The show must go on: Ilaria Resta takes Audemars Piguet into a new era

In this episode of The Luxury Society Podcast, hosts Robin Swithinbank and David Sadigh speak with Ilaria Resta, CEO of Audemars Piguet, about leading one of Switzerland’s most storied watchmakers through a period of transformation and challenge.

With a career spanning FMCG, fragrance, and now fine watchmaking, Resta reflects on her first years at Audemars Piguet, the opportunities presented by the industry’s so-called “perfect storm,” and why she sees this moment as a chance to reset the foundations of the brand.

From navigating global headwinds to championing innovation and inclusivity, she shares how Audemars Piguet is preparing for its next chapter while celebrating its 150th anniversary.

Tune in for:
 – How Audemars Piguet is evolving its strategy while staying true to its heritage
 – The importance of client centricity and rethinking the luxury retail experience
 – Why inclusivity and engaging younger audiences are vital for the watch industry’s future
 – The role of partnerships, talent, and creativity in brand storytelling
 – Why returning to Watches & Wonders marks a milestone for AP and the wider watch industry

Brought to you by Digital Luxury Group. 

Produced by Juliet Fallowfield 2025 https://www.fallowfieldmason.com/ 

Transcript

[00:00:01] Robin Swithinbank: hello. Hello. You are listening to the Luxury Society Podcast, a very warm welcome to you. Whether you've been with us since episode one, or you're tuning in for the very first time, this part is brought to you by Digital Luxury Group. I'm your host Robins with Bank. 

[00:00:14] David Sadigh: And I am your cohost, David Sadigh.

[00:00:17] Robin Swithinbank: Now in this episode, we're gonna be continuing our exploration of how the luxury industry works by speaking with El Resta, chief executive of the family owned Swiss Watch company, EMR P Game. Since we recorded our interview with her, the news cycle has spun a few surprises, chiefly surrounding Ilaria's future at the company.

[00:00:35] Robin Swithinbank: We aren't here for wild speculation, we wanna say, nor to pass comment on those rumors. But regrettable, though it is, we do feel obliged to recognize the luxury watch industry, news agenda at the head of this episode. On a warmer note, we wanted to say a quick hello to all our new listeners who've picked us up in season two.

[00:00:53] Robin Swithinbank: And because this is a frictionless democratic platform to invite you to let us know what you think of the Luxury Society Podcast, [00:01:00] share your thoughts in the comments wherever you subscribe. Drop us a note on LinkedIn or Instagram, or you can email us at pod@digital-luxury.com. That's pod@digital-luxury.com.

[00:01:13] Robin Swithinbank: And without looking too closely at our shoes, I should note we've had a few guest sound issues this season, which come because we record remotely rather than in a studio. So apologies for that. And thank you to those of you who have let us know. And we are of course working on it while we're at Work in Progress.

[00:01:29] Robin Swithinbank: Right? Enough for the flimflam time, for the glitz and the glam, which brings me very nicely to David. David on with the show. 

[00:01:36] David Sadigh: Let's do it. 

[00:01:39] Ilaria Resta: This rollercoaster is not over and is part of the story of this industry because I believe this industry is so much connected to the texture of the society we are in.

[00:01:49] Ilaria Resta: You talked about the perfect storm. I turned this into the perfect opportunity to really reset the journey of this company,

[00:01:59] Ilaria Resta: I don't believe [00:02:00] in consumer researchers that are asking questions to clients. I believe in observing clients, being part of their life.

[00:02:08] 

[00:02:08] Robin Swithinbank: The biggest priority for us is actually more complications, for sure and new movements, And so it's now David and my great pleasure to welcome onto the Luxury Society Podcast Ilaria Resta. Now it's almost two and a half years since scenario was named as the surprise new chief executive of Audemars Piguet.

[00:02:26] Robin Swithinbank: The family owned Swiss Watchmaker widely viewed as one of the world's most powerful luxury brands following a successful career in FMCG. The Italian native would join the company in August, 2023. Initially, she shadowed outgoing Chief Executive Francois or Emir, the larger than life character who had helm the company since 2012.

[00:02:45] Robin Swithinbank: During which time revenues boomed thanks to an explosive cocktail of high-end, low volume watches and mainstream collaborations with a potpourri of superstars across music, sport, and film. Ilaria formally succeeded him in January last year. Now in the time [00:03:00] since the luxury industry has hit the buffers, strong headwinds have left Swiss watchmakers battling soaring gold prices, rapid inflation, and most recently sky high US export tariffs, all of which have contributed to what many have described as the perfect storm.

[00:03:15] Robin Swithinbank: But Aria has doubled down pushing through a move into a gleaming new manufacturing facility in the brand's home of Le Brassus, expanding or upgrading some of aps points of sale, and committing to a raft of brave new watches and collaborations. That others might have put on hold until the coast was clear.

[00:03:30] Robin Swithinbank: Just last week, AP made headlines with the news that next year it will return to a Swiss watch Fair for the first time since before the pandemic. Ilaria joins us now to discuss all this and more. El it is lovely to see you. Thank you so much for coming on the Luxury Society Podcast. How are you?

[00:03:46] Ilaria Resta: Very good. Happy to be here.

[00:03:48] Robin Swithinbank: So let's,let's go back a little bit if we can. First, I just want you to take us back to your first day at Audemars Piguet. so much has happened since, but what were your first impressions and how do you reflect on those now?

