She Built a Brand by Finally Being Herself w/ Jacquelynn Pilcher

You can build a brand that looks polished online and still feel completely disconnected from yourself behind the scenes.

In this episode, Jacquelynn Pilcher opens up about the years she spent trying to fit into the online business world, constantly reinventing herself, chasing success, and struggling to figure out who she actually was underneath it all. From growing up in survival mode to navigating mental health challenges, chronic illness, comparison, and burnout, she shares how those experiences shaped the way she built her business and why authenticity eventually became non-negotiable.

This conversation goes far beyond personal branding. We talk about the pressure to perform online, the exhaustion that comes from trying to keep up with everyone else, and the moment Jacquelynn realized she did not want to build a business around who she thought she needed to be. She also shares how storytelling became one of her greatest strengths and how everything started to shift once she stopped performing for approval and finally built a brand rooted in who she actually is.

So, if you have been feeling disconnected from your business, exhausted from trying to keep up online, or unsure how to fully show up as yourself, this conversation will remind you that the strongest brands are built when you stop performing and start owning who you really are. 

Chapters:

00:40 Jacquelynn’s story and personal evolution

05:40 Growing up in survival mode

09:20 Side hustles and early entrepreneurship

12:40 Starting coaching during COVID

16:40 Realizing success still did not feel aligned 

20:40 Learning to stop comparing herself

24:40 Detaching from money and outcomes

28:40 Why honesty changed her business

32:40 Feeling exhausted by online business culture

36:40 The lack of support in coaching spaces

40:40 Why personal branding matters now

44:40 How storytelling became her biggest strength

49:40 Why messaging is really about clarity

57:40 The advice she would give herself today 

Connect with Jacquelynn:

Instagram: @evolvewithjacquelynn

Just Women Talking Shit Podcast: https://justwomentalkingshit.buzzsprout.com/

Let’s Stay Connected:
→ Follow Lauren on Instagram: www.instagram.com/laurennajar
→ Learn more or work with me: www.laurennajar.com
→ Follow Business Over Cocktails on IG: www.instagram.com/businessovercocktails
→ Attend Growth & Connect retreats & events: www.instagram.com/growthandconnect

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hey there, and welcome to Business Over Cocktails. I'm Laura Najar, your host and hype woman, bringing you real talk about entrepreneurship. This is the podcast where we dive into the bold whys, the messy middles, and the game-changing aha moments that lead to success. You'll hear unfiltered stories from entrepreneurs plus bite-sized solo episodes inside the Business Chaser series, where we cut through the noise and get straight to what actually drives sales, visibility, and growth. So whether you're here to get fired up or finally feel seen in your business journey, pull up a seat, pour your favorite drink, and let's have a real conversation. Hey everyone, welcome back to Business Over Cocktails, the podcast where we mix real stories with bold business moves. I'm your host, Lauren Ajar, and today's guest is someone who shows up with serious heart, purpose, and a whole lot of fire. I want to add spunk in there as well. Jacqueline Cotton is a creative force, a multi-passionate entrepreneur, and one of those people who just gets it when it comes to building a business that feels aligned. In this episode, we're talking about the pivots she's made, how she's owned her evolution, and what it actually looks like to grow a brand that's rooted in both strategy and soul. We're going deep into her story today, what shaped her and the magic behind how she shows up online. This one's real, raw, and inspiring. So grab your drink, let's get comfy and let's dive in. So thank you, Jacqueline, for being here. And I just want to say a lot of that intro, like when I say the word story and your evolution and your pivots, like those are such loaded words, I feel when it comes to your story that I had the pleasure of not only witnessing it over the last four years and especially over the last two years, but I feel when you came to Chicago and we hung out and I got to spend three days with you, I learned way more, so much more about you. And I just feel like your story is one that needs to be told. And I know that you don't have an issue with sharing your story. You are very open on your socials, but I think it just needs to get out there more. And there are so many lessons, so many lessons you can teach people. And I feel like you've been through it and you've definitely like have come out on the other side. And I hope you know that. Like I hope you reflect on that, and I think you do. But just like where you were two years ago, three years ago, four years ago, like even just one year ago, it's so unrecognizable.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

First off, there are a couple of moments I almost you're gonna make me cry as a point. We are literally in two minutes in. I know, but it's just it's always so weird to hear somebody that like you respect and you admire and you feel those things about. And then it's reciprocated. And like I feel like in podcast episodes, especially when you have to sit down and write out an introduction, like those are things that maybe I didn't I honestly didn't know you felt about me. And so it was just really like it chokes you up a little bit because oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

