Breast Cancer Couldn’t Stop Her: Rebuilding at 50 and Thriving at 60

🎙️ Episode Summary

At 42, Zulma walked into a classroom with determination and a clear sense of who she was.
At 46, just two months after graduation, she was diagnosed with breast cancer.
At 50, she chose to pursue her master’s degree and begin again.
At 60, she chose her mind, body, and soul and moved to Panama to build a life aligned with freedom.

But between those milestones lies a hidden chapter.

In this episode, Zulma shares what it was like to face a breast cancer diagnosis in midlife while remaining grounded in her strength. She takes us into the quiet reality of treatment, the hard days when strength did not feel strong, and the decision to return to Argentina to focus on healing before rebuilding her life.

We talk about what it means to start over after breast cancer, to listen to your body instead of pushing through, and to believe in another dream when most people would have slowed down.

This is a story about rebuilding your life in midlife. Not because you lost who you were. But because you chose to grow again.

What We Talk About in This Episode:

 • The emotional weight of a breast cancer diagnosis at 46
 • The day strength did not feel strong
 • Letting go of plans to prioritize healing
 • Listening to your body after survival mode
 • Becoming a therapist shaped by lived experience
 • Grief and freedom in a move to Panama
 • Honoring your internal hero in ordinary life

The Hidden Chapter Moment

Zulma’s hidden chapter was not just the breast cancer diagnosis.

It was the season where she had to stop.

Where achievement paused.
Where plans unraveled.
Where her body asked for attention instead of ambition.

That moment could have defined her by loss.

Instead, it became the turning point where she rebuilt her life in midlife.

Rather than rushing back into productivity, she chose healing. Rather than seeing herself as a victim of what she survived, she began to see herself as someone becoming again.

Resources and Mentions:

🦋 Dragonfly Therapy Services
www.dragonflytherapyservices.net

🎙️  Host of Keeping It Real with Zulma The Swearing Therapist Podcast

📩 Email: dragonflytslv@gmail.com

🔗 🎙️🎧 Zulma and I met from Podmatch.com https://www.joinpodmatch.com/genevievekruger

Transcript

Genevieve 0:00

This is Hidden Chapters, the podcast where we slow down and listen to the parts of our stories that often go unseen. Hi, I'm your host, Genevieve. Today I'm talking with Selma, a woman full of life. A woman who reminds us that it is never too late to begin again. At 42, she went back to school to earn her bachelor's degree. After that, she faced cancer and survived. At 50, she returned once more to earn her master's degree. And at 60, she moved to Panama, choosing adventure and possibility or comfort and fear. In this conversation, Zolma and I talk about what it means to keep saying yes to life, even after hardship. We talk about resilience, reinvention, and the belief that no matter what you've walked through, there is still more life waiting for you. This is Zelma's hidden chapter. Well, Zoma, thank you so much for being on my podcast. I was so excited when we met through PodMatch.com, and your story was so intriguing. So I am excited to hear your journey and your story. Thank you for having me. Of course. All right, so before we talk about your story in cancer or your big milestones, how would you describe yourself in the years right before everything changed?

Zulma 1:20

I will, believe it or not, I will describe myself as a people pleaser. I was trying to bend myself backwards to make you happy and make him happy and make that person happy. And that is an impossible task. So for everybody listening, that's not your job.

Genevieve 1:42

That's true. I have, I am, I'm not gonna say I'm recovering because I'm still going through it, but I have issues with being a people pleaser.

Zulma 1:51

Yes. So I am a people pleaser in recovery, but uh sometimes it it shows up, and I and I say that is um uh in human nature, but it's like it's not your job. Happiness is a personal decision for each one of us, and no matter how backwards I bent, if you don't want to be happy with me, you are not you are making that decision. And once everything that you mentioned happened and I learned that, I'm like, oh, okay. It was a huge weight lifted off my shoulders because it's like, oh, I don't have to make anybody happy. Right.

Genevieve 2:36

Just make yourself happy. Yeah. Yes. So I wish that we would have met seasons before your cancer entered the picture, but what were you working toward or hoping for in that season before the big shift?

Zulma 2:48

So I would just graduated with my bachelor of social work, which I had started at 42. In I was 46. I so I was on track to do my master's. And um, and I got the big news because life is what happens when you have other plans.

Genevieve 3:05

Well, you said uh I had cancer, but cancer didn't have me. I loved that motto when you and I got to talk and meet. So take me to that moment where that motto at that time just didn't feel true yet, and what was happening for you?

