have this inside you. Wow. This is not a matter of age. This is not a matter of colour This is not a matter of gender. This is a, a, a description of what the, of the beauty of what human beings are about. And if we do believe that we have those universal values, first, we value. Mankind. And as such, we should be very, very, uh, welcoming to any population.

So it doesn't mean, conversely, it doesn't mean that all products fit all, all kinds of wrists and feel all tastes. So that's why I, I tend to, to really encourage our, our designers to, to bring a lot of character to the product and, and which means that they do not please everyone. But I don't think it's a matter of, uh, of, of gender so much.

Robin Swithinbank: That's a really interesting point. I, I, I suspect you're right. I think, uh, throughout this conversation we've been using words like universal global. Watches that everyone might consider. There's [00:19:00] a sort of, there's a sense of scale here. Um, and we've also talked about a watch, which is available from $1,800.

One of the things that you and I have talked about many times, Antoine, is this, this, this notion of volume. The Swiss watch industry has seen its volumes collapse drop by about 50% over the course of the last 15 years. Do you as TAG Heuer feel that you have a responsibility, but perhaps less than that? Or perhaps more reasonably than that, an opportunity to increase the annual volumes of watches produced in Switzerland by targeting this universal global audience of potential watch buyers.

Antoine Pin: You know, I believe that if you, if you take a, if you, if you, it took, let's say if you took a bit of distance and you look at the market, there's probably never been so many people wearing a watch worth more than $1,000 on their wrist. Except that it's a smart watch more than a mechanic watch. And if you take a, a second step back, this has already happened in the late seventies and earlier eighties, and it didn't prevent the watch industries whose watch industry to become stronger afterwards with working on the, on the actually exposure of the beauty of mechanical items.[00:20:00] 

I think it's really, um, I, I don't, I think it's, uh, it's somewhat history repeating itself. But we have certainly have a duty to expose the beauty of, uh, of watchmaking and particularly mechanical watchmaking, uh, to maintain the volumes because behind volumes, there are industrial manufacturing capacities.

There are watchmakers, there are people I. And this is the battle of, uh, the battle for the risk that we need to, we need to win the beauty of the current situation. And that's where I like this idea that it's an opportunity. Again, it's the fact that we have hundreds of millions of people today who are used to putting, uh, an expensive item on their wrists.

And so it's not that people have given up on the habit of wearing items on their wrists. They're, they're making a choice to use to some, so at this stage to wear a tool. Now, another interesting sign is the fact that, um, uh, we see a lot of women, uh, wearing today, uh, smart watches, but we don't see a drop in, uh, in the cells of mechanical, uh, watches to ladies.

And I think because women are used to, uh, wearing accessories and to. Using accessories, and I just think the way they're, were wearing [00:21:00] accessories to the moment in their lives here again, we have a role to play, to expose this, uh, this versatility of, of watches and how much they expose of your personality, of what you think or what, how much they represent your personal identity as much as a suit can, can, can do, or a car or any other item that, that, that's a part of somewhat of, of what the, uh. The wearable industry. It's not even the luxury industry, it's, it's more global than this, and obviously the luxury industry. This is what we have always done and we should do even more. I, I think there is a lot of responsibility within the industry and us as one of the important players of the industry.

We have this role to seduce.

Robin Swithinbank: Nicely put. Um, at the same time, uh, recognizing that you're producing a watch for $1,800 and, uh, producing them in some volume, I would imagine you're also releasing watches at the very high end of the spectrum. Watches with six figure. Price tags attached to them. What are the challenges for you as a watchmaker in creating watches that span this vast price spectrum and indeed mechanical technology spectrum?

Is [00:22:00] it possible to be both things at the same time? To be, dare I say, all things to all men?  

Antoine Pin: Um, what, what you are highlighting is the complexity of dealing with the diversity, because of course with prices there is the complexity of the products, et cetera. In reality, there is, um, there we, we have the, the chance to have one common point between all our products, and it's in the name of the, of the house.

It's tag, it's tag, it's technique, dal. We bring innovation to all our products. Obviously when the products go higher in price, there is more complex innovation. And, and I would actually take the parallel of Formula One again. Uh, many technologies that are today visible in the industry have started in Formula One.

