Episode 73: Laura Reeves | AI | Purebred Dogs and Industry Changes

In this episode, Laura Reeves, known for Pure Dog Talk, shares her journey into the dog world, the evolution of dog shows, and the impact of social media and AI on breeding and judging. Discover insights on how to adapt to industry changes and foster a thriving dog community.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

What is going on, everybody? Welcome to the Tech Box Podcast. We are recording today for episode 73. We've got to episode 73 here. And for this episode, as we're chugging along and our numbers are climbing and we're getting more episodes under our book, actually, but like YouTube sent me a thing the other day is like, congratulations on 250 uploads. And it's like, so between shorts and you know all the things you get there. And it's like, hey, we've been doing this for a while now. And so that kind of leads us right into our guest for this week's episode of the podcast. We have Laura Reeves with us, who everybody probably knows as you know, pure dog talk. That's how I know her. But there's so much more to her than that. So we're gonna kick off this episode. I'm gonna hand it over to Laura to talk a little bit about herself, her journey into dogs, where she's at now, the podcast, all the things. So everybody that doesn't know a history on her can kind of hear that from her mouth. So thanks for joining us, Laura, this week. Uh really appreciate you taking the time to come out and be on our podcast. But if you would give us a little bit of backstory on you.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

I will do it. Thanks, Tyson. I appreciate it. Good to see you, Dale.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Good to see you too.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

I started Pure Dog Talk Podcast in uh 2016. So this is our 10th anniversary this year.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Wow, congrats. Did you get like some kind of blacker award or anything for 10 years? No, for myself.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

What I'm gonna give my my own plaque. I don't know. Yeah, there you go. No, but I but I designed us a cute little 10th anniversary rewind logo so that we can slap on it. So uh my backstory. I started in dog care for H when I was in fourth grade because my mother uh decided that I was shy and retiring and lacked people skills. And so she put me in Dog Care 4-H with my Beagle Docks and Cocker Spaniel Lasso, so poodle, Heinz 57 dog named Morris, and that uh essentially changed the trajectory of my life because I was kind of a horrible little creature, and I was the head bookworm in third grade, and my best friend was the librarian, and you know, it was it was a thing. So dogs gave me something that I could do that nobody else in my family could, and I was a smart kid, but everybody in my family was smart. And my brother was athletic and I wasn't, and dah dah, dah, dah. So that's that's what it was. So I uh went to college and got a degree in journalism. I was a newspaper reporter for a while and did all the things, and uh variety of reasons wound up showing dogs for other people and making more money doing that than I was making money in my freelance business. So I just showed dogs for 25, more than 25 years. Retired from handling in 2018, and uh by that time I'd already started the podcast, so I was busy with the podcast and I started judging, and I am now uh judge the whole sporting group, plus a variety of random extra hounds working, terrier, even a terrier, and a couple toys, as well as juniors. So I've I've quite enjoyed, had never intended to be a judge. That was 100% not on my list. And I was interviewing Betty Ann Stenmark for the podcast, and she said, So when are you gonna start judging? And I'm like, No, I no. Have you seen this face? No, I can't judge. And she she was very adamant. She insisted that I must, that I was a breeder to my toes, and therefore I should be a dog show judge. So whether you love me or hate me as a judge, you guys, you can just blame Betty Ann.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

See, I feel like I can say this now, but like I feel like I'd be an awful judge because I wear my expressions on my face. So I feel like if I see a really nice dog, I'm gonna be like, whoa. Or if I see a really crappy one, I'm like, ugh, you know, like I feel like I could probably be bad at it.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

I'm telling you the number of times that I've come out of the ring and either the rep or my friends who are just happened to watch me judge, or some random stranger like Laura, fix your face.

unknown 4:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

And that's that's a legit statement to it for people that like wear it on their face. It's like fix your face. And it's like that's a thing in our house. We tell each other that all the time.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Yeah, I I have a notorious resting bitch face. And I also have a super bad habit that I've been trying desperately to break when I'm thinking about the standard. So I'm like looking at the dog and trying to remember the particular line in the standard. I kind of like access the the Rollodex in my head, and it looks like I'm rolling my eyes at people.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Yeah, yeah. I can see that.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

I'm not rolling my eyes at them. I'm thinking. I'm thinking. There's smoke coming out my ears. Come on, you guys.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

So what while we're talking about podcasts and you still a little bit before I know Dale's got some questions, but like what prompted you to start the podcast where we're, you know, because now that you're doing it, you're just like, God, I'm probably crazy for doing that. You know, it's like you you know how much work and goes into it and trying to think of topics and guests.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Yep. Yep. It's a lot of things. Well, okay, so in 2016, I was reaching a point my body was not going to cooperate with me being a dog handler forever. And so I had tried to decide, you know, what are you gonna do with your life? You're too young to really be retired, and you don't have any money saved. So PS, you should probably still have a job. So I happened to be chatting with a random person. I went, it was such a serendipity. I would never, I never went to Southern California. I was in Southern California three weekends in a row. I happened to be set up next to the same person three weekends in a row, and her name is Mary Alby, and she is a stunt coordinator in Hollywood and a Norwegian elkown breeder. And she and I just struck up a friendship and started talking about it, and she said, Well, I want you to host my podcast. And I'm like, What's a podcast?

