Claire Glasgow: When Leaders Choose Not to See

What happens when power goes unchecked — and the people in charge choose not to look too closely?

In this episode of The Whole Leader Podcast, I sit down with Claire Glasgow, a solicitor and director at Fieldfisher who represents individuals harmed by powerful systems — from catastrophic injury cases to survivors of sexual assault taking on some of the UK’s most established institutions.

Claire brings a thoughtful, unvarnished perspective shaped by years of seeing what happens when policies aren’t followed, accountability slips, and leadership stops protecting the people it’s meant to serve.

We explore the real cost of lip-service leadership, the emotional weight of her work, and what it takes to stay self-aware inside systems that often reward the opposite. And underneath all of it is a simple question: how culture is created, and how it unravels.

At its heart, this is a conversation about justice, responsibility, and the choices leaders make every day that shape the cultures people experience.

Transcript

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Welcome to the Whole Leader Podcast, a space for leaders seeking something deeper than success. I'm Richard Britton. After years of building businesses, I found myself looking for something more meaningful than growth alone. This podcast invites you to explore the work of leading in a complex world, with conversations that delve into the inner and outer work of presence, connection, creativity, and human-centered leadership. Thank you for joining.

Today I'm delighted to welcome Claire Glasgow, a solicitor and director at Field Fisher, specializing in serious injury and sexual assault cases. Claire's work is rooted in compassion, advocacy, and accountability, standing alongside people who've been harmed within powerful systems and structures. Through her legal practice and her wider charitable work, she brings sensitivity and determination to help restore dignity and justice for those who need it most. I'm looking forward to exploring with Claire

What her work has taught her about leadership, responsibility, and the possibility of creating systems that put people first. Welcome, Claire. Hello. So, Claire, thanks very much for coming on the podcast. It's great to have you here. maybe you'd you'd like to do an introduction and tell our listeners a little bit more about yourself. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. yeah, so I am a solicitor. I work for a law firm called Field Fisher. I've been there.

For nearly 10 years now. And I specialise in serious injury work and also have a particular kind of niche practice in assisting victims of sexual assault, usually by high profile or very wealthy perpetrators. It's really interesting and rewarding work. And yeah, I'm looking forward to talking about it a bit more. And I'm looking forward to talking to you about it as well.

And I suppose before we get into that, the first thing I wanted to ask you about, you didn't always work in this in this what I'd kind of describe as human-centered work. You actually began working in banking, didn't you? And I'd love to hear that kind of journey for you, how that shift happened from being a banker to doing the the great work that you do today. Yeah, so I guess it started out in that when I left university, I had thought about doing law, but I didn't do a law degree, I did a languages degree.

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And that led me into working for an investment bank, working with clients from Italy and France. Those were languages that I'd studied. And it was, that was very sort of interesting work, you know, intellectually stimulating, working with some great people. But I found that I was not getting the sense that I was using, you know, using my skills and experience in a way that I found personally fulfilling.

So after a couple of years, I reverted to the idea of doing law and did the law conversion course and completed my studies over a couple of years and then was lucky enough to get a training contract at Phil Fisher. Having said that, that Phil Fisher is a firm that does all kinds of work. So corporate commercial technology, a huge range of commercial and corporate specialisms. But within that,

quite unusually there is a personal injury and medical negligence department. And it became quite clear to me when I started my training contract and moved around some of the departments that I really enjoyed working with in you know, ordinary individuals and using my knowledge to help people who had unfortunately found themselves at, you know, probably the lowest ebb of their life. So many people would choose

a profession like law and not get that sort of exposure to you know the the person on the street. And when you did, it became a bit of a calling for you. You you decided that you were going to follow kind of a path less less traveled. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think what I enjoyed about it to start off with, aside from the fact that I felt like I could see the results of my work and an improvement in someone's life.

