Stuart Middleton: From Battlefield to Boardroom

Stuart Middleton, Founder and CEO of Interv_l Group, shares how his experiences in the Royal Marines shaped the leader he is today.

From enduring one of the world's toughest military training programmes to serving on the front line in Afghanistan, Stuart reflects on the resilience, teamwork and sense of purpose that defined his time in the Marines. He also opens up about the challenge of leaving that world behind, rebuilding his identity in civilian life, and discovering that authentic leadership begins with being yourself.

We explore why elite teams are built on trust rather than hierarchy, how adversity can reveal your true character, and why creating a values-led business became Stuart's way of continuing to serve. Today, through Interv_l Group, he helps climate technology companies build the teams shaping a more sustainable future.

This is a conversation about leadership, resilience, authenticity, and finding purpose beyond the uniform.

Transcript

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and there was this huge explosion
the call over the radio was the base is under attack
me and one of the other guys
basically
had to go around with our night vision goggles on
clearing the whole compound
cause we didn't know what happened
today I'm joined by Stuart Middleton
Stuart spent over 4 years in the Royal Marines
the Marine training was regarded as the longest
hardest basic training in the world
can you go time and time again
when things are getting really
really tough and when you just wanna
kind of curl up in a ball and cry
um and they want you to keep going
including operational service in Helmand province
but you're dealing with the constant
daily threats of someone stepping on an ID
before leaving the military
and transitioning into civilian work
we wanted to be different
but we wanted to be the best
in the same way that Marines
small team elite teams has always interested me
I've always loved it yeah
I've lost more friends
since I've welcome Stewart
left the Marines and and been out of Afghanistan
what we actually did in Afghanistan
he later founded Interval Group
a recruitment business
working with climate and energy transition companies
I'm not gonna be the person who can create technology
that's gonna save the world
but if I can work with companies
are playing their part
in making the world a better place
for the climate
I played my part in trying to make a better
world for us all
thank you very much thanks for having me
the reason I wanted to get you onto the podcast um
was because during our first conversation
which was sometime last year
I think I was really
really struck by the degree to which um
you often don't see in founders and people starting
a new business and business leaders
you were really passionate about
the values and principles that
sort of um
your business is based on and that drive you
maybe you could start by telling us a bit about that
yeah no absolutely
I think um look
I mean the values which
which I run through the business
are the same values that I think
I would like to
if I sit down with my children and kind of say look
these are the important things that
that I think we should live by
um and I think there's
there's probably three that really stand out to me
and I think the the first one is authenticity really
um
if there's one thing that I've kind of
you know learnt through life
and I think your values do change
as you go through the journey of life
in general but um
I think authenticity in in
around being yourself
be comfortable in yourself and who you are
um I think that that for us is
is is definitely one that we kind of
try and push through the business
to kind of get everyone to be themselves
don't try and be someone you're not ultimately
um so
slightly
harder to find in the world than it used to be
isn't it uh yeah
it's very difficult it's very difficult
and I think that's where emotional intelligence really
kind of kicks in and that's
one of the things that we really look out for
is the ability
we're not looking for cookie cutter people
it's about not round pegs
round holes type scenario
but really people who've got opinions on things
who've got who are all a bit different
I think that that diversity is
is so important within a business
I think also
if I think about it it's
it's not being afraid to push yourself
out your comfort zone I think just in life in general
um
and I'm sure we'll go into that a lot more through this
through this conversation
but really the value of
of not being afraid to push yourself
out your comfort zone because
that's where
you'll really get the test of who you really are
and what you're capable of achieving
and then uh
and then the final one I would say would be um
work hard try your best
if you try your best everything you do yup
you know you can't
you can't you can always say that you
you you gave your best shot and uh
if it doesn't work out well
hey listen
life is life runs that
way doesn't it doesn't always go the way you wanted to
but if you give your best shot and everything you do
and you will put yourself at your comfort zone
and you be yourself
cause you're authentic in my opinion
you're onto a winner
sounds like really good values and um yeah
ones that uh
I'll probably sit down and talk to my own kids about
as well so maybe um
the place that I'd like to start as we talk about your
your your career and all the things that uh
that that you do is um like I said in the introduction
you were in the Royal Marines and the official um
UK Royal Marines
career page describes the Royal Marines as an elite
amphibious force
operating in varied and challenging environments
and a mindset is required as needing determination
physical fitness mental robustness and teamwork
and the opportunity
to be part of a team that adapts and responds
in the face of adversity so I
I was wondering what it was that you were looking for
what were you seeking
when you decided to join the Royal Marines
good question so
um
supposed to put it into perspective
and I probably need to take you back really to to um
when I was kind of going through my a levels and you
you have to make that decision at that point in life
don't you
whereby am I going to carry on in education and go
on to do my um
I uh my
my a degree yeah
some sort and I just felt as if
I really couldn't
decide what it was that I wanted to do
coupled with that as well
I suppose I also
came to terms with the fact that
being in that learning environment
just wasn't right for me okay
um I did absolutely fine at school um
but the education system um
I think predominantly because it was
it wasn't till later in life that I was
diagnosed with dyslexia
so I always found it very difficult
it wasn't that I couldn't understand
what was being taught to me
it was it was struggling to get what the mind
what was in my mind down on a piece of paper
from a test perspective
so I kind of was burnt at that point
I thought you know what
this is not for me so yeah yeah
I I sat down with my dad
and we discussed some of the options
and he gave me some really good kind of dad son advice
as a as
as as
as it comes and um I
I thought you know what
at the time I was playing loads of Rugby I
I was constantly in the gym
much more than what I am these days
but um
and I really enjoyed kind of pushing myself physically
so we went down the careers office um
and this guy open the door said
who do you wanna join um
he was kind of big and burly and I thought
I don't know who I wanna join
I just wanna join right
I wanna join the army I said
and he said well
I'm in the Marines and they're the best
I was like well
in that case then let's join the Marines OK
cause I thought a lot about myself physically
so yeah
and and then he played some videos
I saw guys jumping out helicopters
doing the amphibious stuff that you
you mentioned there and I just thought
you know what this is a bit of me
that that's exactly what I need to do
and then kind of uncovering that it was
the Marine training was regarded as the way
and it still is regarded as the longest
hardest basic training in the world
maybe we can talk about that next
um I did a little bit of reading about that and it
and it came up that you know
to earn the coveted Green Beret
you have to go through commando training
and there's some commando tests
aren't there that you have to be able to get through
in order to earn that beret
yeah absolutely
you you go through 32 weeks of training
which is you know
from day one week one
you're you're thrown into the hornet's nest
it's a you'll know very
