The honourable merchant: François-Henry Bennahmias' better luxury mission begins

In this week’s episode of The Luxury Society Podcast, hosts Robin Swithinbank and David Sadigh welcome a titan of the watch and luxury world: François-Henry Bennahmias. The former Audemars Piguet CEO reveals his next chapter, the launch of The Honourable Merchants Group, an ambitious multi-vertical luxury group built on a philosophy of better, not more.

From visionary leadership at AP to a radical rethink of growth, Bennahmias shares his mission to reshape the future of luxury with a new model that prizes sustainability, employee well-being, and long-term value creation over relentless expansion.

Tune in for a candid conversation on:

• Why eternal growth is broken — and why better must replace more
• The seven verticals of The Honourable Merchants Group, from watches and jewellery to art, sport, and e-bikes
• The philosophy of profit-sharing, well-being, and redefining success in luxury
• Viiala: a game-changing electric bike company targeting Tour de France-level performance
• Avalon: a services brand rewriting the rules of luxury security and client care
• Why Bennahmias believes time, trust, and human connection remain the ultimate luxury
• How inspiration from Brunello Cucinelli shaped his model for business and employee culture

🎧 Plus: Robin and David reflect on Bennahmias’ legacy at Audemars Piguet, his bold new direction, and what his comeback could mean for the global luxury landscape.

Brought to you by https://digitalluxurygroup.com/ 

Follow us @digitalluxurygroup & @robin_swithinbank on Instagram

Produced by Juliet Fallowfield, 2025 www.fallowfieldmason.com

Transcript

Main edit / itw

Robin Swithinbank: [00:00:00] Hello, and a day later than per our usual schedule.

Welcome to the Luxury Society Podcast, brought to you in association with Digital Luxury Group. I'm your host, Robin Swithinbank, 

David Sadigh: And I am your cohost, David Sadigh.. 

Robin Swithinbank: A day past our usual Tuesday morning drop and with good reason. This week, David and I are joined by Luxury Industry heavyweight 

François-Henri Bennhamias

, who as this episode drops is in Geneva announcing his new venture, a highly ambitious, multi vertical, new luxury group that he says he and his backers have sunk hundreds of millions of dollars into.

What's the story? Well, we'll find out in just a moment for now, David. On with the show. 

David Sadigh: Let's do it. 

François-Henry Bennahmias: Do you want me to give you all the secrets now?

Robin Swithinbank: Sure. Why not?

François-Henry Bennahmias: It's my turn now to give back. It's my turn to mentor, it's my turn to coach. It's my turn to help support because I got a gift, I got something.

 I was like so dead so I had to [00:01:00] stop

 I never want to leave anyone ever again on the sidewalk of value growth in a business.

 it's almost a movement as well about changing the world of business.

Emails are forbidden on Friday by five or six o'clock and on weekends and in the evenings

 now I'm gonna reassess what am I getting for the money I'm spending? How many more stupid emails or text messages I'm supposed to get from brands that dream to get me in their stores every week?

Robin Swithinbank: And so let's get into it. This week, David and I are thrilled to welcome onto the Luxury Society Podcast, a titan of the luxury industry. The inimitable, the indescribable, the unchangeable Francois Onri Beamis Franwell's career in the luxury business began more than three decades ago. During which time he's proved himself one of the sector's most visionary and effective leaders. He joined the family owned watchmaker Ude MA PGE in the [00:02:00] 1990s and quickly rose through the ranks becoming CEO in 2012. By the time he stepped away from the company at the end of 2023, he had transformed. Its traveling its annual revenues to well north of 2 billion Swiss francs and firmly placing it in the Swiss Watch.

Industry's top five watch brands by sales and head of its great rival, Patek Philippe. Along the way, he aligned OD DeMar PGE with a catalog of high profile cultural figures and franchises from Arnold Schwartzenegger and Jay-Z to Spider-Man and Serena Williams. Capitalizing on the increasingly mainstream global influences of hip hop, streetwear, superheroes, and sport. Many have looked to replicate the model. Few have done so as profitably. When he left the watch business 20 months ago, he left the question, what next for one of the luxury industry's greatest showman? His parting words to me during his exit interview at the end of 2023 were that we should wait six months and all would be revealed. we've had to wait a little longer than that. But in his typical style, what's coming next is bigger, [00:03:00] braver, and more ambitious than most would dare ever imagine. This week he announced the Honorable Merchants Group with the promise of doing business differently and better. He joins us now from his base in the Swiss city of Nial to tell us just what that means.

So Francois, a very warm welcome and thank you so much for joining us on The Luxury Society Podcast.

François-Henry Bennahmias: hi guys. Hi. it's funny because, I thought that somebody were talking with somebody else.

Robin Swithinbank: Definitely talking about you. Definitely

talking about you. 

François-Henry Bennahmias: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Robin. Thank you.

Robin Swithinbank: No pleasure. Look, I mean, every word meant because it's been an extraordinary career, but, uh, well, look, I, let's put some meat on this bone because industry observers, particularly anyone familiar with the watch business, we'll be wondering what have you been up to since you left AP 20 months ago?

François-Henry Bennahmias: So first of all, when I left in December, 2023, I had to rest. I was exhausted. And when I look at pictures, actually from the last few weeks of, running around the world and saying bye-bye to everyone. [00:04:00] And when I look at my face at my body, because I was 23 kilos heavier, I had reached my highest weight ever.

