When Talent Doesn’t Fade—But Opportunity Does: Aging, Art & Reclaiming Visibility

What happens when talent doesn’t fade—but opportunity does? In this powerful episode of The Elegant Shift, we explore aging in the arts, visibility after 50, and how women can reclaim purpose, creativity, and meaningful expression in midlife and beyond.

Helen sits down with celebrated director, choreographer, and creative force Lesley Ballantyne, who reflects on over 50 years in the entertainment industry. Together, they explore a rarely spoken truth about aging in the arts: it’s not talent that fades—but opportunity.

This conversation shines a light on the urgent need for stories that reflect the depth, wisdom, and vitality of older voices. In a culture where ageism in the arts limits visibility for women over 50, Lesley is helping reshape the narrative through Well Seasoned Productions—a theatre company dedicated to artists over fifty—creating space not only for seasoned performers to thrive, but for future generations to grow into.

A soulful, thought-provoking episode about creative aging, conscious aging, and the power of staying visible, expressed, and purposeful at every stage of life.

See the upcoming show of Well Seasoned Productions May 2-10/2026

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to the Elegant Shift, a podcast for women who know aging isn't a decline, it's a becoming. You've lived, learned, and gathered wisdom. Now it's time to embody your inner being and live from that truth. I'm Helen Bello, and here we explore conscious aging, soulful practices, and the art of living beautifully at every age. If you're ready to age with intention, confidence, and grace, you are in the right place. Welcome. There comes a moment in life and in art when experience becomes not just valuable, but vital. Today I'm in conversation with the extraordinary Leslie Ballantine, who we also happen to be cousins, and Leslie is celebrating over four decades in the Canadian entertainment industry. Her career is a masterclass in creative devotion, spanning roles as a director, choreographer, performer, producer, teacher, and arts administrator, from stages across Canada to the United States and even the Bahamas. Leslie has followed her creative spirit wherever it has led. She is the proud Dora Maven Moore Award winner and a Jesse Richardson Award nominee, and a former artistic director of the Muskoka Festival Theater, where she helped bring original Canadian musicals to life. Her work has touched everything from intimate storefront theaters to the iconic National Art Center in Ottawa. And her recent projects continue to shape the artistic landscape in meaningful ways. And what makes this conversation so powerful is not just the breadth of Leslie's accomplishments. It's her courage to name what so many artists quietly face as they age. Not a loss of talent, not a fading of ability, but a lack of opportunity. Because the truth is, we're not telling enough stories that reflect the richness, depth, and presence of older voices. And Leslie isn't just talking about it. She's doing something about it. Through Well Seasoned Productions, a theater company devoted to actors over 50, she and her colleagues are creating space where seasoned artists can continue to shine and where younger artists can continue to grow into the fullness of their own creative lives. This is a conversation about artistry, aging, relevance, and reclamation, about choosing not to fade, but to expand, and about telling stories that reflect the full spectrum of who we are becoming. Welcome to the elegant shift, Leslie.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Oh, Helen, thank you. That is the most extraordinary introduction I have ever had. I was listening to you going, I don't know who that person is. But I have one one correction, if you don't mind. It is just over five decades. Oh I age myself. Um I I know we're not supposed to be aging ourselves, but uh I am proud of surviving in our business uh for this long.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

That's remarkable. I guess I should have done the math, but I don't know how much older you are than me. So it's funny, even though we're cousins.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

And let's just say next birthday marks a really big transition to a new decade. Got it. Okay, I I just turned I'm I'm happy to say I just turned 69 in January, and I started my very first professional contract just after I turned 18. Oh my goodness. And and have managed to keep learning, trying to stay relevant, trying to grow my own artistic practice so that I had I had lots of opportunity. And working in Canada, it's very challenging to just have one avenue of work. Yes. I started off as a dancer. I decided I wanted to learn to be an actor. I took my singing lessons, I wanted to progress from working in the chorus, the ensemble, to supporting roles, to leading roles. Then I thought I have choreographic aspirations, I would like to flex that muscle. I was fortunate then to be hired as a director, choreographer, then artistic director, arts administrator. It's come full circle. And it's all sort of a gathering of skills and collecting it all to make what I hope is a good package to offer now through well-seasoned productions.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Congratulations. And, you know, you said you managed to survive five decades. I actually hear you thriving and creating and continuously through those five decades.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

