Vitamin OC Episode 5: Board Certified Licensed Clinical Psychologist Dr. Carli Snyder

In this conversation, board certified licensed clinical psychologist Dr. Carli Snyder explores the evolving dynamics of relationships among young people, the influence of social media and pornography, and the challenges faced by parents in guiding their children through these changes. She highlights the impact of the manosphere on young men's perceptions of masculinity, the normalization of risky sexual behaviors, and the importance of open communication between parents and children. The discussion also emphasizes the need for balance in the lives of youth, encouraging rest and play while navigating the pressures of modern society.

Takeaways

• Young people are having sexual partners much later than previous generations.
• Social media contributes to feelings of loneliness despite being more connected.
• The normalization of risky sexual behaviors is concerning for today's youth.
• Pornography is easily accessible and influences young people's sexual education.
• There is a desire among young women to please, leading to risky behaviors.
• The manosphere promotes toxic masculinity and affects young men's behavior.
• Parents need to reflect rather than react to their children's experiences.
• Open communication about feelings and experiences is crucial for healthy relationships.
• Comparison on social media can lead to mental health issues.
• Encouraging balance and play is essential for youth well-being.

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Transcript

Welcome to Vitamin OC, I'm Joanna Weiss.

And I'm Whitney Gomez. Every week, we bring you your recommended dose of civics and civilization in Orange County.

Well, we are so happy today to be joined by Dr. Carli Snyder. Dr. Snyder is an Orange County based board certified licensed clinical psychologist. She has more than 20 years of experience practicing in Orange County and Nevada.

And we are also so excited to speak with you because you have a specialization in girls and women entering menopause. Thank you for coming.

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

We met decades ago on the East Coast, and it was so much fun to reconnect with you when our sons were playing basketball together. And I had to laugh to know that your specialty is in girls because you have three boys.

Yes.

And of course, all of your expertise and years of experience. Thank you for being here with us. We really appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.

And I'm so excited to speak with you, particularly because I serve on the Orange County Commission on the Status of Women and Girls. And we're so interested to hear your perspectives on where women and girls are today and what their experiences are. For our commission, we're tasked with researching the status of women and girls and gender parity within Orange County, and making recommendations to the Board of Supervisors of policies to implement and programs to suggest to try to reach gender equity.

But if you could share with us what you're seeing with women and girls today.

Today is a very, very interesting time because there's this unprecedented duality, this powerful duality that I'm really seeing with young women and girls. On one hand, they have never been more empowered, more successful, whether it's positions throughout Wall Street, in medical schools as doctors, the young girls winning awards all over the place. But yet, there's more distress.

The duality of it is there's more distress and more mental health issues than ever. But yet, it's a time of such prosperity. The boys are being left behind because so many universities, you'd see sometimes almost a three to one ratio, depending upon what the majors are.

But STEM no longer is just a boy's field. Coding is no longer. I mean, there are still, sometimes you will see more boys, but girls are breaking through.

But again, at the same time, like I said, there's this duality. They've never been more exhausted. There's never been more burnout.

Mental issues are skyrocketed. So it's very sad. It's a time to celebrate, but yet this other piece is the burnout.

And how is that truly sustainable?

In 2015, you started a non-profit called Girl Nation. I think probably to address some of the issues you're talking about. Can you tell us about Girl Nation?

Yes. So 2015, I started Girl Nation, and the mission was to get girls to come together, connect, support each other, elaborate rather than compete. Thought process was we are so much more powerful when we connect.

The reason why I created it was in my own private practice, I had seen, and as well as an eating disorder treatment center I was a part of, I was seeing so much mental illness, so much depression, anxiety, and it seemed as though one of the ongoing factors was that there wasn't this great support system. The girls who were the most sick at the time didn't have a best friend, didn't have a great group of friends. And to me, it was so obvious because I had always had great, great, great girlfriends.

I went to a single sex prep school, so the girls were able to be the president and the vice president. So it was very much girl power. And I remember much healthier females.

All the girls I knew that were good athletes tended to have better self-esteem because they were part of a team. So it was really a whole wellness workshop. But it was all about getting girls from different schools together and forming a bond so they could talk about what was going on at school.

And so the hope was to create a connection with them, or at least they leave understanding the power of a community and hoping that they could find their own, whether it's at school with a good friend group, or maybe at church somewhere.

