Luxury in turmoil: how to survive the crisis

In this third episode of the Luxury Society Podcast, Robin Swithinbank and David Sadigh discuss the ever-evolving world of luxury following Trump’s tariff announcements. 

Key topics include: 

• LVMH’s Q1 Performance: Sales missed expectations with a 5% shortfall. Fashion & leather goods saw a 5% dip, and issues at their Texas site raise quality concerns.
• Hermès on the Rise: Surpasses LVMH’s market cap (briefly). Touted as a “tech stock in disguise” due to tight supply control, no discounting, and high investor confidence.
• The China Question: Is China luxury’s comeback kid in 2025? Max Peiro from DLG’s Re-Hub dives into the Q4 Compass Index to assess digital and e-commerce performance across 150+ brands in China.

Brought to you by https://digitalluxurygroup.com/ 

Follow us @digitalluxurygroup & @robin_swithinbank on Instagram

Produced by Juliet Fallowfield, 2025 www.fallowfieldmason.com

Transcript

Main ep: RS DS itw

Robin Swithinbank: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Luxury Society Podcast, brought to you by Digital Luxury Group. I'm your host, Robin Swithinbank

David Sadigh: and I am your cohost, David Sadigh.

Robin Swithinbank: In this podcast, David and I will take you on a deep dive into the multi-billion dollar world of luxury, asking how it works, who's making giant strides, who's battling into the headwinds, and who's taking everyone else by surprise. In this episode, we'll be looking at some of the big news stories currently shaping luxury from Trump's

tariffs to the skyrocketing value of gold and indeed how events beyond their control are impacting the biggest names in the sector. Later we'll be pounding the data and examining the behaviors of the luxury brands, turning up the heat in China and asking whether 2025 might just be the year China turns a corner.

So David on with a show? 

David Sadigh: Let's do it.

Robin Swithinbank: Well, David, let's first cast, uh, as discerning an eye as we might over some of the Q1 results that have been filtering through [00:01:00] in this Easter season. LVMH reported last week. Uh, the unwelcome news was that it had undershot its targets by 5% between January and March with sales down 3% against forecast growth of 2%.

Did that news come as a surprise to you?

David Sadigh:  uh, not so common now to see lh, uh, struggling. Um. Minus 11% in Asia White and Spirit Division, seriously challenged. That was not a surprise. Uh, but no growth around the business. And I think that's the, LVM H not being able to, uh, generate growth across at least one of their business division.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, there was very marginal growth, wasn't there in the Washington jewelry sector, which, uh, Washington jewelry division even, which, uh, I suppose came as a surprise That reverses the trend of, of recent quarters. We also seen, we we're seeing that. The beauty market has been underperforming, particularly in the us.

Sephora, uh, apparently very aggressively priced by Amazon has been hurting, uh, has been hurting LVMH. Um, but yes, the, the weakness in Asia continues to be a significant problem. Um, and indeed fashion leather goods, uh, posting a 5% fall [00:02:00] in sales when it counts for more than 75% of their profit. And this, of course, is all before. Before the dread dreaded tariffs, uh, come into play, 20%. Uh, tariffs on EU goods we believe will be implemented at some point, uh, in the future by the US and 31% on LVMH's Swiss watch brands. Um, the outlook may not be quite so positive then.

David Sadigh: Yeah,  uh, that's right. And I think at the same time, panel LVMH faced like a number of issue, not exactly the right timing. Yeah. Uh, you probably heard of the Texas, uh, site, uh, factory. Uh, apparently LVMH encountered like quality issues. Uh, there were like some serious reporting around that with more than 10 firm employees being interviewed.

Uh, did you know, by the way, Robin, that, uh, Louis Vuitton was like, uh, crafting handbags in Texas?

Robin Swithinbank: Uh, before you sent me the story, I honestly didn't, uh, I, I'd missed the news that, uh, Mr. Trump visited the site, uh, back during his first term as president of the US to, uh, to cut the ribbon on that Texas site. But, uh, yeah, some of the details coming in, uh, through, in that story are genuinely horrifying. I mean, a huge percentage, I forget exactly what it was, but a huge percentage of the bags are clearly failing these quality tests, uh, and simply [00:03:00] being trashed, burnt. Um, it suggests that this sort of, the. Of course this, this idea that somehow America might be able to compete with Europe when it comes to producing luxury goods. It suggests that that theory, it might not stand there, stand up  uh, to much scrutiny.

David Sadigh: Yeah, on my side I thought that, uh, if LVMH was already quite active in the, in the US and uh. Producing a couple of handbags there. Maybe that was the beginning of something. And that's with the pressure of the Trump administration. Maybe we are going to see some of those jobs like flying from Europe to the, to the us.

But uh, your quality point is probably a critical one.

Robin Swithinbank: Well, I think the challenge is that these things can take generations to instill, uh, these European brands, these European luxury brands. Very few of them have been born overnight. Most of them are, uh, decades, if not centuries old. And replicating that in a country that has doesn't have the same traditions is, is gonna be very, very difficult. We'll see how that one goes, but it does strike me that that story couldn't really have been timed any worse. Um, what's interesting of course, is that. Um, one of the thing, one of the consequences of of lvm H's, uh, report, uh, and indeed stories such as that in Texas briefly, uh, brought its, uh, market cap below that of Hermes. Um, Um, [00:04:00] IMEs had a very good year last year. Some its revenues were up by 15% of constant exchange rates compared to 2023. Um, but it was nonetheless, I, I would say still a surprise to see that, Hermes, it's, uh, briefly, even though it was, uh, should have a market, cap that was, uh, higher than that of LVMH.

David Sadigh: Yeah, RS is a fascinating story. Uh, it's Uh, considered by many, not just only in the luxury industry as the one of the ultimate, uh. Let's say enduring, uh, stock. They have a tight control over supply, no discounting, unmatched pricing power. Uh, and you get to that like the family led long-term vision, uh, and extremely clean financial.

That's why our friends at Bernstein called them the stock of all season. Uh, so I think even with 10% of, uh, US tariff they didn't blink, uh, they kept price steady. They are still growing, uh, two digit number on the leather goods business. And, uh, you know, the most surprising fact about Hermes valuation, Robin,

Robin Swithinbank: Go on.

David Sadigh: their valuation is one of a tech company, uh, uh, 15 times their total revenue versus four or five for [00:05:00] LVMH and Montclair.