very quickly whether or not you're made of
of it um
but yeah so you go through 30 weeks of training how
how how did you experience that first week then
so you'd come out of school
and you'd made this decision because there was a big
strong chap who showed you some videos
yeah and then you get dropped straight into it
I would say it was like that shock of capture
if I'm honest with you it's like
I'm here I gotta get it done
I'm just gonna listen keep my head down and
and just do what I'm told
yeah um
and very quickly kind of found that
you know what this was
this was this was right for me because um
you know you
you go through training just do what you're told to do
work hard and and um
and I think the the principles then
that you kind of learn
and you take through for the rest of your life
which is just that element of determination
and also that cheerfulness in the face of adversity
which you've mentioned there already
you know it's been able to
be able to laugh at the situation that you're in
so if you're stuck in a in a puddle
you haven't eaten for really very well for
for weeks and it's raining and it's 2:00 in the morning
and it's minus 2 degrees outside
and you gotta take your your um your
your opportunity to go on sentry duty
um
and go do you know what
just accept it for what it is
yeah
that element of determination and I just enjoyed that
I like the physical challenge um
what sort of physical challenges did they come up with
I mean 32 weeks is a long time to be getting pushed
there must have been some quite
extraordinary things that you had to do
yeah there's definitely a load of stories
probably some that aren't right for this podcast
come on there must be a good one
yeah yeah yeah
I mean look
I think that it's all about
what they're trying to teach there is resilience OK
so this this kind of um
they want to be able to push you to your limits
and then see how you react to it
so it could be things like you
you've been on on an exercise for a week
you've been out on Dartmoor getting the whole
all the elements kind of thrown at you
you're back in camp
they want a full inspection in the morning
of all your kit there's no way that you're gonna
get that all cleaned
and ready for inspection in the morning um
cause they give you no time to turn around
bear in mind everything had to be washed by hand
yeah we weren't allowed to use washing machines
they wanted it all dry it's impossible
we knew we're gonna fail
you do as best you can and then it's right
wake up early in the morning
get shaken up and then it's straight from MUD run on
um at Lipstone um
which is near Exeter or Exmouth sorry
um MUD run
so they just run you around and uh
and get covered in MUD for two hours
three hours however long it needs to last for
so are they trying to break people at this
essentially what they're trying to
they're testing your mental resilience
it's not about kind of physically how good you are
how strong you are um
there's all different various shapes and sizes
um I mean you
you need a level of basic fitness
but they will get you fit
um but it's that mental resilience is can you
can you go time and time again
when things are getting really
really tough and when you just want to kind of
curl up in a ball and cry um
and they want you to keep going
and so that went on for 32 weeks
and then
then you were a commando and you had your green beret
and at some point after that
I noticed during the time that you were serving
that you went to Afghanistan
yeah
and you were involved in something called Operation
Herrick 14 from what I could see
could you tell me what the operation was
that you were involved in
yeah so um
the Herricks Herricks are numbered um
and it's it's
there's two Herricks every year in theory um
so um
I was I was on Herrick 14
which was in 2,011 it was a summer of 2,011 um
and the the operation was
essentially
to win hearts and minds of the local people right
I mean the
I think we
we found very quickly from being in Afghanistan
with the cultural awareness
stuff that we Learned over the years
that going in and just kind of um
wrecking the place wasn't gonna work
we had to win hearts and minds of the locals
which also does come with his challenges
to be completely honest with you
because you're on one hand
you don't know who the enemy are
at any one time that you're
that you're fighting against
presume they could melt away into the civilians
and you wouldn't know the difference
I mean we're
we're we're in our
we're in our our camouflage equipment
yeah so it's very easy to identify who we are
we couldn't identify who they were and and
and the Taliban would exploit that significantly
and also you know
we were we were at the age of um
rather than what we call kinetic warfare
which is um
where there's where you
where you
where you're typically going through battle with um
firefights with with rifles and
and ammunitions instead this was dealing with IEDs
which was right
extremely difficult because effectively
you're going out once twice
three times a day on patrol um
to win the hearts and minds of the locals
to show them that we're here
to protect them from the Taliban
um but you're dealing
with the constant
daily threat of someone stepping on an ID yeah
um and it wasn't just stepping on them
they would put IDS in walls
so when they knew we'd lean up against the walls
cause we're carrying loads yeah
yeah you know
sometimes A hundred plus pounds worth of gear
and that's very heavy so you're going down on one knee
you lean up against walls and they would exploit that
um so that was
that was one of the biggest challenges
I think that we had in in
during those later heretics
was it went from firefights to
to IED threats and you were in Helmand province
weren't you which is notorious even now
yeah people
people know that as synonymous with where
you know there was a lot of danger
and there was intense fighting
what was your own experience of Helmand
so I think when um
I suppose you gotta paint the picture here around
kind of what
what it what is like in
on the battlefield um
you've obviously got
I'm sure you've probably heard things like Camp Bastion
well Camp Bastion was
was a was a
was the main base within within Afghanistan
and look it's a
it's a it was
it's not there anymore but it was a huge base
we're talking how you to get around
you need a bus to get around
we basically flew in you we
you had four days of acclimatization to the heat um
and then it was sent out to a patrol base
and what's that heat a big deal then
because obviously we all saw it on the news
and it just looked like a sunny day
but I'm guessing it was 40 degrees or something
and you're wearing all that gear
yeah yeah
essentially
I think the highest we recorded was 52 degrees
good and you bear in mind you
you're wearing all your all your body armor
all your Protection
carrying A hundred plus pounds worth of kit going on
on patrols
you having to take 10 liters of water in some cases
on a on a patrol and
and that would be gone by the time you got back
because you're just constantly
constantly kind of sweating um
due to the heat but yeah
I think you know my
my personal experience was then going from Cambodian um
to a patrol base and this patrol base
it was essentially a MUD hut right
there was a family living at the time
we had to um
ask them to to move out
um they
they were paid um
to do that and then live for the rest of the family
we and we took that over
and we're talking a MUD hut
with probably a wall around the outside
10 foot high kind of MUD walls a
a foot thick 10 meters high
a 10 foot high um
and that was it so how big was
how big this is you were in a MUD hut
so this this is like traditional building methods
a thick wall made out of earth and um
what was this the size of
I would say um
size of uh
I would say half a football pitch in total
OK that would
that would be our our kind of area
and you'd have 18 we have
eighteen people living in
in that at any one time um
and that would have been someone's home before then
yeah yeah and
and in that home it's not just that
obviously you got a small living quarters
and then
the rest of it would probably be where the animals
yeah would stay
so donkeys and goats and things like that um
but we had to then take it over because and
and bear in mind
you're right in the heart of the bees nest and
and um
you know you got
you got you
you're backing onto other compounds
as we call them other
is that other friendly compounds or other
other enemy ones is it
well this is the thing to
that we had to uncover really
which was we we
the reason why you're put there is to
is to win hearts and minds of the locals and