[00:03:59] Ilaria Resta: Well, first of all, [00:04:00] lemme tell you that the first day at AP was nothing. Common at all as a start for anybody? I think, at least not what I was expecting, because when I join, you know, when you join a new company, you think, okay, I am gonna sit in an office meeting people, have a laptop, but computers start shaking hands, which actually didn't happen because,straight away I've been welcomed in the parking lot and I was taken to a walk. In Le Brassus, which is actually a fantastic way to start because, it's a very typical of AP to take things from a different angle and the angle, they chose and I understand why, was to immerse me. In, in the place where it all started, not only for a p but for the watchmaking industry.

[00:04:45] Ilaria Resta: Yeah. What do you think you inherited? what did you see at the time?

[00:04:48] Ilaria Resta: Well, you know, when you start a new job, especially, you are blessed not to come from the same industry. your eyes and your ears and your senses are all in [00:05:00] alert, right? Because it's everything new. and for me it was incredible to see, this genuine, attachment. To the territory, to the place, the importance of your cradle and how much your origins defines who you are.

[00:05:15] Ilaria Resta: and that's very, was very important for me to understand it because it's a late motive, through all the choices. We have taken today, we took in the past, and we will continue taking, and then the human aspect that people keep repeating. But until you see it and you experience, you don't realize how much, there is a human element, that drives, The quality of the watches we produce. there is the passion, there is the obsession for details. There is the genuine love for the object itself, but also there is this sense of pride that transfer to the watches and then our clients feel that love. And that's, it's very difficult to express it until, you leave it.

[00:05:57] David Sadigh: You have been Ilaria working with both [00:06:00] major public listed companies such as PNG for many years, but then you also worked with, Firmenich, right? Family owned company and, now obviously OD market, still family owned. how would you describe the difference?

[00:06:13] Ilaria Resta: it's been, for me a great blessing and a fantastic opportunity to, to see the different world. I am advocate for diversity of experiences, exposure to, different categories, dynamics, regions. I don't think I've. Stood still since I, I started my career almost three decades ago. and,starting in a publicly traded company, very structured like p and g, which, for many years, and still today is a great school of managers, marketeers.

[00:06:44] Ilaria Resta: with a very strong consumer centric, business model. It's been a school that, created and strengthened the leader. I am today. but then, you know,after, more than two decades there, even though I changed the regions, I felt the need [00:07:00] to expose myself to a new reality. And I didn't feel, any attraction to.

[00:07:04] Ilaria Resta: Stay in the same field, staying still in a publicly traded FMCG company. So Firmenich move, in the fragrance world has been fantastic opportunity also to be exposed to the dynamics of family businesses, Swiss specifically because that's another, segment of a segment. And then we doubt those two experiences I would've never learned.

[00:07:26] Ilaria Resta: into the audemars piguet. So I truly believe at the end of the day with the hand side, we connect the dots of our life and career. Now it makes sense. It was not planned that way.

[00:07:35] David Sadigh: see. The connecting the dots backwards was one of the likeinspiring sentence of Steve Jobs, right? 

[00:07:41] Ilaria Resta: Always backward. It makes sense after. but that's the beauty, right? and the lesson is at the end of the day, don't ask, underestimate the diversity of experience and the randomness. 

[00:07:52] Robin Swithinbank: At the end of the day, for me, it's, it's throughout my life, all the choices I made, which could look like schizophrenic on a piece of [00:08:00] paper, ultimately made the person and the leader I am today. Talking of, what's on paper, you inherited a company that was in Rude Health, reports from the company over the previous decade or so. Always spoke of rising revenues, and Francois was very open about how rapidly those revenue. News were rising. What were your ambitions for the company on taking the res last January and how did those shape your vision and your strategy for it?

[00:08:23] Ilaria Resta: I think, the journey of GUE has been a remark. Remarkable, journey of success, after actually has been a rollercoaster following the rollercoaster of this industry because,what this industry went through different crisis, exposure to the financial crisis, the courts crisis, but also before that, different up and downs and this rollercoaster is not.

[00:08:48] Ilaria Resta: is not over and is part of the story of this industry because I believe this industry is so much connected to the texture of the society we are in. the economy as we live, within is, [00:09:00] part of the culture, the society. So we cannot be, and we shouldn't be immune.

[00:09:04] Ilaria Resta: Now moving forward, I think as a leader, the first thing you do is you assess the context you're in, right? you cannot, draw a, a vision without, being permeated by the,context. are living within. you talked about the perfect storm.

[00:09:21] Ilaria Resta: , I turned this into the perfect opportunity. To really reset the journey of this company, as it reached a very important size, and as any growing, organism and the company is a living organism. It change, as it grows, it evolves. we are no longer the company of.

[00:09:41] Ilaria Resta: 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, So we need to keep adjusting our muscles, our capabilities. We need to keep changing, and morphing, the company without, changing the nature of the company. For me, the biggest ambition is truly ensuring that we, continue [00:10:00] elevating, the urological agenda of the RPE game that we really, open the door.

[00:10:05] Ilaria Resta: To, to more, people that want to discover this wonderful world. and definitely there is a new angle of, client centricity into this vision.

[00:10:14] David Sadigh: I think it's in Chinese. the word crisis could also mean opportunity. have you become, a bit more Chinese, Elia.

[00:10:20] Ilaria Resta: f first of all, for us, the context,has meant to reset, the foundations of the company, because, what we don't see is that, again, when you change in size, You need different muscles, you need different capabilities, and is the unseen outside? We all look at the products. We all look at, at the boutiques.

[00:10:42] Ilaria Resta: that's our face, right to the external world. There is the core of of who we are. There is the inside health of the company that you not necessarily see. And this is where we are also, working on. And we are extremely privileged because we have a great, successful [00:11:00] company,and very high quality, professionals.

[00:11:03] Ilaria Resta: but at the end of the day. We can't stand still. while we have not been impacted by the crisis and we are actually doing well, and we continue doing well. I think we should, be excited about the future ahead and keep building new things.

