Poetically Correct EP. 8 - Communication

In this raw and unfiltered episode of Poetically Correct, Marcus and Isaiah dive deep into the complex landscape of Black communication, leadership, and media representation. They explore critical issues facing the Black community, from the challenges of academic gatekeeping to the problematic nature of sensationalized media. The conversation tackles tough questions about generational divides, the pursuit of authentic leadership, and the need for more meaningful dialogue. With candid insights on everything from the Jubilee debates to the role of social media in political discourse, this episode offers a provocative look at the current state of Black intellectual and social dynamics.

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Transcript

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We can't afford to do this. I think that's that's the thing of we can't afford to do this. And it's always this conversation was like, well, if they can, well, why can't we? Because we're not white. That's why, if you want to go be white, sorry buddy, you can't. So that'd be the problem. We can't do that. The problem is a lot of people actually do want to be closer in proximity to whiteness? And like I was, I was, uh, somebody has sent me a book recommendation. The book is literally called, um, why? Why should white guys have all the fun? I was like, I never read. I'm never, ever going to read that because, and the cover is like some, some older black dude, like a cigar and like a suit on, and it's like it paints this image of us as, like we are always chasing whiteness. We always need to be being we always need to be getting closer to whiteness or, you know, yeah, I can't do that about the thing that you're passionate about. Do you talk to the people in the community that things are bad? So until then, how are you going to change anything that's going on? I'm trying. I'm trying to keep it PC here because, you know, it's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a delicate topic. Hi, I'm Marcus Conley, and I'm glad I finally got this thing working. Hi, I'm Isaiah Holland, and I'm also glad that he finally got this working. I almost started watching the movie, and I almost fell asleep. What were you gonna go watch The Big Lebowski, wow, that is not what I was expecting. Do you ever watch that? No, I've never seen it. I like know about it, I've never seen it, nah. Just, have you seen that before? That's okay. You definitely gotta get back to this next episode with a review. Okay, I might need to watch now. I'm gonna watch it too. Okay, okay, yeah, no, I've been getting into my movie bag recently. You know what I'm saying? Like, I've been trying to build my attention span. And so, like, I used to not like movies at all, but how recent is this new movie thing? Uh, within the past, like, two to three months, probably, oh, wow. So like, you'd, like, never, like, that was you just, like, not my media move, yeah, now I was, like, I was not trying to watch, like, my dad would put on a movie and I'll be like, I'm not trying to sit here for two hours and pay attention and like that. But that's so funny, though. Yeah, no, it's weird, because my dad's a huge movie fan. Like I'm saying, you also have no problem sitting down paying attention for other like artistic music. You'll sit down listen to an album, but, yeah, but I think, I think it was like a album. I can get a good hour of an album and I'll be cool, yeah, yeah, two, two, pushing it. You know, it was pushing it, but I was, but then I got to a point where I was like, Man, that's kind of crazy. Like, I need to, I need to be able to sit down. So that means and not to do, because I know that I'm not about to do this to you. I just have to ask, have you seen Malcolm? X, yeah, that movie is, like, three and a half hours, yeah. But I was also like, when I watched Malcolm X, I was also on my like, wasn't a movie. I was like, because I had read the book, and I was like, it was, it was film it was Film Study, yeah, like, I was watching that for, like, a purpose, you know, saying I don't like to throw a movie on, you know, said the same way people throw shows on, yeah, I don't do that, you know, but, but now I'm trying to, try to, you know, die. We gonna tap into that Big Lebowski, having that Big Lebowski, and get back to y'all. We are here on the Lord Sunday, August 3, here about a whole bunch of, yeah, here to talk about a whole bunch of hoopla and a bunch of much to do about nothing right now I feel like is going on. I mean, you know, crazy things are always still happening, as we keep saying. But we are not here to lament on, you know, society's impending death, it seems, from robots, I've seen like 20 things about AI. I did see, uh, a dude from Korea who spoke no English, singing never would have made it by Marvin set, like, two nights ago at like, 4am That was great. That was one of the best things. Oh, no. He was killing like, he sounded like Marvin. I'm gonna send it to you. It's hilarious. I did see that that happened. Um, that's going crazy. It's a dude. I'm gonna just fill you in, because you don't be on the internet for all my internet people, it's a dude right now. Also, who is, um, building a remodeling he's been building it for like, 20 some years. Is a remodeling of New York City, like a whole five boroughs in his basement. He said he's been building for like, 20 years, and it's like a, like a replica scaled down. He got, like, the chunks of it he's been, he's been blowing up, right? He got, like, less, how much, like, he got, like, 70,000 followers. I'm like, he's old, or do random dude, so I tore the city and, like, no, no, he's literally, he's like, he, he just started posting this because it's almost done. Like, he, like, he has said he's been doing it for 20 years, so he's just been doing it in his basement. Um, I'm sure he's probably just been around the whole city, but I think he said he aggregated some of it from, like, maps and but it's like, all the scale, like, all the buildings are just scale, and it's the whole city is. Wild. So shout out to him. I'm sure that's going to be a crazy news story once he's finished, and hopefully they do something cool with that. Shout out to all the people with stuff like that going on out there in the world, because it's always, you know, and in the times of the digital and the AI, there's always these craftsmen and these crafts women who, you know, do stuff with bees and all kinds of stuff, trapping, trapping out. They basement, too, by the way, that Etsy money. I was at the club yesterday, I seen, and I seen, uh, somebody put their phone down, and their case was just an AI, like, bit emoji of themselves. And I was like, that's like, so not create like, you didn't even try to, like, get something that was, like, actually representative of you. Said that their case was their phone case. Like, a phone case was, like, an image. It was an AI image of themselves, of themselves, or, like, like, oh, like, a bit more. Oh, yeah. It's getting ridiculous. It's getting beyond, beyond ridiculous, speaking of virality and the online, the internet something else I put I was actually shocked. You hadn't heard about this. I was genuinely the media Hassan, the Jubilee. Oh yeah. I was genuine. I thought after I sent it to you, you were gonna be like, Yeah, I already seen that, whatever. But I was surprised when you were like, Oh, what is this? So you only got 15 minutes and minutes into it. I watched the whole thing. I watched it one and a half times. I watched half of it the first time that I rewatched it. And I mean, your your takeaways from the first 15 minutes were basically like, Yo, what? Why? Why the fuck do we have it's like, but I want to speak for you. So go. Go ahead and for everybody saying this is Jubilee video. Many Hassan verse 20 far right conservatives. And many Hassan is a journalist who has done a lot of dope work for a long time. Yeah, and I've seen a lot of the Jubilee videos are just like the 20 v1 thing is they obviously make their their money off that, and I've seen it before, and I always have thought that it's kind of a useless exercise, as far as, like having a public debate goes, and like something that's actually constructive versus something that's just, you know, put together for media sake, for, you know, virality sake, it, you know, the the we were just talking about, the other one was 20 feminists versus Candace Owens. I don't know. Like, who wants to see Candace Owens debate? Anyone about feminism? Like, I don't know it's, it's the you're having people, whether it's Candace Owens, whether it's you know, the audience, that the 20 people that are coming in and trying to disprove, you know, Mehdi Hassan or like, or disprove like, his ideas and his theories about the world and society and whatnot, you're putting a bunch of people, usually, in a room that they don't, they are trying not to agree with their opposition, or whatever they're they're doing everything they can to undermine the, you know, the other person's argument, the other argument, or, you know, their their beliefs and whatnot. And it's, it's usually not in a way that's like, constructive of, you know, let's learn about, you know, feminism or, far right? Yeah, it's not really ever that constructive. Is my is my issue is usually like, we're just getting here. And, you know, the first premise in that, that, or the many Hassan video, first like point that many Hassan was trying to make, was, Trump is pro criminal, pro crime, right? And then, like, one of the dudes sat like, like, so, so, so, the So, the main point is, Trump is pro crime, pro criminal, right? That's what we're debating. But a dude sits down and he's like, or something like that. It's like, the first question he asked, it's like, what are we here for? Like, you're not, you're you're clearly not trying to engage with the point that is is being made. You're just trying. You're trying to generalize many Hassan as like the general um progressive. You're trying to undermine the the entire progressive agenda, or, you know, or ideology, by by targeting many Hassan and trying to like they were, they were putting other like progressive claims on, onto media Hassan, like something about California, like decriminalizing, or like, doing away with like, their three strikes laws, yeah. So, you know, so, so the guy sits down and he's like, Oh, well, you know, what about you? You're, you're pro crime, because, you know, the progressives in California are there. And he's like, that's not, I don't we're not talking