Writing Through December Chaos

In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton confront the reality of December's chaotic energy—where seasonal disruptions, holiday stress, and looming daycare closures threaten to derail their writing routines entirely. While Kelton grapples with her lack of structure (going without coffee until noon, navigating postpartum dairy restrictions, and awaiting news of hand-foot-and-mouth disease), Krisserin celebrates a hollow victory: typing "THE END" on her manuscript, only to feel completely disconnected from the work.

The friends trade strategies for building sustainable writing habits in the midst of life's upheaval—from Kelton's plan to reclaim her most reliable morning hour from client work to Krisserin's decision to explore short story writing and grad school applications while her novel rests. They debate the ethics of platform-building on TikTok, where algorithmic luck matters more than generous engagement, and wrestle with the pressure to create "uniquely differentiating" content when billions of people are doing the same thing. Through Emily Halnon's wisdom about training like an athlete and the reminder that 30 minutes of writing beats zero minutes every time, Krisserin and Kelton offer a refreshing antidote to December chaos: sometimes the goal is just to show up, even when showing up feels like the hardest thing in the world.

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Transcript

Kelton 0:00

Hi, Krisserin

Krisserin 0:02

Hi, Kelton.

Kelton 0:05

It's December.

Krisserin 0:07

It is December. Doesn't feel real. I guess it's your birthday month. So for you, you're, you've been like

Kelton 0:17

Yeah. I mean it's, yeah, but in what way does it not feel real to you? I'm curious.

Krisserin 0:24

Hmm. I feel like I just slowly bled into the month Thanksgiving. Everything in life feels a little anti climactic for me right now. I don't know about you, but. It really does feel very odd, this unmarked passage of time. It just keeps going,

Kelton 0:49

It does.

Krisserin 0:50

of we feel about it. But yeah, until you said it, I'm like, I know it's December 4th. I know it's December 4th because the Secret lives of Mormon Wives reunion is tonight so.

1:04

I'm Krisserin Canary. And I'm Kelton Wright. Follow our quest to publish our first novels from first drafts, to query letters through inevitable rejections and hopefully eventual success from California to Colorado. This is pen pals.

Kelton 1:18

I mean, I know it's December 4th because it is three degrees outside. Um, we've had our second real snowstorm. We've had the fire going all night. You know, for me it like, it really feels like December. And it's also one of my favorite months of the year. So I really, I get like amped for it.

Krisserin 1:39

You should. It's your birthday

Kelton 1:40

well that, that's not why

Krisserin 1:42

oh, oh, because you like Christmas.

Kelton 1:46

Christmas. I love winter. I love resolutions. I love planning for the turn of the year. All of these things are very in line with my like Capricorn identity. And as much as I hate my birthday, I love everything else about this month.

Krisserin 2:06

Fair enough. Yeah, I was, watching the reports of snow coming in for Colorado and thinking about you and how much you must be enjoying it, and the photos that you've been sharing on Instagram, just look, they look magical.

Kelton 2:21

It is, it's been a magical start to the season. A late one, but a magical one. I mean by the time this comes out, my latest newsletter will be published and it's a little about some of that winter magic. So you can, you can see in my writing that I'm like in my element.

Krisserin 2:35

Has your character from your novel been following you around a little bit more now that the season has changed?

Kelton 2:42

Yeah. Yeah. And I have been like down girl, like, let me finish the memoir. I should talk a little about my goals from last week. I, my goal is to make major headway on the outline of the memoir, and I ran. This is, you're gonna laugh at me. Many moons ago on this podcast, we talked about how I didn't want to do any research and I have found myself in a bit of a research pickle because as I further outline elements of this book, I keep being like, and in this chapter I'm gonna talk about how labor markets affect where people migrate and live. And I'm like, no, don't write about that. We're get away from that. Step away, stick to the essays. But I am trying to follow the call, and where it leads me. So I didn't make as much, progress on the memoir in the way that I had hoped this past week or two. But I did make progress, and I did, I did do a lot. Of like creative and personal work the past two weeks.'cause I, I really just, after we talked about the doldrums, I just settled into a serious funk. And I had to do a lot of unf funking. So you get, when you have like a house problem you're working on and you're like, I don't really know how to fix this, so I'm just gonna try a bunch of stuff. That's what I've been doing. I've been. Doing Kundalini yoga and little rituals and art, and dancing and like try, just trying to get out of it.

