AUDIO Epi 1 Pharmageddon: How To Reshape Pharma Industry Now!

The future of Pharma is now. Disrupt healthcare to improve public health.
Discover how to reshape the pharma industry with innovation, patient advocacy, and regulatory strategy. Learn how patient involvement is crucial for radical innovation in the pharmaceutical sector. 

🎞️ This is an inaugural launch episode for the IPZO facto podcast. Episode 1: Pharmageddon. 

Subscribe for updates when full episodes are released!

🎯 Join the InnoPathwayZ waitlist now to access new content first + Founder's bundle. https://innopathwayz.myflodesk.com/ipzwaitlist 
=============================================
📣 Also available on YouTube as a video podcast. Subscribe and Listen to the IPZO Podcast here to get notified when released. https://www.youtube.com/@INNOPATHWAYZ?sub_confirmation=1

See other content.
=============================================
➡️ Join Pharmageddon USA 2025 April 23-24 in Philadelphia! https://www.impatient.health/our-events/pharmageddonUSA/ 
➡️ See more from Impatient Health and future Pharmageddon events https://impatient.health/
➡️ For more information on Pharmageddon Europe 2025 https://www.impatient.health/our-events/pharmageddonEU2025/
=============================================
➡️ Connect with us!
InnoPathwayZ (IPZ) https://www.linkedin.com/company/innopathwayz-llc/
Zina Manji, Founder & Principal, Regulatory Strategist, InnoPathwayZ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zina-manji/

➡️ For more information about Impatient Health and Pharmageddon events, contact:
Lucy Osborne,  Senior Event Manager, Impatient Health https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucy-osborne-3932a749
Noreen Sajwani Head of Innovation Consulting, Impatient Health https://www.linkedin.com/in/noreensajwani
=============================================

#innovation #pharma #healthcare #disruptive

Because with healthcare Innovation, there is No Way But Forward!

Transcript

Okay, quick question. When was the last time you actually had a good healthcare experience? It's a tough one, right? I hear you. The truth is, whether you're in pharma, in healthcare, a patient or caregiver, or just someone trying to stay well, we all bump up against this tangled, complicated system.


Let's be honest, it's not working the way it should. But here's the thing, we can do better. And it takes all of us to build something smarter, fairer, and more human. And this is why I'm so excited about Pharmageddon events by Impatient Health, a movement shaking things up in conversations we absolutely must have. 


And I'm so excited that a discussion about these events are part of the inaugural episodes one and two of this podcast. So welcome to IPZO facto podcast, where when it comes to innovation, there's no way but forward. 


I'm Zina Manji, a regulatory strategist in healthcare innovation, professional maze runner of the life sciences industry. I spent over 20 years working with big pharma, engaging with scrappy startups, and med tech trailblazers, chasing down ideas that could actually make a difference. 


Now with InnoPathwayZ, my mission is simple, decode the chaos of healthcare innovation, and help people live better, healthier lives through new innovations. Because we don't need more buzzwords, we need bold moves. 


So if you're picking up what I'm putting down here, go ahead and subscribe, like this video, and drop a comment below, not because of the algorithm alone, because it does help, but so that we can build this thing together, bring in amazing guests and serve up better braver conversations about healthcare's future. 


and insights and strategies and actions. All right, so let's dive in. The full episode is coming up right after the highlight reel. What keeps you up at night?  Just going to think about it, but I'm going to do something. innovation that come from having a smaller group in a room together, discussing that holistic view of a person in the right patient advocate in the room, and making sure that they can hold pharma accountable. 


And there was some moments where I was, oh gosh, how's that? Go out and find today what people are actually talking about in the industry and what they're not talking about. If you make Gen Z and alpha for your problem, they will become your problem. 


You need to bring them in. Create these traps for ourselves, right? that then we need to untangle. But we're all patients, you know, so there is the one industry, that binds us all.  The patient has to be at the heart. 


But what does that actually mean in solving problems? And even if it's just that little flame, we're all about breaking down silos as well. Small, but mighty. Being overly processed takes away from the natural creativity. 


Ambition has now come up, right? We created these solve sessions to bring together the ideas around how is it that different industries can kind of work with pharma, The one wish I have for people to take away from the conversation. 


