The Opposite Ends Podcast
Opposite Ends is a podcast about life, love, and learning as we go. Hosted by Michael, a driven entrepreneur, and Leah, a dedicated special education teacher, this show dives into the realities of relationships, personal growth, and navigating life from two completely different backgrounds. We’re not here as experts—we’re here as two people figuring it out, just like you. Through candid conversations, humor, and real-life experiences, we explore what it means to build a strong, healthy relationship while balancing careers, personal development, and the occasional debate over who’s actually right. Join us as we navigate life from opposite ends and meet somewhere in the middle.
The Opposite Ends Podcast
When Your Brain Becomes Your Prison
Leah shares her deeply personal battle with anorexia, revealing how the need for control during a chaotic first year of teaching spiraled into dangerous eating habits and a 40-pound weight loss. Michael and Leah explore the striking parallels between eating disorders and addiction, highlighting how both serve as coping mechanisms when life feels out of control.
• Leah's experience moving to Nashville after college and developing anorexia during her first year teaching
• The psychological aspects of eating disorders—seeking control rather than just body image
• Dangerous habits including extreme calorie restriction and excessive exercise
• Feeling like "a prisoner in my own brain" while wanting to participate in normal social activities
• How fertility concerns became the turning point for Leo's recovery journey
• Michael's perspective on addiction and control through his bodybuilding experience
• The challenge of gaining weight during recovery and confronting triggers
• Advice for supporting loved ones struggling with eating disorders or addiction
• The importance of accepting help even when you feel others "have it worse"
• Recovery as an ongoing process with daily challenges
So welcome back to the Opposite Ends podcast. This is episode number three. Today we're talking about, you know, the quiet battles, the silent battles, the things that you know you're not proud of, the stuff that you know you don't like to necessarily share, right? So I think that you know, whether it's from a female perspective or a male perspective, I think there's a you know there's a lot of things that you can dive into and you know, at every level, I think you know we've all battled with it. So I think it's something that's important for both of us to kind of share and talk about. And yes, let's get, it's also Easter Sunday, so we are shooting a podcast on Easter and I got in here Carly was actually here when her yeah, and she was like. I was like, oh, no, we were just coming in and shoot a podcast.
Speaker 1:I was like I guess I didn't even realize it was really Easter until like midweek. But yeah, so we here we are back to episode number three. Uh, the opposite ends podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're happy to be here. Went to church this morning, that was super fun, um, and went home and did some Sunday things, but we always are holding each other accountable to do our podcasts on Sundays. You got to get it in.
Speaker 2:We got to get it in, yeah, and this one in particular, I think, is something I was looking forward to. Well, I'll be honest, I wasn't really looking forward to the topic of the conversation, but I do think that it's something that a lot of people can relate to and it's something that I feel like a lot of people, um, don't specifically share because, um, you know, mental health is such a glamorized thing right now. It's like everybody has anxiety, everybody has depression, everybody, you know, and which is great, you know, it's great that it's people are comfortable sharing, but also, but also very quick to diagnose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that, and you know, yeah, so, anyway, but I just we're going to share my story a little bit, I guess. Yeah, yeah, so I lived. Well, ok, I'll start from the beginning. I graduated college and moved to Nashville, tennessee, like uh, two months after college graduation and kind of on a whim, um, but it was fun.
Speaker 2:And that December I I got there and I was just, it was my first year post-grad, first year teaching, and there was no direction, you know, and I was like, obviously without any of my support people, you know, my family and everybody else, but anyway, first year teaching, and the year began and it was just a fucking shit storm, like it was just chaos, it was like no leadership, like no, it was like fight or flight mode times a thousand every day and especially as, like a first year teacher, it was just like, oh my god, I would walk in every day and have to, like say a prayer and take a deep breath because I'm like today's just it. It was just. You never knew you were going to come in contact with it was just you know, it was just.
Speaker 2:Everything was so uncontrolled and for me that's really hard because I there's parts of my personality that need that control. Yeah, in some ways, but anyway, um, as the year went on, in December, um, I was like man, I'm like'm like super anxious, super depressed, like all of the above. It was just horrible. And so I got a doctor and was prescribed some medicine to help with that and then by March I had lost like 40 pounds and, ok, like to give you context, I'm 5'8 and have been like 130 pounds since senior year of high school.
Speaker 2:So from Christmas to the first time I came home from Nashville, was like for my birthday, and, um, I was like 120 pounds and my mom was like she's like what is going on, she's like you for lack of better terms like you look shit, like I looked like a crackhead. It was horrible, but I was, you know, controlling, being able to control food and what I ate, and I was also running a shit ton, like I would come home from work and it was like about an hour commute each way and I would get home and run like five miles when I got home and then have like two rice cakes for dinner and go to bed and do the same it was just horrible.
Speaker 1:But anyway, yeah, what was your diet? Didn't you say you had like a crazy? Oh, my god like every day you'd count, like you'd chop a protein bar up in halves and something.