My face was fallen. I was like so dead. So I had to stop and rest basically. And I made a mistake. After resting a few days, I said, okay, let's go because now I have to prepare and work on the future. And funny enough, it didn't start the way I thought it would because basically I was going to see and to meet companies to potentially ask semi they interested in changing the world.

And the answer came nine times. 9.9 times out of 10. Give us your phone number and we'll come back to you. We'll write to you. Okay.

Robin Swithinbank: A journalist.

François-Henry Bennahmias: Yeah. And that lasted for a good five month and end of May. Nothing was working the way I thought it would work. and I say, you know what? I need to change something drastically.

And my coach. Told, you [00:05:00] know what? Why don't we leave your home from your house? And we go, we gotta go to the south of France, walking and cycling. There are 600 kilometers roughly. Let's go. No agenda, nothing. Let's go. We gotta walk and cycle. Say, you know what? Done. We left and we, it took us 11 days to do that.

And I have to say that was a game changer for several reasons. First of all, we stopped in places and slept in hotels where the price of the room was the price of the coke in the fridge of the mini bar, the hotels I used to say before.

David Sadigh: I think you mentioned that to a French podcast lately. I was listening to that.

fso. And, yeah, I remember that part. 

François-Henry Bennahmias: When you buy a room for 24 euros a night, I can guarantee you that's a complete different perspective. But guess what? Loved it. The experience was beyond with a lot of laughs, and it was, and it helped me basically to reset completely. [00:06:00] They even took me to a, a camping, at the end of the trip, which I would've never, ever done.

People, some of member of my family says, what? wait. You slept in a camping, place? Say yeah for two days. Say, okay, so you are definitely another person.

David Sadigh: So 

that 

François-Henry Bennahmias: then I came 

David Sadigh: to,

 that was your trick to lost weight basically.

François-Henry Bennahmias: Was expect seven, eight kilos, and I dropped only two. I was so sad. no,

David Sadigh: not cycling.

François-Henry Bennahmias: Then it came after. But anyway, that changed in a way that

David Sadigh: I.

François-Henry Bennahmias: it helped me think differently. But for whatever reason, suddenly things, started to align themself and the we gotta call you back, became wait, talk, talk, talk to us about it.

we want to understand more. What are you saying? What do you want to do? And slowly but surely, I managed to put things together. And 18 months later, we're finally there.

Robin Swithinbank: this is a, not a visual medium. So unfortunately our audience can't necessarily appreciate the [00:07:00] transformation. But, having seen you in November of 2023 and seeing you today, I can say yes. you look well, you look very healthy. It's it's good to see you looking so well. but look, this week,you've launched the Honorable Merchants Group.

So tell us what this is. What does it look like? What's it gonna be?

François-Henry Bennahmias: So first of all, let's start with the genesis of the idea and the way the whole thing started. In 2016, I had a dream that I wanted to meet Ello Cuccinelli. And for me, the guy was a big inspiration, but I didn't know much about this company. And he himself and my spouse, took me for a birthday gift to spend two days in solo mail and spent two, two days with him.

And for me, that was a revolution, not a revelation, a revolution. Because I said, wow, that's exactly what I've been dreaming about without knowing it for almost ever. I came back to AP and changed few things already. I went through the border to meet and say, at some point we should maybe evolve and go to that direction. [00:08:00] This is when I decided that I would actually leave AP and not stay until retirement and say, you know what? I'm gonna leave in 2022. I ended up leaving 2023 because they asked me to stay an extra year and say I want to do that. So what does it mean exactly? Need to change the world of business? But where does this, does it come from since the end of the second World War, the world has been living on more?

Everything was always about more, let's do more, let's get more, let's make more. And it worked eventually for quite some time, I would say, until the beginning of the two thousands. But then eventually 2078 came, and then that became a rupture where we started to see the cracks in the system where the more and more was starting to not be as good anymore. since then, for me it's like we're living in a very difficult time where we don't know anymore if our system is valid for who it is valid and for how much longer is gonna be valid [00:09:00] between, global warming, the social impact, these, the never ending. Spread between extreme wealth and extreme poverty.

We really have to look at the picture from a different angle. And I say, you know what? I think we should now focus on better, and that's gonna be the number one thing on the group I'm launching. So basically, we all know that a tree doesn't grow to the sky. So which mean that if a company does 20 million in revenue.

Let's say it's got a, it has a potential of going to a hundred million. Fine, let's take it to a hundred million, but we're not gonna do this and make the brides extremely beautiful in three years. We gotta do it in a qualitative way and take the time we need to bring it there. But when we'll take that company there, we'll have to agree that if we want to keep the soul of the company the well being of the employees, we need to basically.

Accept the fact that we would've reached a mature level and we could do other things with other businesses. So [00:10:00] that's, thing number one. We're gonna go from more to better and accept the fact that eternal growth doesn't work. If you want to respect the integrity, the DNA, the soul and the wellbeing of the employees.

The second thing is I think that the role of business has shown incredible results, and we look at successes based on financial numbers, revenue, ebitda, net profit, or market cap for the public companies. I would to include in those numbers. Now, the for example, the turnover of people in your company, because if a company scores extremely well financially.