I will not say that it there haven't been challenges as one sort of leaps over becoming the next uh version of oneself. And in Canada, we we tend to put our performers into boxes. So for a long time it was Leslie the Dancer, and then it became Leslie the Ingenieux, and then Leslie the the arts administrator. And it and I I have to say, to get out of one of the boxes, I used to have two resumes, two performing resumes. One that acknowledged my dance and musical theater background, and another that was just acting roles. Because for a long time in the 80s and into the 90s, casting directors and directors wouldn't take a musical theater performer seriously as an actor. So I I changed, I had two resumes, and when I was going for an acting role, I handed out just the just the resume that listed acting roles, and when I was going for a musical theater role, just the just the resume that had musical theater things on it. Uh it was a fascinating lesson that helped me learn not to put people in boxes.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Wow. And it's changed, I think, you know, in terms of how people are seen in the industry now. Thank goodness. And that's partly just the changes in our our own consciousness around inclusivity and embracing all the different styles, the different genres, and allowing people to express themselves in more than one way.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

And yes, I agree. And I and I wonder, Helen, if it's people that grew up in the business of my generation who then said, I don't want to put people in boxes. I want to hire you because you bring something to the role that I'm casting, or I feel you can add to this ensemble, rather than casting on height, look, weight, color of skin, look of hair. All of those things used to be the boxes that we were placed in. And I think now we're very much casting on the ability of that person to bring a role to life, which I love. I absolutely adore.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

And that is, for me, that's when I'll call it spirit or this vital energy is seen beyond all the other looks and and color of skin and everything else. It's like, what is that person's spirit wanting them to really express? And how are they bringing this energy and creativity and life to a role?

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Yeah. What what story can I tell? How can I help bring this to life through myself? Because ultimately, as performers, we just have ourselves to draw on. And, you know, we can pretend, we change, but I don't want to be limited by the stories that I can tell based on look.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

I love that. Makes my heart sing for sure. And you now have stepped out of a box and into an incredible production create uh creation of a production company called Well Seasoned Productions that is allowing people over 50 actors, singers, dancers, performers, to continue to bring their creative selves to light.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Yes. And and thank you for letting me talk about it. Uh it is it is an adventure. I'll I'll tell you that right up front. Uh when when we were first getting started, 2026 marks our tenth year. Oh. Trying to promote seniors. And our very first mentor, when we were getting started, it it began with a group of us basically getting together for coffee and kveching about the fact that work opportunities were drying up. You know, and a number of us had had a a good amount of success moving from role to role, working, growing our own talent, growing our own abilities, and and lots and lots of work. And just all of a sudden, around 50, 52, things just sort of started to peter off, and there were very few roles available for older performers. And the same group of us were going after now this one role, where perhaps there used to be 10 or 15 or you know, more opportunities to work. So we we got together for coffee and muffins and we said, what are we going to do about it? And we were very fortunate, Helen, that we were connected with Dr. Joseph Green, who is uh he is he is passed away now, but Joe was our very first mentor who encouraged us to keep going. And he was the founding director of the York Theater Program at York University here in Toronto. And there's a theater named after him. And and Joe told us that it would be like pushing a boulder up a hill. And I'll have to say, after 10 years, yes, I'm still pushing the boulder up the hill. But the reward and the feedback that we've had and the positivity is what keeps us going. And I am blessed right now. There was a former head of the Canada Council named John McKeller, who was a lawyer, philanthropist, a producer of films and theater and television. Uh his son is John McKeller, one of the writers of The Drowsy Chaperone.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

