Addiction in Our Backyard: What’s Happening—and What’s Working

In this episode of the Blue Dot Podcast, Natalie MacDonald and Brian Koehl talk with nationally recognized policy expert Meagan Guthrie about the evolving addiction and overdose crisis. They explore how today’s challenge extends beyond opioids, driven by fentanyl and polysubstance use, and why some communities are hit harder than others.

The conversation highlights what’s working—from deflection programs to expanded naloxone access—while also addressing the broader impact on families and communities. Most importantly, it focuses on solutions: reducing stigma, improving access to care, and taking simple, actionable steps to support recovery.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Blue Dot, Northern Kentucky's Premier Political Podcast. Brought to you by the Kent County Democratic Executive Committee. Welcome back to the Blue Dot Podcast, where we break down the issues affecting our communities and the policies shaping our future. Today we're talking about something that has touched nearly every family in our region and beyond: addiction and the opiate crisis. Thanks for joining. I'm Natalie McDonald.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

And I'm Brian Cale. Northern Kentucky, including Kenton County, has been on the front lines of this epidemic. And while we've seen progress in recent years, the crisis is far from over. We are really grateful to be joined by Megan Guthrie, who has worked directly with addiction response initiatives, presented to Congress, and works every day at the intersection of public health, public safety, and policy to save lives and support recovery. Megan, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Thank you so much for having me. Yes, thank you so much for being here. Well, let's kick it off. Can you share a little bit about your experience and your expertise so our audience can get to know you a little better?

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Yeah, sure. So um my name is Megan Guthrie. I'm a northern Kentucky resident. I currently live in Ludlow, Kentucky with my husband, Gil, and our black lab, Zoe. Uh, I was raised in northern Kentucky. I was a graduate of Walton Verona High School and went on to attend Xavier University in Cincinnati and college, where I studied in a program called PPP. It was philosophy, politics, and the public. It was an honors program. And I later earned my graduate degree from there as well, doing it in private interest and public good. And what I really loved about my time at Xavier was really how a lot of the programs focused on that intersection between, you know, philosophy, political science, history, economics, what have you. But it really emphasized that real-world application through public service and internships. And that's where really where my love of policy and public service and engagement began. And so I've been in the public policy space about 11 years now. I've worked on political campaigns, government relations. Uh, I spent two years in the nonprofit sector focused on workforce development for individuals impacted by substance use disorder, mental health challenges, as well as developmental disabilities. Uh, and that's really when I started to dip my toe into the behavioral health and social services space uh until where I'm at now, which I've been with uh for the past seven years in my current role, really focusing uh, Brian, as you mentioned, on different addiction policy, deflection programming, drug trends, coalition building, some opioid settlement strategy and impact. And Brian, you mentioned as well, I've had the honor of presenting to Congress. Um, I've actually had the ability to do it twice, which I feel so fortunate to be able to do once in 2023 and again in 2025, both to the Congressional House Caucus on Addiction Treatment and Recovery. I've also been able to work with White House administrations through their Office of National Drug Control Policies. It's been an uh incredibly meaningful uh process to be able to learn and grow within the addiction and drug policy space the last handful of years. And so I'm really excited to be here today to be able to share some of that work with you all.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