So it's not just a luxury brand in fact, we can say Hermes is some kind of tech giant. That's the marketing. This is not cyclical fashion. It's a structural asset. Just like Apple has iPhone loyalty, Hermes has some Birkin scarcity and both translate into pricing power, margin res resilience, and obviously investor confidence.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, it's strange thing, isn't it, to describe Hermes as a tech giant, um, when of course, uh, primarily it's, uh, it's business is, is craftsmanship, um, which is, uh, a glorious irony in some ways. It's all, it fascinates me. I, I sat next to Guillaume de Seynes at, uh, a dinner a couple of years ago. Guillaume is, uh, sixth generation of the Hermes family and he's executive vice president of the group's manufacturing division. Um, and I asked him why his company, it was specific reference at that point to, to their watch division, which, um, which at that point was in the process of tripling in size over the course of three years, why it was outperforming the market. Um, and, and he said in fairly matter of fact terms, quite simply that it was because they, they know their customers.

Um, and I don't think that he meant that simply in terms of [00:06:00] having their data, because of course they sold directly to them. But, uh, they know their habits, they know their preferences, they know their taste, I think would probably be a better word. Um, what, what strikes me as interesting about that of course, is that at the moment we're seeing a little bit of reluctance, uh, among luxury brands to continue to invest in their direct to consumer businesses.

The number of boutiques, a lot of brands are, are operating around the world, are starting to, they're starting to reduce those numbers. One or two of the brands I spoke to at Watches and Wonders, for example, um, who I won't cite at this point, I think because these were off the record, conversations have plans this year to reduce the number of boutiques they're operating around the world. Um, now Hermes of course doesn't have a gazillion boutiques, but its model suggests there remain huge advantages in the direct to consumer model. Um, I dunno whether you've got any data that backs anything, uh, backs that up. David, any sort of insights from from your business, which can give us an indication as to what's happening there.

David Sadigh: So something we have noticed is that obviously the end-to-end approach and fully integrated uh, uh, model with 17 different metier, uh, within Hermès, uh, makes it kind of a special company. Um, but in my opinion, the, the secret behind [00:07:00] Hermès is the fact that they always keep higher brand desirability than offer.

And, uh, you might have seen that while everyone is thinking about increasing prices in the US at the moment, Hermès didn't announce any price increase.

Robin Swithinbank: Well, not yet. Not yet. Uh, a a day is a long time in the luxury world at the moment. We'll see where that, where that goes. Um, once the Easter to break is over. Uh, one of the interesting things that we observed in the past week also was that. Prada bought out Versace, taking it outta family hands for the first time. Another example of sort of consolidation of brands into luxury groups. This dynamic DY dynamic still powering forward. Um, while of course most luxury businesses have seen their price, uh, their luxury, sorry. While most luxury businesses have seen their share price dip considerably in the last a couple of weeks since, uh, Trump introduced his tariffs, uh, pri prior to share price, briefly rallied on that news, but then dipped again and then appears to be recovering once more. It does sort of beg the question of whether with all these businesses sort of struggling at the moment and with the outlook looking a bit, little bit gloomy, if not very gloomy, whether it's gonna prove to be a season of acquisitions, uh, whether we can, whether we expect these groups to continue to grow in size. Do you have much, much insight there, David? Any thoughts as to whether or not we're gonna see these

David Sadigh: Uh, uh, it's funny that you, uh, that you mentioned Versace and the, the Prada acquisition of Versace. Uh, I read an interesting perspective from, uh, uh, Susan and Nicoti, the luxury and fashion, uh, expert on author. She, uh, [00:08:00] often has contrarian views, uh, and she was herself quoting, uh, nassim nicola taleb  uh, the economist saying, in spite of what is studied in business school consulting concerning economies of scale.

Size hurts you at time of stress. It is not a good idea to be large during difficult times.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, I suppose the, uh, the, the old adage that to be nimble, to be agile, uh, when things get difficult is, is one that might apply at this point. But, uh, well, we'll see. We'll see.

Okay. 

David Sadigh: Acquiring a company, acquiring a company. I'm doing it again. You know, acquiring a company and trying to, uh, bridge the culture and like align the financials and embarking the people in new, in a new journal. It was not good. Let's forget about it. Um, I'm doing it the last time. Uh, Robin, you.

Robin. I think that, uh, acquiring a company, uh, can be like a difficult challenge. So, uh, especially when you have like to, uh, bring thousand of employees, uh, make them like stick to, uh, a new vision and try to foster the right culture and so on. Uh, maybe that's the, that's not the best timing for that.

Robin Swithinbank: Okay,

well. good. You can cut that. Uh, Juliet, if you hear I'm not happy with it.

Let's see. Um, should we, should we move into the next section then?

David Sadigh: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Robin Swithinbank: Uh, I think Juliet just, um, may maybe cut that one after the quote from Naem, Nicolas Teller. Um, and then, I can't remember if I said something briefly after that, but, um, yeah, cut this bit out. Um, let's introduce this one. Yeah, well, I

guess. 

David Sadigh: You Gimme one sec bin.

Robin Swithinbank: Yep. Taking on fluids wise,

David Sadigh: Yeah. Perfect.

Robin Swithinbank: right? Sorry, Gillette. Cut out that 62nd segment in one big cut. Right. Uh, onto. So, uh, we, we've seen tariffs coming onto the agenda. We've got underperforming brands and groups, a volatile stock market. Of course, there is one inevitability as a consequence of all of this, and that is that the price of gold, uh, has continued to soar. Uh, last week we saw that prices race past [00:09:00] $3,300 an ounce, which, uh, is a thousand dollars an ounce more than a year ago. That's how fast the price of gold has been go going up over the past 12 months. Uh, David, this begs another inevitable question, which is, uh, what impact is that gonna have on the luxury industry, which of course, is so extraordinary, reliant on the supply of gold.

David Sadigh: So first of all, maybe we have to give a call to Jean Claude Beaver so that we can find some magic gold. Maybe the, the price of magic gold didn't increase as fast as gold. Uh, on a more serious note, uh, I think that the real question is like, are we talking about clients that are buying from their wealth?

I. From their compensation, their bonuses, uh, obviously I think that, uh, people buying from wealths are a bit scared. Maybe some of them lost some money on the stock market and so on. But the reality is that the Hermes uh, Patek, Philippe and Ferrai of this world, uh, are in a good situation despite the turbulences.

Uh, I think the real challenge will be, as we mentioned in one of the previous episodes, for all the brands that target people that are like buying things mostly with their salaries [00:10:00] and the price of gold we believe will be quickly passed on to customers. Uh, you might have seen Robin on SW group, uh, already announced, uh, in the us uh, plus 10% increase, if I'm not mistaken.

