Crafted & Creative
Crafted & Creative a podcast meant to uplift and engage bipoc creatives who are on their journey of making a social impact and creating a lasting legacy. As well as create community and a sense of guidance for those that are looking to do the same through their artistry.
Crafted & Creative
The Intersection Between Craft and Identity w/ Raven Irabor
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Host Deja A. Ross sits down with creative director and filmmaker Raven Irabor to discuss how she leverages her identity in her work as a creative director and filmmaker.
Guest information:
Website- https://ravenirabor.com/
Show information:
https://www.craftedandcreative.com/
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/crafted-creative/id1804406983
#podcast #interview #filmmaking #creativedirection #newyork #careeradvice
Welcome to Crafted and Creative, a podcast meant to uplift and engage BIPOC creatives who are on their journey of making a social impact and creating a lasting legacy. The show's mission is to create community and a sense of guidance for those that are looking to do the same through their artistry. Today's guest is Raven Erebor. She is a Pan-African image maker, director, and curator based between New York City and Los Angeles. Her work celebrates the beauty, complexity, and imagination of the African diaspora, weaving together fashion, movement, and storytelling to inspire reflection and connection. Raised in the Bronx by Trinidadian and Nigerian parents, Raven draws from her multicultural roots to create visuals that feel both personal and expansive. Her directing portfolio includes projects for Meta, Complex, InStyle magazine, The Folklore, McDonald's, and Blavity, with her debut music video featured on Girl in Film. As a producer, she has led projects for Apple, Farfetched, and Food Network in her acclaimed web series, Leah the Late Bloomer, which was named one of the best black web series of 2019 by Shadow and Act. And this is just a few credits amongst many more credits and accolades. Thank you so much, Raven, for joining me on this podcast.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here. Yes.
SPEAKER_00And just an honorable mention: me and Raven did a directing workshop. Um, was that 2021? It was over at Billboard. Um, no, it was like 2024, because that's when I moved back to New York. 24. Oh my gosh. What is time? After the pandemic, I have no concept of time. So I got to see a little glimpse of your work. And honestly, I'm such a fan. Like going through all of the work that you've put out there, it's absolutely so I'm super excited for this conversation. So just to get it started, how did you get into filmmaking and creative direction and being this artist we know today?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, I feel like it's been a uh natural like progression. I grew up as a dancer, so that's a lot of why like movement is part of my work as a visual artist and a director. Um, and then I took the more like traditional path of like I went to school for television, radio, and film. So I went to school for production, I went to Syracuse University. Um, and I had a concentration in fashion and beauty communications and double-minded in marketing and African American studies. So I feel like not everyone who goes to college ends up merging the work that they studied in college, and it translates to their like real like post-college life. But all of those things did actually come together and like impact what I do now um after college.
SPEAKER_00But um it's so evident, it's so evident, it's like jumping off the screen all the way. Yeah, it's like, oh, this makes sense. Yeah, it really does.
SPEAKER_01Um, but yeah, after that, I what's interesting is like in school, so television radio and some was is the biggest major in a new house, which is the school of public communications at Syracuse, and I was one of maybe four black people um in that major. So during the time, I didn't really like lean into being a director. I felt like I'm gonna go in the producing track because everybody came in knowing all these big directors, and I came in knowing like music video directors, like that was like my knowledge of directing, and I didn't really feel comfortable um proclaiming that at the time. So I was like, I'm gonna go into producing. I'm very organized. I like to like know all the ins and outs of a project, so I pretty much focused on the producing track. But on the side, me and my best friend had our own like production company in New York City. So in the summertime, we would have come back to the city and um interview underground hip-hop artists. Um, so that was kind of like my uh creative outlet in I guess producing videos and directing videos in a way that like spoke to the things that me and my friends and the culture and community that we was around like was interested in. And then yeah, when I graduated college essentially, I um got into a program called Um Scope of Work um in New York City, which helped um people of color from the ages of like 18 to 24 get into the creative industry. And going through that program really allowed me to start thinking about what my um I guess visual style would be, what my perspective would be, um, and expose me to different kinds of roles in that, like the creative industry. Um so I started building my portfolio on the side. So I was working at Scripps Nextwork, which is how I got into like Food Network, Cooking Channel, was doing that kind of work full time. Um, but on the side, building my portfolio as a creative director, like shadowing different like um magazines, doing shoots in the city that was specifically more like fashion leaning, um, and building my portfolio and my style that way. Um, that was like when Patrick Collins like first was becoming popular, and like she was doing all these major Gucci campaigns. And the big thing that I noticed was like she has a very distinct style that all these different brands are going after. So it's important. What I noticed was like important for me to hone in on what is my like visual style, what is my story selling style, and those brands will come to me, these fashion brands will come to me for my perspective and for my style versus the other way around. So that's essentially how I started building my portfolio and kind of took like the somewhat like traditional realm. I ended up moving to LA for six years and working in production in the media and advertising industry in LA, building my portfolio, and then in LA got really closer into the art world. So I started art curating and all the things. And it's a long story, but that's kind of like top level how I, the, the foundation of like how I got to where I am.
SPEAKER_00Wow, what a journey! What a journey and awesome journey it's been. That's very incredible that you've been able to bridge this huge gap of careers and build it to make who you are and the type of art and the type of lens scope that you have for creating work. Now, you've worked with a lot of brands doing a lot of visual storytelling. Now, when a brand is coming to you and wanting you to help tell this story or to help, you know, promote this product, is the visuals do they come first for you, or are you necessarily thinking about the narrative and the why of the campaign?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a great question. I think it it does depend. So I do still work in corporate America and I work um doing like advertising and brand partnerships. So and when it comes to that kind of work, um is really understanding like what the brand's I guess marketing objectives are, business objectives are, what are they trying to do um with this campaign and why they're coming to us, whether it's you know, the company I work for or for my own company, Ray Studios, why are they coming to us? What is like our unique perspective that we kind of like merged that gap for them? So the strategy I think is like the first thing when it comes to um branded work for me. Um and then I'm a very visual person, so then the visuals tend to come next. Like I do a lot of like visual research um to kind of figure out okay, what do I want this to look like? And simultaneously the story kind of comes in as I'm doing the the visual research. But yeah, it's usually like understanding like the business objectives, the marketing objectives, the strategy and the insights there, and then like once I get a clear understanding of that and kind of like make sure that me and the client are aligned with what those are, I can kind of go off with like the visuals.