about them. We're not talking about California. That happens to where they'll put that, like some like, their generalized liberal ideology, and he'll straight up be like, I don't agree with that. It's like, and you can tell like these people didn't come here to discuss or any point, or they're not here to push any specific, any specific point. They're simply trying. They said they see me Hassan as as a symbol of or like as, as a representative of the progressives. And so they're not debating medica San and what he believes. They're debating progressives and what they think he believes, because he's a progressive, yeah, and it's like then and there again, we're sitting down in our first question is, are you Indian? Why do you and the second, I'm pretty sure, like, the second or third question is, why do you care what happens in the United States? He's like, Oh, are you a citizen? Oh, I don't know how you guys are your citizens? No, they were talking crazy. I mean, he said I watched a few follow up interviews of him, he didn't know. So I agree. I will agree with you. That's not the reason I want to talk about this, but I will agree with you on that, on that. From that standpoint, I do not think it's a actual debate for him. Um, now, um, but the problem is people think it is, though, people, people like this is people's modern day, like debates like people's modern day idea of, like, political discourse. Yeah, is a jubilee video, and that's the issue. That's the issue is, is, if you're watching it just for pure entertainment, hey, that's cool, but, but a lot of people, I think, are looking at Jubilee into, like, 20 v1 things, and it's like, this is our modern day debate form in a way. Well, I I see what you're I see what you're saying, because it is, that's the problematic part. I think what you're saying that is our modern debate form. It is, and it's not just Jubilee, it's ESPN, it's, you know, I mean, you know, obviously 20 v1 where they got the idea of 20 v1 for it, now that they turn that into a Netflix show, right? I mean, that's debating, you know, dating and looks and whatnot, when you see these podcasts, these debate forums, is typically, hey, let's pick a topic and dog pile on one person and position one person to be. Yeah, hey, you're on this side, and everybody verse them and defend yourself with your back against this wall. It's like this. And there's, there's valor, there's valor in one person, like defeating 20, yeah, other people, even though those 20 people aren't like, experts on anything, they're not, they're like, just regular people, which is fine, but it's like, keep going. My bad. No, I so I agree with you, from that standpoint, and a big criticism, people have come, I mean, people, have come, I mean, people, there's been, like, a petition to get them demonetized and all that shit. And we can get into that. But like, in terms of, in terms of that, I am in 100% full agreement that they need to do a much better job defining what a debate is. And I'm sure, because it's called surrounded, so I'm sure, I don't even know if they put debate in there, but I think they say this person is going to debate medicine, whatever they say or not, it is a debate. I mean, they come up and do one. So I think that's also where they probably try to get around it too, because the people do come up, they run up to the which is really weird, they run up to the middle, and then they have a one on one debate while the rest of the people just on look, it's, it is a strange, yeah, it's very strange. First, when I look back and like, think of like James Baldwin, they that one at Yale, the famous one where he was getting into, oh shit. Oh shit. Okay, okay, we back. It still says on there for me. So, no, we all good over here. No, it reminds me of that would be a smooth edit. It reminds me of the James Baldwin. You know, if you go back and look at like a few of James Baldwin's debates, it'll be him versus somebody that would kind of be panel setting, and there will be a large audience, but it is one assume that, like, if not neutral, people are just coming to witness the verbal sport that is debate that is talking about about these things, and I feel like they're trying to recreate that, obviously, with a much more wider scale. So maybe that's the problem. Yeah. Maybe you do it. What is the problem? Maybe the problem is the in trying to make this debate as accessible as possible to as many people as possible, because that's Julia is a media company of mass media. Um, maybe that's like the inherent issue, because they are trying to, like, they're not trying Mehdi Hasan versus the Mehdi Hasan of conservatives might not be that interesting to the common person. You and I would much prefer to actually hear some actual talking points, but that's just and I think this comes back to the big issue of all of this, and the thing of people trying to monetize them, and where I'll shoot Jubilee some bail, but it is this, at the end of the day, is entertainment. And the interesting thing you said is people can't discern that, is that, yeah, how? I don't know how much of Jubilees fault that is, because, once again, if you go on ESPN, if you go on Joe Budden network, shit. CNN, I mean, everybody's doing this form of sensationalized debate that are just arguments and personal shots and and fat and fallacies and straw man, you know? I mean, it's, there's there's no and it really comes back to medica kept saying this good spirit, people do not debate in good spirit. I mean, it's all bad faith. Um, debating. So I don't know. I mean, I get what you you probably just don't consume much of that. Anyway, I'd stop watching, like, gills arena and stuff like that, because it was at point in time I was like, Oh, y'all actually talk about the game now. Y'all just turn it into everybody else. Um, so you probably don't consume soon much of it. The one thing I will say, even though I agree that baseline, what they're doing with that is bad, I do think this episode specifically because I haven't watched the other ones. I'm damn sure not gonna go watch the Candace Owens one I haven't watched the other ones. This episode is especially though I felt important, because this is the first time not me, because I'd be on the internet. But a lot of people are seeing faces to the people saying these things. Saying, I mean, you only made it 15 minutes an hour and like, 40 minutes, people say some crazy shit on there. You had the dude who said he's a fascist just outright, yeah, I'm a fascist. Didn't want to condemn the Nazis. You had dudes telling he need to medy, need to get the hell out of the country talking, you know, like dude was on there blaming Palestinian children for being, you know, sniped like it was just wild. Shit was being said openly and like, and they were clapping, and people were clapping for it. I feel like this is the first time people were able to see that type of brashness in and lack of empathy, like at work. And I think that is necessary, because I feel as if, because the big thing, like the one dude who was the fastest guy, he just got fired from from his job, by the way, that's the other reason I felt like this was next, yeah, so that was my other thing. People were like, Jubilee, like, is putting these people up and propping them up? He got fired, um, but he was like, a far right guy on Twitter. Like, some of these guys already had followings too. That was the thing about it. So some of them were already kind of in these spaces as somewhat public, you know, thought leaders on this type of stuff. And the guy who got fired, the fastest guy himself, was, I said to say, like, it's not like these people are not they're siloed, but they're not quiet. They're just in. They're on true social they're on crevices of the internet that that like we were talking about last time, if you don't interact with those type of people, you just don't know, um, and I'm not saying go out of your way to go interact with these type of people, because, you know, as many experience. And he said that too. He was like, I thought we were just he was like, when jubilees showed me, it was just 20 conservatives. These people were past far right? So I think on that side, they also swindled him a tad bit, it sounded like with what he was walking into. But yeah, I don't, I'm not saying people should go 20 v1 this, but at the same time, I felt like it was important for people to really see what we're dealing with. Because, as you just said, we can't debate. And a big thing right now that everybody's kind of trying to figure out, especially liberal people, is like, Okay, how do if we are going to listen to you, Marcus, how are we supposed to engage with these type of people? Right? Because last time I was like, engage with people like this. How the hell do you do that? Um, I don't I mean, and I think it's important, it was important for people to see, like, the levels these people take it to. So when this starts happening on the world stage, when the dude, the project, I just watched, Mark Lamont Hill talk to the project 2025 dude, he wasn't as blatantly respected for his face, but it was the same thing, reiterating same talking point. It's not answering questions. Donald Trump, same thing, right? When you do have the opportunity to get it across, these people, if you don't know how to deal with them, because you don't know how, like, you're not ready for that type of stuff. And especially, you know, people felt very personally attacked by some of the things these people were saying. And that's because they were saying it to many. Imagine if they were saying it to you. I do think there's power in being able to see and prepare for this type of engagement. Because, you know, as the time goes on and people want to start picking up the pieces and actually fighting the good fight, because we just getting into year one of this, we got three more years, and we're gonna have to start, I mean, year two is where we, you know, start trying to restructure some things. I think, I think that's what made it important, being able to see like No. People really do live like this. They believe this and believe it so much to openly show their face on Jubilee with 10 million views and say these things. I mean that that is insane. That's crazy. That was the only thing. And I did think that was more important for this than that bullshit ass, what they call a debate, because of what it was able to do. And many just up there slam dunking on them too. I mean, media, they making people look crazy. That dude is a wizard. Um, so shout out to him. That was the only. That was