Gonna turn over 25%, which mean that they lose a quarter of the employees every year and they need to bring new blood all the time. Is it really a success? Not so sure, especially in the world of luxury where every connection matters. You cannot create culture in any businesses whatsoever if you lose [00:11:00] a quarter of your employees every year. Not only we're gonna work on this, but we could also work on the way to share the profits in my venture. So basically the profits will be shared twice with the employees, one on a yearly basis. If there is profit, there will be a percentage of the profit share equally amongst all the employees, not the executives, every single, employee of the company, from the housekeepers to the executives.

And the second thing is if at some point we sell a business and on the creation of value, when we sell a part of that money made will be split again across the entire employee network. That's where I wanna make a difference. So I never want to leave anyone ever again on the sidewalk of value growth in a business.

Robin Swithinbank: It is a very admirable model. It's a very admirable philosophy. I think what we'll all want to know is what does that actually look like in, in business terms? what kind of businesses are you going [00:12:00] to be running? what sort of products are you going to be making? and when are we gonna be seeing them?

François-Henry Bennahmias: Okay, So first of all, seven verticals.

watchmaking jewelry services. There will be an electric bike company, art, sport, and fashion.

Robin Swithinbank: Seven verticals. That's a lot, right?

François-Henry Bennahmias: We've announced yesterday, only two. We've announced yesterday the electric bike company named Vila and the services company called Avalon because something else I want to do. Since we're building a group, it's almost a movement as well about changing the world of business. We want to go back and be in front of people on a regular basis to show them how secure or not we are. When we announce things, what did work, what doesn't work? We need to adjust change. Eventually, I am more sure that we'll have other verticals.

Robin Swithinbank: Coming into our way because some people will come to us and say, I love this philosophy. Maybe I run, that company. I would love for that company to join the merchants and we'll look at [00:13:00] it. We'll also coach people their own businesses, eventually join the whole merchants venture. So there are many, manythings that will be involved Yeah, I mean, there'sgotta be a good degree of gradual progression. I imagine. I mean, you,you, so you've mentioned Avalon and Vila. tell us a little bit more about these companies, and I guess, as with any company, you've got to attract a consumer. What are these companies going to do to create desirability and bring in a consumer?

François-Henry Bennahmias: So these two. The two that we gotta create from scratch when the others will be based on acquisitions. And two, that got created A lot of frustration. My frustration. Okay, so let's talk about Vila for a second. You see the bike company. I love being on the bike, but I love also being on the bike and going, for a hundred kilometers, ride, 150 kilometers ride, which I would never be able to do on a normal bike.

So with the electric assistance, I do a lot better and I'm enjoying it a lot more. On top of this, being 61-year-old, my cardiologist said, [00:14:00] Francois, there is no point ever again to take your heart rate to 200 a minute, okay? Because you create more damages than actually helping yourself and feeling better.

So what about if I. To go outside for a long time. eventually go on big hills and down up hills and downhill, and the idea was, okay, my dream, I want to do the stages of the Tour de France, the exact stages of the Tour de France. 

Robin Swithinbank: 

François-Henry Bennahmias: at the speed of the guys doing the to France, but being assisted by the power of the ultimate electric bike.

So it's still gonna be a sport, but with a little twist.

Now, what you have to understand in thethe biking world is not known as being very innovative. And for one reason,

Robin Swithinbank: Okay.

François-Henry Bennahmias: because for the last 20 years we haven't seen any major innovations. And for one reason, because they are all constrained with the fact that a bike should never be more than 15,000. Whether, call this US [00:15:00] Euro, Swiss, whatever it is, whatever the currency is. When you pass the 15,000 mark, basically there is no market or at 10,000, it's very difficult. Okay. My philosophy is, I don't agree with this. If I could be a lot more, but you have to give me a lot more. So for me to spend more on the bike and what we're creating is something which is out of the norm.

No one will have ever seen what we're working on. We are working with Astro physicians. Okay. On the bike, we might introduce new materials never used before. we are looking at this not from a bicycle point of view, and I know already the design and already all the suppliers that will work with us.

Some of the top suppliers in the world, I've told us. Finally, someone is opening the doors of something that we've been dreaming about.

Robin Swithinbank: So what are we talking? 20, 25, 30. I mean, how high can you go?

What price can you reach? We talking

20,000, 25,000.

François-Henry Bennahmias: we gonna be at 25 to 27,000 for the high performance one. [00:16:00] Then from the high performance one, we'll have a bike that will, that we call the Super Commuter, where basically use that bike and you leave 20 to 30 kilometers away from your office. We have also a third one, which will be called the urban rocket.

So for the city, so we have three models. The most expensive will be the high performance one, obviously, and then it's gonna go down.

Robin Swithinbank: One of the challenges are better, of course, is to offer longevity. And one of the challenges that occurs to me with an electric bike is that, first of all, the battery, will, lose its potency over time. and of course design moves on as well. Are you gonna be able to guarantee your client's longevity in their products?

François-Henry Bennahmias: Do you want me to give you all the secrets now?

Robin Swithinbank: Sure. Why not?

François-Henry Bennahmias: Good luck.

Robin Swithinbank: I see. I told you it was like being a. is this. What I can tell you is this, the bikes will be presented this year in November, somewhere in the world, not publicly, just for a few people because we will launch officially the bike in June, 2028.

Okay, that's some way off. [00:17:00] tell us in the meantime then you've talked about these other verticals. You've, uh, you've talked about acquisitions, in the watch, the jewelry, the fashion space. what more can you tell us at this point about those and, tell us also about who's gonna be running these things?

