Caregiver Support Is The Best Medicine-Interview with Dr. Warren Wong

We sit down with Dr. Warren Wong to rethink what dementia care should look like when the goal is love, dignity, and real quality of life for both the person living with memory loss and the caregiver. We share hard truths about emergencies, wandering, and burnout, plus practical ways to build trust and get meaningful support instead of trying to white knuckle it alone. 
• Dr. Wong’s journey into geriatrics and the PACE model for keeping seniors in the community 
• Why “call 911” can trigger hospitalization and loss of independence for frail older adults 
• Cultural expectations and caregiver guilt that block families from asking for help 
• Our personal story of refusal to test, crisis diagnosis, and the overwhelm of finding memory care 
• Trust building, routine resistance, and the green light yellow light red light days 
• Why showering can be terrifying and how to approach care with more safety 
• Medicare GUIDE, caregiver training, respite options, and 24 7 dementia support 
• Care navigation versus care coordination and why checklists are not enough 
• Dementia villages, memory cafes, and social connection as part of care 
• “Doing to” versus “doing for” versus “doing with” as a dignity framework 
• Wandering risk and why the first 24 hours matter 
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Transcript

Welcome To Patty’s Place

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Welcome to Patty's Place, a place where we're going to talk about grief, dementia, and caregiving. This podcast is in honor of my mom, Pat, who passed away from dementia about two and a half years ago now. I'm your host, Lisa, and this is a place where you'll know that you're not alone. So grab your cup of tea, your cup of coffee, or if you're having a really bad day, a glass of wine, and we will get talking today. Today I'm very excited about our guest. It's Dr. Warren Wong out of uh he's a clinical professor with the University of Hawaii School of Medicine. Uh, and you focus on geriatric services uh with in design for the senior segmentation. So I'm very excited. Thank you for being here today.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Thanks so much, Lisa. I'm happy to be on Patty's place.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Yes, I think there's just so much to talk about. Uh you're also the founder of geriatric services at Kaiser Permente in Hawaii, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

That's right. And uh I'm uh I'm retired from Kaiser, but uh I was part of the National Planning Committee.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

So okay.

Dr Wong’s Path To Geriatrics

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Well, can you tell us a little bit about your background? Like what drew you to specialize in geriatric medicine.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Well, you know, I've been at it for uh 40 years, and um even before I ever applied to med school, um I was really drawn to care of seniors. And uh it was a way of both serving the community that I I um felt uh affinity to that I'm Chinese American and I felt a strong affinity to um uh uh my uh hometown, Chinatown, San Francisco, Chinatown. And uh there were some very uh innovative things being done back then, and I was thrilled to um experience the working in in a team with one of the original PACE sites, or the actual original PACE site uh called Onlock in San Francisco. And I just really enjoyed the um the work, the um more holistic way of providing care for seniors, not just putting them in nursing

How PACE Keeps Seniors Home

SPEAKER_00 2:19

homes. So and what what is the PACE program The PACE program is a national uh program. It started in San Francisco at Onlock. Onlock is Chinese for peace and happiness. And it's a program that uh people enroll in and get all their services, both traditional Medicare services and an expanded set of support services, uh, while continuing to live in the community. Um and there's a lot of emphasis on them being at a day health center uh to get services during the day. Uh during while they're at the day health center, they uh can get uh physical therapy, a lot of recreational therapy, socialization, and your providers are right there. So uh it would be typical for uh a person to be involved in activities. And if I wanted to see the person, uh that person would just be wheeled into a separate area and we would do uh a short clinic visit. Or once in a while I would just drop by into the activities area and just feel the person's pulse just to make sure that person was doing fine, and that's the work way uh the PACE sites work, they're all across the country now. It's a Medicare benefit for people who qualify, and there are a large number of uh of Medicare um programs across the country, uh PACE programs across the country now.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Oh, okay.

When 911 Is The Wrong Answer

SPEAKER_02 3:52

And in your opinion, how should healthcare for seniors evolve to better meet their unique needs?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Well, I think it it must it really needs dramatic change in terms of not just thinking about disease, but thinking about the person, how it impacts the person and how to um to optimally provide you know quality of life, dignity and and and respect for older people. And the uh I'll give you a very specific example of of that, uh Lisa, is that uh you know, throughout the country, you you when you call your physician, they'll it'll pretty much end with the comment if you are have any kind of emergency, please call 911. Right. Well, that doesn't really serve a lot of older people very well. I mean, if you're a frail older person, uh I always like to make the point that if you're frail and elderly, calling 911 can be a one-way, a one-way call. And by that I mean it's invariably that if you're if you're about age of 85 or older, um if you go to the emergency room, there's a 50% chance you're gonna be hospitalized. And once you're hospitalized, there's about a 50% chance you're not gonna go straight back home.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Oh, I did not know that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah, so um it's not the most supportive way. And uh, you know, a lot of older people say, please don't send me to the emergency room. And there's a lot of reasons for that, and they're legitimate reasons.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Yeah, I I wasn't aware of that statistics.