the only, only, only silver lining I saw from and the dude getting fired, I was like, you know, he was, he wouldn't be. He wouldn't got fired, because it's not like he was saying anything he hadn't said before. He's been saying this stuff. Um, being on that now it happens, and now there's some responsibility attached to it. Now he raised like, $50,000 or something from, you know, the whoever you know follows him and whatnot, but the point still stands. Um, there was something to come out from this. I mean, people, people spoke up enough, and this was seen him calling himself openly a fascist, and being okay with that was seemingly enough for his employer to be like, Yo, that's not okay. Um, which is so funny, because he was like, anti free speech. He was like, we had a fascist leader. And this dude was wild. His name was Connor on the thing. He was like, we get a fascist leader, and then we have no more free speech, and we're under one rule, and then he do gets fired from his job. He was like, I just, I thought we could say whatever we want, right? You know? So it just shows the mental hula hoops these guys take. And I think that that was important as well to show you, put someone up there who is factually based in everything he's saying, and then you have these people who are just coming up with complete hogwash delusion on how even basic systems in the world work, even systems such as racism, how they how they work. So I don't know, I may be a little bit more fascinated with it than I am in full belief, like I'm not going to fight the good fight for Jubilee, if people, if the people, decide, like, we don't with Jubilee, because of this fine I was fascinated with the fact that they were able to get all these people together and have and have these people say these things in front of the public with no care. I think, I think there's power in that. Yeah, now, I think it's definitely interesting seeing white people in that type of space where they're like, really, not only are they the dominant, you know, group in the in the in the space, but, but that that far, far right leaning ideology is the main ideology in the group that that you know, that's having a discussion and so seeing them so openly, just confident saying those things even for the first 15 minutes that so I was just like, can't, I just can't do I can't, I just couldn't watch it. Like, I honestly getting to 15 was a push. I'm like, I got to 10, and I was like, if the next five minutes don't, don't get any better, then I can't do it. And it definitely didn't. So, but you know, I think, I think it's, it's difficult because, again, people can't separate the fact, like the idea that this is entertainment, from the idea this is, like an actual form of real political debate. And this is, this is like when people think of politics, this is what informs their opinions, or like, this is what shapes their ideas, of like, how our political landscape is. And I think it is important because to show that there are people that think this way, that are super far right, that are out outwardly and openly fascist, absolutely, but I think it serves, again, another, another way to drive a wedge in, in between, you know, the progressive and liberal, or the progressive and conservative. You know, branches. It serves. Is more inflammatory stuff to be like, well, all conservatives are like this, or all progressives are like this, and, yeah, it's just difficult, because I just don't, I hate to see stuff like that go viral and then, like, we're not, like, there's not a video of Mark Lamont Hill going, like, actually critically, having, like, an actual critical discussion about about something important. So, yeah, juxtaposed I was, I then went watch him, and, like I said, I just started watching Pablo Torre, who's doing, like, actual investigative journalism, and Pablo Tory getting like 50,000 views. Like 50, 40,000 views. I'm like, Damn, it's hard to, like, actually do stuff nowadays, but people don't want, I mean, people don't want actual news or actual debate, anything intellectual. You're just too intellectual. Isaiah. You're being thinking too hard, you thinking too much, using your brain too much. That's what we have going on right now. So it's like you might need Do do you strike a healthy balance? Like, if I'm not a sensationalist, so I'm never gonna be for one of my key media philosophies, why this podcast looks and is what it is. Obviously, this is going to be the slow burn. This is not going to be what takes us to the top, having these types of discussions. But, you know, we think this is more necessary than us just sitting here screaming about, God knows what, if, when he's the next, you know, face of the NBA, or some shit like that, like, there's just more and even if that's the topic, there's more nuance to derive. I mean, even me like this, well, I'd be like, No, you know, Isaiah, you're wrong. Here's, here's why you're wrong. Yeah, I know you don't believe in what, the face of the NBA. I don't believe in that, which mean you don't believe in the face like, I don't believe in the idea that there's, like, gonna there has to be another face like LeBron or Kobe or MJ like, why not? Because I think the I think with social media, the game and sports in general, is just so widely consumed, and like all the star players, there's, like, so many different star players in the league that in in the game is so different. Now, where you get you get a guy like Jason Tatum, right? He's the best player on, you know, the best team in the league, right? But he his impact on the game is a lot of times. He might not score 30, he might, he might, you know, drive, get doubled and kick it to Derek white, Drew holiday, Sam Houser and all these dudes, and he's not going to be the face of lead, because he made a good basketball player, whereas Kobe might dribble into some shit and take a crazy, mad shot, and he might make that shit and it might look crazy, and everybody's like, Oh my God, look at Kobe, but you know, that's not where the game is. I don't think like, you get somebody like, like SGA, he's a little bit more of a score, but I wouldn't say he's the face of the NBA just because he's a scorer. And the Edwards, I don't know. There's just so many different guys that that are like, in the in the running for face of the NBA that I don't really see why any one of them has to be the face, like one of them has to be the next guy, because someone has to be, someone has to do it. I don't think. I don't know. I don't think so. I think, I think it's not the NFL. The NFL, you can sell teams. You can't really sell teams with NBA. You can Celtics, you can now. I really do think you can now, because the thunder, the Oh, the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers were the teams in the NBA finals this year. It wasn't. It wasn't. And what was the rhetoric around this finals the whole year? What? Man, this is the most boring. Nobody want to watch this shit? No, and it had nothing to do. It had zero to do with the quality of basketball being played on the court. No, absolutely, I'm in complete agreement with that. My My point is, though, that is, I think we're seeing the NBA go into a type of basketball that's like, allows for more parody. Like, you're you're not gonna get carried by a big three anymore. Like you have to be deep. You know, saying, though, the two things the commonality between the Indian pacers and the Oklahoma City Thunder was they're two very deep teams that play really fast and play great defense. So you can't be carried by LeBron D weighted Bosch, you know, you you can't just have a big three anymore, like you're gonna have to have a team, and that's gonna allow for somebody like the Indiana Pacers, who nobody wants to see in the finals, get to the finals and compete, you know? So I would say at that point, then I think the face of the league thing becomes a little difficult. Because if you don't have the face of the league going and winning championships, or at least going to the finals, then that's the problem. However, I do believe, for sake of the NBA, and do I think the NBA is going to be financially well off? Yes, I do. So take this with a grain of salt, but I for for their structure and how they market the league. I think absolutely they need some ever since. I mean, before Larry and bird, you had, Dr J, you always had someone who was the pushing. It was Dr J, then it was Larry and magic. Then it was Jordan, who took being the face of the league to a whole different I mean, he was the true first face of league. And then you had, you know, Braun come and then you and then you had, kind of the code, you had the AI, Kobe, D Wade kind of thing. So I guess that's kind of what's going on out, because you had that. It was like, for a quick six years, it was like, Who do we do this? We got we got AI, we got Kobe, we got Shaq, we got Kareem, who, who, who's next up, and then, and then Brian comes in. Um, so this could be maybe, like, a little moratorium period, but there's going to need to be somebody. I mean, once again, what do they What do we got? We gonna sell teams. We're gonna sell this. We're gonna sell the Oklahoma City Thunder internationally. Like, I mean, just think about it, like, because that's, that's the part they're thinking about, and that's why I say when I mean, they're trying to, they're trying to, the NBA is, is trying to, and probably will open up a league in Europe, an NBA sanctioned league like a whole other league. Yeah, you're gonna need a face. It would help if that face is European, Luca doncic on the Lakers now, big market la playing with LeBron. I mean, and once again, if you look at the teams that have been sold, there's only, I said two, but there's three. It is the Lakers, the sell at six, and the Knicks. That's why the like the Knicks, you could sell as a team, because that the Knicks brand is New York, right? The Lakers is La Boston. Is just Boston. You can sell those teams. I mean, you're not selling the Indiana Pacers to anybody in in China, but, but the thing is, they will have to the NBA will have to sell them. If they are they keep making it to the conference finals. No, the NBA is gonna have to sell the guy, the the main guy who's getting them there. But that's what I'm saying, though, like, like the main guy who's getting in there is going to be Tyree. Yeah, right, but it but, like everybody knows. I mean, Tyree halbern is a great basketball player, um, but he's not like the star. He doesn't have the star power of even like SGA or ant. But you wouldn't, would you say that if he got to the