Episode 72: Purebred Dogs Declining | Bad Marketing and Designer Dogs

Sakurajapanesechin.com
chinoftouche.com
cavaliersofcastlemar.com

In this episode, experienced breeders discuss the history, challenges, and future of purebred dogs, emphasizing the importance of marketing, education, and community engagement to revitalize the industry.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

What is going on, everybody? Welcome to the Tack Box Podcast. We're here recording on a Tuesday, as we always are. I think we're on episode 72 this week, and we have a very special guest with us this week. And we're going to be talking through some AKC stuff, AKC as a brand, us all as breeders, and how purebred dogs have changed over the last you know decade or so, uh, where it's been, where it's at, and where we like to see it go. So before we dive into our topics, I have Dale here with us as always. How's it going, Dale? It's all good.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

It's all good. This is a I've been looking forward to this one.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

So Dale's all good, looking forward to it. So today our guest is Peg Shaw. I'm gonna hand it over to her so she can tell us a little bit about herself uh and why she's on the podcast. So, Peg, if you would, how are you doing? And if you could give us a little bit of a backstory on you and dogs and and where you're at today with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Yeah, I gotta stay right off the bat, Tyson. You're making Dale and I feel old. We've been doing this a long time. I started breeding in 1995, you know, on a larger scale. Back then I've I've had AKC dogs from the very beginning. I didn't show dogs then. I had young kids at home and wasn't able to show right off the bat. So I literally feel like I started at the bottom. I knew in the beginning getting an AKC dog was the thing I needed to do and always went that route. And then later as my kids got older, I was able to start showing. I have miniature Pinterest and Chinese cresteds, and in the last thirty years we've seen a lot of things change in our AKC world. I can remember when I first started and the dogs literally we used to joke that the AKC papers at times were more important than the dogs. It seemed that if you didn't have an AKC dog in your breeding program, you didn't have any business breeding. It was just a huge stigma back then that AKC was the gold label and that's what you needed to have. And I feel like we've lost some of that. And it's very disheartening as a breeder when you work seven, eight generations to build up the healthiest dogs you possibly can that represent the breed standard in such a great way that a lot of people that buy my puppies don't even ask what titles my dogs have. It's irrelevant to them. They just want to know that you know they're getting a nice puppy. It wasn't always that way.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Yeah, I can remember even like when I was uh a young adult, I guess. I mean, and it's like I was looking for a dog and I wanted a pug, you know, so it's like you're trying to find a pug breeder local, you know, and you're looking at, you know, there's talking about AKC paperwork and stuff, and it's like you kind of when you're not big into dogs and you're just looking for a dog, it's like you you understand what AKC is, right? They have the brand recognition, everybody knows the three letters AKC. They might not know what it actually does or what it means, but everybody's heard of AKC when it comes to dogs. And you know, so then it's like, oh, these are AKC registered. And you know, sometimes if you really don't know what you're talking about or or really care, you're just kind of like, I don't care if my puppy has papers or not. But you still understand what AKC is, and it's still a feel-good moment to to hear that the parents are AKC and you could get, you know, limited papers on on your puppy that you're buying. But I kind of like you just said, like, I I on puppies I'm selling, I don't even half my people don't even ask about the AKC or papers. It doesn't even come up in conversation. But so where like I don't I don't want to skip ahead of the line and talk about where we're at with AKC today. Maybe we should start with where was AKC in, you know, as as people that have been breeding for for longer than me. I don't want to make anybody feel old, but when you have 20 years of experience, I also feel like you've been around for you know for a while to see the ebbs and the flows of things. I haven't been around long enough to see ups and downs. I just see current, you know. So where would you guys, you know, this is a question for both of you guys, like where would you say the good times with AKC and purebred dogs were? You know, what did that look like? When was that? What did it look like? And and how was it living you know, going through that as a breeder?

SPEAKER_01 4:23

I can remember a time, sorry, Dale, that finding a major wasn't even I mean, it there was it wasn't even a question. If you entered your breed, you knew there would be majors. And now my gosh, I've gone several years without finding a major in my miniature centers. And I I have to admit, there's been times I get down to needing one major because I haven't been able to get, you know, the last group placement or something. I finally throw some of my young dogs in the ring just to get that last major. And it shouldn't be that way. You know, it's really sad that that's you're your own competition. Not that I'm not putting quality dogs in the ring, but when I first started would have never dreamed that we'd have to make points. It's just a given that we were gonna have twenty-five plus dogs in the ring on any given show. And the numbers have just completely gone away now. And it isn't just my breed, I hear that for multiple people.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

I think that's totally valid. And as a kid, I worked in a pet shop after school, and part of the the the you know, when they would have a puppy, they would have an an AKC puppy with papers. And that was kind of a an idea that that was a purebred dog, you know, and that it had it kind of it had value. It meant something to people. The fact that they had whether they were gonna breed it or show it, that was irrelevant. But they they knew it was a validated, like this is a purebred dog, and it was a little bit of a thing of pride, you know. My my father-in-law, he hunted with a a registered Wymariner, you know, and and just like there was a little there was a little sense of value, and it was kind of like these are American purebred dogs, and the people were very proud of that. I mean, right, and and not saying you couldn't be attached to an unregistered animal or whatever, but you people, if you were gonna open your your wallet and you were gonna pay money for it, you would it would have to be something of value, whether it was a whether it was a thoroughbred horse or a a purebred uh purebred cow or whatever, it was like it was it had the value that was sent with that. And then the sh the idea of showing, it kind of came into the uh because the shows not near as many shows as there are now. Nowhere near as many shows. I mean, not in uh the the number of shows has exploded, which part of the reason I believe our entries have gone down. Because when you have when you have that many shows, and like when we would go to a show, we would go to like Saturday and Sunday, that's show. You know, I mean you would leave Friday after you got out of school or work or whatever, and then you go to the show and drive home Sunday night, and Monday morning you were back to the real world. Now there is no real world. They're just like it's like the shows start. What day does our national start this year, Tyson? Is that like Tuesday? Wednesday. Wednesday. So you're so you're leaving on I mean, never heard of such a thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