It would just be... go in, there's the big ideas, there's the shaking up the industry, blowing it up, rebuilding it, tangible solutions to that. And the manifesto is about a pledge to be better. Well, hello, welcome to the IPZO facto podcast. 


I'm so thrilled to be joined by my two friends, Lucy and Noreen for this episode to talk about an upcoming event called Pharmageddon. So really interesting name. So Lucy and Noreen, how about introduce yourselves and what you do and what motivates you? 


Hi, I'm Lucy. I'm the senior event manager here at Impatient Health. Pharmageddon USA is my baby. I created it because I felt there was a necessity, something that we really needed in our industry, a place where people can get together and try and improve the industry in a cohesive way, not sitting around, listening, impassively listening to people, talk on a stage. 


This was about rolling our sleeves up, really making a difference within the industry. And I felt this was something we really, really needed to happen. And with the help of people, experts like Noreen and our CEO, Paul Simms, we've made it happen. 


Hello, my name is Noreen. I'm the head of consulting at Impatient Health. A lot of the work that I do with Impatient, generally speaking, is around disrupting the status quo in pharma. It's about getting pharma to think a little bit differently out of the box, as you would call it. 


But I think, you know, Pharmageddon to me and really how that ties into the Impatient Health brand with the work that Lucy and the team has been doing is how do we actually make that come to life? How, you know, we can say let's think out of the box, let's disrupt pharma. 


But those are all just words and actually putting that into action is where you get an event like pharmageddon, where you actually get your hands dirty and try to solve the problems that we've all been, you know, maybe griping about within pharma. 


And I think that's just one of the reasons why I really do love the event. I think it's immersive. It's an experience. It allows you the opportunity to say, I'm not just going to think about it, but I'm going to do something about it. 


And that's why I love kind of being a part of the journey with Lucy and the team. Yeah, I think also originally pharmageddon, the whole word and where it came from was about blowing up the industry and building it back better. 


And sometimes it takes a radical change, something completely different to get people's cogs turning in a different way, to look at problems in a different way. So yes, we're doing something colossal, and it seems like big and scary, but actually maybe if it just makes you look at one topic and one part of your pharma industry life and makes like problem-solve in a different way, that's what pharmageddon is all about. 


You know, you go in, there's the big ideas, there's the shaking up the industry, blowing it up, rebuilding it, but at the same time leaving with tangible solutions to your problems. And even if it's just that little flame and then having a community of people from different companies, they're able to help you on that journey from then on, because it's all about breaking down silos as well. 


The problem that we have is, you know, people just work in their silos and we have some really great innovations and we only get to see those innovations when we put people into a more work shopping experience, instead of going to a two-day event where you passively sit in your hands and listen to panelists, say their piece, humble brags, this, every single person has to be involved in the industry. 


event and by the end of the two days you will know personally everybody in that room and I think that's what makes this event purposefully small but mighty. That's fascinating and I think you really explain the term pharmageddon and why that's used for this this event and and really fascinating Lucy you talk about the origin of this event and Noreen about why why it's even needed therefore an event like this needed what you call the the unconference I think and and there's a manifesto for pharmageddon so can you talk just a little bit more and going a little bit deeper on that manifesto and how how does that feed into is is this a movement that's being created and can you talk talk a little bit more about that in terms of movement and and how you expect things to change, 


how would we drive change through this mechanism of the organization of the event itself? I think as an event it has progressed and mutated as it's gone along because we started with this Pharmageddon blowing things up, let's go, and we realized we couldn't keep saying the same thing over and over again, that's not progress, it's just being sensational for the sake of being sensational. 


Which is why we actually went in this different realm into the agenda of the four A's which we'll get into at a later date, but we're always thinking like myself and Noreen and Paul and other parts of the team were always brainstorming saying like how can we make this the most brilliant event the most radical but yet helpful event in the industry. 


I think so much of that and the manifesto is about a pledge to be better and to every day or week have a little bit of thinking of how can I make this industry better. We all got into this industry, I think pharma is probably one of the biggest purpose driven industries there are and that is really obvious and sorry if we're going on a tangent but it becomes so obvious when we have Pharmageddon how purpose driven everyone in that room is and sometimes we go a little bit off our path of why why did we start and I think Pharmageddon brings it back to that purpose and makes us realign with what our values are and how we can bring that into our work. 