finals three years in a moment? No, because he plays for the Pacers. Nobody wants to see the Pacers. And that's that's unfortunate, but that's the truth, like and but my point is, if he makes it, if he keeps making it to the conference finals, in the in the NBA Finals, you're gonna have to sell the Pacers somehow. They're gonna they're gonna sell Tyrese as the face of the Pacers. But like, you're gonna have to market the Pacers. And you know, if Ty Reese is the consistent face we're seeing all the time, or, you know, if it's, you know, Aunt Edwards, or SGA, or someone, some of these other new guys, you know, it's, it's going to be a, there's a battle, you know, there's, there's a, there's a battle, and there's a, I think there's a healthy struggle with the with the with the with the face thing, but I don't necessarily know that any one of them is going to come out on top. Because the thing is, I don't think the Pacers are going to keep making you I think it's going to be I think it's I think championship windows are closing, yeah, way faster than they used to. And so when you have more parity, more turnover, you're not going to get a face like Steph or LeBron, because LeBron made it to what eight, eight like straight finals. I forget what the number is, like, 10. Yeah. It's like, it's like LeBron and Steph and Katie are always in the finals, right? I don't think we, I don't think Luca SGA and Tyrese are going to dominate the finals for the next 10 years. I think it's going to be some like, ridiculous combination of like, SGA Luca, when b Jason Tatum, you know, until guys start teaming up again. Yeah, but, but I don't think the the second apron is ruining everybody's plans, taking that all the way down. So it's it's tough. So I hear what you're saying. I still think the NBA would consider pertinent for them to find a face for them they can put behind. And I do think it will be, when be I mean, when wimby is out here seven four, and he and he gets to his his level, where he's like, fuck it. Nobody can stop me. I'm gonna drop 40 and 15 tonight. I think that at that, you know, seven four shooting from 34 I think it'll just look, I think he has a thing. It is gonna look so wild. You. And it's like, Yo, we have no chance. And once again, they're trying to take it, they're trying to be like, actually global. Like, have have actual global, you know, try to take it to a soccer level. Because, I mean, I think that's what you try to turn it into in soccer, that you know, how to face soccer had multiple faces, I guess you had Ronaldo and you had Messi at the same time, but that was like, you know, Braun and curry. So I always feel, I always feel like you need it every, every sport needs a healthy face. If not, that's how you turn into like, I mean, look at baseball before judging, before Ohtani. I mean, look at what the MLB was going through before Ohtani. And you still, you got guys, you had the the Yale please, of the time you had, you know, and you had guys who were, who were consistent, Bryce Harper, but, I mean, the MLB was like, Yo, this game is going down the hole. We gotta, you know, change the innings, pitch clock, all this stuff. Hey, here's this, you know, 652, way guy from Japan. Yeah, we need him please come save this game. Oh, it happened again. Oh, no. Oh, he ain't got that Verizon Fios crazy. Oh, man, no. I just, I just moved into my new apartment. So, oh yeah, I don't, I don't even have Wi Fi. I've been living off my hotspot. I've been living on my hotspot for a month. I had no idea. I had no idea the guy's so funny. I had no clue. So, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, do you have cable? You said, Did I have no, do you have cable now? No, so what are you about to watch The Big Lebowski of you. You hooked to the hospital. I connected my Xbox to my hospital. It's bad, bro, it's bad. I gotta make do, man, I get it, bro. Look, I I'm not judging. I'm not Oh, man, that's funny. That's the real, that's the real. Well, going back to this um, two sensationalized um media and whatnot, please explain to me then, not saying it's the same thing. And I am definitely not an avid watcher enough to make an educated decision about this. However, please explain to me how South Park you feel is not only a necessary evil in today's science, but something you felt so strongly to text me on my phone and say, I'm not gonna, quote, unquote, but something along the lines of, nigga, you need to watch this new South Park season. Yeah, bro. Like, I think I never have been the AVID South South Park watcher. Like, I watched a couple episodes before, and I really wasn't all that entertained, but, and you know this, this episode wasn't like, hilarious, but I thought it was really, like, interesting that how like, direct the South Park creators were in like, targeting the Trump administration and like being Welcome on like, current issues, like, for people who haven't watched, the premise of the episode is, like, Eric Cartman is, he's, he's like, sad because woke is dead and and because, You know, the new administration, everybody is, like, empowered by the new administration to, like, just be assholes and, like, unempathetic as and so now he can't even clown people for being woke, because being woke isn't even cool anymore. Like, it's cool to be an asshole now. Uh, so, so, like, you know, and then at some point they cut to, like Trump's character, which is like, actually just of like a cut out of Trump's face I didn't like, which I wasn't expecting. I really thought it was going to be because I knew they were going to comment on Trump and do commentary on that, but I thought it was like, going to be a character named like Donald Trump, and it'll be like, and it's like, like a character that kind of looks like him, or it was like, literally just his face. And they were, they were, they had him in the bed with the dead, like, literally in the bed with the devil. Like, like, like, like, the devil is his lover. Like, it was, it was, like, real scathing, real, real world. I mean, I guess that's what South Park is, yeah. And so I think I was a little bit not thrown off, but like, yeah, I was a little bit thrown off. I was taken aback by how direct of a commentary provided on, on, on Trump, and they, I know that they might be getting sooner, so they probably are getting soon. They're definitely getting, I think you know what's funny is they, like, preempted the lawsuit. So like they, I think they mentioned it in the episode. And so now, if Trump sues them, now, it's going to look real crazy because, but, I mean, you know, he doesn't really care, so, so they did a real good cultural critique of what was going on now, not even, like, I don't know. I mean, I haven't watched it, but I from what I've watched, I mean, there are some pretty. Exaggerative, ridiculous over the top. And, I mean, they get to real stuff, but it's very deep underneath the surface of creating ridiculous commentary. Yeah, they had, like, they had Jesus, like trying to it was, it was crazy. It was, I don't, I can't even say that. It was, like, a good cultural commentary. It was just like, I like, I said I saw and I was like, whoa. This is a lot. It was just where they went. It was how far they went with it. Yeah, how, how far and how direct they were, how far they went, how they how direct they were at targeting, like, the Trump presidency, like he was, like, walking through the White House and like, he there was, like, crazy pictures of Trump, like, hung up, just doing crazy, weird shit. Like it was, it was like, if I were Trump and I watched that shit, I'll be embarrassed. I'll be like, Man, this is what people think about. Oh, but it's interesting. No, he don't get flying shit. It's interesting to think about, like, you know, because they're coming out that time, that time with the boondocks. And I go back and watch Darren Magruder is like, my goat, so I go back and watch that all the time, try to study and learn things. And he didn't pull punches at all, and that was what took me back. So when I first watched, I was like, oh shit. He's like, direct out the gates, and they're the same thing. And a lot of family, like, it was even family guy back in the day, like, you were allowed to make cotton, kind of, it sounds like the sentiment of what they're saying. You were allowed to to commentate, actually, on society. And it's a very interesting, it's such an interesting thing right now, of how we live in a society now. I'm not going to try to get that at essential, but we live in a society right now where everybody has opinions. People espouse them. We people, everybody has a podcast, some people with multiple who thinks they're so important. Um, you know, everybody has a microphone to speak into, speaks into them, says, says pretty much what they say, feeling like there's a lack of consequences in their free speech. But there, there seems to be, at the same time of that, more infringement on people's free speech. Ie, the Trump, you know, administration actually suing people, cutting funding from people for stuff like that. But on the same side, you know, this cancel culture thing, where now so many people feel like they can't say anything. It's like those very I grapple with it all the time, even when I'm sitting editing the clips for the podcast, like looking like, Oh, is that? Did we go? Did I say go? Too hard here? Do we say the wrong thing? They're like, yeah. But the backdrop is we have this time in the society where, I mean the President's posting, means of fucking people being deported. You see that one Homeland Security post? Yeah, the jet to holiday. You said? What the jetsu holiday? No, same thing. Which one is? Like, the caption was like, remember where you came from, or something like that. And it was like, it was like a white couple on, like, the prairie inlet, bro, you don't know talking about this one viral too, bro, these motherfucker Is this, like, kind of mean right now, with this sound that's like a jet to holiday, and it's, it's like this getaway vacation experience. That's the sound and and the but the video will be someone like, crash now and punching somebody or something like that. That's like what the meme started out as these motherfuckers the White House. I think it was the White House account posted of like a highlight tape of people being deported, putting them on the plane, getting them there, showing all the camera all in people's face with that sound behind it, bro. That's crazy. That's crazy media, like mass media, actual media, bro. That's like in the media. So you, as I'm saying, you can do