SPEAKER_00Is that the same for your personal work? You have your web series, Leah the Late Bloomer, you have your film that we're gonna talk to talk about later, uh Sheet Island. Was that something you know, the visuals coming to you again? I know sometimes as a filmmaker, I might, you know, be walking down the street and see like an image of a father holding his son's hand and think, like, oh, that's such a beautiful capture moment that could be something, and then develop dialogue from there, or sometimes a piece of dialogue may come to me. Is that how you work also on your personal work outside of branding work?
SPEAKER_01My personal work is definitely a different process because obviously I don't really have a brand that I need to understand their marketing objectives, so it really is coming from a place of like art for art's sake and what I want to tell and what like came to me. I'm a person that like when it comes to my personal work, I don't really unless I'm doing something for my portfolio, which is like a different agenda, different like um purpose. But if it's like I just I want to create something, I want to make something like you know, my film. I let those ideas come to me. I don't really force the um force myself to create if there's if I don't have anything to say. Um but yeah, for when it comes to my personal work, I think um I'm a like more conceptual artist, so the top level concept will come to me first, and then the visuals, and then the story. Um, and the visuals and the story continue to progress as you know the um you know creative development and pre-production happens. The concept usually remains the same, but the visual direction and the story like usually progresses as I'm like further doing research. I do a lot of research, whether it's like I'm and I'm a cultural storyteller. So even at my job, like it's a lot of like understanding the cultural guys, sometimes diving deep into a culture that I'm not really that's not my background, right? Like looking into like Mexican culture, Puerto Rican culture, and like wanting to make sure that I'm like pulling from something that's authentic and not just like cliche. Um so similarly with my work, it's like doing a lot of research on whatever topic that I am wanting to explore, and usually it has something to do with like fashion and adorment and like mysticism and folklore and whatever else have you. So like an understanding how those cultures utilize is adornment and and folklore and movement and all those things to like push their culture along or to tell stories within said culture, like those are things that I am particularly interested in. Um, so with that research, like I'm usually again gathering images, gathering different perspectives that would help um fine-tune whatever the story and the visuals are.
SPEAKER_00I love that. You also mentioned being only the one of four in your college program, um, black person in your program. And we know in terms of like uh across uh uh genres, across uh careers, that it's very white focused, very Eurocentric, and you know, the way that lighting is set up to necessarily only light white people a certain way and not like black people. Did you feel like you had to find a way to center your blackness through all of that and through discovering your um filmmaking style? Yeah, that's an interesting question.
SPEAKER_01I feel like um in school, when it came to the let's say industry leaders that we were learning about, whether they were like directors, writers, producers, definitely very white-leaning um that we were like informed of. So it required it required, but also realizing like what I naturally consume. Like I just naturally consume like black art. So even if you're not teaching it to me, I'm educating myself because these this is something that I'm like interested in. And luckily, I was born in the era where like the digital world exists, so like I can just go on YouTube and find out about different black directors, um, Caribbean directors, African directors, and like learn about their process and things of that nature. So I think that's like definitely a great blessing to be like born in a time period where you do have access to information where if you're you're like you um school is not teaching you something about your own culture, that you can kind of like go out and like find that information yourself. Um, but yeah, it's definitely I I also feel like I'm lucky that a lot of the jobs that I've had have been jobs that um was open to telling stories of different cultural backgrounds. Like even when I worked at Scripts Networks, and again, that was like Cooking Channel, HGTV, Food Network. Like the reason I remember my boss at the time saying that she like hired me and I was the last person that she interviewed. I think I like reached out to them very last minute for this job, and it was because like I felt like food was a gateway to learning about different cultures and like learning about like again different backgrounds and things of that nature versus like you know the beautiful aesthetics of food. Um, so it's like yeah, even though it's food, you can still dive into like learning about how that food like you know is important to that culture, where the you know these roots come from. Like if we're thinking about like, you know, in Puerto Rican Dominican country culture, like mofongo and mango, like if you go back, like that plantain or plantain came from Africa. So like learning about things like that through food is interesting to me. So I've been grateful whether or not my job was cognizant of it. I like use whatever topic that we did to like have a cultural meaning for myself. And then I also worked at places like Glavity, which is like black-owned, and I worked at like a black-owned fashion company, and so throughout my career also have been like um I think cognizant, and just also lucky that we are in a time period where there are black-owned or woman-owned businesses that you can like lean into to learn and about um different cultures and tell stories in a way and like people and have styling and all these things that feel like you know that makes sense for the talent on screen, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I think we're definitely blessed uh during this time to have people like Ryan Kugler and you know Ava Duvernay, these people that we could learn from and watch from, because unfortunately, these a lot of these schools still are way behind. You know, I went to a drama program where you know, a lot of conversations about well, can black actors be method? You know, can we do the thing that all of these white people in Russia did back in the early 1900s? Is that something that's really applicable to black bodies? So that's really dope that you leaned into what we have um around us now.