That's a really impressive background experience. We're uh so happy to have you to discuss this really important topic. And so uh let's start off by setting the stage broadly. You know, we all hear people talk about the opioid crisis, but can you dig into exactly what that means? I mean, I feel like it's more complex of an issue to boil it down to just opioid crisis. So is uh, you know, we dive into this discussion, it's it'd be good for us and our audience to have a full understanding of what all it encompasses.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Yeah, and I I think you kind of hit the nail on the head. I think what we're really talking about is a broader overdose and substance use crisis that's really evolved over time, and what it looks like now is very different than it did even five, 10 years ago. So the opioid crisis has certainly hit our communities hard. And that's because opioids and particularly synthetic opioids like fentanyl have been the single biggest driver of overdose and overdose deaths in recent years. But, you know, it's important to understand that all of this stuff didn't happen in a vacuum. You know, we've had substance use trends in this country that have evolved over time, and each kind of era of the drug crisis has brought us its own set of challenges. Uh, you know, in the 60s and 70s, we saw the rising heroin usage followed by the crab cocaine epidemic in the 80s and 90s, and that had devastating impacts on many of our Black and African American communities. And then in the late 1990s to early 2000s, that's when we started to enter into this kind of prescription opioid era, which then transitioned into increased heroin usage in the early 2010s. And so now we're currently in that phase where it is dominated by synthetic opioids, and that's but I think part of that is that we really are seeing a polysubstance use crisis. So while fentanyl and carfetanol are still some of the primary drivers of overdose deaths, the crisis now is we're talking about different stimulants of cocaine and methamphetamine, synthetic drugs with counterfeit and pressed pills, unfortunately, animal tranquilizers and sedatives like xylazine and metatomidine. Uh, it's a very unpredictable drug supply. And oftentimes what we say in the space is that the only thing predictable about our drug supply is how unpredictable it is. So that's been interesting to try to learn all of those new drug trends to try to make sure that our response is appropriate uh to meet the public health and public safety needs of our community.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

That's an interesting thing to think about, is looking back through history and how it has changed. Can you say that is it has it gotten worse because there are more drugs and drug combinations? Or do you feel like it's it's kind of the same, it's just in a different way? I don't know if you can speak to that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah, it's it's really interesting. You know, in my role, we have the opportunity to talk with individuals with lived and living experience. So people that are in active substance use. And with how intense the polysubstance use has been, their call is like, we just want the old classic, just heroin or crack cocaine, the laced and the particularly the tranquilizers. It's unfortunately, you know, it causes severe wounds. There's a lot of complications. Some of them are requiring ICU level of detox. And so this polysubstance use is very dangerous, very deadly to our community. And so it has gotten more intense as the drug supplies continue to shift. And so that is something that we're keeping our eyes on and having those communications with individuals that we serve in the community. But it has been challenging to navigate. And unfortunately, you know, the drug dealers, the suppliers are very creative and innovative. So we also have to be innovative in our innovative in our response. So that's been a big piece as well.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

So let's look at some of the statistics around the overdoses. In Kentucky, there were 1,400 uh residents that died from drug overdose in 2024. And that's a decrease of 30% from the previous year. But it looks like Kenton County has seen a little bit of an an uptick, and it's consistently seen as one of the highest number of fatal overdoses in Northern Kentucky happen in Kenton County and even more than in Boone and Campbell counties. And is there a reason for that? Is it because the corridor goes right into Cincinnati or or is there any trends that you can speak to about what's happening in our region particularly?

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Yeah, so I will say, although I'm a Kenton County resident, I'll be honest, I spend a lot more time analyzing the Ohio trends just due to my professional role. But that being said, I think you you hit on a couple. There are some consistent patterns that you can definitely look at when you're trying to understand why certain communities might be impacted more than others. Uh Kenton County, you know, I think we're not unusual from other communities with our kind of geography, our population density, potential trafficking routes, and some of those common urban stressors. Um, you know, we're very densely populated. And so with a higher density, you're naturally going to see more of those overdose events, more visible housing instability or homelessness, more of that transient population, you know, the higher calls for service. Um, so, but I think another important factor is also, you know, how we track data. So there can be a difference as well in the data based on a person's residence versus where that person may have overdosed or where that overdose occurs. People may not be using and overdosing at home. They might be, you know, in a region like ours where people are moving across state lines constantly. You know, Ken County is often that first landing point from Cincinnati. We've got so many bridges and interstates. And so people may be purchasing substances in one jurisdiction, but using them in another. And so when we're looking at data as well, that that could be a factor as we start to dive into the data a little bit deeper. But I think also kind of zooming out, some of those older, more urban communities can often carry some more long, longer-term burdens as well when it comes to substance use. Um, you know, if there's a community that's been hit with disinvestment or economic hardship or housing instability or increased justice involvement, you're gonna tend to see the severe impacts of overdose mortality hit those older urban cores a little bit more than some of the suburban areas of northern Kentucky. But that being said, I mean, Kenton County has been doing some truly exceptional work in the addiction response space. I know the Kenton County Detention Center has a nationally recognized model for their jail beast treatment and post-release wraparound supports. Also, the Northern Kentucky Office of Drug Control Policy, Amanda Peters there, she's leading a fantastic effort. I know that they recently have been rolling out their law enforcement navigator program as well, partnering with different jurisdictions across the region to make sure that there's a really good coordinated regional response to the substance use and addiction challenges. So while while the challenges have been real for Kenton County, I think so is the progress. And I think that that's been really great to see what's effective response can look like here in northern Kentucky.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