Zulma 3:19

Yes, so when in that motto can be applied to any challenge that anybody is currently facing, right? It doesn't have to be cancer, but right before that became my motto, I was so when I first got diagnosed, I started asking, why me? And I stay in that state, which is uh a mindset of victimhood, right? Like, why me? Yeah, uh, and I started thinking, like, well, at the time my mom was alive, I I don't have children of my own, but I had my mom and I had my sister and I had nieces and I had girlfriends, and then I started thinking, if it's not me, would I have preferred that it was one of them? And the answer is no, right? So that's when I changed my mindset to from being a victim to being a fighter. So uh it the question became why not me, and then I had to come up with an answer for that question. And my options were to just sit there and wait to die or to stand up and fight. Spoiler alert, here I am 14 years later, right? So, but um I had cancer, cancer didn't happen me, means that despite having that diagnosis and that challenge, I didn't allow to stop my life and my goals. Yeah, and we all go through challenges, so whatever challenge you are facing right now, you can make a decision to not allow that challenge to own you.

Genevieve 5:22

Would you say you always had that, or did that something that had to become developed over the years?

Zulma 5:27

No, I I didn't. I as I said, like at the very beginning of the diagnosis, I was like, why me? And then I changed to the why not me. And then it then it became kind of like a different mindset for a lot of other things and challenges that came after, but uh it wasn't always like that because we are human, right? And it's like, oh, why I we always compare to people who are doing bet better than we are, and it's like, oh, but I am better than a lot of other people, even with a cancer diagnosis, because I'm not dying, right? Like there are people with cancer who are terminal and they have a couple of months to live. So, but I'm comparing myself to someone who is healthy, so then it's like, oh, poor me, versus that person who has terminal cancer, where it's like, oh wow, let me take advantage of every second that I have because I do have that opportunity. I am big on celebrating birthdays, and I know a lot of people are like, oh, I don't want to grow old. Growing old is a privilege denied to many. Absolutely, it is absolutely so why not celebrate that you get to turn a year older. There are people who didn't make it.

Genevieve 6:51

That's it. My grandparents died young. See?

Zulma 6:56

So if you know you're celebrating your 50th birthday, oh my god, I'm 50. No, oh my god, I'm 50, right? That's the difference. Yeah, because a lot of people didn't make it to 50. So what a privilege.

Genevieve 7:11

Absolutely. Well, I found this interesting too, re getting to uh know you a little bit in your backstory. You know, you get people that get into their midlife and they think, oh, it's uh I'm too late. Life's too uh, I've gone too far, you know, in their 40s. It's too late to start something new. But what was interesting, and this is what I love about your story, is at 42, you went back to school. You didn't you start right start over? So what I'm curious at that age, what would have been maybe the loudest or loudest thoughts or maybe doubts in your head then? And then what was that like stepping into the classroom at that age? Uh, what were you noticing amongst your your classmates in that time?

Zulma 7:53

I was noticing I was a grandma in the classroom because this is my bachelor's, right? Like so you have kids right out of house that are 18 and 20, and here I come with my gray hairs, and they're looking at me like uh I was even older than some of my professors when I was going to school. So that was one of the things that I noticed. And I and um, but then when they got to know me, uh we be became like fast friends. And in I always say, like, these kids kept me young because social media was just starting, right? Like, and it's like, so what did I know about Instagram? And they're we're teaching me about that, and uh, and I'm kind of like grounding them with real life, right? Like, because I bring all this uh personal story, right? Uh, but that was before my cancer, right? Like, so I was 42, walking in uh a classroom with 18 and 20 year olds, and um they're looking, they are looking at me like she's lost. Like, what is she doing here? And I kind of like show them that through dedication and hard work that I belong there too. This is not just for you. And my personal experience with going uh to school later in life is that professors love me because they knew I was there because I really wanted to be there, not because grandpa is paying for my tuition, right? Like, I ask questions, I stay until the last minute in the class because I'm paying for this.

Genevieve 9:40

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Zulma 9:41

You know, like so um it was such a great experience. I was so excited.

Genevieve 9:48

Well, that's what I was gonna say is you know, when you're a lot older, your focus is somewhere else. When you're in your early 20s, I think it's they're still trying to figure life out. But you know, when once you've lived a little bit longer, there's still some things where you go, these are the plans I had, and these are so you're more focused on the on your goal, right? Your goal, right? So, in talking about that, you graduated at 46, and then you said it was two months that you received the diagnosis of your breast cancer. So, what were some of the future plans that you had to kind of pivot or or I guess what's the word I'm trying to say is is what what had to change your goals?