Yeah I think I think the values and bringing that into our work is is so key because to your point it's very purpose driven and for those who choose a career in pharma, you wouldn't do it if you didn't have have kind of that purpose to make a difference and specifically in health care. 


And, but at times, there's that feeling of, well, are we aligned, right, as the purpose of the company and in teams and how we're trying to accomplish the goals, how we are looking at different areas to innovate in and how we do that. 


At times, there can be kind of a feeling of over being overly processed, that kind of takes away from the natural creativity ideation and the sense of, right, let's just do it, you know, let's let's how do we get this done. 


So in terms of Pharmageddon as a movement, I, my impression and my experience with Pharmageddon having attended last year is this feeling of this is a movement for change, because it's, it's values driven, as you say, but it's also this, this alignment, how can we do something different? 


And we will get into then, you know, how do you curate attendees and speakers for this, this type of event? But Noreen, I was curious, from your point of view, and your, your experience from, from pharma, do you, do you feel that, that this is, this is a movement and what do you both think success looks like? 


Yeah, it's a good question. I think, you know, when we first started, it was about, as you said, kind of making people think differently, act differently, disrupting, it was just about, as Lucy says, breaking things down, right? 


That deconstruction process is really important to then build back up and build back up. So at first success was just get people to think differently. It's just about breaking it down. If everyone's, you know, frame of reference has shattered post event and they're left in pieces, we've succeeded, because that's all it was about, right? 


And I think, as, you know, Pharmageddon has evolved over the years, and I know, you know, Lucy's talked about this loads, the ambition has now come up, right? So it's, okay, it's not just about breaking things down. 


It's about how do you connect with other parts of the global community and the ecosystem around healthcare? Are there, you know, partners or industries that we can look at for inspiration, whether that be technology, or media, or culture, arts, and made these solve sessions to bring together the ideas around how is it going to work, how is it going to work, it that different industries can kind of work with pharma and not against pharma or in separate bubbles to pharma to genuinely create that holistic view of a person, 


right? People are not just their conditions that they deal with on a day-to-day basis or the symptoms that they have when they're feeling ill, they live and breathe and work and play in a society. And so how is it that we can actually genuinely bring together different parts of society, different industries that work to build a whole person together and pharma's a part of that to then kind of almost superhumanize us, 


if you will, for lack of better words. And I think, you know, that's that's something that we really want to raises the next ambition. One thing that the team is doing now is talking about how do we get people from other industries? 


How do we get folks in finance, in media, in tech to come to pharmageddon? Maybe because in the beginning, they might not be motivated by what pharma is doing, but they can then push that ambition to a new level. 


And I think that's kind of where Lucy and the team are really taking the event to new heights. Yeah, really interesting. And I can hear the evolution from just last year in 2024, if I understand correctly, that was the inaugural event in the US. 


And to your point, it was a point in time. I'm hearing that's a point in time introduction, breakdown. But now it's like, OK, let's get to the next phase. So to that point, how do you curate speakers and attendees for this type of event? 


I'm not calling it a conference. I'm calling it a unconference. Where you are trying to encourage and enable those solve sessions, those discussions. And having it, as I recall from last year, in a safe space, where people can really talk openly about challenges that they face across industry, across companies, and say, well, these are the tactics that work for this department, or that department, or collaborations. 


And collaborating in a way that maybe was not thought of before, and kind of doing doing things differently because time is one of our most precious resources. And yes, it takes time to develop something. 


But how much better if we can do it efficiently and on target and to your point, Noreen, about the whole person, somebody is not a diabetic, right? They are a person who is experiencing diabetes. They also might be an athlete, right? 


So this disease is not defining the individual. We tend to label defy individuals based on their disease states and maybe one disease at a time versus there's, there's so many things going on. If you layer onto that cultural differences, life, life environment differences. 


So really intriguing what you say, Noreen, about the whole person. right, and what that means. So Lucy, pharmageddon is your baby, as you said, and so how do you, based on your past experience, what did you have to learn differently or tackle differently in terms of how do you even curate for speakers and attendees for this type of event? 


I think with pharma, with patients at the core and the heart of it, there's a lot more empathy that goes into this event than does a lot of other in my experience. It's interesting because one of my favorite parts of this role is talking to the patient advocates and getting the right patient advocates in the room and making sure that they can hold pharma accountable. 


