The Sisterhood Circle Podcast

Mums the Word - Rebuilding the Village for Modern Motherhood

• Sisterhood Circle • Season 2 • Episode 4

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We celebrate mums as the unseen infrastructure of family life while calling out the policies and pressures that make motherhood harder than it should be. Stories from our community, data on UK parental leave and a look at Nordic models lead to practical ways to rebuild the village.

• recognising the invisible micro tasks and emotional load
• how social media, isolation and work pressure erode confidence
• the cost of childcare and early return to work
• maternal mental health, co‑regulation and bonding
• why the village broke and how to rebuild local support
• Nordic parental leave models vs UK policy gaps
• practical steps to ask for and offer help
• community fitness and safe spaces for mums to reconnect

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SPEAKER_02:

Hi, I'm Shivse and I'm Nats, and together we are the Sisterhood Circle podcast. Our vision is to create connections with our community and inspire change in the world. So be sure to subscribe on whatever platform you're listening to to find out more. So let's dive into today's episode.

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to our episode of Mums the Word. We are buzzing about this one. Our mums are literal superheroes. From the moment that you give birth or welcome a child into your life, you literally do not take a day off. Now, our reason for bringing this episode today is we hear day in, day out, in our line of work, I feel like I'm failing. And we want to remind every single one of you mums out there that being a mum is your superpower. Now, today we are going to cover three main points throughout the podcast. Point number one is the reminder that you're doing a great job.

SPEAKER_03:

You definitely are. And I think the next point that we want to look at is the pressures put on mums through social media, through work, isolation, lack of connection, having to return to work far too early, and not having enough support potentially at home, but also by the UK government in comparison to many, many other countries. The effect that these types of things then as a byproduct has on both mum and baby from a physical and a mental point of view. And I think it's so so important that we speak about all of these things because we are all female and we're all in this together. Do you know what I mean? So I think that I would love for us to get started off with this one and just kind of chat about what our findings have been in the club, like and through our friends group, our friend group, sorry, on exactly what it is to be a mum. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you know one of the most one of the saddest things that we can probably hear in the club is when we welcome someone into the club, we take them through like a consultation process, and something that they'll sometimes say is, oh, I'm just a stay-at-home mum. And it's like the the energy is like so negative, like that's all I am, and you go, wait a minute. Like, so you are the caregiver, the supporter, the planner, the doer, the person that does everything for these little humans.

SPEAKER_03:

Like, that is more than just a mum and yeah, and it's 24-7 for forever. Like there's not like a like you don't get a day off from that. And I think that when I hear that, when I hear mum saying I'm just a mum, I think to myself, firstly, like you are literally a superwoman. Like, I cannot even fathom what that would be like to be in charge of a huge human days, like for the rest of your life. It must be like, don't get me wrong, I it would it must be absolutely amazing. And from even like we we'd a chat with my friends, um, and they all absolutely love being a mum, it's the best thing in their life, like by far. Like one of my friends, Leanne, she's like, my wee boy is my best friend, which is which is absolutely incredible, and they have got so many beautiful things to say about being mums. But do you know what I love about my pals is they give the real account of it as well, so they would never change anything for the world, which is just it's brilliant, and their kids, by the way, are just absolutely out of this world, they're brilliant kids, but they also give you the real account of I actually feel like I'm not excelling in any areas in my life. I feel like I'm doing a mediocre job. I feel like um, as much as my partner or my husband's a really, really good support, they maybe look at the bigger tasks, the macro tasks, like taking the wee boy to football or I don't know, putting a washing in. Whereas we are literally cutting about doing absolutely everything for everybody, all of the wee micro tasks that see if they weren't being done on a daily basis, the whole household would fall to pieces. I it would fall to pieces, like your mum or your partner would walk in and be like, what's happened here?

SPEAKER_01:

Honestly, like, see, when you think about those wee micro management things that like a mum naturally just thinks of, even if I think about my own mum, like see the detail that she thinks of that I'm sitting there like, oh, deal with that later on, or think about that later. She is already 15 steps ahead of where like even I am as like a young female, and it goes like they are always just thinking, What's next? What's next? What do I need to do? Where do I need to be? Their entire life, and you can understand why a lot of females get to the point where they might be using language like I'm feeling, yeah, I'm not doing a good job, and what that then does to their whole energetic feel, but also what it does to their mindset and their headspace, so you can see quickly where that whole I'm just a mum comes from, but you're not just a mum, you're super woman.

SPEAKER_03:

I think another thing that we tend to see is um like mums forgetting who they are, yeah, and I think like that's a big thing. I think that when you give so much of yourself again, beautifully, like there is this isn't a negative thing, when you give so much of yourself to another person and your house and your relationship, and then you add in work into this, then when do you actually have that little spark of time for yourself? Like, I have literally had a phone call with my best friend while she's hiding in a cupboard. I swear, I'm not gonna say who it was, but having it in spite of a good thinking of it, but no, like literally, like, because all you hear is mum, mum, mum, mum. Yeah. My nephews one day, like Con and Kane, I think I spoke about them in the last episode. I paid them for one hour 20 quid not to say mum for an hour.

