4. Heart Over Hierarchy with Kim Hoppe

In this episode, Amber Bardon talks with Kim Hoppe, founder and CEO of KSH Consulting and Zen Midwest, to talk honestly about what it’s really like to step off the traditional corporate track. Kim’s gone from public accounting to fractional CEO work to building a business that mixes C-Suite strategy with mindfulness and yoga. Her path is all about clarity, courage, and choosing reinvention on her own terms.

Amber and Kim get into the highs and lows of being a female entrepreneur. The rush of landing that first client, the doubts that hit out of nowhere, and the reminder that women don’t need permission to go after what they want. We just need a sense of purpose. 

Learn more about KSH Consulting and Zen Midwest. 

Connect with Kim on LinkedIn. 

Discover more on our website. 
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Transcript

Welcome to the F-Word podcast, where we are bold, fearless, and unapologetically female. I'm your host, Amber Barden, and on today's episode we have Kim Hoppy. Kim is the founder, president, CEO of KSH Consulting. Welcome to the show, Kim. Thank you. It's nice to be here. So Kim, you are one of those people that I just felt this instant connection to when we started talking and we met when you used to work at Brio before, and then since then you have left the corporate, or I would say the more traditional workforce and started your own business.

And I remember when we started chatting about what you're doing in your company and what we do at Parasol Alliance I just felt such in alignment with you and I was like, this is someone that I need to have in my circle because we're so aligned on everything. So I'm so excited to have you here today to have you share more about your story to have a conversation with you.

And today's topic we're gonna focus on female founders. And I started parasol 10 years ago. You started your company in the last couple years, and just what are some of the challenges? Lessons learned and just talk all about that. Yeah. Amber, I, when you said, oh, will you be part of my circle, I kind of wanted to pinch myself.

And that's, and that's been a common theme as I kind of jumped out of having a traditional corporate role and into starting an organization. It's, it's, you have these moments where you're like, am I really doing this? Am I really doing this? Am I really having this conversation? Is somebody really trusting me with this?

And so that was absolutely a feeling I had when you and I first, first started comparing our stories. So. I started KSH consulting. I actually started two businesses about 20 months ago. One KSH consulting, and then another Zen Midwest and KSH consulting is, is the one that you and I talk about the most.

It's where we provide. Interim fractional, whatever you wanna call it when there's transition at the Suite C-Suite or needs to be transition at the C-Suite, we step in as C-E-O-C-F-O and sometimes CSO. So that's what we do at KSH Consulting. The other side of me is Zen Midwest, where we do, we blend executive leadership, the needs of executive leadership with yoga and mindfulness practices to really keep us all sane.



I didn't know about your second business. That's so amazing.

I'm gonna reach out to you after this 'cause I wanna learn more about that. In some ways I might be able to utilize. Some of those services, but I just wanna comment on what you said about that thrilling feeling when you first start your business and it's like those first couple of contracts you sign, the first couple of, you know, interactions that you have.

I remember when we won our first best and brightest workplace award, I was like literally screaming and jumping up and down 'cause I couldn't believe that this had happened. And you know, having. Than doing this now for 10 years. I sometimes forget about that. And when you bring it up, it just brings back that, that thrill to me that I can do this.

People see me as experts and just how great that feels. Yeah. Yeah. I, I wouldn't you know, what, what I feel when, when I've had that, those experiences, it's, it's not imposter syndrome. It's, it's not that for me. I just, just a couple weeks ago, I had my first ever strategy session with my team members, with the consultants that work with me.

And I'm planning the strategy session. It's a two day strategy session. I'm getting all the pieces of the puzzle and organizing, you know, them coming in for the day and, and getting the venue and all of that. Right. And just, just going through the steps. And when we all arrived that day and sat in that room, I, I just kind of looked around and was, there was an ego associated with it.

There was. Oh my goodness. We're really doing this right? Yeah, really, we're really a team and they're a team of amazing individuals and we're just, we're, we just keep doing what we want. What I, I think, I think what, you know, we're called to do, I mean, that kind of feels in the corporate world, we don't talk about that a lot, right?