And I think some of the most liveliest debates that we had at pharmageddon USA was because we got really punchy advocates who really knew their stuff as well. And there were some moments where I was like, oh gosh, how's this going to go? 


They elevated the event to the next level. I remember panelists, like really amazing senior pharma executives telling their stories about their health journeys. And I know this has been so plenty, but we're all patients, you know, so it's the one, it's the one, healthcare is the one industry that combines us all, it binds everybody. 


An event like this is there to remind us that yes, we still need to keep the patient at the heart, but in a useful way, what can the patient experience bring to a pharma process? And because so many times we talk about having a patient, a patient has to be at the heart, but what does that actually mean in an event like this? 


It's not just people getting up and telling their stories. It's how does their, how does their experience and how, what can we tell? take from their experience to make the industry better and really think about how best to engage the patient. 


And then also looking into people's personal stories. And I remember Zina, you told your story on stage last year and that was really moving. And people started getting up and telling their purpose stories and backgrounds as well. 


And it was a really unique moment that you don't get at events. You don't think about almost being moved to tears about someone's beautiful story at something like a pharma conference. So I think that's what kind of ups the ante with Pharmageddon. 


Yeah, I'm recalling those moments from last year. And I think it's very touching moments. Like you say, it really grabs you, right? And it makes us all kind of pause and rethink about why we're doing what we do. 


Oftentimes when we're in a corporation. We get very focused on our objectives, meeting the objectives, meeting the business timeline. We are patient-driven, because that's what we need to do. But sometimes we need to pause and just think, let's hear the patient. 


Are we solving a problem that they actually feel needs to be solved and are we solving it in the right way, holistically in the right way? What are barriers that are holding back the barriers to adoption, right? 


And as you say, patient advocates are very educated in their own right. They know their disease and several diseases very well. Hence, they are very well placed to bring ideas to the forefront. And it requires, I think, a mindset shift. 


When you are approaching a conference such as this, what did you find in the beginning? Was there things that surprised you or were there challenges that you didn't expect or challenges that you expected but actually people were very open to it? 


Let's talk a little bit about that. Yeah, absolutely. I think the unique thing about Pharmageddon is the thought leaders kind of mold the event. So when we choose and select our speakers, it's usually because they're already the provocateurs and the disruptors of the industry. 


And that's kind of our, you know, if you're known for that, we usually approach you or we may already know you and say, hey, we'd love for you to speak at this event. And the first thing I do when I interview the speaker is ask them, what keeps you up at night? 


what is your issue? What's your problem? And what would you like to speak about? And so we take an agenda that is already thought out that we believe is going to be, you know, really thought provoking. 


But we don't just do it on us. It's not just me and Noreen and Paul sitting around and being like, we think this will be a great thing to talk about. I then want the backing of the thought leaders. And I think, Lucy, something that you do before you even start that process, right, is, Zina, the team, one of the things that I love about Pharmageddon is even within Impatient, it's almost like a, 


it's a it's an event or it's an initiative that everyone gets involved in in our teams. So we've got, you know, three different parts of the business, the one that does the events and runs the events, we've got the consulting team that feeds into the solve sessions. 


And then we've got our research team, which actually gathers those insights. So before we do Pharmageddon, Lucy will commission the team to say, right, we need to do a research sprint, which is, you know, an offering that we give our clients, we do that internally. 


So we're practicing what we preach to say, let's go out and find out today, what people are actually talking about in the industry and what they're not talking about, because that's just as important. 


And I think that was what led us to, you know, talk about climate change and the impact of health and health equity in pharma and the role that we should be having. It's topics like that. And I think, you know, Lucy's always, Lucy, you're always very good about saying anything is fair game in the beginning. 


Let's throw it out all on the table. So, you know, I revived my master's thesis by saying, Lucy, I want to talk about bioethics and pharma. And she went, right, let's add it to the list, and then we'll think about it. 


So, you know, I think we do go through, as Lucy says, this journey, but it starts with a very core evidence base. The research team is going away, speaking to actually some of these people that end up being our thought leaders and our speakers to say, what are you guys interested in? 


What are your, as Lucy says, what are your challenges? But then also, then we take a critical lens to that, to say, what are people not talking about? And why are they not talking about that? And that helps, you know, you, Lucy, build that first version of the agenda that you say, right, these are, I think the things we need to talk about. 