Culture Guilt And Asking For Help

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Can we talk a little bit about like cultural expectations and like the language barrier and maybe the prejudice that plays the role for caregivers? I know uh you highlighted this in uh the the your future book coming out that you sent me some information on it. But I think that cultural expectations plays a role in things.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah. So uh, you know, uh it'd be really great if we talk about the importance of support for caregivers. Um and you know, the whole concept is that uh you you know, the traditional healthcare system, you go to a physician, then you're always expecting a medicine. Uh and of course, as you know, Lisa, uh medicines for all Alzheimer's disease and dementia in general are only modestly effective at most.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

And I like to make the point that the the best medicine for a person who lives with dementia and for the caregiver is to get support. And that's more effective than than uh the the just getting a medicine from your doctor. And there's some cultural aspects of that is in that you know many people uh who are older have uh you know come from different cultures, and getting support uh means a lot of different things. Um a lot of caregivers feel like within their culture that it's their obligation, um and asking for help from other people and imposing that help from other people on a person uh who uh in a frail elder person is is not uh it's not what is expected. It's it's um it's expected within culture that it's done within the family. And um uh I think there are things some things that need to be overcome with that.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Yeah, I think that is hard because I know that when with my mom when she was in memory care, uh there were, you know, I got to know different family members of other patients, uh other residents, and that came up, you know. The the one woman, she was like, Yeah, she was Hispanic, and she said it was just in the culture that she was supposed to take care of her mom, and she had to fight her brothers because her mom was getting into cars with people she didn't know, you know, and like they just they just kept saying, Well, you can take care of her, and she's like, No, I I can't. I need help. And she struggled with that.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yeah, yeah.

Getting A Dementia Diagnosis During COVID

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Why do you think what are your thoughts, uh Lisa? Uh, did you seek out uh help uh in caring for your uh for Patty?

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Well, my mom, I noticed my mom was wasn't herself for quite a while. And I tried to get her help and she refused to go to the doctor. I even had her at our at our primary doctor, uh, who she knew and loved for years. She refused to take the simple little memory test. She just would not take it. Wow. Yeah. She just, and um, I think on some level she knew something wasn't right, but if you brought it up to her, she got very upset. So finally, when she didn't know who my dad and I were in the house, I told my dad, we have to do something. You know, and luckily my parents had done powers of attorney. Uh, and and this was all during COVID as well, of course. And uh, we took my mom to the emergency room with the power of attorney, and you know, they diagnosed her right away with dementia. And uh, she they diagnosed her with moderate to severe. Um, she lived with me for a month, and that as we were trying to find a place for her because they told us we weren't gonna be able to take care of her at home because she was very mobile still, even though which was highly unusual for the state of her dementia. So it you know, it did. It took a while and it was very overwhelming because I was like, I I don't know where to go. What do I do? You know, like what's the best place uh for that uh with that.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

So it's interesting. Um you raised so many points there right away. One point is that um, and that's a whole different subject, but uh how people are so afraid of memory loss. You know, they're afraid of memory loss in a way that they're not afraid of a failing heart or failing kidneys, they're much more afraid of a of a failing brain. And I think uh those kinds of fears actually make the problem worse, not better.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Yeah, and my dad had a very hard time. He just kept telling me, you know, oh, she's fine, and it's just age. And I was like, something's not right. And so I I struggled for a long time. So in many ways, I feel like I lost my mom years before I actually lost her. You know, because I I could just tell she wasn't and people came to me and said, something's not right with your mom. And I was like, I know, but I can't get her to go, you know, even though as you as you said previously, there's really not a lot of medications, there's not much they can do for it um with that.