in theory push the enemy out
so you're pushing the the
the Taliban out of the area
cause we knew they were there
yeah it was about
then we had to try and basically dominate the ground
and and
not allow them to move
and do everything that they wanted to do
so um
yeah so we
we
we then had to kind of build it up from scratch really
so you're building your own sentry towers
which are your if anyone doesn't know what that is
sentry towers is a guard tower in theory
we had to make sure that we were protected at all times
and we had three of those which were
had to be manned night and day
so
these had to be above the height of that 10 foot wall
correct yeah
and we what we had was
we had two that we put on top of a couple of buildings
that were inside um
I mean the roofs were pretty dodgy in fairness
and we had we built them up with just sandbags
yeah with a
with a like a small um
bit of cover on top I mean it wasn't
it wasn't very safe
but I'm sitting on a flimsy roof in the 50 degree heat
surrounded by some sandbags
yeah exactly
and just expose yourself to
to all the elements and everyone knows you're there
and then um
we had another one
which eventually got changed to something called a
super singer
we were getting hit so often on
on the patrol base daily um
that we needed additional height
so they came and built a scaffold tower for us um
because we were
the patrol base was eventually nicknamed the
Devil's Doorstep
because we were the most hit patrol base
of that particular year the most hit patrol base yeah
yeah and how did that feel when you were all in there
I think I think at the time you
it's you
you you have to acclimatize extremely quickly
I remember that
I think for the first six weeks we were there
nothing happened really quiet
um and then suddenly
almost overnight it just started really kicking off but
and the reason for that is
because we'd entered a new area um
and then they were
obviously planning to do what they needed to do to
to come and attack us in theory yes
um but um
yes so it was
it was a daily occurrence
going out and and getting in contact
as we call it um
so
they've been planning for six weeks after you arrived
to attack you
and then you had to go out every day and engage in
engage the enemy absolutely
absolutely um
and it was you know
we had to be we
we were really the
the challenges we had was that we
we were under very strict orders
and I think this
this is what made life very difficult for a lot of the
a lot of the guys I I was working with at the time
because
we weren't allowed to engage on anything at all
unless we were um
basically shot at so what
in theory what would happen would be
we would be ordered to kind of
walk out into a Poppy field
mm hmm in order to get shots at
um
to then be able to identify where that was coming from
and then kind of go after the bad guys
now the problem with that
if you think about it is you got the ID threat
so if you're gonna get
if you're in the middle of a field
yeah and you're getting shot at
you can't just go running after them
you can't just you can't just
because you've got you could
you could be in a minefield or an ID field
for all you know and what would happen is they were
they were smart and they
trying to goad you on to areas
where you were then funneled into
they're trying to trap you
they're trying to trap you
in theory yeah
and trying to yeah
pull you into a location where they had already
booby trapped hmm
um and that was
that was the hardest thing
I think for a lot of guys to kind of come to terms with
the fact of you know
we got we got guys getting injured
guys getting you know
they're losing limbs mmm
unfortunately losing lives
getting shot and
and you can't really do an awful lot about it and
and I think that's
that's what let a lot of the guys down
I think during during
during those years those late years
a different thing to actually be engaged in a firefight
versus
walking into a situation
where you don't know what's gonna happen yeah
I mean just starting with
needing to go out into a Poppy field
so that someone can shoot at you
I mean that must be hard in its own right
it was it was
and it was every day it was every day
you know there are no days off when you're
when you're at war and it was literally
go out every day to get engaged with small arms fire um
with the aim to try and
identify where that's coming from um
and go and get the bad guys
what about the um the
the
the chain of command and the leadership there was that
you know how
how how can you lead men into that environment
day after day
and keep people engaged in it and motivated
to what extent you can you know
yeah and
and not not wanting to
you know coward within the
within the the
the the uh camp yeah
I think I think you've got this situation
whereby there is no way out
you're there so you
you come to terms with that pretty quickly
I also think that when your
when your comrades started to get injured you
you kind of you know you
you it's
it's very difficult to explain unless you've been there
and I think anyone who listens to this
who has been to war will understand that
when you're in that environment there
and there's no way out
you just have to kind of face what's in front of you
day to day there's no one's gonna come and save you
there's no one
they're not gonna send a helicopter to pick you up yeah
um and I think that you
you just come together
it's drilled into you that you are
you're there to look after each other um
the leadership is great um
but you become very very close with a very
very small bunch of guys um
that you
you know you've experienced
things that you never would do with anyone else
and yeah
and that that pulls you together
and I think then everyone
the good thing about the Marines
everyone took their element of leadership
I think um that's
that's definitely the principles they're looking for
they're looking for people who can really kind of
stand up and be counted and relied upon yeah
like a band of brothers yeah
it's it's critical at that point
and how did the stress manifest itself
for people in that situation
for you and for the
for that band of brothers around you
could you was it noticeable or was it
was it kind of hidden day to day
I think I think it was hidden yeah
day to day and I
I don't think people really knew the effects of how
that's gonna be when you
until you come back home and
and maybe
sometimes years down the line for a lot of people
yes um
I mean we
we hear a lot around
people getting post traumatic stress disorder um
which is a serious thing it's a real thing
um you know
sadly I've lost friends since I've
I've lost more friends since I've left Afghanistan
left the Marines and been out of Afghanistan
what we actually did in Afghanistan
goodness that's quite something
true mental health
clearly we've known since the First World War
what happens to people with shell shock
and post traumatic stress disorder
and mental health problems
you know what
what sort of supports is there for people when they
when they leave and to be honest with you Richard there
there's there's not enough
there's not a lot um
and I mean to put in perspective um
to kind of bring you into what it
what it's like you
you you effectively
you come off you get called off the ground when you're
when it's time to come home you
you you spend the night in Cambuscan
getting showered and your kit together
and you're flying over to Cyprus
mm hmm um
for a for a night
crate of crate of beers
come in help yourself guys
and then you're home the next day
so you've gone from a really kind of violent war zone
yeah to normal life
and I think the biggest challenge
that a lot of people don't realize at the time is
is is when you begin become a civilian again
it's it's kind of you
you you
you lose that kind of purpose of who you are
you built this career
you've gone through all these experiences
with these people that
only
the people around you will know what it's all about
and suddenly you're
you're in this world of just civilian life
so perhaps I
I'd like to come on to talk about that sort of
that civilian life and how you adjust
and it's an important part of your
of your journey you
you you
you mentioned um
just before that those things that you do experience
those um
intense experiences the fighting experiences um
I know cause you mentioned it to me before
um before this interview
perhaps we could um
hear about there was a certain
there was a certain uh
day I think
where your where your camp got
got attacked
and that would be something that would really
I think illustrate for people
that transition from what it was like in the war zone