Great. That sounds like an incredible program.

I can only imagine with your background, you've seen how eating disorders have maybe changed over the last 20 years, and with the proliferation of social media, the impact of that on women and girls. Is there some advice that you can give to people in what we can be doing with social media to try to make sure that they are healthy?

One of the big things I've noticed is that a lot of times there's this obsession of good food, bad food, and I think early on girls will look at foods as good and bad, and then they identify themselves if they eat it as good and bad. So I think early on as a parent, maybe not using those words, and all food is food, right? I mean, obviously some, we don't want our children to eat, but at the same time, I think if we make a big deal about food, we're really putting it in their head that they can't eat it.

So I think having healthier foods, healthier alternatives, but I think not to make a big deal about food. And another thing that I've seen a lot with a lot of the girls over the years is just a lot of times, and we're talking more when it becomes a true diagnosis. I think most girls have some kind of disordered eating.

It's when it becomes a true anorexia or bulimia. I think you can't get away from disordered eating or some kind of disordered thinking. It's everywhere, as you both know as women, being our age even.

It wasn't that different when we were kids, right? It was being in line at the grocery store and seeing magazines. Now they're just seeing it on their phones.

I mean, things were altered when we were younger.

I remember reading that women who spent time looking at magazines were immediately afterwards have a real decline in their self-esteem.

Yes, absolutely. If you do notice that your daughter is struggling and you notice that maybe she's not eating as much or maybe she's... A lot of times, when girls lose weight, you think sometimes they'll start wearing less clothes.

But when it's truly disordered, they tend to wear bigger clothes to conceal. And you just notice a change in behavior. And also from lack of nutrition, you notice irritability, more behavioral issues.

When you start to see those kind of things, to get help quick is another thing with eating disorders. I think they can be very difficult to work with. The longer someone suffers from it, what you also see a lot of time is trouble concentrating in school, like the comprehension.

I mean, think about it. Our brain needs to be fed. Nutritionally, it needs to drink water.

But I do think one of the scary things online is, you know, all these tricks on what to do and how to hide it and how to kind of cut these corners. And that can be really scary. So I think it's important to sometimes know who your children follow, who do they look up to, who are these influencers or even their friends at school, the older girls, or even their peers, if you notice a change with their friends, thatthat their friends look different.

Eating disorders are obviously a really challenging diagnosis, but I want to take us out of the frying pan and put us even further into the fire, Carli, and I want to ask you about sex. There's a new book out by a young reporter from The Guardian called The Second Coming. And for this book, she interviewed 100 or so people in college, people in their early 20s, to talk about what's going on with their sexual relationships.

And her conclusion is that younger people today are having far, far less sex than prior generations. And she attributes this to the overturning of Roe v. Wade, the Me Too movement, politics, and the divide there.

What are you hearing from your patients and what do you know about what's going on with sex in this new generation?

I definitely think that it's added to it, but I do believe the research came out even way before the Roe v. Wade situation, and that was that the generation has never been more connected, but yet more lonely. And I think a lot of it has to do with the kids just not going to parties as much.

A lot of this generation is not getting their driver's license necessarily at 16, and a lot of the things that Gen X did, they are not doing. A lot of teenager, young adult, chalk to college never having a boyfriend or a girlfriend, or graduate college never having a relationship. There's a very big poke up culture, but real true intimacy, they're not having.

As far as the sex goes, I do think it's not one thing. And I do think with social media and just this expectation of having this perfect experience, and this everyone seeing everyone's highlight life, and that to take chances, and that fear of failure, and that fear of rejection, and putting yourself out there, I can't help but wonder if this is all playing into it. So I do think all of it has had enough back.

Okay, and since I'm taking us down this path, I'm just going to go for it and ask you something that's been plaguing me for about a year and a half. I read an article a while back about the very common practice of choking in sexual encounters among particularly high school and college students. And I just want to share these statistics and make sure I'm precise with them because they were so shocking to me.

One of the foremost experts in American sexual behavior found in her research that two thirds of 5,000 college students that she surveyed had been choked during sex, and one third had been choked in their most recent encounter. And 40% of the women who had been choked said that they had been choked between the ages of 12 and 17. What do you know about choking?

12. I mean, let that sink in.

A 12-year-old.

