Shooting for the Moon: Davide Cerrato on rebooting Bremont

In this episode of The Luxury Society Podcast, Robin Swithinbank and David Sadigh, Founder and CEO of DLG, are joined by Davide Cerrato, CEO of Bremont Watch Company, to examine one of the most scrutinised brand turnarounds in contemporary watchmaking.

Three years in, Cerrato reflects on the decisions that defined his tenure: cutting the collection from 200 references to fewer than 100, overhauling the brand identity, scrapping a long-anticipated in-house movement and navigating a fierce backlash from loyalists. He also reveals the story behind Bremont's most ambitious project yet, sending a watch to the surface of the moon as part of Astro Lab's Gryphon Mission, and explains why consistently over-delivering on value at every price point remains his most non-negotiable commitment.

Tune in for:

• How Bremont cut complexity, rebuilt confidence and is recording growth in one of watchmaking's most difficult markets
• Why the $2,500 to $4,000 price segment is as strategically important today as it was when Cerrato launched Tudor's Black Bay
• What the moon mission reveals about Bremont's ambition and the next chapter of its story

Brought to you by DLG, in partnership with The 1916 Company.

The 1916 Company is reshaping the world of collectible watches and fine jewelry, uniting a global community through trusted expertise, editorial excellence, and client-first experiences. With more than 20 boutiques and Collector’s Lounges worldwide, the company bridges new and pre-owned markets across collectible watches, fine jewelry, and designer handbags – supported by dedicated advisors, expert watchmakers, and seasoned journalists. As majority investor in independent manufacture De Bethune, The 1916 Company holds a singular position at the intersection of retail, editorial, and community.

www.the1916company.com

Produced by Juliet Fallowfield, Fallow, Field & Mason 2026 

Transcript

​[00:00:00] 

Davide Cerrato:  the picture is,challenging as I think it is for, every watch brand around the world. If they say differently, they're cheating.  we are fighting hard. And I think, the outcome is that, our fiscal year will close in June and we'll close a little bit, above last year, we are still, absolutely,going for that objective of bringing manufacturing back in UK even more than before, because now we are doing it the right way. We are doing this in a sustainable way. it was for sure a difficult period, I have a very tough skin. I got a lot of people that,in this three years then came back to me and said, at the beginning I was also a little bit confused by all this noise. But,now seeing what you're doing, guys, I think it was needed.

 we are doing everything we can to over deliver value in all our watches.

That's our, contract of trust with our customer.

Speaker 9: This episode of The Luxury Society Podcast is brought to you by The [00:01:00] 1916 Company. What started as a family jeweler in Philadelphia in 1916 has grown into a highly regarded international business. Today, The 1916 Company has 25 locations across the United States, Asia, and Switzerland, as well as a powerful e-commerce site.

Now recognized as an authorized retailer of the world's finest watches and jewelry and a global leader in pre-owned, it continues a conversation about how collectors buy, sell, and trade that's been going since 1916. Find them at the1916company.com.

Robin Swithinbank: Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Luxury Society podcast, brought to you by Digital Luxury Group. I'm your host, Robin Swithinbank

David Sadigh: And I'm your co-host, David Seddiqi

Robin Swithinbank: David, it's good to have you back in the room. As regular listeners will know, I flew a solo mission last week while you went,you went under the surgeon's knife to fix up a busted shoulder. Firstly, well, we missed you, but secondly, how are you? What have you done?

David Sadigh: like a little, accident. My, [00:02:00] son on the bike, me on a scooter going a bit too fast and, sadly, uh, shoulder got, quite injured. But,you know, back and, ready to conquer

Robin Swithinbank: Well, it's good to have you back and I'm sorry to, to see you're, looking a little bit, limp-shouldered there. Hope you get well soon. Well, in your absence, I had a fascinating conversation with Guido Terreni of Parmigiani. I know you've listened to the episode. he is of course, one of lu- the luxury sector's brightest minds.

I was interested to see that on dropping that episode, Benjamin Dubuc? Do you pronounce it Dubuc or Dubuts? I don't know. One of your colleagues at DLG, how do you pronounce his name? Dubuc. Benjamin sent me some extraordinary Luxury IQ data showing that Parmigiani is leading the pack, among high-end watch brands in growth demand.

I, I'm not entirely sure what all that means. Luxury IQ, growth demand, can you unpack that a little bit for me?

David Sadigh: Yeah, as always, we are, like, trying to, measure brand desirability and, indeed, according to the research, and obviously you cannot fully compare Parmigiani to Patek Philippe or, or Audemars Piguet because in term of volume, those are, like, two different,type of categories. but i-i-indeed, Parmigiani since 2021, the, the overall demand for the brand has been growing, [00:03:00] in a consistent,manner.

and this is probably, like, the reflect also of, like, some extremely good product, overall brand positioning, and, yeah, the overall brand narrative that, seems to be, working quite effectively

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah, very effectively. Benjamin noted that getting the message out without making too much noise isn't a positioning statement, it's a result. So Guido appears to,be achieving some significant success there, while, not following the usual playbook of big brand ambassadors and huge launch events and so on and so forth.

His story of private luxury that he told us was really interesting and, appears to be taking hold with his, with his end client. Anyway, ice front, there's been quite a bit of news in the world of watch and jewelry exhibitions this past week. First, we had that pretty much out of the blue statement, or announcement that Baselworld was going to return i- as I think it's pronounced Basilea or maybe Basilea.

Again, I'm not really sure. hosting responsibilities, for the event next April will be split between Baselworld's and Art Basel's organizers, MCH Group and Informa Markets. The latter's been described as the world's [00:04:00] leading B2B network in the jewelry sector and organizer of Jewelry & Gem World Hong Kong.

What do you make of all of that?

David Sadigh: Yeah, it's interesting to see MCH group being back into the game, huh, because indeed, they-- If you remember following the, the end of Baselworld, they tried to relaunch, in the early days some, different Baselworld-related format and, lots of different things were tried. And obviously, in the meantime, I think, uh, Art Basel, confirmed its leadership on the art scene.