It just seems like it's so multifaceted. There's so many things that go into this.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Right. The the the statewide, the statewide coordination is, I mean, that's really important, I'm sure. And um I thought it was interesting the evolution of the the drugs of choice, shall we say, from maybe, I don't know if if the word is organic, but from heroin cocaine to now more synthetic and prescription drugs. And I had not really realized until in your introduction there, kind of like your background, talking about the different ways that you have to respond and and the more intense and complex means to of uh support and recovery and uh emergency situations that can derive from that. Um, you know, statewide data shows that fentanyl is now involved in over 70% of overdose deaths in Kentucky. And many people, I mean, they don't even know they're exposed because it's mixed into other drugs like cocaine or methamphetamine. So how is the rise of fentanyl and any other synthetic drugs in that classification that you know of changed the way addiction response teams approach uh prevention? And you know, we always talk we already talked a little bit about uh treatment, but approach the prevention and overdose prevention.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Yeah, I think education and awareness are key here. You know, Brian, just as you mentioned, each phase of that crisis has kind of affected different communities in different ways. And so the approach has had to be different. Um, you know, with heroin in the 60s and 70s, it was a much younger, more urban, male-dominated with crack cocaine in the in the 80s and 90s, it was lower income, disproportionately black communities with prescription. It was more white, more rural, more suburban. Uh, it was more kind of medically initiated with some of those prescription drugs. But really, what we've been seeing here more recently, since you know the early 2010s with the polysubstance is this fentanyl crisis, this polysubstance crisis really cuts across geography, race, socioeconomic status. It's a universal risk. And so fentanyl, the addiction crisis, does not discriminate. It hits people across every background: black, white, young, old, Democrat, Republican. So we can't just kind of focus on who identifies as opioid users. You know, we have to our prevention messaging has shifted. Uh, you know, I think the a great example of that is the DEA's one pill can kill campaign, you know, that any drug could contain fentanyl. So unless you are getting your drugs from a doctor or a pharmacist, you should assume that that it's leased. And I think that's been helpful messaging for us to target people who might be traditional stimulant users or recreational users or, you know, just young adults who might be exploring different substances. And so that that's really helped as well with as we're talking about an appropriate response to to fentanyl, um, you know, widespread distribution of naloctone. That's been so important to be able to train families and businesses, putting them in libraries and schools at test strips so that people that are going to be using can make safe use decisions and check their supply, education on not using alone and recognizing what's how to recognize signs of an overdose and all of those different things. And so fentanyl became such an urgent and emergency response. We really did have to make that shift of yes, our goal is always absolutely to get someone into treatment, but we had to shift to keeping people alive long enough to get them into treatment and recovery. And so that that has been a a way that we've also had to distinguish between our our response.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Can I I wanted to ask a quick question? The the I just wanted to make sure I I was good on the definition of polysubstance for myself and our audience. I mean, is that just the use of multiple substances at a single time instead of like an addiction to like a single substance? Is that how that's kind of used in in your field?

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Great question. Yeah. And when we're talking about polysubstance, it also doesn't necessarily mean that that individual is seeking multiple substances because we are in the state that we are for our drug trends. Unfortunately, people might be asking for one thing and they're getting something laced with like fentanyl or other things.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

I got you. Right. I got you.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