[00:11:17] David Sadigh: Now you just mentioned the importance of strengthening the foundations, for this next chapter. can you share some example with us of what are the specific foundation you are currently looking at?

[00:11:27] Ilaria Resta: definitely one important aspect, is the talents, in the company, the type of skills. we have, I have a new leadership team, relatively recently, and this leadership team reflects the skills that. We need to continue growing in the future. we are now with the new strategies in place, where we put the accent even more on, on client centricity, innovation and savoir fair, in terms of excellence and watchmaking excellence.

[00:11:57] Ilaria Resta: All these requires a new organization structure to [00:12:00] support all that. We need, to evolve,the what we do, our watches, our innovation in order to serve the clients of tomorrow. and this requires internal capabilities in watchmaking. We are increasing our ability, to also anticipate,the future trends.

[00:12:19] Ilaria Resta: we do that also on the retail side. as we have, Invented the APIs concept, which is a new ways of,creating a relationship with clients. What's next? And we're working on what's next. It is very theoretical. I know, because a lot of things will be announced,as we go. but the idea is really to never stop, keep evolving, and the finding, the balance between don't break, our soul, keep being true to our soul, but at the same time, keep change.

[00:12:44] Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned, AP houses, where of course you have a very direct relationship to your clients. I mean, a,a big part of,the job for any newly appointed luxury company chief executive, is to figure out who your clients are, how they're behaving, what they're thinking. [00:13:00] We know that broadly across the luxury industry, there is a low level of consumer sentiment.

[00:13:05] Robin Swithinbank: Some industry lifers have said they've actually never known a time quite like this. How are your clients behaving at the moment and how are you responding to that?

[00:13:13] Ilaria Resta: First of all, as you said, you need to understand your clients. We are in a privileged position to, have access to clients, and that's a first important, vector of understanding the clients. I don't believe in consumer researchers that are asking questions to clients. I believe in. Observing clients, being part of their life.

[00:13:32] Ilaria Resta: and in a larger sense that goes beyond just, the purchase of watches or the wearing of watches. we have done a lot of work on the segmentation of our clients because also it doesn't exist. One o client. and there are so many facets and so many different aspects.

[00:13:47] Ilaria Resta: And what we learn is that it's not so much a profile of clients from a demographic standpoint or,from an attitude standpoint, but rather we, we segment much more, Client's [00:14:00] needs based on the reason why they wear a watch, which means that as a client, I can change my reasons and my needs throughout the day or throughout the year.

[00:14:13] Ilaria Resta: I am not in. Put into A-A-A-A-A cluster, which is predefined and fixed. my, my attitude can change. and and that's very important for our clients because they don't wanna be, cornered into a specific role. definitely there are conno source or watchmaking collectors who have a certain attitude towards the purchase of the watches and the wearing and the using of the watches.

[00:14:39] Ilaria Resta: but in reality, even the collectors choose watches for different reasons 

[00:14:44] Ilaria Resta: So we are really going deep into the motivation and the attitude of clients.

[00:14:49] Robin Swithinbank: For all the challenges, at some level, the basics of your business won't really have changed. as a manufacturer of hard luxury goods, you make products and then you try and convince people to buy them. These clients you've just described, even when [00:15:00] they don't need them, and even when they know they don't need them.

[00:15:02] Robin Swithinbank: Given the current climate, how has the storytelling around EMR PGA had to evolve, in order to accommodate the way that people are behaving at the moment?

[00:15:11] Ilaria Resta: Certainly the story is becoming more and more interesting. What we see is the clients really wanna know, where do we come from? They are our origins is, for that reason. Actually the anniversary celebration this year as we celebrated the 150 years anniversary has been. Crucial because it gives us, in a way the opportunity to, go back into the origins and explain how we were born, why we ended up doing the things we have done.

[00:15:37] Ilaria Resta: and we noticed by inviting clients to Celebr Sue, by doing a marketing campaign that was all centered around our origins, the level of interest rules incredibly, especially among the younger generations who feel the need of being explained and taken through the different steps of our journey.

[00:15:56] Ilaria Resta: And the more we do that, the more, there is a [00:16:00] desire to get to know even more. That's why we organize visits to the manufacturing. People wanna know how our watches are produced. They wanna get to the point of knowing even the watchmakers behind the specific watch, creating a relationship with watchmakers.

[00:16:15] Ilaria Resta: there is. So much effort we are making now in, opening really the curtains in of the creation and the manufacturing process. That's something that we have done before, but now is becoming,indispensable part of the relationship with our clients.

[00:16:30] Robin Swithinbank: there's a question around, collaborations, sponsorships, partnerships For me here, I can see how expressing the nature of what you do and what you make to your clients is important and will be impactful because there's an emotional quality to that. But when it comes to amplifying the story, when it comes to bringing this story to a new.

[00:16:48] Robin Swithinbank: where will you be taking the brand? Previously we've seen O DeMar PGE aligned to tennis and golf and to marvel and to, hip hop and art and all sorts of categories. What are you gonna be [00:17:00] leveraging, in the future to try and amplify the brand story?

[00:17:02] Ilaria Resta: The choice we took is,moving forward is really not necessarily to choose a territory as such and be loyal to the territory being a specific sport, but rather following the talents, following the people. because what we believe is that, being our journey of people led the journey, we want to really get deeper into the relationship of.

[00:17:23] Ilaria Resta: People that share our values that represent us, starting from their interest in watches. So you will see a wealth of talents of ambassadors, what we call sometimes friend of the brands that are really spanning through different sectors and areas of talent and expertise. We follow them. What we also like to follow is the creative process of these people.