They, acquired several other fair, including, what now is like, Art Basel Paris. but seeing them, back into the jewelry and watch game with a positioning that seems to be much broader and quite different from, Watches and Wonder, I think is a good signal for the industry and probably good for Switzerland as well

Robin Swithinbank: Good for the industry? Yes, I suppose it probably is. I mean, they, they are expecting, according to their initial forecast, that they will have 400 brands attending at for the first event next year, which, strikes me as very ambitious. I think they had around 500 at the last of the Baselworld events that took place in 2019.

Of course, a lot of those were watch brands that have now gone to Watches and Wonders. [00:05:00] When the announcement was made, there was a sort of a, a, a suggestion in the air that, maybe this was where we might see Swatch Group suddenly pop its head above the parapet again for the first time since, well, they were last at a major show in 2018.

and you have to imagine that Basilia, Basilia, I'm not sure whether it's a hard or a soft S, will, will be flirting heavily with the Hayek family to convince them to part with the tens of millions of Swiss francs, that it's gonna require to exhibit, and take, take up residence in next year's launch edition.

But,I, we of course haven't heard from Swatch Group, and I, I, I would be very surprised if they were to do a bit of a vault fast and turn up at a major watch event. But, stranger things have happened, right?

David Sadigh: Yeah, my gut feeling, I don't have any insider information on the MCH ambition, but, uh, based on their, on their communication, it seems that this is something much more like fragmented, smaller players and so on. I'm not expecting to see at least the overall or brands from Swatch Group exhibiting.

 I'm not sure that, this is going to be really a watch and jewelry show, maybe more a jewelry and a gemstone show

Robin Swithinbank: Yes, that's very much the, the language that they've used so far. That's the, the ordering of the words. They've described it as a jewelry and watch fair with a heavy emphasis on gemstones, so I think you're probably [00:06:00] right. we do of course know that, the House of Brands, as Georges Kern has called his trio of watch businesses, that's Breitling, Universal Genève, and Galet, will not be there.

They came out, just last week, with the news that they will be heading to Geneva next April as part of an expanded Watches & Wonders lineup, which is no real surprise. Georges Kern has been flirting with, Watches & Wonders for a number of years, and I think it had been expected that Breitling would appear there a couple of years ago.

A deal was pretty much done, but I think it fell apart at the last minute, and Georges was, very much in evidence at last year's, or this year's, I should say, this year's event. And, so to see, the House of Brands appear at what is now by far the most significant event in the watch calendar is, is no real surprise.

I think, that's good news for the industry, good news for the event, and indeed good news for those House of Brands, uh, House of Brands brands.

David Sadigh: so Robin, last year Audemars Piguet, decided to come back to Watches & Wonder. Now the house of brands with like, Breitling, Universal Genève, and Galet. Is Richard Mille next, 2027?

Robin Swithinbank: So many of our guests, when we ask them a question about the future say, "I don't have a crystal ball." Well, guess what? I don't have a crystal [00:07:00] ball. I don't think so. I can't see it happening. There's been-- I, I know the guys at Richard Mille relatively well, and when I speak to them, there is no suggestion that they're about to revise their budgets and, invest the millions of Swiss francs every year in attending a watch fair.

they have low volumes. They know their customer base extremely well. they interact and engage with them at a very one-to-one level, and that's proved extremely effective for them. The business continues to grow at pace. Why would they come back? They would come back, I suppose, because as a company that over the past 25 years has stood on the shoulders of giants, perhaps there's some responsibility that it bears to do the same for those companies that come in its wake.

But, I don't see that happening at the moment, unfortunately. I'd love to see them back, but I don't think it'll happen. I was interested actually that Basilia is the Latin name for the Swiss city of Basel, but it's also the name of a mythical island in Northern Europe in Greco-Roman geography. So let's see if Basilia can plant an IRL flag in the watch and jewelry map.

Anyway, one other thing I wanted to talk to you about, David, is, well, your, your sort of half namesake, Davide Cerrato of the Bremont Watch Company is on the podcast this week, and, I interviewed him, while you were, convalescing. you know his story a bit, so what are your [00:08:00] impressions of his first three years at the company?

David Sadigh: I think first of all, Davide is a very interesting and influential character in this industry. people, tend to forget that, together with, Philippe Berelli back in the days, those were like, the people who have been like, able to, I think, accelerate the development of Tudor and being able, obviously, with,Rolex endorsement, but being able to, develop their own booths for Tudor separated from Rolex at Baselworld, and, being able really to ship like, distinctive models and really try to build the Tudor brand.

So I, I think,Davide as a, as a kind of,special type of-- differentiated type of profile from the typical, industry leader, I think is, someone that comes also from a, a good creative and designer, type of background and, able to, express, and infuse ideas and develop brand positioning and create products that are highly differentiating.

So my guess is that, bringing an Italian with the profile of Davide to, like the pinnacle of British watchmaking, excellence, is probably like, something kind of complicated and challenging, [00:09:00] but, but obviously if at some point it works, this can, bring something quite, quite exciting

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah. Can the British psyche cope with the fact that we need an Italian to come and rescue our, what at that point was our number one, watch brand, certainly in terms of revenues. Christopher Ward has since overtaken it. But,it was a, it was a shock. It was definitely a shock when he was appointed.

I've known Davide a number of years and saw his work at Tudor, saw his work at Montblanc, and he was briefly at HYT as well. And when he was appointed, it, it did come out of left field. There w- there's no doubt about that. but, he and Bill Ackman, the, the activist investor who has taken what we understand to be around about a 70% stake in the business now, they've, formed a pretty powerful partnership, and there are clear signs that the business, after three years of what Davide describes in, in the interview as a transformation phase, have been, has been pretty effective.

the business is growing. it's a very different sort of business to the one that it was. It is not this romantic notion of a British watch manufacturer, which is what the founders, Nick and Giles English, had always aimed for and had started, they'd started to, to get to the point where they were manufacturing some components and, they had a movement of their own, which has since been scrapped.