I feel like soul, I just want to say to you, like soul. Like, I don't think I could say that with anybody because anybody else that I know. You're I can't look at you. Don't look at me, just but like, okay, so we'll get into this. And I don't want to like, I want you to talk about yourself, but I just want to say that you have like a beautiful voice as well. And you have shared that you sing and you play guitar and like you've been in music on and off for a good part of your life. And when you hear yourself sing, like, even just like when you think of genres and things like that, like it does have a lot of soul behind it. And so I think like soul is like such a good word for you, like, regardless if it's business or yourself or all of these other things. Like, you sound and everything you do is very soulful. Like, I don't think I could, I'm not gonna explain that for myself. Like, that's not a word I would resonate with, or like, like, I'm not soulful. Like you have this like quiet spirituality about you and you embrace it. But I think that if I look at your brand, that's what I would say about you as well, is that it's so soulful and like I can't explain it more, but like other than the word soulful and spiritual, but not in a way where you're also ignoring the fact that you've been through a lot of stuff and things aren't easy and flowy. So you definitely mirror those things of like taking action, but then like being soulful about it, and like you have mastered that way of mirroring those two things together. Because I think a lot of times people, in my experience, I feel that there are some spiritual people out there who just want it to be flowy and just like they don't want to do work and action. Like you have both sides and you do them very well. So well, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Thank you so much. I just, yeah, it all it takes, it just I get, I guess, set back for a second because and maybe that is the word that describes me as soulful, but it all kind of goes back to how I see myself and I don't ever want anyone to be around me and like my presence make them uncomfortable, or you know, some people my quietness makes them super uncomfortable. And I've had to sit back and kind of reflect on that for very like so many years. Like, why does that make people uncomfortable? And so what you're talking about is just a lot of introspection, but also like looking out and being able to see, you know, the effect that others have on me and that I have on others, and it's probably has a lot to do with some of the things I talked about in Chicago, which is just how I was brought up, you know, and it was, I'll get super emotional around this topic. But when you grow up in an environment where, you know, it's super religious, toxic, and then just a lot of passive aggressiveness and narcissism, you have no choice but to kind of just sit back and figure out how to adjust with the energy and with the world. And I think that's why I'm so good at what it is that I do, which is in essence just like you mentioned the personal evolution. You can't really put a label on what it is I do, I've noticed. And I want to probably, you know, part of me wants to blame that on having to be a human chameleon, having to figure out how to adjust to the people in the room based on how I was brought up and the kind of people I was around and raised by. But if I want to, you know, say, oh, well, that's actually working in my favor, I would say it makes me so good at what I do. And that's I'm able to adapt and adjust and help people based on where they are, whether that's in business or life. And it all goes back to that personal evolution that you just mentioned, which I find it so interesting that people, I mean, I guess if I stop and think about people I respect, you know, I could describe them that way too. Like, oh man, I really respect how genuine they are, how it really seems like who they are online is who they're, I mean, who they are offline too, but it's still, you can hear it in my voice. Like I get really emotional and shaky about it because I'm like, oh my God, people actually see me the way that I want to be seeing. And that in itself is such a huge, I think, life accomplishment because what I found and what you probably find too in this coaching industry is that you start in the industry, whether you know, you want to be a coach, some other kind of entrepreneur, a healer, whatever, you set out because you don't want to be like everybody else, but then you get into the industry and you wind up acting and being like everybody else, and you you go through the same trends and the marketing gimmicks and like everything. And so it's always so interesting to hear that, oh God, okay, people actually see me as authentic and soulful and it just feels really good. It just feels really good. Thank you for giving me all those compliments. The little girl, like the tiny person in me, the you know, my younger self is just like all over the place because I was not what you see now. I was so different. I was so afraid to use my voice. You know, you mentioned that. I was terrified. It still shakes when I speak, but I I'm gonna use it anyway because I've found that so many of us, especially that look to the internet, are just looking for somebody who can give them validation in what they're feeling and going through. And, you know, I feature a lot of the stuff people don't talk about, like mental health. You know, when business does get hard, I'm real quick to say, I'm not making any fucking money. And I know why, you know, but yeah, that's kind of where I'm at with everything. And it just, it's still, I'm I'm still shaking because I'm like, oh my God. I thought it was I thought people are looking at my social media like, ooh, these bitches all over the place. But maybe everybody's all over the place, and so maybe it's kind of refreshing.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