It was like You're showing Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday if you're doing the adjoining toy club with the national. So you're getting in Tuesday and you're there through Sunday. That's a long time.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Yeah, no, no such thing, no such animal. I mean, those so you would go mostly over the weekend a couple of times a year. There might be a three-day weekend or craziness. There'd be four shows in a row. That was a lot. And so since there was it wasn't as diluted out, those shows were super high competition. Like I've said multiple times, we showed for two years and never won a point because there were just people that were really good, and we were our dogs weren't that good, and we didn't know what we were doing, and there was no there, you know, that was you were just right in there in the thick of it. But somewhere along the way, you know, I think as though we've kind of lost our cool, and we've lost the pride that goes into our purebred dogs. And I think that maybe that now people are right like going, it's kind of like a refute or a refuteation of the whole idea of purebred. It's like, look, we're gonna get a mixed breed. We're gonna not gonna even call it a mixed breed, it's a designer, and you know, and all of that kind of stuff. It's kind of like I was like a purebred dog. It's like you might as well be wearing something all covered in label branding or whatever, like I mean, who are you, right? You know, your your dog's a purebred, and you show it, you know, which is kind of almost makes it sound like you're one of the dance moms and you put your kids in pageants or something, you know, it's like that kind of a thing. I think somewhere along the way, we lost our edge on that.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

You know, I was walking into a dog show about three weeks ago, six o'clock in the morning. It was already 95 degrees out, and just wanted to get the dogs into air condition before, you know, they're starting to get too hot. As I was pushing my trolley up the hill to the dog show, I was like, How did we get to this place in our sport where all of these people are here and they're passionate and they're all loving and taking care of their dogs so faithfully, did we get to the point where the general public feels better about buying a dog with no written health guarantee, no vaccination record, no history of parents, no lifetime breeder support, but they feel better about that purchase because they rescued it or it needed a home, it needed to be re-homed. How did we get to that? I just it boggles my mind that how did we let the message get lost that a breeder operating healthy dogs should be what we strive for.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

I think we dropped the ball on marketing, really. Like, I I think when you when you look at the big picture and the and the things that you're listening, I was talking to about this yesterday. We were delivering a puppy last night, and on the way home we were talking about this topic, and it's like what a breeders have over, you know, you you hear the shop, don't adopt, or adopt, don't shop, you know. You hear those things, and it's like, okay, so there's a slogan that's caught on that's marketing. The designer dogs, I mean, they're mutts. They're they're mutts, that's what they are. But they came up with a really good marketing plan. They call them designer, who everybody that hears the word designer thinks Louis Vuitton, designer handbags, designer clothes, they think it's something super prestigious. They don't care what comes behind it, they just think that it's it's something good because we're calling them designer dogs. And we want to get behind this slogan of adopt, don't shop. And we want, okay, you know, so one of the things that I feel like as purebred dog breeders, or maybe just breeders in general, I'd say probably purebred dog breeders, but and and this is where you know we could get some help from AKC, I would, I would think, but would be our our marketing of what is the benefit of a purebred dog? What is the benefit of buying from a purebred dog breeder? And like you mentioned, Peg, yeah, it's like, well, you're gonna have if you go adopt a dog from a the pound, like what happens in a week if something happens with that dog? Nothing. You're SOL on your own. You buy a dog from a breeder, and it's like in 10 years something's going on. We're there for you. We got your back, or you have, you know, you're 70 years old and you buy a dog from us, and at 75 you have a heart attack, can't take care of this dog anymore. Where's it going? Back to the breeder. We're always gonna take a dog back. So there's so many of that aspect.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

We're there for the trivial little questions, we're there. And you know, I can remember a time when you were almost looked down upon if you had, you know, advertising your puppies. Like good breeders don't have to advertise. Yes, we do. We have to do it louder and more proud now than we've ever had to. And I'm trying to have the biggest presence I can on social media as a breeder to be proud to be a breeder. And I'm constantly trying to share that message that being a breeder is something to be proud of with you know, the right dog, which you're breeding the healthy dog. But there was a time frame that people just put their head in the sand and AKC let us do it, and the other people marketed smarter and harder than we did, and we got passed by. We haven't been able to reclaim that.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Well, I think Tyson made a really valid point with all of these catchphrases, because and and whenever you have what is established in there, it's a big target and it's easy to take shots at it because it's too big to fail. And so we can just I I remember that, you know, like when General Mortors went bankrupt or everything something's too big, too mighty to fall fall. And I think that somewhere when breeders start getting called greeters, when when breeders started getting called puppy mills, when and all of this stuff, when all of these slurs were just being thrown at us, thrown at us, and we were kind of like we don't have to dignify ourselves with that response. You know, we're gonna we're gonna try and go high. And and they're and while they're just taking shot after shot after shot, and every time a breeder, any mistake happened, any anything, and it was like, oh my god, it was a breeder, and you know, and we just got held to such a standard of like kind of like the other day, uh Linda Blair, but who is the patron say of rescue in California, love it, that's very nice. She was three years delinquent on her kennel license. The municipality contacted her 24 times to see about her inspection. They finally got served her with a warrant and went in there, and she was 140 dogs over her kennel license. Now, if that had been a breeder, you'd have been hauled out and shot. That would have been you would have that would have you've been and if you go on and read the stories, uh and I'm pro-rescue. If they have anybody has a hate mail, send it to Tyson. But she broke every rule. And and they're like, oh, well, she they didn't take her dogs. Like, where are they going to take 200 dogs? There's not like a special spot. Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's not a special spot where they're gonna go send Sally over to pick up those 200 large breed dogs to go over there. There they have to work with these people to try to make it work to get them into compliance because they don't have the infrastructure to even begin to take that. And that's why if you have a breeding license, they're gonna inspect you. You have to carry insurance. There, if the larger your number, the more your license, the more often they're gonna check up on you because they don't want that situation to get out of control. And if you blow blew them off for three years and 24 contacts, they would have you handcuffed and in the back of a car.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