And then it evolves as life happens, as, you know, geopolitical trends take place, as people change their minds, as different topics of conversation. come to the forefront. And I think that that flexibility and that evolution is what we're expecting pharma to do. 


So again, it becomes something that we practice what we preach. And I think sharing that with a broader audience of even how we do it on a day-to-day basis and don't get me wrong, we wanna pull our hair out sometimes as well. 


It's not easy, that journey, but it's about being willing to be on that journey that I think is really powerful to do. I think we're kind of unique in that, I've never heard of anyone else doing this, where we have a flexible-ish agenda, which actually goes through a evolution series over six months. 


And we just keep editing and changing it and making sure that the up-to-date topics are being discussed. Because if you create an agenda eight months ago and you put a date, exactly, if you stay rigid to the agenda, especially in the way the US is moving at the moment, things are just not going to be current. 


And so that's something I'm quite proud about is our flexible approach in the agenda and the thought leaders and they want to have their say. So they'll say, this is what I want to talk about. I'm like, right, that will work on that topic. 


It's not, we don't just pick an agenda by willy-nilly. It is all thoroughly researched by my, the incredible team at Impatient Health. So yeah, it's great. Talk about collaboration, like collaboration within pharma industry. 


Actually, like you're saying, you're practicing just that, how you're organizing this event. Because to your point, I mean, things are changing for, it could be for, for anything could be geopolitical. 


The pace of technology is exponentially going faster than regulations can keep up with faster than clinical evidence can keep up with, right? And so there are so many aspects. And as you say, environmental things like climate change or other healthcare ecosystems, broadly, I mean, all of these things can impact the system in which we live and how we acquire and experience healthcare. 


That in and of itself is also up for discussion, right? So to your point of, it's a very different type of event. So I'm not calling it a, let's not call it a conference because, you know, what, what you think about from conferences, very scripted agenda, very specific topics and specific speakers and moderated sessions, let's say that speak to that topic, few questions. 


and then we move on to the next, and then to the next segment, to the next segment. So here, I mean, you are living and breathing the definition of agility. So let's talk about that a little bit. I think, yeah, absolutely. 


In order to be relevant, that's what I'm hearing, right? In order to be relevant, you have to make it real and meet the moment. And for that reason, you have to be flexible. And you have to focus at some point, because otherwise it will go on for days, right? 


And so how do you choose which topics to focus on? And very interesting about what's not being talked about. I think that's a really good thing to flag, is what's not being discussed. Let's discuss that. 


We're coming to this event. we are individuals, professionals in healthcare coming to this event and happen to be at the companies we're at, but then let's have an open conversation about how we all integrate and the broader industry because as they say, rising tides lifts all boats, right? 


So how do you figure out where to then say, okay, here's the line now, this is it, this is the agenda, these are the topics and go. Lucy has an executive order button that she pushes and says, no more people. 


She has just completed the time agenda. No, obviously at some point we have to push the button because we need to make sure our panelists are fully brought in on the topics and understand and start to really flesh it out and make sure that all the organization is in place. 


It's not complete chaos. But I think a good example of coming to this, of an evolutionary stage is in New York last year, we had an incredible out of industry speaker, head of DEI for New York University, Lisa, and she brought up Gen Z and Alpha and saying, if you make Gen Z and Alpha your problem, they will become your problem. 


You need to bring them in. This became an evolution. We had different execs saying, we need a Gen Z panel. This is what we should do. So last month, we did a webinar. How to talk to Gen Z and stop belittling them and talking down to them and. 


acting like they don't matter when they are the future. And I think, I know I was talking to a speaker about this and they were saying 70% of her team was Gen Z. And this is not being discussed enough. 


So this is a kind of, I'm going convoluted part of it, but I'm kind of explaining the evolutionary path that comes from one topic. And the engagement that we've had from that means that we are now having a Gen Z live panel in Philadelphia in six weeks time. 


And I think this is a good example of how like little seeds are sown by experts, which was an industry expert. And now we're running with it and people are really interested and engaged because Gen Z is the future and we need to, they need a seat at the table. 