So there [00:10:00] was some sort of sadness, I think, from a British perspective, and I think that's what, garnered a lot of the opprobrium that came Davide's way in the immediate aftermath of the brand relaunch and the collection revamp. but anyway, a-an interesting story and, Davide has a, a lot to say about it, so we should probably hand over the microphone to him.

I spoke to him last week. here's how we got on 

Speaker: So this week on The Luxury Society Podcast, I'm very pleased to be in the company of Davide Cerrato, chief executive and creative director of the British watchmaker Bremont. Davide is Italian by birth and came into the watch industry in the mid-2000s via Panerai, the Florentine watchmaker owned by the Richemont group.

In 2007, he left the group to join Rolex, where he was installed as head of marketing, design, and product development at Rolex's sister watchmaker, Tudor, at the time a brand in recession. Tudor had withdrawn from some of the world's major markets, including the US, but would enjoy a meteoric return to form with the introduction of Davide's Black Bay, a neo-vintage style dive and sports watch [00:11:00] inspired by Tudor submariner designs of the mid-20th century.

The Black Bay was an international super hit and would catalyze Tudor's revival, transforming it into one of Switzerland's top 20 watch companies in its own right. Then in 2015, Davide was recruited back into Richemont and to Montblanc, where he would become the managing director of the German company's Swiss watchmaking division.

A five-year stint there was followed by two years as the chief executive of the independent watchmaker HYT, before in 2023, he was announced as the new chief executive of Bremont. At the time, Bremont was in a state of flux. New investment and the announcement that US activist investor Bill Ackman had taken a stake in the business spelled change for a company founded in the mid-2000s by the entrepreneurial brothers Nick and Giles English.

They would step aside as Bremont's new management swept away a bold but costly manufacturing program, leaving Davide to rework the branding and restructure the collection.

Change came fast, and the critical [00:12:00] response was not always positive. Davide would come under fire from brand loyalists struggling with the shift, but throughout he maintained his position that if Bremont was going to compete on the global stage, it needed to balance its P&L and adopt a more cosmopolitan approach.

Three years on, Davide joins me now to discuss all of this. Davide, good to have you with us. How are you on this fine English summer day?

Davide Cerrato: Fantastic. I'm very happy that, Britain is turning into Italy, global warming, and, I feel very at ease and, yeah. Great to be with you today and with Luxury Society Podcast.

Robin Swithinbank: Well, it's great to have you with us. Thank you. Let's get into it. I wanna think a little bit initially about, the, the backdrop to this conversation. You are in watchmaking and there's no hiding from the fact that it's been a challenging season for luxury watchmakers with the Swiss reporting declining exports for the past couple of years, 2026 figures are down several percentage points, year on year to the end of May. Breno is of course, allied to Swiss watchmaking, and yet as a British company, it's, it's apart too. So what's the picture like for you [00:13:00] today in the here and now?

So the picture is,challenging as I think it is for, every watch brand around the world. If they say differently, they're cheating. So,point.

Davide Cerrato: it is, unusually long,period down, we were using the good old times to have a crisis every seven years and then shorten up to 6, 5, 4, and then we said, perhaps is this three, whatever.

But, there was always a kind of a six month down, six month up, cycle. And now we are, in more than 18 months of,difficult downturn. probably with a,a number of international event that definitely have,every time that we were saying perhaps here we are, there are good news, there is hope.

Boom. something else.

Robin Swithinbank: It's just unpredictable, isn't it? And

this is the, the situation that everybody's facing, as you say. But for

Bre, more specifically, what's the 

Davide Cerrato: for us, re listen, we are, still small. We are agile. We are full of passion and energy, and we are fighting hard. And [00:14:00] I think, the outcome is that, our fiscal year will close in June and we'll close a little bit, above last year, which I think it's really, really a super strong performance.

for sure. We are helped a lot by us, and I think all the luxury overall, and not just watchmaking, but luxury, luxury market help buy with, growth of almost a hundred percent. and we have set up a fantastic affiliate right there. We have 15 people. We brought in talent from the industry, really huge talent.

people even, national account coming from Patek and really, and everyone from the industry, So really we have been there, we have been really able of capitalising fantastically.

we are also working a lot to extend geographically our presence. We'll perhaps speak about Italy, like I call this phase two of, of, of the turnaround. once you have, cleaned your home, you're ready to invite [00:15:00] people. And, once we have, reset all things,now we are capable of scaling up.

So we are in the process of opening new market and we are opening a lot we are finding incredible partners,you know, traditional wholesalers that, believe in the project and are jumping on board and, in new market. So all of this is, is, is helping the, the brand itself. Its Britishness is, resonating well, so difficult, still moment, looking forward to a little bit of demand and market, coming back potentially if they sign this Iran run,piece, there are the basis to probably move into a much better period.

Robin Swithinbank: It's nice to hear that Britishness still resonates. I obviously, I'm a little bit biassed in this matter, but,

well, I don't feel like we're always terribly popular. Certainly not in the Eurovision song contest, which is a strange thing to reference perhaps in a luxury podcast. But nonetheless, it's good to hear that Britishness is working for you guys. Let's, try and look a little bit at the background to this position that you find yourself in and, and, and congratulations. I mean, it is extraordinary to, to record growth in this market, even if you are coming from a low [00:16:00] base. You personally have been in this game for more than a couple of decades now, and you've, you've worked for some of the biggest brands in the sector.

So what convinced you three years ago to join Bremmel?

Davide Cerrato: different element, uh, the authenticity of the story,the strong Britishness, and, you know, being an Anglo file since ever, you know, what has already, had already been set up in terms of, manufacture, only end to end manufacture in uk, with a number of boutique established with a food in us and with some presence elsewhere.