that, but, but, but I can't come on here and be like, you know, talk inflammatory about the ministry. It's just odd. It's odd place right now. But I don't know how much is real and how much isn't, because, like I said, at the same time, you have so many people like, saying a whole bunch of stuff on podcast. Oh, I think we about to undo something here. You have a bunch of people saying, people saying things on podcast, but you don't have the South Park thing, and that's kind of what I want to get to and, like, Why? Why is that not happening? Like, what do you why? Why are you and I and the likes of us scared to go hard into, into, into, go as hard as, and this gets to the media sound thing. I think this can kind of be the situation. Why? Why are we as good mannered people? I think I can come up with a few reasons so averse to taking it to that level, to taking it to the level of, I guess, a. Noxious. I mean, some of it is plain just being a terrible person. And I know that's probably starters right there, but even in a way like South Park having actual critique, that is, it can be jokes, but it's still very in front of your face to where you know exactly what we're talking about. Not all this highfalutin comedy that like, you know, Dave Chappelle shit that takes three years for you to get the joke. Like, there's people making content and comedy about in situational comedy about today's society, but they don't like they always fall right short of getting into the actual nuance of the problem, and it seems like a fear of the retaliation, which is so interesting, because we live in a society where you seem like you can say anything. So I it's a lot of those dynamics just at play by all of this that we're saying this thing of like, who's allowed to say what and to what extent, that was just a lot. And I don't mean to drop you on that and say, Hey, solve all of society's communication problems. But you know, just to start with, why do you feel as if people like us in today's times where people seemingly do not give a shit what they say, why we care so much about you know, what we say and how we say it. I mean, there's so many different things. It's, it's like one of the things that comes to mind. The first thing is, like self preservation, as far as, like, your your job, your career, your, uh, obviously fear, fear of retaliation in the workplace is probably like one of the biggest things, losing your job, losing your losing money, or losing your ability to live and pay bills because you espouse a view that is unpopular or that contradicts, like the dominant narrative, and it contradict or it goes against the dominant narrative so drastically that, you know, having you around in a corporate setting, or like a company setting, is like, no, that's not good for the further for the corporation, or the whatever it is. So I think, like self preservation is like the number one thing I think of is just trying to dance around topics and dance around issues in a way that puts a good enough gap between the person and the issue so that they won't face again. They won't face retaliation for talking about it. And I think part of it is also because this administration has emboldened people who do espouse, like, really harmful views, and when you're faced with, when you're faced with those types of people and though, or when you're when you're encountering those types of people, and like far right conservatives, for example, and that that number of people is growing, or that there's a more confident adoption of far right conservative views, you're almost like scared to to delve into, like political talk or or talking about certain discussions, whether it be like in the workplace or, you know, in personal settings, because you you might get into a conversation with somebody and and and become and start feeling threatened because they're saying, I'm a fascist and, and I want to a fascist leader, dictator like, you know, I don't know that there you might, you might feel threatened by by someone's views if you try to engage, if you try to engage with them in a conversation. So I think it's, it's again, that's kind of a self preservation thing too. But those are, those are my immediate thoughts, but it's interesting. I i originally, I think that is probably a huge thing, um, but Republicans have jobs too. What did Michael Jordan say? Republicans buy shoes too like, but you're saying because that's kind of like the dominant discourse right now, being able to say those things are in fashion exactly like it's it's cool to be far right conservative right now, because think about it, like, optics are a really big thing. Look, Pete hexa, P, except is what, like, I forget what his defense secretary, yeah, the Defense, the Secretary of the Department of Defense, or something, and like, he's, like, a younger. A white alpha male, and he's like, we're gonna bring the warrior ethos back. And so now it's cool to be like, super alright. And so people who have those views are again more emboldened, more empowered to to express those views in public settings. And now that again, going to the South Park episode. Now that being woke is isn't cool anymore. It's not like, it's not like the thing that you're saying, I see it so it's actually just the shit that these conservative people kept talking about all during by Biden's campaign on college campuses, we just feel like we can't. We just like we don't have freedom of speech on the campus. She's like, No, you just can't call people niggers and be inflammatory. You can say other things, um, but I see, I see what's going on. Okay. That makes sense. That makes sense. I still feel as if, though people are going too far not saying things I feel like at this point, and I want to take time like champion, you know, you have guys like Deontay Kyle who are starting to, like, actually say the things that need to be said. Yeah, like whole next account, people like Mark Lamont Hill. I mean, people would like to like to, you know, I appreciate Deontay cows so much more. Obviously, Mark Lamont Hill is like a scholar, scholar. So the, you know, it can be very overheads of many people who listen to that. But deontic, I was, like, I drove a truck. Like, I'm a regular dude, bro, like, 13 times before. He's so crazy. It's not funny, but, like, he said something like that. But, yeah, he, I mean, he, he is. I feel like the best example of like, no like, these things do need to be said and need to be talked about. But he gets a lot of backlash, though he does, he gets a shit ton of that's another thing. It's like, not only is it, you might face backlash from white people, we might, you might face backlash from people in your own community. Well, that's the worst part. And we got it about 30 minutes. If you want to get on these we can get on these blacks too. But that is the worst part. I'll get there at least touch on it. That is a bad part right now too, is the lack of the one thing I will say, probably a big thing too. Republicans say something, there's an echo chamber in their support. I mean, there's people that show up and are like, hell yeah. I believe that, yeah. I mean, just off the strength that it's that it's from Trump, or, like, their administration, or or look at the many Hassan thing. People clap it. I want you to get out. It's like, Whatever, whatever they were saying. It's like, Yo, if it's anti this we are supporting. I mean, you can't get three niggas to be on the same page about anything. There's not one topic that that you could get, that we could, that we could Canvas 10 random black people and put them in a room and be like, Hey, Do we all agree on this one thing? Boy, that would, that would be tough. And then, and then and then, to get support, support publicly, too, especially talking about something that's unpopular. Yeah, when? So, what do you think in I don't even, I don't like talking about it from like, a blame perspective, because I don't know. Oh, we about to blame. Oh, I'm blaming some somebody, somebody, somebody has to that's that Greg Abbott. Greg Abbott, after he, after 100 niggas died on his watch because of the flood in Texas, was like, good, uh, leaders don't blame they just, uh, take accountability and move on and do better next time. Well, to take accountability, somebody has to be blamed for how the failed the first time. So, so possibilities. Who we gonna blame? Who's the first on your mind? Like, maybe not who? But like, academic, academic niggas. Okay, these liberal black people who have been in power of black social commentary for the past 3020, 30 years. You know these professors who have been at these at these universities, these Africa? I mean, I don't know if you look at Africana studies departments and at colleges, but they're pretty old. Like, by, oh, I've been talking about the people who work there. Like, there's not a lot of young people in these departments. Um, the same thing you do. Same thing here. Same thing every, every university I have been to and had, which has been at least five um, across diff, different parts of the country, they're not that young. So that's the first part where the people with the actual information and knowledge of these movements, of the civil rights movements of, you know, the 90s of the 80s, of the Black Panther Party of Tulsa, the people with the actual knowledge of these things. There is such a. Disconnect between the knowledge and the people who holds them, and people like you and I, because that knowledge and that understanding is tied up in these academic institutions and the research these niggas can tribute to, besides like Nicole Hannah Jones is. And I'm not saying, I mean, there, there is great things that come out of African American studies departments, and I'm not about to blank a statement say they suck. However, the research and what they put forward is not largely disseminated to definitely not our generation of black people. There's, there's, there is a communications problem with the information and how to get it there. So if these are the people with the information, and they have all of it, and they have the knowledge that there's no way of talking to, they all of the ways they reach out to antiquated panels, right? And then there, and then there is this. And then you get into the hierarchy of it, did you go to Howard? You know, saying, Did you go to Howard, I'm black in the Ivy League. Oh, nigga, I'm here, if we're gonna talk about it, nigga, I'm talking about this shit. Like, oh yeah no, because that's, I mean, but that's the real problem with it. It's like, where's information coming from? I'm