And I think, I will just add to that by saying, Thank you. We all know Lucy's got a tough job and we don't doubt that and Lucy's got even a tougher job because I think in her role she sees it all. So she's you know Lucy I didn't even know about that example and how that was kind of the seed that you decided to help grow but I think it's so powerful because it what does you know when I take a step back and I say what does this event require? 


It requires someone that has the foresight, someone that has the vision to say actually this topic is one that's going to blow up I can feel it and I think Lucy you're so good at that where you know you can kind of take that Gen Z moment and say that's not being spoken about it needs to be kind of amplified and you know alongside Lucy's many hats she then becomes that amplifier of the voices as almost someone that's you know in the industry but on the periphery of the industry to say guys push this push this ball back into this court bring this ball back into this court right it's almost this beautiful orchestrator of you know a game if you will and I think that that is you know as someone that sits in pharma in the industry with clients on a day-to-day basis when you're in the middle of the trees it's hard to see through the forest you know whatever whatever that metaphor is but I think it becomes really really really important for us to have people like Lucy to say hey actually let's connect to these guys let's double down on this let's dial this up and that's why an event like this kind of allows that spark to then say we need to amplify this voice we need to bring this topic to the forefront and I just I love that about that example that you shared Lucy to kind of highlight that it does it beautifully oh thank you um I think it kind of helps that I am really don't know much about pharma. 


I am an event professional that's my shtick and I leave all the the flesh on the bones to the experts like Noreen who actually takes my very small idea and makes it something really tangible and brilliant so yeah it's it's it's just we it's great that we all get to work together and and produce something that's quite unique. 


When we're in companies we tend to become very insular right where we're like talking about our products, our company, our patients we're trying to serve and for a good reason because you know time is of the essence and patients need to be served and a lot needs to happen to bring product to market and we're each being asked to do a lot. 


a lot more and cover a lot more things, especially if you're in charge of a team and a global team. And there is just always so much to do, right? There's the day-to-day whirlwind that everyone is dealing with, and you're trying to get through that whirlwind. 


So it's by no means because anyone's wanting to ignore anything. It's just that, you know, we just gotta keep that focus, gotta keep that focus. And the what you just brought to mind is that you do need to kind of step away. 


And you need to step away to be able to see the broader picture, what's missing, what can help to break down a barrier, because sometimes there's perceived barriers, there's not really a barrier there. 


It's a perceived barrier because, you know, we all do what we've always done, right? And sometimes we're doing processes and it's like, well, we've just always done it that way. And if I can add to that, Zina, I think, you know, one of the examples, again, of that in a Pharmageddon that we recently did was, you know, I was speaking to them and saying, what motivated you to come to the event? 


And they said, oh, you know, I've heard about it, I'm really excited about it, the momentum. And they said, one of the things that I really, really wanna learn is from my colleagues in the industry. And again, to your point about these perceived barriers, you know, we believe that, oh gosh, you know, if I belong to pharma company A, I can't speak to pharma company B because of competitive intelligence, 


because then, you know, we're sharing company trade secrets and things like that. And you almost get bound by that inability to even interact with other pharma companies because you feel like, oh gosh, that's again. 


the rules, right? And, you know, one of the things that we do talk about in Pharmageddon is like, what are actually the compliance challenges that you're facing? Because they're probably not what you think they are, right? 


You're probably perceiving a lot of barriers and building up those walls. So when he said to me, I'm actually so excited to be at this at this conference because or at this not conference, if you will, because I get to learn from industry peers in a safe and open space, it sort of allowed me to think, oh, gosh, we're naturally just sharing stories. 


But these stories become case studies. They become conversations that people can take back to their teams. They almost help further the industry as a whole because it's not about competing with one another, it's about learning from one another. 


And I think that's kind of the reframing of the dialogue around these perceived barriers that we have, which the event really kind of helps nurture and foster as well. Absolutely. And I think, Lucy, you said you're not a pharma individual, but actually we all experience healthcare. 


And so in some way, we're all stakeholders in this, right? And I think what I love about what you both described about the organization of this event is you need to be able to step back and see the broader picture. 


There needs to be someone who can step back and see that broader picture so that you can create. And that's something that is hard to do when you're in the moment and in a structure. It's hard to step back and see that broader picture. 


So I think having an event where enables fresh thinking is really helpful because you then get motivated on, ah, okay, maybe I can think about it this way. So it really does create mindset shifts, I think, when you're having those conversations and you're kind of energized. 