SPEAKER_01:

Did the manager they said Donna Creative thinkers in the beginning of the mum?

SPEAKER_03:

But they did, and they did, and I just thought, like, I was in the house and me and Donna were both going out to get ready. Yeah. So Donna, like, and I think it was like a wedding or something. I mean, we were getting ready. Ready, ready, ready, ready, and dad's down the stairs, right? Doing chilling, right? Doing the things that dad's doing, whatever it is, right? Also, big shout out to the dads because you're also amazing. But dad's sitting down the stairs, mum is literally up the stairs trying to huddle her hair, find a shoe, do whatever, right, get herself ready. Mum, mum, mum. And I was like, boys, I was like, come here. I was like, what's mum doing? She's getting ready to go out. And I was like, Do you think you could give her a wee minute? Aye, aye aye, mum, mum, mum. I was like, these boys, and I ended up, I was like, right, I'll give you 20 quid if you don't say mum for an hour. And they were like, hi, all right. And they didn't they, right? Dad didn't got it. But I think it is probably the mother's role is the caregiver. And the kids are always gonna look or are very likely to look to mum for everything that they potentially need on a micro point of view, all of the wee small things. Can I get a wee drink of water, or can I go out with my friends, or can I do this, or can I do that? And it's constant. And as I said, that one time that I was in the phone, and my friend is like, she's in the cupboard, and she's like, I'm just speaking quietly now, because I'm in the cupboard, it's just so I can get a couple of minutes to myself, and I was thinking to myself, like, I'm not in the position that I have children, and I thought to myself, wow, yeah, like you know, I'm like sometimes if I'm off people do, and I need a week, I don't know that they they they would have that, and what kind of effect that that potentially puts on your stress levels or your calm levels?

SPEAKER_01:

Or you come across a lot of time like in our industry, like as mums, they know who they are as a mum, they know who they are in their career, yeah, they know their role within their relationship, yeah, but they just don't really know who they are. And it's when you lose a lot of like right, okay, what do I actually like doing? Yeah, what fills my cup? Because it's as if the pressures that are put on mums nowadays forces them just to mute that section of their life, and the expectation is that you know what, that actually doesn't matter. When you sit down with a female and you're trying to map out their workouts and create where 30 minutes time actually is, I sometimes sit and go, Wow, yeah, like you are spinning a lot of plates. I'm sure we all feel busy in life at times, right? We've probably said it. Even for me though, I'm like that, wow, where like where are we going to fit that in for them? I think we spoke this morning actually about like obviously me, I'm not in a position where I'm like, oh my god, like I want to have kids, I don't I don't really know. But even thinking about that future life for me, I'm like, right, what would need to give? Being someone who is incredibly career focused, incredibly driven on where they want to get to and what they want to get out of life. I go, oh, right, what would I need to give up to allow that to happen? Yeah. And it's where it comes into the whole it is normally the female that would start to give up certain areas to be able to come in to this role, which I can only imagine is incredibly rewarding, by the way. So there's not, it's not the negative side of it, but we talk about about wanting a lot of like equality in the roles that we do and us being able to do the same jobs that that males then do, but there's like a feeling infrastructure that isn't actually designed to allow us to do that and have a family, so it's kind of like you can have this or you can have that, but if you want both of them together, then hold on tight because you're in for a bumpy night.

SPEAKER_03:

And I think like that's potentially where modern day feminism has potentially done us dirty. Now, feminism, probably from the 1960s onwards, promised equality for women, which in the workplace is absolutely incredible to do with being able to have children that are choosing to have a family or not have a family. There was a lot more um there was a lot more choice for women, which I think is incredible. So that that was the kind of core of when feminism was created, right? I think that there was going to be like liberation from doing domestic duties and all of those types of things, and then a bit more shared responsibility when it comes to like your home life, so you and your husband or your partner sharing the responsibility, yep. And I think like that's what the kind of the crux of that whole feminism thing was, right? And I think that if we circle back to men and women and this shared responsibility within the household, the UK government, if you're lucky, give you two weeks off if you're a man when you have a baby. How is that shared responsibility? And I think that one of the things that I feel really strongly about is this turn in modern day feminism. And I think that there's been quite a sharp shift in that. And I truly believe in feminism, don't get me wrong, I do, but not when it's detrimental to the mental and emotional stability of a female. You've got these two things, right? You've got being a full-time mother, a full-time caregiver, a full-time everything to everyone, and then you're expected to excel in your professional career, yeah. And there is no middle ground.