And many other things. But John and I had a meeting after we were sort of moving along, after we'd done this for a couple of years. And I asked him, I said, I said, is this just a really good once-a-year volunteer thing that we do to promote seniors, or or is there a business model that we should try and move forward? And he looked at me bluntly and he said, I enjoy what you're doing, but you need to be incorporated as a not-for-profit company and you need to have a charitable number. And I sighed and I said, How much is the incorporation going to cost us? And he said, I will do it for you pro bono. You go after the charitable number.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

And so Which is also a very full-on job to get a charitable number in Canada.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Oh, Helen, it was it was a task. But John did our incorporation, COVID hit and closed everything down, and I spent nine months going back and forth with a very receptive person at the charities directorate in Canada who helped me craft an application and we were successful in obtaining our charitable number. So we joked that we were now a real company, kind of like a real boy when Pinocchio says you've gone from an ad hoc company to now an incorporated company and a charitable number. And it allowed us to be taken a little more seriously that we had substance and we had we had a base. So I have a lovely board of directors. David Warwick, who is now 81 soon in a couple of days. David is a composer, musical director, extraordinaire.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

I remember you doing a show with David Warwick in the 80s. Absolutely you and your husband Scott.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yep, that that was on tap. David David was our opening song, and and Scott had worked with David, I think, since the late 70s, to age everybody.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

And I remember also Jeff Hislop was a part of that show.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yes, one of my very favorite dance partners. Just a delight. He has he has moved back to Vancouver, so we don't see him as often as we would like. But the so there's there's David Jane Gardner, who is an arts administrator, extraordinaire. Rhoda Green, who is Dr. Joe Green's widow, but she in herself is a published author and a brilliant concert pianist at 91, and still vibrant and contributing to the arts life. And the last one is Charlotte Moore of the famous Dora Maver Moore family, and she brings her expertise to our board to help us move everything along. And I have, I have to mention that I have three Stalwart volunteers. Trish Adams does a lot of our administration. Mark Candler takes care of a lot of our promotion, front of house. He's my assistant director on the current show. And Mark Cassius, who is a teacher extraordinaire and formerly of the nylons, lends his house practice to us. So I have a really wonderful group of people to draw on to say how do we keep moving this project forward? And then I'll be so bold as to mention my advisory, which is Jim Betts, again, a musical theater writer, director, extraordinaire. Kate Barris, who is an author, you might know any of her work from children's shows, Sharon Lois and Bram, Polka Dot Door, Today's Special, all of those things. And Valerie Boyle, who is a Canadian performer with Broadway contracts, and just very generous when I ask them for their opinion, their assistance. They jump in and meet me for coffee, or we have a Zoom call, and I say, How am I going to do it this time? And everybody jumps in with ideas and and everyone, again, generous of time. It's all volunteer.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

But also what a testament to your vision, your commitment, Leslie, that you have that many incredible artistic powerhouses behind you supporting you.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

I thank my lucky stars every day, saying that that people jump in to say, how can I help? And I think it's it's just, Helen, that they see the value in promoting senior artists and celebrating our senior artists.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Well, and don't you think it's time that we started celebrating senior artists and bringing more artistic opportunities to people that might not normally ri get them in the regular industry?

SPEAKER_00 16:04

That's it. One one of our mandates or one of the one of the lessons that we keep learning, because it it takes time to practice and figure out how to do this, is when when we become a little older, we'll just say that little older. I think you're there. Well, there are there are times that that performers who have had perhaps a very long career in with specifics, say, how do I continue to work when I don't hear as well as I used to, I don't see as well as I used to, I have mobility challenges or joint replacement, or I have chronic illness. And and one of the things that Well Seasoned is doing is learning how do we make what I call quiet accommodations for those kinds of perceived limitations. But in our mind, it doesn't limit, it doesn't limit their ability to be a professional, a performer, and to move audiences. Yeah, I like that you said perceived limitations. It's all about, you know, can can I go up the stairs as quickly as I used to? Can I stick my leg up over my head anymore? Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