Speaker 2:I would do some crazy shit and I actually thought about like talking about some of the horrible habits I used to do. But I'm thinking of myself last year and if I were to listen to somebody that said they lost 45 pounds, I would want to take every single one of their habits and do it myself. Yeah, so I don't know that I want to go into like deep detail, but I would just do everything I could to consume the least amount but also gain the most amount of energy. So that looked like overdosing on caffeine. That was like popping way too many adderalls than I should. It was, you know, crazy. Just a lot of really bad things. But that is one thing that I would do is I would chop up my food really little and just tiny little pieces, like I would cut up like protein bars, like you said, and I also had like weird food sensory things. I liked all my shit frozen, which I still kind of do and i've've always been that way but like this was like well, everything, and I also think, yeah, anyway. Um, but I would, yeah, top up all my protein bars and like in tiny little M and M size pizza pieces and put them in the freezer and then eat like four of them at a time. And this was also a really crazy thing I used to do in the mornings on the weekends.
Speaker 2:I would do my long runs and, um, I wouldn't eat anything before I went, like long run it's in like 10 to 15 miles and I wouldn't eat anything before I would go. I would count my um daily multi like vitamin gummies that were like 20 calories each as my pre-run fuel, like horrible. I was like asking for a heart attack. It was so bad. But anyway, um, from december to february, when I went home, my mom both of my parents kind of gave me like a sit down, like what's going on? Like you know, it was just real bad and I didn't really I denied everything.
Speaker 2:I'm like what are you talking about? I'm like I'm not that skinny Like I. You know, I'm fine, like I'm fine, I feel fine, I feel great, I'm running a lot, like I feel healthy, whatever. And then in March I went on spring break with my mom and had lost even more weight and we went to the beach and, and between that time frame of when I had that conversation with my parents in February to going on spring break with my mom in March.
Speaker 2:It was like tons of anxiety because I'm like I'm not going to stop my behavior, because I like the way it feels. I like the satisfaction of the cause and effect, of being able to control what I eat and lose weight. I like being able to try on clothes and have them be way too big on me and go out shopping and be able to buy shirts I've never been able to wear because my boobs are three sizes smaller. Now I don't want to stop any of that because it's satisfying me and giving me the control that I don't have in day to day. So like there's a lot of anxiety, like they were pressuring me to get help and I'm like I don't want to like.
Speaker 2:I like this you know, like this is I feel very comfortable, this is satisfying, this is I feel very comfortable, this is satisfying, this is what excites me. So, um, yeah. And so then I went on, uh, florida spring break with my mom and then after that, um, she was like, what did she say? She was like, um, she'd be. She was like I'm okay If you quit your job. She's like I, if you need to like quit your job and go to some sort of therapy, I am more than happy to like support you, pay your rent, do whatever we got to do, but like this can't be sustainable. And so then later in that March, I started going to therapy and things.
Speaker 2:And there was always a part of me that was like I always have I've always been very brutally honest with my health care people because I'm like I don't want to die. And you know, in this situation I feel like I, I feel like I stuck to that, like I was very honest with my doctors about what was going on and the really, really bad things I would do to myself. And I was talking to multiple different people, multiple different doctors, of what to do, and it was like I got both ends of the spectrum. It was like you know, you need to go to residential treatment for six weeks. We have a bed open next week, if you know, let us know by tomorrow. We'll give you 24 hours and pack your bags and you can come. Or it was, oh, you're, you're okay, like come. Or it was, oh, you're, you're okay, like it's not that bad, we'll just do like a telehealth appointment with this therapist once a week.
Speaker 2:So like I didn't really know how to gauge that either, but I just remember thinking like as soon as this doctor was like any residential treatment, I'm like, hold the fuck up. I'm like no, I'm like no, no, I'm like what are you talking about? I was like this is not how I pictured myself like going on, I'm not ready for no grippy sock vacation. Ok, I'm not there yet. I'm like I'm not doing that, but which I mean, I'm glad I didn't. I feel like that would have traumatized me a lot more than not.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so then I got like my official diagnosis, if you will, of anorexia in the beginning of April and it didn't really do much, to be honest. Like I started going to therapy. But, um, it was interesting because the therapist that I had was actually an addiction therapist and she really taught me a lot about, like, the commonalities between addiction and eating disorders and how similar. Um, like there's a lot of similarities in the way you think, because it's all relying back on something that gives you comfort. That's unhealthy. When you don't find comfort in something else, it gives you something to fall back on, like something that makes you feel safe because you can control it.
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, that's pretty much my, yeah, I mean how?
Speaker 1:how did like? That wasn't that long ago. No no year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and that was the other thing too is like with, within this time of like me, um, living in Nashville and going to therapy, I was planning on moving back to Columbus right as school got out, like literally the last day of school. I moved back the next day like I was over it. But um, you know, and in that time too, I was living in nashville, tennessee, like one of the most fun cities. I'm 22, 23 years old, like I should be having the fucking time of my life. You know, I, I'm a young teacher like so fun, so many opportunities there, but like my I I just remember having such like FOMO because, like my roommates would be going out, my roommates would be making dinner together, like my roommates would be like having people over, you know, having so much fun and doing things that you're supposed to be doing, but like I was like a prisoner in my own brain.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I have. I would sit up in my room, I would kid you not. I would go to bed at seven 30 every day, no matter what Saturday, sunday, it didn't matter. Go to bed at seven 30 and read my book and journal and do whatever I needed to do. I would go up and try on old clothes that were too big on me to like and it was just horrible. But I would do that. But then I would sit and think to myself damn, I wish I could just go down there and hang out with them. I wish I could just enjoy my time right now, but I can't.
