Growing Pains or Growing Smart? What Okotoks' Future Really Looks Like

What does it actually take to grow a town without losing its soul? 

That question sits at the heart of this episode, one of the timeliest and revealing conversations Carlin Lutzer has brought to the community. 

In this episode, Carlin sits down with Jeff Greene, Director of Community Growth and Identity for the Town of Okotoks, the man overseeing planning, engineering, economic development, heritage, and more. 

Jeff has called Okotoks home for over six years, arriving from Lethbridge with nearly a decade of municipal leadership experience. 

Together, Carlin and Jeff walk through the entire development process, from land annexation to keys in the door, while tackling the real questions Okotokians are asking about density, traffic, infrastructure, and whether life in Okotoks can stay distinctly Okotoks as the town grows. 

If you care about the future of this community, this is the episode to listen to.

Listen for:

4:02 How does the development process actually work in Okotoks from annexation to completion?

11:45 Are contracts locking Okotoks into developments residents may not want?

20:02 How is the Town of Okotoks protecting community identity in newer neighborhoods?

29:29 What is the identity-driven growth strategy and what does it mean for Okotoks?

40:52 Who actually pays for the roads, bridges, and infrastructure that growth demands?

Connect with Guest: Jeff Greene, Director of Community Growth and Identity in Okotoks 

LinkedIn| Website

Connect with Carlin

Email | Website | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram

Sheep River Dog Rescue formally know as Moe Dog Rescue.  Passionate about giving Dogs another chance.

Special thanks to Okotoks Nissan for arranging this podcast with Kelly Hrudey.

Transcript

Announcer (00:00):

You found the Okotoks Podcast sponsored by Carlin Lutzer Real Estate. No refunds if you laugh too hard.

Carlin Lutzer (00:18):

Growth in Okotoks is one of the most talked about topics in town right now. Whether you've lived here for 20 years or just moved in, you've probably looked around and thought, "What's going on? " New communities, higher density, traffic concerns, and a lot of unanswered questions. That's really where this conversation started for me. I began asking, how does growth actually work? Who makes the decisions? And how did we get here? So today I'm sitting down with Jeff Greene, the director of community growth and identity for the town of Okotoks, to walk through the entire process from annexation all the way to keys in the door. Now, as you listen to this, I want you to think about your own experience living here. What are you seeing? What do you like? What concerns you? Because I want to hear from you. Wherever you're listening, take a minute after the episode and leave a comment or a question.

(01:23):

This isn't a one and done conversation. We're going to keep this going with the town and with the community. This is about understanding the system, not just reacting to the outcome. And fair warning, this conversation might answer some questions, but it'll probably spark a few more too. Let's get into it.

(01:47):

Jeff, thank you for joining me this afternoon.

Jeff Greene (01:49):

Oh, it's my pleasure, Carlin. Look forward to the conversation.

Carlin Lutzer (01:53):

Yeah. So I'm wondering if you can kind of tell us what your role is at the town of Okotoks.

Jeff Greene (01:59):

Sure. Yeah. I'm the director of community growth and identity. So departments that are within that portfolio are the planning department, economic development, culture, heritage, engineering, building inspections, assessment, community social development, and environments. So it's a fairly diverse portfolio, but it's defined around both those departments that help manage growth and those that are responsible for ensuring that Okatoke's identity is maintained.

Carlin Lutzer (02:38):

Yeah, that's a big portfolio. And I think that is something that as we are certainly growing, that is something that we all want to see. We all moved here for a reason and we want to keep that identity, so to speak. So again, thank you for joining me. How long have you lived in Okeechoke for?

Jeff Greene (02:58):

I've lived in Okotoks just over six years.

Carlin Lutzer (03:02):

Six years. Okay. And am I mistaken, you came from Lethbridge before

Jeff Greene (03:05):

Then? That's correct. Yeah. I was at the city of Lethbridge for almost 10 years before this.

Carlin Lutzer (03:10):

Okay. Right on. Well, this is great. And like I said, I do appreciate you. Appreciate the time. And as we are talking about growth and development, it seems like I think where this conversation got started, Jeff, was when the town posted that this Hopewell Residential is going to be doing some virtual meetings with the new development that is taking place. Obviously, I think we all need to be educated as to how this process takes place with new developments. Basically, if you could give us the eagle view of point A to Z as to how a development gets started in regards to annexation rate until the time the builders and developers turn over the keys to the town, I guess.

