Clearing the Air - Unpacking the Tobacco and Vapes Bill

While everyone may be talking about the Chancellor's Spring Statement earlier today, our misson at 'The Bench Report' is to highlight other debates and committees that may go unheralded, but are extremely important. Today we look at the Tobacco and Vapes Bill, a landmark piece of legislation aiming to create a smokefree generation in the UK. 

We unpack the key clauses and amendments discussed in Parliament, revealing the complexities and controversies surrounding this significant public health intervention. From the generational smoking ban preventing tobacco sales to those born after 2009, to the stricter regulations on vaping products aimed at curbing youth uptake, we explore the arguments for and against these measures.

We examine the proposed changes to age verification for tobacco and vape sales, including the potential for digital ID. Discover the contentious discussions on advertising bans for vapes and nicotine products, and the potential exemptions for specialist vape shops. We also analyse the debates around extending smokefree areas and the concerns raised about a potential rise in the illegal tobacco and vape market. Plus, we touch upon discussions regarding contaminated e-liquids and a potential ban on cigarette filters.

Source: Hansard - Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Key Takeaways:

• The Bill proposes a generational ban on tobacco sales.
• New measures aim to strengthen age verification for tobacco and vaping products, potentially including digital methods.
• There are debates around a total ban on vape advertising with potential exemptions for specialist retailers.
• The Bill considers extending smokefree areas to protect against second-hand smoke.
• Concerns exist about a potential increase in the illegal trade of tobacco and vapes.
• Discussions included the need for reviews on contaminated e-liquids.
• A proposal was made to ban cigarette filters for environmental reasons.
• The government emphasises the aim to create a smokefree generation and reduce youth vaping.
• Vaping is acknowl

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No outside chatter: source material only taken from Hansard and the Parliament UK website.  

Contains Parliamentary information repurposed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0....

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to another Bench Report. We are your hosts, Amy and Ivan.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

As always, do take a look at the episode notes to guide you through our discussion today.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Now, while everyone's attention is understandably on the chancellor's spring statement.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Yeah, all the buzz is about the spring statement.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Well, we thought we'd take a look at something a little different.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

A different kind of debate. A bill, actually.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

The

SPEAKER_00 0:23

tobacco and vapes bill that was in a discussion back on the 26th of March, 2025. That's

SPEAKER_01 0:29

right. It's a pretty significant piece of legislation, wouldn't you say?

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Definitely. It has the potential to really shake things up in terms of public health policy. And You know, it touches on a lot of sensitive areas.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

It does. So we wanted to kind of dive into this and really unpack the different facets of this bill, you know, see what's actually being proposed.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Yeah. Understand the core arguments for and against.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

What it could mean for public health, of course.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

But also thinking about... individual freedoms.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Right. Because there are a lot of considerations here. You know, are we talking about a nanny state or are we talking about really protecting public health? And where's that line? I mean, that's that's really where the debate is.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

That's the heart of it. And to get to the bottom of all of this, you know, we've been digging into a bunch of materials.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yeah. What kind of stuff have we been looking at?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Excerpts straight from the bill itself. Details of these new clauses that have been put forward. And We've got the actual substance of the amendments that were debated in Parliament.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

That's right. We've got a lot to cover, so let's jump in. Clause 1 is where things get really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

That's the one.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

It's where the fireworks start, wouldn't you say?

Generational 'rolling' ban

SPEAKER_00 1:41

It's where the battle lines are drawn, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Right. So tell me a little bit about this generational ban. What does that even mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Okay. So Clause 1 essentially wants to make it illegal— to sell tobacco products to anyone born on or after the 1st of January 2009.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

The idea, they're calling it, to establish a smoke-free generation by gradually preventing these younger groups from ever being able to legally buy tobacco. It's a big swing.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

It is a big swing. So what are the arguments that people are using to support such a drastic measure, I guess you could say?

