Not for everyone: Michael Lohscheller's common sense approach to Polestar

In this episode of The Luxury Society Podcast, hosts Robin Swithinbank and David Sadigh explore how innovation, sustainability and intelligence are reshaping luxury, through two timely conversations. 

The episode opens with Michael Lohscheller, CEO of Polestar, who discusses leading a premium EV brand through global uncertainty, Polestar’s positioning as a design-led brand “not for everybody,” and why disciplined growth, sustainability and retail trust remain central to its long-term strategy. 

In the second half, Pablo Mauron, Managing Partner at DLG (Digital Luxury Group), joins Robin to unpack why the luxury industry is stuck in an "experimentation gap" despite widespread urgency, introducing Model Context Protocol (MCP) as a way that could transform AI tools from generic assistants into luxury intelligence strategists.

Tune in for:

• Why EV adoption is a long-term transition, not a short-term race
• How Polestar balances performance, sustainability and brand focus
• The role of trust and retail experience in scaling a premium EV brand
• Why delaying AI adoption compounds competitive disadvantage
• How Model Context Protocol could redefine intelligence in luxury

Brought to you by Digital Luxury Group. 

Produced by Juliet Fallowfield 2026 https://www.fallowfieldmason.com/ 

Transcript

Michael Lohscheller: [00:00:00] we don't offer cars for everybody, right?

 A couple of years ago, everybody was thinking like, okay, within three years everybody will drive electric. that cannot happen. Will not happen, is not happening.

 pollster has a future because our customers are much younger than the average in the market. And why is that? It is because of sustainability. 

we have a project, for example, where we aim to produce a car without any emissions at all.

 Polestar grew by 34%. We sold more than 60,000 cars. We had the best year in the history of the company. So I would say first thing is don't change anything.

Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome back to the Luxury Society Podcast, brought to you by Digital Luxury Group. As is typically the case, I'm your host, Robbins Swen Bank..

David Sadigh: And I'm your co-host, David Sadig.

Speaker 2: David again. A week is a long time in luxury. LVMH has reported since we were last on with annual revenues and profits down, and the group's Chairman Bernard aau, lacking some of his usual bounce in [00:01:00] warning investors that 2026 isn't going to be.

Easy or straightforward prompting the group's share price to tank. Uh, meanwhile, the fashion world is sashing its way at pace through the fashion weeks as it looks to revive flagging consumer interest. Rolex has announced it's going to back the rebel PIF funded live golf league defying its own rules on swinging the same way as the golfing establishment.

And rumors have started to circulate that. The next CEO of Ta Hoya might just be a woman the first to helm a brand in the LVMH group's. Watch Division. David. Those are my inbox highlights. Anything land in yours with an equivalent? Bang.

Pablo Mauron: Always so well informed. Robin, 

Speaker 2: yeah, try and keep my finger on the pulse

David Sadigh: yeah, no, on, uh, on my side, I think that, uh, indeed, uh, there is some, expectation management amidst the current, , overall business and, uh, geopolitical climate. And, uh, I think that there is a question of How the situation is going to stabilize, uh, as far as, uh, the political part is, concerned.

So, uh, yeah, as we said, like very, uh, [00:02:00] interesting year ahead, and, uh, lots of, interesting news also on the, on the brand side. Love the fact that, uh, Rolex is expanding into Gulf and, uh, protecting the Gulf territory. maybe as a, some kind of reaction to the Formula One.

Robin Swithinbank: yeah, I think that's one reading of it. And yes, we see Rolex's deepening its investment in sport and indeed luxury brands seem to be investing heavily in sport across the board.

I dunno whether you saw that news this week that, uh, Frederick Con Star has just invested in padel, which seems to be an area of growing interest for luxury brands

Pablo Mauron: Yeah. Not surprised. I, myself, I've been like playing pedal for a couple of years now. I'm like not a good player, but I have to say that, I've been able to witness the overall enthusiasm, across what is being described as the world fastest. Growing,sport, lots of luxury brands have been jumping on the bandwagon of paddle, cus and Kiss and Versace Prada Rolex signed couple of days ago with, uh, one of the best player in the world.

So it was not really a surprise, to see Fredrik joining the [00:03:00] paddle bandwagon. And I'm pretty sure you will see more and more brands. Interacting with paddle in the years to come and who knows? Maybe some of the new manufacturer, like the Hublot one, also opening some paddle court next to their manufacturer.

Robin Swithinbank: yeah, I, I can see that happening. Uh, I'm just wondering if you've been playing the sport for two years, you must be ranked what inside the world's top a thousand, top 500 now

David Sadigh: Yeah, probably in Geneva in the top 100 of Geneva, which gives you an idea of my level.

Robin Swithinbank: well top 100 in your own household, I'm sure.

Uh, right. Yeah. I mean, kind of padel caught my eye as well. And I can't say that I think Frederick Constance pedal pounce is gonna be a smash for the brand. Pardon me? But I can see why. I can see why it's worth a punt. Uh, that league is based in North America, which aligns the brand to the luxury watch industry's largest market in the US and one of its fastest growing markets in Mexico.

Yeah, I watched that space. Uh, you mentioned Art Coello as well, and I saw that, he's got an Instagram following of 750,000, so paddle's starting to grab the world's attention. Anyway, uh, we've got a show to do. So let's just say that [00:04:00] later on I'm gonna be interviewing D G's very own Pablo Marron, who's going to be making a welcome return to the podcast to explain to us all why we need more MCPs in our lives.