Krisserin 4:22

Yeah, I was gonna ask you how the holiday went because you had family in

Kelton 4:27

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 4:28

right? And, I wanted to know if that helped you along with your goals at all, but it sounds like so much.

Kelton 4:34

It, I mean, it helped on other goals. You know, the reality is that, like, besides writing, there's also many, many other things happening in life and, some of them have to do just with our house. It's a cabin. There's a lot of work we still need to do to make it. Weather tight, which is why if you're watching on YouTube, you can see I'm, I'm wearing hand warmers. It's so cold in here. I can see my body restricting into a tight coil. I'm so cold. So there were other things we had to get done, like chopping wood and loading wood and all that kind of good stuff. But I did get stuff done and I am in a fever pitch today to get things done because last night I got an email from daycare that hand, foot and mouth disease is popping up.

Krisserin 5:25

It's always fucking something.

Kelton 5:27

I know.

Krisserin 5:28

something.

Kelton 5:29

were like, if a critical mass of children get it, we will close the daycare. They were like, we'll close for a few weeks and a few weeks means. They'll run into Christmas, which means we just won't have childcare in December, which none of this has happened yet, but I getting the worst part of parenting for me by far is getting emails from daycare warning me about an upcoming disease. I'm like, please spare me.

Krisserin 5:59

Who sent their kid to school with this? Which one of you assholes didn't keep your kid home? Come on, man.

Kelton 6:08

I know because especially with hand, foot and mouth disease, if you're not familiar, the first sign is fever. It's like you should know if your kid has a fever. It's so easy to tell if your kid has a fever. But you know, there's also parents who are like, I've got a big presentation. Let's fucking hope this doesn't mean anything.

Krisserin 6:27

I always wondered about that because the Libra in me wants to say they probably didn't know, like, you know, but I do. I don't know if people, do people do that? Do people like they don't care. They're like, well, it, it's fine. They'll be fine. They're just gonna, kids are resilient. They can get sick, they'll be

Kelton 6:48

I mean, there's definitely people who think that, and also, you know, there are times when a kid has a fever and it doesn't mean anything. Like they just, the next day they're just better. Or they have like a teething fever.

Krisserin 6:58

They're like teething or

Kelton 6:59

Yeah, and I can see if you're, like, if you have something critical going on where you're like, well, I have to go to my mom's surgery today and I have to drop this kid off at daycare. I hope it's not one of the gnarly things. I can see how people get into that position. But I can also see how an email from daycare about hand, foot and mouth could trigger all of my years of health anxiety and dismantle all of the therapy I've had around it. So that's where I am.

Krisserin 7:27

Oh man. Well, sorry to hear that it, you know, that sucks. And also it's so tough when your kid is sick. At this age, because there's so little you can do for

Kelton 7:40

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 7:41

Besides just treat their symptoms and hold them close and try and make them feel better. I almost don't wanna tell you how my goals

Kelton 7:49

Listen, please inspire me. Tell me it gets better.

Krisserin 7:54

Well, well, it does get better. I will say. You know, my goal, I was pulling up our document. Our goal was for me to get to the end of the book, and I did do that, but it was very, it was unsatisfying.

Kelton 8:11

Hmm.

Krisserin 8:11

It was not. I have, this is the fourth book that I've actually written all the way to the end, and for the first three, when I got to the end, there was this huge feeling of accomplishment and excitement that came with typing the end at the end of the manuscript. And I, I don't know if it's because I actually wrote the last chapter ahead of a couple of other chapters, so when I was writing through the last chapter to get to the end. I wasn't really writing, I was kind of like reading. Then I was like, yeah, okay. This is it, you know? I also just know that there's so much work still to be done on this novel. It is a mess right now. I don't, it's not exciting to me. It's not inspiring to me. And so I have in the last, I think I finished it the Wednesday before Thanksgiving or the Tuesday before Thanksgiving,

Kelton 9:08

Wow.

Krisserin 9:09

and I have not looked at it since. And I, I think that's because I need some space from it.

Kelton 9:17

Yeah.