sitting here trying to composite rap study, and it's like a dude at UVA, shout out to ad Carson at UVA, not Harvard. Had the NAS Jones fellowship. Bun B teaches a course at rap, and Lupe is teaching at MIT. None of these people are talking to each other like so. So do you think there's a disconnect between the like the old guard and absolutely, but it's taught. I'm saying because it's tied up through the academia. So we always have the there is the capital problem between all this, which we can get to which the black capitalism, but in terms of just pure information, how much of it is tied up in academia and the old guard, because that was the one place they could go and be free and intelligent and be black. They that's the arena, and that's what they know. And these niggas control these situations. You're, you're a doctor at Howard. I'm sure that's a very great place for you to go. You go, people come and ask you questions. You are. You know, you're the guy. You're the professor of political science, African American Political Science, and Howard, I don't know if that's a position, but it is. But, I mean, but if it is, for example, just to say, if I am this person, how that person is looked at in our community, when you're talking about being in DC, when the Smithsonian is calling, when these people are calling, I mean, these people are important in their realms. They i They get so caught up in that shit and the who's who, and what's what, who, whose name is on the research all that verse the actual mission of like yo, what about the kids who are coming through here, who, the common kid who, like is not going to sit and go to your office hours and sit and talk because they're fascinated because they have a whole bunch of things going around. That's where a lot of I put a lot of the informational and communication issue that our generation has, especially when the internet comes out. So you have nobody guiding us, our generation, on how to how to actually form a protest, how to start a movement, how to strategically change systems. No, there's no guidance on that, because that's what they did. They was just like, Well, why am I giving that information up? Because what happens is, a nigga like me and you come along with some ideas, and it's like, okay, yeah, see that what you're talking about doesn't work anymore, so now you should probably be unearthed from your position and position. And that's not okay, because, you know, that's playing with people's money. So I definitely think in the in the academic sense, there was an old guard that does not want to let the younger guard in and take the reins, because that's the only thing they really have. If you look at black intellectualism, where, where are all of the older people located, because it's not on the internet. It's not in like spaces that that are in little communities you I mean, you have certain things, yeah, in Philly, you have the elders and but you have the foi in Houston, man, it's not like a barber shop I could, I'm sure there's one. But, you know, back in the day, you could go to a place and seek out elder knowledge, a bar room, a pool house, right? Like, that's just where older guys hung out. It's so silent now, here's where they got to get together. Is now is in academia. So, I mean, look at that's where the DI shit started. Yeah, that's where that shit started. And what was it? A bunch of fucking prayer groups in circles and wellness meetings and all this shit. It had nothing, nothing to do with like, actual black advancement and helping. I mean, think about we are the DI generation. We went to college when this was propagated. Yeah, less black people are going less black men are going to college now than ever. And that didn't just. Start this year is that there's been a decline. So I it. That's where I feel like the conversation should start. And this just doesn't start there, with the people who actually like, if you go look and say, okay, somebody had this information at some point, because we always talk about it from our generation, as we're at such a loss, let's get to the people who had the information, right? The one thing I will say about like that, then there, then there's this and this getting then you can get into the capitalism side, because you're like, Who do we blame for this, for how fractured the community is? We'll get to the white people in crack and all this. So we got the academia, academia with the old niggas who want to just seem intelligent, right? Shout out to people like Mark Hill, once again, Marco Moss, like he see he had an opportunity. He's like, I can stay, I can be at Temple. I can teach and just be in side load and be around here. But he's like, No, I'm gonna go to the media. I'm gonna go on these reels. I'm gonna go to Joe Budden. I'ma have these conversations. So so someone like me and someone like you can see that if he did it, we would have no idea it what the he's doing, right, like, so there's just no outreach in that point. Then you have the black capitalism people, the people with the money. And sometimes that is those two are together, but for the most part, those pretty different people, the Jack and Jill crowd, right? Those type, those types who are like, there's this caste system of blackness that we want to keep going on here. Um, yeah, that don't work either. That don't work. It don't it don't help in that. And that's how these are people who are high working professionals, CEOs, executives, right? And it's like, I'm just gonna hang out with, with with those other people. I'm not going to go to the common person in these neighborhoods I grew up in because I go back and I don't want to have to deal with whatever. I'm going to only hang with people who make an upwards of $600,000 and who drive a S class, right? If you and I as young people are coming out here trying to say something and try and need some sort of backing, we're trying to say something that may potentially be against the current of what's going on, and we need someone to stand up and say something, yeah, it'd be great if we had 50,000 just fans of people like us, who are just like hey, because they really believe in the message. What really would help is if we had somebody with some motherfucking money who was willing to put their bread up behind it. Yeah, but how did they get to these positions they're in to have these higher earning jobs? They like kissing ass, yeah? Pandering. They like pandering to good old uncle Charlie, so they're not going to stand up either. So I think that's where, I mean, yeah, our generation got shit we can fix. We are distracted. We got phones but, but we are. I mean, you know, at the at the top of our generation, whatever we 2526 we're a direct product of this exact situation that we were put in by, you know, the what was that that would be my mom's generation? What Gen X? Um, I mean, my mama did a great job. Not her, she's killing y'all need to start taking some goddamn lessons on how to do this shit. But for most of her generation, this is the problem. I mean, my mom's had the same friends for like, 20 years because of this exact thing. Like, all of her friends have been the same friend She's had the whole time. And I always used to wonder, I'm like, Mom, you're like, you know, you're moving in a bunch of these different spaces and all this black stuff. And it's like, everywhere she goes, it's caste systems. It's people just finding new ways to create hierarchies. And I think academia for sure, for sure, and we, I'm, we don't, because I already saw how niggas is comfortable. But especially HBCUs propagate, and especially very good ones propagate that, that that shit that we have going on, which is who can be the special Negro, nobody wants to be the head nigger in charge, but everybody wants to be the special negro. Who can be the special house nigga to be like, Yo, when Whitey comes calling and says and George Bush is like, I need an ambassador. Who can that be as who can be? Who's going to be Gavin Newsom? Who's gonna be Gavin Newsom guy that they go to that, okay, you get to dole out all these dollars to the black community. Yeah, that's that, that's, that's, that's, that's the other, that's like, I feel like the two sides of the coin right now of what is fucking us, because our generation is broke. We don't have, we don't have the capital, and we don't have the resources. We don't own homes. We don't right, so like these things that there is no Olive Branch being extended to be able to drive that. And I, once again, I'm saying no, there's no national, or even quasi national, concerted effort. Yeah, in major cities like. Houston, New York, DC, you're gonna have these pipelines. You're gonna have these through these certain institutions. But in terms of getting a multitude of people on the same page, even regionally, there's no there's no leadership. I mean, look at fucking Dr Umar nigga. And you know what's sad, man, is that. And we've said this before, how Dr Moore being like the face of Pan Africanism and like black intellectual thought is like, really bad, but it's sad that there hasn't been, like, another black male figure that has tried to challenge and like put themselves, because this is what we also do too. This we don't talk about black people badly in public. So I'm sure you can't call Dr Umar and talk to him in private, and he's gonna be trying to hear none of that shit that if I called Dr Umar tomorrow and was like, yo, hey, just by the way, I'm really not feeling this rhetoric surrounding you know, the black family and how you have it. Can we talk about this? I'm sure he's probably not gonna be trying to hear what I've talked about. Yeah, the only way to get through to him is in a public platform, as in public forum and but then that gets into the line of and you see it all the time in the comments. Man, we don't need to do this. We maybe we should keep this in house. We should. And what was, once again, it's like, who's bidding are we doing? Why should we keep this in house? And there's definitely a double edged sword too, because it's, again, kind of like the Jubilee thing, where we don't want to platform bullshit, like, there's, there's like, there's definitely a fine line of, like, having a critical discussion about, you know, interracial marriage and stuff like that. Or, you know, platforming, just like ridiculous ideas and having a conversation that, like, really leads to nowhere, just for the sake of entertainment. So I think that there's like, again, social media has provided us, or has has hamstrung us, with, like, this weird, um, concern