Jeff Greene (04:02):

Well, that's quite the process to describe, but I'll kind of give you the ... I'll start from vacant land, if you will. So development almost always starts with private landowners or developers. It's not the town. The town doesn't buy land, assemble land, or initiate subdivisions. The role of the town is to set the policy environment. So the policy environment begins with documents like our municipal development plan. So our municipal development plan is a statutory requirement that all municipalities have to have, which basically sets the framework for growth across the entire municipality. And in Okotok's case, we have also developed out our growth strategy. It's very specifically defined as an identity-based growth strategy because we are certainly looking at how to articulate the development of new areas in the community, but that aren't done so in a way that are fiscally responsible, manage infrastructure and preserve the character of the town.

(05:23):

So once land is typically annexed, like the last annexation that was done in Okotoks was 2017.

(05:35):

In 2017, the town annexed lands, but those lands are not automatically turned on to growth. They have to follow up statutory planning process begins with looking at large sector-based areas. So for example, you mentioned the Hopewell Residential Community, that's in the West Okotoks area structure plan. So the area structure plan was set up for the lands in the southwest of the town, and that sets the more detailed blueprint for the location of arterial roads and areas that must be set aside for environmental purposes like wetlands. There's a large crowd controlled wetland in the southwest. There's also some significant ridge areas that are set aside. And then from that plan, which like I said, sets the broad strokes for an area, the next step in the process is what we call the neighborhood structure plan. So in that large area of the southwest, once the area structure plan is approved, you then have neighborhood-based plans.

(07:02):

So the Tiltson area, for example, was a neighborhood area structure plan. And that NSP is also a document that ultimately goes to council for approval. And behind all of these plans, there are numerous technical studies that have to go into them before they can actually be finalized and brought forward to council. So things like traffic impact assessments and stormwater assessment and sanitary analysis, all of these are studies that have to go into that framework of that plan and be confirmed that the technical feasibility is there and that the financial capacity is there for account to be able to manage these new areas.

(08:00):

And then from after the neighborhood structure plan, then you have land use applications. So the land use bylaw the town has, all municipalities have, sets the requirements for individual lot sizes and height of buildings and spatial circumstances, and that's managed through the land use bottle. So that's the next part of the process is you have to assign land use. So for example, in tilts and you had phase one land use that was established a few years back. And then from that land use decision, then you move forward with subdivision and that's where you actually create individual lots. And then you have development permits that have to be issued, and then you have building permits that have to be issued. So what started, for example, in 2017 with the annexation of the lands in the Southwest, 10 years later, now you're seeing lots actually built in that area.

Carlin Lutzer (09:06):

10 years. Right. Right. So it is quite the process that for this Hopewell, it's been 10 years in the making before the community is brought forward into the know, I guess, that this is starting to transpire, right? Yeah.

Jeff Greene (09:23):

It was some years ago where the landowner and original developer of that area started looking at the timing associated with bringing forward a neighborhood plan, and they're just starting to work through that now. So that's some years after they first started looking at that land area, and now they're working through the neighborhood plan process, which is at least a two-year process.

Carlin Lutzer (09:52):

Right. So with the land that's annexed, the town annex the land, then they kind of wait for the developers to approach the town with a proposal. Is that the way that it works?

Jeff Greene (10:04):

Yeah. So we have online, we have what's ... Well, two things. One, the Municipal Government Act, which is our legislative Bible, requires that an area structure plan contains certain elements. So it says you have to contain infrastructure considerations, environmental considerations, the phasing of development, the sequence of development. What we've done as a municipality is we develop what we call a terms of reference for the preparation of area structure plans, and that's on our website. And it further details what the expectations the town has of developers before they initiate either an area structure plan or a neighborhood plan. They then approach the town with following that process to say, "Here's how we intend on proceeding with this application. Does that make sense?" And we navigate that process with them.

