Part 2: The Case For Separation

What if Alberta’s future isn’t in Canada at all?

Carlin Lutzer sits down once again with Tanya Clemens, a passionate advocate for Alberta sovereignty, to unpack the momentum behind the Alberta separation movement. 

With signature drives gaining steam and a referendum officially expected in October 2026, Tanya addresses fears about the economy, pensions, foreign relations, and the future of democracy in Alberta. 

She contrasts the separation movements constitutional clarity with competing petitions and breaks down common concerns from Albertans who feel frustrated with Ottawa but unsure about independence. 

It's a grounded, thought-provoking conversation about Alberta’s identity, autonomy, and what lies ahead.

Listen for:

4:25 Can a grassroots petition really lead to independence?

7:51 Could Alberta ever become the 51st U.S. state?

14:55 What would actually change if Alberta became sovereign?

35:23 How do you talk to someone still on the fence about separation?

Connect with Guest: Tanya Clemens, Farmer, Educator, Advocate for Agriculture

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Transcript

Announcer (00:00):

Welcome to the Okotoks Podcast where the stories are real, the laughs are accidental, and Carlin Lutzer real estate makes it all possible.

Carlin Lutzer (00:21):

This is part two of a two-part series exploring one of the most important and emotionally charged questions facing Alberta today. In part one, we examine the case against separation. Today we turn the table. This episode is called The Case for Separation Public disagreement is not a weakness in a democracy. It's a requirement and listening to perspectives we may not agree with is essential if we want to understand what's really at stake. This conversation is not about shouting matches or sound bites. It's about hearing the arguments, the concerns, and the motivations behind a growing movement. My guest today is Tanya Clemens. Tanya joins me to discuss the ongoing petition for Alberta's independence, the grassroots momentum behind it, and the legal and political framework that would guide Alberta towards potential separation from Canada. We talk about Alberta's historical relationship with the federal government, the realities and challenges of negotiating independence and the fears many Albertans feel about what comes next. Tanya also explains why she believes a referendum is necessary to truly understand the will of the people and why civil discourse matters now more than ever, you don't have to agree with everything you hear in this episode, but if this is going to be one of the most important questions Albertans are ever asked, then it deserves careful listening. This is the Okotoks podcast and this is the case for separation. Tanya, thank you again for joining me.

Tanya Clemens (02:02):

Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me. I appreciate that you open this up for discourse on all levels and all opinions.

Carlin Lutzer (02:09):

As I spoke with Thomas just a few days ago and we just released that podcast that created more questions than me, and even when I was recording with him, I knew that you and I were going to record again. So I do appreciate your availability to talk to me and work through some of my issues because I certainly do have some issues, but first off, it seems like the signing the petition is going extremely well.

Tanya Clemens (02:41):

It's going a little crazy. Yeah, it's been having tremendous momentum and it's pretty neat just to walk those lines and talk to people in them and see who's coming out and how passionate they are about it. Yeah, it's a good energy.

Carlin Lutzer (02:53):

Yeah. Now, at any point will you guys release how many estimated you have or will you wait until the end to release the amount of signatures?

Tanya Clemens (03:04):

Well, I actually don't sit on this side of Stay Free Alberta. That's a petition campaign that's like Mitch's campaign with his question. So I don't have all the ins about that, and I kind of suspect that they will leave the numbers for quite a while and just kind of keep going with the height and the momentum that we have.

Carlin Lutzer (03:20):

Yes, and the amount of signatures that you need is 177,000.

Tanya Clemens (03:25):

Yeah. That's what you need for the bare minimum to fulfill the legal requirements, but obviously our goal is much higher than that, and it's been openly stated that they're hoping to collect a million plus signatures on the petition,

Carlin Lutzer (03:37):

And that in turn will send an even stronger message and following other different podcasters and people that are on social media, they feel that then if they get to that million mark, that even people at the different levels of government may start throwing in support for separation at that time as well. Is that something you expect?

Tanya Clemens (03:57):

That's kind of the hope, I guess, and it kind of goes back to I think Ralph Klein days when he said, if you build the parade, someone will get in front of it, and we're hoping that that's actually the parade that we can deliver a mandate during the petition phase to Alberta to the government and say, look, this is how many people are adamant that we need this to happen and this is how passionate they feel about it. So that's what we're trying to deliver as a mandate then instead of waiting for the referendum even.

Carlin Lutzer (04:23):

Right. For sure,

Tanya Clemens (04:24):

And having your government on board is good. It's always great to have them advocating too and helping you navigate the legalities of it, and there's certain things they can do to help out if they wanted to, but at the same time, we don't need them to get in front of the parade. We can just do this as the grassroots movement. It is by and for Albertans.