Speaker 1:Why couldn't?
Speaker 2:you. Well, I didn't want to go out because, one, I didn't really have the energy to, and two, because I didn't want to be tempted to drink, because I knew if I drank drank then I would want to eat things that aren't in my safe food circle, and like. There was one time that I was like no, you can do it, like you need to go out, like get out of your head like it's. And I did do that. It was on St Paddy's Day last year and I went out and had like three beers. And I came home and I was like a little drunk I hadn't drank in a long time and I'm like just shy of 90 pounds and I'm like a little tipsy and so I order a pizza and I have a piece of pizza and immediately straight to the toilet and I'm like what? Like it's really bad. But so after that I it like scared me. So I'm'm like I'm just not going to let myself do that at all, like I'm just going to stay here, like.
Speaker 2:And I had a very strict routine. Like Saturdays are my long run days, so I would go to bed super early on Friday, get up early 6 am on Saturday, get my long run out of the way. So I had the rest of the day to run my errands, which would be like go to the store, come home, prep my food for the rest of the week, read my book. There was also a lot of like. I couldn't sit.
Speaker 2:Still, I was restless, like yeah, your muscles probably were not being fed yeah, but, but like my body was tired but my mind wasn't so like it was really hard for me to relax or do anything bogey was probably the fittest he has ever been, you know on so many walks but um, yeah, so I moved. I just remember feeling that like I'm, like I just wish that I could enjoy my life right now, like I felt like a prisoner. That makes sense. And it was really hard for me to like open up about what I was struggling with with anyone, even though everybody else already knew. I always just felt like there was an elephant in the room, you know, because everybody else knew that I was struggling with something but nobody really wanted to talk about it. Because I didn't talk about it. Yeah, and that was one thing that I really struggled with moving back home, because I'm like I'm gonna see a bunch of people I haven't seen in a long time. The last time they saw me I was 30, I was 30 pounds heavier.
Speaker 2:So I'm like I just feel like anywhere I go it's like what happened to her or like something's wrong you know, and so that was something I was so anxious about, like coming home. It's just you know and I didn't. I wasn't to the point where I was willing to accept that I had anorexia and eating disorder and you know, I felt a lot of like guilt and shame for like feeling or for having this problem, because I don't have a, you know, crucial event that happened that triggered my brain to work this way. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like I didn't have a super traumatic childhood. So to me it was like I have no right to be doing this, like I have no right to make my parents feel so worried, you know like. So to me it was just a that was. The hardest part was like seeing my parents so worried and, like you know, scared for me because I'm like they didn't do anything wrong like.
Speaker 2:I just I can't help what's going on, like I don't know what's going on. It was scary for everyone involved, but I think that was the biggest thing that I struggled with was just like I don't know. There was a lot of like what can I do as a parent to help them? Blah, blah, blah. But there was no reason for me, other than just my life feeling so out of my hands, for me to engage in those behaviors. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But when I came home, um, things started to get a lot better. It took a second, but, um, I moved back in with my parents and um was still running a lot, still, you know, doing everything that I could to stay within my safe foods, even though there was a lot more access to other types of foods around, which is another thing that I was nervous about. Yeah, but you know that over the summer there was people all around that would like my parents, friends, or like my friends. You know, it was like I always just felt like I would, I would.
Speaker 2:I was being talked about you know, and so that was really hard, but I just kind of had to accept that I did this to myself.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I mean, but how'd you like get yourself out of it? Was there like a routine of I'm going to eat today, kind of thing, like you know what I mean Like cause, cause I'm gonna eat today? Kind of thing, like you know what I mean like because, because I'm sure that you know someone's listening to this that has felt that same way or is going through it, like what, what's something that you did to like get yourself out of that rhythm, that routine, break that pattern? Like is there anything specific that like kind of helped?
Speaker 2:um, there wasn't like one thing, to be completely honest, like I knew deep down that like that lifestyle and what I was doing was not sustainable. Excuse me, it was not sustainable. I knew eating 300 calories max and running 10 miles a day well, maybe not a day, maybe like five, three different, three to five a day I guess more average was not sustainable yeah and so I knew that like something was going to have to change.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, like I was so fixated on like the weighing myself every day and making sure that I stayed below a certain number of, you know, a certain number, and only eating the things that I'd like to eat, it was really hard, but I will say, like the one thing that helped me was it got to a point where it started to like really hinder the trajectory of the rest of my life yeah like I lost my period for like six months, didn't get it at all, and I remember that being like a big thing and going to the doctor and they were like you're okay right now, but like if this goes on for another six months where, like you're not ovulating, you're not getting your period, you could potentially hinder your fertility, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so that was one thing that like really hit me and I was like, oh fuck, I was like I want to be able to have kids someday, like you know. So for me it was like you, it's kind of like what they say with addicts sometimes like two of the things that really helped me switch my brain was like when I was running and losing all the way and seeing the numbers drop, that was fulfilling to me and there was no consequence. Yet there was no consequence. That was like made it to where I wanted to change. The consequence for me was the possibility of not being able to have kids, and, um, I forgot what the other one was, but, um, that was one of the main things. And so what helped me was I would just tell myself like we're gonna try one new food a week and like that would be like um just like even just one piece of pizza you're like it takes me all day to get it down.