Carlin Lutzer (11:02):

Okay. So I did send you all these questions, so I do have some questions to get through, and then hopefully we'll have some time at the end to go for a few more things. So in regards to, in real estate, we talk about absorption rate all the time. With all the contracts that have been signed, we hear quite regularly from the town that basically we can't stop these new developments because of the contracts that have been signed already. If there was to be a hard stop on signing any more contracts with developers, we're probably numerous years down the road, 15, 20 years down the road of new development potentially.

Jeff Greene (11:45):

Well, I think the way you framed the question, Carlyn, was around the perception that development can't stop because of contracts. I would put it this way is that there is very little in the way of us being contractually locked in at early stages. So until council actually adopts a statutory plan or a land use bylaw, so that's following public hearings and them considering the contents of those plans, there's still quite a bit of discretion. So what people I think are often reacting to in terms of that perception is policy momentum, not private contracts. So on annexed lands, there's a lot more flexibility, I would say, at the area structure plan because that's setting in the vision for the area. So broadly speaking, that's fairly flexible. Once you get past the area structure plan, you're starting to lock in more specifics. And as you get down to zoning and subdivision and development, you have much less flexibility because now you've been locking things down kind of like from a cone, from a high level.

(13:12):

As you get further and further down the process, now everything's getting locked in from a statutory and regulatory perspective.

Carlin Lutzer (13:21):

For sure. Now, when it comes to density and units per acre, who ultimately determines density in new communities?

Jeff Greene (13:31):

Well, thanks for that question. It's one I've heard before, and I think there's an assumption that sometimes it's the town, but there's actually three contributing factors to density. One is through the statutory framework. So council adopts our municipal development plan, which is the overall blueprint for the town. It adopts area structure plans and NSPs. So density is prescribed through some of those policy directives. There is also market considerations. So their density is also established by the market to some extent. What can builders reasonably sell is what's their demand for? And then I mentioned earlier already, the Municipal Government Act, so provincial legislation establishes rules that we must follow. So it's not imposed by the town, it's really those three forces that have defined density.

Carlin Lutzer (14:44):

So the town, because we do see a little bit of a history where some of the older communities in town, and correct me if I'm wrong, some of them are three to five units per acre back in the day, the older suntree areas. Then we move into the 1990s to 2010, five units per acre. Then past 2010, we're at eight. Now, are we encroaching on the 12 units per acre in Okotoks?

Jeff Greene (15:18):

Well, you're quite right. I mean, density evolves across a municipality over time. You can look at a Calgary and look at inner city Calgary densities, not downtown, but some of the mature neighborhoods are at a lower density than as you move out and further out. So it's pretty much a reality across the municipal spectrum. So just like those municipalities, Okotoks has evolved. As you were noting, new neighborhoods were typically built out around three to five units per acre up till when the town was maybe 10, 15,000 people. And then it evolves from that stage as land becomes more ... At that point, land is more inexpensive, but then as you start to build out land becomes more expensive, so you start to see increasing densities. So to your point, yeah, I would say since the '90s, probably late '90s into 2000s, right around that eight units an acre.

(16:31):

We're not quite at the 12, though that is the policy threshold right now is 12 units per acre. So we're seeing some communities that are getting up in terms of that density. But as I mentioned, the main reason is that it is a function of the market, land cost increasing, the cost of building roads and facilities becomes more expensive.

(17:00):

So council here started to put a little bit more emphasis on kind of the long-term sustainability. So what you see in newer areas is a much broader mix of housing types. So it's evolved from largely single family to now seeing a lot more townhouses and duplexes so that it creates a little broader choice of housing type for the market.

Carlin Lutzer (17:33):

Yeah. And that's obviously you have the houses that have suites in the basement as well where there seems like, because Galgary's going through that blanket, what they call blanket rezoning, they're kind of reversing that decision that they made, kind of backtracking on that one. But is it my understanding that Okotoks already basically has that blanket rezoning type of thing, especially in the newer areas that it is basically to put suites in, they can do that. It's an easier process. If you want to put a carriage suite above your garage or whatever, if the garage is detached, you can do that as well. It's much easier to get approvals for that.