Yeah, but the you uh it's it's a different, it's a different whole criteria. It's a double standard, if you will. And so we're we're held to a whole different standard, and I think as though, and we're always apologizing for it too. Kind of like, well, yeah, but we rescue. It's like going, hmm, I don't know a single breeder that doesn't take their dogs back, who doesn't, who doesn't won't go help somebody with their dogs, or won't, won't help get a dog to or from rescue or foster a dog. I don't know any of them. They all the breeders are the softest hearted bunch of people in the in the bunch, you know. But yet, since they're deliberately breeding a purposefully bred dog, they're automatically in that box.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

I think some of it, you know, we have to. I mean, this is gonna be loaded. There's a lot of topics about it because I do think we need AKC's help on things. I also think as as breeders, sometimes when you get super tenured in something, you tend to only remain in your little circle. So maybe we're only talking to other breeders and we're talking to other dog people because that's what we're into, and we all are kind of experiencing this the same thing, but are we going outside of our circles and talking to people? And one of the things having just moved that we're starting to experience right now, you know, Mayor that just went back to work and some of the stories she's coming home with, you know, she's like, Yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself because you're the new person. It's like, oh yeah, we moved down to Oklahoma because we're gonna do this, and we show dogs, and they're like, Oh, you mean on like at Thanksgiving? You know, so many people are uneducated and they think that the dog show is only Thanksgiving. They think that's the national dog show, that's what it is. They coincide AKC with the dog show at Thanksgiving, and that's all the further they know, you know. So it's like, I think there's a part where we also as breeders need to get loud and proud out there about purebred dogs and educating the public on not only dog showing, but also the benefits of a purebred dog. Like it kind of goes back to the marketing side, like the doodle people, they crushed it. You know, like they got no shame in their game and they crushed it. They nailed the marketing aspect of it and it caught on, you know, and we kind of have to do that too. But I also think there is an aspect that you know, we could get some help from AKC. I think, you know, there's a place to sell purebred dogs. AKC obviously wants people to register their dogs, they make money off of that. There are a registry. So, you know, getting our puppy buyers, purebred dog puppies that go out, obviously AKC wants them registered. So, like, in what what ways do you guys know or that have you seen in the past that maybe we're not doing now, or what ideas do you have though something that it's like we could get out there more, or we could have we could benefit more from something being better. I know we we've kind of mentioned AKC marketplace a little bit. Like, what are your experiences with that?

SPEAKER_01 19:03

You know, a little bit off topic, but I would love just once to see a commercial from AKC saying, be responsible, buy from an AKC breeder who wants you to neuter and spay your pet. We want you to have a healthy pet. We don't want to just sell show dogs, we want to sell you a healthy companion. We just don't have enough public outreach anymore, I feel like it's just social media and that's about our circle. We could really use AKC's help, but like you said, in the marketplace, that was such a great marketing tool, and now it's just falling by the wayside and it's sad because that would be a place it should be safer for the consumer to find a dog without being scammed.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

But the branding has to stay we have to go into the now and we have to look as as things have changed because times change, things change. And I mean, there when I started in dogs, there wasn't such a thing as a limited registration. You bought a dog, it had papers. And if you want to breed it, you bred it. And if you didn't want to breed it, you and so but there was no competition. So then all of a sudden we're like, why don't we protect our market? And yeah, that's right, it's more ethical too. So we're gonna go ahead and limit it papers. So we took a whole set of potential new breeders out, and and and we and we and we branded that as being ethical. And so, and and honestly, you know, I mean, it we protected our market. We shape we cut a bunch of people out. If they wanted to buy a pure red registered dog on an open paper, they had to import it or they had to get it some you know some way backdoor. So, so we had that right off the top. So we cut it, we kind of cut off our stuff. And then I don't think we really stayed in the now, where we had so many breeders, and it was kind of like when you if uh if like going to church and they're bilking the congregation for money, and there's like we're gonna pass the plate again. Well, the breeders, the breeders have the the breeders have paid at the plate. I mean, there's no more. There's no more, there's no more extra money because we they have paid and they've paid and they paid, and the idea of them to pay some more now is it's a little bit, we've got to throw a little bit bigger net, you know, and get some other people's money here too, and and make these people want these registered dogs because they are purposely bred, you know, with for health and temperament and coat types and sizes and all these traits that can tailor them to your lifestyle. We have a great product, but we do a kind of a terrible job of of uh of marketing it. And uh and so we lose out on all that. And then we have a bunch of really small brands. Breeders who don't have websites, who don't have like Facebook page, and so they need to go into the Kennel Club and they need to have either a marketplace or they they need somewhere to be able to sell their puppies to be able to go, hey, I have these great dogs. And right now that's that we're kind of really dropping the ball on that, too. We're not helping those smaller breeders. If you have a like, yeah, you know, we have a long presence on on the net. We come up on our good on Google searches organically, you know, but so we're gonna we don't have a hard time. But I can't imagine how new people could even begin to get established how long that would take. And it's it's kind of so much work and so much money. If you can't make the sales and if you can't recoup some of what you're putting into it, there's not a lot to hold, you know. Because I uh we were had a we had a breeder meeting on a breeder advisory board with the American Kennel Club, and uh and I would say, give me one thing, give me one reason to sell to them that is that's relevant to these people. Just one thing. Because they don't care about the pedigree, they don't care about the certificate. They're you know, they're they're not gonna breed it, and they're they're not, you know, they don't care. So what uh you know, tell I mean, you know, pet health insurance, microchipping, all of these things this could be a thing where you know where we could sell these type of aspects, like you can do the you know, these are things that we can do, but AKC needs to because right now they're just about the dog show. And I mean, a lot of that, I mean, it's a great registry and they do a ton. They do more than any other any other registry in the world, but I think they have I don't think they're in touch with what's selling, because I at the advisory board someone said, Well, do you have a waiting list? And I'm like, who has a waiting list? That went out with popcorn sea pop popcorn ceilings waiting lists, same time they were out, right? You know, it's called swipe right. You know, it's like if you don't have it, the next one will.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