So when we say poly substance use, oftentimes what we're seeing, whether it be in toxicology from overdose deaths or from clinical panels, when we're doing urine drug screening tests when people are trying to enter into treatment, we're seeing them test positive for many different substances, even though they may have only intended to take one. So when we say polysubstance, that's what we mean is just that there could be multiple different substances involved in in their addiction, which also makes it very difficult to treat when we may not know what is in the drug supply. It's hard to make sure that we tailor our treatment to meet the needs of what individuals might be withdrawing or detoxing from.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Wow. Yeah. And when you talk about how the polysubstance use is universal, it goes across all types of people, like you said. And uh something that I think also is interesting is it doesn't just affect the user, right? When addiction uh impacts families and their children in the workplaces, we'll see a loss of productivity and labor shortages and first responders have to deal with this. And so when we hear people talk about this, especially maybe policymakers, and when we're talking about uh legislation, I think there's a a quick knee-jerk reaction to just kind of assume that this is an individual problem, right? That this doesn't affect anybody but the user. When in fact it affects the whole community. So I don't know if you could speak to this a little bit about how it's is it a community-wide impact? And is that something that we really need to do a little bit better educating on when we talk about solutions and mitigations?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Yeah. And I would ask any lawmaker who, you know, might view it as an individual problem or they're trying to explore different policies. I mean, start by, I would say thinking about your own friends and families and neighbors, because unfortunately the reality today is you don't have to look far. Most of us are only one or two degrees removed from someone that's either lost someone from an overdose or they have a family member that might be actively navigating a substance use disorder. Um, you know, as you said, it was it's never just the individual, it ripples outward. It impacts families and children. It shows up in our communities in the workforce. You we're having many different and increased CMS and fire runs to the hospital. It's putting a strain on our law enforcement and first responders. We've got grandparents who are an extended family who are stepping up as caregivers. You mentioned the workforce disruptions and the absenteeism. So, um, but we're also seeing the demands on the treatment side and the increase for treatment and recovery and social services. So this certainly is not a part-time problem. It's a full-time one. And so it requires full-time solutions. And addiction doesn't stop at 5 p.m. on a Friday, even though some of our treatment providers may close at Friday at 5 p.m. And unfortunately, in many places, jails and prisons have effectively become one of the largest detox providers, even here in the Commonwealth. And that's not because they're necessarily the right setting, but it's because our public safety partners don't have the appropriate tools at their fingers fingertips and the system lacks sufficient 24-7 access to care. Our options are jail or the ER. And so it really has it does the pervasiveness of the issue really does demand a community-wide response. So we also need to push for for a continuum of care that's more flexible and more collaborative. We have to people meet people where they are, uh, but we can't leave them there. And I think that's always you always hear that phrase, meet people where they are. But our systems have have left them there for a while. And so we have to build pathways that carry people beyond just the crisis that we're in and into that long-term recovery. Uh, because when we see those individuals stabilized, we see families stabilized, we see people entering into the workforce, they're contributing to society, they're paying taxes, they're buying homes. But this is really where I love the like the coalition building of it all. You know, none of it none of it happens in a silo. There's not one single system or sector that's going to be able to solve this alone. It really does take all of us from prevention to treatment to recovery, public health, law enforcement, all of these community partners working together to make it possible.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Yeah. And then with public health too, we have the communicable diseases like hepatitis C and HIV, which is linked to substance abuse as well, and you know, the use of the syringes and the syringe access and harm reduction that exists out there too to help these people. So that's that's another important piece to the puzzle that has to be looked at.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Absolutely. Yeah, it's bringing all of the stakeholders together. It's definitely an all hands-on-deck approach on really having that community-wide long-term impact that we're hoping to see progress on as it relates to public health and public safety.

unknown 18:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

So, Megan, you had mentioned earlier some programs locally, some statewide coalitions, which you've mentioned a couple of times that, you know, are are working and showing a lot of promise. Are there any other we just feel like that doesn't necessarily get enough attention. Everybody wants to talk about, you know, what's wrong, what's not working, when there's, you know, a lot of effort, you know, being put into strategies and initiatives to turn this thing around and and try to improve the lives of those who are suffering from this. Can you talk to us about other things that have had a positive impact and some of the specific things that you've seen that could really have a lot of potential?