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:07

And uh I hemmed and hawed and tried to get out of it and told her I'd write her scripts. And I was a writer. I mean, this is, you know, I know. Anyway, so she convinced me and she flew up here from LA and sat me down at my dining room table and parked a mic in front of me and said, Go. And that's how we have pure dog talk. And also, P.S. As an aside, the spin-off podcast, which is called The Marty and Laura Show, that I do with uh Dr. Marty Greer. And that particular podcast is for all of your puppy buyers. It is literally for everybody that owns a pet. It doesn't even have to be a purebred dog for veterinary advice or pet just pet ownership stuff. And we're really, you know, we talk a lot in our world about wanting to find ways to to reach out to junkie public, right? To the average person who owns pet.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Help them navigate the process.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Right. And we bitch and moan and kvetch and and and wail and gnash our teeth that nobody's doing anything. So we're doing the thing. And uh that's I've listened.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

It's really cool.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

It's a lot of fun. It's meant to be pretty light, pretty, pretty casual, pretty much a buddy, a buddy road trip podcast, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Oprah and Gale.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Yeah, Marty and I have great fun. So it uh it works. And so it's really it's been a journey for sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Well, yeah. I mean, 10 years. I I I mean, I hope Dale's still around wanting to do this in 10 years. Or and I don't mean that bad, like he's not gonna die, but I mean like wanting to do the part, wanting to sit down, he's gonna live forever.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Come on now, Tyson.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

As many groups as he keeps taking on judging, it's like he's not gonna have time for podcasting in 10 years. I'm just hoping he still has time between all the judging and traveling and he's gonna come and outfit my handicapped bathroom.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

You wait and see.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah. I'm I'm telling you, I'm the guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

So, well, I was super excited about the chance we could get the dog mother, you know, of the of today's podcast world on today. Because I mean, you know, having been in this, you know, longer than Tyson's been alive, I I, you know, it's it's kind of amazing how much information and how the effect that these podcasts bring to the breeding world, the showing world, the dog ownership world. I mean, you know, you were a very successful handler and you're a very popular judge, but your impact and your footprint on the dog community has been through your podcasts. I mean, and that and because that's where people know you from and and the information. How do you think that that has changed how we get information out? Because everything is changing so fast, and the dog world were notoriously bad about resisting change, any kind of change, and we just go into a deep state of mourning. We can't hardly, you know, we can't eat, we can't sleep, we have to call all our friends and complain, you know. But I mean, you know, just as like with with what you've done with social media, how is that like, you know, for breeders, owners, AKC even, clubs, how do they need to, and maybe maybe even veterinarians taking animal health online? Because that's where we all live now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

I think when we started the podcast, one of the things that I said is that I wanted to bring people 20th century knowledge in a 21st century way. And that has really maintained itself, remained the most important thing that we do either on Pure Dog Talk, on the Marty and Laura show, on any of the various ventures that we've created from Pure Dog Talk. It is about getting this knowledge that Dale, you and I have in our heads because we've been doing this since Davy Crockett was just a boy. Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

His first dog.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

You and I learned from hanging out like a fly on a wall, right? And we were kids or young teenagers or young people, and we sat there and kept our mouths shut and just absorbed. And I can't tell you how many people I've talked to in our in our world for whom that's the case. This generation that we're living in right now, they don't have that opportunity, Dale. And so by developing products or delivery systems or what have you that allow us to give someone the feeling of being a fly on the wall. That they're able to learn a thing and not have to tell anybody they didn't know it.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Right. Right. And they can ask a question and not have to be embarrassed and come and hold their hand out in front of them. But but even like, you know, when I see people like the purebred people, we don't uh necessarily uh admire what the what the uh designer dog people have done. But their marketing and the way they have taken that to reels and to um uh you know all of the different social media platforms tick-tockies, tiki-talkies. Yeah. I mean, and I mean they kind of have they've they've actually made a whole entity from their embracing this new technology and how and the new way of communicating. I guess this is really what it comes down to is communication.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

Well, Dale, I think that you know I we look at this world that is completely fractured, right? There's there's 68,000 different platforms to get whatever information you want, whether it's dog information or political information or weightlifting information or runners information, whatever it is. There's TikTok, there's Instagram, there's Facebook, there's podcasts, there's YouTube, there's Twitch, there's Reddit, there's so much that tele nobody watches television, nobody really listens to the radio, maybe satellite, you know, if you have XM in your car. That's about it. Right. And so the world that you and I grew up in where the communication strategy, you'll notice I didn't even mention a print option there, did I? No newspapers, no magazines. And even in our world, the dog magazines are recognizing and responding to the fact that they need to be more online. Because nobody, and I do mean nobody, is picking up a new a magazine at a dog show. Never mind the 10 boxes that that we get there to to everybody to read, and nobody reads. We read everything online.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

And how long before that information is considered to be old? Because I mean, remember when we would win with our dog and we'd wait two, three weeks to get the picture. I know. And then we'd mail it off to our breed magazine.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

I mean, dog dudes is ahead of the curve because they've been weekly for so long, but a monthly dog magazine, like I why? Why why?

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah, yeah. Why, why? Well, I feel like we're kind of going through one of those transitions too, and I think the successful people see those transitions ahead of time and get on board with them quickly. Like, I think you know, the the people that jumped on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok. I never got into TikTok. I couldn't figure it out. But it's like I wish I would.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

You and me, Tyson. I can't. I I told somebody, I'm like, I need to hire someone to do my tiki-duckies because I don't know. Yeah, like I have had to take a look at the stuff.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

It's just not an interesting platform for me.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

You know, and and so I feel like we miss out a lot on that because we we don't do that. And, you know, where we went from a lot of print stuff, we went to the internet and Facebook. You know, Facebook and Instagram have kind of been the home. But even talking about those, like, they're still a home and and and they bring a lot of value. But one thing that we didn't mention in any of this conversation that we should be focused on is the chat, these AI systems that people are getting their information from the system.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

This is what I was just gonna say. Yes, Tyson. This is literally the conversation I've been having this weekend with my team on my podcast, talking about I saw a thing come through on Facebook talking about training AI models. And I really wanted to talk to Dale about this because I think this is so important, you guys. AI models are being trained, and they're being trained about everything all the time. Where do you suppose AI models are getting their information to teach the AI model? If you ask ChatGPT, is a dog breeder a good thing? What do you think the answer's gonna be?