The funny thing is, a lot of people still use waiting.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yeah. It's funny because it's like even talking to some breeders that I know, they're just like, oh yeah, I got people lying like waiting to buy puppies. And I'm like, I bet when you have puppies, you won't have people waiting to buy puppies because we don't do that in 2026. If you don't have one, I'm going to the next breeder and I'm gonna ask them. And if they don't have one, I'm gonna go to the next breeder and I'm gonna ask them. But I do still think this ties so much into just marketing in general. And again, I'm gonna throw out the new person card because I've only been in purebred dogs for a couple years now. And before I got into purebred dogs, my everything I heard, everything I knew, my mindset was a hundred percent that mixed breed dogs are healthier than purebred dogs. And so it like that's the mindset of people that don't know purebred dogs. That's the narrative that is being pushed out there of why you want a mixed-breed dog. You know, purebred dogs aren't as healthy, they have health problems, and you want a mixed breed because they're sturdier and stable and healthier. And I I think I'm I mean, I'm not stupid and I'm not completely disengaged. And if that's the mindset that I had before I really learned about purebred dogs, I think that's probably the mindset that a lot of people have, and really need to probably figure out a way to actually market purebred dogs and the benefits of a purebred dog. Because, you know, we can talk AKC, the registry, and we can talk about, yeah, we microchip our dogs. Well, so does the pound, you know, or we do, you know, this or that. And it's like, but what does a purebred dog offer that, and what do we offer as purebred dog breeders that mixed breed dogs don't offer, or that mixed breed dog breeders don't or can't offer? You know, it's like that's kind of where we really have to figure out how we can get loud and proud about that if we want purebred dogs in general to catch mainstream again. Maybe we just need to get an influencer to get a purebred dog and glamour about purebred dogs.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

If you look back in 1980, I think is when the tide started to turn, Ferris Hilton started toting around this little dog to fit in her designer purse, which is why they were called designer dogs. Who knew that that little mix break dog wasn't gonna change our world, but it certainly did. But her message in marketing marketing took off and we haven't kept up with the marketing at all.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

You're exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

I don't know how we get the horses back in the barn.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

Well, what we were in Mexico for the dog show, and and what what I thought was really interesting was that right next to the where the to the venue is, the Kennel Club owned a veterinary hospital, a teaching hospital. And they had uh 20 some vets and another 20-some students there, and part of their they the students' vets came over and worked the show. Nice. And so those people came out and they weren't getting a P to scholarship, they weren't coming into animal rights. They these people come out, they saw what a purebred dog was, they saw the value in that, they understood breeding. And I'm thinking each of those vets, if they practice for 40 years, think of the how the influence that they're gonna have, that they can bring, the knowledge that that they can that they bring out there, and that's that's kind of huge. So I think that we do need to target our vets and our our the vet students, and so I mean we need to be supportive because the whole thing about purebred dogs, breeding. Breeding, you have to have a vet. You know, so having that breeding vet is priceless. And then I think the fact that we have consistency in our dogs. I mean, so if you want this type of dog with this temperament, this size, this coat, all of this, you know, we're the we're the mixed breed dogs, the hybrids have a degree of consistency. The first, the F1s, there, I mean, because it's a hybrid, it's kind of like a mule, right? But you there's nowhere to go beyond that breeding-wise, you know, and keep any kind of consistency. Uh, you know, and um but I think we have, you know, I think we need to kind of get off of our little bit of our pedestal and start going back to the public and the people who love our these dogs, who love a beautiful Chinese crested, who thinks that Gypsy Rose Lee is and all of the the burlesque dancers, super cool, and kind of like talk about some of the history and some of the things that made these breeds and why we want to preserve them, and why if you live in an apartment, maybe you shouldn't get a husky. Maybe that's not the dog for you. And this is why. This would be the dog for you. You can have a Japanese chin, you know, and you, I mean, we can we can do so much with that towards the public, and I think we're missing out on that because we're kind of get so caught up in in showing our dogs and ribbons and and and then and we're making ourselves more and more not relatable to the public.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Right. A lot of the public doesn't know that we're willing, that we want to put our dogs in a companion home. Think that we only want them to go into show homes. It's like, no, I want them in a great pet home. I want my dogs to live out their lives in a great pet home. They don't all need to be show dogs, and that's a big misconception with the public.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

Absolutely. And and you know, and the people and I think as though that just the fact that we can tell them exactly what they're getting. You know, right, you know, these are the traits. You know, I mean here here is your your match.com profile. If this works for you, this is what uh we got. And uh and I think we we are kind of missing out on that. But I think that we're kind of so caught up in our and I and I love dog shows. I'm a dog show junkie. I I I live and breed dog shows. I love breeding better animals and stuff, but but I think as though in order to do that, you have to first you have you have to go ahead and be, you know, I think that people, you know, it's like the idea of finding people that want your breed, relating to them, what they're looking for, you know, and building the interest in your breed, I think is a is kind of huge. And maybe, maybe that pet person will decide, my like next dog, I might want to show it, you know, maybe want to do something with it, you know. And I think that that's that's kind of key if you we can bring people in, you know, because I don't see a lot of bringing people in right now. I don't think I don't think we're looking for more competition at the dog shows. I don't think we're looking for more uh competition to sell our puppies. I think we're a little bit of a closed group and we're not looking to get new people in.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Yeah. One avenue I'm very passionate about, and it's so obtainable for my puppy buyers if their kids are you know early teenage years, is 4-H. It's like that is such a great experience for young kids and it doesn't cost a lot. So I really try to encourage them like have a 4-H project. You don't need to show, you know, AKC, just enjoy 4-H and see if you liked it and go from there. So a lot of my families go that route.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

It's wonderful. That's a great, that's a good, it's such a I think it's such a wholesome thing for kids to learn how to take care of something and care for something other than themselves and have responsibility, and they can do activities if they want to, and they can all of it, every part of a pet is such is a such a life lesson, even to the point of letting the pet go at the end of its life. Life lesson that everybody gets to face sooner or later. So these are all things that we can share with people and and bringing them in to what we do. And the activities or no activities, just loving on them, you know. I mean, it's like it's like I I love uh, you know, it's like we have a we got a ragdoll cat for Jane got one for Christmas. And uh and you know, we have we have farm cats and stuff, which are great, but we wanted some very specific things because like I'm somewhat allergic, I didn't, you know, I wanted this temperament, I wanted this, uh, you know, and uh and so that was what we you know we did the that we did the match.com. This is what we want, this is what we need. And you know, so now it it's been an amazing fit for our home, you know, and I think that being that, you know, even though we're not gonna breed her, we're not gonna show her, but you we got the traits that we were wanting for our first you know, indoor cat after f uh 40 years of marriage, you know. That's some it's just some it's something we have this great selling point, and I think we miss out using it.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