Yeah. But. If you're just taking the right next step, you're making the right relationships, you're being authentic with those relationships. Things just kind of have a way of of rolling. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, you, you do good work and people are attracted to that and they want to be part of your team, whether they're on your working with you or they're a client, or, you know, helping you out, referring you in some way.

And I think that authenticity comes through with you, especially, and that's one of the reasons I felt like that we needed to be in a circle together. I wanted to, to talk about imposter syndrome.

That's such a great topic, right? Because sometimes. You know, when we're, we're going through things because, you know, as, as you grow your company and as you evolve, so, you know, Paris Alliance now has about a hundred employees. And so each phase of that evolution, you know, going from 10 employees to 20, to 30, 40, 50 up to a hundred, it's, it's, you have to rethink the business, have to reimagine the business, and through each of those phases.

It's interesting because as the founder and CEO people just expect me to know what to do, and I'm like, I, I haven't done this before. You know, we're figuring out as a team and that's important to have the right people at the table. And in the past couple years I've brought in some more seasoned C-level people, which has been amazing.

But you know, it's interesting how when you have that you are that founder. You were that CEO people. You know, you have that natural leadership ability that people expect you to figure it out, and you, you do figure it out. That's part of your skillset. But you, it makes you think that everybody's doing something for the first time.

Every CEO for first time CEO has never been a CEO before. Every first time, you know, singer who goes on stage to perform has never done that thing before. And so it, a lot of people look at you and they say, oh, you're so accomplished you've been doing this. But it's like everything I've been doing, a lot of, it was a first time for me.

Yeah, I had that aha moment chatting with a friend a couple weeks ago and, and we were talking about kind of the next steps of the business and she's bringing up something and I was like, oh, I can't do that. And she's like, why can't you, why isn't that a possibility? Mm-hmm. I don't know. I just hadn't thought about it yet.

Right. And, and she, she was sharing, she's like, Kim, think about every business. Every business out there started with one person, maybe two. And we were having a similar conversation like this at our team strategy meeting. And, and I said, you know, I just feel like somebody's gonna kind of like, surprise, this isn't real.

This, you know, this isn't real. And we were talking about how, you know, didn't Apple start in, in their garage? You know, it just, you know every company and you just take, you just put one foot in front of the other. Mm-hmm. And I've also learned very quickly what you started with.

Needs to change if your organization is going to change, provide new services, grow, whatever that may be. So when I started the organization, it was me. It was just me. I was, I was hoping that I would know somebody in the, in the, in the industry that would know need CEO or CFO services, fingers crossed.

Okay. And I've been in the industry for 27 years, so I was hoping that was the case. Then, and that was the case from relationships. But then as new clients, new relationships, or existing client or existing relationships created new opportunities, then I kind of had to retool and think, man, I really wanna serve these clients and I'm one person, so maybe it's gotta be larger than me.

And just me and what does that look like? And so that's when I started figuring out how to add people. You know, how I kind of started the foundation of the business and how I kind of piecemealed things together in the beginning. Now I, you know, I'm outsourcing different things, right? 'cause I don't have the capacity.

To do those things anymore. So in you, and it's, it's this evolutionary period in a business, right? Especially when you're a young business being okay with the change. Yeah. Yeah. You definitely have to embrace the change and you can't. Keep doing things the way you always have. You have to evolve or it's not sustainable because what you're doing as, you know, a million dollar company versus a 5 million versus a 10 million, it gets, it gets more complex and you don't wanna be a bottleneck especially, and you have to have people who can grow with you.

And I would say, you know, I get asked on other podcasts I go on, what's the biggest lesson I've learned? As a founder, CEO, having my company evolve and, and it's that, it's that as things evolve and change and grow you have to make sure that you have your people growing with you and that your processes and the things that are you're using, the tools you're running to using to run the business.

Those have to evolve and grow. And, and as A-C-E-O-I never wanna be a bottleneck. That's something that it's sometimes it's hard to get away from as the founder and there's, you have to decide what, what's the best value for your time to spend time on. And it's also interesting how people outside the organization have their opinions on what you should be spending your time.