[00:17:48] Ilaria Resta: It could be the creative process of artists, musicians, or the, the development process of sports people. like for instance, the Aryna Sabalenka,the number one tennis player. [00:18:00] what, we like about her and I personally admire for is not only of course, she's the number one of the world, but that's honestly a consequence, of,

[00:18:08] Ilaria Resta: Talent that she kept developing,and working on her own personality, on her own, strengths and,opportunities. It's a human journey that we follow that I found much more interesting than the sport itself. So I, in the future, see, you will see different platforms. Maybe there will be,a sport that we will double down.

[00:18:29] Ilaria Resta: On which I can't announce. but in reality, even more importantly than that, you will see a wealth of,of, people that, we call friends of the brands that will share our, uh, values.

[00:18:40] David Sadigh: Sport is, quite, Highly leveraged territory for luxury brands. we have seen tag year signing major deal in Formula One. 

[00:18:47] David Sadigh: We have seen like brightling announcing NFL, major partnership. we know that tennis is, quite, let's say,developed and secured by Rolex. so how are you going to do that?

[00:18:59] Ilaria Resta: We [00:19:00] don't sponsor necessarily events. I think it's important that we stay true to, the type of,company we are. And we are a people company, a family type of company, and we want to create a deep, relationship with our talents. So if it's sports, for example, I mentioned again, Aina.

[00:19:19] Ilaria Resta: Saca. She is, somebody who plays tennis. She's the number one, tennis, champion. But it is not because, we, we are interested in tennis that she's part of our family, or like Serena for example, she is no longer playing, but she still remains.

[00:19:36] Ilaria Resta: A friend of the brand because we follow her throughout her life. she's a, an excellent example of somebody who transform herself now into an entrepreneur, a mother with many interests outside of the tennis. so I think that represents much more who we are, and the type of,activations we want to do that can start within sport, but not necessarily.

[00:19:58] Ilaria Resta: That's why we're so much also [00:20:00] engaged with World of Art and music, because once again, we follow the talents their life, and we created deep relationship with them.

[00:20:07] Robin Swithinbank: Of course there's an awful lot happening behind the scenes as well. A lot of what you've just described is what consumers will see, but behind the scenes, you've been moving into this new facility, this huge gleaming new factory, in the pursuit, which of course have been on the cards for years. how far through that process of moving into the facility are you, and what impact is it going to have on the business and your production levels and the sort of watches that you're gonna be making?

[00:20:30] Ilaria Resta: Yeah, we are in the final phase of, indeed moving to, the new manufacturing center here in Le Brassus. it's a big transformation, for the way we work. it could have been just a new manufacturing, site, it could have been a bigger site. In reality, we turned that opportunity of moving there, to rethink the manufacturing processes, the different steps, and to increase our expertise further in, in certain specific areas of [00:21:00] watchmaking.

[00:21:00] Ilaria Resta: By putting people together under the same manufacturing you can. Keep on doing the same steps in the same way, or can you can rethink the manufacturing steps and that's what We have been doing, we have been creating a space that should become the excellence of manufacturing, but more importantly, the excellence of creativity when people are together.

[00:21:20] Ilaria Resta: They talk, they exchange they challenge each other. and that's what's happening. We are rethinking the flows of production, rethinking ideas. and this is the beginning of a new ways of conceiving manufacturing. So I, I seea lot of innovation happening just because we are moving also into this new site.

[00:21:40] Robin Swithinbank: Does that mean that you'll be able to increase production, that you're gonna be making more watches?

[00:21:43] Ilaria Resta: We can, but that's not the agenda in all honesty, because,the starting point for me is, , one priority is elevating the innovation and the quality of watchmaking. and the. The role the complications play in our [00:22:00] portfolio should increase even further. We are working on new calibers. We kicked off the work on new movements, new complications, and we are investing a lot on new materials.

[00:22:10] Ilaria Resta: And this is an important agenda that we are accelerating. All these doesn't necessarily translate into more watches maybe? Yes, but the biggest priority for us is actually, more complications. For sure and new movements. so this goes well ahead. The target of increasing quantity.

[00:22:30] David Sadigh: I how this is related to, Innotech, the watch component, manufacturer and supplier to a number of brands that, recently acquired.

[00:22:39] Ilaria Resta: That's an excellent point, David. It fits absolutely in the agenda that we have and the vision. To, perfection our manufacturing process and innovation process. Innotech is, great company we've been working with for multiple years, and we have definitely a common agenda of [00:23:00] innovation and elevating, quality, and we want to keep them.

[00:23:04] Ilaria Resta: At the same time separate from us, because we like, and we want them to continue, of course, to supplying other clients because this is the best way for everybody to raise the bar, right? The intent is not to verticalize capabilities, uniquely for the market, but it's rather. Make sure that by raising the bar for the entire industry, by continuing being interconnected with the other players, we can do even more in this wonderful industry

[00:23:35] David Sadigh: Do you consider other acquisition?

[00:23:37] Ilaria Resta: potentially.

[00:23:38] David Sadigh: What type of acquisition specifically?

[00:23:40] Ilaria Resta: we are not, we don't have a very detailed agenda and I certainly cannot share any details, but the idea is we are interested in elevating, our capabilities. It could be done with make or buy. We can build them inside or. We can buy, we can invest, we can do partnership. It's not necessarily buying.

[00:23:58] Ilaria Resta: we keep all the [00:24:00] options open. The options, I personally, like the most, are the ones that allow us to keep being connected with the external world. If when you buy a company you deprive. the industry from that player. So we want to avoid, being isolated in the industry.