What's an MCP?we'll keep listening and Pablo will tell you, but first, David and I will interview Michael Lohscheller, chief Executive of the Swedish EV brand. Polestar. Michael's always in high demand that after a couple of near misses back in the autumn, we finally got to speak to him last week.

Here's how we got on.

Robin Swithinbank: So this week, the Luxury Society Podcast is going electric. David and I are very pleased to welcome to the show, Michael Ler, CEO of the Swedish Electric Performance Car brand. Polestar. Before we speak with Michael, a quick. Polestar biography. Polestar began life in the 1990s as a Motorsport team and then became Volvo's performance division before in 2015.

It was acquired by Volvo and the Chinese giant Geely becoming a standalone brand in 2017. In 2019, it launched its first car, the Polestar one, a 600 brake horsepower performance hybrid limited to [00:05:00] 1500 examples. It was the precursor to the main event, namely a fleet of fully electric vehicles designed to spearhead the drive towards our electric future. The Polestar two, three, and four have since followed with the highly anticipated Polestar five grand tour due later this year, and the six and seven to come beyond. In each case, the cars combined, paired back Scandinavian design, high performance state-of-the-art technology, and a commitment to sustainable manufacturing. But more than that, Polestar has defined a new era of premium all electric car design taking on brands such as BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Tesla, and competing in a market that's very separate from the slew of mainstream Chinese EV brands. Now led by the world's largest car manufacturer, BYD. Last year, the company introduced the Polestar three and four into the luxury electric SUV segment.

The four made waves in particular by doing away with a rear windscreen, and instead beaming the rear view onto a mirror via a camera mounted into the car's roof. The success of these [00:06:00] cars combined with the continued growth of its now well established two, propelled the company to more than 60,000 car sales last year, a company record and an increase of 34% year on year. Moreover, Polestar outsold the EV division of the mighty Porsche. Revenues climbed accordingly with the sales in the first nine months of 2025, hitting $2.2 billion up 49%. But there's still a lot to do in those nine months. Polestar recorded net losses of $1.6 billion, and in total, the company's share prices dropped by 95% since it floated on the NASDAQ in 2022. The job of making the company profitable and inspiring. Investor confidence now falls to a team led by Michael who took over as Polestar, CEO in the autumn of 2024. Michael arrived as no newcomer to the automotive sector in a career spanning more than three decades. He has held senior executive roles at Mitsubishi and Volkswagen. And was previously CEO of Opal, as well as the US zero emission transportation company, Nicola [00:07:00] and the Vietnamese Smart Electric vehicle Company. Vin Fast, a German national. Michael was educated at Hula Ossner Brook in Germany and Brunell University in London, and in 2015 completed a transformational leadership program at the Stanford University Graduate School of Business in Connecticut. Michael joins us from Polestar HQ in Gothenburg, Sweden. Michael, it's an honor to have you on the show. Welcome, and thank you so much for being with us.

Michael Lohscheller: Thanks for having me. Delighted to join the show today.

Robin Swithinbank: Well give us the elevator pitch. Michael, where does Polestar sit in the automotive landscape in your view, and how are you going to make it successful?

Michael Lohscheller: So first of all, I would say Polster is Europe's only EV startup. We are fully committed to sustainable mobility and we are very unique special brand. We focus on Scandinavian design, performance, and sustainability. We bring all these elements together because obviously people love beautiful cars, and I think Scandinavian design is very well known for this timeless [00:08:00] design language, but people want more, right?

if you drive a car, you want to have fun to drive this car, so performance is what a lot of people love. Then we are probably the only car brand in the world focusing so much on sustainability. Climate change is real. We all want to do our part to contribute and make sure emissions are coming down and putting all this together makes us a very unique and special brand.

And we also don't do cars for everybody, As you mentioned, some of our cars, like the pulled star four, doesn't have a rear window. Not everybody loves it, but a lot of people love it and that's why the car is very successful. And we are also a very young brand. we are nine years old now in terms of separate company.

we sold 60,000 cars last year, the best year ever. So we are very unique, special, young brand, not for everyone.

David Sadigh: That's an interesting,summary, Michael. both of you just mentioned, our last year results have been really outstanding, with those like, uh, 39% of top line [00:09:00] growth. but those losses that Rob noted in the intro, make for less comfortable reading. how do you rate postal performance, Michael, last year and what footing does that put into moving into 2026?

Michael Lohscheller: Yeah, so I see poles down a very good path because first of all, it's important that you grow the business, right? A young brand needs to grow. And I think we have proven that we can do this very successfully. We have, on the one hand, very exciting products, right? And they. Demonstrate that we compete in a very tough EV market exceptionally well in many markets around the world, in particular in Europe.

Additionally, we add a lot of more retail locations to the business. Something which is very important in the car business because you want to go to the dealer, ideally close to you who you trust, where you know the service is being provided, where you have questions, you can come with all your questions to your retailer of trust.

And then in terms of financial performance, which you quite rightly highlight. It is important to see that operationally we are making [00:10:00] progress. That was also very obvious in the first nine months of the year. Then we also have done some, impairment charges, which are part of the result you are quoting.

And of course it's important that we improve our operational performance step by step, right? And make sure that we come to a sustainable business model. But I think we have all the key elements in place. We have exciting products have. very good retailers. We are very well connected to Volvo and gli, our key business partners.

We are growing the business, we improve efficiency. So I see Polestar on the right path and needless to say, in a super, super competitive industry, a lot more to do, right? And the level of uncertainty is also not, going in the right direction. But I see the key elements of the business on a good path.

David Sadigh: Excellent. can you give us an idea, even a rough idea of how many vehicles per year Polestar, has to sell, to,reach this uh, breakeven.