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Only if you can't have a fur farm or tobacco plantation. I think that would be right in there, you know.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

But, but, but, but we can this is where the egalitarian we can make a difference. This is where the egalitarian piece of this comes in. We can train AI too. We don't have to let we can actually get ahead of it instead of letting PETA train the damn AI, like we let them train our legislators. We can train AI. We can go to Chat GP, tell me about purebred dogs. Here's resources, here's pure dog talk, here's the tack box, here's AKC, here's dog news. We can train AI to have accurate information about purebred dogs and about dog breeders. We can make our websites and our socials and our videos accessible to AI. And you can do one of two things. You can either say, no, I don't want them pirating my work, or you can say, Yeah, I want AI to learn about purebred dogs from me.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yes, absolutely, 100%. And I think to myself, like, like kennel clubs, you know.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

Yes, every every Albrecht club, every Albrecht club, everybody should be doing this right now. I would love to think the American Kennel Club can do it, but I've seen their website, so I think it's something.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah, I'm not quite sure.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

Yeah, I think it's up to us.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Yeah, yeah. It's it's that's the they you know, and I mean we're cheap make I see. We're it's kind of like what 100%. I'm not saying when we say it, it's coming from your family, honey. That makes you look fat. You know, you you need to listen to us because we want to see you do well. Yes. Yeah, time time we gotta we gotta deal with that because tick tock, the only thing tick tock. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

And and t TikTok was one of those where they were talking about banning it, where I was kind of like, oh, this would be good. Please ban it because I haven't got on board with this yet. So just ban it so it can go away because then I don't have to try to figure it out. Yeah. Let it be gone because it's turning my kids into morons, you know, and you know, I don't I don't want to have to learn another social media system.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

Here's here's another thing for you, Tyson, just to kind of do a little bit of a generational thing on you. Dale and I are basically the same age, roughly, it's in a few years. And we have over the course of our lifetimes learned not just to type on the typewriter, like we could do that. Then we had to type on a computer, and then there was the internet, and that was a whole new thing, and then it got to be fast. And then there was all of and now AI, like this is just 30 years, not even 30 years, 20 years, 26 years, basically.

unknown 18:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

When okay, so let me ask you this question. This this should be a rapid fire question, but it's not. When you text, do you do voice text or do you type it out on you with your fingers? No, I type it with my fingers. Okay. So you're in the anomaly, I guess. I've I'm like, I'm putting everything together. Dale's always voice texting, and and I'm just like, I can't. It's the generational thing. Voice texting.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

No, uh-uh. I'm a ch typer. I'm not, I'm not, I don't use voice to like occasionally when I'm driving, you know, if I have a podcast idea or a a topic that I want to talk about, or I because I I like write things in my head while I'm driving. Driving is one of my favorite things to do because I finally get to concentrate enough to write something in my head. So I'll talk to my I'll talk to my notes app or I'll talk to my, you know, to my phone to to remember the idea and kind of work through that.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

But that's about the only thing I use it for.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

No, no, I see like sometimes that uh when we get the the kennel club does is communicating to people through social media more now than they ever have. It's not just the secretary's page coming out. I mean, we're actually getting some stuff is being released on social media, and I think they maybe even kind of take some feedback on that on social media. I don't know if it's official or unofficial, but you know, we see things that kind of come across there like we're wanting to abbreviate group judging, and there you see the pros and you see the cons and and and all of the change on that. How do you think the best way to deliver that kind of thing and kind of explain? Because like the people that I know that have said, I hate this, I I stayed for four hours to have my dog judge. I want people to see it, I want da-da-da-da-da. And you're going, yeah, but you know, when we started this whole group thing, there were seven groups and best in show. Now there's 14 groups, two reserved best in shows, and two best in shows, best pu a four best four to six puppy, and everything else. And and and our our ancient grains judges, you know, we've been up since 5 a.m. to be here. I mean, and we're 14 hours into this smile. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

No, my smile's gone by that. My feet are done, my smile's done. I can stare at the camera and be like, take the picture, let's go, chop, chop. Let's go. You know, I think that no matter which what the topic is, is the topic this elite runway experience, is the topic changes in the in the rules, is the topic the fact that they moved some rule about changes in dog's appearances to a different place so it showed up in the secretary's page and everybody's freaking out. Because AKC has in its regulations that if the state that you're judging dogs in bans uh cropping of ears or docking of tails, that they have to be disqualified based on the change of standards or the change of appearance rules. Which no one had ever seen. Every single one of us that's read the rule book. I went back and read the rule book. Yes, it did say cropped ears. They've added docked tails, they've moved it to a different section, but the American Kennel Club has pre-surrendered.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

So now the state's just it the state's legislature can basically say it's illegal in our state, even though it's in the breed standard. You know, like so then you have to judge so they have to know state roles.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

They're they're pre surrendered to that. And so currently there are no states where it's illegal, thank God. But again, just these are the types of things that people need to be more aware of the the The delegate body needs to be more engaged in. And I think that, you know, there's conversations to be had out there, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Well, I I think there's some real conversations because like part of what we see is like um a large number of our panels have been comprised of um foreign judges. And and my friends who are with the clubs and show chairs are like, man, we need all-rounder judges. And good luck with that. These, well, they're getting they're getting 40 and 50-year-old all-rounder judges from these other countries. Because they're all and they can come in and they're they're the reciprocating clause, and they can come in, they can have, you know, they've been they've been judging 10 years, they're now they're approved as an all-rounder. And so they can do 16 shows a year at the AKC. So if that's possible for people outside of the country, why can't we have that possible for people inside the country? Because I know myself, I would be willing to judge 16 times a year as an all-rounder. Sure, okay, sure. You know, that'd be fine.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

You know, the judge's approval process never ceases to make my head want to spin off my body. I am $50,000 of a home equity into my one group.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

You do. I was gonna say, is this a money thing? Because if you spend 10 years and all of a sudden you're just gifted all breeds, that's a lot of money losing from for AKC, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Because you have to do so much educational stuff in the the AKC isn't making that much money. I'm spending that much money to travel to Orlando, to travel to nationals, to travel all over the country on my dime to pay for the Kennel Club to hire me.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Right. Because you're a screenboard submarine as a as a provisional judge, you are basically as a you know, I I'm they are same, you know. It's like, sure.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Yeah, but you also got the special dispensation and got a whole group.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

I did not. You didn't? Okay. I did not. Lots of people did. I did apply, but I did not get. I got my, I think 16 breeds is what I on my application, but but I did not I did not qualify for my toys, which was fine.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

You know, I mean I think I think that basically the bottom line is a lot of us a lot of us don't get special dispensation. And a lot of us spend a long time. I mean, I'm reasonably well known, and it's taken me eight years.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Now, COVID was in the middle of it, and whatever, whatever, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

But eight years.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

But do you think we're losing a lot of you think we're losing some of our most talented people?