Jeff Greene (18:10):

Yeah. It's certainly one of the changes that was implemented post annexation. So with the new municipal development plan, town also adopted a new land use bylaw. And the intentionality behind that was to enable up to four units per lot in about 80% of circumstances. We don't allow those situations where there's no rear lane, for example, because that creates an additional burden on the streetscape if you don't have rear lane access to parking. But generally speaking, yeah, that was put in place. And it's been very successful because one of the challenges in Okotoks was affordability. We have a bit of a reverse migration that occurs. So we have commuter traffic that goes into Calgary in the morning, but we also have a reverse flow of traffic that comes into Okotoks for a lot of service employment jobs because affordability is a challenge in Okotoks for anyone working in the service industry.

(19:19):

So creating opportunities for a single unit living really helped to support that part of the market and also looking at how do we encourage small family units and seniors as well. So yeah, the land use bylaw, that was part of the reason for the change to it.

Carlin Lutzer (19:43):

There's a growing feeling that some newer communities may not feel as thoughtfully designed with concerns around traffic flow, parking, and housing mix. How does the town respond to those types of concerns and what safeguards are in place to ensure long-term livability?

Jeff Greene (20:02):

So we've heard those concerns, and I think that the identity-driven growth strategy that council adopted last year was in part meant to address that very specific question. There's certainly standards change over time. So modern communities, modern neighborhoods tend to reflect some different priorities than might have been 30 years ago, that we look towards things like walkability and safety and affordability and long-term maintenance of infrastructure. And so sometimes when a new community is being built, we look at design options that promote a more livable community so that we're not just to say importing a road standard from the city of Calgary. We have a real deliberate set of trade-offs that we want to make in terms of the orientation of houses on streets, the width and character of the streets, making sure that they fit modern design standards that are modeled from a transportation perspective to be supportable from a traffic management perspective.

(21:23):

These are all about making sure we balance trade-offs and how to make a community more livable than it is about cost cutting or trying to change the character of the community. In fact, it's probably more so trying to ensure that the character of the community is enhanced as opposed to simply replaced by subdivisions that might look like every other subdivision in any other community.

Carlin Lutzer (21:50):

Yeah, that's a tough job you have, Jeff, just especially when we look at the units per acre and trying to keep some kind of identity inside of these communities, right? Because the town often talks about sustainability, and if we go a little bit beyond environmental considerations, this includes infrastructure and long-term capacity. How confident is the town that current infrastructure can support projected growth?

Jeff Greene (22:24):

Well, I would say we're very confident in the sense that the way that growth is sequenced in Okotoks, as I mentioned earlier, those steps from area structure plant to neighborhood structure plant to land use to subdivision takes place over multiple years. So when people often think development just appeared overnight, it actually hasn't. It's been a deliberate process over many years and

(22:58):

We sequence our infrastructure so that development helps pay for the roads and the pipes and the recreation facilities. And that's done through a process called offsite levies where growth related infrastructure is paid for by the developer. It's not paid for by the taxpayer. So we charge developers on a per hectare basis, money that goes towards water to wastewater, to roads, to recreation facilities, and that those funds pay for the expansion of that infrastructure. And so each subdivision has a subdivision servicing agreement, which also has a levy calculation so that the town is actually putting the money aside for the expansions that are going to be needed in the future.

Carlin Lutzer (23:54):

Yeah, because I look at south of the river, you look at the communities that are going in there and I think something that everybody can certainly project that in the mornings and different times throughout the day, that the crossing over the river is going to get very, very busy. I was thinking today that you often wonder if some of the ... The planning was pre- 2012, before they lifted the cap, that it didn't really matter where these communities would go. And now it looks like the majority of the annex land is north Okotoks, north of the river, but are we not foreseeing ... I guess this is going to be a few questions here, Jeff. Are we not foreseeing a little bit of some traffic jams across the bridge due to those new communities being developed south of the river?

Jeff Greene (25:03):

Well, I think that I said earlier that the way that the town looks out is, so we do traffic master plans every five years. So we're actually just completing a new traffic master plan, which we expect to be delivered here in the next month. That traffic master planning is done essentially at the ... It cycles along with sanitary master plan, water master plan. And what we have to look at is the growth that's occurring across the town and the impacts that it has on roads and bridges across the town. And so we then sequence improvements into the capital budget that are going to be required in order to facilitate changes that might need to be made to roadways in the town. So go back four years, and if you've lived to yourself car for a while, so you've seen Northridge Drive has been widened in segments from two lanes to four lanes.

