Scarlett Allen-Horton: Refusing the Script

Scarlett Allen-Horton’s story cuts against the usual odds — and shows what can happen when someone refuses the script that life hands them. She left home at 16, became a mum at 19, and grew up around other people’s expectations of what she could or couldn’t become. She didn’t buy it. She made the final of The Apprentice, built a successful executive search firm, and has become a voice for leadership that lifts others with it.

In this conversation, we go beyond the CV to explore the experiences that shaped her. We talk about growing up with very little, navigating motherhood while building a career, finding the confidence to be herself, and why the best leaders create environments where people can thrive.

This is about what it takes to keep moving forward, how difficult experiences can shape who we become, and why the way we lead others often begins with the way we understand our own story.

Transcript

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my guest today is someone whose story is as powerful
as it is inspiring
Scarlett Allen Horton is a business leader
entrepreneur and a speaker
who's built success on a foundation of resilience
purpose and grit from leaving home at 16
and becoming a mother when she was young
to reaching the final of The Apprentice
and founding her own executive search firm
she's someone who's defied the odds
while staying true to her values
Scarlett welcome
it's such a pleasure to have you here
thank you what an introduction
do we do it woo
I'm doing my own sound effects
sorry Richard
Scarlett you've walked a remarkable path
thank you um
before we dive into that journey
I'd love to ask what would you say
is the contributional moment that you feel proudest of
oh
just the the
the the one singular moment that I feel the proudest of
um I don't know if I can do one single moment
but the two things that sprung to mind was how I
particularly my oldest daughter actually
how I see her talk now as a young adult
and I think that um
when we're having children
we don't necessarily think when we're having them
about how they'll be as adults
and I sort of watch how she speaks and hopefully
what I've poured into her
and the way she thinks about things
and it makes me it makes me emotional actually
but it makes me extremely proud
it's a really beautiful answer
that's the truth you know um
I think that that
that one and the other singular one was
and it probably sounds a little bit obvious
but it's but it isn't
it isn't
was actually being on the final of The Apprentice
not being on the final which is amazing
I'm very grateful but actually there was um
they do like a video pop afterwards
you know where they're like yeah
how did you find it Scarlett
did you know all of that
and I'd gone and I'd done this pitch
and I was talking about how passionate I am
about having women
sitting in these real decision making roles
and ethnic minorities
sitting in these decision making roles and
and having opportunities for everyone
that's the point and I was
went up and I kind of delivered it
and I sort of saw Lord Sugar and he was going yeah OK
and there was the audience and I thought
I'm so passionate about this
and I remember the guy saying
how'd you feel
and I literally felt like I was speaking for
like the whole of humanity
I was like I feel like
I was speaking for every woman that stood before
wonderful and that wasn't the case
but it it really felt like a defining moment
I think for me in terms of my purpose
yeah yeah
and that's a lot of what I've brought into business
it really does sound like in that moment
you were talking about what mattered the most to you
it really came out I think
a lived experience
and trying to make impact on the back of that
so yeah and maybe um
maybe now we could go right back to the beginning um
and you could
talk to us about what your childhood was like and um
yeah what kind of environment you grew up in
yeah OK
oh I didn't know we were going
we're going way back Richard
um OK
so um
so yeah I was brought up by my mum
um single solo parent
I think it's what the kids call it these days
solo parent household um
and my mum was actually in the care system
so my mum and aunt had been in the care system
so we sort of heard a lot about the care system
actually in a in a favourable way on the whole
so there wasn't any extended family
so
we didn't sort of have grandparents or uncles or aunts
we just had my mum and my aunt and
which was normal to us but I recognise now
that's probably not everybody's growing up
and my mum and an aunt
and my aunt brought up all of us children
and some of which were also fostered
because parents had died along the way
so
I was brought up with myself and my two uncles as well
who my mum fostered
um and they were like 10 and 12 years older
than me um
and then my dad um
wasn't present he was estranged um
he's Pakistani
so there's different kind of cultures that play as well
um and it was a very hard working household
Mum's very hard working a very loving household um
definitely knew there was a scarcity of
of money or money was definitely a big thing
I was definitely aware of that um
but I also knew that I needed to work hard
and I could make things happen
and I definitely had that put into me
and I believed it wholeheartedly as well
and you must have seen your mum
display all sorts of strengths
and overcome all sorts of struggles as well
definitely what did you sort of
what did you learn through that about the
about the strengths that I guess you now bring to to
to life yourself yeah
so I'd never
um let me think
so definitely hard work 100% yes
I always felt like she could overcome anything
and she was very
very strong as she is still is very strong um
but also took no sort of BS
um so she was yeah
definitely brought us up in that way
but she definitely spoken to us like
even though we could see the struggles
I knew that it was possible
like I definitely believed we could go on and be
and do anything now
how we were gonna do that is a bit of a different
sort of scenario but I did believe that yeah
um but what I was
was cheeky
so my cousins was brought up with all my cousins
like brothers and sisters
yeah and a lot of them sort of followed the sister
them a lot more they went on to college
they did well they went to
to unis you know
got great careers super
super proud and we've
you know all done this in very different circumstances
yes you know
difficult circumstances and
but I was cheeky
I was cheeky at home and I was cheeky at school
so you were cheeky and you got yourself into trouble
you're probably outspoken
so
tell us a bit about what school was like then for you
how was your school I love primary school
I was like the what are they called
the house captain and the prefect and all of that
listen I was loving
I was loving primary school
um but senior school um
was OK I didn't love it
if I'm totally honest with you
yeah it was OK yeah
um and
I got to a point where I started calling the teachers
by their first name okay
so so you'd reach
you'd reach a level with them
you can't do that no
but yeah
and um and
and somewhere in amongst all that uh
your ambition must have been sparked at some point
so when when did you
when did you realize that you had this ambition to
to do more and to
to always to go places always from day dark
yeah I definitely
a lot of our childhood was definitely
acutely aware of bills
acutely aware that there wasn't money
for certain things I remember very
very clearly we'd add up
you know I'd add up the shopping list every single week
like I knew the milk was 64 pence
like I'd have the calculator out and we'd add it up
exactly yeah
my mum was excellent with money management actually
but then other members of the family weren't
so I was definitely around different things
yeah but my comparison was always care
and other elements that were going on in the family
so I knew that we um
I knew we had great consistency
and there was love and care
so that was amazing um
but the ambition I
I can speak for me and probably some of my cousins
is there for all of us from day dark
like I remember pitching to the milkman
he was a my cousin's baby sister's husband
right to be his assistant
and I'm still being about 13 really yeah
yeah so I knew that I need to make money
I would like to help my mom
I'd like to help the family
like it's my responsibility
it wasn't my responsibility
of course but I had that sort of within me
and I knew that I could do it
there's something in me that knew
I could absolutely do it yeah
and and I was a competitive swimmer
so I've done a lot of things
a lot of things that I put my mind to
and wasn't necessarily the best
but I know I was very good at
so I started to swim locally in
you know local Birmingham in the city swimming pool
and I was very good so then I got into swimming clubs
I was like oh OK
then I started swimming for the county
then I started swimming with the Youth England girls