Carlin Lutzer (04:43):

Right, for sure. So I certainly do have a few more questions. I guess in my mind there's a little bit more fear I guess, in my mind as to even from the last time that we talked about and where my fear is coming from is I guess even just the events of the last week when we start talking about separation. Then we look at what's transpiring down south with Donald Trump in Greenland, and basically it seems right now the US has a president in place that if he wants something, he's going to do whatever he can to get it. When we become the sovereign nation, how do you see us being able to negotiate with anybody, let alone Donald Trump, because if he wants something, he's going to come in and get it?

Tanya Clemens (05:38):

Well, we already have had people go down and talk to the highest levels of the US administration and get some assurances from them and try to start negotiating what these trade agreements could look like and what's being proposed is an actual free trade, no tariffs agreements between Alberta and the us, which is something pretty, and considering that 88% of our trade is already with the us, it's likely that they will continue to be our largest trading partner, but we're also cut off from a lot of the global markets because of decisions that our federal government makes for us. Albertans don't get to decide their own fate that's negotiated by the feds and then their punitive policies against us and trying to break down our oil and gas industry and some of our resource industries. I think that this will give us the autonomy and the leverage too, to actually negotiate from a position of strength.

(06:30):

And with Trump, I know that they like to throw that out there because everything Trump is trying to put fear into people. We've had discussions with his administration, it's going to go forward, and I would expect a largely peaceful way. There's no talk of 51st states of them taking over Alberta, and that's part of a legal issue that they would have in the US anyways, that would have to pass between both houses, I think with a 66% majority in both, and they know that it's impossible to even achieve that. So Alberta becoming part of the US or being taken over by the US is no more likely to happen than Canada being taken over by the US right now.

Carlin Lutzer (07:06):

Okay. Do you think it's a possibility that the US can take over Greenland right now?

Tanya Clemens (07:12):

I would think that they couldn't, but honestly, I'm not super involved in world politics on that level, and I don't know the mind of Trump and the US governments and what they're trying to achieve. I know that in November they put out a document about their national security policy and Alberta, Saskatchewan, Canada, Venezuela, Greenland, that was all part of it, trying to make sure that they had a safe and secure America, and that's what countries do, right? America first, Canada first, and if we were sovereign, we would be put Albertans first as a priority as well.

Carlin Lutzer (07:46):

Right. For sure. Now, within the separatist movement camp, do you believe that there could be, I guess, divisions where some people, yeah, their ultimate goal is to hope that we do become that 51st state and this is a stepping stone to that goal. Do you believe that that is an issue?

Tanya Clemens (08:12):

I don't think that that's an issue at all. Those

(08:15):

Conversations have been had, and it was kind of laughed at actually by both sides when our delegation went down to the US that that's not something that's being proposed. It's definitely not in our best interest. I would say. Why would we jump from the CRA into the IRS? This is about gaining more autonomy and self-determination for Albertans not being subjected to a different rule. So there might be a group, a small group that still advocate that, but either way, the steps are that you have to become a sovereign independent nation before that could even be entertained.

Carlin Lutzer (08:46):

Right. When I chatted with Thomas, he stated, he said, the vast majority of Albertans want to stay in Canada.

Tanya Clemens (09:00):

True or false? Well, I guess we will see that at the referendum, and that's why it was interesting because I listened to Thomas's interview and he was really advocating that the way that he had phrased his petition question, even though it was to propose a referendum, like he filled out that paperwork, he was advocating that the question would go to the legislature, the premier would take it there, and then our MLAs would vote on that on Albertan's behalf, which to me is completely against the democracy. And what a question, the biggest question that Albertans have ever faced is owed. I believe that Albertans should be able to go and have their vote. Every voice heard equally not given to an MLA that perhaps they didn't vote for, that they didn't elect, or that has to toe the party lines. This is something that Albertans should decide for themselves. So I think that going to a referendum will give us those answers of what Albertans really want

Carlin Lutzer (09:55):

For sure. Okay, so I'm confused. I'm confused because I,

Tanya Clemens (10:01):

It's very confusing. There's lots,

Carlin Lutzer (10:04):

There really is because with what Thomas did inside of the Forever Canadian movement basically, well, I think I said it, but he agreed that what the A PP is doing now with the petitions is basically a moot point. And I said that based on what he was telling me, what's your interpretation of what's going on?