And one thing for me that was really helpful is that, you know, as an individual professional, you often feel like, especially when you're having challenges, right? Let's face it, when things go well, you feel good and that doesn't seem to be a problem. 


However, the sharing that is also helpful from the broader aspect. But especially when you're going through challenges as an individual in a company, and you're stuck trying to change a process or trying to encourage a new type of collaboration. 


Sometimes you kind of feel like, wait, is it me? Am I crazy? You end up kind of self-doubting yourself because you feel like people stare at you with eyes glazed over, because you know, just always done it this way. 


Why are you questioning this? You know, let's just get on with that kind of thing. And so you do kind of feel like it's, you're alone in what you're trying to do as a change agent. I think especially for people who are change agents wanting to drive something different, this can be, sometimes it can be very, very difficult. 


And I remember at last year's event, you know. talking about you know how we collaborated and you know within our companies and and someone mentioned about you know caught in a trap you know we we create these traps for ourselves right but then we need to untangle but I think in an event like Pharmageddon what what ends up coming coming up is that well sometimes maybe you don't have to actually untangle it you just stop it and do it differently. 


Yeah absolutely I think a big thing about the event is I get asked a lot if they can come online and if people can join the event digitally and it's not that we don't include people but it completely ruins the vibe because the whole point is the people feel that they're in a safe space like we call ourselves the home for the weirdos right the people safe space for people who just think a little differently and it's not like it's chatham house rule or anything but you know we want to create that environment where everyone's in the moment and they feel like they can share and so for us that whole we obviously big on digital events but this one is about being in the room and we can't really do half of the event digitally because it's about these expertly created solve session which are Noreen's brainchild children and it's basically this incredible workshop like you know 250 200 person workshop where everyone is all thinking together and honestly the feeling in the room is kind of electric and we want to always foster that community and that feeling of a safe space. 


Yeah and I think to kind of add Lucy to to what you're saying. Sometimes I find that not just in the world of pharma, but just in the world of corporate organizations as we evolve, we believe in hierarchies and bureaucracies and reporting lines. 


And we have systems and structures and processes that we so desperately do need. I'm not dismantling those or critiquing them, but I think sometimes I even fall into the trap of, oh, this is a hierarchy line and so I can't go against this person or I need to agree with that person, right? 


You fall into groupthink or you fall into the same sorts of vanilla ideas. And so I think one of the things that this event allows us to do is every person comes in on the same playing field. there's no hierarchy involved, right? 


If you do come in and, you know, let's say you're, there's five people from an organization that are all part of a team that have come in, you get sat in separate groups. And so you're kind of, each of the experiences is curated in a way where, number one, you're not necessarily with working colleagues, so you don't know someone's level and that doesn't impact you. 


Number two, you're working on a problem that's, you know, across the industry. So it's not like you have any more or less experience. And even if you do, even if you worked in regulation for 20 years and the person sat next to you has not, it doesn't mean that you can't both tackle that problem. 


And you're in fact, you're forced to tackle that problem together for the next hour, right? So all brains are required. And it's that design thinking mindset, that methodology around if we're genuinely going to be human centered, the only baseline, you know, knowledge that you need is how to be a human. 


If you know how to be a human, you're allowed. And I think that's really important to bring to the table. And it really does elevate that experience face to face because it's that, you know, they say, what is it 70% of communication is non-verbal. 


And so that, you know, to Lucy's point, being face to face, being in person, you read the body language, you sense things, you can feel that you can be on the same page all around a cause or a problem or a challenge that's outside of your day to day job. 


It's not that it doesn't relate back to it, and you can't take some lessons learned. But because you're all solving, it's kind of like when you have to build a Lego, you know, together, you're all you're all tackling this new thing. 


And so you almost have to forget about everything else, all the hierarchy, all the organizational bureaucracy that you've got. And I think that provides almost the. open space, as Lucy says, the safe space to say, we're all equals here. 


If you're a human, you're allowed to come. And we even had non-humans at Pharmageddon USA. We had a little pup that came by and he was the next person to come. It was so sweet. All life. All life is involved. 


Hello again. The content of this video resonates with you. Join the Inno Pathways wait list for early access to new content, offers, and our founder's bundle for new programming. We'd love to have you join the community. 