Are you running them all? And where's the money coming from? There are so many questions. Give us a bit more of an indication of how this is all coming

François-Henry Bennahmias: Okay, so one, no, I won't tell you anything about acquisitions, which are not finalized, but nice try again. 

because we're finalizing deals as we speak. So we'll have to wait a little bit more to see, but we'll share this as soon as it's done. The next big announcement will be the, in the watchmaking world, obviously, I would say the way it looks now would say end of October, beginning of November.

Robin Swithinbank: intriguing. Okay, we'll look at that.

François-Henry Bennahmias: who is financing this? Very simply, over the course of the last 29 years, I've met a lot of people, wealthy people in the world, but I only need to find one to start the entire thing. And one of my clients that became a real dear friend is basically financing the [00:18:00] whole beginning of the entire venture. So it's one person, but. We know already that we've got people coding and say, Francois, as soon as you know, I want to do something with you. So it's not, it's never gonna be an issue of finding the money, I just don't want money. I want smart money. I want money and people that could bring also, I don't know, access distribution,r and d, uh, things that we don't know anything about now.

So we gotta open the doors slowly. Now between my friend and I financing the entire thing,

David Sadigh: and what are we talking about? Are we talking about five, 10, 50 million to start with?

François-Henry Bennahmias: few hundred,

David Sadigh: Okay.

François-Henry Bennahmias: not

thousand.

David Sadigh: so to support also the acquisition, because basically what you said is that You have two companies that you are like building on your own, and five starting from scratch, basically 

François-Henry Bennahmias: Two studies from scratch

David Sadigh: yeah. Two and five that you 

François-Henry Bennahmias: that we're gonna acquire.

David Sadigh: Okay.

So the ultimate goal is to create a luxury independent group. Is that correct? Inspired, and can you make the link with [00:19:00] Cuccinelli?

François-Henry Bennahmias: Yes. If you go to the place you will see several things. But the first thing is the way it takes care, not only of his employees, but the entire village around the factory. It's in Omeo, beautiful place, very close to Peja. I'm gonna give one example. There is not there one furniture, which is higher than 1.2 meters.

Robin Swithinbank: So that no one's elevated above anyone else in a physical sense, what's the answer? You got me.

François-Henry Bennahmias: David, gimme an idea.

David Sadigh: No, I would say the same. maybe try to make sure that, either everyone can sit at the same level or ensuring that people can take their kids on the lap.

François-Henry Bennahmias: Nope, he wants people to be able to look outside from anywhere. So nothing blocks anything anywhere. I love that the surroundings are beautiful. I say, you know what? That's really nice. I'm gonna give you another example. It's a public compan and they've got hundreds of locations in the world. Emails are forbidden on Friday by five or six [00:20:00] o'clock, and on weekends and in the evenings every day of the week. Forbidden. You cannot send emails to your colleagues past a certain time. Why? Because he wants you to really take care of yourself as well and have the right balance between professional life and personal life. I said I love this idea a lot. Maybe down the road. I just said down the road. The dream would be to create this, same feeling with the merchant venture where we could say to people at some time, at some point. Know what, you gotta work on it four days a week. Who knows? But that could be a goal at some point, depending on where we are. What else? The break, the lunch break is one and a half hour. You know why? Because those people to come. and the kitchen is not a typical kitchen that you would see in the company with a thousand people with trays and no. it's a mom and pop. cooking in the kitchen, big table, Italian style where you got everything and you basically, it's gonna take you 45 minutes to eat and then he wants you [00:21:00] to have 45 minute absolute rest.

Do whatever you want. Do sports, go read a book. He built a library for his employees, by the way. Okay. All those type 

of things. 

David Sadigh: I saw the advertising campaign couple of, days back, with the library. It's of beautiful.

François-Henry Bennahmias: Sure. He built a theater for his employees. Seats and some famous people went to perform there. But guess what? On the surroundings, they were also old factories. He tore them down, all of them, and built,how do you call in English. Oh, where you? Fruits and vegetables 

Robin Swithinbank: a garden.

All right. A garden.

François-Henry Bennahmias: And you know what?

Not for the, only, the employees for the entire village.

Robin Swithinbank: it's all very interesting. This, and I completely understand the philosophy behind it, and goodness, it's very attractive. This is starting to become like a recruitment, video for, potential employees of, the Honorable Merchants Group,

but 

François-Henry Bennahmias: with you, Robin. 

David Sadigh: Yeah, exactly. Are you going to apply?

Robin Swithinbank: Fiercely independent. no. But at the same time,the things that brunello cucinelli's been able to do, surely, largely, if not exclusively as a consequence of the company's extraordinary profitability, there has to [00:22:00] be a very high margin in his product in order to afford to build theaters, to build gardens, to build libraries. but you've said you're not gonna be driven by profits. How do you balance these things? How are you gonna deliver all of this

François-Henry Bennahmias: Wait, wait, 

Robin Swithinbank: being strictly driven by profits?

François-Henry Bennahmias: I didn't say that. First of all, in the luxury world, the cucinelli brand doesn't have the highest margin EBITDA level. You know why? Because he reinvest and spend the money to give a better quality of life to his employees. Okay? So you have a pure ratio is not on the top of the food chain at all. It's like roughly 10 points below. But people respect that so much that the market cap is very high in term of multiple because people embraced the philosophy. Don't forget, profit is not the enemy. Never. And you need profits. You need margins when you develop a business because you need to be able to afford to grow, okay?