Michael Lohscheller: Yeah, I always, say, without now linking it exactly to financial [00:11:00] indications for the future, I think a premium. Ev car brand like ours should be above a hundred thousand units per year, in that territory. I feel better than below that level if that makes sense. At the 

same 

time. back to what I said, we don't offer cars for everybody, right?

There will be people who say, well, that brand is actually not for me. Our uniqueness is also our selling point, right? But yes, we want to grow and I feel happier if we sell above a hundred thousand as a level, and then of course grow this. Also, I think talking about growth is important too. Grow step by step, right?

so I'm a passionate runner and one of the secrets of long distance running is don't pace too fast at the beginning or in the middle. It's a longer journey, and we are on the right path and we have the right pace. So let's continue.

Robin Swithinbank: The brand itself, of course, sits, in a much bigger picture. You've already mentioned the fact that, we're living in a world of [00:12:00] uncertainty and that doesn't look as if it's gonna change anytime soon, as you've also said. But behind the story of Polestar, behind the story of what might be happening in the world. It does occur to me that the mood music accompanying the EV story, at least in the West, has changed even in the past year or two. We've seen political and consumer attitudes towards this shift to electric, and they seem to have cooled somewhat. Would you agree with that, and if so, how much of a concern is that to you?

Michael Lohscheller: I would tend to agree that the growth people were expecting, I dunno. 3, 4, 5 years ago is different, right? But again, we have to also be more realistic. A couple of years ago, everybody was thinking like, okay, within three years everybody will drive electric. that cannot happen. Will not happen, is not happening.

But I see linear growth, especially here in. Europe, things are going in the right direction. Maybe not as we predict it, but there is growth. There is growth. And that's good to see and I think it will continue, right? because the future of mobility has to be without emissions. And if we remind ourselves that is the way we go.

Then [00:13:00] I'm convinced we will see growth. But yes, it's different than we expected. but that's why I think it's important to focus on what's right for the future. So no emissions, fun to drive for people, and then making sure that CO2 emissions are coming down. So I feel good. And of course for us as a smaller brand, we want to capture, share from other competitors too.

So it's not only all about the growth in the segment, but,I wouldn't mind taking a few customers away from other brands.

Robin Swithinbank: You are not the first CEO to say that on this podcast. Believe me, 

David Sadigh: That's exactly, my next question for Michael is like Paul Saw is a pure player, a leader in the EV space, a disruptor. Perhaps, you are up against other pure player, obviously like Tesla, but also legacy Mark, like BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, no Chinese brand like Shomi or Neo. what's your game plan to win Michael?

Michael Lohscheller: Yeah. Our game plan to win is we are a challenger. We are challenging the industry. We are challenging the competition, and we try out new things. Over and above [00:14:00] that we do beautiful cars. I give you an example. Polestar was the first car company in the world introducing Google Automotive in the car.

Everybody said, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't do that. We cannot do that. And Pollster said, yes, we do that. We do that, I think a couple of years later, many more people are doing it right. We want to challenge, we want to try out new things. we want to bring technology to the people, but in a way that people are excited about this, right?

And that's what we are looking for. And I'm sure we will have many more ideas on that. I repeat, we don't want to have cars for everybody. We want to have very special cars, very unique cars where people get excited and see like it's a beautiful car. It has special things in terms of performance, innovation, but also where you know you do something good for climate.

For sustainability, right? we increase recycled materials. We use renewable energies. We brought the CO2 emissions down of our cars by [00:15:00] 25% the last four years. People want to feel good. About the car. You spend a lot of time in a car every day. And I think it's important that you think yeah, it looks good, it feels good, and I feel good as a driver or as a co-driver, as a passenger because I have made the right decision.

And which other companies talking so much about sustainability, right? And that's our game plan.

Robin Swithinbank: it's interesting to hear you talk about sustainability so early in this conversation. It's one thing I wanted to come to a little bit later on, but I wonder if we should turn to it now. when I first encountered Polestar in 2019, maybe early 2020, uh, before the pandemic, certainly the brand sustainability story was front and center.

It was evident right from the start. I remember being. Press launch and I was presented with a Polestar branded reusable water bottle and stationary made of sustainable materials. And at the time that felt, it felt fairly disruptive, if I remember right.but it certainly felt like it was pitching in the right direction. Sort of felt like this was the path that we were all going to need to be on. but then suddenly over the [00:16:00] last year or two, the world seems less bothered by sustainability and certainly,I think in a growing number of cases, even resentful of it. we've seen brands moving away from using the word. Quite so much in their communications because it's not universally seen as a positive thing. The sentiment around it has cooled. So firstly, in your mind, do you recognize that? And if so, what's happened? And then how much are you now relying on your sustainability credentials to amplify your company's profile?

Michael Lohscheller: I would say, we see that as well and it motivates us to do even more, right? Because I think, yes, a couple of years ago, we all met at Fridays for future and everybody talked about that and we were all in this together. Now it's different, but it motivates us to run even faster and to focus even more on sustainability.

And it's interesting. So. Key customers in particular fleet Customers are encouraging us strongly to continue this path and say you are absolutely doing the right things. And we stand out even more than in the past because in the past a lot of [00:17:00] companies were talking about that. I would say we are probably the only one left.

In the discussion in terms of European legislation on the ban of ice engines, I think I was the only CEO, saying, look, this is going in the wrong direction, and my voice got heard. So I think we stand out even more. And then the other important thing for me is, has one of the youngest customers in the market.

and that's a very important asset because if the young people are following you, you have a future. You have a future, and pollster has a future because our customers are much younger than the average in the market. And why is that? It is because of sustainability. 