Tanya Clemens (10:30):

And that's where it would be great to actually have a sit down conversation with Thomas so we could clear up some of these things. Maybe he's not fully aware or is just trying to put fear, I'm not exactly sure of the intention, but his

Carlin Lutzer (10:42):

Question, can I cut you off for one quick second? He did say that, and that wasn't my understanding when they were signing, getting everybody to sign the petition that they were going to move towards a referendum, but he seems to think that that was part and parcel of what actually what forever Canadian movement was all about.

Tanya Clemens (11:07):

So it could be a referendum at a policy level is what he was proposing. So our questions sit at two very different levels, and his is a policy one that can be taken to the legislature and voted on there. Ours is a constitutional one, so I would say that his is more equivalent to the referendum that we had on equalization. 62% voted, we want equalization gone, and then the government can just walk away from it. They know that that's actually a constitutional question that can't be opened. It doesn't carry the same weight, whereas our question has been phrased word for word following the Clarity Act, and we actually have a legal process for the secession of a province from the nation in Canada. We're one of the few countries that actually has that. So we've been following this legal process to separate, and that puts us at a constitutional level, so our questions aren't really comparable.

(11:56):

And even when our question was being weighed out by the Court of King's Bench, which was kind of like a weird intervention that they were proposing to it, justice fbe said that Thomas's question was nothing burger, because it doesn't actually stick to anything. They can just walk away from it. So that's kind of the different, they're on two different playing fields, if that makes sense. Opening up the Constitution is a huge deal, and I know that he proposed some things about having the premiers get together and getting them to get on board and side together so that we could open up the underrepresentation of Albertans at all levels of governments, or we could look at the equalization formula and maybe end equalization, things like that. But that's not something that can actually happen within Constitution for Albertans. There's too many hurdles that we just can't possibly jump over. They're impossible hurdles. And I think I talked about them the last time that Ted was talking to you on your podcast too, but

Carlin Lutzer (12:59):

Yeah, no, and so basically what you're saying is that this is necessary to kickstart the referendum now when people sign up, when they show up to sign the petition, what's the question that's being asked?

Tanya Clemens (13:16):

Oh my gosh, the question just changed, so I'd have to actually, yeah. Well, from the original one, because they had to resubmit the question then and now they submitted it to be exactly in line with the wording of the Clarity Act. Should Alberta cease to be a province of Canada to become an independent state? I think it's, sorry, I might've misquoted it slightly. I should have it memorized, but I don't often have to spout it off the top of my head. I usually read it so I don't mess it up.

Carlin Lutzer (13:46):

Yeah, no, that's okay. Yeah, because it is such obviously a pivotal time, rarely do we as Albertans have the opportunity to go vote where it actually makes a difference When it comes to our position in Canada, it's basically up to the eastern side of Canada, and finally we are able to go and vote to make a difference. Now, just because you're showing up to sign your petition does not mean that you are voting for Alberta to leave Canada. We are just taking this to a referendum, and I believe that this is something that is needed and hopefully we can move it along as quickly as possible. Now, when you guys submit the signatures, when do you hope that there is a referendum vote? How quickly do you want to see that happen?

Tanya Clemens (14:48):

Well, our premier has made it pretty clear and multiple times she stated that it would be in October of 2026. So this year, in this calendar year, Albertans are going to go to the polls and they're going to tick a box to say whether you believe we should pursue becoming an independent nation or whether you want to stay with where we are right now. That question is coming, and I think that's what's so important. I'm not in a rush for it to get here because I think there's an educational component to it. There's a lot of fear and it's very scary. And I know for me, after I've looked at a lot of the information, the certainty of where Canada is headed and the path that we're on to me is far scarier than any uncertainty of forming a new nation. And none of us advocate that this is going to be an easy, simple solution, but there's parts of it that are not nearly as complicated as what people might put out in fear either. And we are a resourceful, ingenious, hardworking, gritty group of Albertans that can absolutely get this done. Other countries have done it or people saying that Albertans are not capable of doing this, for sure we can do this.

Carlin Lutzer (15:54):

Yeah, absolutely. So when I talk to people, you talk to people with the Forever Canadian movement and then just people that I know, and it's usually the older demographic that they concern, what comes out of their mouth within the first 15 seconds is the CPP. Don't touch my CPP for sure.

Tanya Clemens (16:16):

And

Carlin Lutzer (16:17):

That's a huge concern for people. Can you talk a bit about that?