Speaker 2:It wouldn't even be, it would be like a bite yeah, that's what I'm saying. It was like like it would be like a bite of pizza or it would be two bites of noodles. Yeah, in one day, like that was it and starting really really small.
Speaker 2:And like one thing too is I would keep my chopping my food up really little, but I would just make more frequent trips to the fridge, like, instead of going once, like three times a day to go get a handful of protein bar, I would go maybe like four times yeah and um and it took a really long time, but I also will say that, like, the environment helped me a lot yeah, being around people that like, although it was hard at first because I felt like everyone was talking about me and there's an elephant in the room at all times, I kind of had to get over it and be like you did this yourself, like this is no, like if this were your friend you'd be worried.
Speaker 2:So like this is kind of consequence of your own behavior type thing, but also like, yeah, I don't know what else?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but too I mean, yeah, putting trying a new food every week or so was probably the first step into like trying to get better and when I got home it was hard, because if you've ever struggled with any type of like eating disorder or anything like that, people commenting on your weight loss like is like yes, like it's like a fucking, like it's working. Yeah, like it's so sick to say that out loud, but it's true. Yeah, like you put on a pair of jeans and they don't fit you and they're sliding off, you're like yes, it gives you such satisfaction. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's crazy and like but if you've experienced this, you'll understand exactly what I'm saying but like this sounds so sickening me, like he saw you running and just like mentioned how you know thin you are and like he's asking you if you're okay and to me it just like boosted. It just boosted me and I'm like, okay, like it gave me relief, almost of like, even though I'm not in the environment where I was, like, succeeding the most in my eating disorder it's still working and so like it was like.
Speaker 2:It was like, uh, exciting to me. But again, one thing my therapist said, like with addiction she was like I was an alcoholic for 20 years, she's like. And I did a lot of fucked up shit, she's like, but it wasn't until I hit rock bottom, lost my kids, I got a dui and I crashed and almost killed another person. Like all these things that I decided to change because I could just be drunk, I was functional, I could be drunk all the time and it didn't matter. So like, why would I stop?
Speaker 2:yeah you know, but and that looks different for everybody. But it was really hard for me to ever talk about it because eating disorders, I feel like, especially, are so glamorized on social media, yeah, and it's like a trend to have an eating disorder or to have some sort of you know whatever, and so to me it's like this was the worst thing that I have ever gone through my entire life, like nothing can compare to that. It was horrible. I'm like to glamorize this is disgusting yeah like I I don't wish.
Speaker 2:I don't wish that time of my life or having an eating, eating disorder or anything like that on anybody else. It felt like there was like a, some other person in my brain that was like operating me in a way that was trying to like kill me it was horrible.
Speaker 2:So to me it was really hard because I'm like I don't want people to just see this and be like, oh le, leo Wolf is another one. That's, you know, glamorizing these eating disorders. That's going on and you know, because it's not, it's like I mean it can kill you. It does kill a lot of people.
Speaker 2:And so that was something that I think why it's taken me like a year now to like really actually talk about it and like like talk about how it went down and you know what kind of help I got and what kind of things helped me, or just even talking about it in general yeah because it took me a long time to accept yeah, so do you ever feel like you could get back to that?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah. It's like a daily thing, oh yeah, every day.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's. It's the same thing with addiction. You know, like even addicts, like even if you're not using, you're battling that every day you have that craving. Still might get easier, but like you're still going to have that little itch in the back of your mind, because it's one thing that you know for a fact that has proven to proven to you that it will work you know, what I mean so it's like it's a toxic is so satisfying that it's so easy to slip down in that slope again.
Speaker 2:As soon as your life feels out of control, you use or you find what gives you that control in that short amount of time. So yes, it's an everyday thing.
Speaker 1:Oh good, yeah, I mean that's, that's, it's. I obviously didn't have a eating disorder. I obviously didn't have a eating disorder. I mean I had when I was younger. I was super small, underweight, I had human growth hormone deficiency, and so I definitely like, when I got into like working out and like bodybuilding, I think I probably took it to the extreme because it was just like I wanted to be the complete opposite of the way that people saw me and things like that. But I never, I never be. I mean I liked it because I like the competitive side and you know, from that angle of it, but I don't think I've ever I've ever really struggled with, you know that, you know a body disform dysmorphia, dysmorphia, to like an extent like that.