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yeah, absolutely. So uh I'm a huge proponent of deflection. So it's one of the most kind of promising shifts that we've seen in how communities respond to substance use and behavioral health needs. So you'll often hear it referred to as quick response team or community navigator programs. But really at its core, deflection is getting individuals out of systems and into care. So it's typically a collaborative intervention that clo connects public safety with health systems. So you'll oftentimes see law enforcement connected with behavioral health. So it could be a pure navigator, so an individual with lived experience. And together they're responding in a co-responder model to create these different non-arrest community-based pathways into care. Um, and they they'll do that primarily for substance use disorder, but they also do it for mental health and other social determinants of health. In the deflection space, there are six recognized pathways to deflection, the most prominent being post-overdose response. But there's also a variety of other programs out there. So self-referral, active outreach, intervention, prevention, community-based response. And I think one of the one of the things that I find most fascinating about deflection is that really there are no two deflection programs that look exactly alike. So we always have a saying in our field that if you've seen one deflection team, you've only seen one deflection team. Because some are law enforcement led, some are public health led, some are peer-led. And some might have one pathway that they work under. Others might operate across several or even all six pathways. And but I think that's really the beauty of deflection. Different teams can and should build a deflection program that meets the unique needs of their communities. What works well here in northern Kentucky may not work well for Western Kentucky or Eastern Kentucky. But I think as well, having that co-responder model, that intentional connection between public health and public safety, I think it's done a really phenomenal job of building back police community relations, particularly for partners that have not historically worked together. And now they are working together in unison, trying to connect individuals to care. Navigators in that role or peers, they are a phenomenal bridge to be able to connect individuals through the system, uh, to be able to walk them through every step of the way. I think what people don't realize is what the system kind of looks like. It's actually many different systems. So there's one for substance use, there's one for mental health, there's one for housing, for legal services, transportation, a different one for basic needs, a different one for food. And so to have someone there to walk them through every step of the way, that really helps people match them to the right level of care and what they need at that time. You know, without coordination, that's when we start to see people fall through the cracks. And that's where I think deflection really makes a difference. And if it's done well, deflection doesn't just save lives, it saves money. So it helps with those. Those reduction in repeat overdoses, the decrease in arrest, the jail utilization. And it ultimately helps reduce some of those downstream costs, like those pressures on Medicaid and our emergency response systems. And so I think deflection is such a great strategy with both public safety and public health. I think it's one of those clear examples that we have on if you have upstream investment, how that can change outcomes downstream.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah, I can see how that uh that end-to-end support with uh coordinated handoffs should be like you called it the cracks or the gaps where somebody might fall through. And if, you know, there's that constant care across the board and a lot of communication, I'm sure, uh, throughout that, it really um improves the chances of success. That's really interesting. And I also like, I just love the the multi-pronged approach of law enforcement, and it reminds me of just law enforcement in general, where you know we're trying to get back into community policing, where you have community action and you have maybe when um there's a call, the police officer is teamed with a social worker so they can go out and you know really address it instead of just you know automatically moving to uh handcuffs and jail. There's a lot, uh that multi-pronged approach can be really successful in a lot of ways. It's very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Yeah, and then the other piece of this is policy. So we can have all of these ideas, but we're gonna have to implement that, and we're gonna have to have laws behind it and funding behind it. And I know we've seen some really good successes with in Kentucky with the Bashir Coleman administration. It seems like they've been focused really heavily on reduction and trying to fight the epidemic by increasing treatment resources, law enforcement, which you've already spoken to. And I know there's been legislation right now being proposed and debated about expanding access to the overdose of reversal drugs in public spaces, and really trying to increase connections. But on the flip side, we've seen cuts to Medicaid and restrictions on Medicaid assistant treatment. And that could really, I guess, undo a lot of years of progress. So, in your opinion, are there any policies right now that we should we should be looking at or focused on that would really help or anything out there that could just really be bad for the the current situation if that's the way we move policy-wise?