Trust Routines And The Green Light Days

SPEAKER_02 11:08

So you talked about too uh that people with dementia, they resist a lot of new routines. So what advice can you give the caregiver for that? Because I I noticed that with my mom about with that.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yeah. Well, you know, there's the the emotional dementi dimension to people who are starting to um lose memory, and there's uh less a feeling of comfort and security. So the space that a person feels comfortable becomes smaller and smaller and um and there's more and more uh anxiety about unfamiliar situations. So um uh that that that is um something that uh you know need needs to be um dealt with.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

So um and and I did notice that with my mom, like she didn't want to go out as much, like even to the grocery store where my dad ended up going to the grocery store more and more. Um and then even when she was in memory care, little by little she didn't want to come out of her room anymore. You know, so I I did notice that she just she just didn't want to do it anymore. Like I could tell that's where she felt safe. And you know, uh with that. So would you oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Well, underneath all that is the subject of trust um and trust, you know, if it's important to build up as much trust as possible. And it's very similar to building trust in a child. You know, if a tr a child trusts you, uh they're willing to do more. And uh trust is something that's really important uh when people are are seeking uh out to um move things along.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

I was gonna say that is very true because there were different times with my mom that I knew she trusted me, even though she didn't know who I was, even in memory care. Uh she would get very upset with showers. She she did not like getting showers, and she would like get so upset. And if I was there, she would like grab onto my hand and be like, please don't leave me, please don't leave me. And and I didn't. And I it sometimes it took me over an hour to calm her down with things, but it was like I knew she trusted me.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

So yeah, and it's really interesting that uh, you know, there's a lot of uncertainty when you're taking care of a person uh who has uh uh dementia or Alzheimer's disease, and every day is different. There may be a day in which everything seems fine, and it's it's a green light for things, and other days in which it's a yellow light, and other days in which it's a red light. When it's a red light, you may as well not try. Uh the skill is when it's a yellow light and turning that yellow light to a green light, and sometimes what you find is that you can't get things done, but sometimes, you know, for whatever reason somebody else can get things done, which I which gets back to the whole issue of why support is so important and getting different people to help out.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Yeah, because sometimes uh I used to be able to get my mom to change her her pants when she'd have accidents, and then after a while I she wouldn't let me do it, but a caregiver could do it for her, you know, with it, the ones that she knew and she liked uh with that. Uh do you do you have any idea?

SPEAKER_00 15:08

The really things in life really change uh when a support system uh gets put in place. And sometimes you may be the most familiar person and less likely less able to get things done than someone who's less familiar, but somehow seems to be in a different role. Um so that's why it takes a whole team.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Yeah, it definitely does. Do you have any insight as to why people with dementia don't like to take showers? Like on the medical side of it?

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Well, uh, you know, um that is a very common um problem. And my own personal opinion is that it's it's it's a very um it's it it's not it's in the more in the primitive areas of the brain about the relationship between living in water and and fear of water. And uh that uh being in an environment that uh being surrounded by water is something that uh people start to feel a fear of.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Well, my mom always had a fear of water, so that would explain a lot for my mom. Uh with that. And and you mentioned before that it takes a village, and I know that's uh one of your is that the gonna be the title of your book, or is that was the title of the one chapter? So let's talk about you have a book coming out soon.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

It's it's a theme in that one chapter. I think the title of my book uh will relate it, relate will relate to gold, G-O-L-D, which is an acronym for for getting older with love and dignity. And uh, you know, when you talk about the healthcare system, uh, does it really help people get older with love and dignity? I would say if you look at the way things are actually done, um, you know, in some ways yes, but in many ways no.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

I would agree with that. Uh and you have a lot of information uh that you had sent

Medicare GUIDE And 24 7 Support

SPEAKER_02 17:26

me. So you said that there's some uh Medicare has some new initiative guide. Where could people find some of that? Because that's very overwhelming too with Medicare.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yeah, so um there's a new uh program uh from Medicare called Guide, G-U-I-D-E. And uh it's not available everywhere, but it uh was created because there was a broad understanding that uh the traditional healthcare system doesn't really provide for the needs of people who have dementia, uh, especially as it gets more severe. And what the guide program, and you need to uh do a little bit of a search for the Medicare guide program, and they will actually tell you sites in which it's offered. It's only offered via traditional Medicare fee for service, which means that if you have a Medicare Advantage plan, uh they won't offer it. But it's being rolled out across the country, and what it does is it does something that the healthcare system doesn't do now. Uh, for instance, one thing it will do for is that 24 hours a day, it will provide uh uh on-call services. So if you have any question, somebody is on the other end of the line who actually knows the person's record and history and has expertise in dementia care, and that's 24-7. And then uh for certain people who qualify, they will actually get some in-home services as well. Oh, so that is an innovative program, yeah, that's being um rolled out across the United States, but it's not uh well developed in many sites yet. Um but it is something that is important. It is only specifically for people with dementia. They also offer sometimes some degree of respite services, and they offer uh training and education for caregivers.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Oh, well, it's just important because I think the more training and education a caregiver gets.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

It's much better than what exists now in general for people with uh dementia and their caregivers.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

That's good to know uh with it because it's so overwhelming.