SPEAKER_01Um sorry, I just want to add to that that I feel like people don't realize, like because mainstream media acts like black people have never done this, people assume that, like, oh, this is the first time like black people have been like black people are not new to the planet, right? Like we have been doing these things for forever, and then now it's getting exposure. But like, you know, before, you know, Hollywood, like black people on the continent in the Caribbean have probably been doing method acting, they have been doing all these things, and sometimes it feels like you know, in the media or even in like our own conversations as like black creatives, we're like, you know, I've never seen a black person do XYZ. And it's like that has that is impossible. Black people have been on the planet for forever. It requires us to do deeper research because maybe it's not, you know, from that. It's not framed in the same way, yeah. It's not framed and we're not like informed about it, right? So it does require you to do deeper research, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. So even for ourselves, like I'm cognizant of like reframing how I'm talking about it because it's like we've been here, like you said.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we've been here.
SPEAKER_01We've been here, so it's impossible that like black people haven't been doing this sort of creative work from the very, very beginning. And if you even look at like you know, the history of the continent and how black people have been expressing themselves, black people are inherently very expressive people, very creative people, like that is in our DNA. So again, impossible. Um, but it for people to you know say that this is the first, but it's just like again, we haven't been educated and it's not, you know, in mainstream conversations, exactly.
SPEAKER_00They haven't codified it. And I remember that was a big thing when I was in school. We had theater history, and so we start with the Greeks, we talk up all about how they praise their gods and nothing about you know, Mother Africa, who has been telling stories and have found creative ways of like thinking about the drums and how we found different ways to communicate. Um, so yes, I love that you brought that up. That just inspired me because I'm like, you're right, you are right. We've always been here. Our work has always been valid, regardless of who validates us. Um, so in terms of like your uh camera essence and the way that you use camera work, I noticed there's a lot of like vintage feel to your camera work. Do you feel like that's something that um now a trademark that you you're leaning into now with your work?
SPEAKER_01Um, I don't know. I think it's kind of too early to tell if it's something that would be a trademark for me. I think I do like softer imagery and I do like naturally film um does give softer imagery. But now that I'm like, so I'm in a new place in my directing career, I guess you can say, where I I don't know if this is something that you felt with like directing and acting, but granted again, I've been working in the industry for like 10 plus years, and only now after like I, you know, got into this this program, I feel like a new sense of confidence up there with directing in a way that's like, oh, like this is a like I can do this for real for real as a career. And granted, again, I've been working in the media advertising industry for 10 plus years, been working with directors, whatever else have you. But getting into this program and like um looking into other like directors that are signed, right? Like incredible directors who have had a successful commercial directing career, and that has allowed them to get like film work and television work. And realizing like this is not something I think sometimes when you have a creative career, people look at it as very like, oh wow, like you're an actress and you're a model. Like, and not realizing like this is the same type of corporate job, corporate job that you would have as if you were like an engineer. Like, there's something different when you pursue the creative that people look at very differently than if you have like um stable job. And it only recently, like when I say racing, like in the last month, like dawned on me of like, oh directing is my like that's my job. That is the career. Um so with that I have been wanting to really, really um educate myself even more on cinematography. Like as a director, like I'm I have like some knowledge of cinematography and like camera lenses and things like that, and with my film Sheet Island, like I definitely leaned more into like the decision making and like what the look and things of that would be. But it's like even with your your question of like okay, like how are how are black people like being lit and like shown and things like that, like I want to like increase my knowledge of that so I can make not only informed decisions generally, but also like things that would uh be a signature for me as a director and and an artist, like when we see spikely and the double dolly, like we know that is a spikely thing because double doll, that's a signature. So that's something now of like okay, like now that I'm like in this new sense of like confidence, and not that I was like insecure about my directing uh capabilities, but there's like a newfound like oh, like yeah, we're gonna do this and we're gonna do this at the maximum capacity. So I wanna like and I wanna master this, like I want to have a better understanding of cinematography, um, so that I can like take my work visually to the next level. And I know certain directors also like when it comes to visuals, that may not be um as of importance, like the story may be more of an important to them because I'm more of a conceptual artist, like visuals are very, very, very important to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and your work is just it's I have to take my hat off to you. Absolutely incredible. Um, and I'm gonna go back to what you said you had a light bulb moment. Do you mind sharing what that light bulb moment was when you're like, ah, no, actually focusing on directing out because you have plenty plenty of talent, but what brought you specifically to directing in the last month?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I um at my job, I did a director's cut for this campaign that I did because I didn't really feel like the um the final edit of the commercial really represented like what I wanted it to be. So me and my co-director um decided to do a director's cut. I submitted said director's cut to the shiny list, which is an organization that's based in the UK. Um, that's all about like dismantling um the barriers of um marginalized directors getting into the industry. Submitted it, ended up getting into the shiny list. And with that, um, you have access to like their network of partners and production companies and things of that nature, and they encourage you to reach out and say, like, oh, I was in the shiny list. So, you know, with the opportunity of hopefully maybe you get more directing work, maybe you get signed, you whatever. So with that, I was looking into the production companies, and specifically, I think it was epoch films. I I want to say I'm not 100% sure, but they have a director named Alma Harel. Um, and I believe she's an Israel, she's from Israel. Um, and she her work, I don't know what it was of why I was so drawn to her work. Well, part of it is because I love folklore and like mysticism and um surrealism and magical realism, and her work does have elements of that. And just seeing how one, like her being an incredible commercial director, then she did a whole show with Apple TV that she wrote and directed. It was only for one season, but that's still to me like a huge success. Like, and it was a sh that show was incredible. I'm like, I'm surprised it didn't. Um, The Lady in the Lake. I highly recommend everybody.
SPEAKER_00I wanted to see that.