of, like, how, how can I have a discussion with somebody that's like, actually critical, and it's not inflammatory, yeah, inflammatory and bullshit. And we're not just here screaming at each other and and calling each other gooms And just so let's get So, let's get to this thing. Because this goes back to the Jubilee thing too. How do you and this is, this is I've been trying to, I've been asking you this question, I feel like, for the past five weeks the conversation, how so? Like, let's take, let's just take a Dr gumar, yeah, how do you because you're saying you don't, you don't want to, we don't want to sensationalize, you know, inflammatory rhetoric. We don't want to have a show of pageantry of just who can scream the loudest, right? How do I then engage in, how do we thoughtfully dispel exactly what we're trying to dispel, and say our problems? This is my central point of the conversation I'm having of people being scared to say these things, right? Like I feel like I have to be the person to say, hey, Howard niggers, that's not okay. Hey, Jack and Jill crowd, that's not okay. Pass the information down, right? How do you I see I do it in that manner. And now it's like, Okay, now, who does this think now? Now, now we're having a personal now. Now someone seems personal problem. I'm clearly not the Well, first of all, I am the nigga with issue, because this is a problem. So we've acknowledged that this is a problem. What happens is, let's take Dr Umar, Hey, Dr Umar, like that shit that you're talking about, X, Y and Z, nah, nigga, that's not what it is. He don't feel personally attacked about that, and now we're having a personal thing. How do you engage within the and have these conversations and say, let's go. And I think he would be someone who might be open. So I've seen him openly debate and have good faith debates about things. So I'm not, I'm not saying he wouldn't, but in terms of what people want to listen to and what people want to hear, how this is the grand question I'm trying to ask, how do you debunk this spell, this, this, disapprove, disavow, I don't fucking know. How do you disavow these types of characters without actually disavowing them publicly. Like, I think the community has to, like, have a collective knowledge and understanding of like Dr Umar or like somebody like Dr Umar is just an entertainer. Like, yeah, you know, it's or, you know, I don't want to reduce, no, I'm reducing the negative. But like, there has to certain, there certainly has to be a collective understanding of, like, this is not the face of black thought, black political thought. This is just. Uh, one single black man that has certain beliefs that I that are questionable. Sometimes, I'll just say that, but, um, but again, people, people are engaging with his content, like, seriously, like, if there is people who seriously engage with him, as if he is a black political thought leader. It's like he's, this is obviously crazy comparison, but it's like he's the Marcus Garvey of like, of our time. No, it's not a crazy comparison. He is the Marcus Garvey of our time. It. But it sounds crazy, but, but the the reality is, when you think of Pan Africanism, that's like the first mind that pops up, or first person that pops up in your mind, like, that's widespread and, you know, virally known. And I think that this is, I want to tie in, like the Democrats, maybe like the black Democrats who, this is where it's it's really important for there to be knowledge of, like, how to communicate a platform, build a platform and communicate it on social media, as opposed to just like, just ignoring it as if it doesn't exist. Like social media is the new frontier of like, politics. You know, it is the new, I mean, I guess it always has been, to a certain degree. But like, having social media is, like, you have multiple social media accounts. Everybody has YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, all that stuff. And so, like, you're getting a lot of your political discourse through those things. And so people like the Democrats, black Democrats particularly, and just black thought leaders in general, need to be intentional about constructing like a plan that that incorporates social media into, like pushing their fire. And I don't think that there's enough of that right now. There's individuals. There's like you said, Deonte Kyle on, like the sort of common person level, and then like Mark Lamont Hill on, like the academic level. But there's no, can we get a Deonte Kyle and Mark Lamont Hill podcast, can we get a Deonte Kyle X mark Lamont Hill X, poegley, correct? Podcast. Oh, we get so here's the thing, as you saying this, it sound like what they need is two young sproutly Negroes to come and give some advice. No, but that's actually what it is. Not because you, but that's exactly what they need. They need people like us, but they have but, but, I mean, the CBC has, it has internships. Every year. They got summer internships. They got summer interns. Why? I mean, I definitely think you're on point with that. I think also gatekeeping might need to be in place. Someone needs to say, Hey, Dr Umar, he's not okay. You are not a thought leader, bro and like that needs to be okay with being said. I think there's, there's a problem too. People like you have people actual like people like Roland Martin, people like Mark Lamont Hill, people like shit. Even Tavis Smiley. Even Tavis Smiley. People who exist in these spaces, need to stand up and be like, Yo, like you're not one of us, bro. Just because you have a platform and just because you have a following does not mean that is worthy of being spoken about. And I think I feel like, I mean white people do it all the time too. I mean that really is some white people shit where it's like anybody get a microphone and just talk. I think black culture has adopted that, and that is that has become a bit of a problem. You go ahead, man, get it off, because I got, I got I got more I got some more fire because I got the CBC head. Fuck. It'd be shit like this. Why in the fuck is busy performing at the C at the CBC the Congressional Black Caucus. Just for those that don't know what the CBC is, why is Lil Boosie in 2025 performing at the CBC is like kick off wellness event thing? Why is that a thing? Who the is doing, the programming nigga? Is that focused? Is that focused? That is honestly a time, and, you know, that's honestly a time to bring, like, a Kendrick in, like, that's like, to bring somebody in that's like, I can name at least 50 niggas who we should have brought in before Lil Boosie, yeah, but like, somebody who has a target is gonna, like, present a targeted message, as opposed to rapping about independence, I and I mean, he's gonna bring a targeted message of some shenanigans and some bullshittery. And so that's going back. To the doctor. One more thing, when can we separate ourselves from this sensationalized this is, this is a big problem we have too. Why everything gotta be Anthony? Anthony Mackey, yo. Motherf is I'm Tupac. We why everything gotta be like that? Why can't it be real good, actual conversationalist having good low, down to earth conversations like this. Why does it always have to be big versus Tupac. Shoot them up. Bang, bang. Kendrick Drake, everything gotta be yo why it always gotta be nigga moments. Yeah, every all of our, all of our media has to be this. Gil gills are. Mean the sports media you, I mean, you rarely have people just sitting down having actual conversations. And once again, I'm not this is not a black. This is not a black like white people do this more than anybody else fucking doesn't have anything that is intellectual in the slightest. So they've had whole sub cultures of this shit. We can't afford to do this. I think that's that's the thing of we can't afford to do this. And it's always this conversation. If it's like, well, if they can, well, why can't we? Because we're not white. That's why. That's why, if you want to go be white, sorry buddy, you can't. So that'd be the problem. We can't do that. The problem is a lot of people actually do want to be closer in proximity to whiteness. And like I was, I was, somebody has sent me a book recommendation. The book is literally called, Why? Why should white guys have all the fun? I was like, I never read. I'm never, ever going to read that because. And the cover is like, some, some, you know, older black dude, like a cigar and like a suit on. And it's like, it paints this image of us as, like we are always chasing whiteness. We always need to be being we always need to be getting closer to whiteness. Or, you know, yeah, and it's just sad because people are chasing. I'll stop there. My train of thought was about to go somewhere different, but no, you good people are chasing out. I'll jump on that. I think what you what you're saying is, and I see it too, like people are chasing, yeah, I don't think you know, everybody want to be a nigga, so you, I mean, you know you want to have the beautiful skin you have and the abilities to dance and rap and all that stuff, the great things that black people have, right? We all want those, but in proximity to whiteness, you want, we want their resources. We want their wealth. We want their systems. We want all of this, but, and that can be fine, too, but where it I think it goes a little far as we want to be able, going back to last conversation, we want to be able to do what they do and how they do it like them. And that is the problem, because we can't one we can't enslave a bunch of niggas, so we probably already starting off on the wrong foot. I mean, there's, there's already a dynamic of 400 years of history of the culture that they have that we just don't have. That's just not, that's we don't got that specifically talking about here in America, right? So everything following that. You want the house that they got. You want the you know, you want the woman that they got. You want the car that they got. You want the job that they have. Um, have you on the job to make it, to make it seem like you are on like, you know, because they are the level there is the standard of excellence. And in the media, we want to do things exactly how they do it, because it's going back to communications. We want to communicate how they communicate. Fuck the fact that we have rap music, which is one of the most transformative tools of communication of the of the 21st Century. We don't put that to, like, actual use for knowledge and spreading things. We want to, you know, we want to go on. CNN, we want to go on. You know, Joe Rogan, we want to, you know, we