Vitamin OC Episode 4: NY Times Best Selling Sports Author Jeff Pearlman

In this conversation, Jeff Pearlman, a renowned sports writer turned political commentator, discusses his transition from sports journalism to covering the political landscape in Orange County. He reflects on his experiences, including a controversial 1999 interview with John Rocker, the impact of Donald Trump on the USFL, and the motivations behind his Substack, Truth OC. Pearlman emphasizes the importance of activism, community engagement, and the need for honest journalism in today's political climate, particularly in light of the actions of ICE and the current state of political extremism.

Takeaways

• Jeff Pearlman transitioned from sports writing to political commentary.
• His interview with John Rocker taught him valuable lessons in journalism.
• Donald Trump's actions in the USFL reflect his character.
• Truth OC was created out of frustration with local media coverage.
• Activism in Orange County is vibrant and essential.
• Pearlman finds humanity even in political extremes.
• Community engagement is crucial for combating political despair.
• He emphasizes the importance of using privilege to amplify marginalized voices.
• ICE's actions are alarming and reminiscent of historical injustices.
• Pearlman encourages others to speak out and engage in activism.

Follow us on Instagram @VitaminOCPodcast

Watch us on YouTube @VitaminOCPodcast

Transcript

Welcome to Vitamin OC, I'm Joanna Weiss.

And I'm Whitney Gomez. Every week we bring you your recommended dose of civics and civilization in Orange County. 

Today we are extremely honored to be joined by someone who has been making quite a splash in Orange County for the last six months. We're joined by Jeff Pearlman, who is a nationally known sports writer, but has recently started to write about politics here in Orange County. And Whitney and I both have been subscribing to your Substack, and we are so grateful that you're here with us to share your thoughts on Orange County politics.

There's just so much good news to go around. I couldn't not, how could I not show up?

Jeff, before we get into what you're doing with Truth OC, I want to establish you as a prolific, nationally known sports writer. So for our listeners who haven't heard about you before, let me just go down your list of accomplishments if you don't mind. You have written for Sports Illustrated, ESPN, and The Atlantic. You left sports for a short time and were writing for Newsday in New York. You've contributed to The Wall Street Journal, CNN, and Bleacher Report. You have written 10 books and four were on the New York Times bestseller list.

This is going to sound super douchey, but seven.

Seven, congratulations. Okay, And you've written books about the Lakers, the Mets, the Dallas Cowboys, Bo Jackson, Barry Bonds, Brett Favre, and your 2014 book was made into a two season HBO series called Winning Time. So your book Showtime was made into Winning Time. which again, people really know about it and our listeners haven't heard of you, many others have heard of you.

And you've crushed your career in sports writing. When my husband heard that you were coming, it legitimized this podcast. He said, wow, how did you get him to come? So thanks for coming. We really appreciate that. And I want to start with your iconic 1999 interview with John Rocker. 

I was a young writer at the time at Sports Illustrated and I covered baseball. There  was a pitcher for the Atlanta Braves named John Rocker.  He's had a resurgence lately on Twitter because he leads conspiracies that Michelle Obama actually has a penis and is a man. I wrote this long story about him. He's a moron. He's guy from Georgia, not that bright. Homophobic and racist and all this stuff, you know, really bad. And the story just kind of blew up. This was pre really social media. It was the last issue of 1999. So the issue blew up and it became the story and Rocker gets suspended and demoted and he has to go to sensitivity training. Clearly it didn't work that well. And, that was my first national story.

He called a black teammate, a fat monkey. He talked about quote unquote queers on the seven train with AIDS. Like he's a really vile human being. When the story came out, I was definitely not prepared for the backlash and the kind of craziness of it all. But it was for me, it was a real education.

And you have a longer video about it that people can find online that I recommend. You tell a great story.

I appreciate that. I have a YouTube series called the Press Box Chronicles where I talk about my career and different things. So that's where it is.

You tell another story. You wrote a book called Football for a Buck and it is about the failed US football league and one of the owners helped ruin that league and that's someone who was a businessman in the 1980s called Donald J. Trump. It's a fascinating story. Can you share with us a little bit about that?