[00:24:18] Ilaria Resta: and I think because ultimately we are born, in full support with the industry. We are a relatively small player and we got the most. Seen throughout our history by working with others in partnership with others. there are so many partnership we've done with many of the other brands is important that we keep that, that interconnectivity alive.

[00:24:38] Ilaria Resta: these are all the considerations that we make when looking at, opportunities. definitely we have multiple projects in partnership with the suppliers or other brands. And this. Partnerships are extremely precious in bringing new ideas.

[00:24:52] Robin Swithinbank: It is good to hear you talking about being part of a bigger industry. You say you're a small part of it, you may be in volume terms, but of course in terms of [00:25:00] influence you are anything but small. And I wonder how much of that has played into, or what has been rumored for some time, but which you've now confirmed, which is that Otmar PGE will exhibit at watches and Wonders Geneva next year for the first time having bad out of its predecessor, SIHH.

[00:25:15] Robin Swithinbank: Many years ago at the time,the event's low cost of value ratio and the company's rapid move into a direct consumer retail model was cited as the reasons to leave the show. Not much has changed on that front, so why enter the show now?

[00:25:30] Ilaria Resta: Man, this is, the first time we joined Watches and Wonders. So for us, watches and Wonders is, a great platform to connect with the industry. we are going to do it our way, so we will, Definitely participate to this, this fair in a way that, belongs to the codes of communication and engagement we have with clients and the other members of the industry.

[00:25:55] Ilaria Resta: we are not going change the business model of being a direct to consumer. actually we are [00:26:00] continuing our expansion in also new countries and regions, potentially with the very same model. But, I believe watches and wonders is. A great platform that managed to do, few things extremely well.

[00:26:14] Ilaria Resta: First of all, the support to the small, newcomers in the industry, the independent brands is a fantastic platform for them. And, we are. An important player,in watchmaking, and I believe we have the duty, the opportunity, and the responsibility to keep this industry alive and thriving.

[00:26:33] Ilaria Resta: I keep repeating that. I do not see the other players as competitor. I see them important actors together with us in raising the awareness, the passion, the interest for an industry that is so small, but with huge, potential. and only altogether , we can attract. more people interested in the industry.

[00:26:51] Ilaria Resta: There is also an aspect of opening the doors to new people. the number of visitors watches in Wonders and Public visit is very high [00:27:00] a thing that didn't happen in the past. So I personally like how much also the City of Geneva participates with all events around the watches in Wonders.

[00:27:08] Ilaria Resta: So for me it's a, it is a perfect platform. and support, the passion for watchmaking.

[00:27:14] Robin Swithinbank: I gotta say, I'm so pleased to hear you say that. From a purely personal perspective, I think I've championed the shows for a long time. Back in the late teens when there was a groundswell of opinion that shows were an outmoded. Concept in a digital age. I think they do so much to connect the industry and to communicate the industry and to raise the core temperature of the industry for a global audience.

[00:27:32] Robin Swithinbank: and so I must say I'm delighted to see you guys return and I think you will do wonders forward as a show, and you will help amplify the story, not just to the show, but of the whole industry, which I think is to its great benefit. good to have you back, I must say.

[00:27:44] Ilaria Resta: I look forward, I really look forward. I've always been there, among the public. So happy to be there with, the.

[00:27:51] 

[00:27:52] Robin Swithinbank: Well, next year it'll be your hundred 51st anniversary. it's been a hundred 50th this year, and you've produced, some remarkable watches. No doubt there are more to come, including I [00:28:00] think one next week that we can't talk about today. But that's all come, for the Swiss watch industry.

[00:28:04] Robin Swithinbank: This, of course, hasn't felt like much of a celebratory year. Has this been a good year or a bad year to reach this milestone anniversary?

[00:28:11] Ilaria Resta: It has been the right year because this is the year when we celebrate the 150 years anniversary, and we wanted really to mark this milestone in a way that is positive.

[00:28:22] Ilaria Resta: Yes, it's a tough year. it's been a. Couple of tough years for the industry and and I think in this very moment it's even more important that we pose and we celebrate what we've gone through in the history and watchmaking. So it's a message of positivity. I am personally extremely positive that this industry has a role to play in the future and for many, hundreds of years to come.

[00:28:45] Ilaria Resta: I think we have never been stronger in terms of fundamentals. Of this industry in the sense that if you look at the number of people interested in watchmaking has never been so high. Yes, there are many reasons of [00:29:00] fluctuations and we're not gonna spend time in repeating what everybody knows what's happening.

[00:29:04] Ilaria Resta: But I think what we need to get confident about is that there are not a shaking up of the fundamentals. there is not a shake up on the desire of people. To by collect, a mechanical watch. This has never been stronger In all honesty. Celebrating an anniversary in this moment shows that this is the moment to double down and to double click and invest and continue innovating.

[00:29:29] Ilaria Resta: And we are in the privileged position to be able to do so because we are actually performing. very well this year as well. this is a moment where actually when launching a big innovations like the perpetual calendar, which is a big revolutionary movement, frankly, has been accepted so well by clients and,it's sold already.

[00:29:49] Ilaria Resta: So it's shows that, this is the moment to not stop, but carry on and be proud to be in this industry.

[00:29:55] Robin Swithinbank: Oh, it's good to hear you say, because you know, some people have to. This is an existential event, comparing [00:30:00] it to the events of the court's crisis, which you've mentioned, and of course that blew away more than half the Swiss watch industry 50 years ago. And it's, to be honest with you, I think it's inevitable.

[00:30:07] Robin Swithinbank: There will be some casualties again in this climate. But, uh, you are remaining optimistic, positive, upbeat. You think that, the future is, is golden for this industry.