Zulma 10:24

Oh yeah, I was on track to do my master's. Okay, right. Like I I graduated in December and the master's program didn't start until August of the following year. So I was like, oh, I wanted to uh so because I did the bachelor in social work, the master program that I qualify for is only one year. So I was gonna do my master's and graduate at 47 and be uh fully licensed by 50, and then all that got to wait, but got delayed because it's like, oh, I had to take care of my health. So life is what happens when you have other plans.

Genevieve 11:06

Can you tell me how so you went through that process? You went back home to Argentina, I had read, right? So you went home to take care of your health and then come back. Um I'm interested to hear about what that journey was like for you in the middle of it. I know I had a uh my grandma had breast cancer and she died of uh lymphomic cancer years later, and then my sister actually experienced cervical cancer a couple years ago. So I know the difficulties, the health things, and and just all of that, all of that stuff that they went through. Um so I was just curious to know what that was like for you in the process. And so for that time frame that you took that time, you went back home to Argentina. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Zulma 11:52

Yeah, uh well, moving back to Argentina after living in the United States for so long was a cultural shock. Uh, because I have forgotten I was too American to be moving back to Argentina. Like that's what my nephew always says, and he's absolutely right. It's like you are too American to be living anywhere else. But so, first of all, it was a cultural shock. Uh, I wanted to be close to my family, and uh I had a lot of help. But the one of the things that I noticed was that I was getting so frustrated with the little little nuances of you know, like having to take a couple of buses to get to the hospital for my treatment, or because in in America I had a car, but in in Argentina I didn't. Like I needed to get up at four o'clock in the morning to get to the hospital by 5:30 to get a number so I can get seen maybe at 10 o'clock that morning. Like I remember one time that so they they told you, okay, come on um whatever on Monday, but it's not guaranteed you're gonna be seen. So you have to go there on Monday super early to get a number because it's a limited number, numbers that they give, and to uh be there, so you can get the number, but then you don't get seen until normal time, which might be 10 or 11. Uh, and I remember one time I was crying, my sister was there with me because I was so tired.

Genevieve 13:39

Yeah.

Zulma 13:40

And uh it was 3 p.m. and I still haven't seen the doctor. And I was there from like seven in the morning or six in the morning. So I was so exhausted, and and I was just overwhelmed with the with the um circumstances in the hospital. It was a hospital, it was a public hospital specialized in cancer, but they have no resources. They have like the there is no HIPAA, uh, or there was no HIPAA at that time. It's like you have a curtain, like kind of like in the ER. Yeah. Uh in America, that you have a curtain, but you can hear everything that is being said there. Because you don't have a you don't have a room. Like, yeah, and and that's how you know I hear other patients, the other patients hear me. And so it was hard in a sense of like in America, you your appointment is at 10, and maybe you wait 45 minutes for the doctor, but you don't have to be there at six o'clock or five o'clock in the morning. And this is with uh harsh weather conditions, where it's like uh Argentina, Buenos Aires has uh high humidity all year long. So in summer, you shower and then you come out and you are sweaty all over again. And in winter, no matter how much, how many clothes, how many layers you wear, you are gonna be freezing. I remember one time, and the hospital has no um, you know, uh AC or or heater. It's like they give you blockets. So I remember one time I went for treatment, they couldn't find my veins because it was so cold. So they had to warm up my hand so the vein can resurface, yeah, so they can stick the needle in me, right? Like, and it's like those are things, and I'm not saying that America's health system is perfect by any means. No, those are things that you don't see. Like once I I went back uh to America, I had like, you know, you have the room with a nice chair that reclines and lifts up your feet and whatever to get your treatment. Over there, it's like they bring you three blankets if they have them, right? Right, like may they might not have it. So you better be bringing your own blanket just in case. But and yet I received the best treatment available because when I went back to America, my oncologist said, Oh my god, like this is this is what I would have done if you were here. So that means that they are the doctors there are up to date with the research, but you have no resources.

Genevieve 16:28

And that was how long did your treatment go?

Zulma 16:32

So the intensive treatment was 18 uh rounds of it, wasn't the regular chemo, it was a different type of chemo. Uh-huh. And it was once every three weeks. So, in addition to taking the pill every day, and then I had to get a shot every month because the treatment they put me on was for post-menopausical women, but I was still having my period. So they have to induce menopause chemically so that I can get that particular treatment. Yeah, which I love because I didn't have PMS anymore. Like, you know what I mean? I have like less something that I want women have to trade for one thing. So I'll trade it. Um, and in in theory, that was gonna be for five years that those pills and that shot after the 18 applications of that kind of chemo. But um after five years, my doctor in America, I was back in Las Vegas at that time. Uh, my doctor said there is a new research that that um suggests you know, recommends another five years. I'm like, you can give it to me until the day I die. If if that means that I'm not gonna get a period again, right? Like as we were hoping that after the additional five years, my body will transition naturally into menopause, right? Because like I was of age, but my mom was already, she she already had died, so I couldn't ask her what what age she went into menopause. Yeah. So I was like, okay, let's do it. And then so I did it for another five years, uh, the monthly shot and the pills. But the bulk of the treatment was probably eight months, nine months, something like that, where like, you know, the uh you have to have the blood work and the mammograms, the ultrasounds. And yeah, and and I think that one of the hardest things uh when you are in treatment are the waiting times, right? Like when you have a mammogram or an MRI and then you have to wait for the result.