Speaker 2:Dysmorphia, dysmorphia, yeah, to like an extent like that. And I remember asking you the other day because I really struggled mentally with this after my knee surgery because I'm like I can't work out, I can't do anything, I'm gonna get fucking fat I'm like this is terrible.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh no. I'm like no, no, no, it's okay, like you'll get there, it'll be okay. But, um, I remember asking you like obviously, you were however many pounds heavier when you were in your bodybuilding stuff. So I remember asking you like do you feel like you have? Because we were laying in bed and I'm like I feel like I'm getting fat.
Speaker 2:I'm like I just feel fucking fat and I feel ugly and I feel chubby and I feel stupid. I'm just feeling bad for myself and he's like you're not fat and I'm like I think I have body dysmorphia and you were like you definitely do like that definitely. But then like it made me think about you and I was like in your body building days, like looking at old pictures of you, like you were like a fucking meatball. That was a meatball, you were huge and I'm like I mean, you're still very built and cut yeah, but but not to that extreme.
Speaker 2:And so I'm like do you feel, like, like how did that, how did that make your brain feel?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I'm, I am a, um, I mean I definitely have like an addictive personality and so for me it's always like needing something. So, you know, growing up it was hockey. It was doing all that, it was pushing that and you know, having something to always be focused on. And then, you know, when hockey ended, then I got into like bodybuilding and powerlifting and I got to tell you yesterday like I was, you know, competing pretty regularly doing powerlifting events. You know all this stuff and took like great pride in being, you know, usually the strongest guy in a gym, you know, one of the bigger guys there, um, you know, winning bodybuilding competitions and powerlifting events.
Speaker 1:But I messed my knee up real bad and I did it when I was like in prep for a bodybuilding show. Um, and you know when I was, when I did it in prep, I think I was probably like five weeks out, six weeks out from the show, and so I was able to like, plus, I was taking a lot of different supplements and so I didn't even feel it. You know what I mean. And I was so lean I wasn't eating anything. You know anything bad for you. It was literally rice, chicken, steak, you know eggs every day. So my I was being able to keep all my you know inflammation down and all that.
Speaker 1:But then after the show ended and I put you know weight back on and kind of got you know leveled out like the knee just got to the point where I couldn't even squat, couldn't you know hurt to walk? I you know, and and I just pretty much that was like the end of bodybuilding for me. Um, I never really went and got it looked at Like we worked out yesterday. I'm like my knee's killing me. You know, if I go for a couple of days in a row it'll, it'll bother me again.
Speaker 1:But I'm also the kind of guy that just is like I won't go to the hospital Cause I'd rather just not know and just keep going. You know what I mean. I think that was I think that's probably something that you know my uncle got diagnosed with cancer. It was like he just had no clue and then went to the hospital where I'm like, if I'm going to die in seven months, I don't even know that. I want to know that I'm going to die in seven months. I just want to you know, my legs got to get amputated.
Speaker 1:Just let me take, I mean, let's keep it till it comes off, you know. But you know, I think once bodybuilding, you know, ended for me, it was I was right when I like transitioned into business, you know, and so it, it was like I had something else. Yeah, I had something else to focus on, and I realized that where I was at with, you know, bodybuilding that wasn't, you know, I didn't, I didn't care to, you know, be a professional bodybuilder. I had all the tattoos and stuff too. So I'm like, you know, if you're wanting to take it to like the Olympia level, like you don't see a lot of guys that win the Olympia that are covered in ink, you know what I mean. So I'm like I kind of, you know, disregarded myself a little bit on that side, um, and so I just, and eventually I'm just like it, this wasn't doing it for me anymore.
Speaker 1:You know, it was fun, I love doing it, but I wanted, I wanted to make money, I wanted to, you know, get into that kind of next phase and you know, so it was like as soon as stuff, and so I never really, you know, I look back at pictures and stuff now and every once in a while I'll tell myself that I want to, you know, get back into, you know, bigger shape again, not like that, but like back to a, you know, a decent, decent size.
Speaker 1:But then again it just takes so much time, so much effort and I'm just like I like doing what I'm what I'm doing now, so it doesn't really much. Yeah, it's something else to, yeah, you know, work on, yeah that's. If I don't have that, then I would definitely like if it was just like bodybuilding and it was just like all right, that's over, just go work a normal job, and you know, be that, I would probably not be in a healthy position in life yeah, that makes sense yeah yeah, and I think that was something that you know I struggled with when I moved back here, because there was a lot of fear that I had that was like I'm not going to be able to keep up with my habits as easily living at home.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Like it was hard for me too, but I also think that's what helped me is, like you know, obviously being around the people that I love. But it was going to be harder for me to continue the unhealthy things that I would do when I was left to my own devices, living with my parents.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, it's like I mean, when you're sitting there, you know, dwelling in it and and by yourself, and you're just sitting there in your head and no one else around it's. It's you know, honestly, just you know feel bad for yourself and and lean into those things than it is when you're surrounded by people that you know are maybe more positive or want to see you better and see you healthy. It's like it's harder to actually allow that to make you happy. You almost want to fight it for a little bit.