[00:30:16] Ilaria Resta: I think so, but we need to do the right things. We need to continue, as much as possible to invest in quality and innovation. and support the players, the suppliers, who belong to this industry and, we cannot forget that,the we exist also, and most importantly, thanks to suppliers who manage to keep certain our fair, certain expertise alive.

[00:30:38] Ilaria Resta: And if we don't do that, this expertise will disappear. So this is the responsibility we have as players in the industry, and that's why I want success for everybody, because this is the only way. To ensure the future is bright.

[00:30:52] David Sadigh: you highlighted really clearly, Larry, the importance of acting in the United Way, as a. As an industry and trying to, [00:31:00] raise,our voice and the Lux c watch industry's voice around the world and so on. now with the current situation around the world, with the situation in the us with the situation in China, we can see that there is a need of potentially developing new region, right?

[00:31:15] David Sadigh: Some region were already developed. Should be probably further developed. We have seen India that is like changing some of the import duties. We have been hearing companies investing more in Saudi Arabia. what are your views when it comes to those, let's say, promising markets and what should we as an industry, not just as all the market, do, to ensure that, they start, loving watches even more, and potentially buying also more watches from us.

[00:31:40] Ilaria Resta: And that's exactly what I mean, David, by the fundamentals of the industry are strong in the sense that if you. Look now at the map of the world, you will see, people interested in watchmaking. Virtually everywhere in the world is no longer, the, the US Europe or, but more and more, or Japan.

[00:31:58] Ilaria Resta: There are more and more regions. That are [00:32:00] popping up, with interest in mechanical watches. The other fundamental changes that the average age of people interested is going down. So we see more and more younger people getting, into these, industry with much higher interest than the previous generation.

[00:32:15] Ilaria Resta: We see women that before represented much less than 40% of the clients. And now there is 50 50 interest men and women. So you see so many, pockets of growth everywhere. Region is another important one. What can we do? We need to attract people and to do so, we need to open the door.

[00:32:33] Ilaria Resta: So watchmaking, that's why I believe that the formats of retail should be a format of opening door. And not extreme exclusivity. And by that I mean make sure that we offer the chance to people to discover this world. our advertising, our communication needs to entice the discovery, the knowledge and understanding 

[00:32:55] Ilaria Resta: we are doing master classes now more and more because we discover and we know that when [00:33:00] people touch the watches and the movements and the components. They realize the beauty of what's behind the mechanical watch. So this hands-on is important and I can go on and on.

[00:33:09] Ilaria Resta: That's why also our new retail concept of our new ways of engaging with clients will put forward this, uh, edutainment part, that is fundamental. Before they. Eventually can, purchase a watch, then this universe of engagement is critical to keep on nourishing the future watch meet.

[00:33:28] David Sadigh: I remember you and I speaking couple of years back, before you joined about the importance of sustainability. and I remember that this was a course that was, like extremely important to you. now that you have discovered a bit more the watchmaking industry, do you think that, sustainability and watchmaking production have a common destiny?

[00:33:46] Ilaria Resta: Absolutely even more, more convinced about the importance of that. Of course, you need to find the angle where you can make a difference to avoid, to be,greenwashing and, and just promising, empty, empty things. But [00:34:00] the idea is really define where you can make a true impact. In watchmaking, you can make impact, definitely in the sourcing of materials.

[00:34:07] Ilaria Resta: you can make, A much bigger impact on the social aspect of sustainability. and I go back to preserving the cultural, savoir faire the cultural expertise that would disappear if we didn't invest into the development, the schools, the apprenticeship programs. We need to preserve the hands.

[00:34:27] Ilaria Resta: We're talking, manual works. we need to make, ensure that. We don't make a, the mechanical language disappear from our knowledge. And, and all this is a responsibility for all the players of the industry. And then of course all the rest,will follow the other good steps to preserve the environment.

[00:34:47] Ilaria Resta: We are extremely invested in making every choice sustainable for the long term.

[00:34:51] Robin Swithinbank: Great. aria, let's draw our conversation to a close on that, upbeat note. You're so kind to have shared your time and so many insights with us today. It's been genuinely eye-opening talking with you. [00:35:00] Thank you so much for joining us on the Luxury Society Podcast.

[00:35:03] Ilaria Resta: Thank you Robin and David.

[00:35:04] David Sadigh: Thank you now. 

[00:35:05] 

[00:35:08] Robin Swithinbank: . So David, at the top of this episode, we noted that since we recorded this interview with a, there's been a lot of online speculation about her future, the rights and wrongs of that to one side. What I can say is that I don't know how much further we have to add here, other than Dumar.

[00:35:22] Robin Swithinbank: PGE has flatly denied there's any truth in what amounts a little more than rumor, and that when questioned on it at an event in Hong Kong recently, aria told journalists not only that she wasn't going anywhere, uh, but she also said AP sales are up. she said 12% up year on year, January to August, which I suspect unconfirmed by the brand, but I suspect is due in part to front loading US inventories ahead of tariff impacts.

[00:35:43] Robin Swithinbank: But, that is little more than conjecture on my part at this point. What are your thoughts?

[00:35:48] David Sadigh: No, I agree with you. I think speculation is always always quite tricky and, I'm under the impression that,it's difficult to come in a leadership position after like many years of growth. And [00:36:00] I think she was clear on the fact that, most of the work she was doing were focused on some of the internal elements and obviously the internal stuff are not always the shiniest.

[00:36:10] David Sadigh: I think, that's probably my perception at the moment. So what do you think of the perfect storm as a perfect opportunity?

[00:36:16] Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, an interesting point. one that's been made by p of her peers, across luxury. in a sense that is, the sort of thing you'd expect. A senior executive who's got lots of experience at working at multinational companies might say, she talks a very good corporate game. that doesn't of course make her alone in the watch industry.