I know when the last summer that we had Westminster in May, you know, post-code, I think it's 2023 is last year that we had it in May. We just took the city, you know, we were out and about on the up and down buses and took the dogs with us, you know, our little show purses, and just saw the city and so many people were just staring at our dogs, like, what are those? Because when we were at Central Park, it was so dishearten. Here we are at the home office of AKC, and I bet you for every 30 dogs I saw, they were mixed breeds, I'd see one purebred, and even then it wasn't quite quality purebred. It's like, how in the home city of AKC do we not have purebreds just everywhere? And I had so many people coming up and saying, talk to me about your dog, what kind of dog is this? And I'm like, why, you know, why is this even why haven't they heard of our dogs? Why haven't we haven't gotten the word out enough? And it was just really a surprise to me to see so many mixed-screen dogs in New York City where it should have been the purebred capital, really.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Soul Korea. We were we went, we were there for a dog show. Every I went running three mornings in a row, every dog I saw, lots of dogs, all purebred. Every one of them was purebred, every one of them was beautifully groomed. I mean, and people were out there with their poodles, their shibas, their maltese, all these beautiful little purebred dogs. And and when I was at Palm Springs, judging, three days about going out running on the trail, no purebreds, right? Double digit numbers of doodles. And and I'm thinking to myself, we are, like I say, we're not promoting what we do. And I think that people, especially Tyson's generation, we can blame it a little bit on them. They want a cause. They want something that's like, I want to use a paper straw to save a sea turtle. You know, I there has to be a bigger reason. It's like they want to feel like they're supporting something good. And and so I think that we somehow with the purebred dogs, we stopped being something good and we kind of became somewhere like the fur trade or something like that. Yeah, big tobacco. It was we weren't fund support anymore. And I think that the rescue, Muttland, they got they, I mean, they got to rescue them, they got to unconditional love, and they're gonna save, and they're gonna this and they're gonna that, and it's not pretentious, and it's you know, all that. And I think that they kind of they gotta feel good. They got a paper, they got a paper straw out of this deal. And and I think that that has been a groundswell of feeling good about this, and we've kind of lost it's kind of like, hey, you know, we're preserving heritage, we're preserving breeds that's for just for people specific reasons. These dogs are purposely bred for certain reasons, and and we're kind of we're kind of lost that, you know. And we're gonna get those bloodlines back.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

They're gone, they're gone. So yeah, preserving them is we have to do that for our future for the dogs.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

So so like you mentioned like Korea and everything you saw out there was purebred. Like, okay, so let's dig deeper into that. Like, why is that? Is there certain laws over there comparative to here? Like street dogs. No straits. Okay. None. So what are they doing to make that happen?

SPEAKER_03 37:08

People are the the dogs that are that would be loose, people are held accountable. So there aren't unaccountable dogs producing unaccountable puppies that are being then you know dumped into rescues and shelters and all of that. And we don't have to have the star from the exorcist fill her home with 200 pit bulls from 1973. You know, I I mean we have we have there is accountability, and these people are they own these dogs, they're responsible for these dogs, they're gonna take care of these dogs, and they're and I think that here we have so much, and we're just kind of going, oh, there's no way we can ask these people to be accountable, spade, put them in a fence. I mean, loose dogs are just that's what loose dogs, you know, feral dogs, street dogs, you know, the are you know, the dogs are not really owned by anybody or no one's claiming them. You know, that's what's filling the shelters, and they're filling our homes, and people are taking them because they're being guilted and shamed into them. Like I wanted a Chinese crest hit, but I'm going to take a Pitbull Shepherd cross instead.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

You know, it's like Well, that's part of it too, is we almost shame people for like if somebody wants to go spend $2,000 on a purebred dog, they almost feel bad because like, well, I should be adopting a dog from the Humane Society instead of buying this dog for $2,000, you know, and then you almost like, yeah, they feel filled with shame that they bought this dog or they don't buy the dog because they feel shame. It's like, well, I guess I should just go adopt one from the Humane Society.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

And then they wind up paying thousands and thousands in pet bills, but that's the honorable thing to do. And yeah, our marketing has not kept up with our lives right now.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Well, we haven't done a very good job promoting it. We haven't pro we haven't done a very good job promoting our history and the purpose of these dogs. And even like if you're into hunting, what kind of hunting? Are you into water retrieving? Are you usually into, you know, are you want you want a retriever? Do you want a setter? Do you want a pointer? You know, what you're needing a spaniel with this very specified types of hunting for each of these breeds. You know, you're wanting a service dog, what do you want? You know, this kind of stuff. I mean, we don't do that. We don't pr we don't sell ourselves and and partially because we're too busy taking selfies with ribbons at the dog show, and you know, that our friends all make f front of us, like, did you see that? You know, uh, you know, I mean, but this is we're not doing anything to like sell people on the attributes of our breed. And and I think that the dog shows aren't welcoming to people. On the idea of come meet our breeds, come talk to the breeders, you know, you know, this is actual being at a dog show as a spectator, you almost feel like you're in the way.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