yes then I did gymnastics
the same thing then I did synchronised swimming
so I was used to if I could put my mind to it
I could do well but I knew it took that kind of mindset
and that's what I brought then into everything
house and into the workplace
and into the workplace yeah
and it's interesting
cause you'd already mentioned before about
it's the things that we live
and the things that we do that kind of create yeah
experiences um
and doing that sport to a high level
yeah must have given you the confidence to go on and
and think I can
I can I can
yeah I think it's a combination actually
if I'm honest of probably what I'd seen
what I'd been spoken into me
what I'd shown myself
but it was definitely circumstantial as well
because when I you know
I was too cheeky at home and too cheeky at school
and ended up in youth supported accommodation at 16
which is what you referred to
I knew at that point OK
I'm 16 and I I need to outwork my circumstances
and that has been the theme of my life actually
Richard to this point
I'm still of that mindset of almost thinking
I don't know if I can eat
I can't eat you know
and you know
you can't eat then
you know you
you really you are really hungry
that you were really driven
and yeah I say starving
and I mean it not just in the physical sense
but I mean in every single sense
the motivation levels are never higher
yeah yeah
you know and
and when that um
when that occurred and you left home at 16
yeah was that sort of an active decision
or set of decisions that took you to that point
or was it um
was it something that kind of um uh
more came out of the blue when it happened for you
I like to take accountability
I think taking accountability is really important
and I think
I probably just driven my mum past a certain point
and actually I've got teenage daughters now
I can understand it and driven her past a certain point
and she says okay
if you think you could just live your life
and do what you wanna do
off you go then and go and do it
and I'd gotten to that sort of point
so I thought okay
then I'll follow I'll follow go
you know and I
I remember you know
that's how I know my mindset was
so if I look at my daughter now
she's gonna be 18 she'd be like
oh my God mum no
whereas I was like I'm gonna find some IKEA pots
I'm gonna find the money to buy IKEA saucepans
and I was thinking that at 16
how can I get the money for IKEA saucepans
cause I'm gonna have them in my flat and that
that was my honest mindset
you know so it was
it was definitely my actions
and probably my mum being frustrated with me
for sure um
but definitely also driven by me I'd say at that point
um and you know
LED LED to lots of different circumstances
but actually I'm grateful that that has been my journey
cause it's LED me to here
and in those early days in that early time um
you must have been learning lessons about yourself
thick and fast can you remember what any of those were
what you were learning about yourself
that sort of first day after you had left
and then you were realizing
you're gonna have to fend for yourself
and you didn't have anything at all
what sort of things were you learning
through that process um
I was learning that I always knew I was very
very resilient
and I was with my friend at the time
and I couldn't get back in the house
cause I was too late coming home
basically is what happened
and I remember
my mum won't be happy with me telling this story
but I remember
me having little pebbles that were on the road
to me and my friend
and throwing them at the window to say mum
let me in the house
and one of those pebbles smashed the window
right now that was gonna be a nightmare situation
and we had these little shoes on at the time
that were in fashion
and me and my friend ran so fast up the road
the shoes were still on the road
but I also remember walking back down thinking
how can I resolve this
how can I get the money for the window for
for my mum's window which I never did get um
but how can I get it but I also remember thinking
like feeling quite light hearted about it
if I'm honest and thinking OK
so I'm gonna sort this out
and that has been the constant theme
it's like I'm gonna be able to sort this out
I'm gonna work it out I know there's a way
so bringing resilience hmm
knowing that you'll find a way to win in the end
yeah and um try yeah
and then and then
I guess it wasn't long after that
you became a mum when you were 19
yeah um
and that brings a different set of pressures
and expectations as well as the joy that comes with it
yeah how did becoming a parent
sort of change the way you saw yourself and and
and I guess in your your role in life because
you know some of the
not quite so carefree at that point
yeah yeah
yeah so I was pregnant at 19
so I had my eldest daughter at 20 right um
and my second daughter at 23 or 24
I think um
I think because by that point
I'd already been out of home at 16
I felt like an adult I look back now and realize none
not adults at all far from adulthood um
and it was difficult you know
it's difficult I've loved being a mom
I've loved I love being a businesswoman
I love being a mom and I feel like
that's not a conversation that's always discussed
very often I think often I felt anyway
that only now in these more recent years
I feel really comfortable saying that
and I lead with authenticity very much so now um
but my life was completely different
so I had the girls um
had my um
eldest daughter and just loved being a mum
but if anything I knew what the stakes were even higher
cause now not only did I need to be Uber successful
and like the CEO of the world
not that but
you know like that huge ambition
I've now got a child and then another child
responsibility the responsibility was huge and I was
and that perfectionism that I really bring into
I try to bring really into every element of my life
is a huge pressure as well
so I wanna be the best mum
and obviously
some days you're the best mum and some days you're not
right so I wanna be the best mum that I can be
I wanna be present but I also wanna be
you know a beast business or
you know I wanna do really
really well in the world of recruitment
and the combination of those things is very
very difficult yeah
and we lived a pretty private life
you know I lived a very private life and very
very controlling relationship that I was in
for quite a long time and with with
with their father at that point
so we lived
you know we lived a life where curtains were closed
where there wasn't friends
there wasn't necessarily family um
around it was a cocoon
must have felt very isolated
yeah massively isolating yeah
um
and there's lots of different reasons
and some accountability in there for me
as well I think
but there's lots of different reasons for that
but it actually made the bond with me and my daughters
extremely extremely strong cause we had each other
yeah and we gotta work it out
yes
and you have a you know
have a set of very um
clear views on um
motherhood and work together
how do you how do you view how
the way our culture treats working moms today
I think now it's gone a bit better
it's gone a lot better and
you know it's working mums and parents
you know I think it's parents in general
but things have changed I think firstly
leadership has evolved in terms of ages
and just there being more of a balance at home
just culturally
that feels like it's so much more encouraged
just wasn't it was just different right
um but I
I remember going into a big recruitment
my first kind of corporate recruitment workplace
um and I was acutely
aware that my circumstances were completely different
to my peers you know
not only did I look different
I was female I was
you know biracial
was a lot of males
a lot of white males that'd come from uni
great unis got great degrees
I didn't got that
I just come out of you supported accommodation
so I come from what's the only a care system to
to some degree actually yeah
um so I'd come out of that
I'd gone into the world of work
um
and I knew the circumstances were completely different
but I felt I couldn't in any way be my authentic self
because I needed to fit in
so
I certainly couldn't talk about my home circumstances
cause I just thought
that won't enable me to be the best achiever
and they won't they won't like me or I won't fit in
you'll be judged I'll be judged
yeah and I would have been judged
that the plain truth of it is I would have been judged
um
and so
what I did was I just didn't say that I had children
it took a it took over a year for me to say
goodness that I've got
openly be talking about that I've got children
cause I thought they just wouldn't take me seriously
that must have been extremely difficult
yeah trying to
trying to sort of lead two
two lives um
at the same time
and what was it that kept you going at that point
when you were being stretched by the work
and having to have this other self
and at work and then at home as well
um you clearly very driven