(26:15):

It's now up towards what is going to be the new Toyota dealership on Northridge, and that widening has taken place.That's a factor of understanding exactly what the growth of background traffic is from new communities and making sure that the town sets aside money to be able to allow for that expansion of that road network to take place. So that is a proactive measure that the town does in advance of new communities coming on board, then contributing dollars through offsite levees to enable roadway expansions that are going to be required to support that additional traffic that is generated from those communities.

Carlin Lutzer (26:56):

Yeah. I look at that Northridge Drive in between Darcy and Wetterburn is a major concern, I think to a lot of people knowing the amount of people that are going to be coming to Okotoks and to be adding all those traffic lights will certainly slow the flow of the traffic down, right? It does feel that we're not ... It just looks like on the outside, and I guess I'm no expert, that those areas are going to become very, very clogged up. And I think that's where people start to have issues is obviously when their life is impeded by the growth, right? And I think we do need to come to terms with the growth, but I think that our hope is that the town is going to be doing what's in the best interest, yes, to keep the identity of the town. And I guess where I'm coming from as someone that is in numerous communities, throughout my week, not just in Okotoks, but in Calgary and all those things, that the identity of these new communities are basically taking on ... They just have that same Calgary feel to them.

(28:30):

When we are looking at properties that are being built, beautiful properties that are being built, but then right across the street, you have from these $860,000 homes right across the street, you have starter homes right across the street in these newer neighborhoods, and they all allow for rentals in the basement of those as well. And I know when I'm going out and showing properties, I have a hard time parking on the street and there's barely any cars on the street, right? So it's these little things that I think are becoming very concerning to Oketokians that we are just falling to suit and we are striving for this ... I know it's over a 60-year plan, but it's a very, very difficult task in trying to keep the identity that this town does have, right?

Jeff Greene (29:29):

Oh, I concur. I mean, the identity, the reason that we reframed our growth strategy into an identity-driven growth strategy is the message that we're conveying to the development community that is looking at Okotoks. And you have the same challenges in and around the Calgary region, whether it's Cochran, Erij, Chestermere, Strath, or even High River now, Is that outward growth pressure is coming to these communities. And what we've indicated in the growth strategy, if you have a chance to read that or look at that, is that our expectations of the development community here are that any new plan that they submit is identity driven. In other words, there are characteristics of the town of Okotoks that we want to preserve, that small town feel, that quaint commercial kind of downtown, take advantage of the opportunities that the sheep river provides from a recreation and walkability perspective.

(30:48):

These are all ingredients that we're saying, when you're preparing a new plant, how are you attending to those things? Because that's what's really important to Oketokians. And we don't want to see plants come forward that, to your point, that are just simply more of the same from elsewhere in the region.

Carlin Lutzer (31:10):

So if we take Wetaburn, for example, what are some things that the town feels that they've implemented in the community of Wetterburn that gives it an okatokian feel?

Jeff Greene (31:22):

Well, there's a couple of things to keep in mind, Carlyn. One is that Wetterburn and Darcy were both approved. Going back to my comment about time, those were both approved around 2016, 2017. So 10 years ago and five years after we updated our municipal development plan to focus more on identity. So over time, policy changes, and in this particular case, those communities are ... They're being built out on a plan that was approved by, I don't know, three, four councils ago that was premised on a different policy environment than what we have today. So part of what has been achieved through that, not to put any negative on the previous plans that were put in place, because they were done with foresight and thoughtfulness. I would say that introducing diversity of housing, I live in Wetterburn, so there's a much broader diversity of housing. The commercial area that's going to be built out in front of some of the apartments, again, that use of apartment blocks was put in place going way back to 2017.

(32:48):

And that allowed for a different housing diversity because both the legacy municipal development plan, which was the previous plan we had, and the current municipal development plan, all speak to promoting housing diversity so that we can actually have a broad cross-section of livable units for people. So all the housing that you're seeing there, the duplexes, the semi-detached, the apartments, and the single family houses, was all purposeful. And then you also have the commercial development fronting Northridge that will have design considerations intended to enable more of a village feel, if you will, as opposed to just straight on commercial. Even the Toyota dealership, people probably haven't noticed, but that building is actually much closer to Northbridge, so less of a parking lot in front of it. They've introduced a number of features into that Toyota dealership that make it very environmentally responsible. It has solar canopies over their inventory.