I, I know very well what I call the premium segment in which we are competing because I spent,now 19 of the 25 years of my career in watches, in this specific segment. So

Robin Swithinbank: With Tudor, with Mum Blanc, but specifically? 

Davide Cerrato: And which, uh, and, you know,looking at the company, at,the business model and everything, to me was, really evident to the an express potential that was there.

also, I was coming from an [00:17:00] experience into independent brands and incredibly enjoying, the, passion, the freedom, the creativity, the excitement, the room to, to, to do things. And, Bremont definitely is one of those independent brands born in the early 2000 and surviving through these 25 years and, with its own, specific story.

So I enjoyed very much also that. and then people when, you know, when I met, people inside the company, outside the company, but I met Bill,I, I saw, also people engaged,people, passionate people, with that were knowing what they were doing. conditions also around,with the long-term view that was, that was very reassuring.

and, and, I, I strongly believe that things don't happen by chance. And in a way, I was directed, working in the same segment,really mastering the value proposition element of it. the, the competitive edge, because it's the most competitive segment by far.

[00:18:00] The, but also that is challenging and is intriguing. And,the elements of authenticity, of the story of uniqueness, Martin Baker, the ejection seat, these iconic story Britishness, the fact that, there are not many British brand, or well-known British brand out there. But at the same time, that's how Watchmaking started.

Robin Swithinbank: So really in a way was a, I dunno, almost the logical next step. Yeah, there's so much to unpack in that. And you mentioned, bill. This is Bill Lackman, of course, who now has majority stake in Bremmel. When I spoke with Bill earlier this year, he said he'd been inspired by Jeff Bezos to make some investments based on, on whimsy, which was an term, not one I expect him to use. Would you describe his involvement in the brand as whimsical?

Davide Cerrato: so to answer to his, to your question, I will share an anecdote where first I met Bill, in his office, in New York for my formal interview with him. we have a lot of, common passion. One is fly fishing, by the way, it, it started like that.

And then, at a certain moment [00:19:00] we speak. And then he tells me, okay, do you have a question? I I tell him, absolutely, yes. Do you have a watch collection? And the guy says, with sparkling eyes, yes, I have, absolutely. And I ask him, what is in your watch collection? He looks at me and he say, okay, follow me.

Okay. then he jumps up, he runs out. I, I'm running behind him. we, we cross the hole. We take the elevator, the elevator. I mean, his car is driving himself a Tesla. We drive to his, I realise we are driving to his home. I'm welcome to his home, welcome in his closet. He opens his safe and, he starts to pull out his collection.

And, we spent like one in a half hour discussing of,why choose this and that, and, the, the meaning behind that and,his brand knowledge and and, and sharing what I was thinking about it. And yeah, he has a very interesting, incredible pieces. and he described that, experience, like, he said that, I was like the right key when you need to open a [00:20:00] door that immediately, easily, automatically goes through and opens smoothly.

And, so I think when he speaks about, whimsical does, speaking about the true passion that is behind is, is,watchmaking, evolvement, that goes beyond this incredible business acumen. And,he, he fell in love in a way, I was really involved, emotionally into this,particular story.

And also he has a, an incredible business flare. And I think as much as myself,spotted the, the big potential,immediately. And so that's perhaps why used that term,is an incredible, superstar of businesses. doesn't normally, doesn't apply naturally, but definitely there was a big component of, of passion, of, of enthusiasm, of excitement.

father was also collecting and had already a fantastic watch collection. So it's, it's is through watch Lover 

Robin Swithinbank: An enthusiast. Yeah.

With, I think last time I checked he had about 17 billion of, assets under management as well. So, uh,a Manuel positioned to, to pick up a [00:21:00] watch brand and, and the odd watch along the way as well. he's often qualified as an activist investor, isn't he? What's it like working for him?

Davide Cerrato: It's incredibly exciting,is by far the most talented people that I, that I, that I met in my life, is, is super positive. He is incredibly energetic. he is totally focused on opportunities and, spotting opportunities and reaching opportunities and, and,making progress and, and progress that compound and, and make change, and is a very refreshing view of business for myself and is a injection of the American, point of view on business, which is very refreshing, 

Robin Swithinbank: How would you define that compared to your previous employers?

Davide Cerrato: it's, it's, it's much more direct driven, quick,

Robin Swithinbank: The old, the old can-do attitude.

Davide Cerrato: Yeah, absolutely. And, there's no politics, there's no filter, there's no, theatre of that sometime we go through in groups and, and, is, is very smart spots thing in three second and immediately [00:22:00] knows what, what needs to be do.

And, so it's also very challenging. But I like it and I have learned so much in this, a little bit more than three years.

Robin Swithinbank: He's obviously given you quite a bit of, freedom, quite a lot of autonomy to make some big decisions, and, and there have been all sorts of changes at Brammo over the past three years from the branding through to the product. some new associations, some new partnerships. Look, look back for us over the past three years at what you inherited the big calls that you had to make and this, this process of transformation, as you've described it previously.

Give

us an idea of, of the process you've been through over the past three years.

Davide Cerrato: Absolutely. The company is a fantastic company and was already very special and very unique. with this, inception coming out of, an obsession for durability, let's build up the in destructible pilot watch. Let's test the first prototype on the wrist of a mannequin that is explosive 20 5G during an ejection seed test, and it needs to go through and came this trip.

Tk, anti vibration, anti magnetic, by the way, way before magnetism was a real topic with this [00:23:00] aviation connection, with this collaboration with the military, with, adventure and exploration and, and Britishness and,really, really unique and fantastic, as often happens to, family, business,in a typical organic way, which is you grab any opportunity out there in a clever way and you, and you turn them into business, which has been done systematically for, for many years.

the outcome of that is that the new risk of, getting into a situation where complexity is everywhere. we had 200 references,first decision, too many to go, seven product lines, a little bit of everything, way too many to be, possible to not only to scale up, but also to understand a little bit how this was done.