So you are dropping the word evolution a lot, and so I want to explore that a little bit more. You've gone through a lot of evolutions, and and I feel like evolution can be such a big word. So maybe pivot is a better word for this and and for this question, but you've had some major evolutions, you've pivoted a lot, even when we've worked together like over the last couple of years. But can you walk us through one of the biggest pivots you've made and why you made that or what led to that big pivot? Are we talking about business? Business.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Okay. So well, I feel like I started out like a lot of people, and that was just job after job after job, right? Hated every single job. I would start with this, like, oh, I love it, and oh, this is supposed to be great. But every job I got into, I just I really disliked. And I always felt smarter than my boss. And then the people I worked with, and this is probably this is very gossipy of me, but I've come a long way. Goes back to that evolution, right? So I would throughout all these jobs, throughout my teenage years, throughout, I've always had something like a side hustle, right? Whether I'm like buying cheap, you know, like 0.925 sterling silver rings and hustling those on the streets, or whether I am, you know, for a little while I was making freaking cinnamon rolls. I've always found something to do. And so there's always been like some kind of side hustle. But when it comes to, I guess, business evolution, business pivots, since you've known me, I've had a few pivots. And it goes back to I think just trying to figure out what I've been best at. And it all winds up coming like back full circle, which has been very interesting. But I think when you met me, I was I was in the beginning of my coaching, in the very beginning, and I was creating content, and I still do both. But I I started with this idea that I had to be very general. Like I needed everybody to want what I have, right? So I went the the live coaching route, you know, and I was very excited about the fact that I didn't have to have any certifications and all those things. Now, before that, which what I think kind of prepped me for the ability to do outreach and market myself and stuff like that, is MLMs, network marketing, you know, things that I would do whenever I was like working at the daycare or waiting table, stuff like that, with this really strong drive and desire to, I never want to work a nine to five. So those gave me like some skills to use later on. But when I decided I wanted to coach, it was around the same time I started my podcast, Just Women Talking Shit. And it was right in the middle of like some shutdowns, the big old, you know, y'all know, COVID shutdowns. And so I went the life coaching route. I had my first workshop. It was called Whole Soul. It's funny you said the soul thing. Yeah. And the idea was to allow people this insight on how to tap into like your whole self, like whatever that looks like, and accepting you as a soul being. And I didn't know what was gonna come of it. So I was very nervous about it, but I did this free workshop and it went like two and a half hours or something. And that kind of gave me some confidence. I got really good feedback, right? And from there, I just kind of was throwing stuff at a wall, hoping it would stick. And I worked with, I worked with one coach, which gave me confidence on like what a container looked like, right? Seeing it built out stuff like that. And I, but I still couldn't figure out like how this was ever gonna play out for me. So I did the live coaching thing for a little bit. And then I worked with another coach who was really big into marketing. And she identified very quickly that I'm really great with marketing, with writing, copywriting, things of that nature. So she was like, I'm gonna teach you all this stuff. And it's almost like I need and want someone to pass the torch on to. So I was like, okay, I'll do it. And I did that, and I had what I would consider or on paper looked like a really great launch. I created this program called Magnetic Marketing Academy. And I took a lot of what I learned from her, and then I took my energy and all my wisdom, and I created this program. On paper, it looked great. I was like, I had a $25,000 launch. That was all sales. I extended this stuff for like two years to some of these people. So it really wasn't that much money when you like really stop and look at it. But I was so proud of myself. And here's the thing that a lot of people do and want to knit to is in the middle of that, I learned exactly how I didn't want to do it. And I'd realized really quickly I hate launches, I hate all this. And so I did what a lot of people do, and that's like pull back silently. And from there, it's just been kind of like figuring out what I really, really, like, really love. And it didn't really start coming together until I started working with you. Because you gave me this perception and this new like perspective that like we're just collecting data, you know, it's all feedback. And so since then, I have really honed in on, well, let me backtrack. We went back to like the life, life, I called it life and business because I have a really hard time deciding. And I thought that was a bad thing, but it turns out it's not a bad thing. It's okay. I don't know why we get so tripped up on I gotta be called one thing, right? So I focused on just like building myself as a brand. And that was called spiritual support system. And I still have that community. And I I think about bringing it back all the time because it's still there. But from there, I really decided that I can't keep going back and forth as far as a brand, because how will I ever be known for something? And so I realized in one of my most recent pivots, which you've seen, I've like really pulled back and I've been doing a lot of reflecting and going back to it's not even about the money. I thought it was about the money, you know, there was a brief amount of time where I was like bringing in what I considered a lot of cash at once. And I still felt ah. And so right now, the pivot has been from spiritual support system to we are focusing on building businesses, not just for myself, but for other people, taking their mental health into account, everything I've learned about creating systems and really tying in my expertise of magnetic marketing, which is a lot through content creation and capturing that authentic energy, right? Instead of being a carbon copy and just following trends. That's the main thing right now for me is just owning the fact that I don't have it all figured out. But what I'm really good at is you come to me with an idea and you're like, I don't fucking know where to start. I'm like, oh my God, I see the whole picture and I can make you a list. So I call myself a visionary strategist. And my goal is to elevate brands, entrepreneurs, you know, companies that want to, in my mind, get paid to exist. And that's kind of where I'm at right now because I've got a lot of mental health things going on in the background that make it so that I have to have a certain kind of routine, but also need some leniency because I have really bad mental health days. And so I'm focused on building, you know, a company and culture and helping other people do that in a sustainable way because I think that mental health and, you know, this whole how hard we have to work for it actually isn't as aligned as it used to be. So that's kind of where we're at right now is just building Jacqueline Cotton as a brand, building, you know, my podcast and focusing on the things that really make me happy that don't feel as much like work. So I can scale that because if I'm having fun doing it, it's it's more likely to keep my attention. And that's big for me. Keeping my attention is really big and hard to do.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yeah, I think, you know, I won't share coaching calls and things like that, but I think that's the thing that I've wanted for you for so long. And you've had moments of that, I think, in your journey where you own the fact of like what you can and can't do, right? And what you do very well. And I think that you've especially like your last photo shoot and around the time that you took pictures for that, like I feel like that was like a little glimmer of you're finally coming out more. And I share a similar story, like you do, right? Like where when we start our businesses, we see what everyone else is doing and it seems successful, and we have to follow in line with what everyone else is deeming successful. And it's very easy to lose yourself. And I think that, you know, I talk a lot about how in 2019 or 2020 I hit burnout and then I was making maybe like 25 bucks a month, or you know, I really wasn't wanting to try and like get more sales, and like I was just I had like a low-cost membership. And so I never gave up on my business, but I I definitely lost myself in the first like six months of my business because I was doing so many things that everyone else was telling me to do that I really didn't have the confidence or the willpower to say, like, no, I actually know a lot more than I'm giving myself credit for. Like, I have 10 years, maybe even more, of sales experience at that point. I knew how to make sales. I was always very good at sales in my corporate job, but I did it in a way where I was having conversations. And so when I finally had that light bulb moment of like, I do building relationships better than anyone out here, and I know how to do it in a revenue-focused way that I know as soon as I started owning that, that's when my business started to grow exponentially. But then I also think too, like now, like as business has evolved and how influencer marketing or the creator economy has evolved, like a lot of us who are building businesses online, more and more people want to know more and more about us. And so then it has become this evolution of, you know, to be successful, you have to have a personal brand. And that's something that a lot of people say, and that's something I actually agree with because, you know, if you go to an Instagram profile now and someone isn't using their face as a profile picture and they have just like all these like Canva created graphics and they're not showing themselves, it looks like spam now. Even if it's the most beautiful graphics, even if it's the most like AI perfect generated stuff, like that looks spammy now. We don't trust that. We trust someone who's gonna show their face. We trust someone who's gonna share about their lives. And it's interesting because it was like last, I think it was last week or the week before. I did a series of story polls where I'm like, here's all the things that I want feedback from you. People were like, I want to know who you're working with, I want to know your mentors, I want to know what you're doing for personal development, I want to know a day in the life of what you're doing. And I'm like, okay, like I guess I gotta create all this. And so I think like, so just and then back to you, like this is such a good turning point for you because like it's so easy to see people generating thousands and thousands of dollars, and like they make it look so easy. I want that for myself, and that's great, but then like you don't, and this is just in general sense as well. Like, that's what happens when we compare, and we just like immediately think that we are not good enough because we're not making it work as easy as that person seems like it's working, but we have to own the fact of like what we do really well, we have to own our confidence and that what we bring to the table is so special. And so I'm just happy to hear. And I love the new direction of your business, of course. I tell people that all the time. It's like, you know, when we have these social media profiles or platforms, it's how do we create a destination? It's not just come look at my stuff, it's how can I experience you? And, you know, I'm very good at what I do, and I could be like on the surface, very masculine in the sense of numbers and feedback and data and like all of that's important. But what I want to be known for. Is where people can come and be themselves. And I am very good at building relationships. And so that's the center and the core value of my business. So like when you lead with values and what you're about and what you stand for, you know, we we say all the time, like, what does Nike stand for? They have athletic clothes, but they are a world-renowned brand name. They represent strength and endurance and all of these other things. We think of Starbucks versus like Dunkin' Donuts or some of the low-end coffee shops. It's Starbucks represents high-end and maybe even a luxury thing because it they are expensive, more expensive than some of these other places. So that's kind of like we're getting into a branding topic now, but I'm just so glad to hear you say that. But I do have a question though. You kind of took us through your whole story. When you started your business to where you are now, what do you think are the three different things? Like versus where you were five years ago versus now.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