SPEAKER_03 24:50

I don't think it. I know. We're aging them out. We're aging them out.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

We're aging them out. They're just like going, I'm 60 now, I don't have eight years to get a group, I'm not going to, you know, I mean, that kind of thing. I mean, I've already got Tyson concerned, I'm not going to be well enough to do a podcast. I mean, can you imagine? Can you imagine?

SPEAKER_03 25:10

I know it for a fact. I come, you come from the breeder side, I come from the handler side. I know all these people. All of these people in a normal world would have retired like I did, 50, 55, and started judging. They look at this process and they're like, are you insane? I can't spend 10 years without any income. I can't do it. I can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

And so our best minds, some of the best dog people I know, breeders who who've worked within our standards.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

Our standards who have had who've had their hands on thousands of dogs will never judge because they can't afford it.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Right. And we lose because of that. We lose a lot of our career.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

The sport loses badly. The sport loses badly. Because what is the sing you tell me, Dale, what's the single most hated person at a dog show? It's you and me, honey.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yeah. Sure. It's the dog show judge. We're loved by a very tiny little bun.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

We're loved by the one person that gets the big ribbon. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

One person out of however many hundred or thousand. Dog show judges are.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

I just think that in in some ways we're doing more for people, other people. And I mean, and I'm not throwing shade on the there's some really very fine FCI and foreign judges, some very good dog people. Really good dog people. I think that we're kind of turning our back on some of our people who are so gifted, like longtime handlers, longtime breeders, that it's like, man, I'd love to see them judge. I'd love to have them, you know, and they're like, you know. They won't do it.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Trust me, I've taught I've tried Andy Linton, Bill McFadden, Mike Brantley, all these people that I've known for decades, who I think are absolute geniuses, and they just they won't do it because they can't afford it.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Aged out. Ran them out. Yeah, time, you know, time. I know if I can if I live long enough to get the third my sporting group, which is my original breeze. Um, I don't know if I'll go beyond that. I think that would be that would be enough.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

You know, I've got the sporting group. I'm gonna poke at hounds and maybe working, but they're both giant flipping groups.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Giant groups with tons of low entry breeze. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

I I know. And I I was gonna do toys, and then you scared me away with your peacock feet conversation. And so now I can't.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

I can do this. I have such faith in you.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

I don't know. I'm I'm a finger. Yeah. Terriers, I'm terrified to do terriers. Like the terrier people will be mean to me, and I'll cry, and it'll be awful.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

They're only mean to you if you if they like you.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Yeah, I know. No, actually, that's not true, Dale. I showed terriers. They're just mean to you. They like to spar a little bit. That's that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

They're terrier people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah. But I I do see that that's something that, you know, that that's a conversation. It's like that's a conversation. Like people that have put a have dedicated a lifetime, maybe, maybe we need to use them while while we can, you know.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

Well, and I think that was sort of the origin of what I call the Burgett Cody rule, you know, that that Birgit wanted to judge, and that's when they created that special dispensation plan. And I think that, I mean, that's still there for some people, but again, judging dogs is not a way to make a living, guys. I don't know how to tell you this.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

No, I'm not gonna say it because I think much the same as I think that the AKC world is kind of like we mirror Europe in many ways just a few years back. So, like the uh, because they're the ones that came up with the no-cropping docking, and we were like, okay, we'll do that. I think that now, you know, I mean, there aren't really professional handlers over there per se. There's like mostly just mostly most owners, owners showing, which and I think a lot of the few people that a couple, but I mean, not like we see you're not there's not parking lots full of it's not the military industrial complex of dog handlers that we have in the US. And I think that a lot of the people that I know that judge there, they don't judge every year. You know, I mean, they judge a little and it's it's just a hobby.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

And I think that that's we have far fewer dog shows. I mean, this is this is on our list of things to talk about. There's way fewer dog shows, and there's way more dogs at each dog show, whether you're in in Europe or in the UK or any of those places, there's just there's less dog shows.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Which drives your entries up. Kind of like right the show's right up or go.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Well, and that's something we people want to talk about a lot is like declining entries. And it's like, well, are entries looking like they're declining because there's so many more dog shows? And then as somebody that's you know going around to dog shows, if there was less, would you go to I mean, you would go to I mean if there's one every weekend now, it's like you're figuring in the travel to all of that stuff, all these expenses. If there was one a month or two a month, you'd probably be at every show because you could you're not now it's like there's a show every weekend and you have to decide, do I want to take a weekend off? And then it's really hard like if you're trying to, you know, get a dog into the rankings, it's who can show up the most, really.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

I can tell you as a matter of fact, when I was still hand, I mean, this is when I was still handling this 10 years ago. I, because my own personal health issues, going more than three times a month was was like special needs cases, like the summer or something, I'd maybe hit four shows. But it's very difficult to be in all the places and do all the things when you can't go every single weekend for whatever reason, whether it's health or or money.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

I think we need to change the narrative a little bit on that because when we say go every weekend, how does every weekend evolve into five and six shows? Because that's the point.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

It's not even every weekend.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

It's not every weekend, it's every day. It's every day. It's like, what what day is our national on? Is it Tuesday?