No.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

But it doesn't mean I can't tell a story in my own way now. And we've we've made accommodations, as I say, for for for low vision, for hearing loss, things even like Parkinson's disease. We've had performers, another performer who had dystonia, which means there's there's lack of muscle tone. And it's just trying to figure out how do we help you get back on stage to feel positive, to tell your story, to move the audience. And the reaction that we get from the audience a lot of the time is I saw myself up there on stage. Right. Which is to me, that's that is the most gratifying thing. And, you know, watching television, we British television tends to show real people. Yes, it does. I'm a Brit box fan. But we're we're not so good about showing reality here in North America yet.

unknown 18:21

No.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

And I I have said to various performers when they've said, well, I, you know, I I I can't be on stage, I don't wear heels anymore. I just have to wear flat shoes. I said, Well, then wear flat shoes. If the audience is looking at your feet, we're not doing our job very well.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

And, you know, and and questions about wearing glasses. Well, then wear glasses if you need them to see. These days I am having to wear them a lot myself. And well, that's my that's my aid. It helps me continue to do what I do. But there are a number of people in our audiences that also wear glasses. So it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

And I love that you say it doesn't matter because it doesn't. It's it really is the vibrancy and energy and creativity that comes through. And so we were talking a little bit about this before I hit the record button around well, we were talking about a few things, but I I know so your mom and my dad were brother and sister. And how do you think your mom influenced and shaped what you're doing today, Leslie? Because your mom was an extraordinary woman. Thank you for for saying so.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

It is uh she was perhaps the best role model of taking on challenges, not giving up, and saying, I can do better when when she was working, when we were were kids, and she would go to work and she would, you know, she was always a role model about women can do what they prefer.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Well, and she was a head nurse at the North York hospital?

SPEAKER_00 20:10

At at North York Branson, and she she started Ellen as a public health nurse when she first moved from Alberta here with my dad to Toronto and went through being an emergency room nurse to a you know a ward nurse to in charge, so-and-so up the administration ladder or up the ladder. And when she retired, she she retired as the head of nursing at at the North York Branson Hospital. And she was very chuffed to learn that it took two women with PhDs to replace her.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

She well, yes, and she was, like I said, extraordinary in that she was a she was incredibly bright and could see a bigger picture. That's what I remember, as well as having the kindest, most compassionate heart.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Well, thank you. She I I agree, and I I live, I do my best to live up to her standard as I moved through my years. She had when she when she wanted her own car, she and my dad used to just share a car because you know there was lots of transportation in the city, but she wanted her own car to go and visit her grandchildren when she retired. And she said, I'd I'd like a vanity license plate. What shall I have? And I said, You should have wise one. Because I think she is the wisest person I have ever met, and and a very compassionate person. So we had a WYS one was her license plate. And when she had a stroke at 79 uh and could no longer drive, she gifted me her license plate. So every day I aspire to be wise one. I've kept the license plate, it's on my On my car and and I do I'm not certain I I'm not certain that I have her compassionate ability to understand everything, but I try.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Well, that's doing the best you can each day, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yeah. That's that's our job.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Before we continue, I want to take a moment to share something close to my heart. As we age, life calls us to slow down, reflect more deeply, and reconnect with who we truly are. But how often do we give ourselves that sacred pause? That is why I love my dear friend Barbara Burke's creation of the I Am Divine meditation cards. I use them daily as part of my own morning practice. Each card offers a gentle affirmation and soulful reflection, reminding me that I'm not just aging, I'm evolving. They have been such a meaningful part of my life that I've gifted them to friends, clients, and women I love. Because I believe every woman deserves a moment each day to feel centered, seen, and spiritually nourished. Whether you're beginning your day, ending it, or simply needing a moment of stillness. These cards are a beautiful way to reconnect with your essence. Because aging isn't about fading, it's about becoming more fully you. Visit imdivine.com to order your own set of cards. There's also a journal, the app, and even a set of children's I Am Divine cards. Honor your journey, nourish your spirit. You are divine. And so how do you bring your wisdom and inspire these actors to continue performing? Because you have a you have a show coming up. Tell us a little bit about the show and and how how do you do that, Leslie? How do you how do you encourage them to keep to continue on?