Genevieve 18:50

Yeah.

Zulma 18:50

Right. Or you have your blood work and it's like that that waiting game is uh although you you try to not think about it and and you want your anxiety under control and all that, it's like it's it's so hard because you don't know what that MRI is gonna say. And in 14 years in, uh, I still like when I have an MRI of my breasts or my mammogram is still, you know, that uh similar anxiety in just praying and waiting for the result, right?

Genevieve 19:28

And I I understand that being that my uh grandma had breast cancer, and that it is a history in my my mom's side of the family. Uh, you know, of course, once I turned 40, that was the recommended time to start having those mammogram checks. And I do remember um one of the second times I had a mammogram, they had to call me back. They had found a couple lumps. So that was nerve-wracking enough to go, well, you know, and I hate that they always go, oh, it's just breast dense breast tissue, all these things that, you know, they they some women have. But yeah, it was nerve-wracking to know, okay, well, what is that? And then um to find that, okay, we're gonna watch this. Let's see you back in six months instead of the full year. So I've been doing, I've been doing that to where now it's it's uh every six months that I go in and I have to do the uncomfortable checks, but they do both. They do the the MRI and they do the regular mammogram check to see. And I'm grateful that this last checkup that I had had, my doctor had told me, she goes, Well, that one lump that we were looking at, it has dissipated or disappeared, but we're checking another one now. So I'm going, you know, it just it like you said, we're not guaranteed tomorrow, but where there's things that we just have to check. And each time I have to go in. I'm grateful for that. But yeah, it is nerve-wracking because of the result.

Zulma 20:46

Absolutely. But I always say that it's better to know the enemy so you can develop a plan of attack, right? Like a lot of times we we look the other way, and that's something and I'm overgeneralizing, but that is something that men don't want to deal with. So they wait until the last minute to go to the doctor, and then there is a diagnosis that you cannot handle, where like if you would have taken care of the symptoms the first time they appear, you might have developed a plan of action. So I always say that knowledge is power. So when you go get these MRIs, it's like you are in power because you you are gonna know if there is an issue. And if there is an issue, you better find out now than in six months or in a year, right? So it's like so you can develop the the plan of attack. So it's like, but nobody takes away that anxiety, right? Like from the MRI until you get the results. Actually, uh, I had a lump, so I had the mammogram, then I have an ultrasound, then I have a biopsy, and the biopsy. It took about two weeks to come back. And I remember that I called the surgeon office and they had an appointment on February 14th. So I went on Valentine's Day to get my diagnosis. So it's like, all right, happy Valentine's Day to me. Like, you know. So, but it was better to know than to not know. And then, you know, of course, everything changed. And I and I'm saying it 14 years later, like at the time, looking at it, I went through everything that I mentioned before. But but it's like, it's better that I caught it when I caught it.

Genevieve 22:42

Right.

Zulma 22:42

Than if I would just ignore the lump and then let a couple of years went by, and then there is nothing that you can do.

Genevieve 22:51

Well, your life journey is incredible because it didn't end there.

Zulma 22:56

Thank you.

Genevieve 22:57

Then you uh turned in your 50th, in your 50th year, you went back and you were able to go. Yes.

Zulma 23:03

So I I went back. Um, so in the time that I was in Argentina, my mom unexpectedly passed away. Uh that was a year and a half after I moved. Um, she had a heart attack and she passed. And I think that me being there, it was part of the bigger plan that God had for me because I think that my mom transitioned peacefully because she saw me that I was doing well.

Genevieve 23:37

Yes, right?

Zulma 23:37

It's not like, oh, I no, I'm I'm fine, and then I hang up the phone and I'm dying. Like, no, she saw me that I was doing well. So at uh 49, I wanted to celebrate my 50th birthday in America. So I asked God for a sign and be careful what you asked for, because I asked for a sign and I got a banner, right? Uh, out of nowhere, I got an email from uh my university saying, like, hey, we have the advanced master program back. Do you want to register? Which was the original plan, right? Like, so it's like, yes. So I moved back to America and in May, and my birthday is in June. So I started school at 49, and then I celebrated my 50th birthday, and then I graduated at 50. I was uh a few weeks short of my 51st birthday when I graduated. Amazing. And that was another thing, right? Like, again, like I am 50, and these girls are 25. I remember one time there was uh two girls, one was 23 and one was 27. I was like, it takes a two of you to make up my age, you know, like and they were sitting together. Uh, it was so funny because I was like, but I'm still friends with some of my colleagues, uh, my classmates, yeah. In like they are half my age, but it it doesn't matter, right? I think that they again they kept me young and I kept them grounded with all my life experience, right?