(34:01):

They'll have EV chargers. It backs onto a dog park that enables people to actually be able to walk their dogs. So there was a lot of thoughtfulness in terms of the placement of parks, as well as commercial uses and housing diversity in that area.

Carlin Lutzer (34:18):

Yeah. Well, even if we look at Tiltson, could you say that this current administration or the council before really wouldn't have the characteristics that they're trying to implement into Tilitan now? Because you had mentioned that there was the parts of the characteristics of Oketoks into the communities, and I just haven't been able to see that in any communities. Do you know what I mean?

Jeff Greene (34:45):

Yeah. So Tilitson is a good example. I'm not sure how much awareness is that there's a ridge line in the Tiltson community. The town of Okotoks actually was one of the first municipalities in Canada to develop what's called the natural assets inventory. So we actually assigned value to all the natural areas in the community. And in Tilitson, there's a ridgeline of well-treed ridgeline that exists that was actually set aside. It's all protected environmental reserve because of the natural value of that treat area. So there's an element of something that from our environmental lens, as well as a public recreation lens that was set aside, working with the developer to make sure that that wasn't lost through that development.

(35:46):

A couple of other elements that are unique into the Tilletson community, both the entranceway or the main entranceway coming off of Big Rock Trail is intended to be a mixed use commercial area. So when you think about areas that have commercial main floor retail with residential above, less focused around parking and cars and more focused around people activity, that's also something that was introduced into that community. And so trying to create that balance between both housing diversity, but walkable livable experiences, whether that's through a park area, a natural area, or through commercial opportunities for small businesses to locate, those are all some of the ingredients that were introduced into the Tillison neighborhood.

Carlin Lutzer (36:46):

So the West Bridge, I know that that's years down the road. Are we talking 10 years, 20 years before that even starts to get to talk about putting a bridge across the west part of town so you could access the ... Or is that even on the table right now?

Jeff Greene (37:06):

Are you talking west of Okotoks?

Carlin Lutzer (37:09):

Yeah, like west of the current bridge because with the ... Yeah, I just foresee that ... And I guess that's part of the question too is just with the approvals and stuff to put another bridge across the road, do we have to submit to the Alberta government to prove that we have major backups, so we need to get a grant or funding to put another bridge across the river? Is that even part of any conversations quite yet?

Jeff Greene (37:44):

Well, I would say this, that again, the town, we tend to look at things long term. So our municipal development plan is a 50-year plan. Our transportation master plan, sanitary sewer master plan, these all look at at least 25 years out. That Westbridge or West Bypass road was first contemplated by what was the Calgary Metropolitan Region Board at the time, which no longer exists, but they did a south transportation study in 2022, and they looked at prioritizing regional infrastructure that would be required in the Calgary region. And so in the south, they prioritized infrastructure, including bridges and roads that would be required. And that west bypass wasn't on the top 10 in terms of regional priorities. 338 and Highway two was, it was number three on that list. So that one is actually actively in front of the province right now. They're doing design work for an overpass at 338 and Highway two.

(39:02):

Yeah.

Carlin Lutzer (39:03):

I don't know what I was thinking. I crossed there on Saturday and I never should have done that. Absolutely scary.

Jeff Greene (39:10):

I always tell friends and family when they're coming to town, don't cross there.

Carlin Lutzer (39:13):

Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Greene (39:14):

But that one's actively in the pitch. I would say that the west side of things, that's well down the road.

Carlin Lutzer (39:24):

Yeah. And of course we always bring up 32nd, and I think that's where it's just like, I think we know the cost of adding doubling 32nd. And I think then there's the traffic of DRC and the Wetterburn and the lights. And I just think that there's just this ... We can't really predict the future, but we can predict that if we continue to pursue the growth that we're pursuing, and it's going to happen, that we are going to have major traffic issues in this town that are starting to create themselves right now, especially around the schools on 32nd. And then you add the pickleball court, and then you start adding a few more houses up there, but that's still on the 10-year plan for the town. It's just things like that where it just feels like we are headed for some major infrastructure issues in this town.