Tanya Clemens (16:21):

And people should be asking those tough questions and thinking about how this could affect their households and have those concerns so that we can talk about them and educate them on them too. So the CPP is actually a portable pension. So wherever you move in the world, that pension is owed to you and comes to you. So whether you live in the sovereign country of Alberta or you live in New Brunswick or you move to the states or you move to Europe, you are still able to collect your pension with the numbers that we have done on a very conservative side. And this document is called the Value of Freedom, which is available on albertaprosperity.com. It's been out there for the public to weigh in and give feedback on for months. So economists have weighed in and it was designed with economists. It uses very conservative numbers, but the numbers are stating that an Alberta pension plan would actually be able to pay out about double of what you're collecting with CPP right now, whereas the contributions would be about half. And I would also say that there's probably a little bit of a concern right now with CPP if you choose to stay within Canada because that has just been added to the asset line by the federal government, and I'm not convinced that that money is going to be there

Carlin Lutzer (17:33):

For sure. What are you preparing people for? Are you thinking months, years of a little bit of a fiscal disruption in Alberta, we return to stability. It's going to take a while. There's going to be things that people are going to be, okay, what about this? What about that? What are the expectations of there being a little bit of a blip or a major blip when it comes to fiscal?

Tanya Clemens (18:07):

Well, I would expect that there would definitely be some blips. There is a lot to solve and a lot to get in place. People should probably be talking to their own economists and their own financial planners to make plans for that. But with New Alberta coming on with likely a US dollar where we actually trade anyways and our oil already trading in US dollars, I think that the hiccup will be smaller than what we realize, and immediately we would have all of those federal taxes and income taxes gone. So your take home pay is going to be substantially more. All the hidden costs that are in our foods and our goods and services that we purchase right now, all those hidden taxes on taxes, those will be removed. So not only will you have a bigger take home pay, you'll have more buying power, your dollar will go further. So I think that that will help kind of balance out any short term hiccups

Carlin Lutzer (19:05):

For sure. So when Quebec was looking at doing the same thing, the thing that I remember, again, I'm really dating myself because I was in high school and that was all happening and us kind of laughing at them a little bit because Quebec was expecting to still use our currency. They were still expecting trade to happen. They were still expecting us to use their dairy, and we're all just kind of like, yeah, as if that's going to happen. What kind of currency are we looking at? Are we looking at going to the American currency or would we try to do the same thing that Quebec tried to do and use the Canadian currency for a while or what are some of the thoughts that you guys have towards that?

Tanya Clemens (19:49):

Well, again, these are all things that would be decided by all Albertans after a successful referendum vote. There would be a constitutional conference where all the players, all the people, the groups are brought in to have a conversation and negotiate the secession from Canada. So those kinds of things would be decided then. And even a constitution would be voted on ratified and decided by Albertans. Some ideas that are being proposed right now is looking most favorably to going to the US dollar, especially in the short term because we do trade so much with us and oil is traded in US dollars, and then perhaps maybe moving to our own currency.

Carlin Lutzer (20:24):

Right, for sure. So yeah, projecting forward, I think our most difficult negotiations when it comes to trade would be with the rest of Canada, with BC and how they're going to use our highways to get across and railways and all that stuff. There certainly would have to be some kind of negotiations. Now back to Trump, and I'm going to with him saying these things about taking over Greenland. I'm sure there's people in Greenland that would love to be part of the us. I'm sure that there's people that are like, yeah, this is great. It's going to be better. He's learned them with a hundred thousand dollars or whatever. So Trump 79, again, I don't know all the timelines as to how quickly things will start falling into place, but those negotiations would be brutal. They

Tanya Clemens (21:23):

Could be. It depends. We do have leverage going into them, and I think it just depends who we have advocating for us on our behalf. But there is another avenue that is put out there that's on the day of a successful referendum vote or after that even we could unilaterally declare our sovereignty as long as we had two or more nations verifying that and acknowledging us as a sovereign nation. So the US has already given us those guarantees, and I'm sure there's a lot of other big trading partners that would like access to our resources that we've never been able to give them access to or trade with them because Canada has shut us down on those things. So that is another option as well. I think doing the more diplomatic negotiations is something that we would ideally pursue right now because we've been following the legal process this entire time, and that's kind of the steps we would continue. But that is an alternative too, and I'm sure Canada knows that

Carlin Lutzer (22:26):

For sure. For sure. No, there's so many different obviously variables that I don't think anybody can really think about it. But I do hear from so many people when I talk to 'em, they say that this is a pipe dream. There's no way that this can ever happen. What do you say to those types of people that are just saying, you suffered this or crazy?

Tanya Clemens (22:55):

I guess my first thought is what is it that Canada is doing so well for you that makes you so wanting to stay and to watch the decline of our values, our economies, and continue to be part of this nation? What is Canada doing so well for you that you want to stay?