I think one of the biggest things is just accepting that I'm not. Just because I'm not where somebody else is, doesn't mean that I'm not far enough along. You mentioned the whole comparing yourself. And I was listening to a podcast earlier, Mel Robbins. I'm always listening to Mel Robbins. She's my favorite. And they were talking about, you know, this whole comparison to another person whenever, or maybe it was something else. I think it was actually my bipolar episode. Anyway, but how you can't compare yourself to anybody else because you never know, you know, what is actually going on. So I think that's why people enjoy my social media, is because my husband makes jokes all the time about, you know, what people share too much, or it's all fake. And I'm like, I genuinely think that people probably go to my page and like, man, I feel like, you know, she's being genuine. And so that's been a big thing for me is being able to not compare myself and what's performing well for somebody else versus what's performing well for me. And that goes back to like the pivots. You know, you get that shiny object syndrome where I can think of some people that they use their sales to market a lot. Like that's their marketing is showing the numbers. And so somebody like me with an addictive personality and with a lot of, you know, insecurities would think, oh, well, I'm just in the wrong line of business. When the reality is, is that I just it wasn't owning what I was really good at. And I kept comparing myself and my success. So I think one of the biggest things that I'd do less of now versus back then is comparing myself to somebody else, you know, whether that's aesthetics, whether that's like money, whether that's however many people I got into my program, all those things. Another one would be detachment. Like, oh, I was coming at it in the beginning from just all angles of I gotta make some money, make some money now, you know. And I know that you've several times you've been like, Jaclyn, what are we working on this week? And I'm like, I need to make about $15,000, you know, just in case of this and this and this. And you're like, that sounds great, but like you should, if that's your goal, you should always be trying to do that, not just like right now. So being able to be honest with how attached I was to the outcome of money and being able to detach from that and really focus on, I would say, the grander scale, which is like you were saying, building that brand. And so I've got in my mind now that I'm not ever going to be that person that markets how much I've made. Because I've started to realize that people that do make a lot of money, they don't fucking talk about the money they make. Like that's kind of like sticking a target on your back. You know what I mean? Like, so I'm understanding that now from this level of detachment that's like, no, we're here to build a brand. And I think that people will be able to identify your core values and how successful successful your brand is based on how you show up. Like, we don't have to be coming at it from this scarcity, like gotta make sales, gotta do this, gotta appear this way. So being able to be detached and knowing that I'm not behind has been a really big thing for me because I do have, you know, the mental health issues and chronic illness and stuff like that, and then just CPTSD. So it's really easy to get caught up in I'm not doing enough, I'm not far enough ahead. And then you look online and I could be looking at you, and I'm like, God, Lauren's so much further ahead. And I've got to be able to go, whoa, bitch, different ball game entirely. She's doing something completely different than you. You know, she's got different habits, et cetera. So having that level of detachment. And then I think the third thing would be just pure honesty, like rational honesty. And in the beginning, I was like real quick to come up with excuses, excuses as to why I wasn't doing well, as to why I wasn't making money, as to why, why, why, why, why. Like I specifically remember this point in time where I bought, it was on my first investments, and it was only $40 a month investment. For 10 months, it was $400. But again, scarcity, lack, attachment. I remember when I wasn't getting the results I wanted from this program. And I remember sending her a nasty email thinking her team will get it. She'll never read it, wanting my money back. And I had to, in that moment, after she as she finally brought me back and was like, you're going through something. Cause she knew me kind of on a personal level. And I had to get really honest with like, why? Why is this not working? Why am I not further along? Why, why, why? And that amount of like radical honesty, which was Jacqueline, you're actually not invested the way you think you are. You're not doing the daily actions, you're not doing this. It's totally your fault. Like that really shook shit up for me because I came from a family that couldn't take responsibility for their actions, blamed everybody for their problems, while they're not far enough along in life, like the world happened to them kind of bullshit. And I carried that over in business. And of course, I couldn't be successful with that mindset in general. So those three things I think have really shifted for me throughout the years.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

I think that's also important. I think I would also add, like admitting that you don't have all the answers. And I think that you've always you and maybe I think that we share that in common. But I think for me, I resonate a lot with what you're saying because it took me a while to just admit that I wasn't the smartest in the room, but that's okay. And it's okay to ask for help because that was my upbringing. But I also feel like when you're building a business, you need the support and you need the people around you, even to like have people just keep you accountable and to call you out, like you just kind of said. And that's why relationships, of course, building them along the way is so important as well. So, out of like your whole business journey, how many times have you wanted to quit?

SPEAKER_01 29:13

I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many times I generally don't know. A lot of that has to do with just, you know, my upbringing. Like if things aren't working fast enough. But I generally don't know, Lauren, too many times to count. But we're still here. We're still here winging it.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Exactly right. Like, I think that it's normal and natural to want to quit your business, especially when things just aren't going your way and there's a lot of resistance. And I can honestly say there's probably moments where I wish that I didn't have this like dream or vision in my heart or in my head, and I could just be like a normal person and just have a normal nine to five and come home and watch TV and be with my daughter and and not want to travel and not want to be going to these events, and I'm creating like all of these new businesses and now this podcast, and I just feel like, why am I wanting to do this? And sometimes I feel like, why can't I just be normal?