You get treated like in the way, because there's not like a specific, like a lot of them, there's not spots. So it's like you're specifically supposed to be here to where you can go look at dogs, or you're specifically supposed to sit here to watch. It's just like everybody's walking everywhere, all around the place, you can walk in between rings, and then you get in the ways of people and trolleys coming through. It's like as a spectator, you feel in the way, and you kind of are made to feel that way. Because I mean, even us as exhibitors, you know, when we it's time to get to the ring, it's like, get out the way. I gotta be at the ring, and my dog needs to be ready, and this and that, and this and that, and we want to put on the best show that we have, and you know, we want to make sure, you know, if it's hot, it's like we pulled our dog out of the fan area to bring him to the ring so we can jump jump in the ring, we want to get in the ring, get out of the ring, get back to get the dog cooled down, you know, that type of stuff. So it's like, yeah, it's not really made to invite spectators in and to make them feel super welcome. And as a spectator, when like at a local show as a spectator, you know, and think about this. Like, if I'm a spectator and I watch Westminster or I watch the dog show on Thanksgiving, there's an announcer telling you what's going on. This is the Japanese chin, it's a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah dog, you know, and they're they're talking about it. You go to a normal dog show, there's five, six, twelve, fifteen rings going on at one time with no announcements going on at all. As a spectator that's newish and has zero clue what the heck is going on, it is the most confusing thing in the world, and you're just like, I have no clue what's going on, so you leave. Because it's like there's no as a spectator, no organization of what's going on. Where do I find where these dogs are gonna be that I want to see? You know, all the things.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

And I think that's very super valid. Yeah, yeah, very true. I know for the last three years I've made a point to call the television station and say, hey, we're having our local dog show. We'd like you to come out and film some of the dog show. We would like to invite the public out. Three years in a row, the local station hasn't shown up. But yet they're on TV with rescues all the time featuring their pet of the week. And it's like they're saving sea turtles. We want to see you at our show. We're inviting you. Please tell the public we're having a show. And our local newspapers have come out and covered it in the newspaper, but we can't get the television station to come out. Well, but I think we need what they want to cover.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

I think we need to tool our story differently. And I think we need to like we're gonna bring in, we're gonna bring in kids, we're gonna have, we're gonna have service dogs, we're gonna, we're gonna have police dogs, we're gonna have hunting dogs, we're gonna have all these things. My one of my dear friends, Nancy Millot, does the Longview Marshall count. She is tireless in in her community involvement stuff. And she gets the Boy Scouts to come out and do their color guard, and she does all of these things, these community things. And she like, come on in, we're gonna do this and this, we're gonna have booths and vendors and food and this and that. I mean, you know, we're gonna brand a pig, you know, we're gonna whatever. We're gonna we're having a whole ho-down. And I think that that sometimes we we have these opportunities with these shows to have people come and watch them. And although, like we were talking before the podcast started, the how we have so many things going on now with like 14 groups and and multiple bests, multiple reserve bests, and B PUP and all this that we're having to. cut some of our group judging shorter and all. I think we need to kind of be able to help target people. If you want to see this breed, this is when they're going to be shown. This is where you might could be able to see them. And if you if you have questions and you'd like to see this, we we can we help direct you to something so we can kind of generate a little bit of interest in it. Because right now they are interested in the message of you know the the Labradodeodles that were dumped on the road. That's a that's a heart heart moment there. We're not very sympathetic. We don't we that we look like you know like I say we're we're a bunch of jerks that have fancy dogs. You know we're we're not relatable and likable. And we're not very we don't really help the community very much and we're not you know interested in that.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

And you can take that and go take that and it's like how can we how can we take purebred dogs and and involve that and you said something that kind of is like I haven't really thought a ton about and a lot of people probably haven't either but it's like you know you can pull people's heartstrings and show benefits of purebred dogs and maybe something we could actually get to a dog show you know for an exhibit but police dogs you know like a lot of times they're purebred German shepherds that are police dogs. You know it's like if we could have the the local law enforcement bring their dog in and do a meet and greet and we can kind of advertise it and we're talking about you know their bomb their their their sniffing capabilities and how they can sniff out drugs and bomb materials and things like that. And that's why the the police like we got to get out and advertise and the benefits and even with the hunting dogs too like all these hunting places any gun manufacturers all these places that do anything to do with hunting tree stands you know anything to do with hunting they should be promoting the heck out of these purebred dogs that people use for hunting because it's all you know it all goes around and and you know firehouse dogs you know back in the day that was all Dalmatians is what you saw was the fire truck dog you know it was how people knew the Dalmatian other than the movie but you know outside of that it was the Dalmatian was the fire truck dog. You know and so it's like how do we get back to that and how can we utilize that to even be with some of the general public you know with these I mean canine units are stronger than ever at this point. Every police station has a canine unit now. It's not something super abnormal like it was 10 years ago where it's like you might have one canine in a town now it's like every precinct has a canine unit. You see it on vehicles and all the things so you know and then even like service dogs things like that how are we utilizing that type of situation to promote purebred dogs?

SPEAKER_03 46:57

These are all the things that we're just not getting out there. And the things that make these dogs so fantastic and so tailor made to these specific situations and even something that you you mentioned about how the mixed breed dogs were healthier and how that is such a such a not true statement because the thing with purebred dogs yes they're gonna have certain traits that they may be more prone to but we know what they are. So we can breed away from them. You know I mean when you have when you mixed breed dogs you don't know what they are it can be anything you know but like if you have a certain breed and you like these are the strengths these are the areas we these are the things we're gonna breeders are going to work away from and we're gonna tell you how to to minimize these because we know what they are knowledge is power. It's it's the whole idea of health testing if we didn't you know if we didn't know that human beings can be prone to colon cancer well then why would they have come up with doing a colonoscopy not just for fun you know I mean because we know we can find this and we can we can make we can work around this and that's something that purebred dogs has to offer on health aspects it's like they have documentable health history we have DNA profiling and every year AKC does a lot to promote healthier better bred dogs and how and and bringing this information out I know that the cavaliers that we had 40 years ago nowhere near as healthy as the dogs we have now. Right. Not even close because and it's just like watching you know decades of these dogs getting stronger better stronger better stronger better. And I I I think as though we we kind of hide our light under a bush a little bit you know well and there's a lot of aspects too when people are looking at doodles and they're just like oh I want this golden doodle and it's like what part of golden is it and what part of doodle is it?