Carlin Lutzer (23:15):

Well, what's playing in my mind right now is Kearney sitting in China a year ago basically saying that they're the biggest threat to us, and now we want to become the biggest partners in trade, the New World order

(23:32):

With no explanation while the new World order. Yeah, it's just, it's that stuff. It's bad policy. In fact, a few months ago I interviewed Dan, former member of Parliament Liberal that is just seeing Ontario is in the gutter and they're looking, he says his kids are looking to move and there's nothing for them in Ontario. They want to move to Alberta. Alberta right now is the only, in my opinion, the shining star of anything positive that can happen in Canada. And there's so many people that are looking at moving here wanting to get out the East or even bc, and it's sad that bad policy is still in place and that it comes to a vote that people will still vote that way no matter what. And it's interesting, Tanya, when I talk to you and when I talk to Thomas, both of them say it doesn't really matter who's in power. It doesn't matter if it's liberals, doesn't matter if it's even the conservatives. Alberta still doesn't get listened to.

(24:59):

I think Thomas made a great point. He says, when Harper was in power. Harper, why would he have to come out here? Why would he have to come and listen to us? He's getting all the votes anyways. He gets all the votes. And Harper was the one that negotiated the equalization, and that puts us behind the eight ball. Now, fortunately for this movement, for your movement, I think we would've taken a huge step backwards if Pierre would've gotten elected. This movement I think would've slowed down quite a bit. But I was kind of thinking that the timing is now for a movement such as this, let's get it all out on the table and let's figure it out. Let's figure it out if we're leaving or we're not leaving as soon as possible.

Tanya Clemens (25:50):

And I think that Pierre not getting in, that was a big driver for the separation movement because I think everyone just felt completely disheartened that we will not get a conservative government in. But what that also has done has given us this time of education. And I now realize too, that even if he had gotten in, there is some fundamental flaws in the way our nation is set up that works against Alberta, that it doesn't matter who we have in power are not going to be able to get addressed because we cannot open up the Constitution. So again, it comes back to that we need seven out of 10 provinces in agreement representing 60% of the population. Well, Quebec and Ontario, or 50% of the population, sorry, Quebec and Ontario already have 60% of the population. So they basically get to control that step. The second step is a majority vote in the House of Commons, and then a majority vote in the Senate.

(26:37):

Neither one of those are favorable to Alberta. And then the fourth hurdle is insurmountable for us because Quebec gets a veto. So if you think that we're going to open up the Constitution to end equalization or to give us more representation, equal representation, that's never going to happen. It doesn't matter who's in power. And the thing I love about this movement, and Thomas says that with his movement as well, that it is non-partisan. This isn't about left versus right. I'm really excited that as a sovereign Alberta, we could actually create a new system of government, one that is a direct democracy that brings power back to the people. Instead of all these layers of bureaucracy and people deciding things for us, they proposed having referendum at your local post office on any tax increases, on anything that affects your household. Basically that's proposed by the government. It first has to be approved and ratified by Albertans. So there's all kinds of really cool things that we could do if we're setting up a new nation that we could do that. We could correct a lot of the mistakes that we've been living under since we joined Confederation.

Carlin Lutzer (27:41):

Right. Do you think there's anything that the federal government could do to stop this momentum?

Tanya Clemens (27:49):

Well, they would be a long list of things. I know Daniel Smith gave them a list of nine demands, and if they addressed all of those and then open up the constitution for constitutional reform, those are possibilities. But that would be changing the whole dynamic and the premise of how Canada works. So I think that that is extremely unlikely. We've been advocating for that for

Carlin Lutzer (28:14):

Forever.

(28:16):

Nobody wants to open up the Constitution, but if they're placed into a situation where they have no choice, and it puts us in a position of power and leverage. And that's one thing that I was thinking about before we jumped on the call today, is the power and leverage when it comes into negotiation. It's nice to have options if we don't have options. That's what stresses me out a lot about not negotiating with the states, just like, well, you guys need a trading partner if we have that before we move forward inside of leaving Canada that paperwork. But again, that's where I don't necessarily trust it, just because we have it in writing with the states, it doesn't really seem right now with the current leadership, it doesn't seem to really matter what kind of writing you have. They're going to do whatever they want. That's where,

Tanya Clemens (29:12):

And I guess that's really no different than what we have with Canada.

Carlin Lutzer (29:15):

No. Yeah,

Tanya Clemens (29:16):

Right. Where is the trust? And we signed an MOU, was it the next day that that was squashed?