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Well, usually it's it we put out an ask. And and quite upfront about it, right now, our three levels of arts councils have yet to see the value in what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

That's shocking.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

No funding from Toronto Arts Council, Ontario Arts Council, or Canada Council yet. Although I am forever hopeful that that they will see what we're doing as a as a good thing. But we have had since the very beginning, my member of Parliament is Julie DeBrusen. And she bought in very early to the idea that we wanted to support seniors and we wanted to encourage them to reflect to other seniors that it was okay to be older. And it was okay to have some kind of mental or physical or health challenges, but you could still be vibrant and creative and relevant. So she has written me uh letters of reference, and what we survive on is a federal grant called the New Horizons for Seniors. And I apply for it every year. Some years we're successful, some years we're not. Uh some years they tell me they have to give the money to somebody else. But it allows us to rent a theater, rent rehearsal space, and our performers come in on the Canadian Actor Equity Collective Agreement, which means they get paid from the box office, but all of our hard costs are covered. And so the route is we obtain funding. I put out a call to people saying, This is the theme of the show. Do you have something that you want to tell? Is there a story you want to work on? And then we have meetings and workshops, and usually we get eight or ten people that come together and say, I'd like to be a part of this. And then they bring their story and and we we fit it all together. And there's there's no, it it's a puzzle as we as we work it together. People bring forward a number, we listen to it, we we look at it, say, how will that fit? How can this tell the story? Oftentimes I'll figure out what it is I want to tell for the opening number, maybe a closing number in between, and then suggestions from everyone putting it all together. It is very much a collective effort. And on my part, and this year with Mark Candler as my assistant director, it's very much a listening exercise. How do we help you tell the story you need to tell? And how do we support you in order to do that the best way possible?

SPEAKER_02 26:42

And so what are some of the challenges you've bumped up against?

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Oh, well, let's with this particular show. Which is called With a Song in My Heart. The song in my heart. And it it sounds, given the realities, Helen, of what's going on in the world right now, we are very much trying to promote the fact that love is what the world needs.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

Oh, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

It's there's just, as the song goes, there's just too little of it. So we are trying to promote that, that it it is about love and connection with community and not excluding people because of differences, but trying to include them to enrich our own lives. And the the first act finale, I don't want, don't want to give too much away, but the first act finale is a song from Godspell, a rewritten version called Beautiful City. I know the song. Yes, and and when when it was originally in the 70s version, it was sort of an upbeat, you know, but this one, Stephen Schwartz rewrote it, and it is a stunning anthem to what we think the world needs.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

I am so excited that I am finally getting to see your show. And that will be I I'm just thrilled that you're doing this. For you, putting all of this together, what has been one of the most joyful or inspiring moments?

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Oh, when I uh Kieran McMillan is our youngest senior. He is our musical director, and he is just a gem and a joy to work with. His his musicality, his ability to work with our cast members and bring out the best from them is spectacular. And when I finally get into rehearsal and we hear the harmonies, the songs, the medleys put together, for me to sit in the rehearsal hall, the joy that washes over is palpable for me. It is, it's restoring, it means that I feel that I should keep going on this adventure of pushing well-seasoned productions forward. You asked about a challenge. Well, the challenge for this one was we had booked into the uh new Nancy and Ed Jackman Theater the third week of November last year. And we were in the theater, we had our lighting all done, the cast was arriving with costumes on Wednesday. I had taken the crew out for dinner, and we arrived back and they had a flood, and the theater was flooded. So the we could have done singing in the rain on the floor. It was squish, squish, squish, squish, squish, but we said, no, that's that's not really good. So I had to send everybody home. It was it was one of the hardest things I have done in my entire career was to cancel a show that had sold tickets, that had actors ready to bring their best. And and we canceled that. We rebooked for February 23rd at the same theater, and I had an email from their manager in the middle of January telling me the repairs were not going to be ready. Not easy. So not being one to give, which I think I learned from my parents, do not give up. There's always a solution. I went through a list of more than 20 theaters, and then six came to the top, had to go through what availability was, what affordability was, and we have settled on a very small theater called Video Cabaret, which is only 54 seats, but we'll run it for eight shows rather than the four. So I can meet I can meet my grant parameters of number of people that we're trying to reach with the eight shows. And the performers, we just have to hope that they have the energy to keep going for eight shows when they had committed to four. So that's a challenge. But so far everybody's feeling good about it.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Oh, that's fantastic. Now, is this with the song of my heart? Is that what was going to be the show last November?