Speaker 2:Well, and it wasn't even that. I was, like you know, feeling bad for myself necessarily. It was just more of like a a. I don't want anyone to break this pattern, like I don't want anyone to like I don't want help, like I don't want to get off my meds. I don't want anybody to like counsel me, yeah, to help me get better, because I like this. Yeah, I like the satisfaction, I like my routine, I like staying within my group. I don't want to go get out of this.
Speaker 2:You know it was really hard for me to like accept that. You know, it wasn't until, like, I like furthered my going to the doctor and stuff and doing blood tests and they were like check, if you don't get your shit together.
Speaker 2:Like it's going to go south really fast. So, yeah, it was. It was a really rough time, but I think, um you know, coming back and it just kind of gradually happened over time, um of me really like focusing on pushing myself to try new foods once a week and to go out and be with my friends and do things with my friends and like kind of force myself into those situations. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It started to get better because I think I you know I wouldn't go out with my friends or do anything like that because I didn't want to give myself temptation to break my cycle. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think, just like what what you said, like being around positive people and people you know that just boost your energy, just because of their aura and, like you know, just watching their behavior of like they, like I remember I wouldn't ever want to go out with my friends because like we would go get food or whatever, and like I felt like everybody was watching me or like everybody was like gonna see how much I ate, or like it was.
Speaker 2:I just felt like all eyes were on me at all times, and so I always just used to tell my one friend who I was really close with, like just be normal, like the more normal you can be, the better I will feel and the more at comfort I will feel.
Speaker 2:And also trying to be normal yeah so I think, just you know, being around them and I also remember thinking to myself like when I first got back here and I was hanging out with all of them we're all out to eat and stuff like I can't, like she's so happy, you know what I mean like she's just laughing eating her french fries and her chicken tenders, and like drinking her beer and she's laughing. She doesn't give a fuck. I'm like she probably isn't even thinking about how many calories she's eating right now. I'm like she's probably not even thinking about how fat that's going to make her. It's not going to make her fat, like it's not going to you know, what.
Speaker 2:I mean Like I but I just remember being so envious of like how is her brain like that?
Speaker 2:I wish that I could feel so safe, or like in these environments, environments like I was like jealous, you know. So it was interesting. It was like a mix of like wanting to feel okay and safe in environments like that, in public, you know, just with people doing normal things. I was so envious of that, but I also was so stuck in my, my behavior, in my brain ways that, like I was satisfied with it and I didn't want anyone to do anything like I didn't want to. I didn't want to stop so well.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing all that yeah, it's a crazy time.
Speaker 2:It is crazy you would never know it now yeah, well, and it's crazy and like you know, and in that time too, I'm like I wasn't that skinny, like I remember thinking, like when I was like really in the thick of it, I'm like I'm not that thin, like why the fuck is everybody so scared, like I'm fine, like what?
Speaker 2:but then now I'll look at pictures, oh my, I'm like, I'm worried about her right now. I'm like, holy fuck, I don't even. I don't even recognize myself. Yeah, you know. So it's like and that was part of the problem, because I didn't think it was that bad- yeah Well, you never.
Speaker 1:you know, it's hard to see it in yourself.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, because we see ourselves every day, so we don't see the changes. They just happen gradually.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And the next thing you know, that's the you. Yeah, you know, I mean, you know, had his addiction over time, you know, and same thing it would be like, and I would go away for hockey and come back in the summertime and I'd be like, dude, like you're, you're literally 130 pounds, 140 pounds you know what I? Mean that that was maybe less right and you know, but he never didn't even realize those things you know, and, like you said, I think the like from an eating disorder, addiction.
Speaker 1:You know a lot of those are the same and when you're the people, that's the support system around them you want to help, you want to step in, you want to be able to because you care about them, but there's nothing that you can do.
Speaker 2:There's really not.
Speaker 1:And if you do, you're just going to wear yourself out. And it's unfortunate because I had a friend who took his own life and you know I watched him deteriorate and you know, and I drove myself crazy for months trying to help him and lived with me and maybe would have motivated him every day and you know, take him to the gym and go to just do all of these things to try to keep him consistent, and it was like the second that I didn't, he'd fall right back into it again.
Speaker 1:And it's like you can't. You know, if you're someone trying to help somebody like that, like you can't. You can't let your life be destroyed by trying to help somebody else save theirs. Now you have to be there, you got to support them and but you can't enable it either.
Speaker 2:So it's mind of like yeah I support somebody like that yeah, and I think that's a really good point to bring up, because when I was really in like in the thick of it, really, really struggling, I didn't want anybody else to worry about me. That was the biggest thing it's like, especially with my parents, because for me it was again the guilt and the shame were the two biggest feelings that I had that were so intense and overwhelming for me, because I'm like there's nothing traumatic that has happened to me in my childhood or at all that is making me be this way. So for me I'm like I have no right to be in this headspace, so like they have no reason to worry about me. You know what I mean. Like I did this to myself for no reason, you know, and so I felt terrible for putting a burden on my parents and for especially being so far away from them to where they feel like they can't help me as much as I know they wish they should but or wish they could.
Speaker 2:But and I also was so in denial of having a problem that if you tried to come and talk to me and ask me if I'm okay and all this shit, it was like threatening to me and I I didn't take it. Well, you know what I mean. It was like I would come back in bitch mode and I'm like what the fuck are you talking about?