Carlin Lutzer (29:22):

Yeah, no, I hear you. I hear you. But I just think if, I dunno, it would be nice if it was a bit of a two step, we get the permission, we now voted that we want to leave. Now we get into negotiations with Canada and the States because I feel if you're only going to one person for a negotiation, they're going to know you're weak and you're really not going to have any leverage when it comes to that. But if that's all taking place before this vote, it sounds like you have people down in the US kind of negotiating those terms already. Is that correct?

Tanya Clemens (30:08):

Yeah, just having those conversations that those terms can be fully negotiated. And I would argue that there is another avenue to this, which I am going into this, wanting Alberta to separate and form the new nation and have the self-determination and create our new constitution and have all those be the shining light of freedom and prosperity for the rest of the world. We are on a world stage for it. But I've had a conversation with a friend too that was on the more of the Forever Canada side of it, but also agreed that our place within Confederation is not fair. And we've been dealing with this for decades and generations of people. So what a yes vote on the referendum for Alberta Sovereignty does is it brings us to that constitutional conference where everyone has to come to the table in good faith and negotiate our secession very well. Canada could come to the table with everything that we are wanting all the boxes ticked off and propose that to us and ask us to stay, and Albertans could then decide what they want to do. I'm proposing that we need to separate and go our own way and negotiate with Canada and how that's going to what we're going to need to give them what they need to give us and seal the deal and then be on our own. But that's a possibility as well.

Carlin Lutzer (31:24):

And I do think that fast forward 10, 15 years down the road and negotiating with Canada might actually be easier than it is today. We can't even, it should be trade our alcohol. We can't trade across borders very well. That still hasn't been lifted. There's still difficulties to trading cross border. I just think that, I personally think that down the road, once the dust settles and if BC wants to negotiate something with Alberta, it's going to be a lot easier because BC will be able to negotiate that on their own. I think the only thing that could save Canada is if we move towards a federation as opposed to a confederation and we break things down where it's simple, here's what the federal government does, here's what the provincial governments do, everybody's on their own,

Tanya Clemens (32:26):

Right? And that's where joining Federation should bring you some of that buying power, some of that negotiation power because you should be stronger altogether, right? That's the premise of it. We're going to have this big voice together and throw our weight around that way, but that's not been the case of the way that it's set up now. So that would be great. I would love for that to happen. And that's very much what we've been advocating for generations as well. But I just think that the likelihood of that happening is

Carlin Lutzer (32:52):

Right. Yeah, no, I know. I'm just throwing stuff out and I know that you guys have been on this a lot longer than I have, but I do certainly appreciate what you guys are doing. I appreciate the momentum. It's awesome to see Canadians excited about something. It's awesome to see it being done peacefully. There's a lot of countries that would do something like that. Well, even in Quebec when they were talking, it was not peaceful when they were in negotiations to separate from Canada, what kind of mandate, what kind of mandate? So we fast forward to the vote. What kind of mandate is Alberta saying needs to be reflected in the vote? Is it 50 plus one in order for separation to happen?

Tanya Clemens (33:50):

Yeah. Well the Clarity Act is a little vague — the Clarity Act. They don't actually specify what the clear majority is, but commonly accepted clear majority is 50% plus one. I'm hoping this we have a far higher number than that even.

Carlin Lutzer (34:07):

Yeah. So Tanya, what would you say to Albertan like me that yeah, I'm sick. I'm sick and tired of what's happening with the federal government. Immigration is completely out of control. There's no stopping it. It's like there's damn that we've opened up and it's just the way it is crime. You look at that person that ended up killing that guy in Calgary, that lady that was showing the rental property to that guy, that guy should have been in jail, that guy I was hearing yesterday, the history of stuff that crime's completely out of control. Taxes are completely out of control. Nothing's working, nothing's working well except for the government. They're living high on the hog. What would you say to an average Albertan like me that knows we have a pretty bad deal, but we're still on the fence because we're afraid?

Tanya Clemens (35:16):

I guess I go back to that comment that to me, after everything that you've just listed and where Canada is going, the certainty of where we're headed if we stay within Canada is far scarier to me than any uncertainty of becoming a new sovereign nation. And I've got five questions. I made a little video about it a while ago, and I'll probably use these five questions when I speak on January 26th. We're having a big event in Calgary and thousands of people will be there. So this is kind of the basis of what I just wanted people to actually sit and reflect on how Canada and how a sovereign Alberta affects your own home, your own household. So the first one is Alberta better off today than it was 10 or 20 years ago? Not just emotionally, but financially, economically in terms of opportunity. Do you feel like families are getting ahead? Are kids confident in their futures? So ask yourselves that one.