So I think the combination of gold increase, but also, uh, the, uh, weaker dollar, uh, will make this kind of mandatory.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, I, I'm, I'm a bit,   um, bit confused on this one, I must say, because there's, there, there's, there seem to be two schools of thought here. One is that luxury consumers aren't so price sensitive and as you've rightly indicated, not all luxury consumers are the same. Um, but broadly speaking, at some level, I.

I guess that has to be true and we can't compare energy and food bills, uh, to the list price on a gold Rolex Daytona, obviously we're, we're talking about two very different things. Um, but even within that, I think that there is plenty of evidence that luxury consumers are price sensitive. Um, otherwise we wouldn't have seen volumes falling quite so much as we have done pretty much across the board. Um, companies that are now recording, uh, declining revenues are doing so at the same time that prices have been increasing which would suggest that there are fewer and fewer customers out there, which to me would indicate that [00:11:00] consumers are extremely price sensitive. Um, and that I think is one of the great challenges, um, for the luxury industry, whether they're selling watches or handbags or anything else over the course of, uh, the next few years, is to try and, uh, try and deliver some sort of value, uh, that makes price sensitive customers.

Um. Confident that they are investing in the right products at the right time. Um, which at the moment I think the industry is, is I think the industry is struggling with that enormously may, maybe not as you said, with, you know, the Richard Mills and the Ferraris and so on, but in those kind of, maybe we describe them as the mid-tier luxury brands, I think consumers for those of those products are, are, are very price sensitive. Um, and the industry needs to be extremely aware of that. But anyway, um, there are, there are winners and there are losers in this sort of situation. Um, and it, it occurs to me that, uh, one of the potential winners in this situation are the pre-owned sellers. Um, they may well be gearing up for more eyeballs as we speak, uh, perhaps even more sales in the months ahead as the costs of making and exporting luxury goods continues to go up. Uh, David, in your view, do you think this is, this is good news. This is a good moment for the certified pre-owned industry.

David Sadigh: I don't know if it's a good moment, [00:12:00] but, uh, I join you on the fact that, uh, prices for like, uh, CPO are most likely going to increase, especially in the US market. Obviously, this will depend on what happened at the end of the 90 days, uh, uh, uh, period. Um, but we can, we can see big differences in term of average price.

On, uh, uh, major websites, uh, especially in China. And now with the weaker r and b, uh, you can feel lot of, you can find lots of products at a much cheaper price. So I'm pretty sure you will find some smart folks trying to do arbitrage between our, across the countries. And if you didn't have this idea yet, and you just discovered through the podcast,  don't, 

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah. Um, uh, yeah, episode three. We seem to cut ourselves off at the, uh, at the ankles. No, I,  I, I, one of the things that, uh, one of the, one of the trackers that I follow is the watch charts and Morgan Stanley watch Market Report, uh, which covers the, the secondary index. And that shows that, uh, the values of pre-owned watches, uh, are starting to sort of level out.

So we've had 12 consecutive quarters, including Q1 of 2025. During which the average price of, uh, the watches, they track across a number of categories, number [00:13:00] of brands, number of price points, and so on. Um, uh, it, it's now starting to fall more slowly than it has done at any point over those 12 previous quarters.

So Q1 prices were down just n 0.4%, quarter on quarter, compared with, uh, 1.6% decline in the fourth quarter of 2024. Um, I mean, as you've suggested, I wonder therefore if that means that the, uh, the pre-owned market might have, uh. Bottomed out and this, this could well become, uh, a, a, a good moment to be in the business of selling pre-owned luxury products. Um. Look, uh, we, I think we're getting there. Um, David, I think we probably need to, uh, to draw some conclusions. We've, we've covered a number of different, uh, areas in, in, uh, in the last 15 minutes or so. Um, I, I don't like to use the term, but I found myself using it in a column that I wrote today. Um, we, we, we seem to be entering a perfect storm, uh, which typically as a season in which sailors have to work harder and find ways to keep the boat afloat. Um, what are luxury brands going to have to do now in order to survive this period

David Sadigh: Can you record it again? Sorry, I had my, uh, alarm clock. I thought it was on mute.

Robin Swithinbank: that was a long sentence. Um, I'll, um, I'll go back to, I'll, I'll try and introduce the conclusions. Okay, David, I think, uh, over the past 15 minutes, we've covered a number of areas there, but, uh, let's try and draw some conclusions if we can. I'm, I'm loathed to use the term, although I did in a, in a column that I wrote, uh, earlier today.

Uh, we seem to be entering a perfect storm, which typically means the sailors have to work harder and find ways to keep the boat afloat. Um, in your view, what are luxury brands gonna have to do to survive this period if indeed this period isn't somehow permanent?

David Sadigh: What I can tell you is that, uh, the few discussions we had in the last couple of days with, uh, with client, most of them are trying to find a new solution. I think they are fully aware [00:14:00] that, uh, the old playbooks are not going to work. Some of them are stuck with, uh, high rent. Uh, they want to decrease the number of point of sales that they have, or retail that they have.

Uh, the big questions are around price elasticity. That's like a really big question. The inventory intelligence and how to optimize the allocation, the gray market crackdown that is coming back into the picture and especially how to maximize sellout. What can we do in term of marketing to ensure that we generate, I.

Results within the next 90 days, uh, uh, next two or four months. Uh, and obviously like there are big question around that. I think luxury has always had the privilege of margin. Uh, but it seems that, uh, this era is over at least for a couple of months.

Robin Swithinbank: and I would go back to, um, my thought earlier on around value. Um, one of the things that I observed at Watches and Wonders a few weeks ago was that those brands who came with a value proposition and value, of course, is very subjective. Uh, and we're not necessarily assuming that a, a luxury product that cost five or [00:15:00] $10,000 is gonna be considered good value to everybody.

Of course, that would be ludicrous to suggest. But, uh, those brands who were, who were. Conscientiously trying to promote products that offered a good, good value. You know, lots of product for the money, a lot of bang fuel buck. Those were the brands that seemed to get the warmest reception. I felt. Um, consumer sentiment towards value I would suggest is, has never been higher than it is now. Um, and if you are seen to be. You know, trying to protect your margins, uh, investing too heavily in things that don't offer any real value, any tangible value, then I think you are more likely to struggle in this climate. Um, I think that, uh, this, this almost becomes a season in which, in which the power of value, uh, will, will never have been greater than it has before.

We will, as they say, see as as time passes. Uh, go on David.