Speaker 2:Like you don't know what's going on, like you know. So, even if you, if you have somebody that you, you know has an eating disorder or some sort of addiction or something, and you try to, you know, approach them in a way of like I'm trying to help you, if they are not in that point of even understanding that they have something that's wrong yeah, it is, it is going to go nowhere. Like they, you're not going to reach the person that you want to reach yeah.
Speaker 1:You know it's, they're not available. Yeah, I mean, I think for most people it just takes, takes it, takes something happening. Right, like my dad went to prison and it was he had a change Right and if he got out, and when he got out, it was you do it again, you're going back, and this time you're never getting back out.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so it's like do you want to have a second chance at your family and a life or do you want to go back in there? Same thing with you, right. Do you want the chance or opportunity to have children in a family one day or don't? Like you know, sometimes we got to be faced with that in order to, you know, want it bad enough to make that change yeah, yeah, exactly, and I would try to do things because it was so weird, because it was, I was in between two.
Speaker 2:There were two like thoughts that I had that kept me in the addiction of an eating disorder, and the one that was trying to get me out and the one that was trying to keep me in. There was, like, the voice in my head that was, like this is working. Like this, this is giving you the feeling of control, this is relieving you from, like your every day, of everything else being out of control and, like you know, this is working for you. And then there was another.
Speaker 2:It would encourage me to like oh it's 4 pm and you haven't eaten today. Like I know you're hungry, but like it's almost bedtime, like you can do it for real. It was like a tiny little motivational coach I had in my head it was so stupid, but then there was another one that would like try to get me out of it and this part of my brain would tell me like, would try to scare me out of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I would like watch youtube videos or like movies on netflix about people with eating disorders and like how horrible, how like terrible things have happened to them yeah like I would watch videos of girls with the tube in their nose, or like I would watch videos of um, and I would just, you know, watch all different types of videos to try to scare me yeah but.
Speaker 2:But at the same time it was kind of like feeding both parts of my brain, because they would also talk about the crazy things that these people would do and I'm like, oh, good idea. Yeah, you know, that's why I like don't want to dive too deep into some of the things I used to do, because I know for myself if I listen to this I'd be like, oh, I'm going to yeah but um, yeah, it was just, oh my god crazy yeah crazy.
Speaker 2:But um, but yeah, I mean, if you have somebody, that in eating disorders too happens so fast, I mean, it just like comes over you and addiction happens the same way yeah, it's so fast, but I think being there for them. But don't make them feel like you are um hovering hovering yeah. You know, I think it's really important to just be a consistent person for them, but don't, don't approach it.
Speaker 1:Don't try to persuade them.
Speaker 2:Don't try to persuade or approach until they voice something to you. Yeah, that's what I would say.
Speaker 1:That's good, that's really good. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's definitely uh, it's definitely uh. Um, yeah, I mean I like what you said too about the part of just. You know, a lot of times we fall into these patterns when we, you know, lose control of things, right, and we don't even realize it. It's just like we're trying to numb it, trying to make ourselves feel better. You know, whatever it is to again get control of something yeah, yeah, and that's mostly what it is.
Speaker 2:I mean, textbook definition of an eating disorder is like the need of control of something. Yeah. And the cause and effect of the weight loss is so satisfying and I will say, like, as I've been in remission and like in recovery of it, gaining the weight back has been hard yeah. Because there's, you know, like last weekend I was at my parents' house like trying on different clothes, because my closet, I mean it's from like triple zero to six you know, I mean like there's been just so much life happening.
Speaker 2:But, um, I was at my parents last week and my mom's like I have so much of your clothes, like let's try stuff on, see what fits.
Speaker 2:If it doesn't, we'll throw it out, and I just remember being like fuck, like I don't want to do that you know what I mean like and there are certain like pieces of clothing in my closet that I remember I used to try on all the time to make sure it was too big, Because that was kind of like my way of. That was like one of my criteria of like.
Speaker 2:I've still got it, I'm still good Like it's still two inches too big on me, you know so like trying on clothes and figuring out what size you are, as your body is getting back to normal and it's regulating and is getting back to being healthy, can be a trigger in itself. But I get my period now and I feel a lot better. I have energy to go out with my friends, I'm not scared to eat in public, I can hold conversation for longer than five minutes without being exhausted. You know, I didn't feel there's no such thing as being thin enough in an eating disorder. There's not. That's not the point.
Speaker 2:You know it's just the having the control over something is the point, and so like to me. You know I never felt better about myself, the skinnier I got. That was never, the. Thing. It was just the principle of seeing something that I had control over in effect. Yeah, it was just great. I loved it Honestly, yeah, but I also I had no relationships that were. I mean, I had my friendships, but like I had no desire to do anything other than that. Yeah. It controlled my life for a long time.
Speaker 1:Damn. No, that's good.