Yeah, I mean, I know about the research, but hearing the ages is just unbelievable. I think part of what we're seeing is that mainstream porn is showing that. And sadly, it is so accessible.

And to get to these really harsh, tough videos, you can be a 10-year-old boy and Google boobs. And you will be taken to these mainstream, mainstream porn sites. And that is what you're going to see.

I think shows like Euphoria, which have won tons of awards, and a lot of the TikToks that are out there talk about this, or they see it, and that it's become almost normative behavior. And then on top of it, you have a lot of girls who believe that pleasing, and that is okay, and that this is somewhat expected of them. So it's an awful statistic, but not so off from what's going on.

It's truly shocking. And one thing I hope is the older generation, Gen X and up, can tell these young women that isn't normal. It's not only harmful for them physically, but it is also harmful for their psyche.

It's demeaning. It's uncomfortable, disrespectful. I hate to judge another generation.

I would normally maybe withhold if it was something different, but for girls to be experiencing this, I believe there's probably some psychological trauma that comes along with it.

How can there not be? I mean, it is such a vulnerable state to be in, to have somebody with their hands around your neck. And I can't imagine that there's not trauma associated with that.

There is an adrenaline response that happens, that biologically the body creates when people start having normal sex again, that arousal is not there. So there is more sexual dysfunction and erectile dysfunction in young boys.

Wow. You mentioned before the manosphere, and we've seen this cultural shift in genders and gender socialization, and more men joining anti-feminists, online culture, and toxic masculinity, or conservative view of masculinity that borders on toxic. Can you talk a little bit about what you're saying in regards to that, and how it's impacting young women?

It does seem as though as girls have become more empowered, boys have felt left behind and maybe disempowered. And people who feel hurt hurt other people. I always say that about my Girl Nation days, whenever we would talk about the mean girls, I would always talk to them about girls who feel hurt are the ones that hurt others.

So that sometimes the mean girl is the girl that's really just feeling sad inside. And I think the same thing, it's human nature. The same thing seems to be happening in this manosphere, the bro culture of boys, men feeling disempowered and feelings of shame.

And whether it's because women are now running the world, which they're not, but there's this feeling when there are these more women CFOs out there and women CEOs or which I experienced just last week, the end of the high school graduation award ceremony where the girls took all the awards. And as a boy mom, as much as I'm all about girl power, it was hard to not see some of the boys who I find to be incredible not win some awards. I mean, truly it was all girls with some boys sprinkled here and there, but I mean, I would say 90% were girls.

Wow. Winning awards.

Yeah, it was very, very girl heavy. And I'm sure these women, these young women are extraordinary, but I cannot wonder if that does not affect the boys. And my son didn't have an issue with it.

I think he's fine with it. But there are many boys out there that probably were a little bit bitter. It's not one thing, but a lot of just coming together of many different behaviors and different psychological experiences.

One of the best books that I read on this topic, because I have two daughters and then a son. So it is different raising a boy. This economist named Richard Reeves wrote a very well-received book called A Boys and Men.

Richard Reeves spoke at the Newport Beach Public Library last year. I think the video might be available online for those who are interested. It was excellent, and it got into some of the root causes for the Manosphere, and some of the culture that so many young men are turning to now.

It's a suicide epidemic, the loneliness epidemic, a lot going on with young men.

Yes, absolutely. And the expectations, the unrealistic expectations on boys as well, that they're supposed to be rich, and drive nice cars, and have six-packs. It's not just girls anymore.

I mean, the boys are feeling, I've had more boy patients in the past. Since COVID, I've had more boy clients, which I really have enjoyed. And it's such a wonderful experience to work with young men, and help them become more vulnerable, and help them work through some of these issues that I think feel so shaming.

Depression and anxiety, that is a feeling of, in the past, I think boys would go right to feeling agitated, where now they're actually telling their moms, I feel anxious and depressed. Whereas that was unheard of years ago. And when you would hear about depression with young men, it was more agitation and anger, and not so much sadness, which girls will talk more about.

Not to jump from difficult topic to difficult topic, but my daughter sent me an article a couple of weeks ago that just put a knife through my heart, and it cited a significant percentage of young people in their 20s and 30s going no contact with their parents, which is honestly my greatest nightmare. What do you think about that dynamic? What do you think is driving that situation?