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Well, Tuesday's like the meet and greet Tuesday night, and then the show is Wednesday. Our national's on Wednesday.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

It's like yeah, and then we we just keep on.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

That's fine. But now you take your vacation every dog show weekend. So as a handler, I mean I I did this. So it you would start and you would do four days in Palm Springs. That's four days of showing. Remember, you have to drive for a day and a half to get there and spend a half a day setting up and drive a day and a half home. So wait, that's an entire week. But you have to get to Puallop by Thursday night so you can set up the ass crack of Friday morning, and you'll be there till the end of the day on Monday, and then you'll have five minutes to do your laundry and drive down to Portland, hope there isn't a snowstorm or an ice blizzard, and set up on Wednesday to start the four days in Portland. That was a January.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

And and who is the person? I mean, because you've got somebody who is like cleaning crates and getting the vehicle ready and working with the dogs. Who's doing all of the reserve grooming places, all of the hotel reservations, all of the entries, the multiple superintendents, all of the I mean, you need a full staff of people just to keep track of all of the people.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

Unless you were me and I didn't have a staff. So, but yeah, it's it's insanity. And I I think, you know, I said I said a couple things on a podcast last week. First of all, the people in our world are stuck in 1986. They're pretty sure it's still 1986, they want it to always be 1986. And why aren't there 3,000 dogs? And why doesn't it take 50 dogs to make a major? And it's not a 1986 anymore, y'all. So that's one. And two is the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

That's true. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

So I I mean, I have had conversations, I have have written things, I have talked to people. There are suggested solutions, there are ways to fix these things, but very few of them are things that you and I can fix, or the average listener in your podcast can fix.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

And the system is kind of taking over, and now instead of instead of our events are becoming more of um an event rather than a sport.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

So there's I mean, neither of which is actually judging breeding stock, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

No, but I mean, you think about like the things that you would win for with your dog, and you might show your dog all year and you get a handful of ribbons or whatever. Nowadays, you walk out of there with a puppy and you've look like you've won the Kentucky Girby, and you've got like blankets of roses and ribbons and this and that. I was like, good lord, that's just tens of thousands of dollars and just rosettes. And what do y'all do with that? You know, I mean, I mean, you know, it's it's it's kind of a whole different whole different thing now. And and there's so many more ways you can get points. You can be the only dog and the only bitch. And if you go best of winners, you get point, or if you get any replacement you can get out of get points.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

And it's because there's fewer dogs. The the only way there'd be a champion is if to do is to do that. That's the point.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Right. That's there you go. There you go. So we're just gonna make our advance. Because like when I talk to show chairs, they're like, okay, we're going to have to have ice sculptures and someone go ahead and do some fire dancing, and so we can get if we can't do dock, if we can't do dock diving, we're just not gonna get our, you know, and I'm thinking, wow, this is like well it so there's so many pieces of this, Dale.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Think about this. The the owner handled program, which we think is fantastic, we support it 100%. But it encourages people to be in two places at once and focus on one dog for a long time. That in addition to the grand championship program is nobody needs a new puppy.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

Okay, so those are some things. The the piece that I was talking to another judge about a while back that I think is a couple pieces that are missing. Critiques, I think, is something that we need to uh examine. I'm actually doing this as a seminar now, like offering one day of structured anatomy and another day of 15 minutes of my time to give you a written critique along with pro tips on grooming and handling of your dog. And people are so flipping tired. And I think that could be something that grows, honestly. I mean, you and I and and Bill McFadden sit down at a dog show and write critiques for people or do it at a seminar all by itself without a dog show. And people are so happy to have someone just talk to them instead of spending $40 to get a 10-cent ribbon and a kick in the ass.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Well, so the ribbon's $1.50. Yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Say it.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Just say it. Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying. And and and you're you're right. I think we are losing some people who are that might be like dedicated a lot. We're getting a lot of event turning out type thing. It's more like a concert type of thing. We're getting we're getting a lot going on, but I don't know if we're getting a lot of dog people wanting to start a program that are hungry for dog knowledge. And that because I I don't know as if the shows are really so much about that now.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

We all, you know, when when they started adding all the various uh fun events, which I think is great, a lot of people suggested that this would be like a gateway drug, right? Like I'm gonna get you hopped up on on the on the crazy weed, and then maybe down the road you're gonna want something a little more strong. It's not working out that way.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Well, but what did we used to call it when your dog got its championship? What was that word we used when you would call and tell them that their dog got its championship? What was the word we used? Finished. Well, we've only just begun, baby, because there are 27 levels of precious minerals of grand that we can get up to plutonium or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

When I, you know what, when I was campaigning the dogs, I never even like somebody'd asked me how many grand channel. I have no idea. They just keep sending me pieces of paper. I have no clue.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, we're not finishing this dog now, like finished. It's like we're done showing it. Now we're gonna take it back home, we're gonna breed it, see if we can get an even better one.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

Right. No, we're gonna keep showing it.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

We're gonna show this dog until its wheels fall off, or we get every piece of every everything. And I think that that's kind of counterproductive. I don't know. It doesn't really make for dog breeding. It doesn't really make for dog breeding, it doesn't really make for people focusing on a program going forward because I tend to think that people will only work as hard as it takes to get the goal. So if the goal is a championship, well then why do I need to like do four litters and pick back just the best puppy type thing when I can do one litter and I can championize each and every one of these puppies? All I have to do is keep going to shows, you know.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

Well, I think that I think it's even less than that, actually. I think people buy a dog and the breeder talks them into showing it, and great. That is that's step one. We nailed it. Okay. Step two, they take the dog, they finish his championship. Maybe it's grand, whatever. And then maybe they dabble in some other events. There's no step three breed the dog because breeders are not willing to let go of that. We have to do a better job, y'all. We have to mentor other people. I want it to be a world in which you're judged as a successful breeder by how many people are carrying your line forward.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