Genevieve 25:18

Life is good. So you became a therapist, yes, and you started your business as a therapist. So having all of those life experiences, you've been able to really pour into some of your clients uh with the experiences that you've had. Can you remember a moment with a client maybe where your own past has shown up for you and you've been able to uh say something to them that maybe you wouldn't have been able to before?

Zulma 25:44

Absolutely. So everything that I had experienced in my life came through through my client uh actually last year. I had a client in her 40s who wanted to have a mommy makeover. And I don't know if that is the real name, but you know what I'm talking about. I know about it. Exactly what that is. Um and uh her doctor said, I I wouldn't touch your breasts if you don't have a mammogram done, because she never had one done prior. And she had breast cancer. It came back that it was cancer. So she was like, because I'm very open about because although in school they tell us, like, oh, you don't suppose to talk about yourself. I think that for you for my clients to know that I'm not like I didn't live in a bubble and then all of a sudden I became a therapist. Right. I think that it's important for them that I've been through stuff myself. So she was like, I am so glad that you are my therapist because you've been through this, and I I think that you can guide me better through this than other another person who never experienced that. So that was very reassuring. Another client, she was being emotionally abused by her husband, a very successful woman. And because I been in a similar situation, I was able to tell her, like, you are being abused. And because when my therapist told me that, I was like, oh no, you're mistaken, he doesn't touch me. Because to me, abuse was I beat yourself up and I sent you to the hospital, right? That was abuse, yeah. But I was being emotionally abused and sexually abused and uh psychologically abused, and I I didn't know that. And I consider myself an educated, smart person, but I was in a cycle that I couldn't recognize. And when I told her that, and she was she started crying, and and I explained what what I meant, and it it was kind of a light bulb moment for that particular client. And I think that if I didn't experience that, I wouldn't have been able to recognize it. I'm not saying that in order to treat something, you had to experience it yourself, but what I'm saying is like having been through different stages in my life and different experiences, that it would make me connect better with my clients because I'm like, I cannot be like, like, I don't I don't know how to sugarcoat stuff. No, I am keeping it clean for your show because we spoke prior, but I'm the sweating therapist and I sweat a lot, but that is my way of keeping it real. Absolutely now um am I being real now, absolutely, because I am respectful of your show and your audience, but it's like and so I'm being careful with the words that I that I'm choosing, uh, and I'm being very proud of myself. But it's like I I pride myself in keeping it real, yeah. Because life is too short, nobody has tomorrow guarantees. So I cannot be like, oh you poor poor you like if I I see trauma in my clients as an opportunity to help. Absolutely. If I sit with you and I cry with you, we're not getting anywhere, right? So when you tell me a traumatic event that you experience, I'm like, okay, yeah, I can we can we can go to that together, you don't have to do it alone.

Genevieve 29:42

Right. So you are sitting down with them and you are being real with them versus going, well, I'm sorry, you know, tell me how that feels, and and and really just not helping them through that.

Zulma 29:51

It's like I I heard somebody who had been through breast cancer, it was an Instagram reel, and she said, Don't tell people to tell you when they need something, when they are going through something, like don't don't say, like, oh, if you need uh something, let me know.

Genevieve 30:09

Right.

Zulma 30:10

And I'm like, I'm not necessarily agree with that. I think that we need to let the people closer to us how to help us. So if we express the how and and the best way to do it, right? Like so when I got my diagnosis, I couldn't talk without crying. So I didn't want to talk, but I sent an email to all my family and friends and said, I don't I don't want to talk right now, but if you can send me an email, I really appreciate it. Right. And I got those emails, which I can still read them 14 years later, yeah. And I cry in my own time and I process in my own time. So if you want to be there for me, I'm giving you the roadmap for you to be there for me and you don't have to be guessing, right? Like we are so busy with our own lives, and it's like I think that when people said, just let me know what you need, it's a genuine offer. So you look around and and you tell what I want you to do my laundry, I want you to do my dishes, then perfect. Let me go and show me where your laundry is and I'll do it, right? Right? And we are both happy, right? Yeah, so I mean, I understand the perspective this girl was saying, because she's like, You are in so much chaos, you probably don't know what you need. I understand that, but when you do when you know what you need, there is nothing wrong with verbalizing it.