Robin Swithinbank: 

give us an idea what's, what'sthe average age of a Polestar customer compared to the average age of the market?

Michael Lohscheller: it's 10 years younger than the average. and that's a big difference. 

Robin Swithinbank: Huge difference. Yeah. So

the average age of a Polestar buyer is what?

Michael Lohscheller: 45.

Robin Swithinbank: 

Michael Lohscheller: in the market is 55. that's a big difference. In general, it sounds like old, right? Because new car buyers are in general, people with more money, if you look at used cars is different, but we have a much younger 

[00:18:00] customer profile and they absolutely believe in sustainability.

And the less people talk about, the more our message stands out and the more important it gets and the more it helps us. And I keep saying, we, we are doing the right things and let's accelerate now is the time to do even more on sustainability. And we have a project, for example, where we aim to produce a car without any emissions at all.

how cool is that? Let's like a moonshot project, right? 

Robin Swithinbank: It 

sounds cool. I just dunno how you do it. how in the

world do you do that?

Michael Lohscheller: It's very difficult, right? So you have to use different materials. You have to change logistics. You have to ask, we have 30 partners giving us feedback on what can we do, be done differently. We look at aluminum production, steel production, and we are challenging the status quo.

And I think that's exciting and that's also exciting for our people, right? People at Polestar are here for a reason. we have all worked in different car companies, but we have a special reason to work at Polestar. And I would say number one reason is sustainability

Robin Swithinbank: Is that what drew you to the company in the first place?

Michael Lohscheller: among other [00:19:00] things as well. I've written a book about sustainability, and I'm super passionate about this and it's a perfect match. And of course I do like mobility. I do like the car industry, but Polestaris absolutely a very unique brand, and 

sustainability was a key element.

Robin Swithinbank: I think we need a plug

for for the book. What's it called?

Michael Lohscheller: Happy climate. Happy life.

Robin Swithinbank: Happy Climate. Happy Life by Michael Los Ula. She's, uh, available at all good bookstores, I'm sure.

Michael Lohscheller: Yes.

David Sadigh: Robin mentioned you did a transformation course in Stanford. I did one too. And I remember one thing about the finance course, which was like, basically if you wanna understand finance, you just have to understand that finance is the opposite of romance. And that was the introduction course we got in Stanford about finance. Know when I'm listening to you. Michael, obviously I'm like fully in line about the sustainability approach and how important it's going to become. No better. The political shift we can see here and there, including in some of the big market around the world. Now, let's face it, when we look at customer right now, we can see that many of them are still reluctant or hesitant because of either the range [00:20:00] or, that remains obviously like a huge issue for our buyers.

But also for the charging infrastructure. so I would like to better understand what are you going to do to change the narrative and try to improve the perception of EV ownership?

Michael Lohscheller: Great point and happy to talk about that because I think there are three reasons which are super important for electrification of mobility. First one, price. EVs were very expensive in the past. I think prices are coming down and more and more offers are in the market and people accept that. And the difference between EVs and ICE are also coming smaller and smaller.

Second one is range. So people were concerned about range. How good is the range? And like the Polestar vehicles, we have. Six, 700 kilometers a Polestar three actually had a, have has a Guinness Book record going 924 kilometers, right? you talk big, big ranges here. And then the last one, David is of course the infrastructure.

I think also there it's improving, especially here in Europe. Do [00:21:00] you find areas where it's not perfect, especially in the big cities? I would say absolutely. it's not possible for everybody, but it's improving and that's why we have to continue to invest in charging infrastructure. Also, the cost.

Electrification, of energy is a key topic, but I think also there things are going in the right direction and it's improving, right? So I was driving through the entire Germany couple of weeks ago and it was so easy, Everything is on the app, you know exactly which charging station is free, you know the prices, but of course you have to experience it.

And I think the more people we get to test drive our cars, the higher the sales rates are.

Robin Swithinbank: We've talked a lot about, China on this podcast, there is of course increasing power behind the Chinese luxury brands over the domestic Chinese market. We've discussed that quite a bit, this podcast too.

And we've, we've also seen the rapid growth of the Chinese EV market. We did a whole episode devoted to that. We had this situation with you where Polestar is Chinese. Owned, but Swedish by design and operation. How does that sit with Chinese EV buyers?

Michael Lohscheller: [00:22:00] So first of all, Polestar is, actually listed in the US right? So the governance is in the uk. we have regular board meetings. We have a board of directors, and we have a very professional governance of the business, right? And you can buy Polestar shares every day. and then we have key shareholders as part of our board, right?

The uniqueness of Polestar is that, both Geely and Volvo are key shareholders and both are also very important for our business, right? So, Volvo is very helpful in terms of the dealer network. All our pollster retailers are Volvo retailers as well. They have separate showrooms, but they offer the service together.

Incredibly important for our customers because the first question you have as a customer is, where can I service a car in case something happens with a car? I think we have more than three and a half thousand locations around the world where you can service your Polestar car and all of this is part of the Volvo network.

And then with regard to Chinese technology, I think it's fair to say it's very good that we have access to this technology in this case of Geely because [00:23:00] Chinese automotive industry has made huge progress, in the last couple of years. I think I went to China again first time after a few years, in October of 24.

And I was really impressed what has happened in a short period of time. And I think that's, a big benefit for Polestar. And I think it's interesting because obviously overall we need to make sure that we are in a competitive market, right? And, usually competition improves offers for customers.