to then going home funny
I was actually thinking about that on the
on the way down there
because I remember us talking about it
but yeah so um
we I mentioned earlier on there was 18 of us in a
in this in this camp
and we we had three
three towers where we would um
where we would guard it so we'd
we'd have kind of regular um
missions that you'd go out and some yeah you
let's say 12 of you would go out for like
three or four days at a time
which would
which would leave six people back in the camp okay
um now on top of this as well
we also have um
what we call an icon radio
which would basically pick up um
it's a radio that the interpreters would use
that would pick up the signals from the Taliban OK
um so they would interpret back to us and
and cause they were watching us at all times OK
so what they were using
they were using some shortwave radio
they were yeah
they were using effectively yeah
shortwave walkie talkies our
our our radio would then also pick that up um
our our main radios were all encrypted um
but um the
the the interpreters would
would then feed that information back to us
they were watching us all the time
because it would match
it would match up with what we were saying that
you know
they've left the base and we're gonna attack them
so anyway
that one that one particular event
um the 12
12 of the guys left um we
I was part of the six party back at home and
and as they were leaving the radio over
our radios were saying that the icon chatter was
was was going on
and they were gonna attack us that night
because they knew that there was only six of
us left in there they knew
they knew the ins and outs of us okay
so anyway that night
um you
you can match it's pitch black
you got you got three people on the
on the guard towers
you've got one person man in the radio all times
and you got two people resting up
and you go on a rotation round and round
and it I
I can't remember what time it was
but it was it was in the middle of the night
say let's say 1 o'clock in the morning
and there was this huge explosion
almost to the point where
you know you felt lifted up
you go right the shockwave went straight through us
the call over the radio when is the base under attack
everyone stay put
I was one of the two that was on rest duty at the time
so you got
the three guys being told to stay on
their sentry duties keep their eyes out
um the personal radio
radio back to the HQ saying we need support
and me and one of the other guys
basically had to go around
with our night vision goggles on
side by side clearing the whole compound
cause we didn't know what happened effectively
somebody tried to to
to to
to break their way in with a
with a with a large charge on the wall
and you said these were big walls
yeah I mean they're 10 foot high and
and and and
and sometimes more than a foot in thickness um
but the the damage those walls can take is ridiculous
it's phenomenal you know
you can fire some major charges at them
and it will not go through
it will not burst through so fortunately
fortunately they didn't manage to get through
but we later found in the morning
where they tried to get in
and it was in a bit of a black spot that we had
at the time which we knew existed there as today
probably because they were that
that they've been testing it for the
for the days or weeks leading up to it
but that was a that was one of those times where you
the reality kicks in very
very quickly
you don't know who you're gonna come across
it's pitch black anything's
you know you can see anything at random
it's like a it's like a
like a you know
rat runs you you can't find
you don't know who's around the next corner
so me and me and my buddy at the time
we basically went around he had one on my shoulder
I went first
and it was basically trying to clear the place
and eventually you know
thankfully there was no one broke in
but that was one of those occasions where you were like
yeah that could have gone so much worse yeah um
so you you had night vision goggles on
you had no idea who was around if they'd broken in
and this was just um
two guys making their way around hoping um
that they weren't gonna run into something absolutely
yeah absolutely
and and you that that does it's amazing how the
the kind of things you remember um
and that you carry with you like that
that is one that mean bear in mind
we were out every single day
but there's certain things you are
you remember those ones cause I remember yeah
I remember it's cause I must have thought all the time
this is this is a bit naughty yeah
right now yeah
well thank you for telling telling me about it
it sounds like a you know
something that you will
that you will always remember and
and play through play through in your mind
and so when you're in the heat of battle
um
do you think there's play
there's payback on all of that relentless training
that you're doing
coming back to when you're doing the commando training
and the
the sleepless nights and the muddy runs and things yeah
absolutely I think
you know it's all about
the one thing that we did very well in the Marines was
it was about doing the basics right
and I think that's just in life if we think about it
you know if you do if you do the basics right
more often than not
you're gonna get to where you need to
so we can we always practice our drills
we always practice our basic um
principles of of
of kind of being a being a commando
so I think that yeah
it absolutely paid off you know and
and um
you know I'm very
I'm very fortunate that I was at
you know that I will
I had the training that I did in that environment
because it could have been a different story otherwise
bear in mind some of the other things that we know
we happened we
we found bomb making factories
we found um
rockets on tripwires
and if it wasn't for the training that we had
you wouldn't have found them
we wouldn't have found them
and yeah
and um
you know unfortunately
you know there were things that happened to some people
which is um
which was you know
couldn't have been avoided
yeah it was um
it really couldn't but at the same time
you know I think that
if we hadn't have had the training that we had done
then things could have got a hell of a lot worse
Operation
Herrick was part of a United Nations operation
as I've understood it
and that means that you were in Helmand
not just with Marines
but with other armed services as well
some from other countries
did you notice how your training had prepared you
versus any of them completely
completely look
you know you
you speak to any any Royal Marine and they
we are so proud of who we are
we're a very small elite unit of what we do um
and you know
when you're going through the
your daily patrols and you're
you're coming across other people from other regiments
you know from the army
you know everyone's got to play their part right
but for us we were very proud of
you know us adhering to the
to the to the
to the level of standards that we
that we kind of set ourselves out
we never took any corners
we never took any corners
it was everything was done properly methodically
take our time um
we used to have a saying
which is slow is smooth and smooth is fast
yeah
and that was something we really kind of always work
I love that yeah
slow is smooth and smooth is fast yeah
absolutely slow is smooth and smooth is fast
you can apply that to any aspect of life really
absolutely it's about
it's about not panicking in
in the situation taking a step back
taking a breath figuring out what you're gonna do
rather than just kind of run around
cause that's what you know
in a war situation that's what the enemy want
they want you to be disorientated
they want you to
to run around and make errors
whereas for us it was all controlled um yeah
so very fortunate
so you served your time in Helmand
and all the sorts of things you were telling us about
um flew to Cyprus
had your case of beer and then you were back and
you know sometime after that you
you left the Marines yeah
and um
so I mean
I speak to veterans from time to time
you know the outcome in Afghanistan
didn't really match with the original aims
you know some veterans say regardless
they are still clear about having served their country
and their crown um
how do you see that with hindsight
um I think that like
I'm very proud of the job that I did
um and I'd like to think that we made a difference
um
do I reflect on it and think was it worth it
sometimes I you know
depending on the mood I'm in
I think I'd probably say a lot of time
it wasn't worth it for
for the sake of the families that lost
lost their their
their children their brothers and their sisters