(40:25):

And I know that we're not made of money, but it's just like, okay, where does the Balancing Act take place with the developer and how the developer does the proposals that are made to the developer to help with infrastructure and different things like that? And those are ... Yeah. And then trying to keep the identity like, my gosh, it just feels like it's a tough gig.

Jeff Greene (40:52):

Just to reiterate one comment, and it's what you said, it comes down to timing and funding. So whether we're talking about a West Bypass road, Highway 338, 32nd, or Northridge, the expansion from what it is now to what it needs to be to accommodate traffic requires funding. Right now, any of that expansion work is paid for by development. So 32nd is a perfect example, right? You have a two-lane roadway right now that it would cost the town significant amounts of money to pay for that now, but any additional traffic that's being generated by growth is paid for by growth. So every new resident that buys a house in Wetterburn or Ridgemont, part of the cost of that house is offsite levies that goes towards contributing towards that expansion of that infrastructure. So new residents are actually paying for the widening of 32nd or Northridge as opposed to existing residents.

(42:07):

That's captured in the price of a house. So we have two ways of municipality can do it. You can either capture that through new housing and through the development to pay for the expansion that's needed, or you can look to secure grants from the province or the federal government, or you can do it through property taxes.

(42:27):

And this council has no plans on doing it through property taxes, so it's limited to our ability to collect it through growth.

Carlin Lutzer (42:34):

Right. So the work that's going on downtown right now, does that have anything to do with the new developments and the levies that are being collected? Does some of that money go towards what's transforming in downtown right now?

Jeff Greene (42:48):

Correct. So some of the plans for ... Well, there's three things that are going into the plans for expansion downtown. One is there needs to be sanitary. There's a limited amount of sanitary capacity in the line on Riverside. So there is offsite levy money paid for by developers that is going into expand that sewer capacity. We also have provincial grant money that we received two years ago. It was about $5 million to support the provision of additional affordable housing. So there'll be housing introduced along with commercial development in that area. So that was a grant funded. And then there's some town funds that go in there because part of that area and some provincial grants as well, part of that area is right adjacent to the Sheep River. So there's some flood protection measures that have to be addressed, as well as that area is serviced by water or storm management facilities.

(44:03):

So those are things that actually also have to be funded. So there's a three-way partnership, if you will, and likely to be a four-way partnership because we'll likely involve, at some point, builders to actually support the development in that area.

Carlin Lutzer (44:18):

Right, for sure. No, that's good, man. I feel like I could talk to you for a long time. You're a wealth of information. You know a lot of what's going on. And I'm sorry we went over time, but I do appreciate your time today, Jeff, and I hope that you come back because this has certainly been an education for me. There's a lot, I think as we talked about, there's a lot of things that the average Joe doesn't see going on behind these new developments and things that are transpiring. I think my story, Jeff, is that my wife and I, we moved here because we were looking in South Calgary and we then just came here for an afternoon with our realtor at that time to look at houses and our eyes were open. We're like, oh my gosh, look at how much space is in between the houses here.

(45:11):

Look how much ... As opposed to we were looking in Auburn Bay and that's 15 years ago and there was a big difference. And yeah, understanding that there needs to be some affordability, but to keep that lure, because there could very well become a day that, well, what's the point of living in Okotoks when all these communities are the exact same as they are in Calgary and the taxes are always going to be cheaper in Calgary because the volume of people, what is the characteristic? What are the things that keep people here? And we got to keep that in front and center of people, right?

Jeff Greene (45:53):

Yeah. No, I don't disagree, Carlin. I mean, I moved to Ocoto six years ago because the town has that reputation, if you will, for preserving that small town character. It has a strong environmental background. It has a beautiful setting in the ... It's kind of a sweet tough spot between the foothills, the Boreal Forest and the grasslands. It's a unique setting. That is something that I know we are really trying to focus on preserving in the face of, and let's be honest, we have a very large elephant in the room next to us called the City of Calgary. And the market forces and the thing that brought you to Okotoks, the thing that brought me Tokotoks is bringing a whole lot of other people to Okotoks because they all want that same thing. So how do you balance the identity with the pressure that you will have for more people wanting to tap into what we've tapped into?