SPEAKER_01It is really good.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna watch that tonight. Okay. Um, especially because again, she's not she's not a black woman, right? And for her to be able to write this story that has this interesting like dynamic between an African-American woman and a Jewish woman, I forget what decade it was, but I'm gonna say maybe in like the early 60s or 70s, um, and have like historic value. So there's I can tell there was a lot of research on that part, a lot of research from a cultural perspective, and then adding this like interesting magical element to it, like I just live for that kind of stuff. Like, give me some deep dive research and then give me some magic, and I'm I'm out for it. Um, so seeing that wow, she's a successful commercial director, she's worked with these brands, she she directed um that movie that was based off of Shia LaBeouf's life, and then she was able to have you know, write and direct and like pitch this show that got picked up on Apple TV. She like spoke at Spike Lee's class in NYU. And it was something about seeing that, and there's a bunch of like female directors who I like loved down, but um, I don't know if it was the time that I was in getting into the program and just seeing that and seeing like wow, she doesn't have to be in a famous right director, it doesn't have to be on the level of like an Easter A or Ryan Cougar to be like, this is a successful woman that is doing incredible work. Um, and maybe some people would consider her like a mid-tier director because she's not a Ryan Cougar. But again, to me, it's like you had a show on Apple TV, that is a that was a incredible show. Yeah, exactly being on Apple TV alone, a win. And the show, the fact that the show was incredible, and then you have this, you know, incredible commercial career, you have this incredible um movie directing career, like that just showed me like, okay, you know, you don't have to be, and granted, this is not saying that I don't want to be on the level of Ryan Coogler per se, but you can find success in this work, um, be paid very well, which I think is also important because sometimes it's like you do art for art, say you're like this, like the starving artist, and it's like I also that's something I want to dismantle. Like, there's an opportunity as artists, creatives, filmmakers to really like make lucrative money in this work. And so seeing someone like her um at that time period was like, Oh yeah, like this is a job. Like she's working, this is her job, and she's taking this very seriously. Um, and it's not on something that I feel like again, especially living in LA when people hear you're a creative director, is more just like a title that associates with like clout than actual like the work. Um, so yeah, just seeing her just like emphasize like, okay, yeah, this is this is a job, right?
SPEAKER_00Right, and it grounds it too, because sometimes we think, you know, like, oh, well, I don't have that person's success, then I'm not successful. When clearly you've you've booked projects, your bills are paid, things are good, but you feel like, oh, well, since you haven't won an Oscar or you haven't, you know, done this or done that, that you know, you're not you're you're you're not reaching your full potential when in reality you are. And I many times have to remind myself, like you've you've worked, you've done things, sure, there's still places to go, but to appreciate where you are now. Um, now going back to um you know, filling your work with natural blackness in your life, right? Of like doing research outside of school or outside of work, do you feel like well, I'll I'll speak for myself first. I know as a black woman in some leadership positions, it can be hard for people to trust my capabilities to, you know, really trust that I know how to lead a ship. Have you felt like you've run up against that when leading projects or working on a film creative project?
SPEAKER_01I would say for the most part, no. I would say 90% of the time um I've been in whether it is like my corporate work or my own work and like obviously how they can bring people on and like collaborate with people. 90% of the time I feel like I am supported and people trust me. But there have been that 10%, which again is like a small percentage, where it is kind of like, you know, um, whether it is like someone mansplaining things to me, and it could be a black man, right? Just mansplaining things and not being super collaborative or feeling kind of off by like another person of a different cultural background. Um, but I'm grateful. I know that that's this is not everybody else's story. I know some people have been in environments where they have to continuously like fight for their their voice in a room. I'm grateful that like people have been super, super supportive of like my creative path, um, wanting to see me win and giving me the space, like my current job. I will say like my manager and my boss are like incredibly supportive and like are like continue to push me and you know are like, yep, whatever Raven says. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm the decision maker here.
SPEAKER_00All right, cool. Do you do you feel like some some days you're a little intimidated by those titles, or do you feel like you're in a place where you have fully stepped into like, yes, I'm director, pro producer, creative director, like I am these things?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, sometimes, like I know when at my job we did um it was like my first big campaign at my job when we did a campaign with Megan the Stallion, and it was like someone was like, Oh, do you want like a pink um velvet backdrop or a blue? And like those simple like questions, realizing that like, oh, people are like you are the person to decide, no one else is making this final decision. So I had to be like, um I think pink, like, you know, just making that decision and people be like, all right, cool, we're following Raven's lead. Um, and that was something to be like, I think like newly stepping into, especially when you're working with the big talent, working with the big client, and you are the person that like everybody's looking towards to have like the the creative vision for something. Um, I'm a little bit more comfortable with it now, but that was like one project in particular, especially I think that was like me stepping up into this, like this level where I was like, all right, like they're looking to me, I guess, pink, uh, sure. Um, but now I'm a little bit more comfortable, especially I think because like again, my team is like so collaborative and super supportive. So even when I'm like a little hesitant, like I'm like, okay, like what do you guys think? And sometimes my manager will answer, and sometimes he'll push me like I think you can figure this out. Um, so yeah, it's been an interesting journey with like having that, like stepping into that and knowing that you are the person that everybody's like looking to.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Like you said, just making game time decisions sometimes when you're on set and someone's bringing something to you that you just have not had the time, and you're just like yellow. Like, yeah, let's go with the pink. The pink is gonna work, you know. Um, and building, I mean, it is such a collaborative uh thing to work on a film set or to work on the shoe. And congratulations working with you know Megan the Stallion, who's huge at this point. How was that?