unfortunately um
you know especially the
in the way that we kind of left and came away from it
and it's and
and nothing's really changed
should we been there in the first place
well
you know maybe
maybe that's a that's a
that's a whole topic for for another day
but yeah you know
I do question it it is a
it's a it's a difficult one
um slight digression
but one thing that I've not
that I noticed this was um
chatting to ex military um
friends of mine around the time
the old queen died before the king came to the throne
and really noticing um
like
a remarkable level of loyalty to country and crown
and monarchy and things which
you know you don't always see day to day
but that seemed to come through
and you talked about the Royal Marines yeah
so um
if it's not about the campaign
in the theater of war that you're involved in
there's something that makes everyone get in and do it
isn't there and
and so um yeah
what was what
what what do you think
when I when I joined the Marines
and the options I had in front of me at the time
it was about the challenge hmm OK
it was about can am I
physically strong enough to be able to go and do this
hardest training that exists
um but then you yeah
but then can you mention the Queen there
and obviously her passing
and I think that it wasn't till that did happen and
and Crikey do we put on a show yeah
as you know and
and you know
it makes you proud to be English
sometimes around kind of the show that is put on
and the the first
you know all the kind of
everything that goes along without the ceremonies yeah
parades and all that kind of good stuff
and it makes you you know
really does make you proud
and I think the you know
it does remind you that
you know we are
we're we're very fortunate in this country to have that
that monarchy in my opinion and
and that kind of history there and um it
you know it is
then
that kind of proud to serve your queen and country
or the king and country now
yeah king and country um
because yeah
so many sort of the the
the fast paced modern world
so many of the traditions of the country
are getting more and more lost
but actually you know
they still have a a place
don't they and um
and so thank you for for
for for sharing that
so you left and then well
you've already explained the the
the the difficulty of moving from the sort of
firefights you're describing back into civilian life
I wonder
as well as the trauma that people suffer from that
the post traumatic uh
stress disorder and so on
what about the kind of the the
the more practical stuff
when you come out of the military
you know you're losing routine
you're losing an identity
um a belonging
the bond of brothers
those things if they go overnight as well
um I imagine that kind of leaves people um
with a lot of problems to solve completely
I would say yeah
losing identity is one of the biggest problems
I think a lot of people face
because effectively
you've worked so hard to build this career within a
within the military in in a specialization perhaps
and suddenly overnight you're in the civilian world
and it doesn't it it feels like
how can I relate all this experience I've got into
into the real civilian world
and suddenly you know
your when I came out
I did I did in a four and a half years um
I left while I was still young and I
I left because I wanted to start a new career
I knew that if I if I left it too long
it would become more and more difficult
so I was still young at the time
to go and start something from
from scratch but at the same time
I think
you know it
you're at that point
when I started getting back into the new world
and can have my first job
you were already on the back foot
and so you done all this stuff
and it didn't mean anything
or didn't count for anything
um it's a relatability actually
I imagine yeah
when you're talking to somebody at a job interview
and they're saying
you know what were you doing last year
and you said well I was you know
I was dealing with IEDs and standing in a Poppy field
getting shot at in in Helmand Province there
there's a quite a bridge to a understand
but B also then take from that OK
well
what would that mean Stewart can do for me sitting here
absolutely we talked about loads of skills actually
but it's not gonna be an obvious one yeah
absolutely absolutely
and I think also the the mindset of
of the work ethic that needs to go into
when you're in that type of environment
which is you know you you you you you help everyone out
you get stuck into everything and
and it's all about just getting the job done yeah
not not a case of kind of going well
this isn't my job I'm not here to do that
and I think that a lot of military people struggle to
ex military people going to the life
struggle to get that kind of mindset
why aren't these people just chipping in
and getting it done it doesn't matter who you are
why aren't we just all kind of pushing forward
on the same the same mission
yeah so to speak
and I think that that
that took me a while to get used to as well
cause I was surrounding myself with these people
thinking
I've come from this high performance environment
into a world of kind of going well
why why are we helping each other out
why are we working differently
um and yeah
that's a that was an important factor for me
what was your first job after you came out
so first job so I was doing I
I went into the uh into close Protection actually
so I spent I spent about a year doing close Protection
body gardening theory um
and I very quickly realized that wasn't for me
um it sounds great
you know I wanted to be the James Bond esque
you know yeah
the reality was I was babysitting people effectively
that didn't really need to be looked after
um it was high
wealthy individuals who who
um you know
who needed who felt they need some form of Protection
but there was no real threat at any one point
and very quickly then I I decided that wasn't for me
and then went into operational leadership
so I worked for a security company whereby we were
I was managing in excess of 200 people
mm hmm um
the day to day operations
making sure everyone was in the right place
at the right time um
and did that for about um
two and a half years seems like a long time ago now
but yeah about two and a half years
did that feel weird
when you have been in that military environment
where you're measured on you know
have you managed to wash and dry your trousers
or have you managed to go out on another mission
to suddenly kind of time sheeting
clocking on clocking off
yeah that bit wasn't too
that bit wasn't too difficult for me actually
at the time because it was around um yeah
making sure everyone's in the right place
at the right time and kind of
putting the military methodologies in place
to make sure that everyone's
clear on what they need to do
so that bit wasn't too bad the challenge was
I suppose at that time
cause you're dealing with 200 people
was that not every 200 people
had the same mindset as what you needed to do
yeah and you kind of got yeah
it was the
I can't come into work today or this can't happen
and I think that
that was one of the things that kind of
got me frustrated a little bit yeah
cause you cause I had to learn I can't
I can't communicate with these people in the same way
that yeah
you would do in
in that kind of marine environment that I was used to
it was just like kind of stiff up a lip
crack on and get it done um
to no we can't quite do that Stewart
we gotta
we gotta treat these people slightly differently
so that was a learning curve
a good one as well
because I Learned that everyone's not the same
and we need to be mindful of that um
do you think
after everything you said about going through your
your Royal Marines training and the 32 weeks
and how that set you up to
work really well with other people
and create tight bonds and things um
that that uh professional life companies um
take the training seriously enough
because it's often a line item on a budget and it's uh
and but it's when done well it's a great thing
but it's certainly not the entry point
to be part of our culture is
you know a real immersion and it's going to um
find out who you know
who's up for this and who's not
are we talking about training here
and do we do enough training in the workplace
I'm talking about training in the workplace
cause it just occurred to me that um
one of the reasons those
200 people may not have all performed the same way
is because
they hadn't all been through 32 week commando training
a lot of companies
I think don't look at training enough
yeah um
I really think it's
it's something that's massively overlooked