[00:36:33] Robin Swithinbank: And there's, but that's not without its advantages. I think this idea that she is going to take this as an opportunity to sort of resetthe way the company, functions, the way it's run internally. this isn't sexy stuff. She's been very clear about that in a number of interviews. but it is important, and I think she does that with authority and with credibility.

[00:36:52] Robin Swithinbank: I obviously don't know the finer workings of OTR pga. I don't work, I never work there. but I can imagine that,she's got a point when it comes to this stuff. AP did grow [00:37:00] fantastically over the past decade. She calls it glory growth. I've heard her say that I think's quite nice term as well.

[00:37:05] Robin Swithinbank: And at some point you have to have a structure in place that can cope with that kind of growth. Otherwise, your business might collapse like a house of cards or something. But, a lot of that work, of course, began before her arrival. I think we should say that too. She's overseeing the completion of this move into a huge stage of the art new facility.

[00:37:21] Robin Swithinbank: but nonetheless, I think she sees the landscape pretty clearly, really. The danger with a category like watches is particularly when you are dealing withuh, very high value brand like AP is that you can navel gaze, you can, your depth of field can become very shallow and the focus gets jammed on collectors and quite a narrow slice of very wealthy buyers.

[00:37:39] Robin Swithinbank: I think what we've spoken to her and I've spoken to her a couple of times recently, she's very tuned into the fact that some of these traditional markets can be pretty reliable, but they don't necessarily offer the best opportunities for meaningful growth over the long term. so she talks about looking beyond the US and Europe and Japan, and I think she's, I.

[00:37:56] Robin Swithinbank: She's right to identify. There are other countries around the world, where [00:38:00] there is potential for growth, where there are new, customers. Same thing with age and gender. She talked about both of those as well. And she's very aware of the potential that there is to draw in a younger clientele, to draw in a more female clientele.

[00:38:12] Robin Swithinbank: And my hangup though, having said that, and I still feel there's this kind of paradox here that the industry hasn't really got a solution for, is that while making more and more people interested in the category, while bringing in more and more types of customer at the same time, the industry appears very content to make fewer and fewer watches at higher and higher prices.

[00:38:29] Robin Swithinbank: And those two things do clash. AP has told me it'll make, 53,000 watches this year. So a couple thousand more than in 2023 when they last reported a figure. But that isn't gonna move the industry volume needle and create loads of watches for all these new interested parties to invest in. But that's, maybe that's a slight aside. What do you think about her approach to marketing, which is something that we went into in some depth with her.

[00:38:50] David Sadigh: Yeah, there were two things that, strikes me during the interview. one was this idea of Really joining and supporting the luxury Swiss watch industry ecosystem, and mentioning the [00:39:00] idea of a network and alliances more than pure verticalization. the fact that they decided to,come back to watches and wonder, I think is an extremely strong signal.

[00:39:09] David Sadigh: we idea of not only being visible, obviously it's the 150 anniversary, but also, as she, she mentioned, being able also to, to contribute to, the overall ecosystem. Entering that by strengthening this like overall ecosystem, they are also, building like a stronger position for otology. And I think that's probably the mindset in the current,Eternal that we are like facing, that is probably the right mindset and we are going to be stronger together. and I think that was like something that,was important. as far as the marketing is concerned. I think the positioning of the brand right now towards next generation, and she highlighted that the importance of trying to be inclusive, the way she's giving to women segment.

[00:39:52] David Sadigh: And it's interesting. I went to the AP website and you can see that they got rid of men, women, and typical gender differences. it seems that they are a bit at [00:40:00] the forefront as far as, let's say, inclusivity. And genderless type of communication is concerned. So I think those elements are key.

[00:40:06] David Sadigh: and then going back, like to your point about like prices and production and so on, AMED the impression that her goal seems to be, to stabilize, the company and,put or reinforce some of the basics. And, regarding the wealth, I mean, you know,the world is moving towards, wealthier people and, obviously when you sell, entry level handbags or entry level watches and people buy your product based on their income, it makes the overall equation a bit more sensitive and more difficult to predict.

[00:40:35] David Sadigh: Now, if you look at the amount of wealth currently being created, if you look at the, wealth that is being amassed across different countries, just California in itself. It seems that this represent a tremendous potential for ology brands, such as like the Patek and all the others.

[00:40:51] Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, I completely agree. I, although at the same time as I said before, I think that, that solves one problem while creating another one, particularly if you've got lots of people interested in the category, who then can't [00:41:00] afford to get into it. So that creates a frustration. But also we know there are alternatives, there are other experiences, there are other products that consumers can go and invest in.

[00:41:06] Robin Swithinbank: And long term, if your customer is going somewhere else, that's not necessarily gonna be the best for you in your business and your industry. I like what you said about watches and wonders, and I completely agree with you there. I really appreciated her recognition of Odem r PGA's responsibility to the industry, to the global business of selling watches.

[00:41:23] Robin Swithinbank: They, interestingly though, on that point, she said, she's not going to be selling watches. It's not going to become a platform for loads of new launches. They're going to use it as a platform for savoir faire. which maybe means the future of the watch, show, changes a little bit and maybe it does become more of a focus for, of expertise, rather than product itself.

[00:41:40] Robin Swithinbank: We'll see. but I think it's fantastic that they're there and, there's no doubt that the Rolex is the Parex, the Chanels of this world will be delighted to have AP back in the fold. And, the pressure will only grow on the likes of Swatch Group and Brightling and maybe even Rochelle Mill. Think about returning, but, that's for another day.