SPEAKER_01 30:12

I know what you mean. I totally know what you mean. Like ignorance is bliss kind of thing. Like I was talking to my husband the other day. I was like, I wish, and you probably wish. You don't have to say it out loud. Actually, don't say it out loud, but I bet you wish I was more normal when it comes to stuff like that, you know, because being an entrepreneur is the most costly hobby, habit, addiction, dream. Like it just, it's nobody is here to really support you when it comes down to it. Like, for instance, I hired support from you and I've hired other support, but I told him, you know, because and I want to preface this with when I have conversations, I literally preface my conversation before I have it because I don't want anyone to ever take offense to what I say. But I told him that it really feels like there are just people who, and it's not a knock at all on the these people, but there are people who are worker bees and they thrive on that, just working and then going home and like you said, going and sitting down and and doing what I consider like the mundane. Not that my kids are mundane, but I thrive on adventure. I thrive on those kind of in the pressure moments, like where I say I don't want them, but I'm like, oh my God, you're a badass bitch. You just did that. I can't help it. I genuinely can't help it, but I'd I resonate with that because all the time I'm just like, why can't I be normal? I cannot be one of those people that go and work at the same place for 50 years that I can't.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

It's so true. And I think the name of this podcast episode will be why can't I be normal with Jackie O'Wine? Authenticity Queen ass. So you talk about investments in hiring for support. What do you think is the best investment you've made in your business? You? No.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Well, thank you. Not shitting around, but no, it's been you. It really has. I know this was called, you know, the whole cocktail thing, but I had broth, and right at the end it was straight up green onions and garlic. So apologize about that if anybody heard me chewing. But no, it has been. It's been you because I remember a conversation whenever I was feeling, and I feel like a lot of people, especially since you're gonna have entrepreneurs and business owners listen to this, can resonate with this where you feel like, especially in the online space, you see people will literally flaunt, oh my God, I just spent a hundred thousand dollars on this coach, and oh, like going to my next level, blah, blah, bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

I've never heard sorry, I've never heard you use that voice before. No, that is like, I have never witnessed that before.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Oh, well, this is an exclusive, I guess. But it's just that's my like annoying, like uh, just boasting and like, I don't know. It it's and I'm guilty of that. I've done that. I mean, I've never spent that much money. I don't have that much money, but there are people who go around, you know, flaunting their investments and stuff. And so there have been several spots in my business where I felt like I had to be investing or I wasn't up-leveling type thing. And then, you know, when we were talking about our my pivots and going back and forth and trying to keep up and comparison and all that, what we've established in this episode is it's all a journey, not about the destination. But I remember thinking, I've got to do something. The last investment I made, the business coach, I wasn't crazy about it, didn't get a lot out of it. I made some great friends. That's about it. That's about it. But it was one of those investments where I was just like, What did I pay for? You know? So when I was going into making another, I was thinking about making another large investment. I'll just never forget the call and the pressure and everything that came with it. And you at that point were a friend of mine who I had written some content for through your agency. And at that point, there was just like such a level of trust that I genuinely was like, what do you think about this? Does this sound legit? Do you think that this is a good investment? And it was the conversation I had with you and how real you were about it. Like, I kind of think this is all bells and whistles, Jaclyn. Like, I don't know that no, I just, and then I got an email from you, which it was never pressure, but I was just like, oh, it felt like a sign. And then it was way more affordable, which I'm not saying you're cheap, but I'm saying I was smoking mirrors, like out of that desperation, trying to, if I make this investment, I'll make the money. Like, because that's what the internet sells you, is like flow and make the investment and release the money and it'll come back in tenfold. And so I'm like really fucking confused. And then I started working with you, and I think it's my by far the best investment because I got my podcast off the ground. I've been more consistent than ever, even though it doesn't look like it. My confidence has gone through the roof. I've gotten a great friend. I got the opportunity to come see you in Chicago. Like these are things that I feel like you can't put a price tag on, you know?

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Well, I appreciate you saying that. And I'm having goosebumps over here and tears in my eyes. But it's so interesting, because I forget that conversation either. And I don't know if I can say like I don't easily forget conversations, and I'm not saying like this was a super memorable conversation. Maybe you've you've definitely mentioned it to me before. So I was already living in this house. We had just moved here like a few months prior, and I remember going for a walk around the neighborhood, and I know exactly where I was when I was voice messaging you. How we're weird. Yeah. And I remember the conversation, I remember just being open and honest with you about that investment, and then maybe like even I think we even talked about like the payment plans and situations and things like that too. And I think like if I were to toot my own horn, like I that's how I kind of am with everybody. Yes, like I obviously share a lot more with you, and we we have different conversations in somebody I don't really know. But I feel like that's what's missing in selling, and that's what's missing in this industry, is like people will say that they build relationships or that they like, oh, I build relationships and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But there's always like this invisible boundary that for whatever reason you can't cross. And something, and actually, I'm thinking of something now that I want to mention. You have also like thanked me and have shared this on your socials about like, I think I was sharing your content or I was sharing something, or I was just like promoting you essentially. I and I forget why I was doing that. But I and I do that all the time. I will randomly say, like, join my client's masterclass or whatever. And you made a comment on your Instagram stories that was like, why don't more coaches share their clients and or share their clients' content? And it was like both. And I'm like, man, you know what? Like, I have felt that so much as well. And I've been in masterminds and group programs where I get a really great experience from the coach and I've made like long-lasting friends, but I've I have always felt like that person who is never like it's not about like being teacher's pet or about be it, it just because I wasn't having these huge wins or these huge money wins at the time of like these programs or these masterminds I was in, like I was never promoted. I like didn't have the opportunity to lead a workshop. And it just really like shakes your confidence. And I was I was having success, but then there was other people in that group that were like scaling, like, you know, $100,000 a month. And that was just like beyond anything I could even fathom. And I never was shared, like my messages were never shared, my wins were never shared when other people's were. And so that's the kind of mindset I have. Like, and I do feel like I've always grown up to be like I'm always the underdog. I'm never the one who is like the top of the top. And not that I want to be, but I've always had to fight tooth and nail to be recognized for the hard work that I'm doing. And there's a lot that we can unpack there with hard work equal success and all those other things, but we will that's another episode. But yeah, like, and I'm thankful that you said that and thankful that you share that because even as I'm making the rounds here locally in Northwest Indiana, I'm getting a lot of those compliments as well. Where people have worked with other business coaches or other marketing agencies, and they are a business coach or a marketing agency themselves, and they come to me and they're like, Oh, I didn't realize you worked with other marketing agencies because the experience that I've had is they will only get you so far. And when the client starts having success, the coach stops coaching you. And I've gotten that so much in the last six months. I've gotten so many compliments about like the dinners or the events I'm hosting because people just like have never had good relationships and these kinds of things or networking things, but they feel safe here. And so I appreciate you saying that and I appreciate you sharing that on your Instagram stories because I'm trying to do that, and I regularly want to hire my clients to work with my clients. And like I've even talked about you like joining me to be like a messaging expert or something too. I don't feel there's ever competition. There is you, what you do, and what I do. And even if we're both called business coaches, we are both completely different people, and we know full well that someone's gonna resonate with you more than they're gonna resonate with me, and vice versa. And I build relationships differently, you build relationships differently, you have different stories. And so I feel like it's just so interesting to me when there's such a lack of abundance mindset, regardless of how much money you are making. Like it's never enough for some of these people. And I could be making, like, you know, I could have a $20,000 year and I wouldn't change my mind. You know, like I would make say I made a thousand dollars in a month total, like sales even. I would not change how I think about competition. Because if you give that power to competition or you give that power to the lack mindset, like you're never gonna have the success.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