So we see, uh, what we call or avantgarde, uh, uh, as a platform to develop. Uh, complex movement, but also new technologies that could eventually be used in much more affordable products. And, uh, there'll be more and more examples in the coming years. I'm thinking of, uh, of, uh, two examples, particularly in terms of materials that are being used, uh, this year in, uh, in very high-end products, and that will eventually be placed in much more affordable ones.

Um, that's the beauty of us. This is the, the, the fact we are lucky enough that we have this great, uh, what we call the tag lab. Which is really a, a research institute and, and, and of course this has a cost, but it helps us to move [00:23:00] forward in the technologies we're using. Sorry to interrupt.

Robin Swithinbank: No, not at all. I, Tatiana, we're getting very close actually, so I've only got a couple more questions really, but, uh, I just wanted to follow up. To follow through on that point. It is interesting that you use the example of car manufacturing. If we take Mercedes as the example, lots of technologies have always trickled down, uh, but not necessarily into other Mercedes, but into other brands.

So Mercedes makes a car for a hundred thousand dollars. It doesn't also make a car for $20,000. Um, I, I suppose what I'm interested to find out is whether is how you market a brand, which on the one hand is selling a quartz solar powered watch to an 18-year-old and also selling $150,000 retro pond to a collector who is, is interested in buying the, the elite and the low volume and the, the extreme.

Antoine Pin: That's the thing, the common point. Our capacity to surpass ourself and to innovate in all levels. And this comes and we, I was just mentioning the solar graph. So this, uh, solar, uh, battery, uh, caliber in, in the, so in, in the very enterprise. And, and I can anticipate to you that Formula One will be featuring a new material that we are developing inside of our, our lab right now in a couple of years in this material.

As such is being, uh, let's say paid for through [00:24:00] the sales of very high-end products for the, for the next 18 months. So this is exactly, but, but what we love to share is the fact we are talking about surpassing yourself as an individual. We like to think that avant garn, the technique avant garn. And this is, this is another form of expression of to sur about surpassing yourself.

And that's the philosophy we apply to our own caliber and our product development philosophy. That's what has been, uh, uh, constantly. And it's interesting because it's been constantly this form of, uh. Quest that the Heuer family had from the very beginning, uh, working in terms of precision of timekeeping to the one hundredths of a second, then to to, to the one thousandths of the second, then to five 10 thousandths of a second.

So this, this is also a philosophy in terms of product development, and this applies to price categories probably. It's, it's, it's much more complicated, somewhat at the very entry price level. Because you've got this question of price. When you go high end, you give yourself the, the flexibility to invest in r and d and, and somewhat to [00:25:00] amortize your r and d costs, uh, much more so.

Uh, putting, uh, innovation in our, in our expensive products is, is, is easier, somewhat, but the challenge happens throughout the whole, I mean, across the collection. And that's, that's what I think is, Tudor  

David Sadigh: The, fact is most of the, the competitors, uh, if I look at Breitling, if I look at two. R and so on. Uh, prices have significantly increased, uh, in the last, uh, uh, few years. So I find it quite interesting that basically, if I understood you right, um, there will be a strong offering, entry level offering, um, that aims at increasing the volumes, uh, therefore potentially impacting the average price, uh, uh, let's say a retail price of TAG heuer.

Is that correct?

Antoine Pin: It's, it's more complex than this because there is truly an a, a heavy underlying inflation. In Indus in the industry. Um, the Swiss Franc has been increasing throughout, uh, over the last five years, very, very significantly. Uh, raw materials prices have increased. I mean, we are impacted by the global inflation that's covered the recent [00:26:00] years as much as any other goods.

Uh, so there I, and, and that adds up to the fact that our clients are, are much more demanding than they used to be. It's, uh, it's, uh, it's regular to hear clients asking for five years warranty when the legal, uh, when the legal constraint is two years. Okay? Uh, and, and, and that's just one example, but then we are talking about traceability.

We're talking about new environmental constraints that are heavily impacting our development. The lead. Role, which basically prevents any, uh, lead elements from being used in, uh, in our, in our calibers is, is, is heavily impacting our, our developments. The same with, uh, the anti magnetism constraints that people do not want to, to suffer from.