SPEAKER_00 2:19

I mean, the supporters of the bill, their main argument is This is a crucial move to protect future generations from this tremendously harmful product, incredibly addictive product.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

And there are some pretty stark statistics around smoking,

SPEAKER_00 2:32

right? Oh, absolutely. We're talking about roughly 80,000 deaths each year in the UK that are linked to smoking.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

It's estimated that about one in four cancer deaths can be attributed to tobacco use.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

I mean, these numbers are huge.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

They're massive.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

And beyond just the tragedy of the human cost, we're talking about a massive economic impact Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

The cost to the NHS to treat all these smoking-related illnesses, it's estimated to be about 3 billion pounds each year. And when you include things like lost productivity because of smoking-related health issues, the total cost to the economy, they think, is something like 18 billion per year.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

So the arguments are pretty strong for at least considering this. I mean, in terms of saving lives and saving money. Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

That's right. It's about preventing that suffering. You know, they also really emphasize how addictive nicotine is. And we heard in the debates that, you know, tobacco sadly kills about two thirds of its long term users.

UNKNOWN 3:31

Mm hmm.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

And a huge majority of smokers, about three quarters, they actually say they wish they never started.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

So this ban, this generational ban, it's all about preventing those regrets for younger people, trying to make sure they don't fall into that trap.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

That's really interesting. Now, this generational ban is a major part of the bill, but there are other ideas floating around as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Oh, yeah, there were.

Raising legal age to purchase to 21

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Some amendments, in particular, Amendment 4. So tell me a little bit about that. What did that propose?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

So Amendment 4 took a different tack. Instead of this, you know, birth year ban, It suggested just raising the legal smoking age to 21 across the board.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

So, you know, everybody, no matter when they were born, would have to wait till they're 21 to buy tobacco.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

So a consistent age limit rather than this rolling ban.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

What were the arguments for taking that approach?

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Well, some people, they had some really practical concerns about the generational ban. You know, how do you actually enforce this thing long term?

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

How can shops reliably tell the difference between adults who might be, you know, very close in age, but born on either side of that 2009 cutoff?

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Oh, yeah. That would create some pretty awkward situations, wouldn't

SPEAKER_00 4:41

it? Yeah. Imagine being a shop worker having to police that. It could be very, very tricky.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

I can see that leading to some tense moments at the till.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

So

SPEAKER_01 4:50

enforceability is a big issue.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Yeah, huge one. And then there was this worry about driving more people towards the black market for tobacco. They brought up Australia as an example. However, there, their really high taxes on tobacco, while well-intentioned, actually ended up boosting the black market. Yeah. went underground to get their smokes.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

So it's this kind of unintended consequence of trying to do the right thing.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Exactly. It's this balancing act. You want to discourage smoking, but you also don't want to create a situation where the illegal trade becomes even more appealing.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Right. Because then you're losing control over the quality of the product. Who knows what people are actually getting?

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Exactly. It could be even more dangerous. And then on top of that, those who were pushing for raising the age to 21, they argued that it could, you know, achieve pretty similar long term results.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Oh, really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Some modeling suggested that raising the age to 21 could still lead to pretty much zero tobacco consumption by 2050.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

That's interesting. So it's like, okay, if we can achieve... similar goals without the hassle and the ethical dilemmas.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Exactly. They also talk about the fairness of it. They didn't like the idea of creating these two tiers of adults. Oh, you know, where people of basically the same age would have different legal rights just because of when they happen to be born.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Yeah, it does feel a bit arbitrary, doesn't it? When you put it like that.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yeah. Some people felt very strongly about that.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

OK, so we have the generational ban. We have raising the age to 21. Were there any other amendments or suggestions to kind of tackle this?

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Oh, yeah, for Sure. Some amendments, like Amendment 103 and a few others, actually wanted to get rid of Clause 1 entirely, just scrap the whole generational ban idea.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Wow. Okay, so there's a real spectrum of opinions on

SPEAKER_00 6:31

this. Oh, yeah. Strong feelings on all sides. It really comes down to how much you think the state should intervene in personal choices and how you weigh the potential benefits against the possible downsides.

Vaping regulation

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Right. Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Now, it's not just about tobacco, though, is it?