Carlin Lutzer (36:15):

Okay, I'm going to cut in here. I'm going to try to keep quiet. I'm having a hard time, not, this is really hard for me. Sure, sure. You can cut in whenever you want. I know, I know. But the answer's right there. So anyways, I'm going to mute myself while you ask these questions because I just

Tanya Clemens (36:32):

Don't feel you happy. I just want to

Carlin Lutzer (36:33):

Interject. I just did.

Tanya Clemens (36:35):

And I think that people just need to sit with them for a minute too and reflect on them because the answers are a little bit heavy, I think, for most Albertans. But number two is who should ultimately decide Alberta's future? Should that be decided by Ottawa or should that be decided by Albertans? Because no matter where you land on the sovereignty question, that's what sits underneath all of it. Who should have the final say over our resources, our economy, our priorities? Should that be here or should that be in Ottawa? The third one is if Alberta consistently contributes more than it receives, how long is that sustainable? And that's just a math question. You don't even have to sit with that in your heart for too long. How long can we actually sustain overpaying what we are every year?

(37:20):

The fourth one is what happens if we do nothing, if we don't ask these hard questions, if we don't seek education, if we don't sit down and have civil discourse with each other, if we just assume that somehow our place within Canada is going to get better magically one day, because I think that if you're still standing still, that's a choice and it has consequences too. And then the fifth question I have is what kind of Alberta do you want to leave behind for your kids and for your grandkids? I think about the people who will farm this land after I'm gone and run businesses and raise families long after I've passed. Do I want them to become more dependents or to become more self-determined? So those are the ones I just would ask your listeners to reflect on a bit and see where their conversations about that leads you to. There is a lot of town halls being put on all across the province by Stay Free Alberta. There's lots of different independent groups that are speaking and educating. And it's good to go to those and ask the questions that you're asking or ask the questions that Thomas has and get some clarity and have that discussion because it's not simple and it is scary and it's not simple. That's a guarantee.

Carlin Lutzer (38:39):

Yeah. I'm sure that there's things that, because you can't think of all the scenarios and all the questions and everything that will fall into place if this transpires, but those questions that you do leave, there's times when I think I would like to leave this country, but where do you go?

Tanya Clemens (38:59):

And that's one of the problems as well. And why leave? Why not do this referendum answer yes and put in the work to building something better, to building the best nation on earth? We would instantly be one of the wealthiest nations on earth. But think of the beacon of freedom and self-determination. We could also be, and maybe that in a way helps save the rest of Canada too, because I know Saskatchewan, Quebec, a lot of them are not happy with the way that our nation is set up and their role within it. Maybe this would help them carve that avenue that we can make something better for every province.

Carlin Lutzer (39:37):

And I would hope that it would be on the table. And I know that we set up our government differently that that's

Tanya Clemens (39:44):

Definitely on the table. We

Carlin Lutzer (39:45):

Have proper representation that when I send someone to Ottawa, I send someone to Edmonton or whatever, that they actually listen to us as opposed to, well, my boss told me to vote like this, so I got to vote like this.

Tanya Clemens (40:04):

And that's been proposed, getting rid of the party system, actually having civil servants that serve the civilians, going back to a direct democracy. So that's an exciting part because why would we want to continue something that's broken and not working into this new phase of excitement of building a new nation? We're not going to carry the old that's been dragging us down the layers of bureaucracy and corruption. We're going to do things better.

Carlin Lutzer (40:29):

Well, have you ever listened to Ronald Reagan's final resignation speech? Yes,

Tanya Clemens (40:36):

I've listened

Carlin Lutzer (40:37):

To it before. It's such a powerful speech. And what he talks about is, and Ronald Reagan just had that sauce spoken this, he was leaving office, he had served his time, his eight years, and he was just saying, we are civil servants. We're here to serve. And I look at what you guys are doing, and in no way can I see how this is self-serving. You guys are serving the people of Alberta, even the people that disagree with what you are doing. You guys are passionate, you love Alberta. And coming back to that foundational thing as to how similar we all really are, even though we may not agree on this topic, we all love Alberta. We're sad. I think everybody's sad as to where Canada has gone. And I think I personally believe that it is time to really pursue this and get in front of people. Now, are there going to be debates, do you think is going to be, is it going to get that public? Are there going to be debates on TV between the two sides? And how do you see that folding out?