I shared an Eleanor Roosevelt quote the other day on Facebook about that, about the true meaning of success and how it relates to other people. But I also think that when we go ahead and sue things like, so limited registration. I'm old enough to remember prior to limited registration. And if you went and bought a dog, you got the paper, it was your dog. You know, you pay for it. Yeah. The end. And you might talk to these people again, or you might not, you know, and they, you know, they would give you a baggie of purina, and you're you got puppy chow and you got you got a blue paper. Maybe Attaboy. Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

And you remember the yellow cups from Attaboy? I do.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

They're wonderful because it was exactly one cup, you know. And the uh, but you know, then you had the choice. It was your dog. You might breed it, you could show it, you could sell it, you could do whatever. It was your dog, right? And now, somewhere along the line that now as a breeder, we're going to we're going to be, you know, and I and I realized like we're going to limit the registration, we're going to contract them, we're going to this, we're going to that. You're buying, it's kind of like you're buying a property, but you're not getting the mineral rights, and you're going to have to get a special use permit if you want. And I think as its control has gone down, it's been good for business in a way, because it stomps out competition.

SPEAKER_03 41:49

Because that's sort of the point. We don't want to stomp out competition.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

But we are stomping out competition. And it's so it's really kind of hard to ask.

SPEAKER_03 41:57

But my point is, I don't want us to do that anymore, Dale. I want, I've got this gal here and this gal here, and this gal over here that are taking my dogs and breeding them forward and doing different things with them. Like maybe I didn't want you to breed it to that thing. Whatever, that's not my my job. I want you to carry because somewhere down the line, that's going to be useful to me. And if we are not, as breeders, encouraging that, then we're failing.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I feel like the only way, like the fact that, you know, for for my breed to go on and my the breeding to continue, it's like, I am super excited for Tyson to make mistakes with my dogs. And when he calls me, Tyson, he just threw you under the bus, dude. I'm super excited. So he's gonna he's gonna text me and say, this happened. I'm gonna go, dumbass, you shouldn't have done that. You know, but it's his mistake, and he's gonna have to do it. And I mean, because, you know, uh and experience it, and it's gonna have to be his, you know, and the successes will be his too. And I'm I'm totally cool with that.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Well, and you can learn a lot of that, you know, like I'm gonna make mistakes along the way, 100%. I'm gonna do so many bad things and make so many mistakes trying to breed, and you know, and but but part of having a strong mentor is to be able to limit some of those mistakes too, being able to learn from their mistakes. And so when you have a question, it's like, don't do this, do this, that you're still gonna make the mistakes, but having that person you can reach out to and learn from their mistakes, I mean, there's I mean, I still see it it doesn't happen very often, but I see some of my mentors make mistakes still, you know, and they've been breeding for years. I've seen Dale make a mistake, you know. It's like we all do it today, you know, and like it looks like a good idea on paper.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

It looks uh, but do you think that the show world and the control and the the what we're considering to be now politically correct is kind of snuffing out. The breeding and we're doing this in our political correctness and our in a way that we're being so ethical that we're kind of we're kind of squashing it down to the point where we're not letting anything, it's like we're not letting our dogs out because that's ethical, and we're not we're not letting these people breed because that's not ethical, and we're gonna, you know, have to co-own everything because now that's you know, what do you think that that's doing long term to our our breeding population and the people who are gonna be carrying these breeds forward?

SPEAKER_03 44:32

There's a couple of pieces to that. Like, like with dog breeding, you can lose sight of the forest for the trees, right? Um, you want your COI to be super low for genetic diversity and health, and suddenly your dog's barely purebred. Right. Like it's it it's the same basic concept. We if one if if if one ounce of something is good, a pound must be better. Right? It's the same concept. We can't just like do a thing, we have to do a thing.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Right? Yeah, and and you think the competition is the competition of the whole like idea? Because we're maybe maybe the registry was supposed to be kind of like the neutral box where everybody can do go in there and do this, everyone's equal. You're a member in good standing. There. Now, now we might have clubs that may or may not be elite. Now we may have different things that separating us out and eliteness because because I like I can tell you, you know, it's like the um there is never-ending accountability, you know, because of the some of the things we talk about. Like I got a message the other day. I had sent a uh dog 10 years ago to Hawaii to a breeder. He just went ahead and re-homed the dog. I don't know why she waited to 10, but she did.

SPEAKER_03 45:59

10-year-old chin.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

10-year-old cavalier, 10-year-old cavalier. It's like going, I'm like, rehoming? Come on. Is that a rehoming or is that hospice? I'm not sure. The um the uh the new the new person getting the dog is wanting to go ahead and do a GoFundMe because the dog has these old age things. It's I've got this dog and it has all these problems. I'm like, well, it's 10 years old. Yeah, that they do at that. They're going to be a little deaf and maybe a little incontinent, and all of these things, and their teeth aren't so great, you know. It's 10. You know, it's like your dog is old, you know, and that kind of thing. But now we're gonna take that on to online. She's gonna write me back in the States and go, gee, you want to help me do this fundraiser for this 10-year-old dog?

SPEAKER_03 46:49

No, I'll just take my dog back. See, that's that's exactly what I said.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

I said, I'll just take the dog back. You're not equipped for this, you know.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

Just give me the dog. And and I've done it. I mean, I had friends that had uh one of my dogs. They'd had several, they'd had several of my dogs. And this particular they're kind of in a a job situation. They moved a lot, and they and that particular situation, they didn't, they weren't gonna be able to take this particular dog with them to this move. And she was nine, I think. Nine, kind of crotchety, kind of a you know, crotchety old lady dog. And she loathed my my bitch that I had in the house at the time. Like I've never had Wirehairs fence fight until that day, until those two dogs. So I I wound up placing my my dog with friends that needed an older dog so that I could keep the crotchety old bitch. And she died on my couch. You know, she was here for five, six years.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

I mean, that's what you do. That's the bargain.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

That's what you do.