what was what was keeping you going
I got to feed my children yeah
you know that is the plain truth of it yeah
I got to feed my children
and I wanna make sure that
you know I had different friends that I was around
and been around for a long time
and we'd had the same circumstances
and I could just see
I understood if I looked at my life
and I'd had lots of support growing up
you know
and I'd seen lots of great things as well around me
but if I looked at my life
I understood statistically what that looked like
and where I was
I understood what kind of statistic I was
and I was avidly determined to change that statistic
I still am and that's why I talk about it
I still am and I also know now it's not just for me
so I need to outwork these circumstances
and I'm made of this stuff and I need to change it
I knew that
I've got these two daughters of mine as well
wonderful women wonderful women of colour
young women of colour yeah
and they're watching my every step
and I want you
not just open those pathways and doors for them
all those opportunities but I wanna lead by example
role model it for them role model it for them yeah
so I knew that I had this
you know not just passion
but responsibility yeah
and on top of that no one's gonna help
no one's gonna help us
if I couldn't feed the children or pay the rent
that that was what it was
and something's happened where that
that role modeling
and taking responsibility to help your own daughters
has become sort of
a mission
to take responsibility for so many more people as well
I think so I think so
and I think it's only when you
I think it's um
is it to kill a Mockingbird
the quote please
I'm mis saying it here but something along the lines of
until you've been in the skin of someone
the fabric of someone's skin
and you kind of moved around in it a little bit
you just don't understand
and that's what I always think
I always think you know
we only understand our own journeys
you understand your journey
I couldn't really understand it to a degree
and vice versa
we can have compassion and understand each other
to a degree but you just
not until we've been in the fabric of
and I think because I'd had two lives
I think you touched on that so beautifully actually
there's this life of you know
young mum you know
their father and ends up going to prison
so we've got all of police
criminal things going on that had nothing to do with me
but all that's going on in the background
and I'm thinking oh
my gosh you know very very
very controlling relationships
I'm trying to understand that
I'm trying to navigate my way out of that
want the best for my children
all of these things and then high
high high achiever at work
and the two don't normally correlate
and that's why I'm really passionate about
talking about it and saying no
no no
if you can cook trust me
you can come from that
but you can absolutely do this because that's my story
and the story that I'm hearing
sounds like one that must have created
an extra layer of stress for you
at a time which was really
really difficult hmm
with your partner going to prison um
and you were sort of trying to keep up appearances
that's that's an extra
on top of the stress of being
you know a
a a mum on your own again and the difficulties in your
in your in your relationship
and everything that was happening there
to be going to work and appearing to be
you know everything's fine is another layer of stress
um
so you're sort of
taking the situation that lots of people have
of trying to juggle a home life um
and a work life to an entirely new level
it's a different stress sphere
yeah it's a different stress sphere
and you're trying to understand it
and this is where I think for me
even the inclusion comes into it
and the belonging comes into it
cause I'm understanding OK
these are my circumstances
how do I change those OK
I'm different here but how do I excel here
how can I use that as a strength
how can I use that to stand out
but then
I'm also trying to understand what's happened there
and I can see a system that's failed
in my opinion actually
you know my
my children's dad as well
yeah and I can see judgment there
that's brought on a different element of the system
so I'm looking at the whole thing and thinking
there's got to be change here yeah
there's got to be accountability yeah
but there's got to be change and how
how how can I do that you know
and I've got all of this going on
what first
I'm also passionate about business
you know I wanna work at how do I make money
how do I drive revenue how do I build impact
then that comes later because of
because of the experience that I've had
yeah yeah
and we'll definitely come to that
yeah looking forward to hearing all about that
I suppose I'll um
from what you just said
I'd like to ask what you learnt about
so society and leadership at that point
you were talking about being failed by society
and lots of leaders in lots of different places
um what
what did you learn from that
two two probably different extremes actually
so I was um
in sort of my first not recruitment job
but I did a like a call centre job
and I ended up being the top performer
so
I ended up getting a management secondment there at 19
right and I took over the team that I had been on
well a lot of those people had been there for years
and years and some of them were 50 years older than me
so that is a real launch into leadership
sure it certainly is
that's what it really really was
but what I
what I also found out was that I was pregnant
so I thought at that time right OK
I've got this amazing opportunity
I'm already again
different in a different way
I've got to do really really well now I'm pregnant
oh my gosh I don't
I'm not gonna tell anybody
and I wait till I was six months pregnant
in hindsight that's not the way
but I wait till I was six months pregnant
to tell my boss at the time
and I thought I'm gonna have to tell him
because at this point you can kind of see
and he's gonna need to bring somebody in and uh
so um and that's what I did
and it was received so positively that I thought
why had I been carrying that weight and pressure
where would that come from
I just didn't feel that that would be a positive news
and it was
so I had that experience
then I also had a different experience um
I was working at this at my
a wonderful
I have to say big global recruitment business
lot of years had a lot of opportunity there
opened up lots of divisions
launched Ed and I stuff and women in business programs
and all sorts of amazing things um
but I also asked for flexible working
so I'd learnt what this thing was called
flexible working
and I'd already been there for about three
or four years already
you know top performer year on year and I thought right
OK I really wanna do a school run on the Friday
with my daughters like that's what I really wanna do
and my mum was wonderful
taking them back and forth to school
for me I've
I've I've really
you know it's always about the girls
always about the girls and um
I put in this flexible working application
and they'd never had one before
right that
that doesn't surprise me but um
it's yeah
they've never had one before
yeah and that's
you know and that's not
that's just
that's just wasn't the dynamic of the workplace
I'm sure that's completely changed now
but they'd never had one
so they didn't really know what to do with it
so like oh OK
no problem yeah
we'll we'll look at it
so and end up going back and forth
back and forth and six weeks later
um I remember the director's time again
a great guy and he was like
I'm really pleased Scarlett yes
we're happy to approve it
so I was like oh my gosh amazing
what does that mean and it meant that I could um
have a lunch break for 30 minutes on a Friday
yeah right
instead of an hour and I knew at that point
yeah and it was
it's actually from naivety
it's not from a place of not trying to help
and that's why it's so important that different voices
and different experiences are present
yeah um
and I thought at that point
no I've got
I can't I've got a mate change
and that's what LED me actually to set up the business
so it's it's all been super
super positive yeah
but those are the things that have kind of
shaped my experience
my experience of motherhood in the workplace
or parenthood in the workplace
yeah and you're part of making that change happen
thank you and it does sound like a real
a real journey so before we move on to
I suppose where your career went next
yeah maybe if
if you think back to that younger self of yours
doing those jobs and um
the sort of experiences that you were having
what might you have said now to yourself then um
which you didn't know at the time
keep going yeah
keep on keep going
yeah keep going
cause I couldn't imagine I did
I always have big visions
and I always felt like anything was possible
but I I
I don't know I could have genuinely imagined
that I'd be doing the things I'm doing now
even sitting on this podcast speaking to you