Also, I'm just quite I'm just naturally quite a curious person and you get a real insight into the lives of all your clients. Everyone comes from a different background, everyone has a different family setup, everyone has different personal circumstances. And it's really important that you get to understand all that as you investigate someone's claim because at the end of the day, you're looking at what was the impact on their pre-accident life. So you've got to understand that fully. And that leads you into

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Yeah, seeing different worlds all the time. I can imagine you see a lot. And certainly I'm looking forward to hearing more about the work that you do and the improvements you look to make in in people's lives. Maybe before we talk about that, we could talk about you've got quite a lot of experience now in the field that that you're in. And you know, you've seen those individuals, those sort of power systems.

And and how they can create harm, you know, really creating some, you know, dreadful outcomes. And can we talk a bit about that? Because I think, you know, our listeners are interested in how leaders can make things better. But I suppose the only way to understand that is about exploring the things that have gone wrong. So how do you feel that that that this harm is coming about? Where where does it where does it all start in companies and with the individuals that that that you're thinking about?

Well, suppose talking about power structures and styles of leadership causing harm, the areas of my work that I see that in most would be people who've suffered accidents at work. and that could be some kind of, you know, catastrophic physical injury, but also the work I do with victims of sexual assault. And I'm currently working with some of the Harid's survivors and

through that work you see what happens when there isn't proper accountability. So it may be that there's poor structures in place, that there's kind of lip service paid to policies and procedures that are there to protect people, but those policies, procedures are not followed or the you know the values that a company says that they may have are not really lived. And that leads to

sort of life-wrecking harm for people. So when a company puts together its its policies for the benefit of its staff, then they should be taking them taking them seriously? Yes, of course. I mean it you need to kind of walk the walk, not just talk the talk. and people are human and obviously no not everybody is perfect, but it it should be more than lip service and it should be more than, you know, just

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policies there to look good because there's a reason the policies are there and that that is to protect people. it's not just window dressing. It is actually there is actually, you know, an important reason behind that. I mean, alternatively, I mean in some cases you find that where somebody's working, you know, working outside in in dangerous conditions, you know, there may not have been, there may not be the policies in place in the first place. And you know, people are just treated pretty shoddily.

So yeah, it's about making sure that you're thinking about what needs to be there to keep your workers and employees safe, putting something appropriate in place and then following it and the leadership actually living that because you can have all the policies, procedures, guidance in place that you like. But if people see leaders who are just flouting that, that sets the tone. So it sounds like there's potentially a

unavoidable conflict if you have people in positions of authority that aren't taking those responsibilities. Maybe that's in a corporate situation where you where there's been an accident for lack of health and safety, or in the example you gave at Harrods where the oversight hasn't been there from the top to keep people safe. How do you see that conflict playing out?

So, I mean, talking about the health and safety perspective of people who are injured at at work, I mean, it really there's not much good that can come out of that happening. people may save costs in the short term, but you know, the potential exposure to a civil case is, you know, it it could be financially enormous with sort of sexual assault cases where there's a very powerful individual who is assaulting women or or men.

Maybe it's less hard less easy to see how you can bring about change. But I mean, certainly once those allegations become public, that's very damaging for any brand or company. And so it's not without, aside from the human downside, there is a kind of commercial issue there. and perhaps that is helpful to think of it in that way in terms of why it's so important to make sure these protections are there. And

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It seems to be almost weekly in the news there's some article and they usually talk about the culture of that business having let things go under the radar in sort of willful neglect in some way. Yeah. Is that something that you observe? Yeah, no, I definitely recognise that. And I mean the problem is is, you know, it's kind of human nature, isn't it? People see who's in charge and they don't

Want to rock the boat because they're worried about their own job or their own progression. And I do think that's something that's quite difficult to change. But seeing these things in the news almost every week and seeing the publicity that comes out and seeing that people are being held accountable, hopefully that is starting to show that, you know, you can't just think about what's my career progression, and I need to stay, you know, close to this person who's acting in such an abusive way, because there can be

enormous downsides to that for you personally as well. Sure. If everything comes out. Yeah, I mean it's it's good that these subjects are getting the media attention that's hopefully starting to create some change. Yeah. And I'm sure you won't have the answer to this, but you may have a perspective. I wonder why so commonly these people end up in those positions where they can take advantage of of others. Is that something that that you've got