Care Navigation Versus Care Coordination

SPEAKER_02 20:04

You also mentioned about uh care navigation and care coordination. What is that?

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Yeah, there there's a big difference. So it's pretty traditional uh I I don't know if your mom Patty was ever in the hospital, um Lisa, but it's very very typical that after a person is discharged or in the process of being discharged from a hospital, it's a little bit overwhelming because a lot of things have changed. Um a person uh may become maybe significantly less physically capable, and people will say, How come mom's being discharged from the hospital? She isn't well yet. And the answer is, well, that's not the purpose of an acute care hospital. It's the purpose of an acute care hospital is to just get them out of the woods for now to get them out of their acute illness. And uh when the person is discharged from either a nursing home or from a hospital, a lot of questions is uh, where do we uh go from here? And the typical response is well, this is what you need to do. And they'll give you a list and said, You need to do this, you need to do this, and you need to do this. That is called care navigation. It's widely available, it's done in most hospitals throughout the country. It's one of the things hospitals are rated on is did you tell the family what to do? That's a lot different from helping the family do it. That's true. And that's what care coordination is. And so, care coordination, when you look at it, is not widely available. And that is one of the things that the Medicare Guide program really helps with. It doesn't just tell you what. To do, but helps you get things done. And um it's a little bit overwhelming for most caregivers to say, just get a piece of paper, well, you need to do this, this, this, and this.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

And it was overwhelming.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

And that's a lot different from care coordination, which says, Well, this is what needs to be done. Would you would would it be okay if I help you do it? And I'll help you coordinate this, I'll help you set this up. That's not typically available from hospitals. It is available sometimes from specialized programs. Uh, like, for instance, uh, in some places, like if they have a a memory care uh clinic in a major hospital, uh, sometimes they'll do things like that. It's very similar to what happens when a person has cancer, that they will actually coordinate care. They will make sure that care is seamless. They won't just give you instructions. And that's a big difference between navigation and coordination. And that's a big gap in our healthcare system.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

I would agree with that. Yeah, because they gave me, you know, here and I had to do most, pretty much all of it on my own. Uh, you also talked about uh dementia villages and memory cafes.

Dementia Villages And Memory Cafes

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Uh I know in is it Finland that they have like a dementia village, but you said that there's some places in the United States are starting to possibly do this.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Yeah, it it's a concept that uh is uh was started in uh Holland and uh is has been replicated in very in which people live in very safe environments. Um they they they become eligible when they have dementia. And the safe environments are environments that feel uh very familiar to them, and so it might be something that feels stuck in time. Now it's it's an interesting concept, and they've also had some similar efforts in Japan. Um and in the United States, um, there is one site that is preparing that. I think those are interesting things. I don't think they're, you know, those things are definitely not widespread in the United States. But uh the memory cafes are um also a concept that is somewhat familiar in the United States, and you need to Google search it, but various sites will uh have little social meetings in which people with memory problems get together and uh either have activities or um just talk about uh things from the past.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

So and I have to say sometimes it was quite entertaining listening to uh two or three different dementia patients talk, you know, because like they talked about all kinds of things and you just followed along with them. And sometimes it was funny just listening to them. And I didn't mean I don't mean that in a bad way, but like it was just entertaining, and like you just listened and went along with them, and you I would laugh, you know, uh for it.

Doing Things With Not To

SPEAKER_02 25:17

You also talk about a cut these concepts of doing two, doing four, or doing with, and you recommend doing with. Can you explain that for people?