But yeah, I think, I think that's a huge lesson for me that I learned, and I suspect that you'll learn as you continue to grow your business. But I wanna back up a little bit and tell me, I don't actually know this story. How did you make the decision to do this, and how did you make the decision to leave and to start on this journey?

And tell me the thoughts and feelings you had as you went through that. Oh, wow. So this is, you know, so I think this is gonna be public, right? So because you know, this, this, there, there might have been some cursing along the way or a a a lot of a a personal, you know, digestion when you're, when you're making you know, big changes like this.

But Amber, I don't know if you know, but I started my career in public accounting, so I was, you know, for 16 years I was in public accounting and serving our industry. So for 16 years. You know, all being a, a consultant, taking care of not-for-profit senior care. And so it is near and dear to my heart and that, that client service adding value in that way.

I, I'm never gonna be a a nurse. I'm never gonna be, you know, on the front lines. It's just not in me. I have a lot of financial and strategy that I can experience, that I can help organization. That was, that's how I felt like I was contributing to these organizations. And it was, it's very near and dear to my heart.

Our, our industry and the not-for-profits. And so after that experience, then I. I, I went a couple different directions and then landed in grand Rapids working for one of my clients that had been my client when I was in public accounting, and it's a large regional system. I was their CFO for seven or eight years.

A great experience, great people that ended up being brio. The, what everybody knows now is brio. It was a great experience and. You know, there was a time about an a year or two before I decided to leave that there was just something starting to nag at me, starting to pull at me. I had been in the industry for so long and I, I was getting this feeling like I was getting pulled kind of back to public accounting, and I knew I didn't wanna go back to public accounting.

What I was, what the poll was, was serving multiple clients in. Kind of that broader kind of financial strategy. That's, that's where I, that's the lane I wanted to be in, is that financial strategy piece. And so, and then there was this, also this pull on a personal side, my kids were, one of the reasons I love public accounting was, was, was my family, right?

The kids were getting old enough and they needed me home more. And, and so like a year before I left or announced that I was leaving for Brio, I'm, you know, the kids were nearing the end of their high school, getting ready to go to college, and I felt like, you know, when they're ready to launch and launch means going to college.

I just need, I need more flexibility. I need to, I need to do something that I'm, my, my, that I'm con in control of my own destiny. Right. And so pairing those two things up, my pull for the industry and the kind of the financial strategy things. And so it's, it's unusual. I, I hired my successor. She, she's great.

I about a year ahead of me leaving and there was, there was something in the back of my mind that kind of knew I was doing that. But in a sense I hadn't committed to truly leaving. And then fast forward, and it was on the same day, it was kind of this pivotal moment in, we had these in life, right? That it just happens on the day that we moved my oldest into college.

It was just this kind of, this opening for me that. Believe in the universe, the world, whatever. It's like, I need to do this. I need to start my own business. I need to, I'm ready. Right. I just had this feeling, this sense that that I was willing to take the risk and it was a big risk. It was a huge RI risk going from a CFO with a W2, a nice consistent W2 to going out on my own.

And

I would say there were people that were close to me. There were people in the industry, right, that were scratching their heads right. Kim, why? You've got a great job for the great organization. Why? Why leave? And, and those were some challenging conversations and I really had to surround myself with those people that said, Kim, you got it.

You got it. Trust. Have faith. Right? Keep, you know, make your connections. And that by, at that point in time, I mean, I had been in the industry for so long, I had lots of great relationships.



My personal opinion is that you want to think that as humans, we make logical decisions based on data and information.

But my experience is that people make decisions based on emotions and how they feel about somebody. I, I mean, even, you know, our experience in getting clients, a lot of times it's how they feel about you or you know, how they feel about the people they're currently working with. And that applies to your network.

And I feel like who you know and who knows you. Is the number one indicator of success when you're starting your own company. And, and maybe that's just my experience working in senior living because it is an industry where everybody knows each other as you know. But taking the time to build those relationships over time and to give your time to people and then they will give it back to you, I think is so critical to this type of journey.