Yeah, It's funny because everything Donald Trump has done, if you research the United States football league, you're like, I recognize that. recognize it. Basically Trump at the time was in his thirties and he was a New York real estate guy. And there's this league that comes along and there was a rival league to the NFL. There was a spring league instead of a fall league. Pro football. And Donald Trump buys the New Jersey franchise, but the whole time his whole plan is he wants an NFL team. He has no interest in the USFL. And very early on, after buying this team, the New Jersey Generals, he holds a secret meeting with the commissioner of the NFL, basically tells him, I will throw this league, the USFL under the bus if you can get me an NFL franchise. I don't care about the USFL, I want to get into the NFL. Everything he did was a diabolical underhanded bullshit plan to get a professional football league. And when the USFL died because he killed it, he didn't care.

All these people lost jobs. All these people's dreams are crushed. This league died mainly because of Donald Trump. So, uh, To me, it was very indicative of who he is now. He just doesn't care. It's a remarkable story of a guy who does not care about people, has no personal connection to the plights of people, of these young aspiring athletes trying to make it. Many of them poor people living out of dream. He didn't care. He just didn't care.

And I remember thinking at the time working on the book, which was right before the 2016 election. Like this guy is unchanged just as a savage human being who does not care about the wellbeing of people.

And you're a New Yorker and you're from the East Coast and my husband's from New York. and how New Yorkers knew that very early because they saw the Donald Trump from the 80s. You always wanted to let other people know, Hey, this guy has been bad news for as long as he's been an adult. I wish more Americans, you know, have had the same sensibilities as some of the East coasters.

Yeah. I actually think it's interesting. I think to be from New York is to recognize a certain type. I grew up an hour from the city so we'd go to the city a lot. I remember you used to go to Times Square and this is not the Disney Times Square. This is Times Square where people go for a hand job and a bump of coke. There'd be these guys and they'd have cardboard boxes and they would have the shell game. And actually I have this book coming out I worked on this book about Tupac. A lot of Tupac's family is from New York and some of his cousins used to literally operate shell games. 

You you put a ball under three walnut shells and you spin them around and which one is it? And you would have some of your friends gathered around and they were basically playing with you and they would pretend to win money. And then you'd have tourists come and they'd like, you should put down 20 bucks. You should put down 20 bucks. They put down the 20 bucks they lose, start all over again. That is Donald Trump. Donald Trump is a guy running the shell game. He's always been the guy running the shell game. And then a vast majority of New Yorkers, People think New Yorkers hate Donald Trump because he's conservative or MAGA, no.

Cause we recognize what this guy is. If you're from New York, know what a bullshitter is. You understand the very species and he is the shell game guy. He's a guy selling fake Rolexes on a tarp outside of a store and the cops come and you roll up your Rolex. You you roll it up and run off real quick. That's entirely who he is.

How did you end up in California?

We moved here 11 years ago. My entire family's in New York. My mom is still mad that we moved to California. I was working on a book, the book that became winning Time (was called Showtime). So I was out here a lot working on it. And the sportscaster Jim Rome used to have a show out here on CBS Sports Network.  Every now and then he would call me and he used to have panels of sports writers and fly out for a week. And it was a really sweet gig.

And I would come out and I would just be in Orange County. You'd be out here and sunny and be cold in New York. I'd go to Laguna Beach and just hang out. And one time I just said to my wife, who's also a lifelong New Yorker, said, we come out with we, we should move out here. She's like, we're not moving out. Come out. We're not moving out. She comes out with me.

She walks about around Balboa. She takes a run in the sun. This is what happened. True story. It is 2014 and our wedding anniversary is January. She is going to be away for our wedding anniversary, but she leaves me a present and she says, open it on our anniversary. I open it and it's a California Angels hat with a card and the card says, I'm nauseous. I'm terrified, but let's do it.

Oh, great. Okay. Wonderful. So you were out here writing a book. You were teaching at Chapman and then Donald Trump gets elected. And nine years later, you start Truth OC. This is the Substack stack and start writing about politics. Can you tell us a little bit about what that TruthOC means to you and the subtitle of that, which is because it's time to fight back.

It's not like I want to do this. Like this being honest, I don't, I don't want to do this. Like, I don't want to do this at all. Like I don't even, I hate this. Right. But I have a newspaper background. I started my career at the National Tennessean and I worked later at Newsday. Newspapers are just dying on the vine. And people get mad. People are like, why isn't the LA Times covering this? Or why isn't the Orange County Register covering this?