Krisserin 9:17

I'm meant to be having meetings with my agent this month and getting ready for submission next month, and we're gonna go through the first 50 pages or 65, whatever I'm submitting to publishers. But I do think that I need some space from the book before I can dive back into it with new perspective. So I, this week. Have not woken up to write. Once I woke up at 5:40 this morning'cause I had a dream and my eyes were like B and I couldn't go back to bed. But, so I worked, I've been working on a short story, two short stories. I have these ideas like kicking around. I would love to get this one short story that's almost done a place where I could submit it for stuff. I would let you know, love to see a short story published somewhere. Yeah. Um. But yeah, so I, I, I met my goal, but I'm kind of like, eh, about it, you know?

Kelton 10:13

Well, I do know.

Krisserin 10:18

I think it is just a reminder I've been, because I've been on TikTok quite a bit more than I, I should be, that once you reach, let's say we publish our books. And they like go out into the world and we get to talk about them and all this. And the other thing, it's, really probably not gonna, like substantively change our lives. We're still gonna be us. We're still gonna have to go on and, and take care of our kids and drive'em to school and do the next thing. And so, I have to remember that actually the getting up of it, the work that's involved in writing and the discipline and all of that is in itself a gift, I think and it's not always gonna be these like big wow moments that those are few and far between. But yeah, anyway, that's my very uninspired goal met.

Kelton 11:12

I am looking for those little sparkling moments, to kind of power through. I had one of'em this morning. I had 30 minutes to write before this podcast, and I actually finished the piece I was talking about for this weekend. Normally, I write. The newsletter piece on Saturdays. But it's a Thursday morning. I had it in my brain. I knew how I wanted it to go, and I sat down and churned it out and I was like, woo, essay done. Which means on Saturday I can work, exclusively on the memoir or the novel or the class or whatever else I'm secretly working on. We should tell our listeners, we had an interview scheduled for today that we had to move last minute. So Krisserin and I are just here being accountability buddies. We didn't have a planned topic other than to like look down the barrel of December and be like, here she comes. Here she comes I this month I will tell you something that. Has been coming up again and again for me in both therapy and in like scheduling for our household and in tarot and in astrology that something is not working with my daily habits and routines. Because this has come frothing to the surface across all of my like. Neuroscience through Woo spectrum. I'm like, okay, well maybe I should take a look at it. And I will tell you, I do not have any shape of a routine right now. Ben's schedule has been really unpredictable with his finished carpentry and his work that he's doing. And, Ben is also the town clerk and there's been a lot of town business and, my schedule has also been like really just. Up in the air. Things have been changing left and right. People have been visiting, things have been getting canceled, and I just feel like I wake up and I'm like, what is today? What am I doing today? I don't have a set time. I have breakfast. Oftentimes I'll get to like noon and find, I have not even touched my first coffee. And so I'm looking at the shape of my days being like, when. When can I settle into a routine where I can map things out again because I know that that is how I thrive. I have a few things mapped out for sheer magic and brain health. I have like a silent hour on the calendar. I have like, oh, you should do kundalini this day. Oh, you're going to a feng shui workshop. Then you're going to a wreath making workshop. Those things are on there, but day to day management. Is non-existent. And I do think that now I'm at a point with the memoir, especially where I know exactly what has to get done. It's just like sit and churn. And so I have to start scheduling it out. Um, but I, I'm, I'm coming to you for advice wise friend. I don't really have control over the schedule changing yet, so I don't really know how to set. Routine, like Woods is waking up at a different time every day because of his nighttime troubles. Like things are changing so rapidly. Obviously any routine I set in motion now could change if he gets sick or daycare closes. But I am, I'm just, I am. To quote one of the worst pop stars of our time, Katy Perry, I am feeling like a plastic bag in the wind.

Krisserin 14:53

Understandably so. And I also think that December of the month, and that's probably why I feel always really weird in December, it is prime for disruption

Kelton 15:03

Yeah.