SPEAKER_03 47:57

That's the bargain that we make.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

I have an I have another question for for Laura because because she she's a big picture kind of person in our world. Do you feel that because I've been following on Facebook and uh stuff, uh the rescue situation where the the Hollywood actress had the uh the uh the rescue that was three years delinquent in their kennel license, and when they ended up going in, instead of the 60 dogs that she was permitted for, she had 251 dogs. And they had um, you know, it she had the 251 dogs, and and she lived on a two and a half acre lot with these 251 dogs.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

I live on two and a half acres. I can't manage 25 on two and a half acres. There's no way you're gonna put 250 in Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

One. So I and so I I kind of I listened to this, and at first I think to myself, is like, you know, they didn't say the dogs were in bad condition. They said only three of them need vet care. And if you have 251 dogs and you only have three that need to see the vet, you're doing well.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Yeah. Well done. But is that rescue warehousing those dogs like that? I mean, is that is that because like for my way of thinking, I don't want to see my old dogs in a kennel. I want to see my old dogs on your couch, you know. And so, I mean, is that keeping dog like if we're gathering up these dogs and just holding on to them?

SPEAKER_03 49:36

That's a hoarding situation. That's that doesn't I'm I'm sorry. That you at that point you have some mental health issues that she should probably have addressed. And and we see so much of it, we see it in the breeder community. We just had a situation in Oregon in the breeder community that someone was hoarding dogs and it turned out to be bad. And and you and I have actually talked about the concept of people hoarding dogs in the past and and getting themselves in trouble because of it. And I think I think the bigger pro bigger problem, bigger question is undiagnosed and untreated mental health issues in our community.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Absolutely. Period. Absolutely. And I think there's a little bit of shaming that people are like, it's like rather than to go ahead and deal with these people and to find the home for this dog, like, okay, you can't have a cat. This one doesn't like cats, you know, that type of thing. You know, I mean, it's a little harder, and you maybe say, well, I'll just keep it because it's easier. And I don't want anybody to say anything bad about me because I'm placing this older dog. And so next thing you know, you you next thing, you know, it's like you you're a star on on The Exorcist, and then next thing you know, you have 251 dogs on your 10 in your two and a half acre lot.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

You know, I mean it's like behavioral as a society. Now, this is outside of our world, but even in our world, we run into it. Behavioral euthanasia has been taken off the table by so many people.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 51:08

And totally it's wrong. I have I have utilized behavioral euthanasia. I have a big tough breed that if they go wrong, it's not good. And I have personally done behavioral euthanasia for dogs in my in my world, in my breeding program, in my life. And I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

But I think that it's important for people to know that that is a responsible response.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

It it is the responsible response because if a dog can't safely live with me, it needs to go to heaven. It should be adopted by Jesus. And and and I have a pretty pretty fine line that you don't cross about what it is to live safely with me. And but my my point is when we take that off the table, when we decide that every single dog needs to live forever with with a you, F-U-R, ever, forever, you know, when we cannot make the humane decision to euthanize an older dog. I just had this conversation this morning with someone who has a almost 16-year-old wire hair pointer with tumors and this and that, and she's in pain, she can't breathe, and she's like, I don't want to have to put her down today. I'm like, why? Why? You are you are keeping this dog alive who is miserable for you.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

For you. It's purely selfish, purely selfish.

SPEAKER_03 52:29

It is entirely. So all of those things combined, and I know you're gonna hear all about what a terrible, rotten, horrible, no good, bad human being I am because I believe these things. Because that's the right Tyson. Tyson, don't don't forward it, okay? I'm like on a variety of things.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

That's the best part about being on somebody else's podcast. They complain to the the people that run the podcast, you know. Okay, so we're we're running out of time, but I do want to like there's there's something I want to toss around and then we'll do some rapid fire questions. So this is something that just kind of popped in is like, I don't know if this is even a legit thing, or but what are your guys' thoughts? So, like when we think of dog shows, and you know, I guess I'm gonna go old school here, is it was to evaluate your breeding stock, right? Well, when I think of dog shows now, you think of these dogs that have been showing for three, four years because they're chasing titles and points and national rankings and all these things. Like, they're not even breeding these dogs. So what if AKC were to say something like, you can only show a dog, you know, for a year or maybe two years, and we have this limit on it. Would that do we think that would produce more people? Would would that entice more people to breed more dogs, or would that just entice people to leave the sport?

SPEAKER_03 53:43

I am gonna I'll jump in on this one because I am as a relatively libertarian-minded human, I'm gonna say that the the the less we are told what we can and cannot do in this industry, the better off it's gonna be. I I know these people. They don't like to be bossed a whole lot. I think instead of having more regulation, which I don't believe we need, I think what we need to do is build a culture that we encourage people to breed dogs. We need, and I say this in pedigrees to pups, I say this on the podcast, I say this all the places that I talk to anybody, we need more good dog breeders. Not less, not worse, more good dog breeders. And if we can incentivize people to do that, that's gonna be a good thing. I think that, you know, if we build a culture that rewards flash and glam and how many platinum grand champions you can have, you know, that we're gonna get the world we get.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

I'm totally on board with that idea. I mean, I can kind of see the idea of saying you're gonna you know, have a, you know, you can have a rankings for what, 100 shows or whatever. You can show all the things.

SPEAKER_03 55:04

Yeah, Wayne Kavanaugh's idea about that. I thought was pretty smart. You you get to you get to count 100 dog shows, you pick the hundred.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Yeah, there you go. That kind of thing. But but you know, but honestly, whatever we celebrate, that's what people are gonna want to do. So if we're gonna celebrate elite handling with uh fashion runway, if that's what we're gonna do, okay, that's what we're gonna celebrate. If we're going to celebrate, you know, the ribbons and you know, and all this, then that's that's what's gonna be that's what's gonna come to top. But the breeders who pay for everything, they're just I always kind of think that it's kind of like that Marie Antoinette moment, like, we'll just tax the peasants, you know, again.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Let them eat cake.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Let them eat cake.