SPEAKER_00 49:08

You never really know because at one point it was a golden retriever mixed with a poodle and it was a they birthed golden doodles first generation golden doodles cool like you could get golden retriever aspects you could get poodle aspects you might get some of both who knows but what happens now when you breed that golden doodle to another poodle or to another golden doodle like you're just mudding the water so much at that point like you don't even know you never know what you're gonna get in there. So you could buy a golden doodle or this doodle and it's like you don't even know how much golden is in that thing at this point you know because this could be a 10 generation golden doodle that has zero golden retriever traits to it or zero poodle traits to it because it's been bred so many different ways as a golden doodle it's like there there's nothing there as to where a purebred dog it's like you're getting a purebred dog every single day you breed a purebred dog together every time.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

It's just you can everything about it.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

You know and so some of these things I don't know how relevant they are to this purebred dog talk. I don't know but they they pop into my head and they don't make sense and it's like when you think about like cattle and other animals and maybe maybe because they're not the same type of pets I don't know but it's like you don't you don't you don't ever talk about people like oh I want a mixed breed cow you know it's like they want Angus they want this and when you you know even advertising for it like when you go to a steakhouse I mean Dale this probably isn't relevant to you but it's like they're always talking 100% pure Angus beef you know and like that's what everybody wants. They don't want this mixed breed beef in their steak you know so it's like in if marketed you know like in the cattle industry I mean that's huge in cow breeding you know cattle breeding I like I know somebody that breeds cattle and like not for food you know it's like and it's you're not mixing a Herford with an Angus like you're not doing mixed breed cattle. Like you're doing purebred you're breeding for specific traits and that's a big booming business. You know and is it is it different because these are our house pets you know and a cow is like not I don't know but it's just and and I think horses are probably kind of the same way and a lot of animals out there are the same way 100% I think I think you're exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

Give me a turtle mixed with a beaver you know I want a mixed breed turtle you know the I think the whole idea though of the value of pure breads with like my grandfather's Holstein dairy farm you know those are you know and they had documentable milk production and quality I mean as all of these stuff they wouldn't you know they wouldn't go stake Ruth Chris isn't gonna go hey yeah we have a bunch of scrub cattle you know as you know we just you know they're they're just yeah no I mean because there's quality and consistent traits and we've lost that to because of of that whole rescue pet you in the in the pet in the the pet the rescue industry is a billion billion dollar industry tons of money corporate money money being raised taxes not being paid there is like it is a lot of money then people are making a lot of money and are wielding a lot of power with this and and you know taking shots at the breeders because we're the we're you know we're the we're the easy target in the room but I mean it is a huge huge uh beast that it needs to be fed and so I mean I think that retail rescue is a little little term that they need to you know that we can hang right back onto them you know not that it's a them or us but a little bit of a way they're not offering what we are you know you know that they're not they're not I mean that's fine and if somebody one wants to do that go for it. You know I mean I if you if you don't care if your puppy is a you know a hot mess and you can work it through and this'll work knock your socks off. You know but I I don't think uh we're all we're kind of afraid to say it we're afraid that we're gonna that they're gonna live in death and we're gonna almost being ashamed being made to be ashamed to be purebred greeters and we need to start being proud. Absolutely there's no shame in our game and and hey once you turn sixty a life sentence isn't a big threat. It's like yeah who cares? Right. Say something bad about me. Yeah I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

Yeah I mean I guess there's a one later like yeah life sentences don't bother me.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

Yeah but I think that that's something that we need to take back you know take back and I do think that we need Aunt Casey's help.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

You know I will give Jason Hoke all the credit in the world during Westminster television. He does such a great job relaying the breeds and talking to the public during the television you know television part of the Westminster Jason does a great job.

SPEAKER_03 54:18

We need that throughout the year not just in but but he also he has he is a business owner owns a restaurant and all that he knows how to reach out to the public he knows how to bring them in to make them feel welcome and and he brings that aspect to to that dog show makes it seem like come on in all years. We need more of that we need we need a lot more of that we need to start gearing our shows more towards the public we need to gear our shows more to the breeders helping our breeders you know get out that they have puppies and that you know that this and this and I mean and and and not be you know because because we haven't been and look where we're at exactly so if you like where you're at then just keep on doing what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

Yeah yeah you know if you just if you think this whole thing like as we're sitting here on this podcast and all the listeners are going to love this I just solved this whole problem. Yeah like that you want people to get involved start gambling on the dog shows who's gonna win because now all of a sudden people can put money on it and win money on it. Like think about horses and horse racing you know I was like everybody's gambling on the Kentucky Derby and all these things and that keeps the machine flow. Maybe we just need to start gambling on the national dog show.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

I don't know you know like put it in Vegas let's see second old sport we can hang with the Kentucky Derby.

SPEAKER_00 55:47

Yeah we're gonna get people you know like betting on dogs and now all of a sudden they're invested and they care so they're gonna start caring about these breeds and breeders are going to need to keep breeding dogs because all these rich people are going to want to buy these fancy dogs to put into a dog show and support a handler because they want to go win the dog show and everybody's gonna gamble on it. We just solved it just like that.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

Nailed it yeah I I I really I really honestly believe that if we could got some of our of the stuff about our you know because like Jane was working on our breed presentation for the national and she's talking about with the chin and how they were originally bred on on the seven chakras of the Buddha and how the child these qualities that the that they felt were the perfect man were embodied in this breed and all I mean centuries old thing. I mean it's fascinating stuff. And uh and you know it's like I think as though that whole idea of the history and the story of these dogs is something that is kind of wasted in a way and kind of like I think that people could find that to be pretty cool and I had you know had a little flashback when uh I was judging the the other day and I put up this beautiful red bone coon hound for a reserve best and show she's so pretty and I thought as a kid watching that movie where the red fern grows and I mean and it's like and reading that standard and seeing that dog and going wow you know you kind of have it's like look at this you know and I mean I know it's kind of nerdy but it's like but these these breeds have such a part of Americana and the story of of people and what they were for and all that. I think that it's I think we're doing them a disservice by you know I mean we're not even in the same league as the as doodles are us. That's not us you know we we have a we have a rich history we have a purpose we have all of this stuff about you know like I always say it all the time we we make so little in our country and we have these beautiful American purebred dogs and it sure would be a shame if we politically corrected ourselves out of out of their existence for them because it was no longer you know politically correct. You know like I think we need to fight for our spot at the table.