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Yeah, great question. I think we really are at a time where the policy choices that we're making right now, they're either gonna strengthen or strain communities like Northern Kentucky. And I think that difference really comes down to whether or not we're gonna invest upstream or continue to pay for these downstream consequences. So we can invest now in these more coordinated people-centered systems, or we can continue operating in these fragmented silos. And so I think when we're talking about good policy that's gonna have positive impact, it's ones that are gonna increase access to care, reduce barriers, build out a system that helps coordinate across those different sectors that we just talked about. And because we just hit on it, you know, this is not a one-sector issue. So when you see policies that are effectively partnering or funding models that can connect people to care quickly, particularly after an overdose or a crisis event, that's when we're gonna see the biggest impact. I also think that when we're developing policy, we also need to make sure that it's grounded in that lived and living experience. And so by that I mean intentionally amplifying those voices of lived experience. So individuals in recovery and people that are directly impacted by addiction in the design and feedback process of the policy. I think you guys have probably heard that principle of nothing about us without us. That really matters here. So we can't build out these effective systems and policies in a vacuum and expect them to work in these real world conditions. So we have to have that continuum of care that's accessible and flexible. We have to have access to across a spectrum of care, medication-assisted treatment included. There's a lot of debate on the morality around medication-assisted treatment. But the the truth of the matter is it works and it's uh an evidence-based treatment. And so there's not a one-size-fits-all approach to treatment and recovery. What works for me may not work for Natalie, may not work for Brian. And that's why it's important that we have all different types of treatment available, whether it's abstinence-based or a 12-step model or medication-assisted treatment, intensive outpatient residential. So we really need to make sure that we're not narrowing our options. We really need to expand them. But then on the flip side of that, I think things that could have an a negative or uh unintended consequence would be those that may be too punitive without having that corresponding investment to recovery um and treatment. I think we've learned our lesson. We can't arrest our way out of the drug crisis. Law enforcement alone is not going to resolve addiction. Um, and if we keep putting people through the same criminal justice cycle without addressing that underlying issue, we're gonna be right back where we started. So I I think those are all really key points to look at while also focusing on on important things like early intervention and youth engagement. We talked earlier on about the overdose prevention tools. So expanding naloxone and testing strip access, more drug testing technology, particularly in an environment where our drug supply is so unpredictable. But, you know, I think it's been an interesting time as well when we need to also not kind of misread some of our recent progress. While we have seen deaths decline, that doesn't mean that the crisis is over. In many ways, we're kind of returning back to those levels when we declared there was a crisis in the first place. Although deaths may be down, that doesn't necessarily mean addiction is down or addiction's gone away. So we can't let our foot off the gas when we see that there is progress happening in the space. And at the same time, I think there's a growing assumption in some policy spaces that the opioid settlement dollars alone are gonna solve the problem. Now they're very valuable and very needed for our communities, but those funds are very time-limited and front-loaded. Um, and so without that sustained public investment alongside them, we're gonna have this short-term influx of resources followed by these long-term gaps that are gonna be on the horizon. So I think at the end of the day, you know, communities like Northern Kentucky, we don't need more programs. We need a system that's gonna work together, adapt together, gonna stay accountable to the people here in the Commonwealth and beyond that. Really, that's where we're gonna see our impact and progress.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

And I was wondering, I was curious to get your take on, I know we've seen some drugs that were street drugs, let's say marijuana, that was previously outlawed and now they are illegal. And we also just saw the FDA get approval for psychedelics. Does do these types of things normalize the drug? I know there's been a lot of talk about microdosing. RFK is talking a lot about this. Is that going to help or hurt the situation? Or do you even have an opinion on that? I was just curious.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Yeah, I think oftentimes when you're seeing a lot of conversations around scheduling, there's oftentimes it's looking at it much more from a criminal justice enforcement and prosecutorial lens. So scheduling is going to be more for what they can prosecute people for when they're trafficking or they find the substances. I will say scheduling is also a helpful tool, though, when we're talking about a panel for clinicians when someone's entering into treatment. If there's not a drug that's scheduled, they're not going to test for it in their urine screening panel. And so those are things as well, when we're thinking about scheduling, they do have long-term implications for policy. So those are very important conversations to have. And they're very, it's very difficult to get different substances scheduled. There's a lot of conversations going on at the state and federal level around xylazine and metatomidine scheduling for the animal tranquilizers. And so those are all different things that kind of go into the policy, but also impact the treatment and response that we're able to have boots on the ground in the community. And so all very important pieces of the conversation for sure.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

And by scheduling, can you speak to what exactly that means? That's basically taking drugs and saying which ones have the potential for uh addiction. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 30:12