An opinion on after seeing it happen time and again? Yeah, I mean it's it's hard to say, but you know, the obviously sort of progressing within a career or within a business world, or you know, elite sport or the film industry or or wherever you see these sort of things happening requires a huge amount of drive and ambition and maybe some kind of ruthlessness. And

when that ends up being combined with a a lack of respect for people around you or a desire to abuse people or take advantage, then I guess that's how you end up having people who are powerful but also taking advantage. Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense. And when people are driven, you know, they're normally driven towards some

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outcome some set of goals and if they're working in a company, then those will be the goals that have been sort of set out for that company. something that's been going through my mind as we've been talking is whether beyond the kind of the KPIs in a business of profitability and growth and so on, if enough emphasis is placed on the kind of performance that is maybe more human centered, how do you how do you make your organization a

great place to work and to I suppose reward people that that that have that kind of human-centered view. I mean the two things aren't mutually exclusive, I mean they're connected because, you know, you're going only going to get those performance indicators if your employees are working, you know, productively and they're happy in their work and they feel motivated. And in order to feel like that,

surely there has to be this kind of a bit more of a human-centered approach in looking at, you know, what drives people, how people feel motivated, how people feel safe. You know, if you've got a working environment where people are afraid, afraid to speak up, it surely is going to follow that their, you know, the performance and the kind of creativity and all the things that make a business great and grow are are going to be somewhat stifled.

Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. And maybe if more more businesses focused on the cultural development and focused on the people aspects, then we would have less situations like the ones that we see so publicly at the moment. Maybe we could move on. I think our listeners would would want to hear about in the work that you do, what

What does justice look like for your for the victims that you represent? For these people that have had, you know, dreadful situations arise and things happen to them. and you can't change any of that, but you can you can help them get justice. So what what does that what does that look like? What does that mean for those people? Yeah, so that's a really good question because of course at the end of the day

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You can't put somebody back where they were, which is what they really want. So, you know, if somebody's had catastrophic injuries in a road traffic accident, that can't be undone. You know, if someone has been raped, that that can't be undone. so it's about trying to get the best possible outcome for those people in terms of getting their life back on track and enabling them to feel that someone has taken.

some accountability for what happened to them. So in any case, that's going to be about making a successful claim. a claim, a civil claim is only about money. And you know, contrary to popular belief, that isn't really the driving force behind it a lot the clients that I work with. It's about accountability and it's about trying to get back some of the things that they've lost, whether that be, you know, not having to be financially out of pocket for the

Things that have happened to them, or getting the treatment that they need to make the best possible recovery. Those things are really important. And, you know, it is really rewarding when you are able to get funds for victims and you can see the real improvements in their life and how they feel that that at least has gone some way towards addressing the catastrophic events that befell them. For these people,

imagine their life goes on hold when these things happen. And so, you know, there's economic consequences to that. Absolutely. And that's the the principal thing that you're that you're helping to rebalance for them. But also, again, this is in the press regularly, when you read about these judgments going in favour of the victims, there seems to be some kind of release or relief that they've been heard and recognized in some way. And I think that's what you're getting at too. Yeah, absolutely.

You know, being being believed and speaking out are really, you know, hugely powerful things. and just like you say, it being able to speak up, having people understand what's happened, and then have some recognition from if something goes to court from the court or if there's a settlement from the other side that, you know, this was a serious and significant thing that has

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had a huge impact on your life and there is a financial consequence to that that the victim shouldn't be left with. Absolutely. It's a a validation in a way that you know, that they've been heard and been listened to. Yeah. And perhaps my next question is if it's okay to to ask is how do you manage to stay hopeful and grounded in the midst of, you know, daily experiencing these situations? Because at the end of the day

Whatever job we do, we're all human and human situations have an impact, don't they? So how how do you manage to stay hopeful whilst you're dealing with this? Yeah, that's that's a good question and one that I get asked quite a lot actually. And I think when you do this kind of work, I mean there is a there is a aspect that you you can't you get used to dealing with horrific incidents. And my way of managing that is