[00:41:54] Robin Swithinbank: I suspect. I want, I wanna go back to the marketing point as well, because. approach to marketing seems it's just [00:42:00] quieter, isn't it? I think is probably the right word to use. I don't wanna say it's any less significant or any less important, but it is quieter. and there's no doubt that the sort of friend of the brand story, whether they're doing that with Arena, Sava Lanka, who's obviously the world's number one tennis player.

[00:42:13] Robin Swithinbank: already this year for the hundred 50th anniversary, they released that single recorded by Mark Ronson and Ray that, to be honest with you, it barely scraped into the UK charts. Having looked at the numbers recently, it's all nice and cozy, but it would be my contention that if o DeMar PGE is to maintain its position and we know Morgan Stanley and Lux consult have AP at fourth among the luxury watchmakers ahead of Patek, ahead of Resub meal, ahead of Aron and all sorts of others.

[00:42:36] Robin Swithinbank: But in order to stay in that position, I think AP needs big marketing stories. It needs some explosive look at me moments. I can't help but feel that so much of the brand's legacy is now tied up in popular culture, and in its previous record, creating the luxury zeitgeist if you like. It's been sort of an espresso martini brand for the past 15 years.

[00:42:55] Robin Swithinbank: And if it becomes a cup of tea and a biscuit brand, frankly, I don't see it maintaining its momentum.

[00:42:59] David Sadigh: [00:43:00] I, I agree with you and 

[00:43:01] David Sadigh: think the value retention is a very important indicators that we have been, looking at, quite carefully at, at DLG, and we can see that. Obviously the royal oil collections that like represent a major chunk of auto Mars business, are like keeping globally speaking quite a good level of like retention value.

[00:43:19] David Sadigh: Now that's a risk as well because they have a lot of their eggs into one basket. This, uh.Iconic,uh, Royal Collection. And I think one of the goal of, esta will probably be to also manage to diversify and build other collections such as like IWC for example, managed to do such as Rolex has been doing, Patek have been doing and many other brands as well.

[00:43:42] David Sadigh: And I think,as far as the marketing is concerned, I think. Not only, it's important to have a very strong umbrella message and, create the durability towards the next generation, while still remaining relevant towards your existing client base. But at some point, it's also very important to ensure that you have like different [00:44:00] collection with different price point appealing to, like the different segment of your clients.

[00:44:04] Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, I agree. And I think this goes back to the marketing point as well, because at some point you need to have something to hang your hat on. That's a horrible cliche, but she talked about, focusing on talent rather than territories. And I can see the sense in that. I can see that she is going to learn a lot from working with talent, particularly creatively.

[00:44:21] Robin Swithinbank: That's clear. But then as we've discussed on this podcast many times over, over the sort of 15 or so episodes that we've now done, when brands focus on one territory and make it their home, they become known for it and it can be enormously effective. And, Very powerful for their brands.

[00:44:37] Robin Swithinbank: You look at Tacho most sport Rexs and golf and tennis, hub blown football AM Omega in the Olympics and so on. even brightly in the NFL, although of course it's far too early to say we're positing that will be effective at this point. We don't know after just one month, but, AP has been, very good at focusing on three or four 

[00:44:52] Robin Swithinbank: different territories with its marketing and it's backtracked from quite few of those. It's not in golf at all anymore. The tennis story has gone, pretty [00:45:00] quiet apart from Sba Lanka, but a little bit of Serena Williams still involved there as I understand it.

[00:45:03] Robin Swithinbank: But, the focus on the music and the arts, I think needs to ramp up very quickly if it's to be effective. We haven't mentioned Marvel and the, that universe, which of course AP has been very closely involved in the past 10 years and that, that appears to have gone quiet, for the meantime as well.

[00:45:17] Robin Swithinbank: She's got to generate a lot of noise, in this much more sort of sophisticated manner that I think is typical to her, without these sort of big name partnerships, to amplify it all. Basketball's another one, of course, there's no talk of basketball suddenly, where's LeBron James?

[00:45:30] Robin Swithinbank: Who knows? But yeah, I think, uh, AP could also just be a different case because its volumes are so much lower. Its values are so much higher. but it's grown to its current size in both sales and also reputation on the power of its marketing. I'd argues not simply the appeal of its complication in watchmaking prowess.

[00:45:44] David Sadigh: If you look at the, let's say, entry level ticket for like major sponsorship nowadays, you can really feel that Rolex is, more an exception than the norm. You cannot find so many independent watchmaker nowadays that can like really secure a [00:46:00] long-term partnership, with one of those sports. We have mentioned that, during a previous episode with omega in the Olympics and obviously like the different partnership of Rolex, and.

[00:46:10] David Sadigh: but I think that it's going to be complicated for a brand of the size of respectable size, but not at the size of some of the big group who can like, create synergies amongst the different brands and so on. So personally, I'm not seeing those brands being able to, coin some. Huge partnership across sport except maybe breitling did on one specific sport in one major country.

[00:46:32] David Sadigh: but I think that the entry price is probably too high nowadays to, enter into tennis, golf, or Formula One at a global level.

[00:46:39] Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe that's what Aria has figured out. David Wright ever a pleasure. But we must wrap up. see you on the other side of the Midseason break.

[00:46:46] David Sadigh: Speak soon. 

[00:46:48] Robin Swithinbank: Thank you for listening to the Luxury Society Podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode and would like to hear more, don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to go deeper into any of these topics, check out luxury [00:47:00] society.com where you'll find stories, insights, and profiles that unpack what's going on in the world of luxury right now.

[00:47:07] Robin Swithinbank: I've been your host, Robin Swithinbank, and this has been the Luxury Society Podcast available on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. 

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