SPEAKER_01It was great. I love her. She's like literally like stunning, but in all the ways, like I feel like everybody was just so like enthralled by her presence. And she was also very chill, very funny, like very relatable. Um, but yeah, it was a really, really big project because obviously when you're working with like an A-list talent, you have to make sure like certain things are done in a certain way. And like you, there's also a lot of people that need to be on set, but it also can't be overwhelming for said talent. So it's like that like balance of like we need a lot of roles to make sure that things go right, but you don't want to overwhelm them, and they're like wiser a hundred people staring at me. Um, so yeah, it was it was really cool. It was really like having to, and I'm not like super precious about like, oh, I'm the creative lead, like I'm not going to be like running around and it's like no, like I'm on the ground, I'm helping where I need to help, but while also realizing like people need my creative vision. It's also, I think, important, whether you're a creative director or a producer or a director, I think knowing that your energy is what's like transferring over to everybody else. So it's like even if you're stressed out, you still gotta be like, all right, y'all, like we're gonna have a great shoot. Like, you have to keep that energy up because it's going to be infectious for everybody else. Um, so that was something too. It's like people are gonna be calling you, and I'm like helping this person, the photographer here, but then the director needed my opinion on something else, or the production designers asking me blue or pink, and it's like you have to be able to juggle everything while also having a keeping a smell on your face and being like pleasant, and then talking to the talent and being like, Hey Megan, so this is what we're doing today, and this is XYZ, and like we need you to slide your hand this way and what and making sure that it's clear for her, and you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it was a fun shoot. Wow, amazing. Now, in that environment, are there moments where you all may not necessarily be on the same agreement for something? And how do you work through that? Like me and the client, like yeah, or you and your team, like say you're working with um, you know, the director, and the director wants one thing, but you're like, Well, this is what we set up, and this is what the original vision, but they want to try something else, and you're not necessarily yeah, on the same page.
SPEAKER_01Um, I've recently kind of had an experience with that. I think um I think it's it's complicated because I'm also a director. I like can understand both sides. I think sometimes directors, and this is something recently, even after the shiny list, and I was talking to some production companies about this. Some directors don't either they don't know or don't really care that you by the time we get to the director, there's been like rounds of creative reviews with the the client, with the brand, with the agency, right? So by the time we get to you, said director, like things kind of have already been approved, set in stone. Everybody kind of has an idea of like what the creative vision and direction and the intention behind it. That is not to say that like you can't bring your own POV because usually, at least for me, when I'm hiring a director, the same way that people say blue or pink, like I'm hiring you for your perspective. So it's like, I'm like, hey, what do you think about this? I don't I think it's the worst when you hire a director and they're like, Yeah, you know, whatever you guys want. And it's like, no, like, because now it's you're adding more work on my play when it's like I'm hiring you because I think that you have a great perspective, you have a great eye, you have a great XYZ, you know. But it's also to say, like, if we're saying that this campaign is for the summertime, and you're like, this would actually look really great if we shot it in the winter. No, like, you know, it has to make sense for like what, you know, again, we've gone through all these rounds of reviews and approvals with the clients. So um, I think as long as like what they're bringing to the table creatively makes sense with what we have already established, um, then yeah. But to me, if it's it's like either A, like you don't bring anything, you don't you just like whatever you want, I think that's not a great collaborator, collaborator when it comes to like a director. And then B, if like you're like completely disregarding what we've put in place and wanting to do something else, and it's like sounds like you want to make a film, and this is a commercial, and we have to adhere by like KPIs and strategy and objectives, um, and not just make anything like it's not just art for art's sake. And I think sometimes when people, directors or whoever come into the commercial world, they think, oh yeah, because it's a visual, like it is art for art's sake, and it it's not. It's like the difference between like being a graphic designer and then being like an illustrator who has their work in a gallery. Like you may be doing the same skill sets um in terms of like designing, but when you're a graphic designer in the brand space, like you have to adhere to certain strategies and certain like philosophies. Then if you were just doing a graphic piece that goes into the art world, it's just like whatever you wanted it to be. Uh so yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay. Now I remember when I was going through my advertising training, and I remember at one point in the program, you know, we were considering me and my group was like, Oh, well, you know, trying to necessarily sell to a black audience, there was some confliction with it. Now, when you have brands come to you wanting to directly target a black audience, does that affect the way that you uh will shoot a scene or how you would write the dialogue, does that necessarily affect that that standpoint?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I I think if the if the client is like they want to speak to the black audience or they want to speak to the Hispanic audience or whatever else have you, you do have to make the creative speak very authentically to said audience. Um so even like the campaign that I was saying that I submitted to Shiny List, like it was like the the talent, that person is Nigerian. They grew up in the US, they like moved to the US when they were young. Um, and everything about their brand is like unifying like the African and African American diaspora and like showing the synergies and things of that nature. So it's like for me, uh again, with me also being Nigerian, it's like the set design needs to make sense. And also even being very specific, just because you're a Nigerian, Nigeria has all these tribes. This person is Yoruba. So if we're adding African or Nigerian things, they need to speak to the Yoruba culture. We can't just be like, oh, he's Nigerian, we're gonna put some Igbo and Ishe and XRT. Now, this comes from the I know this because I am Nigerian, but even if I wasn't Nigerian, I'm aware that every single culture, every single country has like different nuances and pockets to it. So I think it's like, you know, when a client wants to speak to the black audience, and even especially if there's a talent, right? If it's black audience in general, then I think it's different. But when there's like a talent, let's say the talent again is like Puerto Rican, they're like Afro-Latina, right? How do you speak to the specifically what that person's background is? What does the set design look like? What does the how does the music sound like? And again, in a way that's like not cheesy and stereotypical. So I personally try to like again do a lot of research on like set culture, the talent, ask them questions ahead of time to make sure that like I'm not just speaking for them, especially if it's a culture that I'm not, that's not part of my background, like really diving in and understanding like okay, what are the elements of your culture that you are like um, you know, attached to and privy to and care about, and how can we put that in in all aspects of the production, like whether it's your wardrobe, whether it's your hair, makeup, production design, sound, you know, finding ways that like speak to your to the to that person's culture or to whatever the client is trying to target.
SPEAKER_00Just keeping it authentic. Yeah. And now you're doing a lot of input or output, you know, you're creating a lot, you're doing a lot. How do you personally fill up your cup?