But they're not covering it because their staffs have been slashed by 85%. And while we used to have maybe 15 OC Register political writers go into the local school board meetings and go into this. There's now like one or two people. It's just a reality of it and nobody's covering it. And I was sitting here looking around and I'm just like, nobody's covering this stuff. Nobody's writing about this craziness. And the other thing is, is coming from New York, there's a certain kind of Orange County crazy that I was unexposed to. It is that vacant look. everything is great. Everything is great. We love kids. Like you see with school boards in particular with like the Capo school board. Is it a frightening ground zero for me, Moms for Liberty type craziness. And they're just like, we love kids. We're softball moms. Here's some bubbles. We're going to have a pizza party. It's great. And meanwhile, they're like doing all this crazy underhanded stuff. And I just didn't see anyone writing about it. And I felt like I can't not do something and I don't have any talents. you know? So I just started the Substack on a whim and, and here I sit. you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't have a great answer. I'm just, it's frustrating. It's frustrating. It's hard.

Well we're lucky you did because it's really taken off like wildfire.

I just think, I think people are frustrated and I think people feel lost. I think we all feel lost. I feel lost too. And, like, I just, I don't know what else to do. Like that's the truth. And the other thing I will say is this.  What I like about what you guys are doing: there's nothing in it for me, just like there's nothing really in it for you. Like I'm not making money off of this.  You don't have to subscribe, but people who do subscribe, I'm putting it all back into politics. Like I'll give money to campaigns, et cetera. I don't want a dime off of this.  And I think people need to see especially in this needs that not everyone is trying to make a quick buck. Like not everyone is doing this because of greed. or not everyone is doing this. don't need, I'm already a quote unquote well-known sports writer, whatever that means. I don't need the fame of a local political blog, like I'm not doing it for any reason, except I'm angry and I'm frustrated and I want someone, I want people to step up and feel empowered and it for that's it.

Yeah. And I actually have to just give a recognition to so many Orange County activists that have been stepping up since 2016. We get accused every now and then of being a party that hires political actors. and things like that. But we get hundreds of people showing up at times who are doing it for no other reason. And I think of a lot of people who are active in our community, really have not made any money off of this. I just am so grateful for people like you and other people who have been doing this and not making any money off of it. It's so important.

I agree. Every Wednesday, in Mission Viejo on the corner of whatever, whatever. Yeah, you go right outside Young Kim's office and there are usually 300 people there just waiting with signs and whatever. That's, to me, that's pretty bad ass.

And they were doing it in 2017 with Mimi Walters, they were doing it with Dana Rohrabacher's offices and people have been showing up and our Orange County activist community is a pretty badass community.

I also have found . . . I don't know if you guys have too, like I think . . . It's very, very easy to get down, like very profoundly easy to get down. And I have found if there's something that I get out of this, like showing up at a rally, showing up in a march, there is something in the sense of community that you get where if nothing else, you're not alone. Like there's nothing worse than being at home and scrolling Twitter or Facebook or whatever, and just doom scrolling. Cause it's so easy now, especially with the ICE raids. There is one video after another video after another video.

And like it breaks your brain. And I do feel like there's something to be said for at least being around like-minded people and seeing some sense of like, no, we need to fight this.


Well, you've actually gone around a lot of not like-minded people. You've really gone into the belly of the beast in a couple of these assignments. You seem to really find a lot of crazy people. And maybe it's how you write about it so well, but what's your process? How are you finding where to go?

I mean, it's not very hard. Like everyone posts on Facebook and now people hit me up too. They'd be like, Oh, there's this meeting and so and so you should go there. You should go to this one. There are a couple of things about this. It's actually kind of weird. Like I went recently to a meeting and it was at an Elks Club. It was like 40 conservatives in room and Sonja Shaw was speaking. And I mean, she's a different level of crazy actually. A couple of things I find when I go to these events. Number one, I think most people are still nice. I do. Like I always, I don't go in thinking like I'm going to make fun of these people. or, and I do think most people are nice. And I think if you say to most people, you know, we don't agree on this, right? You know, look, I'm from a different type of blah, blah. But I wanted to come and hear. Most people are usually like, that's kind of cool. That's actually cool. I respect that.

I, so that's more, I feel like the people like Sonja Shaw, just as an example, or Lisa Davis or whoever Donald Trump did events, like they want us all to hate each other. It's in their interest for us to hate each other. It's definitely in their interest to have boogie men on the left. But I find most people, even arch conservatives, even MAGA supporters, it doesn't mean you're an asshole. It just means you're misguided. And going to these events actually sometimes reminds me of the humanity in people, which during these times I really need. So I try to go, I try to see the humanity. Oftentimes I, when I write something, I am kind of making fun of the event because they're ridiculous. One thing I really hate that happens right now - and you see it at a lot of events around here - you'll have some TikTok agitator show up at the march in Mission Viejo. And it's actually cruel. It's like some young guy and trying to get a ton of views on TikTok. I'm like, Just being honest, like most of the marchers are senior citizens. And it's actually mean. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. They do not understand the world of TikTok. So you're going up to them with camera in their face and saying like, why do you support blah, blah, blah, blah? Like it's not fair. It's actually cool. You know, it's not cool. So I don't want to be that guy.