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Yes, this is this is exactly the same show, same rehearsing, same cast. Miraculously, we've got everybody, everybody ready back to to go fitting it in until May the 2nd, May, till May the 10th. And I just have fingers crossed that third times the charm, as they say.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

It is third times the charm. And just so people know, the show runs from Saturday, May 2nd to Sunday, May 10th. And tickets are available on Eventbrite.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yes. Yes. And the easiest way, Helen, if I if I can interrupt to get there, is to go to our website. If they go to wellseasonedproductions.ca, there's a ticket link that takes you directly to the page that has all eight shows. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

And I will put that in the in the show notes as well. Yeah. I'm in awe. I'm inspired. I'm I had to, I must say, I was a little bit nervous before this interview because, and I'm I don't usually get nervous, but I think because we're cousins, but we don't we we know each other more in the last probably what five years or I can't remember the day I came over to your house and we went through a whole lot of family history. I think it must have been more than five years ago. I I think I think it was more like 12 or 13 because I was still living in the beach at that time.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

I think you might be right. And I I think that's we're not doing very well.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

We'll have to recognize we will have to reconcile that. And so I was like, wow, how is this gonna go? And and what I am most inspired by, and I think maybe it runs in our DNA around this idea of service, of love, of continued curiosity and growth and creativity. And I would say both of our parents had an awful lot of that in them.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

And Helen, I I agree, but and the curiosity on your side of the family was in exploration. Yes. Uh was sort of like oh really? Uh you you risked life and limb to go explore. It it is it is a fascinating history to have in the the family. And you know, going back to to the grandparents, to the Rileys, moving to Alberta before it was a province and homesteading and I I just live in the city and I just put on shows. I mean, to you know, to to talk about being brave. It's uh it's interesting when I've been teaching to talk to my students about what it is they want to do. And I've said, like, truthfully, nobody needs what we do. It's not like food, it's not like shelter, it's not clothing. But as I've grown myself, I'm coming to find that that entertainment that empowers and reflecting people back to themselves is actually quite vital. And that's that's been a growth on my own to to look at what other people do, look at what my family members have done, what my friends have done, and say, oh, what what you do is important. It has substance, it has relevance. And I've always sort of thought, well, you know, I I just I just do shows, I I make people laugh or I make people cry, or, you know, I I entertain them by dancing or singing. But again, this journey through well-seasoned has been a big eye-opener and and it's been an epiphany for me. What is important? And and you were talking about love and soul and and how do we maintain relevance and our elegance as we age. It's a it's a good learning curve.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

It's a fantastic learning curve. I love it. I because I don't know what's next, I don't know what life has in store, but I'm open to possibility as I see you're open to possibility. You don't know where well-seasoned productions will go in the future, but there's so many possibilities for it. And I see the arts as food for the soul that nurtures us in our heart space. And that is to me just as relevant as a neurosurgeon or a police officer or who a teacher or whomever. I mean, everyone has their relevance, including people in the arts. And we just have to get to land in the heart space. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