when I cause as we're talking
I'm flashing back to different things
cause we're talking about things from a long time ago
you know when I'm flashing back to my
you supported accommodation flat
I I just
I don't know that I believe
I don't know that
I understood the opportunities that were possible
because if you don't see something
this is why the milk round was really good
and I say this to my daughters
doing that milk round enabled me to
see
some houses that were only 20 minute drive up the road
I didn't realize people lived like that Annie
I'm actually going to a a party there this Saturday
funny enough same area
we could live there if we wanted to
and it enabled me to see it
and I remember going down with the milk
you know
it's 3 o'clock in the morning with the milkman
putting the milk at the doors thinking
I'm gonna have a house like this
I am gonna have a house like this when I'm older
I didn't realize that even existed in England
or in Birmingham
I didn't realize but it does sometimes it's
it's seeing things from a new perspective
and being able to reframe things that just um
it's important to us all isn't it
because you can get very stuck in one place
and not understand
other other destinations
other ways of doing things um
which will be a neat point of conversation
when we're talking about Ed and I
in a in a in a little bit
so then there was a sort of
I suppose a turning point for you
and I'm talking about The Apprentice
yeah when you first applied to do that
you know at that point
you'd have had no
idea that you were gonna get to the final and um
and and that was gonna be a launchpad for you
in the way that it was but what
what was it that you were
what were you looking for
what were you seeking
what was the exposure you were trying to get
um you know um
what sort of change were you trying to
try to bring about through
through that process
honestly probably none
there was probably no exposure I was trying to get
right I lived a really private life
you know I'd come
we'd come out of the houses with the
with the that now we're having windows that are open
you know I've still got like two friends yeah
you know super private
wouldn't speak to really very many people outside
if I unless I know you very
very private
unless it's to do with my children or work or my mum
that was it um
for a long time up until probably 10 years ago
so it's a real change yeah
yeah absolutely
absolutely and I applied for the apprentice um
probably now about five years ago
maybe five and a half six years ago
it could be now but about five years ago
and what the reason and why really was I
by that point I'd got the business
I'd got Harper Fox Partners
so I'd launched that it was going well
it was me and one other
and my mum did some hours for us
you know she was the first employee
as it were um
and I was sitting late at my kitchen table working
and it was coming towards 11:00
and I had the TV on in the background
and the girls were in bed
and I saw Lord Sugar come on the TV and say
you know apply now
you know with the with the hand
with the pointy finger with the hand
yeah and I'd of course
watched it over the years and looked at like
Sadi and tear minor and thought
oh my gosh yeah
you know always had this raging ambition and was like
oh my gosh and then of course
it was you can be my next business partner
and it just clicked and I thought
I've got a business
like for the first time I thought I've got a business
and then I thought and I can
I'm not no one's gonna tell me not to do this
I can't do it no
I was used to so many restrictions and so much control
and I can do it so I thought
oh this will be fun
why don't I just apply
and just see if I can get to the next round yeah
there was no more thought than that genuinely
and I applied literally quick online form
you know it's 10 minutes
it was the closing deadline was 11
just did it and whizzed it off
and I got to the next round
I thought that that's brilliant
you know I'm gonna go to the next round in Birmingham
this is just good
I was just thinking this is good to build my confidence
that's what I was thinking
I was coming from a place of like decimated confidence
but knew I was very good at work
and knew I was a good mum
but me personally if you ask me much about Scarlett
wouldn't have been able to tell you
you had a hard time and and
and yeah and this was an opportunity for you just to
try something different
try and build my by build my confidence
and that probably is surprising almost people
they're like what
but that is
I think when you're in controlling relationships
you lose your sense of self
you just don't even know what food you like
like that is
to that kind of degree is what I'm talking
so it's like oh
so it was literally just a building process
so I just thought oh okay
that's amazing I'm gonna go
and I went in there
and then I got through the next round
and I got through the next round
and I got through the next round
I kept thinking gosh
you know and I've never even left my children overnight
so I wasn't thinking
I was gonna be leaving my children
for a number of weeks which is what it was
and I got through to the end and they said yeah
Scarlett we'd um
we'd really like you to come on the show
but we don't know if you can
because of your circumstances
we don't want there to be any issues
so we're
gonna need to get permission from your ex partner's
my children's dad's Parole
and make sure that everything's gonna be okay
if you was kind of come out openly
and at that point
I just thought I still might not be able to
to do something again again yeah
it does still impacts
and it all came back absolutely fine
and he was supportive which was wonderful
and it all came back absolutely fine
but I didn't know
until a few days of being able to go in there
so I haven't had the weeks of preparation that
maybe some of the other candidates had
you know they were in what dresses to put on yeah
I'm thinking I don't even know if I can
I can do it and then
I've got to make sure I've got money for the children
whilst the business is running
all the normal stuff right
so all of the stuff you talked about before
yeah when you were a working mum
trying to hold down a complicated home life
yeah and
and be a top performer at work
was sort of coming back to you again
here was back yeah
and now I'm thinking to myself
my worlds are about to collide
yeah cause I'm used to being Scarlet in the workplace
you know get my head down do well
smiling lovely you know
but like that well
now my personal life's about to come out
and I've got a business as well
so how and I've got children to consider in their lives
they're at school their friends
so there's a lot to consider
you know
but ultimately what happened was they were like no
we're we're happy to continue forward
and I'm I've
I have very strong faith and I just thought
if I've been given this opportunity
it's for a reason and I'm gonna take it
and I think the combination
had I have just put it on the table
without those elements at play
I don't maybe I would have taken it
maybe I wouldn't I couldn't tell you truthfully
I might have said no
it might have been too overwhelming for me
I had no social media I had nothing like that at all
all of that has changed in the last five years um
so it's been a real change and I'm very grateful
the most thing I'm most grateful for
aside from the investment and aside from the platform
and to talk about the things I'm passionate about
which I'm very grateful yeah
is actually that I can talk very authentically
and that is a beautiful thing
because it did all come out
so then well
here I am now and we talk and we stand in it
and that is really powerful for me personally
amazing story um
and and I'm glad you got to the
to the the topic of authenticity
because that's obviously important in
in the work that you do
but as you were telling that story
you could
hear different pieces of your life coming together and
um
and then there was there was basically nowhere to go
because you're on TV now
and all of those bits come together
and you talk about authenticity and
you know not having to have this full self at work
versus being a parent and so that was
that was um
put upon you in that process really
it was um
can you tell me just a little bit about that kind of
learning experience when you're on the apprentice
and all of those things were coming together
all at once
yeah it was very overwhelming
and I think because I had
and don't get me wrong the apprentice is really hard
like I would encourage anyone to go on The Apprentice
but honestly you're up from three in the morning
you still work until 10 at night
it is crazy pressure
three in the morning till 10 at night
honestly crazy pressure
you know the cameras are coming into the room
like it is a long long
long days it's
it's a hard show you've got
you don't know what time it is
you don't know what day it is
you don't know what date it is
you don't know what location you are