SPEAKER_01:

It's this you can have it or you can't. Yeah, that's kind of the thing that comes across. And if you think about the responsibility that comes with being a mum and the job within that within itself, but also like we're now feminism pushes to be this oh, you can be this bad girl boss, and you can be a CEO or whatever you want it to be, and it's like you can, of course, and that's amazing. But how are you meant to do both? Because there's no support system, there's no infrastructure that allows these to actually merge together, and it's why I imagine you see a lot of females sacrifice their career, yeah. But also, I believe why you see a lot of females now having kids at later stages within life, because let's be honest, some of us are as just as career-driven, as determined as what men are. We want to achieve things within our professional life, whether it be your own business goals that you want to do, whether it be you've studied for years at university to be able to get your degree and do this job. We all want to be able to tick those boxes and fill our cup on our career, but as we say, they don't merge. So you go, right, I'll put a wee hold on actually even thinking about being in a position to start a family if you're fortunate enough. But then what then happens is we've got to remember as females, we are like our time is ticking, so to speak, biologically. So we've not only got the pressure of right, I want to fill this cup career-wise, if you even think that a family is in your goals in life to even think about if you're trying, if it's going to be able to happen for you, you then have time against you. So it's kind of like somebody's just flapped a sand timer and went crack on, see what happened. And you go, what that does for your stress levels as well, your cortisol all throughout your life, before you've even got the point that you've maybe got a kid coming into the world, I think is a lot of pressure that probably people were experiencing but not really talking about, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And I think um something that you mentioned when we were training this morning was at this point in your life, so say for like for me, I've I'm like well into my career and things like that. For you, Nature well into your career, but you're a lot younger than me. Like, from a financial standpoint now, like how challenging would it be to say, right, okay, do you know what? Like, this is it, we're gonna be bringing a child into this world. And I I do wonder if maybe that's why families are waiting till a little bit later on down the line for them to be able to do that because the financial constraints and the the support network. Like, don't get me wrong, there are so many businesses out there that will allow for flexible working. I and I think that that's amazing. Like, sometimes like you'll be able to go back and do three days a week, or you'll be able to condense your hours or the those types of things. So I think that that's great from a company point of view, yeah, from the UK government. Oh my god, they could do so so so much better because see for someone that is in full-time employment or owns their own business, right? And they then, after say, six weeks of 80% pay, have to go down to 180-ish quid per week on their mat leave for 39 weeks. How how like does that even like cover the cost of nappies?

SPEAKER_01:

Like, do you know what I remember hearing this that the first time when I was chatting to my friend Jen, who just recently had like our MW boy Freddie, and when she told me what like statutory mat pay was and what that covered, she went, okay if that'll even cover formula and nappies for that month. She went, God forbid, if you want to go to like maybe I'll be mother and toddlers group to try and socialise when you're feeling quite isolated or go to like baby sensory to start the help with their development. I was like that, honestly horrified when I heard it because probably something I've always known's not been great, but until that information, I was like, How would you do that? And as you say, in the financial position, the stress that that puts on any family must be massive to the point that before even thinking about starting a family, you wouldn't need to go right. At what point are we going to be in a financial position? And I think like in this day and age, cost of living is so much higher than what it was even 10-15 years ago. If we look back, so 10-15 years ago, the potential of part-time work or the potential of taking a little bit of time out was maybe a bit higher than what it is now, but to be able to keep the roof over the head, food on the table, a a car if you need it, not even looking at holidays or the lavish things in life, most families need dual income to be able to do that. So it means that the mum does need to work, yeah. But then when that dual income then goes, when you're talking about depending on company maternity leave policy, because every company will be different, and some of you hear and you're like, Oh my god, like even here, some paternity that we've got six weeks, but you can take them however spread out that you want, a couple to start off with, and then you can take them further down the line, and that's amazing because that's the way that support networks should be. But you go, if that's not the case, how much pressure does that put on the mum, the relationship with your partner, but also the household on how are we making ends meeting?

SPEAKER_03:

Exactly. And I think like I I had looked at a couple of stats that were really, really interesting. So only 17% of mums in the UK are ready to go back to work when they go back to work. 17% and 43 wait do you hear this? 43% of mums have to return to work after just 12 weeks to financially like to make it financially able for them to live. 43%.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, see the strain that this must put on their mental health to start off with. Now, say like that mum's been even suffering any slight amount of pace uh postnatal depression, right? And she's then having to detach herself from this amazing human that she is grown for the last nine months, getting ready to nurture into this world, and straight away it's like, right, she needs to go. Yeah, the pressure that must put even on a mum that's potentially breastfeeding, yeah, right? Having to like sort out schedules, knowing when she's going to express, making sure there's enough food for the baby, but she's expected to spend this plate of her career as well.

SPEAKER_03:

And it's wild, it really, really is. I think one of the things that you'd mentioned there about like mums and breastfeeding, like see mums and babies when they like when the baby's first born, you've got co-regulation, right? And what that does to the nervous system is it completely calms the nervous system, it releases oxytocin, the love hormone, the bond hormone, and it's so so important that mums and babies have got that connection from the beginning. And if 43% of our mums are having to go back to work purely for financial reasons, then surely we need to be looking at this in a UK-wide perspective and saying this is not good enough. UK government, this is not good enough. Like, if you think about the linkages now, there are so many different linkages to different mental health problems and emotional problems, but they're looking at see when a baby within its first two years it shouldn't be exposed to cortisol, the brain should not be exposed to cortisol, right? And when it does, there are we higher, there's higher links attached to ADHD and some challenging behavioural difficulties as well. Now it's not the only, it's not the only thing because I know that there's uh like many other things. There's many other things that of course there is, but they're looking at that as quite a high like it can cause stress in the baby the baby's brain, and that wasn't there before. And one of the things that I wanted to talk about actually was our member that I met with. Do you remember I met with Elizabeth? So Elizabeth Langan, she's absolutely amazing. She was 26 years as our nurture teacher, um, and we had such a great chat. Like, to be fair, the reason that this all came about is our first sister sisterhoods event, me and Elizabeth um were pure gabbing, and I actually didn't realise that this was her job. And I was like that to her, oh listen, I like I was thinking about this podcast, blah blah blah, and we were chatting about like connections and um children's connections to their parents, and she's like, Do you know that that's what I did? And I was like, No, actually, I didn't, so we got chatting it anyway. We met up, and um what she she spoke about was her experience from when she first started in nurture right through until now, and her experience within her life while she was bringing up her kids, and what the kind of stark like um differences are between the two of them. And one of the first things that she said to me is back when I was bringing up my children, it was very normal for the mum to be at home for the first five years of her child's life until their kids went to school. That was very normal, and as a byproduct to that, the mum got to nurture the child, was able to spend time with the child. Back then, there were things like iPads and all of that kind of stuff, but also there was a lot more in terms of your community and your village, and women supported each other very much in that kind of um environment. With the way modern-day feminism is now, it's fragmented that. So the village is broken. Yes. Women after like to say they've had their baby, after what, two weeks if they're lucky, dad's at home, mum is on her own with her baby, which is again beautiful but challenging because it's a brand new job for them to have. In the past, you were surrounded by say your your mum, she would be able to help you with the baby, or your neighbourhood or your village, and they would look after you while you were looking after the baby. And there's so many cultures all over the world that still do that, and from a developmental point of the baby and a connection point of mum, I feel like potentially that's something that we're missing out on because of this fracture that we've had, and I think there is that disconnection now.

SPEAKER_01:

There's so many things that take away from the immediate connection that you could have. You mentioned iPads, there is so much technology now that mums must now rely on to even get a bit of breathing space, and there's absolutely zero judgment when I say that. Like, I can totally get why a mum who is doing her absolute best just to get a wee bit of housework done goes, there you go, that's the solution. But there would have been a time where that maybe was like all the kids were at neighbours. Yes. If someone was helping and you you had that we ever had our valleys, yeah. Don't get me wrong, there'll be some really fortunate people out there that have amazing support networks and like family and friends that can really bring in, but not everyone has that. That's where that village is slowly starting to pull apart, and you've got the disconnection, but there's also the disconnection now of some mums are required to return to work after three months of having the baby. Yeah, that's not just disconnection from your people, that's disconnection from your baby who's needing your nurture at that point. And we spoke briefly this morning actually as well when we were training. What pressure does that put on like your wider family? Yeah. Because childcare is expensive. Oh wildly. Right. And I remember being in a fortunate position when I was younger that m my mum didn't return to work until I went to school, and that must have been really nice to have that experience and not worry about the childcare costs. But see, when you hear day-to-day what people are having to do just to cover childcare costs, having to go, am I ultimately just working to pay the nursery bill? And is that worth it, or would I rather spend the time with my child or rely on parents? And I said this morning that it's amazing if you have got parents that are fit and able to look after your kids to help. Of course, people say being a grandparent is one of the greatest things in the world, so they do. But now our we're in a world where retirement age is slowly getting higher and higher and higher. That people are having to work for a lot longer. So the flexibility of being able to be like that, do you know what? I'll of the wee one a Tuesday and a Thursday, and that'll let you go to work, won't cover childcare costs, all that. Actually, it's getting slowly stripped away because everything's just getting pulled apart, and a lot of the time by the government, they're increasing the retirement age, they're not supporting our mums that are trying to bring up families, and there's no real infrastructure for the general person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And if we think about it, like I I went deep down. I ended up, I was like, I'm becoming a bloody journalist and this. So I think like the what is it, the ministers in the House of Commons, their average UK salary is£96,000 a year and six months paid full pay maternity leave. And we are getting our women at£180-ish quid per week. Now, see if you were to redirect some of that that these ministers that are on this wild amount of money are on. See if you could redirect that. You could look at, we'll talk about this later on. See the Nordic countries. Oh my god, these guys have got this right, by the way. I bloody love them. I'm gonna live there.

SPEAKER_01:

If there is somewhere for us to learn from, oh my god. Absolutely them. Not on just this, but so many other areas of life.

SPEAKER_03:

Like, what work life balance is incredible. But yeah, so basically, for what is it? Let me get this right. The first 12 to 15 months, uh, they get 70 to 100% pay and 480 days leave, and 90 of those days are non-transferable to dad. So dad gets a full three months off, he can transfer that back to mum. Now, if we're looking at things from a real feminism point of view, they got this right. Yes. Right? They have absolutely got this right. And I think that if the UK government were able to look at what they are paying their ministers for all of their things like their second homes and all their travel and their bullshit. And if they were to redistribute some of those funds, you could create something like that in the UK. Oh, massive. Is that called to action for you guys to be looking into this? And as well, they're talking about uh July, right? So this is July, is it June or July anyway? And it's been kicked down the road to reassess it for another two years. But what were we saying?