SPEAKER_01Oh man, I I think there's like one answer that's like I just do this because my brain is dead and I just need to like not think. So I'm a person, I love watching YouTube interviews, like I love watching podcasts on YouTube, like Hiki Palmer's podcast, um, The Diary CEO. Like, I'm gonna watch any single podcast on YouTube. So I love watching that, and then I do watch like educational creative videos on YouTube. Like, there's some um creators who talk about like art direction and talk about different campaigns or um Studio Binder, they're like that filmmaker platform. They have a lot of great videos on YouTube, so I might watch that kind of stuff, and those things like impact um how I like do my actual work. Um, but outside of that, like I like I said, I love dancing. I don't I want to get back to taking dance classes, but sometimes just dancing for yourself for fun does like replenish me. Um, any sort of movement, whether it's like yoga, going for a walk, I love that. Um I love to chat, so even having like great conversations with people um who I think have like great perspectives or whatever, like I usually feel really inspired by like a really good conversation. Um yeah, I would say that.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Now I want to pivot to She Island. Um, first of all, this film is gorgeous, it's stunning. I recommend please go watch this movie, please. Absolutely love it. Well, this film takes place in the heart of the Caribbean, and it's about a mother and daughter duo that confronts a malevant curse, erasing identities of the island's women, propelling them on a daring quest to reclaim their rich cultural heritage and triumph over the encroaching darkness. Absolutely beautiful. Just seeing that journey. Now, what inspired you to make this film?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so kind of going back to what I was saying earlier. Like, I'm a person, if I'm creating something for myself, like I don't force it, like an idea has to come to me. So an idea did come to me about like wanting to do a film about Caribbean womanhood, and that was like the basis of it. Like the concept is a film about Caribbean womanhood, and then um I can't remember if it was like 2022 or 2021, but I um stayed in Trinidad for like a little over a month, maybe like six weeks, um, and was with my grandmother. And um, that was the first time I went to her like local church. Um, and I go to Trinidad like pretty often, but I've never been to my grandma's like local church. Um, and it was interesting seeing that the way that they like worship is very similar to like some African like worship styles, and even like the design, like yeah, the interior design of the space reminded me of like certain like African churches and like just spirituality and spiritual practices overall. So I was learning about my grandma, she's Christian, but they have a denomination in Trinidad and in the Caribbean overall. But in Trinidad it's called um spiritual baptism, and it was founded in Trinidad, but it was um because it was too African, it was banned in Trinidad for a very, very long time. Um so people who were practicing it were kind of like othered. It kind of seemed like it was like a demonized religion. I would equate it if anyone is like familiar with like um I think I don't remember if it's Puerto Rican or Cuban, but like Santa Teria, where they they utilize like the Catholic saints, but also like Yoruba, like spiritual practices emerging together. Um so yeah, just learning about my grandma's church and then wanting to like learning about like different Caribbean folklore. So I like also just during that time studied a lot of Caribbean folklore, came across the character Logia Blast, came across this like concept of like hybridity, like and it being something that people study. So all those things coming together in like my grandma's church, Logia Blast, the concept of hybridity really unpacked and made me realize the value of like showing people that Caribbean culture is this hybrid culture of African culture, European culture, um, East Asian culture, and like you know, native culture coming together to create something new, which is the whole concept of hybridity, and that's how spiritual baptism came to be and Santeria came to be, um, and just like different genres, like anything about Caribbean culture is a result of hybridity, which is like a result of colonialism, right? Um so yeah, just like going to Trendette, studying all those those things, and then deciding like okay, top level, this is what I want the film to be about. Um, then I got like a a group of I think five writers that helped me um develop the actual like story arc of it all. And yeah, that's how it kind of like from a story perspective came to be.
SPEAKER_00It was absolutely beautiful. It brought me back to growing to going to church with my grandmother and like going to a very southern Baptist church and you know, and seeing those blends of it and really seeing how we have so many similarities, but you know, just the way that the world is, we like to think that we're so divided or we're so different, but in reality, we really aren't, you know. Yeah, um, and and so how long was the process of making that project from when you got the idea to the very end to hitting submit?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so let's I want to say that tripped happened in 2021. Um the film was completed fully in 2025. Wow, yeah, yeah. So it took um a little while, and um honestly really there was a point where I was like really impatient about it. Like I wasn't like fully at a point of like giving up, and this was in the post-production stage specifically, but realizing that even going back to what I was saying about research, like real life is also research, like in post-production, like the length of time that it took to finish the edit, and we had to the film was already 20 minutes. We finished the film, then submitted to festivals, didn't get into any and realized it's the length of the film. So then had to open the edit back up, cut it down, change things. Um, and if it wasn't for like getting into the She Made It program, because I had um one of the the uh leaders and one of the people that we met during the program like look at the film and give me notes. If it wasn't for like someone that was like dating at the time, like a just a bunch of things that happened during in my personal life that inspired a lot of the changes of the film and like inspired how I thought about the film, wouldn't have happened if I was like one so very like strict about my deadline, um, strict about what I wanted it to be. Um, yeah, so it it really taught me just like patience with filmmaking, um, especially in the post production process. I think like the pre production creative development, like while things took a little a little longer wasn't as crazy as post production. Um, but I think there was a level of like, okay, we need to like hit certain deadlines, especially we did. crowdfunding so it was like okay no we have to hit a certain deadline to make a certain amount of money to go into production um but yeah there was a lot of like pray uh grace and patience and trusting the process when it came to post production that uh benefited in the way that the film ended up turning out it's filmmaking is such a a lengthy process and sometimes hearing it I'm like you know what you're right like filmmaking can take years you know on top of like like you said dealing with the personal life and all these influences and how that can influence the filmmaking what was it like putting together your cast and crew because the costumes were excellent the dancing was excellent you know all of that I'm like how how did she get I'm like she lives in the States how did she get it um one uh Trinidad has so we shot it in Trinidad it's the film is supposed to be pan-Caribbean but we actually shot it in Trinidad um I think it one thing it was that was really really important to me was like for people to understand that the Caribbean does have um one incredibly talented artist um and has a robust production um landscape and ecosystem because traditionally when people do films or shows about the Caribbean and typically cast people in the UK or the US um and they bring over their entire production crew or majority of their production crew from the US or the UK to the Caribbean. So I did not want to do that to be able to showcase that the Caribbean can't put produce a high quality um production without needing