Did you feel quite ruthless then at the outset when you came in looking at those references, looking at those families of products? Did you, you have to be quite brutal in your approach to how you might transform the brand.

Yes. And, and if you have a long experience in the market, it is, it, it's an evidence. You see what I mean? So the first [00:24:00] thing that we did, we cut down from 200 to a little bit less than 100 for seven lines to three. we clarified, I, we, we, we are still running three years after a programme that is called Simplify to Amplify and is really the key of, of this process of transformation.

all about adventure and exploration, take it further. That is, the tum of,the, the, the spirit behind the company and, pushing yourself, beyond your comfort zone. And you're really going farther and adventuring exploring outside, which is also very much connected with Britishness as exploration was born, through Brits.

and,and then, operations,there was this project running to to to launch,an inhouse, calibre that came, which we will pursue, but just, it was launched too quickly, too early and, and it was creating more issue than, than delivering value. this 

Robin Swithinbank: the movement that was launched to great fanfare, the ENG 300,

which been long anticipated and was, was, had a lot of emotion tied up in it, didn't it? This

idea [00:25:00] returning manufacturing to to Great Britain.

It's interesting to hear you say you, you'll return to it and you will

pursue someday. far you

think it's 

Davide Cerrato: definitely, I want to clarify a point here that is very, very important. manufacturing in watchmaking means,the process to me of going from an idea, a sketch, prototype,pre-industrial and industrial watch, and then a watch that stays forever and you service from time to time.

The whole thing is watch money. Fact. That is what, and, and during this process, if you want to, to be capable of delivering a proper value proposition, you need to use the best that you can find out there. And finding a clever way of putting the best together to deliver the best product at the, the best price.

And perhaps we will speak about price after, because, it's a very important element of what done delivering a fantastic value. And, and,this is manufacturing. You see what I mean? And then, then you can, once you get to a certain size, decide to internalise, to [00:26:00] verticalize your manufacturing, either doing like a big company, have done buying back, suppliers that they were already working exclusively for them, or, creating your own,setup.

But, that's just something that comes along the way a little bit later on, when it makes sense for you, for economy of scales that you, because you have already achieved a big turnover and big volumes to, do it by yourself, to control much better, to improve the quality, to be, more, more secret, to do different things.

But,it comes after, and we are still, absolutely,going for that, for that objective of bringing manufacturing back in UK even more than before, because now we are doing it the right way. We are doing this in a sustainable way. element of what was done before will be definitely injected along the, the way when it'll make sense to do it.

And for, to, to, to bring back,manufacturing uk, we need to have a brand, a company that is solid and [00:27:00] sustainable over time so that, if you just, pushing machine and try to bang the metal just to say that you do it, but then, it doesn't make sense economically, then you're not not helping yourself and you're not helping the project overall.

Because to help a project, you need to set up something that can, that is solid, that is sustainable and can grow over time. And definitely that's exactly what we're doing. 

so those were, were bigger callout or let's stop the, the announced movement. Let's, let's use what is out there. But, and, and we have now Sali and, and Lare, but also we have developed, three,complication with three different.

And creative at Italian in Switzerland com. You know, uh, Tobe beyond time,perpetual calendar, dual time, and now while flying Tobe beyond skeleton, that are developed for us specifically and where all the movement it's even assembled in, in, in houses. So where we are, leveraging the knowledge of the master watchmaker, we are leveraging the knowledge of the whole organisation to do complex semen.

Just to prepare it in such a way that [00:28:00] when we will decide to do it, we will be able of doing it the right way.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah. You talk about things making sense and, and of course one of the significant things that you did during that process of transformation very early on in fact, was to introduce, new branding. And a lot of the, the, the new branding, the new logo, came under fire from brand loyalists and some critics, which I think you said before was a pretty challenging period for you.

How did you respond ultimately to that feedback?

Davide Cerrato: So the, the first element is, I have a very tough skin. 

Robin Swithinbank: Essential in business. 

Davide Cerrato: my exactly my life, make me very, very, very resilient. everything that does not kill you, make, make you stronger. This just made me even, stronger and even more capable of taking anything 

So you just need to get used to. so that, it was difficult, for sure a difficult period, be because, not for this, and not for myself, but because it, it goes very quickly, very personal and, when I say personal, my wife was personally [00:29:00] attacked, insulted, racist, very 

Robin Swithinbank: Crazy 

Davide Cerrato: and, and on, on a daily basis, which is totally,

 that doesn't, and accept, it doesn't make any sense.

I mean, come on, we are, we are doing watches. We are not,I dunno,

Robin Swithinbank: it's hard to hear that.

Davide Cerrato: changing the, the sort of the world neither, or, I dunno, we're not, doing crazy thing. So that, that was just the, when, when these, spills off to your, the people that are next to you and dear to you, that's when it becomes painful.

but at the same time, also it was a learning, and,I never went through that, in my previous, part of the career. So I also try to listen to that, to try to understand in the noise, if there were, points that were, interesting or relevant. And I think some, were definitely out there and we pick it up and you, we use that to, make some adjustment that, definitely improved our,products, our, the brain, the, the way in which the branding was looking.

And, I think that definitely, these also, count down the old situation because I think people appreciated to see [00:30:00] that,we were, we were listening and adapting and acknowledge in some points. So we just allow us to improve much in a much quicker way,the definition of our, of our product.

And yeah, and then it definitely taught to be the, the very good direct,decision. And, if we are growing, despite the very challenging situation is because,now this is allowing us to reach out to, to, to continue to serve even better than before our existing customer. 

 the new branding, the new logo, the new language, the new design, is also the key element to attract new customer. And,we are steadily growing our customer base and, and really enlarging it.

We are entering into new countries. we just delivered, the watches in France in Paris for our first point of sale in France. We will open the first week of July in, in two weeks time. Japan with a fantastic retailer in Tokyo, Yida. 