David Sadigh: No, no. I mean, like, you are absolutely right and I think that, uh, we will also see like, uh, cost saving measures being implemented. Uh, like, you know, uh, client, uh, not only trying to adapt. They are like ad counts, but also thinking at how to use AI to optimize content creation and reduce, you know, the cost of asset creation, rethinking or visiting some of their sponsorship, uh, am the impression that, uh, what, uh, is happening.

And what just [00:16:00] started is the beginning.

Robin Swithinbank: Interesting. Contentious, perhaps. Well, David is ever, it's a joy to plunder that big brain of yours, but we must move on. 

Okay, next up, it's a great pleasure to welcome onto the Pod Max Perro founder and CEO of dlg sister company Rehub Max has more than 15 years experience working in China, helping global brands implement digital transformation projects, and he's joining us to discuss the latest findings of the Compass Index Max.

A very warm welcome to you for your debut appearance on the pod.

Max Peiro: Thanks, Robin. It's a pleasure to be here.

Robin Swithinbank: Now I'm new to this Max. The Compass Index is something I've not come across before. So can you just explain to us initially what it's

Max Peiro: Yeah, the The Compass Index aims to help understand the performance of luxury brands in China, digital ecosystem. From a combined e-commerce and social media perspective, it tracks, um, it tracks, uh, over 150 luxury and premium brands across the main platforms from a social media perspective as well as, uh, e-commerce team mall [00:17:00] stores.

Robin Swithinbank: Okay. And the latest index covers Q4, which of course, in China as pretty much anywhere else, uh, is, is a big deal. Um, tell us what are the key findings.

Max Peiro: Um, well, yeah, as you say, uh, Q4 is always a, a very important quarter for luxury brands. Um, in terms of key findings, um, we see a, a, a slight decrease, uh, when it comes to engagement. On social media and, and we think that this can be partially due to, um, reduce marketing budgets, um, in the, in 2024, given the, the, the context of China.

But still like some, uh, interesting bright spots, um, for individual brands when it comes to the, the full luxury ecosystem.

Robin Swithinbank: So what would those bright spots be?

Max Peiro: Um, I think first of all, we see, um. Polarization of performance. Um, there are what we would call emerging brands as opposite as to the, to the, the, the big established brands like, uh, for example, or like Montclair, that they are performing extremely well. We also see that ready to wear as a category is outperforming, um, other categories, uh, especially against, uh, uh, a decline in revenues on leather goods and watch and [00:18:00] jewelry.

Um. We also see a change in the consumer preferences in China, which is something that it's often, uh, um, overlooked, um, what we would call luxury fatigue versus smart engagement. Meaning that, um, consumers are getting smarter in the way that they consume luxury, and also they prioritize. Experience lifestyle over just simply, uh, buying products.

Robin Swithinbank: Uh, that's interesting, isn't it? Because China is often assumed to be a fairly immature market, and yet to have luxury fatigue would suggest that this is a market which is maturing very quickly. Uh, is that what you're seeing?

Max Peiro: Yeah. Um, I think that one of the characteristics of China as a whole is the speed of change. So in this sense, uh, we would see that the consumption patterns are more akin to to, to more develop or more mature markets.

Robin Swithinbank: Hmm. And you picked up Miu and, uh, Montclair. What, what is it exactly that is making them more successful than, than other, more established luxury brands?

Max Peiro: I think when it comes to luxury, it's always a combination of, uh, [00:19:00] strong products, obviously. And  um, good marketing strategies and activations. I think that in the case of, uh, this is a global trend, it's one of the hottest brands also globally, but their designs and, and and their brand positioning resonates very well with Asian, Asian consumers and specifically Chinese.

Robin Swithinbank: And, and, and as we know, there are multiple, uh, channels in China, many of which are specific to China. Are there any in particular where brands are finding they're having significant success?

Max Peiro: I think when it comes to social media, uh, there are four main channels, Weibo, um, WeChat at Red Note, as it's called nowadays, uh, in English. And endoyin I think out of these four nowadays, um, when it comes to luxury. Uh, red Note and oin are emerging as winners and more relevant for luxury brands to engage in conversations with, with customers in two different, uh, very two different, uh, distinct angles.

Robin Swithinbank: and Douyin, which is otherwise known as.

Max Peiro: TikTok, For,

Robin Swithinbank: For, for those of us, for those who dunno, the Chinese, uh, uh, name for, for TikTok, um, uh, there are some who are suggesting that for luxury brands [00:20:00] do and TikTok is, is not necessarily the right place to be, that it's perhaps not as premium. Um, are you observing that

Max Peiro: Uh, yeah. I think, um, when it comes to doin TikTok, it's all about entertainment driven. So it's more about, uh, brand awareness, flashing campaigns, and being able to reach broader audiences. I.

Robin Swithinbank: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, and David Sadig is on the call as well. Of course. Uh, David, sorry, I should be, uh, should have brought you in a little bit earlier. But, um, David, you, you obviously have a pretty holistic view of this. Um, you're based in Geneva, but, um, uh, are you, are you observing the same trends yourself from where you are sitting?

I.

David Sadigh: No, absolutely, and I think that, uh, many of the insights that were shared were by Max regarding also the mix. And the fact that, uh, you have different platform and obviously you need to make sure that you pri prioritize those platform based on your marketing objective is absolutely critical. Uh, and I'm pretty sure that, uh, in the next part of the conversation, uh, max is going also probably to share, uh, more information about like this shift that we have been seeing from one platform to the other.

Uh, is that correct, max?

Max Peiro: Yeah, absolutely.

Robin Swithinbank: What does that shift look like?

Max Peiro: Um, I, I, I think maybe we can start by, by, uh, explaining a bit more the difference between, between platforms, uh, [00:21:00] way. Would be, um, the equivalent of, of, of Twitter or X in the West. So traditionally it worked very well, uh, to cooperate with big celebrities, KOL. To drive engagement. So also like top of the top of the funnel type of activations.

Um, this is a platform that it's declining in relevance, it reach a moderation point and some kind of saturation. Then you have WeChat, um, which everyone I believe is familiar with, with the platform. Uh, there has been some changes in the way that official accounts, uh, can engage with, uh, with users. Uh, on the platform.

So this is leading also to a decrease in, in engagement. It's still a very relevant platform to maintain, uh, one-on-one conversations. Between luxury brands and then their, their, their existing customers. But in terms of reach, uh, it's becoming less relevant. So this leave us to the two main platforms that we're discussing early, uh, red Note and then doin, uh, TikTok, uh, we already mentioned about, uh, doin, but when it comes to red, [00:22:00] I think it's interesting 'cause in terms of user base, it's smaller.