To open different locations, different countries, all those type of things. [00:23:00] So you need margin and profit, but it's much more when you have those profits, what do you do with them? Okay? do you want to drain your employees to the last extent and not pay them, and always be very hard on them and not giving them the money they deserve?

Maybe not. You want to give them a real balance between professional life and personal life? Sure. You should. Absolutely. Do you want to be able to do good things outside of the company and potentially support charities, local charities or local other things? Anything? Yes, you should. For this, you need to make money.

Robin Swithinbank: Sure. Yeah. I think we, we can understand that, look, let's try and contextualize this a little bit, because you are launching a luxury group at a time when the luxury industry is facing multiple headwinds, and we don't need to go into what those are. they've been very well documented. what nervousness do you have launching into this market, into this climate?

François-Henry Bennahmias: I'm gonna be very honest with you. 

Robin Swithinbank: And why? 

François-Henry Bennahmias: Because I'm good at navigating in, troubled waters. Because I know what [00:24:00] to do. I see the path. And don't forget, in the world of luxury, it's never a question of do I have the money to buy what I want to buy? 

 I'm not talking about mass luxury.

I'm not talking about buying a scarf. I'm talking about buying expensive items. You always have the money, but what do you have here? What do you have in your brain? What do you have in your mind? What do you have in your heart? Okay, that's going to tell you I'm doing it or I'm not doing it. And sometime it's as simple as, am I connecting with that person from that brand on the human level?

Yes, no. Or was I connecting with a brand? Do I still connect with a brand? Maybe not anymore. How many more stupid emails or text messages I'm supposed to get from brands that dream to get me in their stores every week? How many more of those do I want? 

 No. You know that the ultimate luxury is also sometime to be able to tell a client, I don't have any sell anything to sell you today, and I'm not gonna sell, try to sell you anything. Why don't we have lunch together and talk about life? Your [00:25:00] kids or whatever it is, but just to take the time.

The time, which is the ultimate luxury just to connect. And because of that, and if on top of this you develop extremely qualitative products, there is always a way and there will always be a way, 

Robin Swithinbank: you're gonna have to employ a lot of people on you if that's your approach. If you wanna spend time with your clients having lunch with 'em, you're gonna need an army of people on you.

François-Henry Bennahmias: but I will have an army of people at some point.

Robin Swithinbank: Are you employing to this point to get the business off the ground?

François-Henry Bennahmias: I've got right now 70 people working, 

Robin Swithinbank: And what's that 

François-Henry Bennahmias: by, by end of October, I will, I will say I will add another 250. it, it,I don't even look at it that way. And you have to understand something. I don't want to run, we have to run one company at the beginning. We have to.

You wouldn't understand why later, but told my partners that I'll not do this for the next 10 years, maybe three years. I wanna put younger people in charge and my mission running the group is to coach them. I want to coach the different people and [00:26:00] entities. I'm done running the operation on a daily basis.

That's not what I want to do at all. I won. And I even tell, I, I went as far as telling my wife and my two daughters that if I would actually die tonight, okay, carry the flag. Go because we onto something which is very meaningful and impactful and important for the future of the world. And I don't want to be the face and the thing of this for too long, I'm gonna bring more people around me to make sure that this is beyond me.

David Sadigh: so Francois, does it mean that, the people that are going to join you, the five companies that you have in mind as acquisition, does it mean that the goal is to find like talented entrepreneur that are like interested in getting coached?

François-Henry Bennahmias: Absolutely.

David Sadigh: So you are looking at companies that have already an existing business, but that for a reason or another didn't manage to fulfill their like potential.

The goal is, under your umbrella, under the umbrella of your group and with your network knowhow experience and a bit of like life [00:27:00] coaching, being able to support them a bit. some kind of a mix of a venture studio or some type of those companies that are like trying to provide more than just capital.

François-Henry Bennahmias: Sure. Which is why as we spoke about this before, sure, we gotta make money. Yes, we're gotta be profitable. But I wanna build long term qualitative, well caring entities that will do the things the right way, which is lately missing a little bit in the world of luxury.

David Sadigh: and one follow up question on that. You have been like,working a lot, in the us You spend many, years there. you have been also like traveling around the world. You work with A DTC under your impulsion, lots of boutique work created in the past, but you also have been working at wholesale.

What's your vision, as far as your group is concerned when it comes to like distribution and channels? Are you going to go full DTC.

François-Henry Bennahmias: With maybe one or two few exceptions, but I really do believe that the future of super luxury, you cannot have people between the maker and the consumer [00:28:00] of things anymore for two reasons. One, because the consumer has to know everything about why the maker is making what he makes every day, and he wants to be aware.

He wants to be smarter of understanding what's there. On the other hand, the maker has to understand why he appeals to those people, okay. To potentially help him doing his job better. And the more people you put in between, the more risk you take to dilute the information you want to get the absolute perfect information between the people we make with the people who consume so for me it's very easy to understand how far I wanna go in that respect.

Robin Swithinbank: I'm intrigued by how this is all going to be communicated. when it comes to approaching your potential clients with luxury consumers, how much of this philosophy, if we can call it that the movement as you've described, it, will be communicated to consumers? And what impact do you think that's going to have on them?