So you can't, you can't expect to get, uh, a much more sophisticated and, and, uh, product answering the most complex constraints. At the same price. That's, I, I, I can't say that. So our battle is to keep a reasonable price on our product, and it's a complex [00:27:00] battle. But is it not? I mean, and, and here I'm, I'm, I really want to defend most of my clients, my or my colleagues, because we are dealing with this explosion of our costs.

And, and unfortunately, as much as, as we would love to, uh, to, uh, absorb them, it's impossible to, to. So we, we are a bit like any actor of the economic, uh, world these days. We have to reflect a reality, an economic reality, which is making our products more and more

expensive. expensive. 

Robin Swithinbank: Antoine, let's start that again. Antoine, it, it's been a, an absolute delight talking to you and I, we are so grateful, uh, that you come onto this, uh, to the Luxury Society Podcast as our very first, uh, guest. Uh, you are an incredibly generous man. Thank you for sharing those views and sharing your time with us.

We, uh, we wish you all the best for this season and indeed the next nine beyond.

Antoine Pin: Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm very honored that, that I've been picked actually, uh, I really appreciate. I wish you the best for the podcast as well.

David Sadigh: Thank you, Ana.

Antoine Pin: See you soon.

Robin Swithinbank: Right. Moving on. David and I are now delighted to welcome onto the pod Marie LaSow Digital Luxury Group's head of Social Media, who joins us to open up some of the data that explains why the LVMH F1 deal [00:28:00] might be worth at least $1 billion to its brands over the course of the next decade.

Marie, a very warm welcome to to the pod. I gather that as well as being a social media maestro. You are also a bit of an F1 nut.

Marie Le Scao: Yes, I am indeed. And thank you so much for having me today. I'm so happy to get an opportunity to talk about Formula One once again, and my family and friends are going a bit developable about it

Robin Swithinbank: Good stuff. Good stuff. Well, before we look at any numbers, um, give us an idea of what makes Formula One such fertile ground for luxury brands.

Marie Le Scao: The amazing thing about F1 is that you know that grants brands an amazing visibility. So obviously we know that there's the opportunity of the paddock, the racetrack. You can create an event around that hosting your clients. Getting a way to approach, you know, new audiences. But these new audiences are mostly coming from the digital ecosystem that's brought up by Formula One itself brought up by also Netflix in a way with drive to survive and also racing teams drivers, they gather an impressive numbers of commutative followers.

If we take everything, we are at four, uh, around 434. Community followers. So you know, that's close, quite close to the 1 billion follow watchers around the world.

Robin Swithinbank: I haven't quite followed that. Marie, what can you, would you be able to say that again? I didn't quite

David Sadigh: can say just followers. Uh, you, we can record it again. Yeah.

Marie Le Scao: So studying the world in,

David Sadigh: No, no, just this part.

Robin Swithinbank: the, so the slide three stuff, so yeah, just, just say that bit again about the other followers.

Marie Le Scao: yeah, so the. The opportunity to get those new audiences are mostly coming from the digital ecosystem. Formula One is bringing to the brands. You can get close to 434 community followers, 434 million followers. Um, community followers. If we are looking at driver followers. We are looking at the racing [00:29:00] team, followers and also Formula One itself or even Netflix and drive to survive.

David Sadigh: Do you mind if we redo it? Sorry. Uh, Robin, let me maybe just jump in here. Uh, let's redo it just straight, like, uh, this ecosystem, the Formula One ecosystem is huge. Supported by digital ecosystem. This digital ecosystem, formula One drivers and so on. Just make it a bit more straight to the point if you can.

Marie Le Scao: Okay. Digital ecosystem can bring to brands an impressive amount of cumulative followers looking out drivers racing teams, formula One, Netflix. Also, thanks to Drive to Survive, we reach a Communative follower of 434 millions that close to the total number of, you know, formula One watches, but just with digital.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah. What we're seeing is the TV audience and the fan base, uh, for Formula One are growing and, and also diversifying. Um, we've been looking at a report, uh, put out by Nielsen Sports in December that suggest there are now 1.5 billion people who tune in at some point during the Formula one season. Um, and the fan numbers are shot up by 50 million to 750 million since 2021.