But it takes sometimes a long time for people to figure that out, you know? It goes back to like just I guess your mentality and what success is. And then what I've noticed in you lately is you are your competition. Hmm. You're competing hard with yourself, and I love that. But I've never gotten the vibe that you would take anything from anybody else or try to like, what is it they call fish for clients or anything like that, which is another reason that I think so many people do enjoy working with you because they feel included and they do feel that there's enough to go around when they're around you, which if you can relay that to somebody and they believe that, everybody's gonna benefit from that. Because we, like you said, we're different people. You called me soulful, said you don't identify with soulful. I think of you as like very giving and compassionate, and but I might come off as very like dependent on the day, dependent on the personality, I could be tough love one day, and then the next day people are like, oh my God, she's the sweetest thing, and just like a little old grandma. So it's just everybody's gonna resonate so differently with you. What is the point in acting like there's competition outside of yourself? So I like that you mention all that. But no, yeah, you're kind of a big deal in my world.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Okay, I can be a big deal in your world. I'll take that.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

I struggle so bad with me. Because I'll like I all the time. I'm like, you're a mate. And she's just like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

I know, and and totally like, and to be completely honest, I know I need to own that more and I need to own that better. And I am actively working on that because like I literally had to talk to my therapist about this. Like, I take, like, I hear people give me compliments all the time, but it literally is like a shield and it just bounces off of me. But if it's someone that like either I respect or like look up to, or not even that, but someone I'm like wanting the love from, that's the only people I would accept compliments from. And so I'm literally learning actively as we're like going through life right now, is like I need the self-validation first, then to believe all of those compliments. I don't like talking about this because of course it's uncomfortable for me, but I do get a lot of compliments. I get a lot of feedback. The dinner I hosted in February was amazing, and I have to own that, and I know it was elevated, and I know it was very good for a lot of people, and a lot of people gave me compliments on it and had a very good experience. No one left, everyone came. Like, I had to kick people out of the room. We were there like an hour and a half past our time. Like, it was so good. And I know that I provide good experiences and then in a good vibe, and I accept people, and even the testimonials I get, it says like, you make me feel seen or you listen to me without judgment, and I know I do that, but I have to start absorbing them better. So I'm actually working on that.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Yeah, and it can it can be hard. It's hard to like when you gave me all those compliments earlier. I was like, I'm just gonna shut down now. I don't rocky start because it's just yeah, people see you differently than. You see yourself sometimes, or they say the things that you've always wanted to hear, and then you're like, uh, didn't rehearse for how I was gonna receive that. So it could be super uncomfortable. I get that.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

So we've already talked about your emotional mental health, how you manage that, and you're working through that, and you are very open about that on your on your Instagram stories specifically. And it's great. And I know that you're very open about mental health and having a mental health day and being open with your audience. But there's one thing that you do so beautifully as well. I don't want you to tell me. And I think this has always been a theme, and that you are finally now owning it, and that is that you are very good at messaging. And that's why anytime you've brought back your magnetic messaging like material, like your the you mentioned the academy a few years ago that you had that was really successful. I know in the last year you've pivoted back to that. You have also now you're kind of doing it almost like a content thing where you're having the messaging and like the plan, but then you're also capturing content, which it's so beautiful to see. So I think it all goes together. But I don't know if I want to know your process behind it. I want to know why you think you do it well.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