so that's why people can sometimes come across like huh
as if they don't know that
when you haven't got a watch on
you haven't got a phone and you can't
you don't even know what day it is
you do come out with some silly things
like that's the reality
so I have full respect for anyone that's done the show
yeah it's a hard show
but that said for me
of course now my kind of high functioning self
I'm lashing up every task
I'm loving it next task oh my gosh
yep yep yep
I'll lead I'll do this
I'll do this I'm loving it
and what I noticed around me was
that some of the other candidates um
of of whom I have full respect for are
you know upset
or really kind of
breaking down in parts of the process
and compared to the life that I'd lived
if I'm totally honest I thought I've
I've my children are being looked after by my mum
for the first time
I've not got children that I'm constantly looking after
and I've not got a cook or clean
cause the food's being provided and clean
and yeah that's these long days
but I was used to long days
I just got to look after myself
and I thought this is so like
easy in comparison
to the things that I'm used to juggling
you know and that's not I think I realized my learn was
and there was loads of hard lessons as well
but my learn was oh wow
I'm really made very resiliently
more than I actually realized that I was
because if you're gonna be tested
it's in a process like that yeah
absolutely and you can see it on the TV
you know
you and everyone else on those programs gets thoroughly
thoroughly tested
there's almost something philosophical in what you're
talking about there which is that
you know all of the
good things that can come out of the work we do
in the lives that we have
have that backdrop of maybe some negative things
that create the person
that makes the positive things possible
got to yeah
I've really realized that when I'm doing my speaking
yeah I've realized you have you
I don't want anything bad to happen to anyone
but there is a story there has to be a story
if you look at the story in the fabric of your life
it if it's just positive like that
quite honestly or just like that
you're probably in a very comfortable zone
it's probably comfortable
it's too comfortable maybe
but you need to have the bad things happen
or the learns happen or you fail at certain things
small things and big things
all of them things have to be welcomed as well
cause that's part of the story
and that is what shapes you
that's what shapes you as a human being
and you know
the human experience is sticky and it's messy
and it's amazing
and it's wonderful and it's loving and it's awful
it's all of those things we are human beings
and that's the difference between AI and us
isn't it as it stands anyway
so for now for now
we'll see what's like in six months time but six weeks
you're right and you put it put it so well there um
I've got one more question about The Apprentice yeah
yeah because it's um
it's very individualistic kind of show
and it's looking for you know
an apprentice and and that's going to kind of
make everybody work for themselves
but there are elements to it
where you've got to work as a team yeah
um and that
that's very true in the work that we do in in business
it's the relations between people that make
make great things happen
what did you learn about working with other people
um through
through doing that show
where there's really only one prize
and one of you is gonna win
but the way to get there is through cooperation
that's that's an unusual one um yeah
what did you learn yeah
um
it is I Learned um
I Learned a few things
so I Learned that people sort of do have issue
like
everybody's got their own things they're dealing with
yeah
everyone's got their own things they're dealing with
and I think when you start to understand that
you're able to connect
and that's why I try and come in
with some of my walls down now
I'm I'm quite open
cause it enables you to connect at a different level
very very quickly
and I saw that and I noticed that on the show
and I saw that I was able to do that
and other people were able to do that
and those were the strong relationships
you know yeah
um I also feel if you're just thinking about yourself
in business and in life in general
it's very hard to succeed
you know but actually if you think about yeah
yourself you know
there has to be an element of that
but you're trying to bring the people with you
and you're thinking about how it impacts others
as well then as a collective there is a win there
and I saw that task upon task
actually in The Apprentice
but I've seen it in business as well yes
yeah and
did you see different levels of readiness to engage
on that kind of more connected level
um yeah
and I saw also you know
everyone's got different tactics so you're there
but you've also got other people with different tactics
you know but something I
I really noticed about myself
was that a lot of people can be quite in
in the show and maybe in general
but quite like chummy quite pal
I don't have that desire in me
I'm very happy to sort of stand alone so I'll be polite
I'll be nice if you talk to me
I'm happy to have a chat with you
but I don't feel I need to be your friend
you know and actually
I think there's a strength in that because I'm
I'm I'm comfortable being on my own
you know maybe that's a trust thing as well yeah
actually where I found a learn for me is this
letting people in and getting close
that has been more than learn for me
that's probably my background as well
but you said before the show
you would have really not been spending
time with people outside of a very
small community of families
so that was a big shift and one that uh
I guess has carried on and only grown because um
if Harper Fox was a startup before The Apprentice
you know it's not anymore and uh
and you've really taken it really taken it forward
Scarlet and you know
built something great and you talk about
launching and building an EDI business yeah
and I think we've already heard a lot about the kind of
the driving force and the reasons for that
you know on every level
there's been personal
personal elements and very authentic reasons for
for doing that
what do you what do you see now in terms of you know
you're in that position where it's executive search
you're looking for leaders
the leaders of the future
very often who are gonna create the world that uh
you know the next generation are are living in
how
do you think about the kind of leadership that we need
in business today
I feel it is all about connection
I genuinely do I think it's how do you
how do I how does the individual get the people
motivate the people to go and walk with us
you know to walk with the leader
and often that's from respect
I think it's from compassionate connection
I really do believe that
and I personally really believe it's about authenticity
and I I wanna say this and I wanna caveat that we
maybe you don't need to bring your whole
full self to work
and we might need to know everything about you
that might not be appropriate
or might not be what you wanna do
that's OK but it's about being genuine and authentic
and I really see I've seen that turn
and I really feel that is the way forward
with that
does that bring the need for some vulnerability as well
I believe so I believe so
and maybe that vulnerability is
sharing something personal
which again
may or may not be appropriate or what people wanna do
but that actually might be vulnerability
around feedback that might be
vulnerability around your own ideas and strategic plan
you know and actually really saying
this is what I believe we should do
what what are your thoughts
how can you contribute to this
you know I've been open to that
cause I've also come and I'm sure you have as well
come from a place where this is what it is
and this is what I said right
and I think them days have gone
I think those days have gone
and it's a learning experience
and if I look back to my own way of leading
in the past
I'd have been just as guilty as the next person
of saying right
here I am with my confident plan
and we're all gonna do this
and we're all gonna be successful
and not actually betraying that
I'd no real certainty to that and um
creates more stress for the individual doing that
and this is my experience
and a lot less buying from other people
an ego maybe is ego part of that
I don't know of course it is yeah
ego is a big part of it and you know
we all have things that happen
I hope opportunities in life
which start to help us kind of dial down the ego
we have realizations and um yeah
and um so that's part of the interesting thing isn't it
not everybody is in the same mindset
to be more vulnerable
to be open to a connection as others
and actually
the way leadership is often role modeled in the world
at the moment you know
vulnerability is seen as a bad thing isn't it still
yeah yeah
I I I don't believe that
I think vulnerability is the root