Uh. Well, largely because of the Drive to Survive series, as we've, uh, as we've, as you've mentioned, 41% of those fans are also now women. So what opportunities do we now see for luxury brands if they are to move into Formula One other than simply reach.

Marie Le Scao: The opportunity is you can speak to your clients. But also potentially the younger generations and making sure that they learn about your brand right from the starts. You can also embrace the values and the positioning of the racing team or the driver you are supporting, [00:30:00] sponsoring, and at the same time getting a platform to show the lifestyle that the Formula One, you know, um, is pushing.

There's. Every ingredients to the glamorous lifestyle of I networths ultra networth individuals. You get the opportunity to travel around the world. You get the opportunity to attend exclusive dinners, speak to one of the 20 racers. You know, there's scarcity. That's totally. Embracing the industry of Formula One because you can do as much as you want compared to every other sports in the world.

There's only 20 drivers on the grid and that you cannot change it. So getting the opportunity to present this kind of speakers to the younger generation you try to reach to maintain the level of awareness around your brand or present to your today's clients, that's quite impressive. And we can see all industries.

Around the luxury, um, are doing it from private banking to spirits watchmaking, of course, and even beauty. Now, thanks to the F1 Academy.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah. One of the interesting things about this, of course, is that it's, it's pushing the price up of, uh, a Formula One sponsorship. [00:31:00] Just going back to that, uh, Nielsen Sports Report, um, my understanding from it is that the average size of a deal is up by 56% on pre pandemic figures from 2.87 billion in 20, uh, that should be 2.87 million in 2019 to 5.08 million today.

So. Deals are significantly up. Does that make it harder for luxury brands to break in now?

Marie Le Scao: I don't think so. I think that's the only, the beginning because when you are looking at this, so the reports communicated by Nielsen that speaks about around when the first season of drive to survive, uh, had been launched. 2019. And at the time, not all of the racing teams were part of, um, the show, uh, you know, from very famous racing teams didn't want to take part of, of the show at that moment.

And now they are all part of it. Um, so I think even if the price increased, that doesn't match how much the sport, you know, uh, increased and gained a lot of viewers. So that's quite impressive. And make it a right deal to, to make right now.

Robin Swithinbank: David, at this point, do you want to ask a question about the specifics of social media coming with a digitally led

David Sadigh: Yeah, I, I can, um. Marie, is it fair to assume that a big part of the success behind Formula One is the driver is made by the dr. Let me do it again. Uh, Uh, Marie, is it fair to assume that a big part of the success of this wall, formula One, uh, platform is tied to the drivers [00:32:00] and especially to the next generation of drivers, uh, who seems to be extremely connected and highly influential across social media platform?

Marie Le Scao: Yeah, we can definitely assume that drivers are, you know, uh, uh, an amazing opportunity represents an amazing opportunity for the brands and the sponsors also, because you can see that, um, most of the time there's more and more, um. Sponsors that are trying to get a deal not only with the racing team, but also the drivers, because that grant them the opportunity to appear on their platforms.

And that's true that when we're looking at the current grid, you can definitely see that, you know, um, older drivers study their careers without the need or the necessity to, you know, uh, be active on social media. Didn't have this reflex while younger drivers had the. Just needed to do that, to get the opportunity in, uh, you know, junior categories to get a sponsorship that will put them potentially, um, in the F1, uh, industry.

David Sadigh: So your assumption is that the following base of those [00:33:00] younger drivers is going to increase significantly in the years to come?

Marie Le Scao: Yeah, I definitely think because there's also a matter of, you know, matching the audience's, um, age and the age pyramid. Um, you know, thanks to the younger drivers, you get the opportunity to embark right from the start. Um, at the moment, like. Teenagers, young adults, and if they start to love Formula One now, they will only continue to, you know, follow it, follow the drivers.

They start to love one specific drivers and fall into the sports, and then they continue watching it.

David Sadigh: And, and onto one, uh, a couple of minutes ago, mentioned how important the emotion part, uh, was for, uh, for tag hire. Do, do you have any comment on that and how to convey those emotions using social media and digital channels? I.

Marie Le Scao: What's truly funny around those emotions is that, um, you know, you can leave it right on the paddock. So as part of your event with your clientele, with the guests, you want to, you know, uh, have around you when as a brand you are creating something around your partnership right on track. So that's an amazing opportunity and as.