resources fully from the US um so that was like a major major like in intention on my part. Trinidad has a local casting um network so um I utilized um to help with casting and then we just did like virtual um sessions so I had people the film is as you know it was um majority performance there's no actual dialogue so it was a lot of people having to like interpret movement um we gave them a video of like some choreography that they did have to like interpret and perform and send videos of um so that was part of the casting process in terms of the crew a lot of it's like so for me this is something that I learned with my like corporate career and like also with me just being very like hands-on like I make a deck for everything like I'm some people love it some people like she got way too many decks but majority of people appreciate it so with that I'm very very specific on like what I want wardrobe to be what I want the sound to to be what I want hair and makeup to be there's a deck for every single department cinematography you got a deck too everybody got a deck about what this project is and it's like laddering it like okay we're grounding it on the concept the intention the strategy and now here's like the creative like this is what the wardrobe is supposed to be so that you can understand I'm not coming up with like wardrobe ideas just because I think things are cute. It latters back up to the intention and the strategy here. So that's a lot of like coming from like my corporate background. So with that it's like having conversations with different stylists and costume designers locally um there was a designer that we actually wanted to bring from Brazil it didn't end up working out but I love her work. But having these conversations with different department heads locally seeing who makes sense from a chemistry perspective and who understands like what the intention is and like usually again when people get these decks that are so specific it helps them do a better job because it's not like they're trying to figure out okay what does this director want? It's like you know exactly what I want and then you're able to elevate it like again going back to what we were saying earlier with the director like I trust your perspective. So it's like this is what I'm saying I want. Now I want you to plus it up take it up 10 levels based on what I what I've already set as a foundation. So um it was a great collaborative process because people understood what I wanted and because I come from a dance background it's like I can be like okay I want this genre of dance I want these people to do these kinds of things um and like I kind of worked a lot of like I've done styling before so it's like I know how certain things should be and are able to communicate with different departments about that. The department that I know the least is camera which is why I want to like learn more about it. But um so yeah it was so clear you could see like oh this girl had a vision it was executed for sure um going back to like the choreography and the the the movement language of the film why was it important for you to have this film primarily take place using dance as communication and as language yeah um so I think that's it just becomes natural to me it wasn't like I was intending on like making a film that didn't have dance but most of my projects have some especially my personal work have some level of movement so it's just an area that I'm like most comfortable in and honestly like this is my version of trying to do something more narrative because like I said I'm a more of a like conceptual artist um so I like there's certain things that usually is left up to like interpretation to a degree um so this was like okay let me like try to get into my narrative bag but also do it in a way that feels authentic to me. So even going back to like your earlier question about like my style even though I haven't figured out like my let's say like cinematography style but I do think like movement and like adornment um and like whether it's surrealism or magical realism are like strong elements of like my work. So yeah so it's just a natural and also just thinking about like culture like dance especially culture of uh of the diaspora dance and movement is a big part of like of our culture so it it almost would feel like to me and for like the type of work that I do would feel like a disservice to not showcase movement when movement is a lot of the ways in which we communicate like just thinking about like how certain stories were passed down like certain dance movements and body movements communicated something so that like this enslaved Africans knew how to do certain things or kept certain traditions going or like communicate like this maybe a slave master was coming soon and they did a certain movement or they made a certain sound um that communicated certain things to to the other enslaved Africans so um yeah it was just also honoring that as like a um a form of communication that we've been doing like historically and it's absolutely gorgeous.
SPEAKER_00Now what do you want audiences to take away from this film?
SPEAKER_01You know we talked about you know people understanding the Caribbean having a wealth of talent which is evident um what else would you say you want people to take away when they watch the film um I think one thing is like understanding the um for those who are not Caribbean right and even for those who are not black but definitely for those who are not Caribbean understanding that Caribbean culture is not this like who hypersexual culture. I think when people think about Caribbean culture specifically carnival they look at it as this like hypersexual thing like if you are like not of Caribbean descent and you go to Carnival people are like oh you know make sure that you're not doing XYZ you know while and now you take it somebody it's like it's this weird like social commentary like that is reducing the essence of what Carnival is um so wanting to showcase like carnival it has a sense of like liberation and freedom that's like that's why like when the curse is lifted on the island there's a carnival less celebration not just for them to like start dancing like working up themselves is to showcase like this is how Caribbean liberate themselves that this what carnival does for them is very very very freeing um and has like history that goes back to like slave times like a lot of like earn early carnival was a way for like during I think some Caribbean islands like it was a day where like when maybe like the um colonizers allowed them to express themselves right and sometimes they would dress up as a colonizer so there's certain costuming that they would look like they are like pretending to be like a French person or a British person depending on like what what country colonize them or whatever else have you. So really just showcasing to people that Caribbean culture is not this like hypersexual culture. There's a lot of like nuance into carnival and there's also like interesting dichotomy in the Caribbean because you do have like carnival and like even like in Jamaica dance hall that may be more sexual but also like there's elements of like Jamaican culture that are very rigid and very like Christian like don't play they don't play in other Caribbean islands the same thing. So there's like dichotomy of like yeah you can be very free you can dress a certain way in Caribbean culture but also there's a certain element of like you go into church and your hair is wrapped you have to wear a long skirt like there you know um so yeah just showcasing like all I think it was important to to share that um and I think the other thing that I just want people to take away specifically for people of the diaspora is like the nuances of similarities and differences that exist within the diaspora the fact that you said it reminded you of like your southern like churches is like those are the things that like those are types of conversations that I want to to have because there are similarities but there are also like nuanced differences that are also okay like you know I think sometimes like I'm not into the diaspora wars. So it's like the stuff that I I make is like for people to see how we're similar and then to respect the differences because the differences also is what makes us unique and makes you know this person Caribbean versus black American versus Afro-Latina versus African. So um being able to celebrate that and like create a space for like conversation around that.