I do it well because I'm a great storyteller, you know. I know we haven't really talked about my childhood much, so I'm gonna be very brief with that. But one thing I learned growing up was how to tell a story for a few reasons. I come from like some outlaws, y'all. Okay. When you think like Dixie, Mississippi, out of a country song, it's pretty much where I'm from. And we we moved around a bunch, got evicted a bunch before we landed in Dixie. And and I again, this sounds like a made-up country song. I'm fully fucking aware, but this was my life. So come from, you know, a lot of drug addicts, alcoholics, domestic violence. We can go as far to say incest. So I was put in situations where I had to cover for people, talk myself out of getting in trouble. Like I would have to cover for my parents. So I got really good at telling stories. But then there's a deeper level of, you know, I was the oldest of six kids. And so I'd have to come up with excuses. Oh, well, why is so-and-so not home? Or, you know, if it came down to food, we didn't have enough groceries. Like you have to be able to tell a story to entertain the little ones. And so I just got really good at telling stories. And it wasn't that I liked to lie. Some situations I definitely had to lie to protect myself, but it was like being able to make the best of each situation. So there's that. And then I come from a time, this is gonna date me a little bit, where when I was dating, when I so I had my first boy. Wait, hold on. You're dating yourself. I'm older than you. So I know you are, but you're not that much older than me. But when I say what I'm about to say, you'll be like, oh shit, Jacqueline, you dated us both. But I remember wanting to take a lot of pictures, right? Let's just say that my first electronic I ever got, I found outside of a right aid, and it was a beeper, and nobody claimed it. And so I was like, I'm gonna wear this motherfucking beeper. After that, when I started getting, you know, like I wanted to document, I was always that person, which everybody laughed at me, but I would take pictures of my food. I loved to cook. I love, you know, I love nature, and I didn't have like the pictures and stuff to look back on. A lot of stuff got burnt up in a fire. Like there was all, there were all these things. I had no memories to really look back on for myself. So I got into this habit of I would take my money, my allowance money, or let's be real. I didn't get allowance money. I started my own businesses. I would babysit and I would clean houses, do anything I could for money. And I would take my money and I would go and buy disposable cameras. So it started there. I would take pictures of everything. And I'd have my boyfriend take me up to Walmart and I would, you know, I'd drop them off and come back in a week or whatever and get my pictures, and I started storytelling that way. And I had scrapbooks, stuff like that. But then when I, you know, I was already dabbling in the internet, talking to people, trying to escape my own reality because I had a really hard life at home. And so when my brothers and sisters were down, I'd like get in chat rooms and stuff like that, got really good at telling stories there, you know, painting this persona of who I wasn't who, I guess who I wanted to appear to be. And it was not this girl taking care of a bunch of kids, skipping school and covering for her parents while they were out doing the fun stuff. So I lived in this kind of fantasy world. And then just as time went on, you know, my space, Facebook, and then I got into marketing and stuff. In college, I I went briefly for film production and I learned, you know, about storyboarding and stuff like that. I took like all this life experience, all this wanting to shift identities pretty much and reinvent myself. And then like the knowledge from marketing and ways of making money and stuff, and they just all started coming together, especially with this podcast, learning how to effectively tell a story. Like it ties into everything I want to do. Public speaking, comedy, you know, I'm writing my own comedy skit, and I plan on debuting that at some point really this year's was be when I did it. So we got until December 2025. That's my goal. But like all the things I want to do, I eventually want to, I'd like to become an actor. There's just so much I want to do. I write music, you know, I perform, I write, I play guitar, I play piano, I write lyrics, etc. So it all just, it's just really, I think, deeply ingrained in who I am. And it may go as far back as like Native American days, you know, them sitting around telling stories and smoking their peace pipe. Like, I don't know. But I've just, it started, I think, as a genuine like escape from reality, the writing. And so when it comes to messaging, what I didn't realize was that messaging, I I've realized this since then, but like messaging in general is just telling a very clear story. Like, that's all it is, telling a super clear story on about a third to fifth grade reading level. And that in itself is genius marketing, because if a fifth grader can understand it, the consumer mind will eat it up.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

But yeah, a lot, a lot went into it.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Well, no, and that's why I didn't want to ask about your process. I wanted to just ask why you think you're good at it, because I can't articulate sometimes how to build a relationship. I can systemize it. And I'm I know that I'm a good teacher with that, but I cannot. Like that is the million dollar question I get all of the time. And the answer is well, just be yourself and how do you build a relationship, right? I cannot systemize that for you because I don't know how you build relationships. I don't know you on that level. Yeah. And I can't articulate that any better than that, right? But I know I just have a gift of being able to do that effortlessly, and it's something I can do 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It does not tire me out. And I know and I've come to realize that it does tire people out. And so, like, I think when we have that special gift, like you do with messaging and bringing that messaging out of people, being able to tell a story, like it is near impossible for you to say step one, step two, step three, step four. And you just have to going back to how you called yourself a visionary, like that's what that is. Like, I'm a visionary when it comes to building relationships and doing it that way, or having the gift of being able to have a sales conversation that doesn't feel pushy and effortless. Again, I'm not about scripts. I can't give you a script, I can give you a very loose outline. However, the only way I can do is I can teach you how to have those conversations in your own way, in your own words. There is not a script I can give you that is going to articulate or give you how I do it. And I think like sometimes there's this pressure to have this methodology and all these things, and like, yes, I can do that. But there's also this push of like, why don't we recognize our gifts and we're just good at something? And no one's ever gonna learn it how good we are. And that's like what we can do to really like again own our confidence, have that self-validation of like, no, I'm good at this. I'm good at this.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

And no one is as good as me. I like that. I just realized in telling you all that, I forgot that you would ask me that question. But, you know, if we're getting like real general about things and speaking back to your listeners, realizing that I'm good at that, it took a long time to realize that. And I think that it's a lot simpler sitting here telling you why I'm good at why I'm good at messaging and yeah, it's storytelling and having to lie for people and come up with stories. Just want to tell the person that's listening, like to give yourself grace. But look back and think about the things that you've been really good at in life. And there's probably a common theme. So, like mine runs deep in the storytelling, yes. But then I think back and I'm like, man, in Mrs. Drinkwine's class, like I rocked that poetry contest and I and like there just all these this evidence along the way of things that I was good at, and it winds up being writing. So, and and then being okay with owning that. Like you said, you can own the shit out of, I'm really good at writing, I'm really good at messaging, I'm really good at building relationships, but not seeing that as a threat to anybody else, like staying in your own lane and kind of competing with yourself. And it it took a lot of realizing too, you know, what I wasn't good at. I think so many people are afraid to just try it, you know, start the business, try dancing and just figuring out I don't fucking like that. Like I just don't like it. I've always able to go, like, what was I good at in that situation? And if it's nothing, goes back to that radical honesty, like, oh, I'm not good at that. That's cool. And when it comes to business, like when I find myself in those situations, you know, I've been in sales conversations like you, where I find out I'm not even a good fit for this person. And then all the relationship building and stuff like that, and being able to realize when I'm not good at something, like maybe you come to mind. So I send them your way. So I find it interesting how that all just came together.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Okay, so I wanna I have a few more questions for you.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Okay, I'll try to be quick.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Well, no, so this is gonna be rapid fire questions. Oh, okay. Then I'll so you are you are gonna be quick. And then I'll have a couple more questions for you. So, what's one non-negotiable in your business right now? Sales calls. I hate sales calls so much.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Yeah, just talk to me. Like, no, I just no, not doing it. There. That was the shortest I've ever answered. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

What's your go-to coffee order?