Knowing that what I'm doing is helping to improve the situation in some way. Obviously, ideally, none of these things would ever have happened, but being in a position where you can actually make a difference is it definitely helps to kind of carry you through the work. You know, in terms of being hopeful, I think knowing that you there's practical things that can be done to help, trying not to let this all

reflect your view of the world too much. I mean, clearly these awful things happen, but many people go through their lives without experiencing anything so dreadful. So just keeping kind of balance view. And and within your within your firm, I imagine there's a close knit group of people that that that work in this area. Yeah. And I'm imagining there's a sort of responsibility to be bringing new people into that and and help and help them.

kind of cope with these challenges, but probably you're also learning from people. I'd love to hear more about that. Yeah, so I work in a fantastic team and we all support each other enormously with our work. You know, if you ever felt distressed or or upset by something that you're dealing with, which of course you do from time to time, there's all there's somebody to talk to about it. I mean, I recently attended some trauma training about, you know, the impact of trauma on on people and

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we kind of recognize that dealing with these kinds of things is traumatic and there is probably support that needs to be given. And in terms of my own approach with junior members of staff, I would always check with them that they were happy to come in and work on a case, particularly cases that involve sexual assault. You never know what has been happened in someone's life, what they may have been exposed to. So it's really important to me that people feel comfortable with the work that they're doing. And how far do you think

In your experience, I guess, a company's responsibility goes towards sort of helping people through that work. I'm talking about helping them find practices and assistance so that they can they can work through that stress for themselves. Yeah. I mean, I definitely think it's important that that's recognized if people are finding that the work is draining them or they're finding it personally challenging, that there are

solutions available. You know, I work for a really supportive law firm which offers support in various areas if if needed. And like I say, there's a lot more talk now about vicarious trauma and how dealing with clients who've been through very traumatic events can rub off on you and things that can be done to support people in the team and with that. That sounds very relevant. And I've I've spoken to

various NHS workers who've been obviously involved in the front line of dealing with traumatic situations and then you know, their employer taking responsibility, I suppose, for making sure that they can get access to services to help them at the end of it, because it's it's all about the victim, but it's obviously not not only about the victim. Yeah. I mean, the trauma passes on, doesn't it? So it's not it's nowhere near what any of my clients have experienced, but

But you do take it away. And I mean, sometimes there are particular cases that perhaps they have there's some kind of personal parallel for you somewhere, and those can really kind of cut through. So it's really important that people feel supported and able to talk about it and able to access kind of professional support if they need it. And how do you deal with sort of stress personally? I think I heard that you're that you're getting into I think I heard that you're into running and that you that you let out your stress that way.

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Yes, yeah, no, that's right. So I do I do run. I so I have three children and my youngest is is quite a big runner. So we enjoy running together. And, you know, I do like to do the occasional ten K and things like that. But otherwise, yeah, just spending time with my family, getting outside, running, walking, seeing friends, you know, all those kind of things help to

There's a lot to be said for all of those things. Good times with the family, but also, yeah, getting out into nature and getting fresh air. Yeah. You know, these are the kind of the things that ground us, aren't they? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. so from the things that you have experienced through the work that you do, if you were redesigning the systems and the power structures yourself, how might that look? What would be different to have a more human centered

way of working to protect people from harm more, what what would you do differently? Yeah, it that's quite difficult because I think it's not just about, you know, having a tick list of things to do to have a good workplace and keep people safe. It's really a sort of broader kind of human question in a way, because I think a lot of it is about self-awareness in leaders, a willingness to see the issues.

In yourself and others around you to see the problems and to deal with them. Obviously, there need to be policies and procedures in place that make workers feel supported and like they know where to go and that they're not going to be seen as a problem if they raise an issue.

problem that people quite often experience is that you know they report an issue with a senior member of staff and it ends up being them that kind of pay the price so they are moved or or they are kind of eased out. And all the all the kind of slight gaslighting by victims by senior leaders where they're saying, well, this can't have happened because we've got X, Y, and Z policies in place. Or th there's a kind of closing of ranks at the top, you know, and

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That's obviously all incredibly damaging to somebody who's already suffered trauma, to then on top of that have the lack of support or the the gaslighting or lose their job or or what have you. So I think honesty and self-awareness in leaders is just the importance of that can't be overstated. Is there is there an element of of needing bravery as well? You talked about whistleblowers. Yeah. And whistleblowers.