SPEAKER_00Love that and what advice would you give to someone that's interested in being a creative director, a filmmaker, producer?
SPEAKER_01Um I would give different advice for each I think for a creative director I think um it's important to understand the like holistic picture of like you know what you're trying to create outside of like so let's say you're doing you're a creative director for a a campaign like it's more than just the video thing that you're putting out like how does photography support it how does the copy support it how does like everything support everything for the entire vision um and understanding especially if you're doing you're working as a creative director alongside a director right like you're here to support work collaboratively with the director to help elevate whatever their vision is um so it's really collaborative role with the director at least for me um for a director the even for both creative director and director I think is really really important to understand what your creative perspective is and your creative POV because that's gonna differentiate you from your other from the other directors from the other creative directors that are in the market. So even going back to like the Patrick Collins example earlier it's like I realize oh people are hiring her because of her perspective and her style and that's how she's getting these these jobs so in order for you for a director or creative director to get these creative jobs is like you don't want to be a director and creative director that can do anything. Right like yeah I can do a commercial for for Nike and I can do a car commercial and I can do it's like okay what's what is your niche what makes you like stand out in your niche what is your perspective on certain things like I know Kahlo Joseph when he was doing his recent press tour or for black news like he was talking a lot about perspective and it it's something that you hone in over time. So I also want people to give themselves like grace and patience with that like it's not like you're gonna wake up one day and like no so I would just say keep that at the forefront um as a creative director and a director specifically with a director it's knowing that you are the leader on set like people are going to be looking to you for a lot of um the answers to things um and this doesn't mean that you have to like be a know it all right but like again this goes back to having a perspective um and having a voice and trusting trusting your voice and even when you are unsure trusting the people that you brought on because when you're a director you're bringing in your DP you're bringing in your stylist or whatever trusting them um so that you're making the best decision um and then for a producer I think the the biggest thing for a producer is knowing that you're there to support the creative and championing the creative obviously you do have like you know other uh things whether it's like you have um you know the client that you have to like manage or the budget or if you're doing for like something for a network you have like the network KPIs and certain things that you have to like adhere to but I think a great producer at the end of the day is able to balance all of the things of like balancing what the network wants balancing what the production company wants balancing what the brand wants but also like ensuring that you're getting the best creative possible and like working with your directors to be like okay what is a non-negotiable for you what is super important for you like let's say the the client is like all right we don't want we don't our we don't like the color blue because that's our competitors color okay cool so you can't do that how can you still tell this story without utilizing blue like working with your your creative team um and like managing those things and having that balance so I think that's super super important for a producer and being communicative all of those roles you have to be com if you can't communicate your idea to people through a deck through a call pitching your idea then it's gonna be really really hard for you so any of those roles being super communicative putting your ideas down on paper not assuming that you understand what you want to do because like people can't read minds so like over communicating what your idea is what your intention is and why you're doing said thing amazing and what's next for you what's next um we're just doing a lot with She Island um we're trying to do some programming in New York and LA for Caribbean Heritage Month which is in June so be on the lookout for that um I also another project that I have is called Last Night I cried which is a project that high level is around like heartbreak and normalizing heartbreak and creating a safe space for women and women of color um to talk about heartbreak um and again to normalize it. So there's a short like experimental document um that I have for that that is like a three-panel film but we adapt it based on like where it's being displayed um photography um I've done an exhibition for it and then I've done cultural programming for it in the Bronx Museum last year actually and now we have what I'm calling like living art objects so the idea is like you know especially if you experience the exhibition or any of the in real life programming and like really was able to like feel the healing energy in those spaces um being able to take that energy home with you through our healing journals which allows people to like you know write out and there's like specific prompts to help them on their healing journey. And then we have a healing blanket. Sometimes you need something very tactile to keep you cozy and warm and allow you to um just facilitate a space for healing. So those are the two things right now that I'm like really pushing selling those objects for people to just help them cultivate a space of healing in their own homes. And even if it's like you know some people it it solves the healing problem for them and some people it solves for having like intentional art pieces in your home. So like the blanket is a tapestry that you can hang up on your wall. I've exhibited in in certain um art galleries as well as an art piece in itself. So if you're looking for just more intentional design in your home the tapestry allows for that even if you don't want to you know cuddle with it you can have it as an art piece in your home and similarly with the journal um both of these are like illustrative designs off of the photography that I have for this project. So um the journal also operates as like a nice visual piece that you can have on like your bookshelf um your coffee table all the things and where can people find you um I'm on Instagram Raven Cherice that's R A V E N C H E R I S S E. I'm kind of on TikTok but you're not gonna really find much about me on TikTok. And then for She Island we are on Instagram She Island underscore film on Instagram and TikTok where that's I would say TikTok for the film is where we're also quite active um my website is ravenerbore.com that's R-A-P-E-N I-R-A-P-O-R dot com and I'm also very active on LinkedIn if like some creatives like sleep on LinkedIn as a platform but the people that are hiring you the producers the brand managers the creative directors at to work at Nike Adidas Netflix whatever they're on LinkedIn so be on LinkedIn um so I'm also on LinkedIn um so you can find me there Raven Erebor all right thank you guys for watching this episode of Crafted a creative and I will see you in the next episode