Krisserin 15:03

to schedule because aren't in school. There's holidays, there's, for me, even in the family, there's birthdays. People get sick because of the weather. And so it's very easy to get disrupted in December. And I can tell you that over the last week, because of. The kids were out of school for Thanksgiving week or fall break. Even kind of like getting back into, they went back to school on Monday. Not getting up at five has been detrimental to my writing. Like I just, I cannot get writing done and at any other part of the day, my schedule is Bible for me. If I don't follow it, I just, I know I'm not gonna be productive. But I will say on the opposite end of that spectrum, by 5:00 AM waking up to write is very in terms of output of work. But I, I feel like I need more space in my day to be creative, and because I haven't been waking up at five and I've kind of been floating in my day a little bit more, my brain has had a little bit more time to be creative. In a way that I've missed, and that's why had a new short story idea come into my head. And I was working, I worked on a substack essay based on TikTok drama, but it made me think about my family in a way. And overall, I've been kind of rethinking the same way that you are. And I don't know if this is December magic, but rethinking, how I'm going about things and how I'm approaching my work and my creative life, and. This TikTok stuff that I'm trying to do on the Substack essays that I'm trying to write. And think that when it comes to routine and, and where you need to be, which is kind of like the 5:00 AM wake up and write type of, discipline you. Really need to think about what's convenient because if it's not convenient, it's for you especially, it's almost impossible. So what is the easiest way you to find the time and space to write?

Kelton 17:15

I think the, what we're up against here is that, uh, I know what that time is and I fill that time with clients. My clients are not, my two core clients that I'm working with right now are not terribly urgent clients, but they do like to know when things are happening and they do like to have them relatively efficiently. It's like I usually have two days to turn something around. So, you know, like the first thing I did this morning was I opened, for one of those clients. I have a PC laptop. Oh, nightmare. And I open up that laptop first thing to check for messages and emails because I can't get those messages or emails on my phone. It's only through that one laptop. And so I go to that laptop, I double check, I open my personal laptop and I check Slack and email for the other client. And that's like, and I do a little like mis management, you know, and that's like 45 minutes of my day. And I've used that most reliable hour for them. And I do want to give them a less reliable hour, but, but it's hard, you know, it's like I do

Krisserin 18:29

know.

Kelton 18:30

like everybody in the job market. I just feel very unstable. Uh, and, and that is, it's hard to balance that. But I do think that there could be like a, I have, I have that hour three times. A week, and I could apply at least one of those to just like you use it for writing first and client waits. So

Krisserin 18:54

don't you do a half an hour for you first and then the second half an hour for the

Kelton 18:59

yeah.

Krisserin 19:00

you know, even just a little bit every day adds up.

Kelton 19:04

That's a, that's always been a really challenging thing for me that little bit a day. Um, we talked about that in season one of pen pals where it was like, just do a hundred words and my brain is like, what 100 words of what? And I, I do think that could be like a really nice challenge for myself. That I might save for January because ire, I really like a, a resolution challenge. I might save a hundred words a day for then and allow myself more, but just be like, this is a new rigor practice. And I, I think that could be fun.

Krisserin 19:44

had minutes this morning and I wrote 650

Kelton 19:47

Well, okay. Not everybody can be Krisserin Canary. Okay.

Krisserin 19:52

No, I'm saying that like you'd be, you'd be surprised in how much you can get done in 30 minutes.

Kelton 19:57

Yeah.

Krisserin 19:58

I, yeah, I, I go back to what Emily Hellman said about training.

Kelton 20:03

Yeah,

Krisserin 20:03

If you only had 30 minutes to run, are you not gonna go for a run because you can't run your full like, you know, 5K that you were hoping to do, or five miles that you were hoping to

Kelton 20:14

it does.

Krisserin 20:15

workout.

Kelton 20:16

It really helps when I translate it into. Sport. Because in that way, you know, like I haven't been doing any physical activity for the last like two months or so, which is really counter to like,

Krisserin 20:29

did. Kundalini yoga.

Kelton 20:31

that's not physical. That's literally just breathing.

Krisserin 20:35

but you're moving your, you were kicking your ass with your feet. I read your

Kelton 20:39

But you're, you're, you're like, you're playing on the floor. I'm talking about I'm not hiking, I'm not skiing, I'm not running, I'm not, no.