Robin Swithinbank: You talk about being in a competitive market. I, the research that I, uncovered in preparation for this conversation indicates that global car sales totaled around 91 million units last year, finally, surpassing the last pre COVID year of 2019. for Polestar, where are you seeing the most? Growth given you're in fewer than 30 markets at the moment.

and where are you looking to next to expand your network?

Michael Lohscheller: For Polestar, I would say at the moment, focus is clearly on Europe. 78% of our total sales are in Europe. We do exceptionally well in Europe because, Swedish brand, zero emission. Is a key topic in Europe. Then the growth of our [00:24:00] retailers. We go into new markets in Europe, like France, Eastern Europe, so I want to strengthen Europe, much more going forward.

We also, in other markets like Canada, Korea, Australia, which are very important markets for us, the US obviously is also an important market for us, but has a high level of uncertainty. So I see a clear focus on Europe for polster in the next couple of years.

David Sadigh: I have a bit of a, like a personal question, still related to,California. We know Steve Jobs was the founder of Apple, obviously, but, Tim Cook is the one who really managed to,grow significantly the shareholder value and the overall company. it's interesting to note that,You are like quite different, in term of profile from your predecessor, Thomas Gelt, who was the founder of the company, but also the designer and the brand guy. your background is more in management and finance. what do you bring in terms of skillset, for this new chapter at Polestar?

Michael Lohscheller: I think I bring common sense. Common sense in the way, okay, we have very exciting cars and it's great that this [00:25:00] unique brand was established in the way it was established. I think big success, right? great cars, but now it's important to make sure that we connect the dots, meaning. More retailers, platform strategy, focus on key markets in Europe and work through this with all the experience, all the learnings, and at the same time making sure that Polestar stays very unique.

Again, I repeat myself. We are not a brand for everyone. We are very unique. We are very special and connecting all these dots, in an environment which is very competitive, which is very uncertain. I think that's, that, that's the way to go. It sounds easy and sometimes it is, but of course I have also days when I think oh, this is not easy.

But I think common sense is I like this. I bring common sense to a company.

Robin Swithinbank: It doesn't sound easy at 

David Sadigh: yeah, exactly. And what are the biggest obstacles,in your way, for the months slash years ahead?

Michael Lohscheller: I think, first important when you lay out a new plan, make sure it's easy. Everybody understands it. Your own people, your [00:26:00] partners, and then I think it's important that you execute, continuously, right? Sometimes in, in management there is a danger. Okay, something new happens. let's react and do something.

I'm saying, okay, once you have momentum, and we clearly have momentum, so Polestar grew by 34%. We sold more than 60,000 cars. We had the best year in the history of the company. So I would say first thing is don't change anything.

Hold the course Don't go faster. Don't go slower. Just continue. a bit like, running, right?

Once you have the right pace, don't change anything. And that sometimes is not easy because then. People say, change this, do that, go on that. So hold the course and of course, continue the good things, right? I want to bring more innovation to Polestar, right? Making sure that we become even a stronger premium brand, but continue with more retailers.

Focus on Europe, right? Platform strategy, efficiency, but hold the course, and keep the momentum that's most important.

Robin Swithinbank: One of the things that I think [00:27:00] you've changed, if I've understood this correctly since you arrived, is to broaden the sales platform. So I think originally Polestar was direct consumer, very internet based, backed up by a network of, in more showrooms you've returned to this traditional bricks and mortar model, certainly more so than it was there before. And Polestar has always played on the freedom it has. there's no legacy holding you back. You are, you're in many ways, you're the upstart doing things in new ways, as you've alluded to in a sense. So why switch to the old way of selling cars? I know you convinced that is the way from this point.

That is the path that you're on now. Don't change it.

Michael Lohscheller: Yeah, because I believe that, Buying a car or leasing, financing a car is an important decision, right? And you want to experience a car, you want to go to somebody who is competent, who can explain the car, where you can test drive it, where you look at an offer, maybe you come back a week later, right?

I think, buying financing a car has a lot to do with trust and, our retailers can do it much better than we can do it. And the internet can also. Not do it so well, right? Yes, there are people [00:28:00] who like online and that's good and we offer that, but I'm a big believer like, buying financing a car has a lot to do with trust that you feel good and that you know where to go.

And the results speak a clear language. Since we have started this direction in terms of focusing on retailers and high performing retailers, so not so many, right? This works. I give you an example. In the UK I think we have now. 12 retailers. that doesn't sound like a really big number for the size of the country, but they do exceptionally well.

They're high performing. They do the entire business. They do new cars, they do service. They use cars. They want to grow. Then of course, it's interesting business for them, right? It's interesting business for us and this works, and that was a big change, which proved to be very successful.

Robin Swithinbank: It's, it's real, it's tangible, it's human, which are three words that we keep coming back to in this series of the podcast. and I suppose that's the same, isn't it? When you put your hands on a steering wheel,you experience something, you feel something real, you feel something tangible, and it becomes a human, interaction, whereas, [00:29:00] subscribing to a car, purely through the internet in that direct consumer model is,is the, almost the opposite of those things. Do you think that by switching to this model, you're going to get from 60 to a hundred thousand? Is that the, the difference? is that gonna make the change for you?

Michael Lohscheller: Yes, absolutely. So more retailers and again, very high performing retailers. And then of course, also the product portfolio, which we are working on going forward. But those are the two main reasons for growth. And,we are laser focused on that.

Robin Swithinbank: You, well, you've mentioned the UK a few times, including in your, previous answer. It's now the, it's now your largest market accounting for 28% of your sales. the uk as I understand it, I am a, I'm from the uk, it's addicted to German cars in your price bracket. What is it about Polestar that has swayed my fellow Countrymen UK buyers?