So for the different scheduling process, typically what they're gonna do is go through an eight-factor analysis as part of it. And so some of those things are how addictive it is, what the impacts are gonna be for people, the the access. Um, and those are the kinds of things that go into the scheduling conversation. There's a lot of different uh clinicians and individuals way above my pay grade that are part of those conversations uh to be part of that. But the A-factor analysis is a great way to make sure um that scheduling also falls into the appropriate levels um of whether it's like a schedule one or a schedule three. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Yeah, I guess uh, you know, finally the another major determinant, or maybe one of the uh primary major determinants of our approach to addiction and whether we're successful in combating it or not is the stigma that's attached to it. You know, the stigma is a huge barrier to achieving positive change. It's there's this all too common belief that, you know, in our society that addiction is a moral failure instead of a health condition. And we know that the stigma of addiction prevents people from seeking treatment, it discourages bystander intervention and influences policies that are bad, especially around Narcan and needle exchange programs and other initiatives. So, what can communities and us everyday people do to shift how we approached and uh talk about addiction and recovery?

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Yeah. Stigma's a tough one. Um and it is one of the most important pieces of the conversation when we're talking about addiction and solve that on this.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Not today. Not today, but we can check. No, but honestly, I think the podcast is a great example. You know, we need more people talking about addiction. We need people feeling more comfortable asking the questions uh that they may not know the answers to. But I think, you know, you touched on it as well. The language we use matters. Trying to use person first language when we can. Using a phrase like a person with substance use disorder helps kind of keep that focus on the individual and not the condition. But I will say as well, with that, we also have to keep the conversations approachable. I think, you know, the more we talk about it is great and it helps reduce stigma. But addiction itself is not a a dirty word. So um, but I think we do need to be mindful not to use what could be derogatory label labels. So like a junkie or a drugie. And so those are things where I'm always respectful as long as other people they re recognize that that language, there's another person on the side of that language. Um how we describe them does shape how they're treated. And you hit it as well, Brian. The seeing addiction as a disease, stigma still shows up when we fail to treat addiction like other chronic health conditions. So most people don't hesitate to support care when it comes for things like diabetes or heart disease or cancer. And so addiction should be framed that same way. Um, and that's why it's so important as well to train our frontline workers, you know, EMS, our emergency departments, law enforcement, and reinforce that recovery is possible. There's a lot of compassion fatigue out there. So when we can normalize those recovery stories and those success stories, again, elevating those voices of lived experience really, I think, helps humanize the issue of addiction in a way that data alone can't. And at the end of the day, I think, you know, we're all human and we can't lose sight of that human element of how we respond.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Yeah, it's funny. I hear people say things like, Well, I I don't I don't want to pay for our police officers, they have Narcan. But you have no problem uh treating other emergent d you know issues with with people. There, these are people and you don't know how they got to where they they are. I have Narcan on my closet. It's like you never you just never know. Like I don't know what might ever happen, or one of my neighbors. So it's it's I think it's once you've realized that it could happen to anyone, this could happen to anybody, could fall into this.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

So but thank you for the insights on on that. And I know that was a a pretty, a pretty heavy topic when we talk about things like that, but we we do like to lighten things up a little on the podcast. And one way that we like to do this is through a lightning round, fun five fun questions. If if you'd be up for that before we uh before we let you go.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yeah, I'm all in.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

All right. Well, these are pretty fun and easy. The first one's easy. Uh what is the thing you never leave the house without? Probably my phone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Or or I always have a cup of coffee in hand. Probably that too.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

My brother runs around with a jug of coffee. It is so funny. I'm like, what do you need to do? Always have coffee.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Yeah. We always have coffee. It's just whether the co you know, is it caffeinated or decaf? But I always have coffee.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

And I don't I don't drink coffee. Brian's yellow at me. He said he was probably not gonna be my podcast partner anymore after he found that.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yeah, well, you know, we gotta we got past that. Now we're on to the next challenge.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Yeah. We all have our vices.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Um, Megan, what is your favorite season? I probably have to say the fall football season, bonfires. Yeah, I can't beat it. No, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

That's good. And you are on Ludlow City Council. So congrats to you for being um part of the council. What is one initiative that you really want to focus on during your time there?