SPEAKER_01 55:11

Oh god. Okay. I forget what it's called. It's the brown sugar shake and espresso or something. Ooh, yeah, I like those from Starbucks. Yeah, but I just get it how it's made. Yes. Yep. So if I'm getting that, I'm gonna give you a different answer. Just because they're not available year-round. My go-to is gonna be a vanilla latte. Otherwise, yeah. If it's like a an annual or like that time of the year, I'm gonna get the shaken espresso, the brown sugar specifically.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Oh my god, vanilla lattes are always my go-to. I think we I think didn't we order both vanilla lattes when we had when I picked up Starbucks taking you to the airport? Probably, because it's like the safest bet. I love yeah. But if someone makes a vanilla latte wrong, it's just not great.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

It's it's a bad, bad coffee place to go with.

SPEAKER_00 56:01

Yeah. What's your go-to cocktail? Not light beer. What would you order from a restaurant or a cocktail bar?

SPEAKER_01 56:09

This is new for me, but since my rapid weight loss, I'm a rapid weight loss, I really enjoy just a good red wine. So like Pinot Grigio. No, not Grigio Noir, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 56:22

Pinot Noir. Pinot Noir is red. Pinot Grigio is white. The white, yeah. No, I like red.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

Told you I'm new to this. The red white has been what I've gotten recently, though, is Pinot Noir, because I'm gonna get anything.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

I love that. Didn't we get that at the steak place? We got Pinot Noir.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

Pretty sure. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 56:41

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

But it was delicious. No, I think it was so good because Pinot Noir is also my favorite, so. Mmm. Okay. Vanilla latte, Pinot Noir. All right. Kiko. What's one belief or rule in business that you've unapologetically broken other than sales calls?

SPEAKER_01 56:58

Appearing to have it all together. I'm definitely like when it comes to people know kind of what I'm going through when it comes to business. And I know a lot of people say, don't mix those two. Don't let people into your life. But it's a huge reason that people like working with me, because they feel like they can talk to me about anything. So I'm gonna like live by if you can't fix it, feature it.

SPEAKER_00 57:19

Ooh, there you go. That's a good note. I like that. That's a good saying. Hopefully the AI note taker picks up that as a quote.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

Because that's so good. Okay. I think I think that's from no Owen Holmes.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

So I have two more questions before we move on. To I guess close this episode. Okay. What advice would you give to the version of you who was just starting out?

SPEAKER_01 57:48

Oh God. She was so stubborn. She still is. Just own it. Like own your zone of genius, which is it's like just me. And just staying in your own lane. Like I was so easy getting distracted. And as you've seen, it comes full circle. Like I am the brand. I just am. It's my personality. It's people either either love me or they hate me. And I need to own that a lot sooner. Took me a long time to do that though.

SPEAKER_00 58:17

Yeah. And last but not least, we need to do a shameless plug, of course. Because it wouldn't be a real podcast without that. So where can people find you? Learn from you, and just learn about what you do and how you can help them.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

Okay. So if you were to just search my name, all kinds of weird stuff will pop. No, kidding. I'm not on Feetfinder, guys. But if you put my name in, you should be able to find, you know, things like my Instagram, but at Jacqueline Cotton is my main Instagram. You will find other ones based on my other projects, but most active at Jaclyn Cotton. And then my podcast is the big thing, just Women Talking Shit. If you want to go listen to that, that is like my main vested interest right now is building her up, taking her on the road, all those things. So Instagram and justwoman talking shit.com. And I think those are my only shameless plugs right now.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Well, Jacqueline, thank you. Thank you for this conversation. Thank you for talking about your story. And I know that again, like I reiterated earlier, you are open about your story. And if people do follow you, they will see you in real time. Whether it is you want to take a mental health day, you're talking about mental health, you're talking about what you're going through, on top of all the business things, right? You do such a fantastic job with storytelling. Thank you for bringing your story, your heart, your realness, all the things.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

And it's just so easy to talk to you. I appreciate that. It's been a long time in the making, Lauren. I wanted to say though, you know, for anybody listening, you're talking about being easy to talk to. That is one thing that I take a lot of pride in. My inbox is always, always open. So feel free to send me a message.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

So for you, the listener, I hope this chat reminded you that it's okay to evolve. It's okay to pivot, like at any point, at any time. How many times doesn't matter as long as you're getting to the end goal. But most importantly, it's okay to build a business that actually feels like you and finding yourself is a never-ending journey. If you're listening and feeling fired up, go connect with Jacqueline. You can search for her name and weird stuff will pop up, apparently. And check out everything she's doing. Trust me, you want to be in her world. If you feel like any of her story has resonated with you or any of the things we chatted about, you will feel seen and accepted in her world. So please go and follow her. So and don't forget, Jacqueline is coming back later this week for her Business Chaser mini episode, where she'll be sharing quick, powerful insights to help you up level your brand, your messaging, your business. So keep an eye out for that. Thank you so much for tuning in to Business Over Cocktails. If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend, tag us on Instagram, leave a review. It means the absolute world to get this out into the world. And until next time, keep chasing what lights you up. And we'll do a little cheers because we're not drinking cocktails, but it's coffee time, so yum. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Business Over Cocktails, where real stories and bold business moves come to life. If this episode lits something up in you, share it with a friend, tag me at Laurenajar or the podcast page at business over cocktails. Make sure to leave a quick review as well. It helps more than you know. Until next time, keep chasing what matters and building the business that feels like you. Cheers.