Yeah, I mean, I, I can't say it enough. I believe that relationships is how you get business done. Mm-hmm. That's how I get business done. Yeah, absolutely. And it's, and it's, and it's the authentic relationships. It's the, and you know, there, there are days where you don't feel like showing up and being authentic.

Right. You need to, you need to take. Time for yourself and, and do self care and all of that. And you cannot have what I would call check the box relationships and build a business. I feel like when you are authentic, you can sense it in other people. Mm-hmm. Like you and I definitely sensed it. And I also think it comes from leading by example and by doing the work.

So I was on call at Paris Alliance. I was taking calls from nurses at three in the morning for, for years. Finally went off call after we'd been in business, you know, four or five years. But, you know, I had people on the help desk really respect that and say, wow, our CEO is taking help desk calls during the great resignation.

And we had a lot of people leave all at once as a lot of companies experienced. I was taking phone calls and helping people with their printers and jumping in and I think, I think showing up is so important. Especially today where it's so easy to have inauthentic connections and like checkbox, is that what you call it, a checkbox relationship or a surface relationship, but when you actually show up and you do the work, I think that authenticity comes through and also just by the experiences that other people can say that they've had with you.

Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely. It, it's, it's funny saying this, that well, I've been told pretty much all my life, you are not a typical accountant. Right? You're not the, you're not the typical CPA, and it's, and it's because I'm more of a people person, right? I, I like engaging with people and I like connecting with them.

I like knowing their story, knowing their story, and knowing how I can support them.

I don't, I don't know what's better. Right? Like, yeah. I, I want to know people and I want to be able to connect with them. Right. Amber, I, I really think the way I originally thought about answering your question is.

Kinda the way you answered it, right. Doing the hard work showing up. Right. And I think there's, there's a piece of that, and then there's a piece of being vulnerable in your own person. Right? It's life. We're all living the human experience and.

Y you know, I think we've gotta be careful with blending too much personal and too much business, right? Mm-hmm. So, you know, we don't wanna be talking about personal stuff all day long in business. And there is an element of. Leaders opening up and being vulnerable and sharing, sharing aspects of their life and their, their personality.

Right. It to, to allow others to also be vulnerable and feel like they can really, 'cause that's how you develop trust. Mm-hmm. That is how you, you, you develop the trust that regardless, a lot of times we step in as CFOs Right. In our, in our role and. Or CEOs, you need to be that that person that that CEO or that board member can call if they're, if they're challenged with a relationship issue, if they're challenged, right?

You wanna be that, that soft space. Isn't that funny to say like, I'm the CFO and I wanna be that soft space. Well, I think, I mean, going back to your comment about not being a typical CFO, like I think most people would say when you think about, someone said the word CEO, you wouldn't think about me in the way.

No. I look, and I think that's such a huge benefit. And for me, I feel like I'm a disruptor. I'm not your typical CEOI don't think about the things, things the way that other CEOs do. And I also just wanna tie it back to the theme of this podcast that I think that is something that you see with women more often because we are trained to have that empathy and to put

so much emphasis on, on feelings and emotions and making everyone feel, you know, safe, I would say. And that you, we sort of intuitively know to do that you have to be vulnerable. Yeah. And I, I have found that wanting to make people feel good, while that's a strength, every strength. Is a negative. Right.

And it has a flip side. Right. I was too. So I think because you have to, you have to define what those limits are because again, you go like, when, when the company started again for the first four or five years, I was going to every single client site myself four times a year. And you know, I was, I was doing so many things and.

That was really great for those clients and I'm, I'm glad I did that, but for myself personally, that's not sustainable to do that, and that's not what the company should have either. It's not sustainable to grow the business. And it's not sustainable for me personally. So it is also, this other side of it is like, at what point, you know, do you have a limit or at what point, you know, how much of yourself are you, are you giving?

And what value is that bringing back both to you personally and the business? And where should you be putting your time? And that's something you have to figure out. And I think, I think it's different for everybody. I think everybody has to play to their skillset and what areas give the most value to the company based on what you can do and help the business with.