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Oh, no. Vaping is a whole other kettle of fish.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Exactly. A big chunk of the bill is focused on on how to regulate vaping, particularly among young people.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah. You know, It's almost become a bit of an epidemic, hasn't it? And a lot of people are worried about the long-term health impacts, especially for those who start vaping at a young age.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Absolutely. It's a real concern.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

So what kind of concrete measures were they discussing?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Well, new Clause 11 and some related government amendments, they were all about making online age verification much stricter.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Oh, right. So trying to stop kids from buying vapes online.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Exactly. You know, it's so easy for young people to get around age checks online.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

So they want to make sure those systems are really, really robust, make it much harder for kids to get their hands on these products.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

And what about the actual stuff inside these vapes? I know there were some discussions about contaminated e-liquids.

Contaminated vapes

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Oh, yeah, that's a huge worry. New Clause 1 actually called for a proper investigation into this whole issue of contaminated vapes. You know, some research from the University of Bath, they actually found spice, that synthetic cannabinoid, in vapes that were being used in schools.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

That's scary.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

It's really disturbing. And there were reports of other things being found too, you know, ketamine, even MDMA.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

So you've got kids vaping thinking they're just, you know, getting a nicotine hit and actually they're ingesting who knows what.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Yeah, it's a very dangerous situation. And, you know, some people were arguing that if you ban disposable vapes, which, you know, is supposed to be good for the environment and maybe reduce youth access, it could actually push people towards refillable vapes.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

And those are potentially easier to tamper with.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Right. Right. So you could actually end up with more contaminated vapes in circulation.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Potentially. It's not a simple solution, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

So it sounds like they need to think very carefully about all the possible repercussions before they jump in with a ban.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Definitely. It's about, you know, trying to predict the unintended consequences. It's not always straightforward.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Okay. So then what else were they looking at in terms of trying to stop young people from vaping?

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Well, there were some really interesting ideas on the table. New Clauses 6 and 7, for example. These were quite radical.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Oh, what were those about?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

They were talking about actually building age verification technology directly into the vapes themselves.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Wow, that's pretty futuristic. How would that even work?

SPEAKER_00 9:10

So the idea is that the vape would essentially be locked. You wouldn't be able to use it. Until it got confirmation from a linked app on your phone or something that... The user was over 18.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

So like a digital lock on the vape itself.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Exactly. I

SPEAKER_01 9:27

mean, I can see the benefits of that, obviously. But how practical is it?

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Well, that's the big question, isn't it? It would be a huge undertaking. You'd need to get all the manufacturers on board.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Figure out how to do it in a way that's secure, you know, so people can't hack the system.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

And

SPEAKER_00 9:42

then there are all the privacy concerns involved. Oh,

SPEAKER_01 9:45

yeah, because you're basically collecting data on people's vaping habits.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Exactly. It's really fascinating, though, when you think about

SPEAKER_01 9:52

it. It's like the future of regulation.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

It is. You know, embedding technology directly into products to control who can use them. It raises all sorts of interesting questions.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

For sure. And it wasn't just the age verification. They were also looking at the actual design of vapes, weren't they?

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Yeah, they were.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

In particular, Amendment 36.

Design of disposable vapes and flavours

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Right. Amendment 36 was all about giving the government the power to regulate the design, the look, the feel of vapes. And the big target was these high-puff vapes. count disposables,

SPEAKER_01 10:24

the ones that seem to be so popular with young people.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

They're cheap and they last longer.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

That's right. And, you know, they're colorful. They come in all these different flavors. They're very appealing.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

So

SPEAKER_00 10:34

the amendment was basically trying to stop these kinds of devices from being sold altogether.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Okay, so trying to make them less attractive to that younger market.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

What about the whole debate around flavors?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Because

SPEAKER_01 10:47

that seems to be a big sticking point.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

It's huge. And Amendment 37, it tackled that head-on. But it took a slightly different approach. Instead of banning specific flavors outright, it focused on the words used to describe them.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

So, you know, more gummy bear or bubble gum or those kinds of things that are clearly aimed at kids. Right. Adult smokers, you know, who are using vapes to try and quit, they'd still be able to get flavors that they find helpful.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