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Yeah. So doing two is something that the healthcare system, again, uh does too often to um people who are frail and ugly. Doing two means if you have an emergency, call 911. Because doing two means that it's not something that is very friendly or supportive of dignity. Um and it actually imposes something on a on a on a person that the person may not actually want. Um so a very typical example of doing two um is putting a person in a nursing home. So there's a double whammy that you become frail and elderly and you may have memory problems, and then on top of that, you're re you're instead of being supported uh with all those challenges, you're put in a nursing home, which is probably you know one of the reasons that people don't like to be diagnosed as having memory problems because of the fear that this is what's going to be done to them. Now, I can see that yeah to them is worse than for them, which is a lot of times people say, Well, this is good for you. You need to do this, and people say, Well, this is good for you, take a shower, get a bath, this is good for you. And it is good for them, uh, but it's not something that they really necessarily really want to do. And the optimal is when a person is able to do something that says, I'm doing this with you, so that the person feels like this is helpful to me as well. Now, it's it's an ideal goal is doing things with a person, um, but um I think it needs to be thought of. So when it comes to, for instance, like, what are we gonna do with mom as she gets into a more advanced stage, or what are we gonna do with mom when uh when it's just becoming overwhelming in various ways, people have to make decisions and they have to think a little bit. Are we doing this to her, for her, or with her? And you really want as much as possible to do things with her. It's not always possible, but certainly you don't you really want to avoid doing things to a person, which means for your benefit, but not really something they wanted. And uh, you know, as a geriatrician, uh that's a a conceptual framework, but what it actually means in specific situations needs to be tailored. For instance, you were saying that despite your mom having a significant degree of cognitive impairment dementia, she was still able to walk. And so uh an intervention that's tailored to her is a lot different from an intervention that's tailored to somebody who can't walk. And of course, somebody who walks, one of the common, you know, specific issues that comes up is wandering. And how do you manage that?

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Yes, and she did, uh, she got out twice in one night uh when she was living with me in the house, and I was right there when she did it. I mean, she was fast, and luckily I caught her. She only got to like my neighbor's driveway and is like, you know, in the middle of the night, you know, and she just thought she was gonna go visit. And I was like, no, no, no, we we need to come in, but it is really scary when that happens, you know. I I I see how easily.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Yeah. The Alzheimer's Association really uh talks a lot about wandering and it's uh Lisa, you mentioned how scary it is, and it's scary for a reason. The statistics actually are really concerning. Um if a person gets lost for more than 24 hours, you can't find them for 24 hours, there's a good probability um that there's a major injury.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

So if you don't find a person within the first 24 hours, it's definitely a situation uh in which the outcomes become more and more problematic. So um that's why when somebody gets lost, it's important to to to, and there's there's a different chapter in my book about special situations that it's really important to seek out help right away. And um you really want to find a person within the first hour. Um the the it gets more and more difficult to find a person as the time passes.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

I would I would believe that because they they don't know where they are in in that. So, but yeah, that was very, very scary. And I remember calling my dad at 4 30 in the morning, and he came like a few hours later and he changed the lock on my door and and all that. But I I didn't sleep well because I knew what if she got out through the patio door and stuff like that. So it was very scary.

The First Step Toward Support

SPEAKER_02 31:10

So when what do you know when your book will be coming out?

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Uh there's a good you know, it's taken me years, um, but there's a good chance it's gonna come out this year. Okay. Um the the chapter that I shared with you is about um uh what kinds of support exists. And the that chapter, I won uh there were a number of different things I I I uh I delved into. One is that you know it's important for everybody to get support, um, but there's a large number of people who really hesitate to get support, and there's a lot of different reasons for that. Um and then I also talk about the different kinds of support that exists, and there's a lot of evidence that people who reach out for support, the um the outcomes are a lot better. Um, the outcomes are better for the caregiver, and the outcomes actually better for the the patient as well. Um, you know, caregivers who get support do much more better on their own uh emotional, physical, um uh well-being, and uh are able to lead lives that are that still feel a lot more connected. Um and for patients, um, when support is in place, they actually are able to live at home a lot uh significantly longer.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