SPEAKER_01:

Like that system hasn't changed in the last 23 years.

SPEAKER_03:

Tony Blair.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

Like seriously? That wasn't yesterday. 20% of the women, that was all there was, 20% women in Parliament at that point as well.

SPEAKER_01:

23 years ago, this was the infrastructure that was given to support both mums and dads, because that's when the whole paternity minimum leave was created as well. And you go, what has changed in 23 years? How different is the world, how different is the cost of living, how different it's a daily challenges that we all have to experience. And when we're talking about them like the Nordic countries and how what they've got all correct there, see when you look at their mental health stats in comparison to what we're dealing with in the UK, night and day. Aye, it really, really is. And you just go like no wonder people feel like they're failing when the system's failing them. The system's rigged, like it really is, the system's rigged. It's just magical. How is anyone ever meant to be able to feel like they are thriving and they are bossing life when that's what they've gotten?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and it's it's match. It's completely unfair. And I think that I think if if we could really take a step back from a like UK-wide and actually look at what we could do for the people that live here, our mothers, our fathers, our children. And I think I wanted to kind of circle back a wee bit on something that you actually actually talked about there because I would like to talk about what Elizabeth spoke to us about. But I would like to kind of circle back a wee bit when you had mentioned the iPads. Yeah. Generationally, right, my age wouldn't have had an iPad, right? So I'm 38. Would you have had something like that as a kid? No. Right, so you're what 20? 27. Right, so you're 27 now. The children that grew up with iPads are now the parents. So that isn't that that that's just what you did. That's normal. And I think like we're going to talk about this in another podcast that we're doing about protecting the next generation. Um, and we'll talk about this on a huge level, is we don't the pa our parents now don't know any different because that's what they had. And from a connection point of view, I think it's wildly important that we discuss connection for mothers for groups, and and how if we don't connect we're we're going. Stay disconnected in this this pattern of feeling isolated, nothing's going to be able to change.

SPEAKER_01:

How do we bring that connection together as in this setting as mums who feel like they've got a tribe of women that have got their back that they can fall back on for support and it's going to be alright because over the years, as things have changed, that's slowly been stripped away time after time. There was a point where it would have been constant mother and toddler groups, places that they could have met in community centres. I seen um on um one of the co-winning pages about a White House Park toddler group like struggling to get numbers but then struggling to get numbers, but a lot of the time it'd be grandparents that are then taking baby ones to these toddler groups because mums are having to work and they're not getting to be there and be part of that development and bring themselves connection. So it's one thing to have the group and the support network there, but we've got to be able to have the ability for the mums to actually be there and it not be a child mind or a parent, a friend that's taking them. So I think that it's one thing to have the opportunity of creating connection, yeah, but it's we've got to have the solution as to how we get the mum there because see being in a room where kids can connect, they can socialise together, right? That's one thing. But see where women can connect together with their energy, they can chat through what is working for them, what is not working for them, how hard it is to be a mum, but also how good it is to be a mum from the funny stories to the sleepless nights to everything in between, they've got to have that conversation. But you can't help but feel those conversations only happen online now because it's the only opportunity the mum's getting to kind of validate the feelings of what she's then going through instead of it happening face to face.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and I think that that's probably the challenge that we do have in modern day living. We do, we definitely do. Um but no, I think it's uh I think it's so interesting because there are so many absolutely beautiful points, and I as I said to you before, I look at my my friends and I admire them hugely. I look at the members in the gym that bring their kids into the gym as their role models, like they genuinely you the more it's just love, isn't it? And I know that we're talking about the things that maybe have women have had stripped away from them, but I think it is also so vitally important that we chat about like all of the beauty that your children bring to you. It's not like this isn't a negative in any way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_01:

I just think that there's some huge shortfallings when it comes to how we're cared for, how women are carrying for the support for for mums, like the job of being a mummy mum gets the care, support, bring up our little people and be that role model for that next generation. Like I can only imagine how incredible that feels to be able to do it, but it's the detriment that happens to the mum. Yeah. And I sometimes don't think that we're dealing with that real challenge if we're being honest, it'll potentially further down the line. I mean, when we get um mums coming into the club that maybe have like teenagers, right? You get to a point where their mental health is who am I? Right? And it's one thing to have a flippant comment and be like, oh, I don't really know who I am now. I'm going through a wee bit of a change. And I'm not really talking about that. I'm talking about someone that you're sitting down with and you can look in their eyes and they are genuinely lost for 15 years of their life. They have are are longer, they've devoted everything to these little people while trying to spin the plates without the support network out with family and the infrastructure of the modern day world. And you just go, she's having to start again. She's brought all this up, but we're pretty much back to stage one for her of trying to build up who she is as a person. And you go, There's got to be a solution that helps merge that as they're bringing up those little people.

SPEAKER_03:

So, all the mums out there, we would love to know what the solution is. It would be great to hear what your feedback is on this. And I think that if we could maybe even look at what would you say now is in your expert opinion as a coach are some things that a mum could do. Say for instance our kid's six months old and she has got the luxury that she has six months left on our maternity leave. What do you think that she could do to make herself more inclusive? Where could she go? What she could what could she do?