Krisserin 20:48

for

Kelton 20:49

No, no, I'm telling you, I'm not doing anything physical. And the part of that is because the child has just decided he hates being in the carrier. So we go for a quote unquote walk, which is literally just like we walk past four houses and then we walk back past those four houses and we go with a glacial speed. I sleep faster than these walks. We have it. He doesn't want, he doesn't wanna be in the sled. He wants to explore. You know, I birthed my child. Yeah. And uh, anyway, all to say, I know in my heart of hearts I'm going to get back into sport. Somewhat soon, especially as the snowpack deepens and I will be outta shape when I start. And I've, I've been there and I've been to that place many, many times, and I know how long it takes to get back into shape and to get back into like, it's fun and you feel good and you feel strong. And I'm acquainted well with that journey. And I rarely apply it to writing. Like with writing, I'm like, why don't I have a hundred easy words? You know, and I'm like, because you haven't been doing that kind of workout, like once you do that workout, it will get easier, but you have to, to do it. And so the more I can apply that thinking to like dumbbells, the easier it will, it will be for me to actually do it.

Krisserin 22:14

As a literal aside, there is an app that you can download called Seven Minute Workouts, and it's a literally a seven minute circuit that does weight training. That's really great if you're looking to like, squeeze a tiny little bit of movement into your

Kelton 22:27

Is it free? Oh, wow. People should,

Krisserin 22:31

by like Johnson and Johnson. It's like one of those, we need to do something good for the world.

Kelton 22:35

oh,

Krisserin 22:35

make an app

Kelton 22:36

Cool.

Krisserin 22:37

everything,

Kelton 22:37

Yeah, love, love having apps, love having another app. That is a great idea. I will try that. And maybe I can, in my free half an hour, I'll do seven minutes of a workout and then I'll write a hundred words

Krisserin 22:48

in the, in the remaining 23.

Kelton 22:50

in the remaining 23 because I'm a power writer. It is funny because obviously we talk about this a lot too. Every week I write two essays. But they are, they are starting to feel in the way they're in the way of what I'm doing. So I am. And I'm also like, I'm God doing the class. I'm, I'm writing out the winter class right now early bird pricing, find it, in the next couple weeks on Shangri Logs, and then it launches for everybody January 10th. Classes are held every Wednesday in February. But that, that's a ton of work. It's a ton of work and it's very creative and balancing. This is why I wanted a routine because balancing all these different projects and like the days things have to happen is, is overloading my poor postpartum brain. I'm not getting enough food. I'm not getting nearly enough food because did I tell you I had to cut out dairy for. We're experimenting because of all his, like, gastrointestinal issues with cutting out all dairy for me and for him. And so now, because I'm still breastfeeding, I'm like hungry all the time and I have no idea what to eat. So I'm eating just like pieces of bread with peanut butter. I'm like, I don't know what I, I, I'm a dairy hound. I don't know how to eat without dairy. So, you know, I'm hungry. I'm not sleeping. I, I have too much work. I need a schedule.

Krisserin 24:20

right? You know what I'm gonna say?

Kelton 24:21

Listen. I honestly don't this time,

Krisserin 24:24

Stop breastfeeding

Kelton 24:26

girl,

Krisserin 24:27

He's over a year old. He doesn't need it anymore.

Kelton 24:30

not true. That's the American capitalist in you. The WHO recommends breastfeeding for two years and it's been shown to reduce all kinds of odds of cancer.

Krisserin 24:42

My, my, so Ren at 11 months was like, I'm done.

Kelton 24:46

Good for her.

Krisserin 24:47

okay. Sabine at 12 months was like, I'm done. And I was like, okay. Um, but I had to do it for Sabine. I, uh, for a whole year. I didn't get to have,'cause she had a whey protein allergy,

Kelton 25:01

It's hard.

Krisserin 25:02

did not have dairy for a year and it was very, very hard. I had to have a vegan birthday cake and I was like, this is the fucking worst.

Kelton 25:09

I left a birthday party last night before the cake came out because I was like, well, we can't be here. Woods. Woods is gonna want some, we gotta go.

Krisserin 25:19

we gotta go.

Kelton 25:20

Uh, listen, the boy weaning him is gonna be a nightmare. And so I'm trying to time that with my own sanity and also like, while he's having all these health problems, the only way to get him back to sleep is the tit. And so the only way to get me back to sleep is by giving him the tit. So I'm making a lot of tricky compromises here. I wanna wean, I don't wanna breastfeed anymore. But

Krisserin 25:47

I'm, I don't mean to give you a hard time about it, and it's like everybody's cases are different. I think boys are very

Kelton 25:52

yeah.