So and I did you had a lot of good information on in there, you had um uh were people books that you recommended, uh different things they could watch or listen to. You also said there's a best practice caregiving database that people could have access to as well.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Yes, yeah, and and again, it it does need to be tailored. And part of it is that you know, everybody's different. Like some people will readily reach out for help, other people are uh, you know, for a lot of different reasons, maybe cultural, maybe feeling like like this is my responsibility. Some people feel like I can do this better than anybody else. Um people just feel overwhelmed. Uh, some people feel um that um they're that they they're that the help out there is not really that good. So a lot of people approach it in many different ways. And my my my message is always take take a first step, no matter how small it is. If it if you want to just start out with a really small step, that's fine. But uh it's really important that to seek some sort of help, just the same way that for your mom, you know, she was not willing to take that first step of actually getting evaluated. But taking a small step, and then it even if it doesn't lead you immediately to the to the best tailored in intervention, the best tailored support, it gets you started. And um, then you kind of tailor it from them. And you know, a lot of times when people have at the early stages, they mostly want education, and there's a lot of different ways to do that. So things such as your podcasts, there's some um uh websites that just provide information. Alzheimer's Association is wonderful for that. Um there are some sites that provide structured trainings that are either on your own timeline, like you'll you go through different modules about managing this, managing that, managing financial issues, managing behavioral issues, um, uh, managing laundering. Uh, and then there are more structured uh uh courses that say, well, on this day we're gonna talk about this, we'll discuss it on this day. And so you just pick out what works best for you. You know, there's the educational aspect, and then the which your podcast is mostly educational, then there's others that are more about caregiver support, emotional support, you know, support groups and people chat together, and I I belong to some of those. Um uh and support groups are really good. People once they start, they really find uh a sense of being able to talk with people who are in the same situation, similar situations to them. But what I find is that a lot of people hesitate to ever get involved in a support group, and then you know, then other things like you've done, Lisa, is which actually get hands-on support. You know, you you got your mom into a memory care unit and stuff like that. And so there's different kinds of things that you can try. Um, and of course, it because it's very individualized because uh, for instance, there's more resources in urban settings than there are in rural settings. In urban settings, you know, you might actually find programs that are readily available, whereas in rural settings, you might need to just get more help online. Um and then there's always also the financial issues, you know. I mean if you have a significant amount of money, it's gonna help a lot. If you don't have money though, you should not just give up and say, There's no help for me. Um, right. You know, the Alzheimer's Association is very good for that with the helpline with live people that say, you know, how can I get help? Um in every region in the United States, there is an area offices on aging, and they're usually more knowledgeable about what actually exists in specific areas. But it does take that first reaching out, and part of um, you know, what I find is that people are just so overwhelmed with just what they're doing that they really don't have any time to even reach out for that little bit of help that would actually make a difference. Uh, but they're so they're drowning basically in their immediate day-to-day activities that even reaching out, and the analogy I use is you know, somebody's in the water and they're they're they're they're afraid of drowning and they're they're they're you know um moving their hands and their legs, and somebody in a in a in a rescue boat comes out and says, just grab my hand, and and they won't grab the hand because they're just so busy just trying to stay alive that they don't reach that hand. I just I I just really want to make people recognize that that's the that's the critical time they need to reach out when they're when they're at what I call the red light zone, when they're not sleeping well, uh, when they're not eating well, when they feel totally isolated, when they're turning to sleeping pills and and alcohol and drugs and and just uh uh being feeling like totally overwhelmed, that is a big red light sign. That is exactly the time you desperately need to reach out for help. And the help, you know, it's there. I'm not saying it's always easy to find, but it's there. You just have to take that first step and just reach out.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

I would agree with that because all the time we spend on, you know, Instagram or Facebook or any of the other social media sites just doing silly stuff, you could take that five minutes. And even if you start with like the Alzheimer's Association, you know, and or calling the helpline, just little by little, even if you do it for five minutes every couple days, it it helps a lot. And I would agree with you. And even, you know, um support groups sometimes in the memory care facilities, they have a support group there. Um I, you know, I was never really a support group type person, but now I go to a few of them, and it helps just because I know that there's people there that understand what I'm going through. You know, they they understand the feeling. And a lot of times you don't even have to say anything. If you're somebody that doesn't want to participate, you could just sit there and then later on just talk with the person. And it just helps. You don't feel so alone with that.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

So so you you like that's that sounds really great, Lisa. That that's exactly right, you know. Uh and this whole point you make is you don't have to say anything. I think that's a really important point.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

Yeah, you don't. You could just listen and then talk to somebody later. So uh we look forward to your book coming out. So it's uh gold, is that gonna be the name of it?

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Uh well, we're working on it, but the concept of gold, you know, getting older with love and dignity. And uh, you know, we have a long way to go. I I sometimes think about geriatrics as being the mirror image of pediatrics. And uh, you know, when people have Alzheimer's or dementia, it's there's an analogy to to children with special needs and autism and issues like that. And you know, there's a very strong community in the pediatric world. Um, the community for seniors is not nearly as strong, and we need to get there.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Yes, I would agree with that. We really do. So uh so I hope we get to see your book out soon then. At least this show.

Closing And Staying Connected

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Yeah, thank you so much for joining us. So I hope you enjoyed this edition of Patty's Plays. So um, I hope you enjoyed your cup of tea, your cup of coffee, or if you're having that really bad day, your glass of wine. Make sure you leave us a review or subscribe to our YouTube channel, and just so you know that you're not alone in all of this. We're here in this together, and hope you join us for another edition of Patty's Plays.