Because, to an extent that would suggest that, luxury consumer [00:29:00] appetites, and desires are changing or will change. talk to us about communication, how you're gonna get this message across.

François-Henry Bennahmias: you cannot play people. You have at some point to be really, really real.

Robin Swithinbank: Yep.

François-Henry Bennahmias: And if you claim something, you'd better deliver on your claim.

Robin Swithinbank: Absolutely.

François-Henry Bennahmias: Okay? And because of the more we see and we've seen and we're seeing every single day, a lot of mistakes made by big names, big names in the world of luxury. And I said, okay, let's go back a second. 2020 COVID, the entire world stopped. And if you do remember what was said during those time is that people would behave in a complete different way. It would be a wake up call. People would

travel less. People would do this. The world would become more human and everything.

Guess what? The world went on it. I could have died mode. So wow, let's go and let's celebrate life. there is no more life in [00:30:00] two years and 21 and 22 went insane. mistake made by too many people. They thought that would be a new standard. Guess what? Palm end of 22 being of 23. Wow. The slow down because it went too far. Even if you have money, you really want to hear to get a table in the restaurant in Konos. Okay? You want a table for lunch for two people and need 5,000 euros deposit. Even if you drink water and take a lemon juice, you will spend 5,000 euros. If not, you're not gonna eat your,your table. Into that in 21 and 22, and people say, am I stupid?

Why am I doing this? And then the way you were welcomed in stores, in different stores, in hotels, in restaurants, in everything, it was like, let's go. And Sony, everybody woke up. And people say, you know what, I'm still gonna spend money. I wanna enjoy myself. I want to reward myself and to, I want to please my friends, my family, but [00:31:00] now I'm gonna reassess what am I getting for the money I'm spending? And if you don't deliver on your claim to perfection, good luck for the coming years.

David Sadigh: Francois, you mentioned, Bru. Cuccinelli as one of the inspiration, in what you have been saying. I can feel also a bit of Emmanuel Faber, the former CEO of Danon, who has been also like advocating for a better world, trying to reform also some of the accounting system. But I can feel a bit of Patagonia as well.

Let my people go surfing. What were the other influences?

François-Henry Bennahmias: It's a mix of everything because an influencer could be a complete unknown person Okay. That finish her job or his job, and after that it's gotta go to an, elderly house, okay? To help old people, okay? Because that person feels that he's got a sort of coding or duty or something to do something more with and better with their life.

Just being the nine to five. Go home, watch your [00:32:00] tv, eat and everything. So I've always been inspired by many people that were the absolute unknown in the world, the absolute unknown. The people that just do what they do out of real generosity the way they are. Just, every time I talk about it, I've got goosebumps because I'm touched by those people.

No one will ever talk about. And these are the one giving you the real lessons of life, basically.

David Sadigh: The same one we were applauding during COVID, as nurses and,medical hospital 

François-Henry Bennahmias: yeah, and every time, the chance to meet some of them and to talk about their life and the way they look at life, for me it's a lesson. And I'm not the best, don't get me wrong. I'm not perfect far from it. But every time it's a lesson and as I said before, I'm 61 years old, nobody should say 61 years young now,

Robin Swithinbank: 

François-Henry Bennahmias: and I know pretty much compared to where I'm from, could I ever thought I would be and do what I've done in my life.

No. So my first feeling [00:33:00] is first of all, to say thank you to everything I've experienced, good or bad through my career. And the other thing is, it's my turn now to give back. It's my turn to mentor, it's my turn to coach. It's my turn to help support because I got a gift, I got something. So now it's time to go the other way around.

David Sadigh: But last time I heard that from someone successful in the watch min industry was actually Jean Claude Bever. Remember his speech and I think you were there as well. Remember his speech, couple of years back when it was his latest speech at grand Prix, the re de.

And, I think it's interesting to see that, indeed,there is like some consciousness in the willingness to, improve the world.

François-Henry Bennahmias: I do know Franwell. I was gonna ask you about your motivation, but I think you've answered that question. it was just leaves us really to try and look ahead a little bit if we can. I'm sure you are extremely confident in the chances of success that your business has and that it presents to you and to your investors.

Robin Swithinbank: But if we look five years into the future. This decade finally gives way, and I'm sure we'll be glad to see [00:34:00] the back of it, but, uh,you know, into the 2030s, what does your business look like? What does this group look like? and at the same time, what does the luxury consumer look like? The consumer who is buying into your brand and your businesses.

François-Henry Bennahmias: I really hope that by 2030 the group will be a lot bigger compared to what it is now that everything we have announced, we'll have actually seen the day and be real, and that the movement that we're launching with the whole Nogal Merchants Group. And 

The ultimate dream is that it could become a reference and people will say, there was a before and there is an after and before that, it was not exactly put in those words. And that crazy guy in the Swiss mountains managed to create something which is really special, and the world is embracing this now.

That will be the dream. Now, whether it's at 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, I don't care. I don't care. I care about standing the course and being true to the words we're giving now to the people saying, we're not gonna be [00:35:00] perfect. We will make mistakes. That's a part of success by the way. come with us. We've gotta be as transparent as possible on everything, but we are building something that will last join us. Join us on the venture.

Robin Swithinbank: There's the invitation. Well, look, we was, draw this to a close Fran work, but it's been a huge treat to talk to you today and to hear about your vision for the Honorable Merchants Group, both in terms of its brands, but also in terms of its philosophy, a new frontier for luxury perhaps.