Carlin Lutzer (47:00):

You got a tough job.

Jeff Greene (47:02):

It's interesting. It really is interesting.

Carlin Lutzer (47:06):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jeff, I do appreciate your time and I probably will reach out again. I'll probably have more questions. In fact, would love for you to come back on and just keep the information coming, right? Because it is tough. And I imagine maybe you even know the number, but almost where, okay, what are we at, 32,000 now? Almost where we pass this number where people just kind of stop caring about growth, right? And I think born and raised in Regina, I lived in Calgary as well. When a new community popped up when I was in Calgary, I could really care less. It didn't really bother me. But here, I think this is the only town where it's just like, ah, and it feels like a part of us, part of who we are, part of why we moved here is dying. And I think that's sad to a lot of people.

Jeff Greene (48:10):

Yeah. The unfortunate reality, I guess. And I grew up in Leftbridge, Alberta. When I was born, it was 30,000. It's now 120,000. I was at the city of Eriju for 10 years. When I started at the city of Erigary, it was 20,000 people. It's now 85,000 people. As long as people keep having babies, as long as people keep migrating or immigrating to Alberta, there's going to be growth. The question is going to be where? And how do you manage that growth? Because you can't put a bubble around Okotoks and say, "Okay, just

Carlin Lutzer (48:49):

Stop." Yeah.

Jeff Greene (48:50):

Nervous fell across the line.

Carlin Lutzer (48:52):

No, for sure. And I think that's what they did and we did have a cap, but then all of a sudden we started to have all these communities pop up around us and yeah, we didn't want to lose those tax dollars, I guess.

Jeff Greene (49:07):

Well, tax dollars and it would have the same impact on the community identity, just so we'd have no control. And we would be tired of reliant on the county to try to ... And not that they wouldn't because I don't know, but you'd still have all the pressures.

Carlin Lutzer (49:25):

Okay. Last question. I promise. Last question. Are we done with communities like the west side of our air ranch, the north side of Air Ranch, Simran estates, the bigger estate communities? Are we kind of done with those for a while?

Jeff Greene (49:42):

In terms of ...

Carlin Lutzer (49:43):

Lot sizes, property sizes, because it doesn't seem like we're seeing any new estate areas on the books. Is that true? Sometimes around Darcy, you have the more expensive properties lining the back that are backing up on the golf course or on the ridge or whatever, but we're not seeing an air ranch type of community, larger properties, bigger lots.

Jeff Greene (50:14):

Yeah. I don't think we're done, Carlin. I think it's going to be site specific. So the last three phases of Darcy, for example, that bug up against the golf course, I think you'll see some larger residential lots in those areas, certainly in the south up against the sheep river. There are places where it's still going to make sense for larger estate homes, but it'll really depend on what the market for that is and what people are willing to pay.

Carlin Lutzer (51:01):

Yeah, for sure. Jeff, thanks for your time. Sorry we went a little overtime, but I certainly appreciate your time here today.

Jeff Greene (51:09):

I look forward to seeing the results from our little chat and we'll talk again in the future, I'm sure.

Carlin Lutzer (51:14):

Yeah, sounds good. Thank you, Jeff.

Jeff Greene (51:16):

Chow for now.

Carlin Lutzer (51:27):

That was my conversation with Jeff Greene from the town of Okotoks. And if you're anything like me, you probably learned a few things, but you might also be sitting there with more questions. And honestly, that's the point. Growth isn't a simple topic. It impacts everything from housing and traffic to affordability and the identity of this town we all chose to live in. I want this to be an ongoing conversation. So wherever you're listening, YouTube, Spotify, social media, leave your thoughts, your concerns, your questions, because I plan on bringing more voices into the discussion and continuing to work with the town to dig deeper into how growth is shaping Okotoks. If you found value in this episode, share it with someone else in the community. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.

Announcer (52:20):

You've been listening to the Okotoks Podcast, Solid As The Big Rock, and Proudly Powered by Carlin Lutzer Real Estate. See you next time.