SPEAKER_01:

I think one of the things is absolutely join a community. Yeah. Like for us, we see mums coming in with their babies and they can come in and they can train. One of the best things that I believe any new mum could do for themselves in that position would be to start to look after themselves a little bit. And for me, that starts with exercise in movement. See if they can get themselves involved in a community, and this is one of the greatest things about curves is they're able to bring the wee ones along. Yeah. And honestly, like see when I think about this, it actually warms my heart how many people we've had come in with our wee one that is maybe say six months in our Pam and our weak RC, and they've maybe been a wee bit fussy, right? They've maybe had a wee bit of a cry, like do feeding time, whatever that might be. The mum's on the circuit. One of our members has just finished and she goes, I'll sort it, don't worry. And they go over and they maybe take the wee one out and have a wee shall go or whatever needs to happen, and you go, That's what women need to support, not judgment.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Right? For where that mum can go, oh my god, like she's not judging the fact my kid's crying. She gets me. She knows that it's nearly feeding time, but it's only half an hour I had and I I had to get in, and she sat and she just went, Right, okay. I actually had one member, right? And uh the wee one was slightly older, which shout out to Leslie if you're listening, who came in for a workout and her mum was really struggling. Toddler age, wee one was maybe one and a half to not settle in the pram at all, right? And the mum was getting quite stressed, you could see, and we were trying to settle in, and Leslie went, I've not started my workout yet. Do you want me to take the wee one out there and see if I can help get her to sleep? And she took her out into the hall out of the gym and she was chilled where we pram. The wee one fell asleep, and the mum had the opportunity. And Leslie actually went, I don't have time to work out now, but I can come back later, it's alright. And she went and she came back, and you go, That is what females need. That is what females need. And that would be probably my biggest thing is, yeah, they've got to look after themselves, but they've got to do it in a community where they're supported and people will get them.

SPEAKER_03:

Aye, and that's that's where, like we said, the lack of village. Yeah. Now I think like it's having such it's having such an effect on our women's mental health, emotional health, to the baby's emotional health as well. Like we know that if a mum is stressed energetically, what that's gonna do to the baby is going that's gonna stress them, right? If a woman even has, I don't know if you've ever spoken to anybody, but like you can even go for a pee. Oh, right, you can't even go for a pee, like, are you hiding in a cupboard and a phone call, right? But if you're highly stressed, that's gonna then knock on to your baby's stress levels, and if you've got a stressed baby and a stressed mum both in the same place, what that's then gonna do is it's gonna cause a bomb. I think one of the things that always upsets me is see, if I see a mum struggling in a restaurant and somebody's tutting at her, yeah, I feel like I want to just go over and shake the person that's tutin because you can't even begin to imagine what that must feel like. Or the look the look if a mum is going on an aeroplane, everybody looking going like that baby better and not be sitting next to me. See already that mum's head is upside down, we worry, she's panicking. Is the baby gonna settle? He's gonna sleep, it's gonna screen the the place down, and then for people to look at you like that, please, women be a be a good female. If the the kids need now, we walk up in denial. Ask the mum, do you need a hand? Reassure her, look at her, it's alright, it's okay. Like, see things like that. That's being a good mum, but but that's also sorry, being a good woman. But the sisterhood, that's what we want to create with our sisterhood. We want to create echoes out into our community. We want for every woman, regardless if she has a child or she doesn't, to feel supported. So please, if you're listening to this and you are that woman that goes, or that girl that goes, Oh no, don't sit next to me or with that wine shut up, please put yourself in the shoes of the female that's already thought about all of those things. And you know what?

SPEAKER_01:

I think like as females, uh we often find it hard to ask for help. Oh shit. We're not very good for outright asking, I need help. Because modern day society is drilled into is that if we ask for help, we're failing. We need to be able to do this in our own, you've got to be able to survive. See, as a female, see if you struggle to ask for help, don't be afraid to ask someone if they need help. Yeah. Because see if someone was to ever say to you, Can I give you a hand? I guarantee that you would take them up on their offer, but you would never be the first to ask. I think that's a really powerful thing to be able to do is just ask someone how you can help, like it costs nothing. They will be so grateful of that support, but I tell you what, it will also massively fill your cup that you've been able to do something good out there.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. I think uh I loved that what you just said there, and it's something that came up recently in my life. Um it was my cousin Donna's birthday, yeah, and my mum was like, Does Donna wear earrings? And I was like, No, she doesn't, she's not got an ears pierced. And she's like, I don't know what to get her for her birthday. And I was like, Can I be honest with you, mum? I says, put a card, like get her a card and put on her that you'll look after the boys for the night so her and Sean can go out at any point that she likes. And um she was like, Really? And I was like, Yes. The offer of support to look after the kids for a night, put it out there. If you can put it out there, like it is literally the the biggest form of love is giving your time to somebody. And one of the things that I remember Donna always saying to me is, I never like to ask anybody because if they can't do it, they'll feel bad. I mean, how much of a darling is she? Like genuinely, like I don't want to ask for help in case somebody can't help me and then they feel bad about not being able to help me. And I imagine that that's potentially what a lot of people's brains are that's a lot that's the way a lot of brains potentially operate. But see the people around about you, like for me, I absolutely love seeing like my and my nieces and my nephews and all of that kind of stuff, but I'm also very aware that I don't want to impose myself, like I don't want to just drop round, go to the house because I know how busy everybody is, there's clubs, there's this, they're that. I like all the time. When I like when I think about my cousin Craig, he's got a wee girl Maya and um like at my wee niece Maya, and she's um she's at like gymnastics mad, she does loads. Craig's up so early in the morning, Jill goes to work really early in the morning, like they both they do everything. And like I was talking to Craig actually the other day, and he's like, just pop round anytime, and I'm like, I don't want to be so busy. But I think like even having those conversations, and he's like, just pop round. Like, I think it's important that we open ourselves up to be able to give help and also and receive as well.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it's a it's a two-way street. But I think what you touch on there as well is something we probably never really spoke about is the strain on relationship with bringing up a family, yeah, right? Like, again, I can only imagine how hard this is and feed this back from a point of dealing with hundreds of women every single day ultimately. But uh dad, as much as we were saying they are the macro managers, they look at the bigger picture. Fortunate enough to have two parents together, those kind of things. Often you'll find dad is the main emergen in the family, they're very career-driven, very focused on they've just got to make sure the bread and butter comes home. That's what their their role and responsibility is. And then mums then try to keep her job, keep the kids going and spinning. But what tends to happen is they're like absolute passing ships, right? Because childcare is tight, challenges come into play. Often, when mums get the kids, it gives dad the opportunity to have a little bit of time, or vice versa. The strain that must put on a relationship when you're like that, must be massive. And as we say, are people likely to phone and ask for someone to look after the kids for like a night? Probably not. And you go, it doesn't give them any time to know like who they are as a couple. One of our members actually said to me a couple of weeks ago, she was going on holiday for the first time without the kids. Our girls and I must be about like 20 and 17 or something like that, and she was like, We're gonna wait together. And I'm excited, but I don't really know if we still like each other. I was like, oh my god, what do you mean? It's just like it has been so long since we're going to have that time to just be us, and she was like, I kind of forget what it feels like. She's like, I know kind of who I am as a person, I know who I am as a mum. She was like, but we've put our life on hold for so long that I'm like, who are we? What do we enjoy doing together? I'm excited for her, whoever she is. Definitely did a good time away on holiday. That's good, I'm so glad. I'm so mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03:

But I think that's a really, really big part. Do you think this is and this is me just like putting everything together that you just said there? Do you think now, remember what we spoke about about mum's going back to work pr probably a lot earlier, and um then they are their helpers being like the gran and grand are like nana papa, all of that kind of stuff, or the kids are going to like a uh a childminder and stuff like that. That's happening during the week. Maybe back in the day, what would happen was mum would be home and they would see each other on the evenings, and at the weekends gran and grandda would look after the kids to allow a wee bit more movement, or I I just wonder like you think that how the way I've written has changed, has it again? It's fragmented that whole thing again.

SPEAKER_01:

So it was pure making me laugh. I remember being we right and I used to love going to my grand and granddays, like was so fortunate to have them both. And I remember I'd always known that when I came home from school, like on a Friday. Mum, can I go to grand and granddays this weekend? She'd be like, I cannot ask them for you to go over again. I'm no, I'm not asking them. Like they've seen you enough to do da-do, like they've helped enough, all that kind of stuff about his clubs and that during the week. And I got to a point I'd be like, Can I use a house phone and phone them then? She'd be like, um, if if you phone and ask it's different, so I you can do it. And I used to be like, my mum said that wasn't allowed because you've watched just too much, but can I still come over? My grandma would be like, oh my god, of course, they come on over. But you go, that's something that would be in a mum's head, like they've helped enough, like I kind of push the boundaries here. And you go, is that where that starts to go? But as you say, the weekends support network where was at one point probably very different to what it is, because you need that network more during the week to be able to fill the role of your career and your job, and you just I honestly cannot begin to imagine how challenging it is to spin those plates.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think like mums, like as we said, they are genuine like see when I say this, I just I like admire, yes, I admire our mums so so much. As I said, like I'm not in the position that I'm like I'm having children, and I think that for me, like I am just like you are literally like your wonder woman. I think about me trying to run my business, and then I think about my pal Clear, right? She's got two kids, her husband, and she runs her own business, and I'm like, you are boss in life, and she's like, I'm fried, and I'm just like, you are honestly owning this, like and I and like sometimes I find it hard to manage the two businesses and the podcast and all of that kind of stuff, right? I try I find that hard. Can you imagine me adding a baby and a steward into that? Like, I don't even know how that's possible to put a bit with a weight in your back and the suck. What were we actually like? Like me and that's yesterday. We were putting something together for our amazing She Creates event. Oh yes! Um which you'll all have probably booked up by now, but we were putting all of this stuff together, right? And we ended up we were in January. Like actually, and we were trying to pull things together. So can you imagine, right? We've got beavers, we've got cubs, we've got swim club, we've got football, we've got dancing, we've got gymnastics, your dad wants to play golf, I want to hide in a cupboard and speak to my pal. Like you're having a sneak.