in everything
because we just expect people to come in and do a job
and then get on with it and then we become
easily frustrated
when they're not doing the job that they're they're
they're they're
they're paid to do yeah
and we have to look at ourselves sometimes and go
you know away from kind of
have we set the right expectations
if are we
are we actually training these people
are we upskilling them are we giving them um
more knowledge around what their job is
and different ways of working
and it's definitely something that is
massively overlooked
and I think if people were to look at themselves
in the positions that have controlled those budgets
or have that responsibility
you know I think we'd find that not
a lot of people are doing enough
it's interesting you say that
cause you kind of bring it back to the individual
and the psychology of those people
because of course
that's what you've made a career out of now
you know you're a specialist in talent and recruitment
and you build your own business
and we're gonna talk about that
when did you so realize that that was your calling that
um that
that finding
good people and helping match them to good roles was
was for you part of it was so when I
when I was doing the operational stuff
obviously I had the responsibility to hire
take people on board and I
I really enjoyed that kind of um
giving the news to somebody
that they just got a new job and
and in theory you know
and you
you were taking on people that really needed that help
and I enjoyed that and um
I always found that I was good at talking to people um
I was nosy
I was inquisitive to find out people's background
what's it you do and just generally kind of find out
I enjoy I still today enjoy doing that OK
so um and it wasn't I
I didn't know much about what recruitment was
at the time
but my friend was doing it and I just said look
I'm I'm I'll we're having a beer one day and I said
look I'm really kind of not enjoying this
what I'm doing at the moment
I feel like I'm just missing some form of purpose here
yeah and he said
well look
you know if you thought about recruitment
I'm doing it I can help you out
have an interview got the job
um and very
very quickly I found that with the amount
with the mindset I had in the application to work
of just work hard and learn as much as you can
don't be afraid to ask questions
be vulnerable and authentic
it just became natural to me
and it just it all started kind of coming together
and I found I was good at it
and before I know you know
before I knew it
I'd spent kind of five years working for a company
worked my way through the ranks
built this um
built this career mm hmm
built this network of people um
and was just was just loving it at the time
I mean I don't mean
I don't think many people could say
they love recruitment yeah
but I actually was I was really enjoying it
um well
that means you found something that's
that's for you isn't it
yeah if you're loving it
and you know what they say
find a job you love and you never have to work again
absolutely I mean
it comes with its challenges
you know I don't want to kind of
paint this rosy picture of his fantastic
you know it's
it's a it's a tough world to be in um
but I kind of set out then to kind of
really wanted to become a different type of recruiter
because I had this military background
whereby I I'd kind of worked at the
the top of the tree OK
where you were regarded as
as one of the best you know
that you can be within the armed forces
and suddenly I was like well
I want that same kind of um
feeling in the job I'm doing right now
which is recruitment
so that's kind of where I then set up Interval Group
which was basically set up to
we wanted to be different um
and we wanted to
set up a company with the correct values that um
wasn't always gonna be the biggest out there
but we wanted to be the best in the same way that
that kind of um
Marine small team elite teams has always interested me
I've always loved it yeah
so let's start there then as we talk about interval
let's start with the values
cause there's something you said a moment ago that um
I want to explore a bit bit more
same thing you said at the start of the conversation
which is that authenticity is a really important value
and you brought this into your business um
and you talked about being vulnerable
and making yourself open
I suppose to people where did you
where did you learn that skill
because you're you're you're kind of
I think
making a really strong point in a really good case
that it's a very important part of leadership
yeah but I've heard about uh
someone who's who like going to the gym and
you know didn't mind being sort of
told what to do and fall in line with the training
and then you know
and then having to
presumably put on a hard shell when you uh
when you uh
when you are um
at war so where did you acquire those skills
cause that fascinates me when I
when I left the armed forces I
I had you know
I felt that I had to behave a certain way yeah
um and be a certain person
mm hmm and it wasn't till um I
I think that at some point
the penny dropped
where it just didn't feel comfortable
what I was doing
or what I was being told to be in a certain way
and it wasn't till I just kind of backed myself to say
stew listen
I like to think myself as a
as a as a
as a as a
as a good guy as a
as somebody who people can talk to um
and I'd never struggled to make friends with anybody
and always
was intrigued to listen to what people had to say
and as soon as I stopped thinking
you need to behave in a certain way
and started being true to myself
I just found that it all started clicking together
and because the stress comes from
trying to pretend to be something
you're not yeah
and that didn't work for me
cause you can't keep it up forever
and as soon as I just became me
started enjoying the moment a lot more
mm hmm that it just
everything just became natural
and suddenly the stress levels came down
yes because it was almost accepting
that kind of point around
I am who I am
you're not gonna get along with everybody
and that was quite hard
because I've always tried to make friends
with everybody but the reality is in this big world
you can't be friends with everybody
um
but so I worked really really hard to just go Stewie
you are who you are
don't be afraid to be yourself
and for me that just all started come together
and it just all started you know
I think just not just in work but outside as well
love the fact that you named it
and you worked hard at it
and now here we are
talking about it as one of the
founding values of Interval Group
um
so on the founding of Interval Group
I had another start I was going to mention um
which was it actually comes from the US Association of
uh of Small Businesses and it says that there at least
um veterans are 45% more likely to be self employed
or start their own businesses than
um when they've had active service um
than than non military people
wondering what you think about that
well I think if I
if I look at a lot of the
you're my my
my my Marine friends
yeah that's probably true
a lot of us have gone on to set up our own things
I think because you
you have a certain standards that you set yourself you
you have to learn right
so if you started a career and something
you have to learn it
but then I found that I very quickly kind of went well
we can do this better mm hmm
I can do this on my own mm hmm
I don't need anybody else to do that for me
and I think a lot of a lot of
ex military people will have the same kind of mindset
cause you're always striving for better
you're always kind of
willing to push yourself out your comfort zone
and that is one of the biggest things as well is
is not being afraid
to push yourself out your comfort zone
yes and take that risk
yeah and I think we were
we are risk takers cause you
you wouldn't
you wouldn't go to war unless you were a risk taker
yeah that's true or
or being in the armed forces
if you want a risk taker even if you
you might say that you're not a natural risk taker
but in theory you
you've chosen to be in the armed forces
which might result in you going to somewhere
not very pleasant um
and yeah but maybe the
one of the things that's a risk mitigator
that's built into all that
one of the things that actually helps you
deal with that risk is
all of those other things that you've learnt
along the way and you were saying
you know why is recruitment um
done the way it's done
why can't I have this kind of band of brothers elite
um yeah
raw Marines type business
and you know
I must get I don't know
realistically four or five emails a day from recruiters