Than the other platforms, but it's about the quality of the audience there. Uh, and I think that, uh, red Note is a very relevant platform for luxury brands, um, to enable, uh, discover, discovery driven, uh, type of, uh, engagement with a focus on user generated content. So here it's not the brand message that matters the most, it's the consumer's message that, of course needs to be, um, funnel or, or, or, or, or, or shaped by the brand.

Robin Swithinbank: And the, this user generated content, this is generated by people with higher incomes, with better access, with, with more talent, or what is, what is actually causing that.

Max Peiro: Yeah. Well, the, the profile, uh, of users on, on ahu typically are, uh, more in, um, tier one, tier two cities, um, urban consumers, well-educated, um, that they use the platform to learn about peers, uh, from peers about inspiration trips, recommendations.

Robin Swithinbank: Interesting, David. Sorry.

David Sadigh: and just Max, where do you think is the next battleground? Uh, as far as the platform are concerned in [00:23:00] China?

Max Peiro: I, I think when it comes to social media, um, in the short term midterm, it's still gonna be, uh, all about red note and potentially, I think at this stage it's very difficult in such a competitive, I. Ecosystem that there will be, um, pla new platforms emerging, um, with this, uh, with this large number of users.

I would say never say never in China, but I don't think that in the short term it's gonna be, uh, it's gonna be happening. So I think that these two platforms are gonna be the main focus and, and, uh, where the competition will continue for luxury.

David Sadigh: And I, and I guess that, uh, in term of like, uh, uh, industries, uh, there is probably like, uh, some significant variation from one industry to the other in regards to which platform is the most relevant one. Uh, thinking of beauty as an example. Is that correct? I.

Max Peiro: Yeah, that's correct. Um, I think when it comes to beauty, both platforms are still very relevant, but doin acquires an additional importance because they are vertical integrated platform and they also have the e-commerce online sales element. So being able to [00:24:00] capture. Traffic from the platform and direct it to your uh, own online store on the in is very relevant for beauty brands when it comes to luxury, uh, fashion watches and jewelry.

Um, they are still very timid in launching stores on the in, so it's not, uh, as available as with beauty yet.

Robin Swithinbank: And you've picked out one or two brands that appear to have accommodated the shift quite well. Are there brands who similarly are struggling to make the shift or who have found themselves a little bit behind?

Max Peiro: Um, I think it's, um, talking about the focus on these two platforms. Pretty much all the brands, uh, has have done that. You can see I. That some of the brands are betting mostly on Red Note or mostly on doin. Uh, it's very obvious to see from the levels of engagement. Um, and then there are some brands like, Hermes or Chanel, which are traditionally a bit more shy, if I may.

Um, and they're a bit more, more quiet when it comes to, to, to doubling down on these platforms. 

Robin Swithinbank: I, I, I just, um, a, a little bit of a cut here, Juliet, as I, uh, as I just point back to the document, uh, there's this, this bit in here about strugglers, which David has just highlighted in green, which is what I was, uh, angling to get out of you there. Um, I might ask, I, I might ask that question.

Get, if that, and if that's information that you want to share.

Max Peiro: I, I think it's okay, but I'm wondering if, 'cause we've been talking mostly about social media right now. Should we talk also. Uh, or introduce the concept of e-commerce, and then we move to.

David Sadigh: Yeah, we, we can, but I think I, I, I tend to agree. Let's try to stick if possible to the, that's why I got lost a bit. Let's try to stick to the, to the plan. So let's just maybe redo section three and then we can see what we cut, uh, or not, and we will move to e-commerce. But maybe Max, if you can explain, he is going to ask you or I'm going to ask you some question about, okay.

Uh, we understand lots of different platform and so on. Now there are some clear winners and there are like some brands that are like struggling. Uh, would you mind going through them and, and try to explain and, and provide a bit of background on that? Would that work?

Okay. Uh, you wanna do it? Uh, Robin?

Robin Swithinbank: So, um, Juliette, we'll, uh, we'll come back in at this point. So Max, uh, talk about winners and losers then, uh, those who are recognizing the shift and who have adapted to it well, uh, presumably some are still adapting and are perhaps falling a little bit behind.

Max Peiro: Yeah. Um, I

David Sadigh: Sorry, do you mind? Sorry. Uh, Robin, can you redo it and not use the word losers please? It'll create drama for us. Just said like winners and maybe strugglers or something like that.

Robin Swithinbank: Okay.

Max Peiro: Yeah, you mentioned, um, headwinds also, right in the, in the document.

Robin Swithinbank: Yes, I did. Yeah. Who's struggling against the headwinds? Yeah. Okay. Fine. Okay, Juliet, back on. So, uh, in this new, in this new ecosystem where the shift is happening, um, I assume there are some winners and then presumably there are those who are struggling against the headwinds. I.

Max Peiro: Uh, absolutely. Um, as we mentioned, there are some emerging brands that are facing strong tailwinds and, and are generating, um, significant growth in the market. Is a clear example from a niche brand to to, to becoming like one of the hottest brands right now, uh, in the market, uh, with double digit growth in terms of, uh, e-commerce revenues and becoming a youth culture icon.

Brand like Moncler. Also, um, massive growth in terms of engagement in Q4. Remember, Montclair is a brand that it's mostly about. Outerwear. So obviously Q4 is the most important, uh, quarter for them. Um, they launch very successfully. The City of Genius event in Shanghai amplify in official channels on red note on the yin, and as a result, also, uh, experience a significant boost in revenues and also consolidated their position as the, uh, leading luxury outerwear brand.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, that was an interesting case study. And, and actually just to refer listeners back to episode one, when bene at the end of that episode, uh, spent a few minutes, uh, explaining to us, uh, the, some of the details of that and how it proved so effective, that's well worth a listen. Um, but so sorry to, uh, to interrupt you there.

Uh, do continue, max.

Max Peiro: Um, speaking of outerwear, um, I think it's worth mentioning also Burberry, uh, with a very successful brand repositioning globally. But also specifically in China, a very well integration of British and Chinese culture. Um, they implemented a lot of offline popups, uh, during the last quarter of the year to capture the barn feet popularity and also early Chinese New Year assets.

Um, combining the, the, um, elements of the upcoming year of the. Um, which as a result, um, yield, uh, an extremely good performance when it comes to brand generated content engagement.