Who knows? We'll see. we wish you all the best with this and, thank you so much for joining us

on the Luxury Society Podcast.

François-Henry Bennahmias: Thank you, David. Robin, and don't forget you to.

Robin Swithinbank: That is a terrifying end. Alright, thanks Francois. Till the next time.

David Sadigh: Thank you. 

Robin Swithinbank: so David, exciting to speak to Francois Andre Benami with his new vision, his new way of doing things.

No shortage of ambition as ever. I last spoke to him in, I think it was November, 2023 as he was preparing to exit em Mar Pega. he was [00:36:00] clearly exhausted, he was clearly emotional. he had achieved an extraordinary amount over the previous 10 years. tripling, the company's revenues. but he was cooked, he was done, he was ready to move on. and he said things to me like, I'll be back. I'm gonna be staying in luxury. I'll be doing what I know what I'm familiar with. He said, I don't wanna work for anybody else. I'm gonna be my own boss. He was quite clear in that respect, and it gave me the impression that there was something bubbling away under the surface. And he said to me, I'll be back in six months. watch this space. Six months passed, 12 months passed, 18 months have passed. It's now 20, 21 months, maybe 22 months, since I spoke to him. And,we now know that, he has been preparing the way for the Honorable Merchants Company with its, multiple verse calls with its new way of doing luxury. it is, exciting to have him back, I would say. What were your immediate reflections on hearing all of that?

David Sadigh: I'm with you,exciting and refreshing. no matter who would've come on the pod, I think telling us that, he has read a hundred of billion million without, giving any [00:37:00] name, buying two companies, one watch brand in the course of the next few weeks, or two months, and like building five venture from scratch.

I'm not sure that, we would've listened that carefully and probably we would've had a bit more skepticism, but because of his track record, I think we are like all very curious and quite excited about,the destiny of the Honorable merchant group. My feeling is that it's always quite interesting when you see someone who has been an employee, even though he was the number one or the CEO, but still being an employee with a board, with a structure, with a legacy of like more than 200 years at Auto Marge to, honor or pre tribute to, it would be extremely interesting to see him starting from a blank page without constraint.

Without,fixed rules without this legacy and, with his own ability to, create the company and the world he wants to see.

Robin Swithinbank: Yes, indeed. and he was, he had a large degree of autonomy while at Ode Pega, but it was [00:38:00] also clear that in some ways he felt restricted. now, ode Ma Pega is of course a very traditional company. It's been around for, this is its hundred 50th anniversary year, and, it's Swiss and it's family owned.

And with that comes certain elements of conservatism. Protestantism, it's a, um.It is on the one hand, a very traditional watch company that makes very beautiful hand finished handcrafted watches in a very recognizable way, even allowing for some of its more dynamic and experimental K shapes and designs. And I think in some way that there was a clash there, that when it worked, it was alchemy at its very finest. And clearly some of the projects that Benami worked on and brought to the table were explosive and hugely successful and made a very great deal of money. But there was a tension there. So yes. Unleashed, will this big beast of the luxury industry, yield incredible results? we of course don't know at this point. I'm intrigued to see him working across these multiple verticals. starting with this E-bike brand, starting with [00:39:00] this, this sort of security company, these are clearly just the very bare bones, the foundations of this honorable merchants company. he's talked about, yes, as you mentioned, a watch company, jewelry companies, art businesses, all sorts of things. And I think he's put, by, just by with this, press conference that, was only a few hours ago, before we, dropped this episode. he has put the luxury industry on notice. I'm coming for you. It's the message, isn't it? And there will be a lot of people who, whose ears will have pricked up today and will be watching to see how he does things, but also how the market responds, if he is right. Then the market is hungry for this sort of luxury marketed in this sort of way, run in this sort of way where value, is, more tangible. but at the same time, the market is cynical. as you outlined, when people come to the market with this new vision, and saying that they're gonna be doing things in this revolutionary way, some people say, wonderful, let's jump on board the bandwagon. And other people say, yeah, come on. I need to see the proof in the pudding before I'm gonna come with [00:40:00] you. so some will be, very, reactionary. Reluctant to follow others will be acolytes very quickly. the question will be whether or not he can, drive significant revenues in, in the short space of time that I suspect he'll be expecting

David Sadigh: It's not easy to create a group from scratch, right? Even when you have the money

and you have access to a strong network and you have, like general management abilities. Renzo also tried to do that, with, OTB, only the brave owning, Martin Margiela and DSL and many other Interesting brand. He didn't just try, in fact, he managed to, to do it. as we discussed during the pod, it was interesting to feel the different flavors of inspiration. Francois mentioned very openly, cuccinelli and the impact of Cuccinelli and the experience that,he had by visiting, Kelli,factories, companies.

the company, the kitchen and everything, and, how the atmosphere and everything made him think differently about it. there is a bit of a, long term plan and legacy one can think about on some of the elements, trying to give back. one can [00:41:00] think about as we said, like Patagonia and, YVO Ena when he wrote Let's my people go surfing and really try to build a company that became a bit like, 

the initial playbook, in fact, for the B Corp movement, and you can really feel this, B Corp, inspired, vision, into the world of,Benam. And I think that was like,extremely interesting to see that,someone would be ready not only, to invest millions or hundreds of millions, but also trying to create.