Genevieve 31:44

Exactly.

Zulma 31:44

Because especially if you're a giver, it's so hard to receive, right? So if you receive with the same love that you are giving, it's actually a gift for the person who is helping you, right? It is because when we are giving something, it feels so good to give, right? Like so, if we had to be if if I fight you about it, then I'm taking away from the the good feeling of you giving, right? Like if you bring me a coffee, oh no, no, I want to pay you for it. No, say thank you. I enjoy the coffee.

Genevieve 32:26

Absolutely, yeah.

Zulma 32:27

Because it takes away from the feeling good feeling of you doing something for me, right?

Genevieve 32:36

Well, I know why they why you became a therapist, right?

Zulma 32:40

But but it's like we when we are givers, it's so hard to receive. Yeah, we don't know how to.

Genevieve 32:46

Yeah, that's true. I I have that problem every now and again. It's like, let me just do it. I don't want to bother you. Well, I'm curious because now you have been a therapist for a couple of several years now. Where did the podcast come in? And for all of our listeners, you all will definitely have to check out Zalma's podcast, the the swearing therapist. She is keeping it very well.

Zulma 33:08

You just don't have the children in the car when you are listening to it. So when did that come about? The podcast, uh, so podcasting started with uh a family, my friends. Uh there was a family um lunch, and one of her family members, which I later realized it was her daughter-in-law, but at the time I'm like, who's that? Because like she has a big family, and I never remember anything. So she's like, she's my my daughter-in-law. It was October, and um she said, Oh, I'm I'm having I'm doing a podcast and and I don't know how to get guests. And I'm like, Oh, I want to be your guest. I'm like, I can talk about my breast cancer because October is uh breast cancer awareness month. Exactly, yeah. So I did that and I loved it, right? So then I uh was talking to another therapist and she has a podcast. So I said, Oh, I want to be a guest on your podcast. And that's when she told me about podmatch. She said, All my guests are through podmatch. I didn't know what podmatch was, so I did my research, and and then I started getting you know guests, um, being a guest in different podcasts. Yeah and then I had uh a podcast, and the uh host asked me after we were done recording, he said, Do you have your own podcast? And I said, No. He said, Why not? Because I don't even know where to begin. I said, but if I had one, I will call it keeping it real with Sulma, the Suarez interprets. Uh-huh. So he said, Oh, I help you. And I I was like, Oh, okay. And I thought to myself, I'm never gonna hear from him again. That afternoon, he sent me the logo, the setup, everything. And and I started recording, and I'm on season two, uh, episode uh 53, right? Like so I I cut the first season at uh the 50th episode, so I've been doing it for a year, and I love it. Some of the episodes about are about my experiences, and some of them are more educational about mental health. But for sure, when you are gonna get listening to one of my episodes is the real thing. I truly keep it real.

Genevieve 35:36

Yeah, and I appreciate that, I really do. So, yes, everybody, if you get the chance, you have to definitely listen to her podcast. There's a lot to resonate there, but uh, I love it. So I want to go ahead and and uh talk about the next milestone because you are now 60. So you have gotten to celebrate your 60th birthday in Hawaii, which I know you and I talked about it. I lived in Hawaii for three years, absolutely loved it. So you loved it so much, but Hawaii we both know is so expensive. But you ended up the uh loving it so much that you wanted to move to a beach area, so you chose Panama. So now you are in lovely Panama and you have uh the beach at your backyard pretty much. So what would you say now that you are 60, you've had all of these life experiences and challenges along the way, but you're still here. What has your 60th birthday symbolized for you internally?