Krisserin 25:53

than girls when it comes to that thing. It's just. I know that I didn't feel like completely again until I had bodily autonomy, until I was like done breastfeeding, done pumping

Kelton 26:06

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 26:06

and worrying about all of that because it, I know exactly what you're going through With the dairy, it was so hard.'cause I am like you, like I have a lot of dairy every day of half and half in my coffee and cheese and butter and all of those lovely things. So I guess, sorry, I didn't mean to list out all the things together and Bri

Kelton 26:29

Gosh,

Krisserin 26:30

No, I'm kidding.

Kelton 26:31

listen, I have oat milk creamer in my coffee right now. I have oat milk creamer in my decaf coffee. I'm living on the edge over here. Good. But whatever. I'm tired. I'm, I'm having, I feel, I feel bad for our listeners because, well, I don't, that's not the right phrasing. I don't feel bad for our listeners. I feel. I feel like if you were listening to this podcast, you are expecting both of us to produce things and you are producing and I feel like I am not producing and

Krisserin 27:08

We just talked about how productive you are. What are you?

Kelton 27:10

Yeah, I just want the listeners to know that Krisserin just like grabbed her milk cannons. I am producing a lot of milk. Okay. We, the factory is running. It's just not writing a book.

Krisserin 27:26

You are writing two essays a week, you know?

Kelton 27:29

I should just spray it out in breast milk.

Krisserin 27:36

Oh man, I, I mean, I don't think that our listeners are tuning in to hear us talk about how far we've gotten in our projects and like how productive, I think it's the ups and downs, the meeting our goals and not meeting our goals and how we navigate that. That is bringing listeners that the few of you that are coming back every week to listen to us. Yap. But just to kind of close out your, your question about routine, I do think that is the, like whatever is the most convenient and easiest time for you to fit in is the time that you're gonna have to use to get your projects done.

Kelton 28:14

Yeah, I just gotta put it on the calendar. I gotta stop making the bed. You know?

Krisserin 28:22

Yeah. Who gives a fuck? Do it later.

Kelton 28:24

Don't do it at all. You're getting back in it. Shut the door.

Krisserin 28:28

I, I kind of like getting into a, made like a, um, a freshly made bed, but you can make it right before you go to bed. I do that sometimes. Yeah, I, so one thing that I wanted to talk about that I've felt a shift in, and actually your newsletters where you're doing the tarot polls have gotten my brain thinking.'cause it's interesting how you're looking at the obstacles and your limiting beliefs and how you're navigating those things and, I obviously, if you've been listening to the podcast for the last couple of weeks, have been recording myself writing in the morning and posting tiktoks about it. a substack. I'll have another, essay going live on Saturday, but I find myself increasingly getting fed content that is like the content that I'm making and I'm like, it, this is not differentiating myself at all, and I just don't think that people give a fuck about me getting up at five o'clock in the morning and writing, which is fair enough. You know, I barely, I barely care to talk about it, but I, I feel like the whole point of doing it is to build a platform and to get people to follow me. And I have to do that in a way that's uniquely me because people wanna follow, would wanna follow me as a creator and hear what I have to say in my unique perspective on things. And I just don't feel like with the way that I've been showing up, even though it is convenient. We talked about that. It is something that I can do easily every day while I'm already doing something. I just don't think it's like getting me where I need to be. And so I you know, I feel like you have a very, like, you found your niche with your blog and with the content that you, even, the content that you post on TikTok is very uniquely you, and I just don't, I'm like, tell me Kelton.

Kelton 30:23

Listen, I, I have to disagree because I experienced the exact same thing as you. As soon as I started posting things on TikTok that I was like, I like this. This feels like me. I started getting videos of girls talking about tarot, about about witchcraft, you know, like living in the mountains. And I just think that we have access to billions of people and the reality is we are not that unique. To create something that is like wildly uniquely you, one of a kind format, creative genius that hooks people and builds your platform immediately. That's so insane to make that our goal. And I, I do like your videos and I don't see any of them. I don't see that, I don't see that kind of content except from you and I I get other people are doing it, but like, I think it's working for you to get your word count up. That's what you said. You like, liked doing it. They're easy to make. You are also, you're. One thing I love about your tiktoks is they're like, they're not aesthetic. You're like, I am in my fucking garage in the dark, you know, churning out before my children wake up.