and the heart to kind of everything
catchley and opening up everything
even looking at the vulnerable parts of the business
we just call them risks so it's
you know it's
it's all of those kind of conversations
but you know there is a
there is a balance of that and I
and I understand that as well
yeah yeah
of course of course
um and so we're talking about this a little
a little bit before we before we got uh
got to recording you take a word like um
inclusion at the moment it's become a bit of a buzzword
which then makes it actually harder to get to the
the essence of what you're trying to communicate
and what you're trying to promote
um how do you think leaders should engage with Ed and I
given given that difficulty
I think authentically yeah
authentically there is so many environments that I mean
that talk about easy I talk about inclusion
and there's no real interest in those areas
and for others the opposite is true
but I actually and it goes back to how
we're just talking about leadership
and that's that's
that's really important
it's how do we create a sense of belonging
the only way we can do that is
maybe to understand other people's stories alright
and we never walk goes back to the fabric of the skin
you never gonna necessarily be inside their skin
and really understand it but there's an
there's an element of understanding
by just having the conversations
and in doing so it makes you think and check yourself
I have to check myself on many occasions as well
you know I've come from a very working class background
I might be around in rooms
where people are really well spoken
I've had to check my bias and I'm judging them
I've no idea around their background
and their experiences and I'm just assuming oh
they've had a different experience to me
so it it goes both ways in all different ways
it really really does
but I think the the true sort of belonging
or the ED9 inclusion piece comes from understanding
and that is in understanding your people yeah
I think there's a lesson for everybody
in what you just said um
and so there's the understanding there
um and then
you know I believe that there are some
you know definite kind of old fashioned
bottom line benefits to having a more diverse workforce
where you bring different ways of thinking to
to the conversation
especially as the world's getting more complicated
the problems are harder to solve right
yeah they are yeah
you are you need those different voices
and I just different perspectives yeah
that's what's important different perspectives
and in bringing
so you're bringing different schools of thought
yeah and you're bringing different solutions
and that's what business is
I don't know if you find it
it's constantly working out what's the next solution
what's the next solution how do I
how do I overcome this problem
because there's constant problems
and if you enjoy that
you'll be very successful in business
and that's where you need lots of different solutions
and ideas at the table
and that comes back down to the workforce
yeah and it seems like the sort of thing that's
so easy for people to get their heads around
let's say in a sporting scenario where you say oh
this team's got a special sprint coach
this football team's got a special sprinting coach
who's an ex athlete and
and they got a kicking coaches
come from American football or something
yeah and
and yet you try and bring that into
into business people go well
they haven't worked in my sector before yeah
yeah that is absolutely a wonderful example
yeah and it's the truth
it's like yeah
they haven't worked in your sector before
but they've done something mighty amazing
go over there in a different sector that actually
why on earth aren't we thinking about that
in this sector yeah
so where you are now Scarlett
I mean you've worked with lots and lots of leaders
both publicly and and behind the scenes
what have you learnt about leadership
from those mentors that you've been working with
the first word that pops into my mind
as you were asking asking that question was brave
mm hmm it's very brave to lead anything actually
to stand up and be a leader of a business
to lead the project at work
to lead
I don't know organizing the podcast
quite honestly it's brave
and for that reason that
I have full
respect for anyone that's stepping into any sort of
leadership type role
um and I think it favours the brave
so what I've learnt about leadership as a whole
ah it's a big question
it's a big big question
but you definitely gotta be a people person
you gotta be really interested in your people
yeah because in being interested in your people
and getting the best out of your people
you will then have a successful business
it is all about the people
as well as the business opportunity and
and
what would you say to those people who are attractive
attracted to leadership because they like the
the power side of it and they like being in charge
but maybe don't like the people so much and don't
don't worry about the things you're talking about
I would say they're not my kind of leaders
but what I will say is that
if we look at
some of the most successful businesses in the world
and some of the most successful political powers
the reality is they are exactly that
they are interested in power
and they are interested in control
and
I think that will always be an element of leadership
and leaders as well there is a truth to that
you know you look at the psychology around it
there are there really
really is it's not my kind of leader though
no and you will find your people yeah
so
and perhaps those kind of leaders are yeah
if that what they're seeking is power for themselves
and their own outcomes
then
they're not gonna be getting the best for everybody
else um
and so there's a bit of a
responsibility for the other leaders to yeah
show what good looks like be even better yeah yeah
I totally agree be even better yeah
so you've talked about how
what did how was the word you used at the start
you're cheeky yes
and you very I'm very cheeky answering
answering the teacher back
I'm sure yeah
um and so you're gonna have a perspective on
on this
maybe it's stuff we sort of touched on a little bit
you know what do you see as being broken in the systems
that we've got today if you sort of
if you're if you're giving your your
your cheeky feedback on the way the country's run
and the and
and um
not gonna ask you to be political by the way
but um
things that uh
that that need a bit of a bit of a kick to
make the changes in society that you're looking for
that is a very big question
I actually think it does
touch on some of the things we've talked about
which is collaboration
and all looking at the same outcome
I feel like what can happen
both politically
and just in sort of societal landscape
is everybody's looking at different outcomes
but what I can never understand is
why can't we all work together yeah
to understand the best solution for this problem
how do we work together there's so much
you know back and forth
back and forth the time
the energy and the money quite honestly
is often spent in that back and forth yeah
rather than focusing on the
out the best outcome for everybody yeah
so collaboration yeah
would really be the theme of it for me
how can we collaboratively focus on the end goal
what is the North Star
and how can we collaboratively get there
and get the best people's advice
support and wisdom whatever sector they come from
or whatever background they have to
to come together
and really understand that and drive it forwards
I think that's a great answer
thank you thank you
are you gonna do it Richard
are you gonna lead it the change
well
I think we've all got to do a little bit every day yeah
and it takes a it takes a whole community
doesn't it yeah
so Harper Fox is um
an exciting chapter that you're
in the middle of right now yeah
what does success mean to you now
versus what it meant to you earlier in life
do you know I speak to my wonderful partner about this
my wonderful partner and um
I thought success Harper Fox just had his 7th birthday
so that's very exciting congratulations
thank you so much um
and I thought success was completely revenue driven
and it is to some degree actually
but completely revenue driven um
you know it's this
it's probably scarce to mindset that I've had
constantly how can I get
how can I get the house how can I get the
make sure the girls are OK
how can I make sure the business is successful
and I'm starting to look at that
and reframe that a little bit actually
and right there's an element of that
but I'm very interested in is
how do we really make a positive impact
mm hmm um
how do I make personally
a positive impact on the communities around me
how do I do that is it less
to some degree
about the millions of revenue target that we've got
um and
is it more about the millions of lives
that we'd like to inspire
and impact as well
yes and I think it's a combination
and I've really looking at that