It's it we just have to keep promoting that there is relevance and and the arts are necessary. It pains me when I I watch budgets, school budgets, uh provincial budgets, city budgets, and the arts are always the first thing cut. Oh, I know. And I I I grew up, Helen, you know I I grew up in the city, and that the TDSB had a fantastic arts budget that uh that, you know, apart from my my private training that my parents sent me to for dance classes, when I was in grade six, we had we had been studying orf music, which was always you're familiar, it's about rhythm instruments and and you know, making music and and learning learning learning note values and and working together. And when I was in grade six, our our homeroom teacher encouraged us to write a musical. And we wrote an original musical. We had an orf band, we wrote the song lyrics, we performed them. I got to be the choreographer. We made our own sets, our own costumes, and we performed. And I thought, why don't we do this now? Why why aren't children learning that the arts are relevant and they have educational value?

SPEAKER_02 37:22

I don't know. I have to say because my daughter is a teacher. She teaches for the Durham School Board. She grew up, I mean, playing violin, went to Etobicoke School of the Arts, played in orchestras. It was very much a part of her life. That girl played so many instruments over the course of six or seven years. And I say to her, take your violin, take your ukulele. And she's like, Mom, they're not an arts-based school. It's all about sports. Now, I love sports. Sports are great, but why can't it be both? And these kids are not getting any kind of musical introduction or connection, starting as young as kindergarten.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Well, and you know, the there are studies that show that music assists math brains. Oh, absolutely. And and yet we we sort of deny it. I the the manager of uh of this little video cabaret space, we we did talk about this at length about what well seasoned is and what his uh you know thoughts are for their the space. And he said, I'm so concerned that they only are limiting education to STEM. And I think it should be STEAM. So add the A for arts. Yeah. Because they all work together. And yet, you know, as I sit here, the arts get cut, and and your daughter's school, why focus just on the one when we could have all sorts of layers that support each other? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

And that that creates a more coherent, integrated human being when there are all those layers interwoned and connected. So, and you know what's interesting also because there's so much research coming out about the value of music and dance for people that are aging and how it increases brain function. It helps people with Parkinson's and dementia. And you're positioned perfectly for what you're doing. For assisting. Assisting.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

Is to run a community choir with professionals through South Riverdale Community Health Center. And and last year we ran it, we had 27 choir members. There was no expectation that anybody needed to have sung before, read music. They just had to jump in and say, I would, I would like to try singing. And we ended up doing two performances, one at the uh the Gower uh Harmony Hall, which is their their sort of more northerly place, one down on Queen Street. And the the reception and the the result was they all came to us afterwards and said, please, you have to find more funding. We have to keep this going. So this current grant that I'm I'm just starting to work on, we will do it again with them. And we're hoping to expand the number of choir members. And in in my research, Helen, one of the things that I've been looking at is the benefit to the body of vibration. And I think ancient religions have understood it. They understand about chanting, they understand about humming, they understand about vibration. Western medicine, we're mostly poo-pooing, but I've been reading more about the the impact of singing on the vagus nerve, which travels all the way through the body. And I was speaking about it to my uh optometrist last month when I went and I and he said, you know, what are you doing? And I blah, blah, blah, about what well-seasoned. And I talked about this, this sort of looking into the impact of singing on the vagus nerve. He got so excited. He went to his bookcase, he got out his textbook from 1977, showed me pictures, and said, This is wonderful what you're doing. It will impact the whole body. And I I just said, okay, so we're on to just one more layer of what the impact is we can do that I never actually intended. It was just about getting seniors on stage and and doing what we do and hopefully doing it well. And this, it's just gotten so many layers and so complicated. I'm so excited about continuing. It's just trying to figure out how do how do we keep moving along? How do I learn more about this impact and how do I help people explore it themselves?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Oh my goodness. You are one curious woman. You are so open. And to really explore all of that is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