I think we are living in a life of overcorrection. I think it's this overcorrection going on everywhere. There's so much online these days.

Diagnosing parents as narcissistic personality disorders in young people. Your mom is borderline, this is what you have to do. And so I do think that's part of it.

Everyone's getting free therapy online, and they think they can't talk to their parents, so they're no contact. That's the way to handle it. And or it's a boundary, you know, everyone's learning about setting boundaries.

Boundaries is the new hot word. And I remember I would try to talk to my clients about boundaries year, 20 years ago, but now it's like everyone knows that word. So I do think it's this once again, this, you know, correction and that I'm setting up a boundary and no contact.

And and I think it's really sad because I do believe, obviously, there are definitely many parents out there that would become defensive if their child came to them. But there are a lot of parents out there that would probably be willing to work with their children if their children would come to them and say, this is how I feel.

I understand if someone has been incredibly physically abusive, and there are there are limited circumstances. Of course, no contact would be appropriate. But for just kind of a run in the mill parent who maybe could work on their communication skills or whatever the reason, that it's way too much to tear a family apart that way, that it just seems like that's a social media trend that is really bad for our families.

Yes, and we're all perfectly imperfect, right? We're all flawed and life is messy. But I think if we can be open to learning from our children, and maybe be willing to listen, we all can grow.

I mean, I believe we're all growing always. And the second you're unwilling to grow is really a sad day.

Well, we've talked about social media and the ill of social media. And do you have any sort of suggestions or guardrails that you could recommend for parents of different age children to help them navigate social media to minimize the harms of that on their kids?

Listen, we all probably spend too many hours. So putting restrictions on ourselves, they help. But I think it's more about just having better digital literacy.

And that is just understanding how you feel with the time that you spend online. You can't tell your child. I mean, the digital world is an extension of them.

It is not separate anymore. It is their life. So you can't take away their life.

So you have to help them just make better choices in their life. So how do you feel on Instagram when you're done? How do you feel on TikTok when you're done?

How do you feel? Who are the people you follow that are inspiring? Who are the people you follow that maybe make you not feel so great?

So I think part of it is taking the time to just check in yourself and see how you feel. So we talked about earlier with how the research shows the more times you spend looking through fashion magazines growing up, the more depressed girls would feel. And it's the same with online time.

They're finding, you know, the more the more time you spend online, the higher depression. What are you watching that is making you feel that way? Are you feeling envy?

Are you feeling jealousy? Are you feeling depressed? And understanding what that's about.

Sometimes just checking in on your mood and having your kids check in on their moods can be very helpful.

And one thing that I've noticed in the past couple of months is I've been suckered by a couple of AI generated videos online, and it was my son who said, Mom, that's not a real video. So I hope that as they are more literate about AI generated pictures and videos, that they can kind of understand that not everything's real.

Great point. And I do believe also reminding them of all the filters out there, they all use it. They all know how to use it themselves, but to remember everything they're looking at is also used.

And there are some really good ones. I mean, you can give yourself a six pack, you can be our age and give yourself a six pack and probably put a two piece on. I mean, I can't even imagine, because I don't know how to use them.

I wish I did, but it's okay. It's better off. I don't know how to.

But I do think there are some really good ones. And the kids know how to stand. They know how to maneuver their face.

They know how to put makeup on. And they're all perfection already, and then filtering themselves. So they need to remember that everything they're looking at, and all these people that they are, you know, following and wanting to be like, are also doing the same thing.

And that there's people who are also getting paid a lot of money. So remember, and that products are being thrown at them, and clothes are being thrown at them. So they're selling something.

So just like when we were young, and we would watch TV shows, and we would win every serial and every commercial, because we didn't realize that it was all marketing. We're being marketed too. So I think just some really good digital education.

Carli, thank you so much for all of this great advice. We sincerely appreciate your time. We know you have to give back to patients.

Is there any one final thought that you want to share with our listeners?

Comparison is the thief of all joy. And this generation, all they do is compare themselves. Boys and girls and grownups like us, everyone's just comparing themselves.

So we all have to remember that, right?

That's a great piece of advice.

It's nothing we start to compare. It's never a good day.

Well, thank you Carli so much for being with us today. And to our listeners, thank you for joining us for your recommended dose of civics and civilization.

We'll see you next time on Vitamin OC.