Mentioned it for tag year. If you are, um, there at the Australian race and you can see that for yourself, your guests are seeing that for themselves. They get this feeling that money can't buy because you know yet you can be a high net worth individual, TryNet worth individual, and that's something you cannot purchase because you were there, you witnessed this from with your very own eyes, [00:34:00] but at the same time, from this moment, you can create.

Great piece of content that you can distribute at scale on all of your social platforms and that other clients, other prospects can engage with and, you know, get a sense of being a part of.

David Sadigh: So, so my understanding is that, Robin, you have some memorable experiences which happened to you, I think linked to Formula One. Am I correct?

Robin Swithinbank: Money can't buy experiences. Well, as I occasionally ID out on the fact that I, I, I gave Kylie Manoa a glass of champagne on her birthday at, uh, the Monaco Grand Prix when I was, uh, well, I was there as the guest of Ta Ho. I probably ought to concede that at this point. Uh, yes. Uh, this, and this is a, a story which, um, well maybe we'll come back to it another time on the podcast, but yes, I was, I was a little bit tongue tied and I suddenly becoming a little bit tongue tied again at the prospect of talking about my encounter with.

The, the delightful Miss Mano. Um, well look, um, that, that makes it a little bit more tangible. Uh, but, but, uh, for me personally, of course, but, um, Marie, help us  uh, with, with making this a bit more tangible, who, who's done this well? Are there any brands that have, have really leveraged Formula One successfully over the past five, 10 years or so who have become almost the template for other luxury brands as they enter into the ecosystem?

Marie Le Scao: I think the great thing as for luxury brands is that we cannot really say that there's a template yet because they are all, you know, trying to navigate around this. It's still quite new, so there's a, a lot of, you know, room to invent your own model. But the, the brand I'm really fond of, uh, around Formula One is richard mille Meal because I think they managed to, you know, accomplish at the same time the.

Experience. So they are bringing to their most loyal clients, you know, collectors, the opportunity to get a private dinner with London Norris, who they sponsor through McLaren F1. [00:35:00] So they have that, they have also the idea of, um, organizing an event around the experience at the Abu Dhabi race. So there are.

Inviting, you know, collectors, again, clients to attend the race, and also having a watch presentation at the same time. Um. Around the paddock, but also they are communicating around it very well on social media because they use that as pieces of content. They created a real nice spot, uh, two years ago with um, ferry the Code Ferry.

They are also sponsoring, featuring drivers. At the time they were Charlotte CLA and Carlos Science, and we got the opportunity to dis discover. An exclusive model that was the ahem ferri, but also at the same time giving this inside this, those ins of the drivers and how, you know, they behave, uh, around track look.

David Sadigh: So the, the secret recipe if we, uh, follow you well is like a mix of like blending, curated, exclusive events with social media activation and ideally exclusive product launches.

Marie Le Scao: Yeah, that's definitely the way to make the most of it, because you know, like for example, if you are just being a regular sponsor and appearing on the racing suits and on the car. That's great. But just look at how many logos there are. All around 20 cars, A lot of logos on every cars. The, the amount of drivers there are, there are new teams that are considering entering F1.

So the only way to stand out from the crowd, um, that's to design something specific around your sponsorship and making sure that you make. All of these 24 race a year events, an opportunity to reach, create something specific for your current clients, but also at the same time getting awareness image, pieces of content that you can broadcast on your digital channel to express the lifestyle philosophy of the brand.

Robin Swithinbank: What's quite interesting about this is that, uh, we're now seeing almost a sort of paramount example of how a brand might create what I've heard described as a a Nirvana marketing moment. In fact, I'll credit the CMO of TAG Heuer, George Siz with saying this to me. He said, we've got the Marketing Nirvana moment, uh, which uh, means that we are the official timekeeper of the sport.

We have the best team. Uh, well that's debatable, of course. Uh, but they at least have the team, uh, the Red Bull team. Uh, and they also have the World Champion. And then when it comes to Monica, they will have naming rights to the race as well. So in Monaco, I mean, it's, it is the Nirvana moment. They have the, the sort of, the four big elements will all be Tag Hoer branded.