Yeah, absolutely. And I, I think there's a balance of being vulnerable, being relationship driven, right? Really wanting to connect with people. Giving it your, all right, especially when you're starting a business and it's new. I mean, you're, you're all in, you're. You're gonna be given everything you've got.

And then there's, then there's a, then there's a point, right? That you've gotta start putting in structures and putting in processes and putting in boundaries. And, and when I first started saying kind of, you know, the, the vulnerable, kind of the more softer things, right? That doesn't mean that doesn't take away anything about doing the hard things, right?

Mm-hmm. You still have to show up and do the hard things and say the hard things, right? And that, whether that is showing up in a boardroom for, for our clients, right? Challenging. The current thought process, you know, having them think differently about their strategy going forward, alerting them to, you know, what's ahead of them when somebody hasn't, you know, previously brought that up.

And I think we can do those really hard things in a way that is authentic to our person. Because we've built trust, we've built an authentic trust. And then that goes, so we're talking about the boardroom for the client, but then we think about, I always have to kind of play in my mind, am I working in the business or am I working on my business?

Right. And I think most people that start their own organizations. Just stay working in the business. They stay working on the clients, and that's where a lot of organizations stall out because that founder needs to also be working. On the business. And that's where a lot of the, you know, the hard discussions have to take place.

Right. You know, a, a, a change in the strategy of the business or putting some more boundaries in place, right. Yeah. And I think doing the hard things is what builds that trust and vulnerability, because what's the alternative? Not making decisions, letting things go until they become a bigger and bigger problem.

Right. And I think that, I think that as women that have reached this point in our careers and generally, you know, have, have whe whether you're a CEO or a founder or whatever, you've been successful in your career up to this point. You have. Overcome a system of oppression, the patriarchy, which is pitted against you.

And you've learned to not only be successful in that, you've learned to thrive in that and you have to do it differently than Amanda does. You have to think about things that other people may not ever even think about. And I think that leads to the ability to do those hard decisions, but also to have that vulnerability as part of that.

Yeah. Yeah. You do have to find, find your way that you can show up and you can be heard in, in what you just described. Yeah. Right. And, you know, mentoring younger women coming up, i, I think about some of the thoughts that I share with them, and I al one I, I always like to share is get on the edge of your seat, right?

If you're in a boardroom or if you're in a really important conversation, right? Don't sit back in your seat. Shift, shift your booty right up on the edge of that seat and get your, get your shoulders up, get your chin up, right? And, and hold your own. And keep it, it not, not to have it again, not to have it be fake.

Right? And the first time you do it, it will be a little bit uncomfortable, right? But as you start doing it more and more, as you shift yourself up, right, it, it starts to bring on confidence. Right. It allows you is it's not gonna go away for a long time, Amber. It's just, I think that, you know, we've gotta come with the terms right?

That, or come to the terms with that. We're still gonna be in that environment where we are the minority. Not in all cases, not in, I know there's lots of businesses out there that have made headway. I would say most of the boardrooms that I'm in still, there's, there's still out, out of balance. And then the other thing that I like to share with women or, and men too, kind of starting their careers is.

One, like we talked about, you have to build those relationships. You have to build that trust, and you really, you need to do that before you're gonna, you know, really say the hard things. You've gotta know that you've got that trusted relationship in the room, right? That they, they know who you are and you know who they are after you have that trusted relationship.

You have to walk through the door. And what I mean by that, you can, you know, picture a boardroom, right? That there's gotta be a serious conversation that you've gotta deliver. All you have to do is walk through that door and you're in it and there's no turning back. Right? And it kind. And so I try to kind of get that picture in people's heads to get rid of this like.

Oh, I'm gonna have to do that next week. Or, oh, this is such a big deal. Oh, you know, there's this, this fear and this anxiety and this built up. And you know, sometimes they don't ever do it right. And I'm like, all you have to do is put one foot in front of the other and walk through the door and you're in it.

You're telling the story, you're delivering the message. And I remember there was a time in my career where I had to do that. Right. It was probably. One of the largest times that I had to deliver a message like that. And, and now I, I, I, I grew so much from that experience, but I know walking into that I felt, I, I was just reminding myself, it doesn't matter what happens today here.