and then the other element and
you know I've
I say this to my friends sometimes is
and you may be able to relate to this
the fatigued founder is very real
you know yes
being a founder being a
you know in senior positions in business
the long long working days
the pressure that that comes with is excessive
and there is a part of me
more recently that's questioned
how much am I also living
and success looks like to me
probably at times not always
but at times
having a bit more of a better balance with my family
and
versus everything
constantly being about pouring into the business
and the business goals and the business aims
so it's something that I'm looking at now
and I think that might come with a bit of maturity
and as I'm getting a little bit older as well
and as my children are getting older
yeah you got a
a near 18 year old on your hands
yes you're all of a sudden thinking
oh
OK I kind of done that part then yeah
I know there's another part to come
of course but that alright OK
this is a different partner
yeah so what does that look like
what do you think if you don't mind me asking okay
no I'll give you my
I'll give you my thoughts in no particular
no particular order
I'd sort of respond to you first if that's alright
um I think on that first bit about um
being all about revenue or all about purpose
and it's a blend of the two
and I think probably I Learned some of this from
you know from
from our conversations but the more
there's purpose embedded
in the fabric of what you're doing
yep by
by doing by doing the right things
kind of good things can happen for the business
you know we talk about it as um
companies having the right
mission and the right values and
you know abstract it to the point of a few words that
that everyone's a bit bored of hearing now
but the truth is if you're doing something that
that kind of gets people's kind of energy going
then they're gonna work harder for it
and they're gonna do more and
you know
and if that's if that's contributing back to society
then um then it's bound to do that isn't it
wholeheartedly agree I actually think
that's the way that the workplace is going yeah
you know I've seen candidates reject higher salaries
because they're more
embedded in the culture of a business
or what the business is trying to achieve
or is achieving
and it being that purpose LED or impactful work
I've seen that happen in my day today yeah
yeah and I see that because um
as you know I'm in software
I've worked in software for a long time
the current software business is a cleantech one
and it's about decarbonization
and we attract great people
real talent
who are really energized about the project that we're
that we're doing and so
you kind of see those things coming together a bit I
you know I've been a chief executive for my sins
quite a long time
not always in the same same company um
and grown businesses and I
have probably
shifted in terms of what success is for me
which was probably quite command and control and so
yeah being in charge was
was was nice for its own sake
um
this is personal success you know
being in charge and and
and and and
and doing a good job of making the business a success
of course whereas now
I get a lot more out of working with great people
helping other people reach their potential um
feeling the strong positive vibe
you get in a room of people that are all
pulling in the same direction
and want the same things and um
because
and this might just be an age thing that
you know mature
emotional maturity yeah
maturity yeah
um you kind of realize that
the destination is just at one point in the future
but there's lots of other points that are happening
right now so make the most of those
and that's where the connection and
you know um
I was chatting to somebody recently who um
who said we all take ourselves far too seriously
just have more fun with life
and this was a very very successful
that's a that's a founder of businessman yeah
yeah but the sort of
the success came out of kind of having more
having more fun with it and in fact one um I
I shan't name them um
big one of the world's biggest software companies
at the heart of their values
they've got something called putting fun in the middle
they've got fun in the middle yeah
yeah I totally agree
with that I totally agree and you know
something that my daughter said to me
my little my youngest daughter the other day um
she got her numbers con confused yeah
so she was she meant to say
I don't know 20
35 or imagine what it's gonna be like in 20
35 but she said 30 yeah 25
and we both sat there and realized
that's in 1,000 years and then
we both realized that
not only will we have passed away
everybody we know would have died and you know what
it was a real it sounds a bit morbid
but it was a real moment of oh
you should definitely have an attitude of
I'm gonna do it yeah
you know let's have fun whilst doing it yeah
because actually yeah
we're all here we are let's do it
you know this is our opportunity yeah
that's right this is our opportunity
this is our opportunity I totally agree with you yeah
and Scarlett
some of your work now is about public speaking
and getting your message out to to
to others
talking about your story and the work that you do
and when you're speaking to audiences well
all over really um
you you do speak to young people um
I'd love to hear what your message is to young people
and um
people that want to make a difference
and they don't know how to start
the key message that I always say probably
cause I'm still saying it to myself as well
is if you can't
you must and I think I said this to you before
so if you feel that you can't
it's not possible for you or you like
oh I'm not very good at that
then that's even more reason why you must do that
and it's the truth and if that means that you
become the best in the world
at it well how fantastic
thank goodness you did it
or if that means you realize I'm not good at that
so I'm gonna try this now and I'm gonna do this next
and it's LED to the next things
then how wonderful as well so if you can't
you must
and what do you say to someone
maybe who comes from a difficult background themselves
and um
hasn't had the opportunities
and probably doubts whether they can break through that
that is me yeah
that was me that is me
that is all around me that's all I understand yeah
and I would say to you
I'm taking this quote from my partner as well
but and he said it to me yeah
what makes you different is what makes you stand out
so really
really take your differences and make them stand out
and actually I would challenge that person and say
you have even more of a responsibility
because not only do you need to make those changes
and you deserve to make those changes for you
there's so many others
around you that are gonna be impacted
and positively impacted
and inspired by what you're doing
so you have a responsibility to do it for you
and for those around you as well
so what you've been doing has become a
a real demonstration of success that those people
those people can learn from
cause then you believe you can do it yeah
if you think oh
she did it she had that she had that circumstance gosh
oh it's not possible for me I was that person yeah
and then you're like no
I can do it if she did
of course I can do it I'm I'm gonna do it even better
yeah how wonderful yeah
how wonderful yeah absolutely
so day to day then
being that change being the agent of change
what what does that look like
trying I try I'm just trying to be me yeah
I'm trying to be me and I go with my gut
I go with my gut on 99% of things actually
and I kind of moved with that and like I said
I I really have strong faith as well and for me
I just stand in
the things that I feel really passionate about
and I almost feel like I can't not say it
and I think
because I spent a lot of my life being silent
and being quiet about things
I know what a luxury it is to use your voice
and there is such power in your voice
and I've seen it first hand
and I know it deep inside me
so I use my voice
and I operate in the way that
the things that I would like to see
the way that I would like to be treated
or what I needed maybe 10 years ago
five years ago 20 years ago
that's how I lead
and it will be for some people and not for others
and that's okay too'cause you're not for everybody
yeah something deeply instinctive
about taking the things that
you know are right for you as a leader
and doing them yeah
yeah and I was having this conversation with somebody
this morning
about how the data and the analysis is important
and yes
it has a place in leadership and to make your decisions
but ultimately it's not everything if
if you have a a bit of a feeling about something
don't ignore it definitely yeah
definitely that is your
that is your intuition that is your guts
you know absolutely
I got to lean into that as well
and I'm all for the data too
I am but there's an element of that
and it's really powerful and it's really important