um different recruiters
you know a day saying
I've got the ideal candidates for you Richard
you know let's get in touch and go
never met these people they don't know my business
and so clearly what that what can't
what they're saying can't be true
yeah um yeah
but I'm getting it from lots of different people
every day hmm
so there's a big difference between that and what
what you're doing so um
maybe tell me a bit about what recruitment looks like
as industry in its worst form
and then what it looks like in its best form
so recruitment's got a bad rep OK
it's it's
you know it's not always highly regarded for
for some of the bad things that does exist in it um
and I've always taken the approach of we can
very quickly become much better than the rest
by just doing the basics correct
because the reason why it's going wrong
is because they're not doing the basic things correctly
and there are certain things that you must do um
I mean to name two of them it's
it's communication good communication from both sides
and setting clear expectations from the start
on both sides so I always like to ask lots of questions
OK um
cause I wanna understand
is this person on the same wavelength as me
now if we are kept at arms length by a business OK
that's gonna encourage poor behaviour
because that's where um
you know bad habits can can take place um
bad communication
and everyone gets frustrated by the whole process
and suddenly recruitment gets a bad name
and I'm not saying that that um
you know that the
some recruiters don't act poorly cause they do
and I've experienced it myself okay um
but for us
what we try and do is really build those relationships
with we don't wanna work with everybody OK
we wanna work with with
with people that work well with us OK
I think that's vitally important
that's being true to yourself yeah OK
yeah and if you
if you if you
if you're authentic and you get along with people
then it's gonna work naturally
it just will do and this is what
we had that first conversation last year
sometime it stuck out cause lots of people would say oh
you know we only wanna work with a
a a small number of clients
but when you say
we wanna work with a small number of clients
that work well with us
where we can be ourselves and they can be ourselves
that's kind of taking it to that really authentic level
it is it is you know
and I think that where you want to be is
we all want the same thing
at the end of the day
when we're going through recruitment on a campaign um
and that could be an individual role
or it could be a multiple roles at any one time
but we all want the same thing
so let's make our life as easy as possible
having clear communication
and set expectations at the start
this is what I expect if we're gonna work together
and equally what do you expect from me
if that's clear
then that's great and then it's through communication
the best people in the market
they go quick yeah
so if you're gonna if you're
if you're growing and scaling a business
you want the best people
you can't then kind of just go
go and find these people
we go and find them and then two weeks down the line
give feedback yeah
and then wonder get frustrated
because the recruiter's been chasing you up constantly
for feedback and then suddenly the candidate's gone
that's not gonna work well for your
party and it just delays that
you kicking the can down the road
or the problem down the road
so what we try and do is go right at the start
this is what we expect what do you expect
let's make sure that works and then ask a question
how is it a best communicating
some people like to communicate over email
some people like phone some people like WhatsApp
once you got that level and set an expectation
then it just goes much much more smoothly um
and it I think once again
it's that basic principles get the basic things right
OK because um
and it comes down to also the client you know
the bit I mentioned around
people who work well with us
is that
if you're a company that wants to keep a recruiter
arms length then you're fueling the problem
because you're not letting them in to the business
to understand your company
to be able to have those open conversations
to find the best people um
how
how do you get your leads and where's it get started
because you don't want it to start from the you know
I get an email on my in my inbox saying hey
I've got five of the best candidates in the country
and they're ideal for your business
when we've never spoken so yeah
it must come from somewhere else is that word of mouth
is it introductions
I would say if I look at the business now yeah
the majority of our work comes through recommendations
or referrals right
so that's whether that's a candidate
recommending us into their business
because they've worked with us
or it could be um
peer to peer it could be company to company um
that for us is is our biggest biggest strength
I suppose yeah um
and it's it's um
it but it's
you know it will
it that will stunt your growth to a certain degree
because you're limited by the network you have
but equally for me
and where I want the business that works for us
because I would much rather enjoy the
enjoy working with the customers that we work with
have fun along the way and do a very good job
and being recommended and referred
and rather than
fall into those horrible habits of having
just to it's what we spec candidates out
and you might get lucky yeah
and that for me I've
you know I probably did that earlier in my career
that's how I was taught but in reality it's not for me
you know um
lot to be said for that this is
you know I
I talk quite a lot about human centered leadership
at the end of the day
we're all people and you can only know so many people
and you know
we're all happiest when we've built
up some good relationships
and so that is gonna naturally limit ultimately the
the number of customers that you could service there
yeah but
it probably makes the whole thing a better experience
for everyone well
it does and I think it's about asking the question
so when you do have that kind of opportunity
and you suddenly
you managed to get hold of that person
don't if you
if you're going in saying what roles have you got
do you need any people they're probably gonna say no
yeah if you ask questions that are different
that are more kind of openness around
tell me about your business
what's the plans moving forward
what do you expect in 2026
what's your biggest challenges
and be a solution selling
in the same way that I'd expect you
you probably want your your guys to be solution LED
is about uncovering the problems
and then providing the the fix or the solution to
to their problems yeah
because otherwise
it's like somebody knocking on your door
just trying to trying to sell you something
it's like well
I don't need it when actually you might do but or the
the sell me the pen trick isn't it
you know you're only gonna sell the pen
to somebody who actually needs it
there's no point in trying to ram that down someone's
throat to go buy the pen
buy the pen off me yeah
yeah totally
um cause I don't need one
but the person who does need one does yeah
yeah absolutely um
so you've you've you've talked about the
the principles behind your business
you've talked about kind of the way that works
and what good looks like um
you interval group is doing really well
you do international work
all sorts of things um
and you're really focused around your space
which is climate tech and the energy transition so um
you you focused on this one place
what's taking you there
is it the mission or is it the market
definitely the mission the mission yeah yeah
um I think that
you know early stage recruitment career you
you gotta find gonna find your niche
um for me I um
we were doing a lot of work with um
it all started really with
I was working with a business that were doing
a lot of work with autonomous vehicles
and driverless cars
and that for me was like the real interest
I love the tech was like what driverless cars
this is fantastic this is amazing um
and then that very quickly um
turned into more um
decarbonization of transport
there's different different modes of transport
how do we move people around more smartly
and efficiently and just kind of made sense to me
I just kind of just got it and
and um
it was something that kind of really
I suppose I could see it happening
you know you
you you
you saw electric vehicle charging getting installed
you saw all the different apps
that were suddenly appearing
in your phone in order to get lime bikes or e scooters
I just generally saw I like to