I. Um, so Tyco appear to be, um, activating this extremely well by comparison. Of course, we've just seen Rolex spend 11, 12 years in the sport while only serving as official timekeeper and putting up lots of hoardings, that kind of thing. Maybe they did more, but it wasn't perhaps as visible. Do you think they, uh, they missed their opportunity slightly.

Marie Le Scao: Honestly, I think they did, especially in the last years. Because of course, when they started to sponsor Formula One, there wasn't this whole, you know, um, content enthusiasm at the time. Um, formula One was a sport that was a bit in decline, and what Liberty Media managed to achieve is to make sure that the sport.

Doesn't die and we can gain some new fans, new viewers. So in the last couple of years, they had an opportunity. They, I assume, only willingly chose to not activate, but we can see that with what. Tager is doing is that they get the full package because otherwise, as I previously mentioned, OEX, they add great placement for the logo, but that's only a picture.

And winning the battle is really making sure that you have the world champion carrying one of your [00:36:00] watch. While he is celebrating on the podium, and that's something you want to be a part of. You know, as a, you are as a fan, as a follower, you get to see like, oh, you know, getting a piece of this watch can be feeling a bit like this guy is feeling on the podium as well.

So that's really cool.

Robin Swithinbank: Now to our final segment, which we very wily dubbed on the download, and I'm delighted to say I'm joined by Benedict Satter, d G's partner and international client director, who in each episode of the pod, is gonna share a sort of digital gem, something that throws some light on the luxury world using data gathered by DLG and its sister company rehab in China.

So Benny, welcome to the pod, to the pod, everything well.

Benedicte: Yeah. Thank you very much. It's great to be here.

Robin Swithinbank: So what have you got for us in this first episode?

Benedicte: I'd like to talk about the fastest growing luxury retail destination right now. And no, it's not China, it's India. You know the watchmaking industry very well. So I'll come to. It has no surprise to you that Swiss watch exports to the country grew by 25% in revenue last year, but Yeah. But did you know that it's also where Hermes, Louis Vuitton and the gag Lafayette opened some [00:37:00] of their latest flagship stores?

Robin Swithinbank: I did not know that. No,

Benedicte: Well, aside from those, what really put India back on the map for many luxury professionals last year was the Banney wedding. It was a pure display of wealth all over Pat, Philipp, Paris, male, uh, every guest, you know, what was wearing like a. Was wearing one of them, but what we observed was a direct effect that all the social media posts and, you know, press conversations around the wedding had on search demand generated for these same brands.

Take IL for instance, a series demand on Google Triple over the period of the wedding from Imagine, you know, 200. Thousand searches a month to over 700,000 on the same, like on the, the month, Friday after on Google, just in India, just over that period. And others are really now like, you know, picking up on all these strand of, you know, being warned by Bollywood icons and superstars.

Uh, you have Jacobin Cook for instance, very recently, um, who was working with Sal K, the, the Bollywood actor. Hadoop as well has been hugely benefiting, you know, for years now, [00:38:00] from that closed relationship with, um, you know, with Body Wood icons to the point that today in India, their search demand is basically double or more the volume of taura longing and to door combine.

Robin Swithinbank: That's incredible. I, that, that's, I remember hearing that statistic from you guys when, um, I was talking to you last year for a piece about Rado. Um, I, I couldn't believe, uh, to be, without wanting to be disparaging towards Rado that it's, uh, its search levels in India are, are so astronomically high compared with, uh, brands that's, uh, are more established in, in my mind and, and in my mind would command a greater level of interest.

Um, that that's one of the most astonishing pieces of, uh, of data I think I've ever heard.

Benedicte: Yeah, you're completely right and it's a totally different story. For instance, if you look at the us, the US market, well, ura, long door like dominate, but in India they're, they're the king in that price segment that is.

Robin Swithinbank: I mean it's, I mean we obviously you are reporting on, on a, a growth in interest for luxury brands in India. Experts have been saying this is gonna happen for years and that we should be watching out for India. Is this next big thing tag finally merited.

Benedicte: Yeah, completely. It's actually the big thing right now and, you know, brands really need to be, to be visible, uh, in the country. And, um, do you want me to cut or.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah. Yeah. Keep going. Keep going.