I imagine are being taken seriously, but also at the same time being dismissed because of other interests. Yeah. Where it would require bravery to reset the course and and you know to take it seriously. Yeah. No, I mean bravery, I mean, it shouldn't you shouldn't need bra bravery, but but you often do. and I've definitely seen examples of that in my work where terrible things have taken place and there have been people who've stood up and and reported and then perhaps left the business or

taken a stand. and that's really commendable. But like I say, what you don't want is the whistleblowers and the victims being the ones who are suffering the bad effects of having made the report in the first place. And that does seem to happen so routinely. There was a a recent TV drama set at well, it wasn't a drama, it was it set in Northamptonshire where there'd been you know, a council that had been working on a site removing toxic waste and driving it through the town and leading to childbirth defects and it seemed to take

twenty years to get any kind of action on that. And throughout it was actually the closing of ranks by the by the people in charge and the victims being sort of demonized that yeah played out in exactly the way you just described. Yeah. I mean the closing of ranks point, you you can protect yourself for so long, but I I like to think that in the end, you know, these things do catch up with people and it's just made all the worse if you've not dealt I mean, if there's a problem, deal with it head on and

It's not just about the problem, it's also about how you deal with it. And you can avoid the fallout, the compounding nature of the fallout by actually just tackling the problem. Because it looks terrible. I mean, all these things look terrible, don't they? When there are press stories about abuse or injuries or or what have you that have then been covered up. I mean, that's often actually what people are more concerned about. Right. And actually as you as you say that, my mind goes to

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So many of these cases and they are historical and they're things that have come out possibly after the protagonists involved are not in the position of power any longer. I suppose the work you're doing with Harrods at the moment is is point and case on that. Yeah. And it's it's sad when that happens. I mean, obviously there have been other cases like around Jimmy Savile or where people have died bef and never taken full accountability. And that's

very distressing for victims to feel that, you know, it takes somebody to die before people are willing to start speaking up. And I mean, I guess it shows the kind of power those people did wield while they were alive. So in redesigning the system, you know, leaders actually thinking through that the calculation may be being slightly different, although you although they may think they're covering up a problem in the short term in the long run.

Probably not. And that therefore acting with more authenticity and bringing more bravery to the situation. Yeah. those are the sorts of things. And it's interesting because they're all points about how individual leaders operate that you know, we talk about culture, we can talk about, you know, the role of the corporation, but this is coming down to what individuals do to make individual decisions every day. Yeah. And that's that's the culture, I think, because you can write down what your culture is, but

The actual culture is what people see. Yes, absolutely. And it's what they experience when they go into go into work every day. And it creates some sort of serious consideration, I suppose, for the people that are putting those teams together at the tops of business, at the top of a business, whether that's, you know, boards making appointments or, you know, directors making appointments, because

It's those people which will set the tone that drives the culture that people see every day. Mm. Mm-hmm. And the positive culture surely then drives performance and satisfaction at work. I think that's right. I think the more people feel like they're empowered to do their job, the more they feel like they are in a, you know, a safe space to do their work, that they can be themselves, and that they're valued.

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That's when the that's when the magic happens. Yeah. and when some of these things that we've been talking about take place actually probably there's a talent drain as well and you the the the people that can will leave those organizations. Yeah. Perhaps Claire you can tell us about your own experiences of leadership and the things that you've experienced that that have been good and the things that have been not so good, so that our listeners get sort of a fresh perspective from you on that. Yeah. So

in my time obviously worked with with a lot of different people. And I suppose some of the things that stand out in terms of good leadership are people who trust you. I mean, clearly you have to sort of earn that trust, but once that trusting relationship has been established, feeling like you are trusted and allowed to work in a way that you find productive

you know, within reason. But I think that's very empowering and that leads you to want to do well to show that you're kind of worthy of that trust, I suppose, that's being put in you. Also where you have leaders who see what what you can do rather than what you can't. And in particular there I'm talking about

Flexible working, which has been a hugely important thing for me, having three children and being on my own, I wouldn't have been able to do the job that I do without flexibility. and that not being seen as a negative thing, but being seen as this is actually enabling this person to do this job, maybe in a slightly different way, but that's okay.