Not just a watch or a jewelry group, a transversal group across very lots of different categories, really infused by this idea of a stakeholder, let's say distribution and respect for the environment and for the team and so on. Again, exciting times and looking forward of seeing what's going to happen.

some might remember that the world on the street, a couple of months back, maybe one, two years ago, was that, he would potentially join an independent watchmaker and lots of folks were thinking that this would be Char Mill. in fact, char Mill did that. He was an employee in, in a company and at some point he decided to create his own [00:42:00] playbook and, bring the Char Mill brand to life.

I'm like, yeah, quite excited about, seeing this new chapter, coming to life.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, that would've been a good fit in some ways. So Mavericks, unite, but then also Mavericks can collide, can't they? And I can see, even though I'm sure there was some truth in the rumor, just as there'd been some truth in the rumors that RHEL Mill was preparing for sale and the offers had been made, in the end it didn't work out and wasn't to be.

And I think that's probably the best for Francois. and you mentioned legacy, and there are numerous psychologists who pointed out the fact that through our careers we often look for influence. And then at some point beyond influence, we look for significance. And I think this is Francois looking to be significant and how, or at least to have significance beyond his influence. and that's exciting, because he does it with a great deal of energy, imagination, vision and intelligence. and he is, he's a showman. he brings his stories to life in a way that, that very few do. And I think that will be, all to the good. for the Honorable Merchants Company. He'll rub a few people up the wrong way along the way. and that's pretty [00:43:00] unavoidable. but that's often the case with entrepreneurs who, who see a vision and are single-minded in trying to achieve it. I think the speed of it is curious. it's very much the Swiss way normally to go step by step is a phrase that I hear from pretty much every CEOI speak to in the industry, apart from frost. It must be said. and even someone like George Kern, who we had on the podcast a couple of episodes ago. He's building as he said, a house of brands. Next year he will introduce two more into a stable b brightling unit. Jean and Galley will coexist under the one umbrella. they've got huge amounts of money behind them.

Private equity. They of course, will be looking to fatten up the cow. And at some point, no doubt there'll be an IPO there. 2027 was rumored at one point. I suspect it'll be further away than that now. that's three brands from a very capable team of people with a lot of money behind them. Already. Fran Wire is talking about operating across seven verticals with a team of 60 or 70 people behind him at this stage, but taking on a lot more, of course, as he acquires these businesses. the speed is rapid. and even if you have got hundreds of millions behind you, you open yourself up [00:44:00] to making mistakes.

not to sort of verge him to put the brakes on necessarily, but, it could either result in something glorious and technical, or it could be a train crash. We'll see.

David Sadigh: Do you have any hint regarding which watch brand is going to acquire?

Robin Swithinbank: there's no doubt it's, it's talking of the rumor mill. there's no doubt that people are talking about this and, trying to anticipate, which moves he might make. I've heard a few rumors. 

David Sadigh: Does it start with a D?

Robin Swithinbank: I have heard

of one with a D. Yes. two, two words. and, another had suggested that perhaps, he might have been looking to scoop and,and pick up a couple of brands that have not long since been acquired, but are struggling to have a significant impact on the market. truth be known, I have no idea, which brands exactly,are in his, in his sites, but. I suspect that we'll be hearing an awful lot about those brands as soon as he is acquired them because he will inject a huge amount of energy into them. And I'm here for that. I'm here for that. I'm here for the story.

I'm here to see brands create fireworks. And, Francois is a fire starter, certainly.

David Sadigh: It seems that the words are going quite fast, spreading quite fast during the Geneva Watch Week.

Robin Swithinbank: that's it, isn't it? [00:45:00] As soon as the watch community gathers, as it did at the beginning of September, gossip flourishes, rumor flourishes and,it keeps us all entertained, keeps us all on our toes. it's all to the good. and I think that's. The thing about this category, it incite passions, it insights, conversations. and, that's, I think we've missed that with Francois over the past 20 odd months. he was, for better or for worse, sometimes by his own admission, particularly in those excellent interviews I did with him, the subject of some very negative publicity as well as some very positive publicity. Um, Oscar Wilde, of course, is often, quoted,in saying that, there's nothing worse than being talked about.

and that of course is not being talked about. And we've not been talking about Francois for the past 20 odd months, at least not publicly. and, his return, stimulates the conversation, stimulates the market, and hopefully will,bring us all sorts of interesting stories.

David Sadigh: For our listeners who are not from Geneva, and I'm sure that most of them are not,from here, back in the days, it is mentioned that, it was all the gossips and, rumors were starting from the place called pla alah, where people were coming to. Wash [00:46:00] their closing and so on in the fountain.

And that's where, the rumor started spreading. It seems that now it's from La Ratton, where in fact we had all those watchmakers being around. So let's see if all those gossips are like becoming true.

Robin Swithinbank: Well, Roton is the right word, isn't it? As the rumor mill goes round and round. well, let's draw it to a close there and, leave our anticipation, to,to flourish and, um, the story to unfold before us. David, always a pleasure talking to you.

David Sadigh: Speak soon. 

Robin Swithinbank: Thank you for listening to the Luxury Society Podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode and would like to hear more, don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to go deeper into any of these topics, check out luxury society.com where you'll find stories, insights, and profiles that unpack what's going on in the world of luxury right now.

I've been your host, Robin Swithinbank, and this has been the Luxury Society Podcast available on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. [00:47:00]