Zulma 36:40

Yes, so I, you know, I live in in Las Vegas too long. I think I I pay my dues living in the desert for so long with summers, and my birthday is in summer, it's in at the end of June. So it was so hot, and I wanted to do something special for my 60th birthday because as I mentioned before, I'm big on birthdays, and none of my friends could go with me to Hawaii because it was too expensive, but they have other things going on, whatever. And I went to Hawaii for four days, and I it was where I was so relaxed. Like I did dinner cruise uh the the night of my birthday, and and I did it alone. I didn't care, like I wanted to be in the water and celebrating myself, and I think that something clicked where I spend a lot of the time in the water, so I'm not much of like laying in the sun, sunbathing, like I want to be in the water, and and I was like, I need to find out a way to make this work because I really want to live by the ocean and get in the water as as many times as I can. I think that is um good for my soul, not only my body. And um, and I pray a lot, and the answer was Panama, because I could not afford Hawaii or California, and I'm not for the um for the east coast, no, no cons with Florida, but I'm not into hurricanes. Uh so and I was like, well, I cannot afford it there. Like if I move to Hawaii, I have I have to have three jobs, which will take away from my time at the beach. So it's so expensive. I I pray a lot about it, and it the answer was Panama, and I moved in December. Uh so it is a process. I've been in Panama for two months and I'm still adjusting. But I think what clicked was that it it was time for me to honor my soul, right? Like I I did the um, I took care of my physical health, and I I've been in therapy for many, many, many years. So I'm taking care of my uh mental health and my emotional health. And what about my soul? Like I I was in in Las Vegas, I was a prisoner in my own home because in summer I didn't have a pool at my home. So in summer, I will not go anywhere with because with 114 degrees, 117 degrees, there is nowhere to be but in your own home under the AC. So uh I became a prisoner in my own home. And I'm like, no, I wanna I want to be in the water, I want to be in the ocean. And personally, I don't like pools, I find them gross. Uh but yeah, it's like you. Uh so it's not even like, oh, I moved to a home that has a pool, like even is my own pool, but it's still 115 degrees outside. Um, I wanted to live by the ocean, and and that's what I'm at now, where I can hear the ocean at night, even with my windows closed, because I need a screen for my window. There's a all kind of insects and things in the balcony. I'm like, and now that's not gonna walk in my bedroom when I'm sleeping. But um I can I I look out my my balcony and I see the immensity of the ocean. And every time that I had the opportunity, like yesterday, actually, I had a cancellation. Uh, my last client of the day uh cancel, and I was like, okay, so I finished and I did my notes and I put my bathing suit and I went to the water, right? Like it's like so I'm I'm leaving on vacation, like every day is Sunday, and uh and I'm loving it. I I absolutely love it. So I think that age is just a number, and I think that I I learned that from my dad. My dad uh passed away in 2020 uh due to the pandemic, he died of COVID. Yeah, but um my dad got remarried when he was 73. Oh, really? He had found uh a woman. Uh he had been separated, divorced from my mom for a long, long time, and he had found a woman, and and he was like, Okay, I want to get married. And my siblings, I'm the youngest of four. My siblings were like, why? You know, like that is ridiculous, but and I and I was thinking, like, how long is he going to live? 10 years. Let him let him marry then be happy for 10 years, right? My dad celebrated 23 years of marriage. He died at 97, 24, 24 years of marriage. He not he died at 97, and because of the pandemic, I think if the pandemic didn't happen, she will still be kicking because uh he and he will travel with his wife, who was not a spring chicken either. I think she was 68 when they got married, right? So it's like, why would you allow something? So he ended up having the longest marriage in the family. I was married and divorced, my siblings were married and divorced, right? He ended up celebrating the longest marriage in the family at 73. So I think that subconsciously, like I had my dad's example where it's like he will travel, he will go to Cuba to the beach, he loved the ocean too. Yeah, and he will go to Cuba in June because it's it's cold in Argentina, and he will come back like old tan, you know, and it's like, you know, or go to the Caribbean or whatever. He truly enjoyed life and didn't stop his age. He he didn't allow his age to stop him. So it's like, why not? I wanted it became so clear when I was in Hawaii that that's what I wanted to be, that that's what my soul needed, and I wanted to do it now that I can still go and enjoy the water. Right. I don't want to do it when I'm 85 and I can barely walk. Right. I don't know how I'm gonna be when I'm 85. I might wish I I'd be like my dad and still traveling all over the world. Yeah, but I don't know. So it's like now I can enjoy it. I can still work and I can enjoy it.

Genevieve 43:44

So why not have them both? And I love that too, because I think it is where people get older, they stop. They stop living, they stop enjoying, and you go, why why stop? You're still going. Enjoy that time, you know, 60, 70. If you are blessed to go 80. Why stop? You're not that old. Yes.

Zulma 44:03

Absolutely. So here I am at 60 in Panama, like looking out the window and seeing the immensity of the ocean.

Genevieve 44:12

Well, Zoma, this has been so good to chat with you. And I loved just hearing the journey. And you just you still have so much life left. It's amazing. I love it. I absolutely love it. But to name that hidden chapter, we're going uh so what after all of these things, uh, what finally would you say helped you understand what that season for you really was about and how has it changed the way that you relate to yourself?

Zulma 44:38

I think that he came to change my priorities and put myself first. So that's what that season did for me, whereas as I said, I was a people pleaser. In in when you are a people pleaser, you're at the bottom of the list. So cancer came to change all that. And if anything, it came to show me how bad I wanted to be a therapist because it didn't stop me, it only delayed me, right? So it's like, yeah, to understand that putting yourself first is not selfish, is necessary.