SPEAKER_03 55:51

We are in the let them eat cake version of the dog show world today.

SPEAKER_00 55:55

And because we we're the least thought of demographic. The breeders are and we pay for everything.

SPEAKER_03 56:01

We pay for you understand and I just I just did a 10th anniversary rewind of a conversation I had with Bill Shelton from literally 10 years ago. And basically, it was where the whole concept of preservation breeding started was that podcast conversation, um, which was you know cool to look back at.

SPEAKER_02 56:21

But but the point is if you don't have dog breeders, you don't have judges, you don't have a registry, you don't have dog show handlers, you don't have superintendents, you don't have St.

SPEAKER_03 56:40

John would go out of business. The the entire thing rests on the back of dog breeders. And if I argued, and it's been however many billions of years ago this was, that when they created the owner handler system, I argued instead to make a bread by championship. And the given reason given to me by an anonymous person whose name I shall not reveal was that no, it was because handlers breed dogs. So the the American Kennel Club was willing to do this because somebody somewhere was gonna be mad that they got beaten by Handler, who is also a dog breeder.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

Yeah, I I don't know as if if I don't know if if like making it the competition smaller and smaller and more divided, more divided to the point where every person gets a ribbon. I don't know if that is the goal that we're really going for here.

SPEAKER_03 57:48

You know my point is that instead of awarding and and celebrating your word celebrating breeders, they chose to celebrate the owner handlers. And I'm not opposed to celebrating owner handlers, but I am opposed to not celebrating breeders because some of those breeders are also professional handlers.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

I think that the breed I think it's all about the breeders. And if we don't have them, and if we don't have, if we don't celebrate them, if we're not, if our AKC awards, you know, I want to see, I don't want to see who won the most ribbons. I want to see who bred the most champions, who sold the people in their breed the most people their first champion.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

You know, who did, I mean, these are the things the psychic, you know, in other breeds, whose dogs are doing all the sports, whose whose dogs are happily hunting in the fields. Like you got to remember, everybody has their own mission statement. Some of us didn't have a mission statement to have 500 champions. That wasn't a really important goal. It just wasn't. Making bird dogs and dual dogs and dogs that did all the things, right? So that mission statement piece. But what we can measure is what I said before. How many people have you mentored? How many breeding programs have you started? That is a measurable thing.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

It's the whole point of giving back. And as I was saying, I was listening to Jane's doing her breed presentation for the chin specialty. Sure. And she's going through everything from Commodore Perry to the Silk Road Road negotiations when the first three pairs of chin got for the queen and for the captain and for all the. I mean, and it's fascinating when you sit back there and think how.

SPEAKER_03 59:40

So Jane needs to come on my podcast and do that whole chin thing. You and I have never talked chins. I'll have to have Jane on to do that.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

I mean, I'm listening to it and I'm like going, yeah, that's really cool. But you know, I mean, it goes all the way back to the idea of like this started, these purebred, you know, purposely bred dogs started trade negotiations with China that went. I mean, this is like, this is huge. You know, I mean, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:09

I was on somebody else's podcast the other day, and I was telling him the same thing. I wish, I dearly wish, because you've heard me say, right? Pure bred dogs are living history. This, the story that you're telling. Part of it. I dearly wish that we could go into the schools and teach history and geography with dogs.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

It's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:31

It would be so amazing. No, I know AKC has a program that does something like that, but I just feel like it should be everywhere all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

Nobody would be calling that out as boring.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:41

No. Yeah. No. Huge. We don't want boring. No boring. All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:48

We we are rarely boring around here, Tyson. Just all right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

Let's end this episode with. I mean, this has been great, and we're over the hour mark. We might have to have you back for a second episode if the listeners want to hear more of this. But let's end this uh episode off with a rapid fire questions for I got like seven or eight rapid fire questions for Laura. She's gonna answer them very quickly. And and so uh you guys can hopefully understand a little bit more about her, and we got these a little bit fun, fun ones in here. So, most underrated dog breed.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:18

Most underrated?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:21

Okay. Most underrated dog breed. Honestly, Welsh Springer Spaniels love them.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:29

How about the most overrated dog trend? Outfits. Like at the shows? Best advice you've ever received. Fix your face. Yeah. That's a good one. I like that. Biggest mistake new breeders make. Breeding to the ribbon. They're just breeding to your most famous dog.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Yeah. Absolutely. Favorite dog you've ever owned. And you don't need to say like Sam or Willie, but maybe like breed.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

German wire hair pointer, my heart dog. I loved him.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:12

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:13

He was just, I can still I can like burst into tears right now. So let's that's what we get. Henry.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

One thing every exhibitor should stop doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:22

Shoving food in your dog's mouth while you're stacking it. Teach it to stand up. Give it rewards after it has stood up. As Ed Biven said on my podcast one time, we're not feeding dogs in the ring. We feed them in a pan out there somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:40

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I like that. One thing every club should start doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:45

Fun matches.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

Yeah, fun matches are fun. Nice. I would add on to that one and say, like promotions, like using social media, promoting. I mean, there's so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:56

There's so much. Yeah. But my gut reaction fun matches. Every single parent club should start training AI. So there you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

Ooh. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:06

Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

That's right. So if you know any board members of your parent club, start putting in requests to start training AI. You know, 100%. All right. Thanks for joining us, Laura. We really appreciate you taking time out of your day to come join us. We uh we owe you one. I know Dale's been on your podcast a couple times, but this is this is payback.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:27

So, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

Yeah. To get to get a little time with the dog mother. I mean, this is this is awesome. Just awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:33

Anti-Laura. We have to be consistent. Auntie Laura.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

I know. There we go. Oh my gosh. All right. Thank you everybody for joining this episode of the Tag Box Podcast. We will talk to you guys all next week. Have a great rest of your day. Bye bye now.