Krisserin 31:42

ratty robe,

Kelton 31:43

And like, the more I, I've been reading a lot of takes on social media lately, like in the media about social media that the over. Produced version is, is dying again because AI can do that. AI can do anything but like for you to like look like shit. Like most people are not making AI that looks like, you know, like us at, in our morning garb being like, I'm coming to my computer, an old crone ready to tell her stories. Uh, so I,

Krisserin 32:15

Thank

Kelton 32:15

think.

Krisserin 32:15

Accurate, accurate depiction of my.

Kelton 32:18

I just think that it's like we,'cause I've been thinking a lot about, I'm planning on launching my new Instagram on December 15th, and I am, I am so prepared to be humiliated and embarrassed by like. Having 78 followers, you know, but I want those 78 followers to be like really engaged with what I'm doing. Like I, my account is so dead in the water. The last thing I posted got 12 likes and I have 48,000 followers. And like, that's just like, I know those are bots, you know, I know that my account's canned, but like when I start a new one, it's not like it's gonna be great, you know? And I feel like building these platforms. It 20 25, 20 26, we're fucking late. You know? And like there's no. There's no getting around that and it's just, you gotta get someone who is interested in your story and there might be something about what you're making that even though to you it looks like what someone else is making, it's like it's still, it's still you. It still has this like Krisserin energy about it and you know, obviously everybody's like, you should have fun making it. It should be kind of like delightful. I was listening to. Anne Helen Peterson's culture study podcast the other day and she had, a woman on talking about running a creative business and that woman used to do all these, like behind the scene, looks on like how she makes her art. And then she was like, I just stopped doing it'cause no one was paying me for that. And I think that that's the reality is like building a platform you're not getting paid for. So it's gotta be a good time. It's gotta be like interesting to you. It's gotta drive questions you want to answer. And so like spending all this time being like, what's my magical hook like the other day, I like have to tell you what a stupid thought this is. I had an idea for a, like a repeating type of content that would require taking photos of myself in the mirror and all the mirrors in my house are in dark rooms, and they all have wildly cluttered backgrounds, and I don't have one of those like mirrors in my house where the lighting is good and the background is clean. like, I'm kind of like stunned that everybody does, and I'm starting to believe that people are putting mirrors in places in their houses where they are not functionally great for the house, but just great for taking those photos. And I'm like, I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna do that. You know? And I'm like, I don't wanna shape my life around that kind of content. And so it's like once we start being like, what is my magical hook? You know, it's like the magical hook should be the art and the platform should be fun.

Krisserin 35:08

To be more specific. First of all, I see so much content that's like, here's my day in my life and how many words I wrote, and it's like their whole day plotted out and it's, it's a little bit, it's a lot more aesthetic than what I'm doing, which is just like, watch me get up in the morning and, and write. But what I, what I think that I, I am not doing that. I could be doing it better. Job of is actually talking about the things that I'm writing about. You know, like the themes that are important to me and the stories that are important to me and the types of characters that are interesting to me.'Cause I don't do that, I don't really talk about writing at all. And in fact, I got a subscriber to my Substack that was like, I've been a really long time listener and I'm really excited to read your writing. Because it's just like you said, I, it is literally my crone self in the dark writing and like hoarding my, my, my words and not sharing'em with anybody.'cause uh, probably I'm insecure and other things that a therapist could probably tell me about myself. But, that is something that I'm not doing I think that probably worth exploring.

Kelton 36:24

Yeah, and it's hard to do because the first video you do that like a 99.999% chance that like no one will care.

Krisserin 36:32

Right.

Kelton 36:33

And then you're like, oh, I just actually gave you like a little bit of soul and, and you ignored it. You like, walked by my soul on the sidewalk and were like, get outta my way.

Krisserin 36:44

Yeah. It's

Kelton 36:44

up.

Krisserin 36:46

writing a

Kelton 36:47

Yeah,

Krisserin 36:48

query letter just to get a form rejection. It's kind of the same

Kelton 36:51

totally. And that it's really vulnerable. It's really hard. And I, I wonder how much. You know, like, what is it worth? It? It's tough. I will listen. I'm gonna, I'm gonna beg and plead people to follow my new Instagram.

Krisserin 37:06

you got, you kind of have to,

Kelton 37:08

You have to. You have to now. I mean, it's like, what a bummer. But platforms.