 And also I got a lot of people that,in this three years then came back to me and said, at [00:31:00] the beginning I was also a little bit confused by all this noise. But,now seeing what you're doing, guys, I think it was needed.

And it was just part of a, of a, of a positive refresh of the language that was needed to, to keep the brand vibrant and alive and relevant. That, these,element of actualization is fundamental in, in, in building up a, a brand that is standing for a long time, or a product that becomes iconic.

Robin Swithinbank: The fact of actualizing, of refreshing or keeping connection with the ze guest of the moment is, is, is the normal process with which is your main relevant. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to hear you. You feel justified in those decisions, and I'm sorry to hear that, the process was as uncomfortable and as personal as it proved to be. I'm glad you brought the story of going to the moon, shooting for the moon, up, because that's the next thing I wanted to talk to you about.

the last time you and I spoke, you were hoping to become the first British watch to land on the lunar surface as part of Gryphon Mission one, which is, or, or was, I'm not sure of the current situation, but it was, [00:32:00] it's slated for later this year.

us a bit more about that project, how it came about and, and indeed how it's going.

Davide Cerrato: with great pleasure. sea, land, air, take it further, adventure, exploration,discovering, travelling, the, the next,logic step was going upward space exploration and, is so nice for someone that is, was born in 1970, exactly when all this dream materialise. The scene that now is coming back,and, and, and all the government of the world are putting massive money to, reboost and redevelop the whole thing.

And, and everyone is again, crazy about it. everyone is looking at the stars, the moon at planets, and, we are all used to receive these crazy images of, of,spaceship that are travelling since tens of year and, and sending images of the universe that we could have not imagined.

And technology allowing to, discover more and more I think is, it was just perfect. So it was on the, on the map to add a fourth product [00:33:00] line called Supernova because,we already had a supernova in the past and we were looking for as always, Breman style. if we go to, to space exploration, we not only claim it, but we need to find something that is deeply rooted as much as when we say aviation, we have this incredible partnership with, Martin Baker and Andrew Martin and, and the testing.

And I just, had a fantastic discussion with him, a week ago where he was showing me f farther result of test of, of the new watches that prove that they are absolutely, incredibly resilient and resistant. And, also all these, positive, obsession that we have for durability was making a lot of sense going to space because,then you face condition that, are out of this world in every sense.

 And, uh, and so we were looking for something and, as you can imagine, we were looking for astronauts. We were looking for, possible mission things, ev everything that could be connected and a little bit by chance,[00:34:00] common connection. We get in contact with these, incredible company.

California Company, Astro Lab, specialise in, lunar vehicles that, had this, has this incredible objective of,becoming the main supplier of, of,human vehicles to support,human installation on the moon and and beyond. And had this, incredible vehicle called Flip, ready to go and, nail this, incredible mission in the South Pole of the moon that will happen in, at the end of this year, where, it'll be flip will be sent, up there and will, land in the south pole of the moon, which is where the man will settle because there are the better conditions and also is where,has been identified that there is frozen water, which is incredibly valuable for, Dero and drinking or transforming into oxygen for people there to breed and 

Robin Swithinbank: Sustaining life. Yeah.

Davide Cerrato: fuel,further exploration starting from there. So we similar [00:35:00] company in term of size to bremont, 150 people. very flexible, incredible engineer geniuses, and, and, incredible people coming from SpaceX, from, a lot of these,big companies.

And,yeah, we, with a very clear project in mind with these, timeline, quite short. And it just, it was just the perfect match. And, and we immediately decided to, Flip the head of, of Supernova, our, our chronograph. just the head, because going to space is one kilo, $1 million, so you try not to be too heavy.

and, and,it was immediately interesting both because it's, it's the next milestone of human exploration very clearly. flip will go there, stay there a number, make a number of cycles day, night, and knowing that, a day last 14 and half at Earth days, and, night the same so that it has a solar panel that during, the night, it goes down to minus 200 Celsius.

So you need to use energy to keep it a little [00:36:00] bit warm. and then, to restart again after the 14 and a half day of, uh, of darkness, it'll, do a lot of, research, both technological and technical for Astro Lab to inform the next generation of flip. And then flex that will be, is the bigger one where two astronaut can, sit on and use it, like SUV to, to go around the moon.

there is one that is very interesting that is about, Stardust, because there is no atmosphere on the moon. You are directly exposed to Stardust that is extremely, aggressive. they are also testing their multi-layer,coverage on, on, on these,rover to see if, can resist too.

And then the whole thing has, as a gener, energy is picked up via big solar panel. and for, electrostatic approach, this dust that is also as a metallic component can stick on the panel. So over time will reduce the capacity of the panel to recharge. So all this is incredibly, but it makes me think [00:37:00] about the early days of sport watches where before speaking about waterproofness, the real topic was, keep dust out of the, of your case.

so here we are a little bit exactly.

Robin Swithinbank: same challenge, but a a slightly different, a slightly more advanced, slightly further away as well, a quarter of a million miles away. let's, let's move on. I want to think a little bit about you, your experience as a creative. 'cause One of the things in your profile that's a bit different to so many of your industry peers is that you, you have a background as a creative and your name is attached to some of the greatest watch designs of the past 25 years.

None more so of course than Tudor's Black Bay. thinking about Supernova as an example, this watch that's going to the moon, how closely involved are you in the design and the creative processes at Bremmel?

Davide Cerrato: I'm very close in the sense that I, I act both as a CEO and as a creative director. So I really drive all the product team, product development and design team and,I really come up with ideas and vision of the watches that, we develop. and I do it transversally. I [00:38:00] really eat and breathe product.

And the product is the matter of everything. if the product is not good, then you can have the best marketing of the world, but it's not bringing you anywhere. So,and, I'm passionate about it. I, I, I studied both business and industrial design,it's really, I breathe it.