Benedicte: Okay.

Robin Swithinbank: go. So go, go back to start, start your ans start, start your again. Start your answer again about it being the next, uh, being the big thing. So it's just, it's not the next big thing. It's the big thing.

Benedicte: Your, your com. Like it's actually not the next big thing. It's the big thing right now. And it's super important for brands, for luxury, luxury brands to be visible there. They need to get, you know, closer to those, you know, faces of influence. Uh, they need to have ideally, you know, presence, physical presence in the country, either through their own boutiques or retailers.

But you know, those brands who do not have those, uh, shouldn't despair because what we have also seen throughout data. Is that many brands who do not have stores over there have basically still managed to market to those, you know, Indian [00:39:00] based ultra high net of individuals using meta or, you know, display advertising to ensure that when those people are, you know, traveling abroad, they're actually familiar with the brand and ready to buy.

Robin Swithinbank: Wonderful bene. Thank you. Great start. Um, we'll see you soon again. Uh, no doubt. Thanks for being with us. Right. David, you've been listening to all that. Uh, India is already a big thing. We hear from Benet. Let's just, um, record that, um, outro again. Um, because after I say to you, uh, you know, uh, talk to you soon kind of thing.

Just say thanks or thanks. See you next time bene. Thank you. Uh, we will, uh, sorry. Don't worry. Be Thank you. That's, um, a fascinating, uh, insight, um, uh, to, to. I'm gonna go back and start that again. I think it's something interesting to, there's something of value to throw in. Uh, thank you for, uh, for kicking that off, uh, for the, the first on the download.

Um, all about the, um, the, the changing, uh, sorry, my head, something gone blank. I'm, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna read out what we got here. Thank you and, uh, fascinating insights for the first on the download. We will, uh, no doubt speak again very soon.

Benedicte: You're very welcome. See you next time. No, not see you. I'll do it again. Well, you know. No, no. It's all, It's just natural

Robin Swithinbank: it is it, I think because it's the natural thing to say. It sound, it'll sound natural when people

Benedicte: yeah, so I wouldn't worry too much.

I'll still record it. Just one more. I.

Robin Swithinbank: One more Benet. Thank you. Fascinating insights for the first on the download. We will, uh, talk again very soon. No doubt.

Benedicte: You're very welcome. Until next time,

Robin Swithinbank: Right. David, you've been listening to all that. Uh, India already a big thing. Good. Okay.

Benedicte: we should be around like 3 34. So I think with the edits that should, uh.

Robin Swithinbank:  Bene. Thank you. We'll see you again soon. No doubt. Right. David, you've been listening into all of that.

India is already a big thing.

David Sadigh: You know, You know, it was quite a fascinating, uh, uh, first uh, edition of the podcast. I hope that, uh, listeners will have, uh, will have enjoyed, uh, indeed I think the, the India part, uh, is now, and, uh, I'm pretty sure we are going to continue talking about that, uh, in the next, in some of the next episode. Now, now I, I wanted to get back and get your thoughts, Robin, on the Formula One part.

It seems that, uh, we are at a very interesting moment, uh, with this partnership, not only for TAG Heuer, not only for LVMH, but globally speaking for luxury and lifestyle brands willing to embrace this, uh, uh, let's say Formula One trend. Um, what, what, what are your takes on this first episode?

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, I agree. I goodness. It was, it's been fascinating to to hear Antoine's [00:40:00] insights and then to talk with about. Um, the scope of the opportunity. I, I honestly think that we're gonna look back at 2025 as an inflection point. Um, probably for Formula One, certainly, uh, for the way that luxury brands interact with Formula One and how they use it to amplify their profiles, their people, their position, their product, all of it.

Um, and it's my honest belief that over the course of the next 10 years. I don't wanna over overhype it, but Will explode. Um, TAG Heuer is already, uh, well recognized as a, as a brand that, uh, has a motoring heritage and it's traded off that pretty well over time. It's had a, a fairly inconsistent decade or so.

I mean, really it's 20 years since TAG Heuer was last, formally the official timekeeper of Formula One. And I think that I think that that has limited that, that the lack of that relationship has limited TAG Heuer ability to grow this new partnership. Just, it does feel so natural. I don't wanna sound like, you know, a representative of TAG Heuer, but from the outside looking in, there does seem to be a really natural synergy here, which I think can only help, particularly because we now live in an age [00:41:00] where there are so many ways to communicate with the audience.