and again that's what makes us the human being
it makes us a being in the human yeah
and it and it raises um
all sorts of interesting questions about um
with artificial intelligence
and is that an opportunity for
people to rely more on our intuition
when some of the the
the data and analytics work is uh
is now available you know
on tap I think a combination of the two yeah
I'm the first person to be asking AI a question
yeah and asking it to challenge my thoughts around this
you know or get advice on this
but I absolutely balance that with how I feel inside
and what I feel is right cause I know
and this is the most strongest thing I know now
if I fail it's fine
it's only still bringing me a step closer yes
that I never thought to be the case
I know there's lots that can be counting on that
sometimes business shareholders employees
so it's easier way easier said than done
but I know it's bringing me a step closer
because my journey has taught me that yes
and so then sort of on to you a bit more Scarlett
and I was gonna say you know
well they say it's lonely being at the top
and you carry so much for your business
and for your family how do you
how do you take care of yourself
yeah haha
I don't know Richard haha
do you know um
I've that it's something I need to work on more
mm hmm it's something I need to work on more
yeah that is the truth
and I think um
because I can be on a runaway train of
lots of different ideas yeah
lots of different things I wanna do yep
lots of different things I wanna do um
doing a lot of those things
quite honestly trying to be the best
or the best that I can possibly be
you know
really trying to execute with excellence all the time
and everything it's very exhausting
and the reality is is that
has meant that I think that I haven't
always prioritized maybe what I need
cause I'm always thinking about others um
so it's something that I'm thinking about now
I can't say I'm even acting in it completely
but it's something I'm thinking about and realizing
it's probably a deeper sort of rooted thing
but realizing that I deserve to think about that for me
and we deserve to consider ourselves properly as well
and look after ourselves properly
that sounds like the intuitive answer answering itself
which is that the you know
and maybe back to the emotional maturity stuff
which is um
you reaching a a point where
you know the rocket ship keeps taking off
but it needs to
um needs to refuel some way yeah
as well and so
so right now who
who do you go to
or what do you go to to draw strength to kind of um
keep you going um
so faith definitely faith
100%
the conversations that I have in my head a lot as well
and absolutely my partner and my children as well
and I have for the first time
I've gone from you know
having a really really small circle
and I'm still protective about who's in that circle
and I think that's important
yeah
and to now I've been watering these friendships so much
you know these different relationships in my life
I say now it's like the botanical gardens
I can't keep up I'm like
oh my goodness but
there's so many wonderful people that you can have
around you and I didn't realize that to be the case
I'm only understanding that in very recent years now
that actually really important yeah
you surround yourself
with the people that are doing great things
you know they say
you know
you're reflective of the five people closest to you
and all of that yeah
OK you want people that are doing great things
and I've got great ambition
but you want good people around you
that want the best for you
and that speak into you and you into them genuinely
and if not then you know what
it's wonderful to stand on your own as well yeah
that's a better place
than having the right people around you yeah
so that has been my biggest learn
and that has been recent learn
and it has changed my whole life
cultivating connections and relationships
with more people yeah
that's a message in a you know
in a backdrop of a world where we talk about digital
yeah disconnection and people being more isolated
cause they got you know their
their heads in their devices all of the time
um
so that's a really wonderful thing that you're doing
yeah yeah
it's new it's really new territory for me
it feels uncomfortable sometimes I go and speak
I'd have an amazing opportunity
speaking on a podcast with you today
I do all of these things
but there's a very strong on intro um
I say entrepreneurship uh
introverted side to me
and I almost feel like I have to recoup
and then I get ready to speak to people again
so I've learnt that about myself
and I've learnt that that's okay as well
you know but the reason
it's that in that connection
and having those people around you that inspire you
and hopefully vice versa and speaking to you and again
vice versa is life changing
and that isn't always your family
that's not always coming from the places
that you may have wanted it to
or you hoped it would have
it is often in US finding and cultivating
those friendships and relationships around us
so yeah big
a big learn for me
but a life changing one and an easy on one level
easy I suppose take away for leadership as well um
cultivate those relationships
develop trust with people and
and share the load of what you're doing
yeah water
water your people yeah
and so
looking ahead now Scarlett yeah
um
what are you what are you excited about what's next
or on the horizon for you
so oh gosh
in so many different areas Richard um
so looking ahead I'm really
really excited um
to continue to blend my family and grow in that way
that's like my No. 1 priority really
and the children um
to continue to renovate the house yes
it's been this big vision
project that I was showing you well
it's well on the way isn't it
it's on the way we're trying to find the windows
and that's another example
I'm like I've got this vision and I'm gonna do it
and you know I'm gonna get there and we're gonna do it
and that's kind of being a physical
foundation of building actually
you know we've moved house a lot
so it's really important to me that there's this
this home now yeah
um and it's like a family home as well
so I'm really excited about that
and that's a journey
and it's been quite the pressurised journey
let me tell you and I'm very much still on it
um and then business wise um
is to continue to impact to continue to really impact
and positively impact my team actually
and that's something that
I don't think we always talk about
but I know we say to my team
you know we built the business
which is wonderful
but we don't just work for the business
we want the business to work for us yeah
so it's really important that the business
that we put our wonderful hearts and souls into
and time into yes
really works for my team as well
you know that is my No. 1
actually
in terms of the business outside of the revenue
and yeah we wanna
you know
we wanna do this with this client and we wanna do that
yeah that's absolutely wonderful
it's what drives me but my team
and
really seeing the benefits of that is crucial to me
as well as and
and what would um
the business working for your team look like
when they're kind of living in that hmm
so enjoying what they're doing
mm hmm yeah
being challenged having the flexibility
yeah to live the lives as well
and financial reward yes
yeah so it's getting all of those balances
impact and all of those things yeah
bringing some of the balance
that you were unable to experience in your
in your early working environment
we have the most flexible yeah
working environment you know
we ever we ever did pre
pre pandemic I'd like to say as well
you know and yeah
it's a team that probably works the most hours yeah
and we work really hard and
and it's because of that because there's a trust there
it hasn't been broken
there's the flexibility then on the back of it
you know
and we do great work and we care about what we do
and that's so so important
you know you wanna do meaningful work
don't you yeah
so yeah
it brings me to my last question
yeah um
so if someone was listening to this podcast
in 5 years time what was the message
you'd want them to take away from this conversation
huh I'll be intrigued to see what our thoughts are
in 5 years time hopefully
I've got windows in the house and we should
ha ha ha we might be recording in the house
yeah that's right um
my journey so far has LED me to this point
and it would be to be you
so be you in every sense of
of whatever that means
so if that isn't fashionable or it is like
or it isn't like to be you very unapologetically yeah
it it would be that
so whether that's five years ago or in five years time
it'd be try to keep understanding who you are
the core of who you are
and really standing in that's be you
be you yeah
be you it's a simple
but important yeah
important point and um
I've really enjoyed the conversation too
me too always
thank you so much for having me
thank you so much for being on the podcast