So it's like we recognize that some flavors can be appealing to adults as well, and it's not fair to take that away from them.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Exactly. It's about trying to find that balance.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Yeah. Make it less appealing to kids without punishing adults who are, you know, trying to do the right thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

And then, of course, there's the whole advertising question.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Oh, yeah, because that's a big part of how these products are marketed, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 11:42

It is. And New Clause 8, that was pretty radical. It called for a complete ban on all vaping advertising, full stop.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Wow, so no more billboards, no more online ads.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Nothing. But a lot of people, they raised concerns about that.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah, I can imagine.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

They were saying, well, hang on, if we ban all advertising, how are adult smokers going to find out about vaping?

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

You know, how are they going to learn that it's potentially a less harmful alternative?

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yeah. It's like you're cutting off a route to information.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Especially if you've got people who are, you know, lifelong smokers.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Right. They might not even know that these alternatives exist.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Yeah. So it's a bit of a catch-22, isn't it? You want to protect kids, but you also want to give adults the information they need.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

That's right. So some other amendments, like Amendment 46 and New Clause 9, they tried to address this.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Oh, how so?

SPEAKER_00 12:32

They suggested that you could still have ads for these products, but only in adult only environments.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Oh, I see. So like pubs and clubs, places where kids aren't allowed anyway.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

But they also said those ads would have to carry some pretty strong warnings.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Oh, yeah. Very clear warnings. Things like strictly for adult smokers or even quoting the chief medical officer.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Like if you don't smoke, don't vape kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

That's right. It's about trying to target the message, get the information to the right people. Right. Right. And, you know, it's interesting because a lot of smokers actually think vaping is just as bad as smoking.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

They don't realize that, you know, the science is still developing, but it seems to be a less harmful option.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Exactly. So there's definitely a need for education there.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Yeah. So I guess the debate is really all about striking that balance.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Protecting kids while also giving adults the information they need to make informed choices.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Exactly.

Capacity of e-liquid tanks, pods and refill containers

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Okay. And were there any... Any proposals to regulate like the actual physical characteristics of vapes, like the size or how much e-liquid they could hold?

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah, absolutely. New Clause 21 was all about that. It wanted to limit e-liquid tanks and pods to a maximum of two milliliters. And any refill containers, they could only be 10 milliliter max.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

So that was specifically targeting those really large capacity vapes.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Exactly. You know, the ones that can hold a lot of e-liquid and deliver loads and loads of puffs.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Right. Trying to prevent people from getting around the disposable vape ban Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

And then New Clause 20 was focused on online businesses. It basically said they'd have to have proper age verification systems in place.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

So not just relying on people picking a box to say they're over 18.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Exactly. They need to have a robust system to actually check that the buyer is of legal age.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

OK, so that's all about tobacco and vaping. But the bill also included a whole bunch of other things, didn't it?

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Oh, yeah, it was pretty comprehensive.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Broader public health measures, stuff like that.

Licensing schemes

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Yeah, things like licensing schemes for retailers. That was a big one.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Oh,

SPEAKER_00 14:39

right. Because 18 and Amendment 89, they were all about that.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

So instead of just anyone being able to sell these products, you'd have to get a special license.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Exactly. And the idea was that before they actually introduced this licensing scheme, they'd consult with all the different people involved.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

So shops, local authorities, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

To make sure the scheme was actually workable.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

And fair to everyone.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Right. And there's some really good arguments for that. It's about making sure that the people who are actually selling these products are doing it responsibly.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah, that makes sense. And what about illegal tobacco and vapes? Was there anything about trying to crack down on that?

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Oh, yeah. New Clause 19 was all about that. It proposed these annual reports to keep track of illegal sales. Where are they being sold? How much is being sold? Just to keep an eye on the Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 15:27

to see if it's growing as a result of all these new regulations.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Exactly. Yeah. Because that was a big concern for a lot of people, that by making it harder to buy these products legally, you might just push people towards the illegal market.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Yeah. So monitoring that is really important.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Absolutely.

Smoke free areas

SPEAKER_01 15:43

And there was also some discussion about expanding smoke-free areas, wasn't there?