And also bringing people along with you, bringing people on, making people feel like they're not stuck, that they're progressing, and you're you're kind of pulling them through with that rather than having a kind of, you know, shut out approach. Right. So I'd say those particular things I have experienced as as good elements of leadership. And they're really important ones.

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When you talk about job flexibility, equality and one of the things that you talk about in your in your profile is is is women's rights. Equality and opening the workplace up so that everybody can do their best work seems so obvious and so natural and the and the right thing to do.

There seems to be a a shift that's been taking place, probably only even in the last five years. And maybe, maybe, maybe COVID had something to do with that when people were shut out of the offices. Have you seen a change over your working sort of career to date and the in the way remote working and flexible working is is accepted? Absolutely. pre-pandemic, I was a bit of an outlier being someone who who worked from home, you know, not all the time, but every week. COVID obviously changed all of that.

And since returning it it is the norm. You know, we have a three-day in the office rule. So, you know, people are in and out. And I think that is really important for everybody. You don't need to be a working parent. There are all sorts of things that you you may need to do, you know, to have that flexibility to do. I guess sometimes you wonder if it's been really understood because yes, having sort of

Hybrid working is great and it's a real lifeline, I think, for working parents. There is still something about flexibility with that because people's needs change as they go through their career. So you you may have a period as a parent where you need to be at home a bit more, then where you need to be home less. And just being able to kind of ride with that and be genuinely flexible, I think would really help keep a lot more.

working parents in particular women in in the workplace and leaders not being scared of that, like scared that people are somehow going to take advantage. But actually this is a really good way to get the most out of and retain your staff. To retain your talent. Yeah. Because, you know, people's, as you say, needs do change over the course of their life. And I yeah, I guess I rather frame that last question from an equality point of view, women taking time out. But back to the speaking authentically,

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on the whole, maternity leave is a bigger amount of time than paternity leave. Yeah. And therefore creating environments where women can remain empowered in their work in the way that they choose, so that it's not lip service. So that it so that these sort of structures are are thriving and can and can work really effectively is so important. Today it seems like

It's much more normal to be on, you know, a a a Zoom call and see someone's small child wander past the back of the screen. Yeah, you never used to see that. You never used to see that, no. And realizing that we're dealing with whole people with whole lives and everything that goes on around work. Yeah. You're sort of saying is a is an element of leadership that yeah that's that's vital. Yeah. And, you know, you can't really have a one size fits all approach. I mean, I appreciate that, you know, businesses have a need for consistency and

predictability, but you can probably achieve that with the vast bulk of your workforce, but just around the edges, having a bit of real flexibility. And people really appreciate that. I mean, i it that is what keeps you in a job if you feel like the leaders understand that, you know, I have this issue going on right now, they're being flexible and this makes me want to stay. And Yes, I I I couldn't agree more. And

For leaders listening, that's a an excellent piece of advice. How do you get and retain the best talent by offering them the flexibility to do their best work in a setting that works best for them? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Claire, it's been a great conversation. For some of our listeners, they, you know, they may want to get in touch with you. How how would they how would they do that? Well, thanks.

So I my de contact details are on the Phil Fisher website. So you can find telephone and email there. I'm also on LinkedIn. So always happy to connect and chat more about these issues. Claire, thank you for sharing your journey, your insights, and the heart behind your work. It's been powerful to hear how compassion, accountability, and a deep commitment to justice can challenge even the most entrenched systems. I know today's conversation will leave many of us reflecting more deeply.

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on what true leadership and responsibilities look like. Thank you again for being here and for the important work that you do. Thank you.

Thanks for listening to the Whole Leader Podcast. I hope today's conversation gave you something to reflect on, whether in how you lead, how you create, or how you show up. If you found this valuable, feel free to share it and subscribe for more episodes. And if you'd like to keep the dialogue going, you'll find more at Richards.blog or connect with me on LinkedIn. Until next time, stay present, stay curious, and keep leading from the whole of who you are.