Robin Swithinbank: Burberry does seem to be particularly sensitive to, uh, the Chinese market. And, uh, as we know, it's a brand that's had many ups and downs over the last, uh, two or three decades. Um, and I'm sure that, uh, uh, sussing out. The, uh, the Chinese market will prove pivotal to their future success. But, uh, and then those perhaps who are, who are struggling against the headwinds as, as we said, um, are, are those, are there those who are, who've yet to adapt, uh, fully to this, to this new shift that you've described?

Max Peiro: Well, some of them, um, they're struggling in China. Um, because globally they're also facing some challenges. And I think a, a clear example of that is, is Gucci. Um, it's known by everyone that, um, their performance, um, have been lagging behind for, for already several quarters. So we see the same pattern in, in China.

They launched some successful events like the Ancora, uh, in 2024. But despite this, they're still, uh, failing to, uh, regain traction. I think that brands like, um, Cartier also, um, they are not in the top three of our Compass index for watches and jewelry. Um, we see lower engagement metrics versus the, the key competitors.

So probably also, uh, brand to watch out in Q1, uh, with Valentine's Day and with the upcoming Chinese milestones.

Robin Swithinbank: That's very interesting because I would imagine that most, uh, people listening certainly in, uh, in, in, uh, in the, in Europe, in the sort of more traditional markets in the US, would anticipate that CAR T would be doing particularly well. Partly because Cartier's figures appear to be quite strong on a global level, uh, which of course means they're doing very well in countries like the US and, and mainland Europe and, and the Middle East.

Um, why, why would you say Cartier is, is underperforming in China?

Max Peiro: I, I'm talking purely from a, from a social media perspective. I think if we listen to the, to the quarterly earnings of, of, of Richmond Group, I think Cartier is doing okay in China and,

Robin Swithinbank: Norm, normally there's a direct correlation between interest and and demand isn't there. And, uh, and this, this would suggest that actually interest is dropped off a little bit, whereas perhaps demand has stayed as high. Maybe that maybe this, this is, this is the exception that breaks the rule, perhaps.

Max Peiro: uh, yeah, there is a caveat when, when we're talking about jewelry brands, uh, and I think that this is the distinction between, uh, high jewelry. Versus more like entry double jewelry. Um, and, and, and brands like Car Ts still rely on high jewelry, um, high net worth individuals to really drive these, these revenues.

Maybe, uh, this may suggest, uh, some type of, um, decline when it comes to, um, the aspirational consumers, um, interest in Cartier, but it does not necessarily mean that this would affect their revenues in the midterm.

David Sadigh: Uh, I am sorry. You know, I just would like to stop one second. Uh, Juliet here, uh, max, is there a reason we don't stick to the script that you shared?

 The winners were Bush, golden Goose, Jimmy Shoe. We never mentioned Cartier. I read the things ahead and now we have Cartier. So I understand part of it is a spontaneous discussion, but, uh, what's the link between the notes that were shared and uh, and the discussion?

Max Peiro: uh, I thought that the notes were still a work in progress. 'cause when we talk about strugglers, we only mention Gucci and then we mention. LVMH brands in the gray market, which is a strange 'cause. Um, I mean, I, I can, I can stick to that if you want, but the gray market is not part of the Compass Index, so I was struggling a little bit to understand the, the

David Sadigh: But we sure. We created these notes then.

Max Peiro:  think Pablo created them.

David Sadigh: Okay. Okay. 

Max Peiro: But happy to, happy 

David Sadigh: No, no, no, no. I let you choose because you know the market better than I do, but, uh, are you just confident before Robbin you take over? Are you confident on the winners? That New Mu Bush from Golden Goose and Jimmy Shu are the winners? In that case, I think it's important to mention them.

Max Peiro: Uh, me, me certainly, um, Cher on from a social, um, media perspective. Yes. Golden Goes and Jimmy Chu. I'm not so sure to be honest. Um, I haven't,

David Sadigh: Yeah, we need to. I understand you were in Paris and this was like recorded last minute, but we need to align better on the notes. Then, uh, for the next time I let you take over, Robin. Yeah.

Max Peiro: Sorry, David. We can we, with that, I mean, Pablo Pablo review it and it's not, we're not saying anything that doesn't make any sense at all.

Robin Swithinbank: I thought the car TCA study was quite interesting personally. Um, I

David Sadigh: no, me too. But,

Robin Swithinbank: quite a clear distinction.

David Sadigh: no, no, I, I'm with you Robin. It's just that the LVMH brand, if we speak about Cartier and we don't mention anything about the LVMH brand where we say that there is a gray market issue, uh, um, yeah. I just think it's

Max Peiro: Okay, so maybe

David Sadigh: something I.

Max Peiro: David, if that's okay, I can right after this, I mentioned LVMH brands like selling Fendi, uh, on the gray 

market. 

David Sadigh: would be nice if you can do, and also can we just record briefly the winners, but without making it 10 minutes, like, you know, just to understand right now in China, Q4 were the winners in term of social media. So m mu, bush, ho, golden go. Jimmy Chu did this, bush ho did that. Golden Goose did that.

So that we had a bit of pace. If Robin, you agree?

Max Peiro: Okay, so, uh, we winners and then I do, I say the brand and then one

David Sadigh: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Something a bit like, yeah, let's add a bit of pace and dynamism, because otherwise I, I believe it might be perceived as a bit flat. Uh, so, so let's go for it.

Robin Swithinbank: Okay, I'll, I'll kick off by asking the question again though, and start section three once more. Okay, Juliet. So we'll, uh, we'll go back on now and, and Max  are there, are there must be winners who are [00:25:00] adapting to this new ecosystem and the shift that you've described. Uh, but simultaneously there must be those who are struggling against the headwinds of change.

Max Peiro: Uh, absolutely. Uh, in terms of winners, um, we can see Miu Miu as a clear example going from a niche brand to, uh, the top one of the hottest brands right now. With, uh, double digit growth. Um, in terms of revenue throughout the year and a youth culture icon, nowadays we have Boucheron um, leveraging or benefiting from long-term games from the partnership with Xiao Zhan as a brand ambassador.

Also, high double digit growth. In Q4, 2024, golden Goose, leveraging Y 2K style and Jackson Lee as a brand ambassador, becoming the number one sneaker, uh, brand on Timal and Jimmy Choo. Uh, interestingly, targeting the male market with one Ebo and having a huge uplift on, uh, compass, uh, index, as well as on timal cells.

David Sadigh: Wow. Golden Goose. Being the first sneaker spot on TMall is quite an interesting one.

Max Peiro: And this shows the, the dynamism of the, of the Chinese [00:26:00] market, right? And how fast this, this, uh, these trends and dispositions change

Robin Swithinbank: Interesting. Uh, and then those who are struggling against the headwinds.