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yeah, well, I guess kind of two things probably. We're about to head into budget season. So I'm all for, you know, fiscal transparency and accessibility for the people and hopefully passing a balanced budget. But then also uh, you know, bringing more economic vibrancy to our downtown area. We have some amazing businesses in Ludlow, so I'd love to see more investment into our business district.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

I love what's going on. They're all local businesses there. It's such a great city. Yeah. My grandma, I my grandma lived in Ludlow, so I spent a good bit of my childhood there. So it's got a special place in my heart.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

It's amazing. I always love so many people have Ludlow ties. So there someone always has a Ludlow story to share, and I absolutely love it. It's a fantastic community.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

It is indeed. Um, all right, you spoke about your education and you wrote your master's thesis about women and politics. I'm just curious, who inspired you most in this area?

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Oh my gosh. I have so many. Really, I've had the honor of working alongside uh, you know, for end with so many phenomenal female leaders. Um, Bridget Kelly, Commissioner Denise Drehouse on the Ohio side come to mind. I think at a broader level, I've always been inspired by leaders like Madeline Albright, the first female U.S. Secretary of State, and uh Congresswoman Jenny Wexton uh is fantastic as well. And I'd also be remiss not to mention Lieutenant Governor Jacqueline Coleman. I had the opportunity to meet her last year. We both spoke at a recovery event on the Purple People Bridge. And it was a really meaningful moment to kind of see her leadership up close and share the stage with her. So absolutely, there's so many. And also, I just also shout out to all the women that are public servants, just doing the day-to-day, you know, of government work and showing up to school boards and city council meetings and nonprofits. I I think those those women are fantastic as well. So yeah, that's a that was a hard one.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

Well, then I'll give you one that's really out of the box, okay? If you're reincarnated into an animal in your next life, what would you want it to be? Oh, I know, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:21

I want to come back as my dog Zoe. Yeah, she's uh she is spoiled. She is a six-year-old black lab. So I want to come back as her. I want to come back as a black lab. But but you are black. Exactly. My black lab. She lives a she lives a luxurious life.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

That's awesome. Well, thanks for playing along.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Thank you. Well, we do like to lighten it up at the end of each podcast, but we also like to try to make sure to have a call to action. So uh, what are a few concrete things our audience can do, you know, right now to help support addiction recovery and you know possibly save lives in our community?

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Yeah, thank you for that. I love a good call to action. Um, Natalie said it as well. Carrying a loxone and know how to use it. Our public health departments have it widely available. It's now over the available over the counter in many places, and that can reduce an opioid overdose in minutes. So add it to your first aid kit. Think about it, you know, the same way you would a fire extinguisher. You hope you never need it, but it can absolutely save a life in an emergency. Reduce stigma in everyday conversations, like we said earlier. The way we talk about addiction, you know, shapes how people are treated and whether they they seek help. So I would just really encourage everyone to stay engaged in and their local communities and what what are your local community coalitions doing? The DEA just had their drug take back days. They typically do those twice a year in April and October. But have different, adopt different safe storage and drug disposal practices in your own home. You know, there's drug disposal bags that are widely available for deuterra or neutronarch bags to, you know, gone are the old days of flushing your drug down the toilet. You know, there are safe at-home disob disposal options. But I think just at the end of the day, just being, you know, taking the time to make those small informed actions can really make a change for people in our community for public health and public safety and and supporting those in recovery. I think if you've got someone in your life, be that champion for them, be that sounding board that they might need and cheer them on from the sidelines through their recovery journey.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Yeah, that's great. Absolutely. Thank you so much for being here. It was a great conversation. I learned a ton. So we really appreciate your expertise.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a fantastic conversation.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Yeah, it's nice to know. I mean, you know, the opioid crisis didn't happen overnight and it won't be solved overnight, but there are solutions and right here at the community level. And especially if we choose compassion, evidence, and accountability. Thank you, Megan, for being here. We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Yeah, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Thank you all for joining. And to our listeners, if this conversation resonated with you, please share it, talk about it, and remember recovery is always possible and every life is worth living. And don't forget you can join the conversation on our Facebook and Instagram pages or at blue dotpodcast.com. And if you like listening to the podcast, please consider donating to help fund it, which you can do by clicking on the donate link at blue dotpodcast.com. Till next time, stay curious, keep the facts in focus, and never stop fighting for what matters. Peace out, everyone.