want to do everything, everything that they do and how they do it? Oh, they have reality TV. We want to do reality TV too. We want to be rambunctious niggas too, right? Because, why don't we get to do um, and then we put ourselves into that's what we sell most of Tyler Perry shit I'm fucking with like, I'm fine with it if you do it for an ends to the means, but my nigga, why are we doing downtrodden black woman porn at 50 years old, when you were up like $500 million yeah. What is it with these niggas to where we can't let the the suffering in the in the bullshit go? Why can't we just be like happy regular black people? You. Just everyday life. Hey, man, I get to talk to Isaiah today. Life is good. What? When did that stop? Probably crack. Oh, back to, if I had to guess, is Ronald Reagan did a number on, I mean, that is literally where it all goes. Back to, um, it's bad. I don't know. I'm just at this point. I'm just, I'm just, I'm just throwing these things out there, just trying to understand, I'm sure, hopefully, wonderful. Uh, listeners, you know, let us know your comments and your thoughts on these things. Um, yeah, because I mean it. I'm sitting looking around and and you're talking, I think we're sitting right at the exact time, and this is why we're doing this. I mean, yes, I wholeheartedly agree we should be in people like us should be the people to be having conversations with these politicians of like yo, what is the disconnect? Because clearly they're not doing the service of trying to understand it. And if they're not, I Please show me who what focus group y'all are fucking looking at. Because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to say, hey, like Kai snack, got all these followers and whatever, and, yeah, this is my thing. They have all the data. That's what's so hard for me to understand. They have the data the I know. I know these campaign these campaign teams. I know what? They don't have a short of motherfucking computer people analyst and, yeah, they have a lot of people who just sit all day and look at numbers and do spreadsheets and shit. So I don't understand what the disconnect and the lack of translation between this the same thing at universities doing this, going back to my African state, y'all do all this research, all of this research. How is, how is it not being able to be spread? How are y'all able to figure out how to, how to, how to research, um, you know how Megan the stallion impacts black women's sexuality and shit like that, but y'all can't then go disseminate the information. And y'all, y'all, y'all, telling me, y'all, so y'all can figure out the actual issue, but y'all can't get the information out there. That, to me, seems like a lack of trying, because it's like, you know, that may not be your area expertise. You're, you're, you know, you're a political scientist, that's fine. How about you go ask one of your students, right? Like, this is the type of stuff work study is supposed to be for. It's just there's these disconnects, and there is these things, and is at a point where it starts to feel as if we're getting in our own way. In a lot of these issues. There's there are in one not enough of people like us stepping up and saying one publicly now, so I'm glad we're saying it now, just to put it out there and continue to say this publicly and privately as we go, Hey, we're people from our generation who, like, we want to change this issue. Because I don't think there's enough of that. I think our generation is like, look, these old niggas not trying to help us. So we just don't do it our way and figure it out. Because you know, what advice can they give? You could buy a home at 22 you can't buy a home now, right? Like, the world was so different. We have, you know, 20 V ones and all of this crazy, like, the world is so crazily different. Um, how good is your advice? Right? There is that side to it which there is, um, it's reasonable in certain in certain instances. Um, but I mean, someone needs to step up and say, Hey, we need to get this figured out and get on the same page. Because once again, the disparities and things like wealth access to resources, just generationally between black people is wild. So somebody needs to do our bidding and get and get in these positions on the other side. And I would, I'm going to put this on the elder people need to to, it's going to be maybe too late for y'all to start establishing your own systems, because y'all are so deep into the system. But I mean, there are mentors, mentorship circles. There are, you know, programs and stuff for this to happen, but I think there, there needs to be a little bit more of a collective, collective. There's just nobody on the same page at the end of the day. And I think that's what it comes down to. There's no collective, there's no leadership. There's no leader. There's no true leader. That's where this first and foremost starts. There is no true leader. And everybody who steps up to be a leader, it's is met with all kinds of, you know, ridicule and picking a part of if they're fit to be a leader or not. And then you have niggas like Cory Booker, who you stand up and you want to be a leader. And then you go sit down for six months, and now you the next time you get up and scream at everybody in Congress is because you want some more funding for your police officers. Oh nigga, shut up, you know. So it's like, look at the people we have in place. Look at the people we have chosen. We need to take a real good look on the people we. Have chosen the people at the CBC the Congressional Black Caucus, who once again, had Boosie at their and Boosie badass at whatever event they had to commemorate something with black politics. Boosie badass was their headlining performer. I'm going to keep saying this because it's ridiculous. We have reached a point where it's not making sense anymore, and we like, yes, weird, some we don't have all the answers. We are not, I'm not going to fix all of this in in, you know, maybe not even in my lifetime, but I think it's due time for us to start being able to say, at least, hey, this is ridiculous. Yeah, badass at the CBC event is ridiculous in 2025, in the Obama years, I might let you. I might let you do it right now. It's not time for that shit. You let her call Wale or comment or some shit like that. You know, like, we don't, like, Nah, bro. Like, we that. That's bad. That's, that's real bad. So I don't know this is, this was very circular communication. I mean, it's this. What do you feel like the biggest disconnect here is, do you think it's community? Is the communication problem? I mean, we it's a lot of problems at play here. But do you if you were to just pick the top two kind of problems. I look at everything we just talked today about about a communications issue. There is an issue being able to communicate the thoughts that we have right now in a civil manner and and people can't look outside themselves and have actual communication with people. Yeah, nah, it's definitely communication. And the one thing I've the I forget his name, the governor, the candidate for governor in New York. What's in your numerous Well, the one who's his name because I saw, maybe it's not the governor race he's talking about is the mayor race with the dude. I know exactly you're talking about, the dude who just won right now he didn't win. Oh, do you not win now he Oh, I don't know. Yeah, my mind, yeah, I thought he won. Maybe he did, I don't know, but I think, I think he made it past one of, like, the preliminary election, okay, but, oh, it hasn't even happened yet. I'm tripping, yeah, one of the things I really like about him, I saw a clip of him from the Breakfast Club, yeah, which again, like he's on, he's on a staple of a staple media platform of the black community. And he communicated his platform and his message, like, very well, you know, verbally he he was able to, they were asking him, like, I think, you know, some tough questions, or, like, some questions that require him to put a lot of critical thought into his answer. And he was keep conveyed it very well to the point where, like, if you heard him speak, you'd be like, Okay, this is somebody who knows what he's talking about. This is somebody who has a plan, and, you know, even if, whatever, even if you don't agree with that plan, it's still intentional. He's still putting in intent, intentional, you know, will behind it, and so I don't see enough of that in, you know, the Democratic Party, and you know, black political thought in general right now, because again, like you said, we have a bunch of older politicians in power, And they're not focused on disseminating their information on social media platforms like The Breakfast Club, like Mark Lamont Hill going on to the Joe Budden podcast. And I'll be honest, my first reaction to like Mark Lamont Hill on the Joe butter podcast was like, I don't know why Marco, my whole is entertaining. This, this coonery, this downright Sambo shit that they be up there doing absolutely but I think it shows that when the mark on my Hill goes on to the Joe butter podcast, when I keep one, I'm not gonna say that my Mandy, I keep so so my mind going on the Breakfast Club like, that's, that's, it seems to be that these are intentional moves to push forth, you know, political thought on. You know, critical thought in in these, like, entertainment, media spaces, and trying to have, like, an actual conversation, in a way that's like, really, actually conversational, the way that Mark Lamont Hill talk talks about, you know, issue, issues of race and things of that nature, or how, my mind, he talks about his campaign and his platform. It's very conversational. It's very like it's very on a level that like the common person, you can understand and like grapple with. And there's not enough of that. I don't I don't even think that Democrats or black Democrats or political thinkers are trying to communicate their ideas and their thoughts to our generation, or, you know, to the common individual. They just have their idea of what they have, their idea of what the of what these people, these people need, what these need. And they're like, alright, well, we're just gonna go ahead and do that. Gordon, like you said, of course, Corey Burke going into Congress and asking for money to fund the police, is like, Oh, I know. I know what these niggas want, so let me give them money for the police. It's like nobody's asked for that. Yeah, and you and clearly there's some disconnect between, like, your advocacy for your or your platform, and your your constituents.