Max Peiro: in terms of, uh, brands facing headwinds. Um, I think it's worth mentioning Gucci. This is not a China specific topic. Um, everyone knows that they are going through a. Difficult situation globally. Uh, we see still revenue declines and struggling to gain, regain traction despite, despite some, uh, relevant events like, uh, Gucci and Cora that they released, uh, early in the year.

Um, I think it's also worth mentioning, um, specific LVMH brands like Celine or Fendi, our Fendi. In this case, what we see is declining in the revenues on the great market. Which could potentially imply a declining brandability.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, it, it, it's a really interesting one that isn't it, because on the one hand I would imagine that the brands aren't disappointed to see that their grey market sales are going down because obviously fundamentally they don't control them. But then if it means declining desirability, presumably that has a knock on effect on, on primary sales through, uh, through official retail outlet.

Max Peiro: In theory, the declining revenues in the gray market should [00:27:00] be good news 'cause uh, it means that brands are having a better control and it limits the impact on brand cannibalization. But also we like to observe the gray market, um, as a way to understand the, the, the, the interest, uh, from consumers into specific brands.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah. Fascinating.

David Sadigh: And Robin, I think, uh, we have a hot topic here on with the gray market, uh, in China. Uh, the overall situation, probably for one of the upcoming episode.

Robin Swithinbank: Definitely, we'll discuss that in much more detail because it's quite clear that there's some very significant movement in, uh, in the gray market in China, but we must move on, um, in this new ecosystem then, such as you've described it, max. Um, are there some, some new rules, uh, that will apply to brands, um, that at this point in, in the, uh, in the calendar, they need to consider right here, right now?

Max Peiro: Sorry. Let me, let me, let me make an um, of like, comment. This is related to the section four, right? Just to be

clear. 

David Sadigh: Yes, 

Robin Swithinbank: exactly. Yeah. So Julia, we'll just cut that little bit out, max, just continue straight on with your answer.

Max Peiro: Uh, absolutely. First, uh, I would mention, uh, evergreens versus Drops when it comes to merchandising, the importance of creating long-term pro product equity versus just, uh, seasonal hype. Uh, I think that clear examples of brands historically, historically excelling on that are Chanel or Louis Vuitton [00:28:00] creating iconic products that last for, uh, for multiple seasons.

Number two, price, discipline, and wholesale control. Uh, we're talking about the gray market, uh, arguably, uh, the biggest threat for luxury brands in China. So being able to use your tools available to try to mitigate, uh, its impact. Also localization, uh, localization, localization. The ability to, of course, continue with, uh, your brand image.

But, uh, tailor it to the, to the, to the, to the Chinese, uh, context. We saw in 2024, Loewe Crafted Walls, uh, an incredibly successful exhibition. Balenciaga doing a fashion show in Shanghai, uh, m Summer reads. So example of, uh, localization, uh, when it comes to events, and then moving from social reach to real ROI. Um, make sure that, uh, there is a development of content that drives conversion, not just purely clout.

Robin Swithinbank: Conversion, not just cloud. That's a nice little epithet. Um, you can own that one. Um, I, it interesting. Okay. So if, if those are the rules then, I mean the takeaways for, for luxury marketeers at this point, um, what, what, uh, what would you say to, to, to [00:29:00] marketeers in this market at this point in time? I.

Max Peiro: I would say three key takeaways. Number one, engagement does not equal sales, but alignment equals power.

Robin Swithinbank: Un unpack that for us a little bit. That's, uh, that's quite pithy.

Max Peiro: Yeah. I, I, I think this is the, the, the, the, the relevance of having your social buzz and your marketing activations being fully aligned with generating revenues online and offline. So in this sense, having the social BA bus fully synced with platforms like Mol.

Robin Swithinbank: Okay. Um, uh, you said point number one, so I assume you've got some further takeaways. Snuffled away for us.

Max Peiro: Number two. Uh, despite the current challenges, uh, China remains an essential market, but obviously not an easy one. Um, it's not longer about scale, it's about precision. And what we're seeing is more and more brands focusing on market share gain rather than pure revenue growth.

Robin Swithinbank: Understood. and what does that mean for this year?

Max Peiro: I think there is gonna be a continuation, uh, for, uh, for this year and potentially, um, some recovery in the second half of the year.

Robin Swithinbank: Recover in the second half of the year. Um, well that will, that will be good news to those who have invested heavily in China because it's, it's been a season of, [00:30:00] well, if not bad news, then not good news. Um, you are feeling a, a, a change in the air.

Max Peiro: I am not sure if this is wishful thinking, but definitely I, I, I, I feel some, uh, change in the energy, uh, on the ground. So we need to monitor closely to, to see if this translate into, um, better revenues, uh, in the remainder of a year.

Robin Swithinbank: David, before we, uh, before we wrap this one up, any any 

David Sadigh: Yeah, no, I have, I have one. I think, you know, the, the many of the brands, as you exactly pointed out, have been investing a lot into the Chinese market, uh, in the last, uh, uh, 10, 15 years. And I think obviously now, uh, it gives the impression that the power is over, uh, and that the growth level won't be at the same, uh, as in the past.

But the reality is that we are talking about either the biggest or the second biggest market. In a moment where the US is showing some early signs of high volatility and risk, and I think that it's quite important to keep in mind that China right now is probably the best way to counterbalance the US market.

And that obviously with all the risk that are surrounding the US market, and [00:31:00] obviously we are just perceiving the early SI signals right now. Um, I think it makes it even more important to, uh, analyze. Build and as exactly, uh, max pointed out being able to retain the client and to focus on metrics which could drive success and not just conversations.

Robin Swithinbank: Interesting. Thank you. Well, max, uh, we must move on. Uh, thank you so much for joining us on the pod and sharing those insights. We will no doubt speak again soon.

David Sadigh: Thank you, max.

Robin Swithinbank: And now I'm delighted to say that I'm joined by Benedict Soterra Jen. Thank you. Um, max, is there anything else you want to, to, to look at again or to record again? Anything else you, you feel you should have said or, or would wanted to say or shouldn't have said equally?

Max Peiro: No, I think we already, um, read it. Um, section three, which is probably the one that, that, that was a bit more, um, um,

shaky. 

Robin Swithinbank: that, worked better. That's good learning for

Max Peiro: Yeah. Um, for the other ones, I, I think, I think it's okay. I dunno what you think, David.