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Oh, yeah. They were talking about that. The government was... hinting at extending these zones to places like school grounds, playgrounds, hospitals, places where children and vulnerable people are.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

So it's about protecting those who are most at risk.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

But they weren't talking about extending it to private outdoor spaces like pub gardens.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

No, that was a specific carve out. They said that wouldn't be on the table, at least not for now.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

OK. And were there any kind of bigger picture public health strategies being discussed alongside all of this?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Yeah, definitely. New class 13. That was really ambitious.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

What did that propose?

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Five year roadmap to try and make the UK completely smoke free.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Wow. So like a long term plan to tackle smoking at every level.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Exactly. And it included specific targets for groups with high smoking rates, pregnant women, people with mental health issues.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

So a much more targeted approach to try and reach those who are most affected.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Yeah. And there was this interesting idea in Amendment 1 about all the fines they collect from people breaking the new rules. They should use that money. for local public health projects.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Oh, that's a good idea. So the money that's generated by enforcing these rules actually goes back into improving public health.

Nicotine patches

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Exactly. It's like a virtuous circle. And then new clause four was specifically about Nicotine pouches. They wanted to ban the really high strength ones, the ones with more than 20 milligrams of nicotine.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Because those can be really

SPEAKER_00 17:19

addictive. Exactly. And they can deliver a really strong hit of nicotine very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Right. Which is especially dangerous for young people who are, you know, more susceptible to addiction.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Exactly. And there was also talk of banning all online sales of tobacco products.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Wow. Okay. So it's really about trying to close off every avenue.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yeah. Make it as difficult as possible for people to get their hands on tobacco.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

And there was also something about how these products are displayed in shops, wasn't there?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Oh, yeah. Amendment 10. That was focused on England specifically.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

It was all about trying to restrict advertising in shops.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

You know, making it harder for kids to see these products.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Right. Because even if they can't buy them, Just seeing them everywhere can be a trigger.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Normalizes it.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Yeah. But they also wanted to make sure that adults who do smoke, you know, they still know where to find these products.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

So it's about trying to balance, you know, reducing the appeal to young people while still acknowledging the reality that adults do smoke.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

And finally, there's something about a review of the whole act, wasn't there?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Oh, yeah. New Clause 12 says, proposed that they should review the whole Tobacco and Vapes Act after five years.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Oh, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yeah, just to see how it's working in practice. You know, are the measures effective? Are there any unintended consequences? Just to make sure it's doing what it's supposed to do.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yeah. You have to keep these things under review, don't you? Because things change so quickly.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Absolutely. Yeah. You know, the whole vaping landscape is constantly evolving, so it's important to be able to adapt the regulations as needed.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

For sure.

UNKNOWN 18:55

Music

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Now, one last thing before we wrap up. There was some brief discussion about the implications of this bill for Northern Ireland.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Oh, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

And some concerns were raised about potential conflicts with EU law.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah, specifically around the Windsor framework and some existing EU directives on tobacco.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

So the argument was that certain parts of the bill might not actually be compatible with EU law.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Right. And this was mainly brought up by Jim Allister. He was pretty vocal about it. But the UK government, they insisted that the bill is perfectly in line with all their legal obligations under the Windsor framework.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

So a bit of a legal gray area there potentially.

Conclusions

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Yeah. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Okay. Well, we've covered a lot of ground today.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

We have. This bill is a real beast.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

It is. It really is. It really highlights the complexity of trying to balance public health goals with individual freedoms.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Absolutely. It's a tightrope walk. And, you know, we've seen that there are very strong opinions on all sides.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Yeah. It's definitely a topic that gets people fired up.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

It does. And rightly so, I think. These are important issues.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Absolutely. Well, we'll be following the progress of this bill very closely.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what happens next.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

And in the meantime, please subscribe to The Bench Report.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Find us on social media at BenchReportUK.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Take care.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

And while you're mulling all of this over, we'd love for you to consider what's the most effective and ethically sound way to tackle smoking and protect those future generations. It's a tough question with no easy answers.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

But it's one worth thinking about.