I, I, I, I draw and design since I was, I dunno, 3-year-old, I was designing comics before I was capable of writing text into the clouds of the characters. And it's really deeply embedded. And then I was born and grown in Italy and you get these very special sense for aesthetic, for beauty, for proportion, for.

it's really deeply embedded in me as much as, everything marketing related and, all the storytelling and that,and how to build a brand and how to evolve a brand. so yeah, I'm very, very involved.

Robin Swithinbank: Yeah. I mean, given that and given your experience as a three-year-old of, of, of drawing and of creating comics, what becomes your view therefore on how ai, artificial intelligence should be used in design and, [00:39:00] and more broadly in luxury? some are clearly very ready to embrace it as a stimulus. Others fear it's effect on human creativity and, and have already shunned it or, or appear to be shunning it.

What's your stance?

Davide Cerrato: I think it's, it's the future, and,we just get ready in the knowledge for the future. I dunno if I can make the comparison, but I just,shifted, like six months ago to a full electric car and allowed us and, to stay British if it, if it's more Chinese now than British.

But,and, and when when you have your, your, self-driving mode, you just understand that the future is there. You see what I mean? we just need to be capable of open and capable of embracing the future. I think there are infinite possibilities and I think in term of especially marketing, branding, advertising, content production, the opportunities are infinite and, and, and huge and, and is now is being used more and more, To make you an example,I dunno if I can tell this, but I'm very excited of launch in Japan and, and I think it's a, [00:40:00] it will be a huge, success for, for Bremont and again, Britishness and everything military and, resonates perfectly out there and, launch event and, we send all the material and we get a message saying, okay, we use a AI to, generate, the content, not anything linked to the product, so the product will not be touched, but everything else, we use that as the normal way of, preparing content for event and launches.

And so it's there, you see what I mean? People are using it more and more on the design side. I think that is incredibly, powerful and interesting and easy, to show you, possibility of variation and composting and in, in seconds and a little bit like to, to me the shock is a little bit like the, the 3D printer versus when you had to have three modelists that by end, where you see what I mean?

It's something like that. you, you can 

can, yeah, you can visualise in, in, in second any [00:41:00] possible combination of colour texture with a level of definition that,was even difficult to obtain. So I think in term of, sampling in term, of looking at variance in terms of exploring can be incredibly powerful.

And I'm also very much,into cars and, and car design and car brands that, and, and car because of their size, I've always had these incredible creative studios that always look like Star Wars with, next level of everything to be capable of illustrating and visualising. To me, AI feels a little bit like this, it just extends the opportunity to, to see, how you can evolve things.

I'm still, totally not in favour of using it to design because, I think that there is a human component of,emotion and what you embed and the brand and experiences of people and your designing of people. So,

Robin Swithinbank: is, is committee at 

Davide Cerrato: I'm also [00:42:00] open that that perhaps it's just, a barrier and in, I dunno, five to 10 years time we'll say, oh my God, you remember when we were still wondering?

But,

Robin Swithinbank: that history does tend to, to, to show that that's the case when new technologies come along, those who, who leave the technology get left behind. And that may well be the case here again, it, it, this shows me a little bit or tells me a little bit about your, your instincts. One of the instincts that we might have, or one of the tendencies that we might have looking from the outside in, is that you, as a, a very creatively led person rely on your instincts before engaging with, cold logic, cold hard logic for want of a better expression. Of course, I'm very ready to admit that might be wrong. When it comes to making your decisions, whether they're creative or whether they're about the, the financial position of the bus, the business, and the expansion plans you have, do you put your finger in the air? Do you read the air or behind your, your dubon air profile?

Are you in fact, a, a diehard data geek?

Davide Cerrato: I discovered when I was 25 through a headhunter in that simple test that I have a brain structure that, is a little bit, atypical, which is, left, right [00:43:00] brain even. most of people tend to be predominant left or predominant right?

Which means, predominant, rational or predominant creative to simplify as much more complex than that. But there are other people, a little bit fewer. there are many, but a little bit fewer, that are, have these two dimension even which means that you are exactly in the same way, capable of being very creative, but capable of being very analytic.

And, to me it was an epiphany when, when this guy showed me this, because till that moment I had a little bit struggle to take a direction because, I was trying to do creative stuff, marketing, design, and I was succeeding. And then I was, getting into marketing, but more the business side and numbers.

and, and, and I was seeing that as a kind of contradictory direction. And that thing made me understand that they are not at all. And on the contrary, the fact of being capable of designing with already in mind numbers and sales potential and the competition [00:44:00] and, and the competitive edge, or taking business decision, knowing about the trends and what's relevant and what the market is looking for, what what retailers are looking at makes,an incredible competitive advantage and creates a speed to market.

And, and in huge consistency because, in big, big organisation you have a, a department that, designs then throws to someone else that needs to tell, invent a story and then throw to the salesman that needs to invent a way of selling it. And you see what, and it's disconnected. You see, that is artificial.

That the story that was not there at the beginning, the design is, is not, made with the story mind when you develop, The old thing all comes together. So you see what I mean? 

Robin Swithinbank: Holistic, I suppose,

isn't it? I mean, sort these, these factors become complimentary rather than contradictory. If, if,

in your own head the, the, the business isn't siloed into, into different, factions, then it can [00:45:00] become much more, aligned, much more quickly by the sounds of things, which, strikes me as a very useful skill to have. look, one of the, in fact that brings us quite neatly onto this, this, subject that you very likely touched upon earlier, which is this issue of, of price. and there is a consideration in that of design,

but is also, of course a consideration in there of, producing a product which, can be scaled, which becomes economically viable. You've talked previously, and we've talked previously about how important you think it is to retain an accessible price point in your collection, and of course is a accessible is a very loose word and can mean any number of very different things to different people. In luxury watchmaking, I think we can probably agree it's around watches that that cost sort of $3,000 and under. So how important to the luxury watch industry do you think it is to offer accessibly priced watches using that definition when so many of your competitors are switched to this value model where they produce fewer watches at higher and higher prices?