David Sadigh: No, no, no. I think it's good. And I know that, uh, you know, even for us and for Robin and I, everything was a bit rushed. Uh, so, uh, I think we're learning. Uh, and maybe for the next one, it's good to align on the notes ahead because it's always tricky when another person is like writing down the notes and then we are not fully sure.

So let's try to fine tune a bit, the process. But, uh, no, thank you so much. And I think that, uh, many of the answers were like, uh, really interesting and I'm pretty sure that, uh, with Juliet's Magic we'll be able to, uh,

Robin Swithinbank: Magic Juliet. Magic Juliet.

David Sadigh: uh, something quite, uh, quite compelling.

Robin Swithinbank: On that note, I'll stop the recording. 

Which means we should move on to number three. So, Juliet, this is episode three, segment five on the download on the subject of Montclair, and I'm very pleased to say that we're joined once again by DGS partner and international client Director Benedicta for this episode on the download Benet. How are you?

Benedicte: I'm great. Thank you, and it's lovely to be back.

Robin Swithinbank: So, uh, a big reveal what's in the download for this episode.

Benedicte: For this episode, I'd like us to talk about one of the top performing luxury brands in China in 2024, Montclair, and how their genius strategy, if you've heard of it, has driven amazing growth, you know, for the brand, especially because of, you know, how it appealed to Gen Z and millennials.

Robin Swithinbank: I, I can't say I have heard of it. Uh, the Genius program you said, what exactly is that?

Benedicte: Well, good feeling. I'm here then, uh, the Gen, the [00:32:00] Genius program is essentially a collaborative platform where Montclair has been partnering with a lot of different designers and creative talents to reimagine their collections. Think of, you know, limited edition capsules throughout the year. With people like Rick Owens, Palm Angels, or even Willow Smiths.

And what's very clever about this is not only have they like benefited from the hype of, you know, very indie designers, they've also basically turned their, like, like transformed their brand from a seasonal outwear company into a year round, like cultural phenomenon that people are genuinely excited to hear about.

Robin Swithinbank: Oh, okay. Right. Tell me what, sorry, I shouldn't have interrupted there,

Benedicte: no, no, no.

Robin Swithinbank: but keep, keep going.

Benedicte: But the real game changer in China was the City of Genius event that happened in Shanghai in October, 2024. And hold onto your chair. It was nearly a $30 million investment that featured many installations, architectural transformation, interactive, like digital elements all over.

They're really bridge, physical and digital experiences.

Robin Swithinbank: Okay, so $30 million is a lot of money. Yes. I'm holding onto my chair. Uh, what kind of, what kind of impact are we looking at though as a [00:33:00] result of that spend?

Benedicte: I'm glad you're asking. Um, according to our data and intelligence arm in Shanghai called Rehab, the results were just remarkable. Montclair was literally the hottest brand on the WeChat index ranking that we put together every year, and during that same month. So they ranked number one on WeChat, number four on red, and number two on doin, which is the equivalent of TikTok in terms of brand engagement.

So that's for the conversational part of things, but it also like meant lot of, a lot more additional sales for them, like 39% revenue growth on TM O in the last quarter of 2024 versus the same period last year

Robin Swithinbank: So one event, one big bang moment.

Benedicte: completely. But there's more to it. They've also implemented a very smart merchandise.

Robin Swithinbank: go back there. 'cause I think, I think the, the sake works better if, if you say, well, there's more to it rather than, so I, I mean, fundamentally, I kind of want you to disagree with me. Um, I, I'm almost here to sort of be the, the useful idiot in the room. So, so if I say one big event or one event, one big bag moment, and you can say, well, there's more to it.

Um, rather than, uh, trying

Benedicte: completely agree with you.

Robin Swithinbank: Don't, don't be too nice to me, basically. Um,

Benedicte: Gimme time and I'll come.

Robin Swithinbank: the real bene will come forward. Excellent. I look forward to it. Um, okay, let's re let's start again. So, uh, so what, one, one big event, one being, so, one event, one big bang moment.

Benedicte: Well, there's more to it. They've also been very clever in how they implemented their merchandising shift over the last few years. Well, as I said earlier, they've always been known for their jackets and ski wear. I. They've really managed to broaden their offer with year round apparel, like logo tees, statement accessories, [00:34:00] sweatpants, et cetera.

Especially like also on the accessory part, like branded caps, sneakers. Um, and they've really managed through that to appeal also to also younger audiences that might not be able to, you know, pay the full, the full like entry price for, um, I'll do it again. I'll do the whole thing again.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah. Start again. Start again with I'll, I'll lead you into it, shall I? Yeah, I think it was just getting a bit long there. So, um,

Benedicte: Yeah. I'll, I'll just

Robin Swithinbank: this, this segment does seem a bit long, so, well, there's more to it. Smart me is merchandise. Just, uh,

Benedicte: Mer. Oh, merchandise. Merchandise.

Robin Swithinbank: uh,

Benedicte: do, do, I like, shall I fi, shall I finish on this? They've really cracked the code in China. I'll just remove this.

Robin Swithinbank: Go for it. Okay, I'll lead you in. Okay. So, uh, what one big event and one big bang moment.

Benedicte: Well, there's actually more to it. There've been also ve they've, ah,

Robin Swithinbank: Don't

Benedicte: do it.

Robin Swithinbank: just start again.

Benedicte: Well, there's actually more to it. They've been very clever in how they implemented their merchandising. I. Shift over the last few years. While, as I was saying earlier, they've always been known for their ski jackets.

They broadened their offer with gear round apparel like logo tee sweatpants and accessories. Um, and with that genuinely expended, you know, their appeals also to younger audiences. In summary, I'd say that Montclair has really cracked the code in China. They managed to blend cultural credibility, team traction for sales, and you know that merchandise evolution to build a brand that's hot year round.

Robin Swithinbank: Crack the code for now. These things never seem to be permanent, but, um, an interesting story nonetheless be. Thank you for that. Uh, great to see you again.

Benedicte: Thank you. See you next time again. You know what, we'll just take every time the the first one that works, and then just stick, stick it in there.

Robin Swithinbank: and repeat.

Benedicte: Merchandise.

Robin Swithinbank: me just, um, let me just finish it off with the sec. Right David in China, cultural credibility combined with coordinated online and offline events is how luxury brands crack the market. Is that your, uh, is that your perception as well from where you are sitting? 

Thank you for listening to the Luxury Society Podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode and would like to hear more, don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to go deeper into any of these topics, check out luxury society.com where you'll find stories, insights, and profiles that unpack what's going on in the world of luxury right now.

I've been your host, Robin Swithinbank, and this has been the Luxury Society Podcast [00:35:00] available on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.