I enjoyed being a part of growing those
those teams and those businesses um
and then the more and more you do it
I just kind of thought you know
then you have kids
and suddenly you start looking at yourself going
you know what's the world gonna be like for them
when we get older and we
we hear a lot around kind of global warming
and I thought look
I'm not gonna be the person who can create a technology
that's gonna save the world
but if I can work with companies
that are playing their part
in making the world
a better place for the climate
then I
I can say in years to come when I come to retire
I've played my part in
in in in making a difference or a change
so it's absolutely the mission around tryna
tryna make a better world for us all
and do you think that's something that sort of
big corporates do well at
as well
because I think for my own view is that for a long time
there was a lot of you know
the greenwash around and trying to put uh
put icing on uh on on on the cake
so to speak without ever baking the cake first
yeah um are you seeing that change now
is that turning it must be important to you
given that you're working with these businesses
and your mission driven yeah
I think um
I think it way it definitely goes on without a doubt
you know there's
there's that kind of box ticking exercise um
which is kind of one of the reasons why we
we moved away from working with
with large corporates and focused purely on on um
small founder LED VC
or P backed companies
that were kind of looking to grow and scale
cause they
I felt like their mission and purpose was a lot more
clear then just trying to place an ESF person into
into a large enterprise business
that would just have them for for
for a tick in the box exercise
so this is this is work that you do actually
now turn away back to the people you wanna work with if
I don't know a big multinational came to you and said
let's do some ESG stuff you've been saying no
thank you um
I think if unless they can really kind of sell it to us
and kind of say look
you know we
we we're looking for change
we want to really make a difference here
um given what we are
we have done that with companies
whereby they are traditional perhaps um
a a
a manufacturing business that
that want to really change
and you can see the investment they're putting into it
but if it's just a a
a one off kind of ticking the box
role just to kind of do some um
carbon accounting or something like that
then we'll skip scope free emission analysis
and for me it's like yeah
it's a no it's a no
it's a no
I'm presuming this is why you have now got your uh
B Corp status so congratulations
thank you thank you
yeah we
we we just
we've now two years if we've had it
so yeah very proud
um
are you able to tell me a bit about what that involved
doing and what it's what
you know what that means for your business in terms of
um yeah
both I guess both in terms of the brand
cause it's a good brand to have
but more importantly what it means for yeah
the sustainability of the company
yeah so I think
I think the it's
it's answering the why
why did we do it in the first place
I think
is because we were working in the sector and we wanted
I wanted us to be seen as a company that
that were not only um work in the sector
we wanted to become part of it
and that for us
was like the kind of rubber stamp of going
we're not just growing companies
and we're not just kind of
doing business with companies like this
we are actually taking those principles to ourselves
yeah um
which is why I mean
we've very recently just moved offices now to um
a place whereby we've got our own solar now um
and we we
really
making sure that everything that we choose to do now
has a positive impact and we wanted to demonstrate to
to to our customers that we're not just
we're not just talking about it
we're we're making
making steps to go forward ourselves
and we just have to really look at internally
ourselves around um
cause it's not just about
making sure that you're using a green energy provider
and you got double glazing windows
for example
it's about looking at the whole thing around
kind of how you are operating internally
what's your diversity levels
are you are you um
are you doing all those elements
and for us it made
we want to demonstrate or I wanted to demonstrate to
to our customers that we have something in common
um and I think that's probably
that was the reason why you did it
that's and are you finding that's useful for you
for attracting talent to your company
to your own business I
I think um
when when we're attracting people into
as in recruiters to us I think yes it
it showcases that we're serious about what we're doing
mm hmm um
you know and we
you we don't
we don't want people just kind of
come into the business um
because they want to kind of just go after the market
and they see as a growing market the
the the
the industry had its own challenges
you know um
but we want people who really kind of buy into it
so when we when I'm putting them in front of clients
they can confidently come across as authentic
that they are interested in
in in in this industry and and care about it as well
yeah because we should care about it
it's a very delicate situation and topic and
and space we're in right now
and I don't feel like we're in a world now
where we're talking enough about it
there's so many things going on across the world
right now that
are completely outside of a lot of our control
and I think we're kind of forgetting about the climate
question climate topic enough at the moment yes
that yeah I can see that point of view completely
so what next then for Interval Group
what's the what's the plan from here
yeah I think for us now we want to we want
we want we're hoping for some steady growth
we're very careful about how quickly we grow and scale
having having grown a business fast
and then kind of come back down again
when I when I first started the business
it was around we wanna be this big company
and you put all your numbers in a
in a in a PNL spreadsheet and it looks fantastic
and I'll have some form of exit in the years to come
some big event and off I can go into the sunset
that's changed over the years
over the five years and now
what I'm trying to create is a meaningful
purpose LED company
with recruiters that are experts in their field
aren't just good at going to find CVs and people
they actually bring value to companies
and help founders and companies grow and scale and
and help provide solutions to the problems they've got
that for me is so important
if we can get to the point
whereby we are seen as the go to people
where people go those guys are experts
we don't need we don't need 20
30 people I just need a handful of like the Marines
true specialists and experts in what they do
um where we can all benefit from that
not just the companies we work with
but the individuals that work for me
cause I want them to have better lives for themselves
I want them to I want them to so um
support their families in the best way possible
so we can use the company as a facilitator
for us all to win as well
that's something that we're really pushing forward for
for and
you know one of the things we wanna do is
is share the business amongst the employees
everyone pays a part
and also then cares about the business
mm hmm in the same way that I care about it
so it's not just kind of me in an ivory tower
I would hate anyone he works me to think that way yes
we're all we're all the same
we have a very flat you made that very clear
and it's an example of a which I
I think it's a really good example of a great business
and and
and bringing some uh excellent ways of working
and values to the things that you do
really exciting thank you
that brings us to our to well
to my final question um
Stewart and
and this is what I was gonna ask you
if someone's listening to this podcast
in five years time from now
what's the one message
that you would want them to take away with them
the one message is look
it's um
don't be afraid to be yourself
okay um
it's never too late
and if you ever need any help with anything
don't be afraid to ask
there's always people to help out
whether that's professionally or personally
just ask for help
and I think that for me is I'm an open book and yeah
my if anyone's listen to this and wants to
wants to approach wants to have a chat
please just drop me a message
I think that's wonderful that's beautiful
it's um great message for people
Stuart thank you for joining us today on the podcast
it has been a pleasure having you here
thank you very much Richard
it's been great thank you very much