Davide Cerrato: Yeah. this is a long-term commitment of my, career and,very clearly we Tudor when we launch and [00:46:00] when we, launch Black Bay from it was very similar to now the in term of context of market. at the time Rolex had gone up Omega behind and everyone behind and, and this segment of the, as you say, three to four or 22, 2 to 500 to four was completely de desert.

You see what I mean? And, and, and that's where we build the whole brand. And it was skyrocketed. The, the, the, the performance of it. It's happening a a little bit again, probably because as you say, there are, there is this segment still very successful of independent brand that do very few watches with very high, higher and higher, price points.

And there has been this bubble of,the, the, the cryptocurrency rich guys that were even skyrocketing prices of watches that were not rare, at all, just limited. there has been this illusion, you see what I mean? Both probably on the business side and then you know, more in the consumer that,a, a price that goes up is, [00:47:00] is more and more justified.

But I, I've always been very grounded in, in, in that, both in the sense that, already $3,000 for some people is a lot of money they need save, to be capable of, of, of throwing it out. And also because, when you are a small brand where, where you are not, not yet very much known, also, the price at which that you propose are, are, a, a lever to, to get market share.

And to me, in this market segment in particular, there is a golden rule that is systematically, systematically over delivering, systematically over delivering. 

Robin Swithinbank: How does that manifest itself?

Davide Cerrato: when we launched Terranova, we decided to populate these 2,500 to 3,500,price range that was, not available at Breon at that moment.

 that has proved to be extremely useful, especially in the last two year with this difficult moment that we are going through, and also to just recruit new customer for the brand. [00:48:00] But when we did it, we could have said, now we go designed to cost and,we strip down everything, we do everything in Asia, and we se we sell it cheap.

very clearly, the, the level of quality and sophistication that we're delivering, even at that entry point, is much higher than anything else that there is on the market, and to me, that's the way to go.

That's the way when you are at the beginning of your story of a company, of a brand, of any business to engage with your customer. And, the early customer in a way should be treated even better. they are trusting you before anyone else. So this element of value for money for us is extremely important.

And we have not increased our watches. So when the tariffs eat, even if we were attached, because all our movement come from Switzerland, so we were paying, a big, big increase of cost there, but we kept it low, and we are doing everything we can to deliver, to over deliver value in all our watches.

That's our, contract of trust with our customer.

Robin Swithinbank: [00:49:00] Good to hear. Well look David Day on this podcast. We're always looking for reasons to be cheerful and to find the Sunday up plans of the luxury industry. I'm throwing you the crystal ball largely so you can't say you don't have one. What do you see ahead for the sector that gives you reason to be optimistic?

Davide Cerrato: I think, there are, several elements. when I started,in the early days of my career with Panerai, Japan was, totally boosting the market. And, I'm also very happy to go back to Tokyo because I love Japan. 

then he came China. Then, China lately has been gone through a lot of stress for the, building market and, and financial market and for the mortgages and so on. But, it is slightly recovering. India is a very, very promising country and, really developing steadily and, one of those, more than 1 billion people country.

So I think this will definitely be a fantastic opportunity for the future. we 

Robin Swithinbank: you gone into India already?

Davide Cerrato: Yes. We are working there with ethos since, several years and, really developing strongly [00:50:00] our presence there. There is a link with Britishness that is quite natural

 and yeah, that, will be definitely one of the big, uh, market for the future.

 I still remember, ah, smart watches are coming, is the end of mechanical watches. And, and it's not, despite Apple have sold a lot, a lot of Apple watches, but, it's not, and they live.

So the fact that,mechanical watches remain relevant, continue to remain relevant and that,even young kids that, don't wear a mechanical anymore, they, they wear a smart watch and they have their mobile, but then when they start working, when they see that their peers have, when they get into a family, when they have milestone of life to celebrate and so on, they do, is, is very promising because means that there is something very deeply embedded in,human transmission and pleasure for beautiful shapes and liking cars, the, there is the revolution of electric coming, but still there are, classical race cars and there are vintage cars and, and all of [00:51:00] these leaves together.

And exactly, 

And even if you need to be, we said, clever enough to refresh and update and, keep it relevant that it'll always be there.

Robin Swithinbank: Last question. Your career spans more than three decades. What's the best piece of business advice you've been given?

Davide Cerrato: Never give up. 

Robin Swithinbank: It can be that simple, can't it? I mean, there must have been times in your career where perhaps you've thought about giving up, but you are clearly very persistent and

very dogmatic. 

Davide Cerrato: I'm also a very, very, very optimistic and positive, person capable of finding new energy every day. Even when you fail on something and then you learn and then you restart and, and, no, it's really a super good, advice and almost everything takes time to be build up.

even if the illusion of social media now is that,things happen in one day, uh,for magic. We know that it's not the case. And in a way is the beauty of life. If it was so easy to do, people will get bored very quickly. you need to work on that.

Robin Swithinbank: You need to operate, to articulate, to be creative, to be resilient, to, [00:52:00] swallow a little bit, a better pieces than to be capable to get to the sweet one. Yes, there's no joy without Sams sorrow. Wonderful. David Day. It's been an absolute pleasure speaking to you as it always is. good luck with getting to the moon and thank you in the meantime for taking time to join us here on Terra Firma on the Luxury Society Podcast.

Davide Cerrato: Thank you Robin, and a big cheer to all the people that will listen us.

Robin Swithinbank: Thanks David Day. 

Speaker 6: Thank you for listening to The Luxury Society Podcast, brought to you by Digital Luxury Group and produced by Fallow Field and Mason. If you've enjoyed this episode and would like to hear more, don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to go deeper into any of these topics, check out luxurysociety.com, where you'll find stories, insights, and profiles that unpack what's going on in the world of luxury right now.

I've been your host, Robin Swwithinbank, and this has been The Luxury Society Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. [00:53:00]