Tanya Clemens (41:52):

I kind of doubt that there will be, but I know from listening to your interview with Thomas AK as well, that he had said in us that as people with, we should sit down altogether and discuss our ideological differences. And I think that's how we make sure that we're not overlooking important steps or considerations as we're pursuing becoming a sovereign nation. And that's how the forever Canada side gets educated on maybe some merits of pursuing sovereignty that they didn't realize because only in those discussions does that ever come out. So we have a lot of town halls that are being put on, but to get a debate happening has been turned down every time we proposed it. I'm a farmer and a teacher and a mom. I'm not a world-class politician, a career politician, a trained debater, anything like that. But I'm happy to sit down with Thomas or anyone that wants to have a conversation about it and let's teach me what I don't know about it, and maybe you'll learn a few things from me as well.

Carlin Lutzer (42:50):

Well, yeah. And that's the thing is being able to actually listen. And it's funny because well, having conversations with you, having a conversation with Thomas, there are so many things that we do agree upon.

Tanya Clemens (43:03):

Exactly.

Carlin Lutzer (43:05):

And it's focusing on those things that we do agree upon. But it's funny, if you have a rich uncle and the rich uncle kind of determines, okay, this is where we're going to go for dinner and he's going to take everybody to Disneyland. Well, he decides this, he gets to do this. Typically the one with the money has a little bit of the power and the control, but we have tipped the balance because it's only comes down to voting power. And we've taken it for years from Ottawa. And there is, every time that I talk to you, Tanya, I always leave very hopeful that it can be different. That's

Tanya Clemens (43:52):

Good. You should be,

Carlin Lutzer (43:53):

Yes.

Tanya Clemens (43:55):

Albertans should feel hopeful. We are resourceful and gritty and determined and highly skilled. If this is something that Albertans choose, I have no doubt that we will do it very, very well.

Carlin Lutzer (44:07):

Well, Tanya, I do appreciate your time today. I know you're such a busy lady, and yeah, I do appreciate what you guys are doing, and I appreciate Thomas presenting the other side as well and trying to dig out the truth. And that's what we need to do as Albertans is extract, not just get stuck on one side and decide this is what we're doing, and I'm not changing, but to continue the discourse, to listen to podcasts, to YouTube talks or whatever where people maybe are presenting the other side so we can actually learn and see if there's anything that we may be able to pull out of there. And I do, I appreciate what you're doing. Ran into some of the volunteers the other day in Okotoks, and they were all so very gracious and doing such a great job collecting signatures, and again, very proud Albertans doing what they feel they need to do. So it's a great movement and it's an exciting movement, that's for sure.

Tanya Clemens (45:14):

Yeah, and the question is coming in October, so I think Albertans just need to know that that is a reality. This will be the most important question that we will probably be asked in our lifetimes as Albertans. We're way more on the same side across Alberta than people realize, as you've alluded to as well. And I listened to Thomas's interview, we want the same things for Alberta out of a love for Alberta. This isn't a left or rights or a politically divisive movement. I think this is actually a unifying movement. We're pursuing self-determination, prosperity, respect for Albertans that should be unifying across the board. We might differ on how we think right now, we need to navigate to get to that point, but I think we can all agree that that is deserved for Albertans.

Carlin Lutzer (45:59):

Awesome. For sure. Anything else, Tanya?

Tanya Clemens (46:01):

I guess I would just say that I know that it's scary and it's overwhelming, and when I start talking to people about the list of things to do if we choose to become a sovereign nation, yeah, it's definitely overwhelming and we're not unrealistic to that. But again, I think that the certainty of where we're headed within Canada is far scarier for me. And I want so much better for my children and my grandchildren, and this is our opportunity to actually create something new and better and safe and free and prosperous. So I would hope that people would just open up that conversation, ask questions, and have some civil discourse.

Carlin Lutzer (46:34):

Absolutely. Tanya, thank you for your time.

Tanya Clemens (46:36):

Thank you so much for having me on again, for having all sides heard and be able to speak and just having that discussion. I appreciate it.

Carlin Lutzer (46:42):

Thank you. That was part two of our series on Alberta's Future featuring Tanya Clemens. Whether you agree with the idea of separation or not, this conversation makes one thing clear. Albertans care deeply about autonomy, self-determination, and having a real say in the direction of their province. As Tanya put it, the certainty of where Canada may be headed feels more unsettling to some than the uncertainty of forging a new path. This debate isn't going away. This question is coming, and for many, it may be the most important one they've ever asked, as Albertans, we may differ on how to get there, but there's broad agreement that the conversation itself matters and that it must be handled with respect, honesty, and open ears. If you miss part one, I encourage you to go back and listen to the case against separation so you can hear both sides of the discussion. If you found this episode valuable, please share it, subscribe and leave a review. These conversations grow when people are willing to engage thoughtfully rather than retreat into camps. Thanks for listening, and until next time, stay curious, stay civil, and keep the conversation going.

Announcer (48:04):

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