Speaker 2:This is good today I'm glad you get to share all of it yeah, well, it was funny because I was telling my mom like the other day. I'm like, yeah, I think I'm going to talk about this in the next podcast. She's like, yeah, you told me that I'm kind of shocked. She's like I'm really shocked that you're talking about that because it's taken me a really long time I mean, it took me like a good five months to even accept that I had anorexia after I got my diagnosis and had been, you know, 20 pounds underweight. Yeah, so like she was just like, really, you know, honestly shocked that I was like willing to share and talk about it. But I think, um, it's something that a lot of people and women struggle with and I think it's important too to combine the addiction commonalities with eating disorder brain and how similar they are.
Speaker 2:Um cause, it all just comes down to patterns. Everything is down to patterns, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think I mean I think we're all best suited to serve the version of ourselves that we were. You know what I mean? I think we're always looking to where we can add value to the world. And it's like look at who you were, yeah, Cause there's a lot of people out there that were exactly who you were, that are still struggling with those things, and you know, so many of us think that we have to, like, achieve this big thing or become wealthy or what all success and like all this stuff. And it's like all you got to do to help somebody is be a page ahead.
Speaker 1:If you're one page ahead of where they're at, like you actually bring a lot of value to them and you're you know it's your duty, I think, to to share that and have those conversations when, when you're ready and when you're able to. But you know, I look at you know, as I've, you know, grown in my life like looking back of, you know, wanting to help those people, of who I was right or how I felt stuck in ways and the things that I felt, you know, held me back and you know, or were the circumstances that I had that, um, you know, just like you said too, it's like when we, you know, if I look at the things that happened in my life, I'm always the kind of guy where, like, you feel bad. You know, you feel bad because you got no shoes until you see the guys with no feet Right, and then you're like realizing, oh man, it ain't that bad. This person over here has got it way worse. Like I can't feel bad for me. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I think it's really easy to allow ourselves to to fall into that and think that you know, you know, you know we don't deserve to have the pain that we have and so we're doing it on purpose kind of deal, right and it's. It's not the case. It's just like the you were bad, is your your worst bad? Is your worst bad? It's not comparative to say like, okay, the other person has all these worst experiences that you have no credibility to share. We'll talk about it because you don't deserve to have it as bad as you do. Right, and I think that they that they get us twisted sometimes because you know, if I ever felt you know things in my life when I was growing up or what I experienced, it'd be like, oh well, you know it wasn't that bad, because I could have had that, that could have been going on for me.
Speaker 1:But, but it was. It was my bad, it was the baddest that I experienced Right out there that they need to know that you know you can get through those things and that there's, there is light on the other side and there are you know things that, um, that they can look forward to, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's a really good. I'm really glad that you extended on that, because I think that a lot of people struggle with that. It's like they don't feel like they qualify to get help, or like they don't feel like they are worthy of people worrying about them, or they don't feel like they're worthy of like having people that want to help them, because there's so many people that have it worse. Yeah, but it's like what's the standard? Right again, there's not one you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's whatever you perceive it as, yeah, so I think that's something that's super important and I'm glad that you really brought up because I think a lot of people are really hesitant to accept that they do need help, you know, because, one, it can be seen as a weakness, or people think it is seen as a weakness, whatever. Or two, that's like well, there are so many people out there that have it so much worse. Don't waste your time on me. You know that that's what. That was one thing that held me back for a long fucking time, because I'm like I've got it like I did this to myself. You know like whatever happens happens if I never have kids my fucking fault you know like yeah but it doesn't.
Speaker 1:There's no standard you know no so no, and I think I I heard a quote one time. I said it's the you know, it's the things that we think disqualify us that actually qualify us Right. It's the things that we think you know. I think the same thing you're saying of well, I didn't grow up with a bad family and I had all this support and I had this help, and you know I shouldn't be in this position. It's like okay out there, that didn't have. You don't have to go through hell to deserve pain.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. It's like well, we think that's the way it is sometimes Right when it's like I, you know I don't deserve this pain. Or you know, I haven't gone through hard enough shit yet to to, to, to, um, you know, get make myself credible to be dealing with the things that I'm dealing with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I think it just goes back to I mean, you've got to get to. As shitty as it sounds like some. For some people it takes a long time and a lot of consequences before they start to feel, realize like okay she's got to change.
Speaker 2:Something's got to change, yeah, or something real bad is going to happen, but I think that's what keeps people going. Yeah, you know, like, had I not been told that, you know, if I kept going the way I'm going, I'm not going to be able to have kids, and blah, blah, blah, it'd be in the exact same spot. Like you know, I would not give a shit. Oh, I can be, stay this skinny and have kids. But yeah, I was doing a lot of detrimental things to my health and still, to this day, I have really bad gut issues and I have always kind of been like that. But I think, removing so much from my diet and then reintroducing things, it's just been.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know I'm a gassy gal, but anyway, that's good.
Speaker 1:Anything else you want to talk about today? I feel like that was pretty good. That was a lot of good stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was good? I don't think so.
Speaker 1:Glad we got in. Got in on Easter and sinuses and all yeah, yeah. Well, I'm Michael McGovern. This is the Opposite Ends Podcast with my host, leah Wolfe, and we appreciate you guys for listening Sounds good.