And if you'll forgive what might sound like a domestic bias, so you modeling other markets around what we're doing here in the uk.

Michael Lohscheller: actually it's true. UK is our best market. It's performing really well. I think we have found the right balance between number of retailers, obviously positioning in the market, strengthening the brand. we do also many activities. many [00:30:00] events. We have fantastic management and yes, it is true.

We want to. Copy it in a way to other markets. And of course every European market is different, right? UK is different to Germany. German customers are very loyal. They love their German premium brands, right? And usually they don't wanna change the next couple of 50 years, right? And then they change again.

But no, every market is different. But UK is a role model for us. Absolutely.

Robin Swithinbank: Oh, I'm pleased to hear that we're a role model for somebody in some area. That's not very nice to hear. It doesn't happen so much these days.

David Sadigh: regarding the eu, we know that the EU doesn't particularly like cars produced in China, slapping a nearly 29% tariff on your imports. how much is that limiting your growth in Europe and what are you going to do about it?

Michael Lohscheller: Good question and good point. So, first of all, I think, duties, tariffs, in these days seems like it's a big discussion, right? They happen, then they get changed and so on. But it never eliminates the real topic. And that's competitiveness, right? So yes, you [00:31:00] can put things on, on, on cars and duties and so on, but at the end of the day, every industry needs to compete.

And I am, I keep saying that the European car industry needs to compete with everybody in the world and shouldn't rely on duties if they go up and down and so on. that's not the root cause. The real topic is that the Chinese automotive industry became very competitive. And I think it would be good in the spirit for the consumers at the European industry, especially the German one, is following this right, and duties are not a solution.

And also make the car more expensive for consumers, right? So who wants that? So I think that's not a solution and therefore, it's not good At the same time. We have to live with it and we have to manage with that, right? And therefore we find solutions, for example, for our US market. We produce locally in the US but we also bring now cars from South Korea.

Into the US because the tariffs are different than if you import cars from China. So we try to find solutions in terms of the [00:32:00] various manufacturing sites and that works, but I don't think is the best solution in the long term for consumers. And as you can imagine, I'm not a big fan of all these tariffs and duties and changes.

but we have good solutions in terms of, manufacturing sites and always find optimal solutions.

Robin Swithinbank: Sales of Polestar in the US fell away last year. What'd you put that down to? Is it down to the tariffs and all the uncertainty created around it, or is it much more to do with the cultural change? president Trump, of course, is very keen to make Americans by American, with a sort of isolationist America first policy.

Is that going to affect car makers from Europe such as Polestar?

Michael Lohscheller: Yeah, for the US it's very clear. Like we produce a Polestar three and a Volvo plant in Charleston. And that's a good setup, right? So a car being produced in the US for the US market, and that works well, right? And in addition now we bring a Polestar four from South Korea into the US also. That is a good business equation because tariffs are then different.

yeah. And that's how we steer and maneuver through, through these times.

Robin Swithinbank: But it's still marketed as a Swedish car, [00:33:00] presumably, even if it is made in Charleston.

Michael Lohscheller: Yes, absolutely. And that's important in times of high uncertainty. People want to know precisely what your brand is all about, right? Because 

that's what matters. And I think there we absolutely stand out, right? there are so many car brands around the world, but the uniqueness of Polestar is very visible to everybody, right?

Robin Swithinbank: Michael, how would you describe your approach to your role as CEO and the task you have been set by the company's owners?

Michael Lohscheller: Yeah, great point. I think many things come to this. On the one hand it's okay, keep the course and do what's right for the business. But of course you have to be. Extremely flexible and agile because things change. And then another element I would say, always focus on what your customers want, right?

Be close to them. I spend a lot of time visiting, dealers. I meet customers because. If these things change, then you also need to make changes on your side, right? So I think it's always very important to be as [00:34:00] close to normal customers. Normal people listen to what's happening, what is changing, and then with common sense steer through this.

And the other thing, which is very exciting about Polestar is, listen to your people. all the Polestar employees, they came for a reason. We are not working for a normal car company, and that's exciting and we need to keep this and we don't want to copy other companies. We want to be different.

Yeah. And bringing all this together is exciting and sometimes not easy, but that's why I'm here for and to be honest, I love it. I love it.

Robin Swithinbank: My, my last question if I may, Michael, David and I have got into the habit of inviting our guests to finish on a high, which may be in fact be the answer to a lot to David's question, but, we're looking for reasons to be cheerful. Given the world is in such a model right now, what do you see in our near future that gives you reasons to be optimistic?

Michael Lohscheller: To be honest, I'm very optimistic because I feel when you do the right things sooner or later, that will work and be very successful, [00:35:00] right? And yes, maybe electrification, everybody says, ah, the growth is not as we thought a few years ago, but we are doing the right things for the future, right? We are offering mobility without emissions.

This will be the future. People will love it, will get excited and then everything will come right. So I think, good direction. Keep doing it. It's like running a marathon. It's not a sprint. And let me tell you, pollster will reach the finish stronger than ever. And that's why I'm optimistic. And do you have moments where it is not so good?

Absolutely. But the finish is clear and I'm super excited and I'm optimistic. We will reach the finish line.

Robin Swithinbank: we are. So, it's not for everybody. Common sense approach. And it's a marathon, not a sprint. We could have got this conversation done in 30 seconds, couldn't we?

Michael Lohscheller: Absolutely. But I loved it. I enjoyed it.

Robin Swithinbank: It's been a joy. Michael, thank you so much for joining us

and, for finishing the conversation in such an

upbeat way. 

 we'll see you again no doubt. Thanks for coming on the Luxury Society Podcast. I.