So many different, um, exciting and emotional elements, um, which ultimately should, I would imagine without being an expert in these things, should lead to increased sales. What do you think?

David Sadigh: I think that the competitive landscape is an interesting one for, for tag because you have like some rock solid brands such as Longin. You have like fast growing brands such as Tudor, backed by Rolex. Obviously you have writing, and we all know the story of the private equity backed George K led. Uh, Brightling and the results that they have been, uh, generating over the last couple of years.

So I think this, like a price segment battleground will be extremely interesting to follow in the years to come and look, I'm with you. I think that, uh, it's a pivotal moment and, uh, uh, as far as the communication marketing part is concerned, I have no doubt that Formula One is a once. In, uh, let's say 50 years opportunity.

Uh, and, uh, it's like, uh, uh, probably something that if TAG Heuer managed to really nail also in term of product offering, [00:42:00] I think that would be one of the key is like, are they able to connect their product offering to this audience? Uh, but I have no doubt whatsoever that the engagement and the, the results of their marketing will be really strong.

So that's something, uh, we'll be eager to follow.

Robin Swithinbank: I completely agree with you. And when, when the announcement was first made back in January, there was, uh, well, we, we hadn't heard, uh, as press as, as punters. We hadn't heard about this new Formula One collection and this $1,800 watch, which is being launched at launches, watches, and wonders This week, that product opens up the category to this new Gen Z, increasingly female, increasingly international audience in a way that some of the existing takeaway inventory.

Doesn't. Um, and I think that's critical, and I think that they will, what I suspect we will see over the next few years is Taho build out that category. That's sort of what's often known as the mid-market category. What is price between, let's say for argument's sake, $1,500 and $5,000? We've also seen B Brightling coming into that space more.

They're talking about galley coming into that space next year with a, with a new range of chronographs. F Lober was launched, relaunched last year with products in that category [00:43:00] there. There's suddenly a sense there's some more energy in that. Mid-market segment where a lot of the volume has been lost, a lot of the revenues have been lost in recent years, and of course, ultimately a lot of the customers have been lost.

So I, this, this for me becomes quite a pivotal partnership between TAG Heuer and Formula One for reinvigorating a segment of the Swiss watch market, which has been, uh, left behind over the last five or 10 

David Sadigh: Yeah. And then just maybe a last word to counterbalance a bit the hype around Formula One. Um, I think, let's not forget that the Olympics got quite a strong momentum in Paris, uh, in 2024. And that, uh, the next one, the next summer Olympics will be in Los Angeles. And knowing the American, I'm pretty sure that they are like going to create something.

To, uh, raise the bar of what, uh, uh, Paris, uh, did so I wouldn't bury the Olympics. I think that, uh, they might be interesting, but the reality is that there are not so many global platform with very strong reach, both in mature markets, but also in emerging markets. And I'm pretty sure that we're going to see new major sponsorship being announced in the two years to [00:44:00] come 

Robin Swithinbank: Well, Well, David, I think we should probably wrap it up. That is the end of our first episode. The, 

David Sadigh: already. 

Robin Swithinbank: Well, I know we're having so much fun. It's  um, end of the first episode of the Luxury Society podcast. We are, we are on air. We're live. We go. Um, we will, uh, look forward to, uh, rejoining for the next episode and many more to come.

I'm sure.

Thank you, Robin. 

Take care. See you soon. 

Robin Swithinbank: Thank you. Is that coming through?

Thank you for listening to the Luxury Society Podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode and would like to hear more, don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to go deeper into any of these topics, check out luxury society.com where you'll find stories, insights, and profiles that unpack what's going on in the world of luxury right now.

I've been your host, Robin Swen Bank, and this has been the Luxury Society Podcast available on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you for listening to the Luxury Society Podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode and would like to hear more, don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to go deeper into any of these topics, check out luxury society.com where you'll find stories, insights, and profiles that unpack what's going on in the world of luxury right now.

I've been your host, Robin Swithinbank, and this has been the Luxury Society Podcast available on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.