The link's below in the notes. Human-centered design, those are kind of ideas and principles that we borrow from in our Impatient innovation kind of process. And then, as Lucy said, we then understand where our audience is in that innovation process. 


So if you're at step one of the innovation process, we're not gonna jump you to step four, but it's about, you know, building onto that, how can we get you to step two to step three? And I think one of the biggest differences Lucy that we found was that, you know, the US is generally, and I'm making a generalization more innovative just because of the nature of their, you know, economics, their society, 


the kind of companies that are headquartered there. And so it means that when we create these events, it's not that, you know, the US is more innovative than Europe, but it's that they need different things to spark and to ignite that innovation process. 


And so we have to then use different levers to then get them potentially to different points, but just to ignite and to amplify and to spark that kind of that drive to want to do more. And I think that's, you know, it's a hard job. 


It's hard to be able to say same events, same, you know, name different kind of locations, but different processes. And I think one time Lucy didn't someone ask us, oh, well, isn't it just gonna be the same in the other one? 


We're going, no, no, no, no, no, it can't be, because if it was, not only would we be repeating content to Lucy's point, but we're not actually hitting the mission. That's not the objective. The objective is to spark that innovation for different people in different ways, recognizing the culture, the economics, the politics, the society, knowing that most pharma companies are headquartered in the US means that there's a different way of approaching those conversations. 


Regulation changes at a different pace. Lobbying has a different influence or impact. And it means then we talk about some of those things and quite frankly, make it a bit uncomfortable. I think, you know, one of the feedback that we got from Pharmageddon Europe was, we all agreed too much. 


And that was a lesson learned for us. It was, gosh, we need to have more debates. We need to curate more debates for people to disagree respectfully, because that's the only way we're going to get further in that thinking and in that knowledge. 


And I think that, you know, is our newest challenge that we're trying to work through, but a good one to have. I find in the US, the debates aren't hard to come by. People are very keen to debate and disagree, which is why I like the way Noreen gave a very concise and almost engineering point. 


And I was like, well, the vibes are different. You need both. You need both. but people aren't really ready to have those debates. And it's why I'm getting really excited for Philly because I know it's gonna be a lively one. 


I'll start to wrap up here, but I think we just keep talking because this is just a fascinating conversation. The goal is not to need this event, right? The success would be I'm out of a job. Yeah, it's something I often say to my team, you know, and even when I'm speaking to folks about what is your job, then I say, my job is to not have a job because the nature of my job as a consultant, as the head of consulting is to solve problems. 


And, you know, ironically enough, every problem that you solve then probably creates three more problems, right? And that's why the world of consulting exists in a little bit of a way. But I think, you know, I always say my goal in life is to not have a job because once I've solved all of the world's problems, that's when I know I'm not needed anymore. 


I can go away, do something else, you know? And I think similarly, I would argue that's a little bit of the goal of Pharmageddon. Like, let me see, you say it all the time. Our goal is to never have to do a Pharmageddon again because it's natural, it's integrated into the day-to-day workings of people's lives. 


Yeah, absolutely. It's the event that was born to die and no success for us. I mean, I'm glad it exists because I'm all about community and I'm glad to all the people that I've met along the way and I want to keep building this community. 


But at the same time, we wish this event wasn't necessary, basically. So yeah, we're calling this one the event that was born to die. Wow, what a fascinating conversation. I was so happy to be able to talk with both of you today. 


I've learned so much and I'm just re-energized. and what this event is all about and what it's not about. So what's one thing, a piece of insight that you would give for folks and what are you thinking forward? 


Yeah, I think if there's one kind of one wish I had for people to take away from the conversation, it would just be talk to people outside of your industry if you're in pharma. I think there's a lot of power in connecting with other industries, learning from them, growing with them. 


And if you're not in pharma, talk to people in pharma because you know there's change that can be done. So I think it goes both ways. It's just connecting people across industries would be my kind of takeaway. 


Yeah, absolutely. And I think for me, it's if anything's resonated with you that we've spoken about about pharmageddon. Please join us, get in contact, 23rd, 24th of April. We'd love to have you involved in part of our community in the movement. 


It's going to be a great two days. Fantastic. Can't wait. Thank you, guys. It was so great talking to you. Thank you so much. Thanks, everyone.