Michael Lohscheller: Thanks for having me. Thank you so much. 

David Sadigh: Thank you, Michael. 

Robin Swithinbank: [00:36:00] Okay, we move on. And in doing so, we return to one of our favorite subjects here on the Luxury Society Podcast, and that is of course, ai. And I'm pleased to say we're also returning to one of our favorite guests, Mr.

Pablo Marron, digital Luxury Group, board member and DGS managing partner, China Pablo, welcome back. How are you, sir?

Pablo Mauron: Hey Robin. thanks for having me. Great. Pleasure, as usual. I'm great. Thank you.

Robin Swithinbank: Good stuff. Good to see you, right. Since you were last on the podcast, AI's advance well, it's continue to dominate conversations, whether on this podcast in Davos at the World Economic Forum, or indeed just around my kitchen table. My kids love a good chat about ai. What shifts have you observed in that time over the past few months? 

Pablo Mauron: the real shift, as you said, it's not about the fact that it's everywhere. It's been everywhere for a long time. I, Ithink that really transpires now. and Davos was the perfect example of that, is that AI is no longer a technology conversation, it's a leadership one. it starts now to really dive into like, how to go further.

Just looking beyond automation and efficiency to augmentation. [00:37:00] looking at how. What are gonna be the tangible applications. And so we're really entering the era of applied ai, where everybody realized that, there are a lot of parameters, that are gonna play a massive role. In a nutshell, what we're looking at is that we are living in a world where there is like overflow of data, but that data without intelligence is noise.

and this is really what starts now in, in our point of view to transpire from all those conversations in regards to. How to extract real intelligence out of that,and transform that into applications and tangible solutions.

Robin Swithinbank: You've compelled in your report on AI, and that's one of the reasons why we've brought you on today. give us a little bit of an idea of what that report's about and what the brief was behind it.

Pablo Mauron: Well, we had the opportunity to do that with our longtime, Valuable and trusted partner Europe as star. Um, in a nutshell, we served it like a little bit over 250 respondents, mostly C-suite senior executives, in, in, in the luxury industry. and the idea was really to. like balance all [00:38:00] the noise and the hype with a very tangible, snapshot on where does the industry stand from an adoption point of view.

What are the obstacles and what are the strategic opportunities that they're looking at? I guess we'll talk further on the, in that podcast about it. but what we see is that. There is no more caution around it. Everybody wants ai. Everybody sees the opportunities, but at the same time, the industry is facing significant roadblocks and challenges that are significantly slowing down the adoption.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, I spoke with your colleague, Dominic Baldwin Weir about AI on last week's episode, and he mentioned that AI adoption rates in luxury businesses have so far been slow. You mentioned some of these obstacles and in your report you talk about this gap between urgency and adoption, and you've called for a reality check. Does the luxury industry have an AI problem? 

Pablo Mauron: well, indeed what the report shows is that over 70% of the respondents were like. Talking about the urgency of adopting ai, but everybody's kind ofstuck in an [00:39:00] experimentation gap. we're playing with it. but there is a very big gap from actually turning that into fully integrated and structured and solid and steady solutions.

and I think that's when it comes to the luxury industry, this is where that feeling shifted a bit from being cautious at first. Being a bit frustrated now, because it takes time. We're trying things. It doesn't work. generic tools, again, don't have the level of accuracy and nuances that, that the industry need.

it's not about finding another dashboard. It's not about adding even more to the already kind of data exhaust situation in which we are. and that's a bit the challenge right now. We see that the wheel is there. But the solutions are not there yet. and I say just yet, because again, with MCP and with other developments, we believe that this is gonna radically change.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, I guess it's quite easy to get bamboozled by all of this, isn't it? And a lot of execs listening to this podcast might say, well, look, I'm using Chat GBT, I'm using Claude and Gemini and Microsoft Copilot. I'm already writing emails and [00:40:00] processing spreadsheets more efficiently. What else? What else do you want from me? What do you say to these guys?

Pablo Mauron: the thing is that what we're talking about in that context is a commodity. generic KI pretty much provides you with an incredibly fast and convenient access to publicly available information. Your competitors have those information too. Like what you are getting from GPT as it is doesn't give you a competitive advantage.

Everybody benefit from it the same way. So we're going back again to that importance of the context. All those nuances in the luxury industry that allow you to better understand consumers from distinguishing the durability from controversy that is not reflected in purely social media buzz. Let's say.

one of the big thing is that. Confident answers that obviously appear from the generic LMS does not mean they're accurate and that's not intelligence in that context. This is just a commodity. You are getting a faster access to public data that everybody has. it's a gain of efficiency, but it really stops there and this [00:41:00] is why we're just scratching the surface on, on how we can actually benefit from that.

Robin Swithinbank: One of the other things you talk about in the, in the report, and please help a Luddite out here, is the fragmentation problem. So what is this? If I'm a luxury business, how does it apply to me? I.

Pablo Mauron: Well, data sits in silos, operational silos, geographical silos. you got an agency that has social media data. You've got a media, a partner that has media data. You've got an e-commerce partner that has e-commerce data. regulation like, GDPR and PIPL makes your data sit on different type of infrastructure and so.

There is a lot of data everywhere. This has been fully acknowledged now, our strategic this is. but you're looking at different formats, different systems, rarely connected.A CEO asks a question, why am I losing share in that market? It takes six weeks to formulate an answer, and by then the market moved on, especially in the times we're living today.

And so there is that data exhaust, but there is no real intelligence [00:42:00] because of that fragmentation issue.