Well, Thank you for sharing about how you get in those spaces. And I hope people continue to tell you where to go and where to show up because it's best disinfectant is light. So it's great that you're there in those spaces.

The crazy thing is, just want to say is the one I went to with the, arch, arch, arch conservative. They were serving, uh, like quesadillas and Mexican rice. It was actually weird. The irony of it all was kind of lost on everyone. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Right. And where'd they get it from? I think. Who served it and who prepared the meal. 

One of our favorite things that we've seen about you, and I know in setting this up, you communicated to us was you're just trying to get the message out there. And so you're humble and you have what appears to be no pride of ownership or authorship over this that you just want to highlight and let people get to know what the truth is about Orange County politics.

And you also have been generous in sharing the platform with some guest writers. Your Substack stack is getting something like 4,000 views a day, which is an incredible amount for a local publication. Tell us about working with some of those guest writers and how that's been and how the reception has been from some of the viewers. and listeners.

I'm an adjunct to Chapman and I teach sports journalism at Chapman just once a year. And I love Orange by the way. And It's a great town. Great town. It's a great place to be. And I have students who, you know, we talk on the side past students who I know are sort of liberal and I'll be like, Hey, you want to write something for the site? So almost everyone who's working for the site is a former student of mine.

The person running some of my social media is a, former student of mine. I love having people contribute. I've had different people contribute. love having people contribute. It doesn't need to be me. And also like, again, like I don't care if people are like, do you mind if I take this from your site? I'll credit you. I'm like, you don't have to credit me. Like, I don't care. This isn't about me at all. Zero percent. 

Being a sports writer for a long time, like I've had so much confrontation in my career. Like You go into hostile locker rooms, you're dealing with players that don't like you, you deal with owners, you deal with managers. you tell you to fuck off. Like that's part of the job. right? And early on as a young sports writer, that really bothered me. But over time you really get a thick skin. And I'm just not, I wrote about this recently, like I am not, I'm 0 % afraid of like, like literally 0 % afraid of
someone coming up to me and yelling, Ooh, they're going to yell at you or someone even throwing a punch. You're going to punch me. All right. Well, that'll make me wealthier. mean, I don't like what is a, What exactly is the worst thing that can happen to me? And I can say that in a, this is unfortunate, but like I'm a white guy living in America. right. I'm the easiest group in America as far as like, I have a pretty easy life. Right. So like I, being in this position of I'm financially secure. I'm a white guy in America. I have a voice.

Like, I'm just not afraid of like the backlash. Like, What are you gonna do to me? We're gonna throw down? Like, what are you gonna? I'm just not, you know what mean? I'm not afraid. Like, I'm just not.

I read what you wrote about that and I really appreciated you voicing that because there is a lot of fear.

Yeah. But what am I like, you're to deport me? mean, like, well, That'll be a hell of a story. You know, like, I'm just like, I see so much fear in this country. Understandably. If I were Latino here, undocumented or documented, and I were in Santa Ana right now, I'd be freaking terrified, but I'm not, you know, I'm a white guy who can walk past the ICE raids and they're not going to stop me just by my basis of being a white guy, which is so pathetic and grotesque, but it's a reality. like, I might as well at least use that to try to present the truth of what's going on  the best I can.

And We are so grateful that you are. I mean, it reminds me of our conversation with Chris Kluwe, who said essentially the same thing. Same exact thing. Cisgendered white man, if I can't use my privilege to give the LGBT community part of their respect and part of their voice back. And you two are cut from the same cloth and it's no surprise you two are friends.

Kluwe is a gift from God because he's a former NFL player. That's a very, The NFL, Major League Baseball, et cetera, are very conservative worlds. And even speaking of LGBTQ issues, plus issues, is sort of taboo. I mean, He's the only former NFL player, or NFL player I know who does. And the funny thing about that guy is he, he doesn't really care about football. He didn't care about football. Like this is his passion, you know? It's really commendable.

Interview continues . . .