SPEAKER_01 58:08

I agree. I catch myself sometimes just being so focused on raising the puppies and taking care of them and doing the day-to-day taking care of them that I like no I need to take time to get on social media. I need to take time to promote sometimes one of the last things I get around to is taking pictures of them and advertising them and it's like no that's my life blood that I need to be able to take time and do that. But sometimes it's just hard to find the time to do that most important part.

SPEAKER_03 58:40

Hugely important part's all we have all we have to see. And you know one thing on that I've noticed on social media and stuff if you go ahead and Google you know a breed name and a city and then another that same breed name and another city all of the same keywords are purchased by the same online pet stores. Right. And and so this kind of is quashing out the breeders being able to come up and be found because all of these keywords are being bought and this is something AKC because as much as we love AKC and I love AKC if I was going to ever have a tattoo AKC but their website sucks. It's so bad.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

And and I mean and this is something they could so do and they could make themselves so invaluable to the breeders to go ahead here's the breed here's the history of the breed here's the people raising the breed you know and here are reputable people that are you know in your area or whatever or this is if you want to do events with your breed I think that this is something that they could really do that would then could bring people into breeds and the people that are already having them can we get rid of the dot org or gambling go to dot com you know yeah the dot org makes you think of like a you know a governmental agency they're always you know cities and things like you know all the min min uh government municipalities are always dot org can we get dot com on akc and make it feel a little bit more current but yeah the website's garbage yeah and even just like having sections on there is like show dock diving show all the other events that you can do with them and then kind of list like these are some of the breeds if you're you know if you're interested in the duck diving here's some of the breeds that are really good at dock diving or barn hunt or any of these other activities out there fast cat and you know kind of not everybody's going to be into confirmation want to get in a ring and and walk their dog around in a circle and show you know how they spread this dog to the breed standard. A lot of people want to go out and throw a frisbee and have their dog run and catch it. Well dock diving might be really fun for you because you can throw something and your dog can run and jump off a dock and into a pool and you see how far they can jump. Like there's a lot of cool stuff out there that we could help promote and and the breeds that can go with it and help people discover. I mean I found so many breeds showing dogs that I didn't even know I would have never known half of the breeds that I know now if it wouldn't be for just getting into dog showing in general and having to be around other dogs. It's like so many dogs look the same and you're just like I don't know it's an Italian greyhound. No it's a whippet you know it's like they all like outsiders that don't know you know if you're not in it a whippet and an Italian greyhound you know it's the same dog. You know they they they look so much the same from somebody's not educated into purebred dogs and what they are. It's all just like kind of the same aspect of it. You know a lab is a golden retriever is a lab is a you know like that's what people don't know. And so trying to figure out how to get that education across I think is is pretty vital.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:03

Well and and kids I mean I had the best time doing juniors at the Min Pin National I had a great entry of juniors and those kids did so good with their dogs. I mean it's like going and this is something you know where like with 4 H and stuff not everybody can go ahead and have a have a calf or have you know or go be in that vote but you know what they could it's pretty cool if they could go show their family dog and go do junior show and learn learn how to train and how to work with their animal and and go compete in something like that where they're kind of competing against themselves and it's a great activity why are we why we not promoting this more why are we not like getting out there and and and saying look this a and even to the point and this one we might get a little hate mail on this so remember just write Tyson. Nobody's listening at an hour and five minutes anyway everybody's ready to get out yeah they've already left but I think that there is nothing wrong with the idea of a family raising a beautiful litter of healthy puppies and then off you know and doing the work together selling them together and and all of that that's a that's a great a great thing and and you know and and maybe they can make make some vacation money or whatever whatever you know I mean all of that kind of stuff I mean why why not?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

Why not why why not experience and responsibility to learn yes absolutely and it never used to be a bad thing growing up on the farm it was like we had a boy dog and we had a female dog and it was like they bred and had puppies twice a year and we sold the puppies to other farmers. They're pure breds I mean we had you know little border collies you know and it was just like it is you know and and we would praise little puppies and it was like yeah cool we had puppies we weren't a breeder by any means at anything they just bred on the farm and did their thing and we sold puppies the puppies you know at the county fair and and things like that and they were papered and all that stuff but I don't think there's anything wrong with that you know if somebody's in 4 H and has a dog and then you know it's like maybe you don't have two to breed but you you know you get a stud service or you do something you know and you have a litter it's it's a great learning experience for kids. I can tell you my kids have learned a lot watching uh a whelping and and then the responsibility of raising puppies and and really the responsibility of dogs. Like my kids didn't grow up I grew up on a farm I know what chores are about morning and night is 365 days a year.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:39

My kids didn't they grew up in the city they had no clue until we started breeding and raising dogs and now it's like what are you talking about Sunday and we have to go do chores in the morning? Like well yeah the dogs still need fed and we still need to clean up dog poop. Like yep doesn't matter you know and and now you know doing it for so long it's becoming it's becoming their habit but there's a lot of work ethic in there that is introduced to children and to kids and and you know dogs still need to be walked and exercised and fed and cleaned and bathed and all the responsibilities that come with it. It's huge. It's so important for the kids. Yeah. Well and that's just the thing and and and and especially in today's world where I mean we're the lazy generation now where it's like we want to do everything on our phone and and not you know we can we can press a few buttons and have our groceries delivered to our house you know so we're we're very very hard pressed to find good work ethic and that's 4 H and dogs and dog showing is a very good way to instill work ethic in our youth.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:49

Right. Well Peg thank you so much for taking time out and spending some time with us today I mean because you should be taking pictures of your puppies and posting them right now. But we're we're glad that you came and and spent us you know gave us an hour of your time.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:05

Yeah thank you guys for you absolutely thank you so much. Yeah don't leave just yet we're gonna end this episode and then uh we'll talk to you right when this episode is over so thanks everybody for uh joining this episode of the Tack Box Podcast uh don't forget to follow us on Facebook and all our socials subscribe to our YouTube channel give us all the thumbs up and likes and share it us out because this was a great conversation today and I think people need to hear it and we can all help each other in the purebred dog world grow the purebred mindset around there. We just have to be loud and proud about our purebred dogs. All right everybody thank you we'll talk to you next week bye bye now thank you