Genevieve 45:17

Absolutely.

Zulma 45:18

Because you cannot give from an empty vessel. So, and that is uh a message that is so important, especially for women who are mothers, right? Like I again, like I don't have children myself, but when you are a mom, it's like, oh no, no, my children come first, which I understand, but if you don't put yourself first and something happens to you, who's gonna take care of your children? So if anything, you take care of you for your children, right? Which is not why you should take care of you, you should take care of you for you. But if if that is what you need, it don't take care of you, then do it for your children. Because what happens is that we burn out ourselves to the ground, and then we end up in the hospital, and then the house becomes a chaos because you are not there, right? So it's like to in order to be there for your children, for your family, for others, you need to learn how to be there for yourself.

Genevieve 46:25

It's true, and you can't pour from an empty cup, like you said. You gotta love yourself first. That's that's some a message that I've been sharing with uh friends and for myself, is that you have to take care of yourself first and have enough on your own. You can't pour empty and dry.

Zulma 46:44

Absolutely. And and if that means that you ask for help or you take the help that is being offered to you, right? You don't have to be wonder woman, oh no, I got it. Yeah, you got it, but you don't have to do it alone. Simply because you can take a punch doesn't mean that you live in the rain. So when somebody is offering you help, which comes from a good place, it's okay to receive it.

Genevieve 47:10

There was a quote that you gave me that I wanted to read to you because I thought this would be a really great uh you already kind of talked about that message at the end, but I really liked this and wanted to ask your um your thoughts on what you said here. So this was the quote that I had written. So I said, You had uh I'd read where you said I survived cancer, abusive relationships, depression, and suicidal ideation, but I never considered myself a victim. No matter what people are going through in life, I hope my message will help the audience discover and honor their own internal hero. So you said you never considered yourself a victim. What does honoring your internal hero look like in an ordinary day now?

Zulma 47:55

To keep going, because I have a hundred percent, we all have a hundred percent record of being successful at of at overcoming challenges. How do I know? Because you are here, yeah. So whatever you've been through could not take you up. Why is this particular challenge different than all the other ones that you overcame? So to realize that yeah, you might be tired, right? And asking for a break. Like, God, why? I mean, there's like seven billion people. Why me again? Yeah, which is which is normal and then is humanly understandable, but it's like just remind yourself how far you came. Like when I'm going through stuff, because I do go through stuff because I'm human, I'm like, look at how far you came, and none of those challenges could take you out. Why is this particular one? You forgot who you are, so it's about remembering who you are on the inside, and that for me, giving up is not an option. It's always there, but I don't even consider it. So it's like, okay, so if not, I'm not gonna give up, then how can I better confront this? Yeah, and then go for it.

Genevieve 49:21

Such great advice, Zoma. Thank you for this. Well, I am so excited that we got to sit down and have this conversation, and I know that it'll resonate with a lot of the audience that get to hear you. And I will make sure to put your link to your podcast because I want I want everyone to experience the real Zoma. And um, just wanted to say thank you again for for being on the show.

Zulma 49:46

Uh, thank you for having me, and I like to close with this, which I I use it on my own podcast. But if you woke up today, that means that your mission in life is not complete. Keep putting one foot in front of the other, and you're gonna come on the other side of the challenge you're currently currently facing. Thank you so much for having me. It's been such an honor.

Genevieve 50:08

Thank you. Before we close, I want to pause for what I call a hidden chapter moment. This is the part of the story that might not have felt powerful while it was unfolding, but looking back became the turning point. Zoma's hidden chapter isn't just about surviving cancer or returning to school later in life. It's about refusing to let age, diagnosis, or fear determine what comes next. It's about choosing growth at 42, courage at 50, and adventure at 60. What stayed with me most is this. She still believes there is so much life left to live. It's about refusing to let those experiences define your identity. It's about choosing to see strength where others might only see damage. It's in the ordinary moments when we choose to believe we are still worthy, still capable, and still becoming. If this conversation stirred something in you, or if you saw parts of your own story in Zolmas, I want you to know you're not alone. For deeper reflections, behind-the-scenes thoughts, and more hidden chapter moments, you can visit my Substack. The link is in the show notes. And if you would love to hear more from Zolma, she has her own podcast called Keeping It Real with Zolma, the Swearing Therapist Podcast. I'll link that in the show notes as well. If this episode resonated, please follow, share it with someone who might need it, and make sure you come back next week as we continue uncovering the hidden chapters that shape who we are becoming. Hidden chapters exist to honor the stories we don't always see, especially the ones that prove life doesn't expire at a certain age. It expands.