Robin Swithinbank: Yes. Yeah. You've also suggested that AI can help luxury brands see into their blind spots. So what are those blind spots and how can AI help brands see into them? 

Pablo Mauron: the industry is going through transformative shifts from a consumer, behavior point of view, the rise of independent brands, the search demand evolving,and so there are a lot of. Phenomenon that are already acknowledge as being strategic, but are really hard to measure, to quantify, and more importantly, to reconciliate and correlate with the reality of a brand, secondary market value, as a leading indicator of your brand health.

identifying the gray market leak, leakage, and the cannibalization as a way to assess your pricing strategy. the search demand by market has a real illustration of spontaneous desire. Other social media buzz that can be orchestrated and shaped In a nutshell, we're experiencing times where there is less growth and those signals cannot be missed, and we believe that [00:43:00] those signals, specifically those blind spots, are the ones that are gonna shape the trajectory of luxury brands in the next two, three years.

Robin Swithinbank: I wanted to pick up on something that appears, uh, in, in this report, and this is this term, MCP. Uh, just explain for us quickly what that stands for and why luxury executives should be ready to add it to their vocabulary.

Pablo Mauron: we look at MCP as a revolution, and, and, and I'm really like careful with the word I use, but this is how we look at it. this is. Incredibly disruptive. and this is gonna be such a central component on how the AI landscape is gonna evolve. So in a nutshell, MCP stands for model context protocol.

Uh, think of it as like simply something that would allow your AI models. We're not talking about new solution. We're not talking about a new tool. Your existing AI solution to securely connect to external real business systems data and tool. And so it's not just. It's not just data exchange, it's act with context.

This what really [00:44:00] allows AI to evolve from what is right now pretty much a smart chat, to really becoming a decision partners that that allow models to understand your reality, your KPIs, your customers, your constraints. Not just the generic internet knowledge. And, and, and we believe that for luxury executives, context is everything.

And, and MCP is really about bringing those nuances, uh, preserving the brand logic, the strategic intent when AI is involved, that that is obviously non-negotiable, uh, in the luxury industry.

Robin Swithinbank: what advantages are luxury brands going to get from integrating MCPs?

Pablo Mauron: So again, the generic answer is benefiting from additional data, tools and context. Now, in order to answer that question more specifically, I can tell you about our luxury I-Q-M-C-P. What? What's our luxury? I-Q-M-C-P. Brings, as a value proposition is decades of proprietary data that were aggregated as a virtue of all [00:45:00] the other activities that DLG has done in the market for years and years.

Quantitatively speaking, what we're talking about, 1.4 billion data points that have been tracked across 185 brands, 64 markets. We talk about surge demand, we talk about social performance, we talk about. Advertising creatives and planning analysis. We're talking about secondary markets, we're talking about gray markets.

and this is not just scrape data, right? This is data that has been, unified harmonized with human quality control. and this is where we start to look at something that we believe offers a strategic value proposition over the generic LLM, it's knowledge that your competitors literally.

Channel and then it turns your ai, um, that you already use in a luxury market. Experts.

Robin Swithinbank: Nonetheless, there will still be some reluctance, I'm sure on the part of, some luxury business executives. it's a very conservative industry as we know. But let's ask the question the other way round, therefore, and if [00:46:00] you decline to integrate MCPS into your business, what will the disadvantages be?

Will you get left behind?

Pablo Mauron: Well, a, as we said, like first off, we're living in an environment where there is less growth. every decision matters more, and those decisions have to be timely. the world as we know it is more unpredictable than ever. You cannot afford, those four to six weeks to understand a market shift.

And so brand with real intelligence will continue to compound and accumulate on that advantage. While brands that are just like scaling assumptions will continue to get surprised. and we know very well that now are times where we're getting so surprised. And so you cannot operate in a context where the market will test your assumptions for you.

Robin Swithinbank: Interesting. let's say I'm a luxury brand senior exec. I've been listening to this and I'm thinking, okay, I can see I need ai, I need an MCP. But, frankly, I have no idea where to start. I'm assuming you guys are on hand to help here.

What would you prescribe?

Pablo Mauron: Well, that echoes back to what we've seen in the reports, right? we [00:47:00] talked about data fragmentation. The other big issue is simply the operational challenges linked to the onboarding and the implementation of AI initiatives. There are multiple barriers at the entry when it comes to.

Like selecting a new tool, onboarding on it, training, and et cetera. The first advantage with MCP is that it's literally plug and play, so you connect to the luxury IQ MCP. You don't need to learn about a new tool. You don't need technical integration. You don't need data analyst. You connect your LLM to our luxury I-Q-M-C-P and you start to ask questions through your LLM exactly as you used to, and you don't know how to use it.

It'll tell you. You don't know what type of data is available, it'll tell you. And so in that context, we progressively start to onboard, brand and partners. We're not looking for volumes at this stage. We're really looking for brands that are ready to operate differently. the MCP asis already like.

Fascinating, Pablo. I think, you've done an incredible job there of explaining something which, to me at least is very complicated. So according to this pundit panel of one, you are the Luxury Society Podcast, MVP on cps. [00:48:00] Look, Had that one locked and loaded. Uh,Thanks so much for coming on and explaining all that to us.

Robin Swithinbank: great to see you as always.

Pablo Mauron: Thank you, Robin. Thank you. 

Speaker: Thank you for listening to the Luxury Society Podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode and would like to hear more, don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to go deeper into any of these topics, check out luxury society.com where you'll find stories, insights, and profiles that unpack what's going on in the world of luxury.

Right now, I've been your host, Robin Swen Bank, and this has been The Luxury Society Podcast available on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.