Because I've got a family at home that loves me no matter what. Right? So that's what I needed at that point in time to kind of get my gears moving and to, to help me walk through that door. Now, I don't need to remember that all, you know, now I can pretty much walk through doors, but I think that's really, really important to you know, young leaders and, and people wanting to.

To, to move into leadership roles, to, to not hold back and to, to, to keep moving forward. And I think a part of that, something that I had to learn is to how to tell your own story. Because I think especially as women, we feel like maybe we're bragging or being egotistical by, by telling our story and by selling ourselves and you're not.

Right. And, and if you tell your story and you learn how to tell it. Ultimately that leads to that relationship. Generally everybody will benefit because you were able to effectively communicate and tell that story. And I think there can be, at least for me, like this, like, oh, I don't wanna be bragging about myself or talking about myself, but learning how to do that effectively and in a way that can communicate your strengths and that confidence is, is a big part of the journey.

Yeah. And I would say, I, I, I, I ask for feedback right there. There's still those, those thoughts don't go away, right? Oh, did I overstep my bounds? Was it too braggy? Was it too much? Was it, you know, and hopefully I have trusted relationships in those, in that room that I can go back to and say, what do you think about that delivery?

Was that okay? And I think it's really important, even though you're, you're the owner of Parasol for 10 years, right? And, and you have a hundred people reporting into you, I still think that we can have those kinds of conversations that say, yeah, all the time. I, I, I don't believe I'm perfect every day. I don't believe I've got everything nailed every day, and I do need to hear.

Kim, that was good. And here's what I would do a little bit differently, or, you know, we deserve to have those those type of relationships that you can get that trusted feedback. I like to, when I do my Zen Midwest stuff and we talk about executive leadership and mindfulness, I always say, or I like to say, does anybody else have.

Those, those voices in your head, right? We all have our voices in our head. We all have our experiences and to ignore them and not to be authentic and true to that, and, and ask for the confirmation that you're looking for. You don't, you don't, maybe you don't want confirmation from everybody, especially as a CEO.

Right? You don't, you don't need everybody's opinions.

I know you have dropped a lot of useful piece of advices during this conversation, but is there anything we haven't mentioned yet that you would want?

Women who are thinking about becoming founders, starting their own business at at any stage of life to know,

oh, okay.

Yeah. Spend time with your network. Spend time with your network before you make the change. Right. Know, know that there's people out there that have got your back. Right? And if you don't have those really strong relationships yet, maybe I might hold off right? And, and take some time to develop those relationships.

I would also say

do it the way you wanna do it. I think for so long we've, you know, ex, especially in my experience, I. Public accounting, CFO, right? Like just this is, this is the should, we should do it this way. We should be working five days a week, six days a week, right? We should do it. I think those days of shoulds are, need to be gone and you can, you can provide really amazing client service and.

Add value without all of the shoulds, right? So take some risk. Know your networks. Be willing to step  out of the tradition.

For me, I wanted to, um, serve multiple clients and bring the lessons and things I've learned as an IT director to many different communities that didn't have access to those resources. But it was also really important for me to create a culture, uh, where I would wanna work. As a mom, as a woman, as just a person in humanity, what kind of place do I wanna work and that I wanna build that.

Yeah. And that, that's, that's so true. I, I didn't know I, I was doing that in the beginning. Honestly, Amber, and I've learned through, you know, working in public accounting and, you know, I've had such amazing experiences and I had some. I, I am careful, I don't wanna get emotional on this, but I've had some really amazing mentors and leaders that that's what I wanna replicate.

That is, that is I, you know, I wanna have a company, have an organization that is taking care of clients, taking care of organizations, creating sustainability. In our not-for-profits in this industry. In that way, right in the way that kind of, I was raised in the industry and that's just so, I mean, it's it's heart.

It is absolutely heart, and that's what I wanna be able to give my clients. Is, is is that feeling. Well, Ken, this has been amazing. Thank you so much. I'm so glad you're in my circle.