It's it's fun. One one of the other grants that we got was from the Ontario government, and it's a seniors community grant, and it allowed me to take five people into seniors' homes, residences, long-term care, and we would do, we would perform some songs, and we had a book of sing-along songs. And we also told everyone there was permission. If they wanted to sing along with a performance song, just do that. We like having a chorus and ensemble. And sometimes you can hear them. It's like, oh, you're you sound delightful. They sing along. And then we finish with, please keep singing. It's good for your health, it's good for your posture, it improves breathing, it improves articulation. And I think, I think we forget that there's joy in just singing in the shower or humming as we go about our lives making dinner. Yeah. So I would say, like I said, this this is a big learning curve, not what I, not what I intended to do 10 years ago, but it just keeps growing and adding layers and adding layers and adding layers.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

I love that. I mean, I think for me, one of the most joyous times with music was when I was the spiritual director at the Center for Spiritual Living, and we had this incredible band and singers, and the entire community would sing, and it was joyful and uplifting, and there was this high vibration of energy that would happen. And of course, any place I've been where there's this incredible music happening, it does raise our vibration. It does something to our brains, it does something to our heart. And yes, our whole entire nervous system. So I'm absolutely thrilled for you.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Well, when you come to the show in May, you'll be invited to sing along on the encore.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

Oh, good. And your choir would be for me because I cannot carry a tune. I don't know what happened. My dad, your uncle, was a phenomenal singer. I did not. I did not inherit his capacity and ability to sing as beautifully as he did, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

But my appreciation for music is certainly as a result, well, I think it's a result of both of my parents, but and you should still whether you whether you feel you can carry a tune or not, the impact of doing and singing is important for the body. And and it always improves. In in fact, just as a quiet comment, we did have at least one choir member in the last community choir who was not always on tune. And my colleague and I would listen and go, someone's singing harmony. I hear harmony. And as we got closer, it's like, no, that's just not even close to the tune. And it And that's okay. There were no expectations, and he was enthusiastic and he enjoyed it. And and it didn't bother anybody else. It didn't bother anything. But the fact that he was joyful singing meant it was it was an important time for for him. And we just said that's great.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

Aww. And how nice that you could be so generous with that, right? Some people aren't, but it's it's to see the overall picture of the joy and the vibration of that.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

And and I'm I have to admit, I probably would not be quite so generous if it was happening in one of the professional shows. Oh, of course not. In the community choir, that is that's just what we're looking for. It's come come and breathe, improve your posture. We do physical warm-up, we do vocal warmups, they're learning all sorts of things. And I'm hopeful he'll join again and improve. There's always room for improvement.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Always. And always room for expansion. And I love what you're doing, Leslie. I'm honored to have had this conversation with you. Thank you so much for sharing this part of your life with not only me, but the audience. And I will put in the show notes links to your website and the dates for the show as well. And I wish you all the best. And I look forward to seeing you. I am attending on May 3rd, Sunday, May 3rd in the afternoon. So I have a few friends coming with me. I've wrangled them.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Yay! Yay! Yay. Well, thank thank you for the opportunity to talk about my passion. My, I guess it's my current passion. And and just to close off, Helen, I have said in past, because I I have worked with so many people over the years and I've lost them. I've I've lost people people die at at various times, oftentimes far too young for for my own liking. Nobody asks me my opinion on it, though. But I I have said in past, I don't know how much sand I have left in my hourglass, but I'm really enjoying how I'm spending it right now. I I think it's it's making a difference. It's making me have opportunities to learn and grow. And I think the challenge, I think what you're also promoting is if we don't continue to learn and grow, we stagnate and we get old.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

We do. And we disappear. And it's like, oh, to not disappear, to not feel invisible and to really allow our, you know, each and every person has something to offer.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

Yes. And we just have to allow them the opportunity to open up and offer it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

Yes. Thank you again for this conversation, Leslie. Many blessings to you.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for being here, Elegant Soul. If something in today's episode stirred you, share it with a woman who's ready to embody her inner being and step into her next chapter. To go deeper, visit elegantaging.ca for practices, programs, and inspiration. And remember, aging isn't something to endure, it's something to embody and create. Until next time, live fully and age elegantly.