SPEAKER_01:

You've got to feed them as well.

SPEAKER_03:

You don't need and that's a different thing as well. Imagine your kid's a fussy eater.

SPEAKER_01:

Like you're sorry, mum.

SPEAKER_03:

Do you want to tell the story about the sweeties in the cinema?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my god. I was um mum and dad, I'm very sorry. I know I was probably a problematic child. Um not probably I was, but we once went to the cinema, right? And it was like pure treat. Do you remember when you just got to do things that were a pure treat as a kid? Yes. I wish you could have that feeling back as an adult, it's just not quite the same. Um anyway, so it was this treat where we're going to the cinema and we get told that pack your own pack and mix. So me and my older brother like were like, oh my god, best thing I've ever sat down in the cinema and my pack and mix back. And I'm that I used to be that fussy, I'm I'm a lot better now than what I used to be. And I had this rule that before I would eat anything, I had to smell it first. So I'd like to take a sweetie out and I'd be like, and if it passed the smell test, I would then like do the texture test, right? So I'd like run it along my lip, and if it passed that, I would like then taste it to see if it passed that one. But I mean, see if it failed the snuff test, I'd like that, don't like it, mum. And mum would be like that, obviously. If I think about this, I had read down how much she spent in picking mixing at that point. Like, that would have been a lot of money out of like weekly finances and all that. And I'm like, I don't like it, no, don't like that one. It's just like fuck shit not, you packed them. Um but even daft stuff like that, like they they spin so many plates. They do it. And the ability to just retain the information is something I admire. Like, see when we've got members in the club, right, and it's like, like, what's your plans for the rest of the day? Bing bing bing bing bush, and what about this? And they've just like they've got the information. I phoned my mum once in Dubai to ask her where the t-shirt was and she knew where it was. Shut up. Yep. She's that's how bad I've done wrong. She's like, I um I watched it before you went home, so you won't have unpacked your suitcase, so it'll still be on the suitcase call. Absolutely love it. Never said black t-shirt, but no, honestly, see you mums, like these are frickin' amazing. I sometimes wish you could see the job that you do through someone else's eyes. I know it must feel hard, it must be incredibly heavy, it must be challenging, frustrating, and every other emotion, right? But you're bringing up little people who literally love the bones off you and you're their role model every single day. So give yourself a bloody pat in the back, because honestly, you're doing such a good job.

SPEAKER_03:

Woo! Woo! Good job, Mum. Definitely. So, as we said, be a good woman or a man if you're listening to this. If you see a woman with her child struggling, be the offer of help. Don't tou at her, please. Don't freak out if the baby sits next to you and on the aeroplane. Don't do it. Offer your support, offer your help, honestly, because sisterhood that is what it's all about. So, as we wrap up uh this episode, I just want to remind you to make sure you hit your subscribe button on everything on all our platforms and follow us on all of the platforms. But also, we wanted to show a clip that is extremely poignant in what we have tried to depict today with our episode. So we would just love to cut to this video and let you know that you are bossing it. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you. See you again.

SPEAKER_00:

How many of you moms sometimes wonder if you're a good mother? Have I even got a few here, maybe, who just really that's been a real issue for you? You know, my good mother. Okay, I'm gonna read you something. Mom and dad were watching TV when mom said, I'm tired and it's getting late, and I think I'll go to bed. She got up, went to the kitchen to make sandwiches for the next day's lunches, rinsed out the dessert bowls, took meat out of the freezer for supper, the following for supper the following evening, checked the cereal box levers, filled the sugar container, put spoons in the bowls, put bowls on the table, started the coffee pot for brewing the next morning, put some wet clothes in the drawer, put a load of clothes in the washer, ironed a shirt, sold on several loose buttons, picked up the game pieces left on the table, put the telephone book back in the drawer. She wanted the plants emptied a wastebasket, hung up a towel to dry, she yawned and stretched and headed for the bedroom. She stopped by the desk, wrote a note to the teacher, carried out some cash for a school heading, pulled out a textbook from under the chair, signed a birthday card for a friend, addressed the stamping envelope, wrote a quick list for the supermarket the next day. She went and put both of those in her purse. Mom then creamed her face, put on a moisturizer, brushed and flossed her teeth, trimmed her nails, baby, called somebody for going to bed. Mom on my way, she said. She put some water into the dog's bowl, put the cat outside, made sure the doors were locked, took looked in on each one of the children, turned on a bedside lamp, hung up a shirt, threw some dirty socks and laundry basket, and had a brief conversation with the one she was still doing homework. And run around, she set the alarm, laid up the clothing for the next day, straightened up the shoe rack, and the three things for her to do, to do with us for the next day. The no one in particular I'm going to bed, and he did. You have no idea what nobody's giving you. All those little tiny details that nobody even pays any attention to. So let me tell you, you never ever have to wonder if you're a good mother. You never have to wonder if you're a good woman. You need to start celebrating all the things that you do because you are amazing.