Krisserin 37:14

I will say that the Substack essay that I'm, been working on this week that I am very nervous about publishing

Kelton 37:20

Hmm.

Krisserin 37:20

this drama. I don't know if you followed the story of the creator who, made a video about side eyeing a white person in H Mart.

Kelton 37:30

No.

Krisserin 37:31

You're probably not on the side of TikTok, but, basically this creator, said that like whenever she's in H Mart and she sees a white person, she can, can't help herself. But like side eye that person be like, why are you here? And of course if you didn't watch the whole video at the end of the video, it's, you revealed that the other person is also a half Asian person, like her also side eyeing her. So they're like looking at each other like, why are you here? And then they both realize that they're both half Asian and they both look white, but they're both Asian.

Kelton 38:00

That's funny.

Krisserin 38:01

Was the whole point. It was her talking about identity and

Kelton 38:04

Yeah.

Krisserin 38:04

white, and so many people lost the plot and there were all of these people who came on that were like, I'm gonna go into an H Mart just because I can't, like I deserve to be there. Just because I'm white doesn't mean I can't go into the grocery store, which is

Kelton 38:17

Yeah, fucking white people.

Krisserin 38:19

of course, you had the other white people that are like, feel like when I go there, I'm a guest and I behave

Kelton 38:25

Oh my God.

Krisserin 38:25

I don't care. People, we've got it on both sides. Like, okay, we get it. Everyone needs to calm down. But then there was some Asian. that like got, that are very like the Korean vegan and Soogia, who are big time creators on the app who stitched her video and were like, what is wrong with you? When I see white people in the, in the Asian market, I wanna go up and ask them if they need help. And like that in itself is just, it's all just crazy. Anyway, of my favorite creators on TikTok, Youngmi Mayer. Wrote an essay about it and she read it on TikTok. I read it'cause she posted it on an Instagram. It went viral on Instagram. I also, I actually read it on her Substack'cause I subscribed to her Substack, but then she, I saw her reading it on TikTok and she was like crying as she was reading and it's a beautiful essay. She's such a great writer. I would die to have her on this podcast, she, I. I will, I'm, I'm working up the courage to do it, but I'm going to,'cause I love her. I keep commenting on all of her stuff. I'm like, you're such an amazing writer. Because she's also half white and half Korean, and she talks about identity and it's just it's incredible that I lived my, like 41 years of life and it's, so, it's really had been for most of my life, very rare to meet other mixed race people appear white, that are struggling with this dual or, you know, more than two identities. So my essay is kind of about that and seeing myself in this online discourse and I'm very nervous about publishing it. Because it's about identity and I don't think, I haven't really talked about that. So we'll see how that does, if anyone is interested in giving it a read. But I feel like that might be a better, like there are these topics that are really a little uncomfortable for me, and I'm wondering if maybe that's what I need to be leaning into.

Kelton 40:19

Maybe it's fascinating to listen to you talk about it. I love your breakdowns of TikTok drama because I don't, I don't scroll TikTok, like I open TikTok to post a TikTok and then I leave, you know, and I like, I engage for like two minutes to like, help whatever I'm posting, do something. But TikTok just doesn't, it's not for me. And so I don't get to see any of this stuff, but hearing you break it down, I find fascinating. So.

Krisserin 40:50

just, I should just break down TikTok drama on my substack,

Kelton 40:53

Listen. Listen. You want followers. That's a good way to get'em.

Krisserin 40:59

you know, I'm so generous on TikTok. I feel like my karmic like around, should be some sort of engagement. Because if I scroll across a TikTok and it's a writer, will almost always like it and comment. If I scroll across a TikTok and there are no comments and there's someone sincerely trying to communicate something, I will listen to the whole thing and write a comment. If there's someone who's got, who's funny or unique or is trying to do something, I'm gonna, I have like, I follow like. 3000 people on TikTok because I will follow anyone. You know what I mean?

Kelton 41:35

Love this energy.

Krisserin 41:37

I like why aren't more people like this? Because it's not, I don't know. I feel like Instagram people are a lot more, precious about who they follow.

Kelton 41:45

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 41:46

Like the amount of people who follow you versus how many people you follow is an important metric or was an important

Kelton 41:51

Yeah.

Krisserin 41:51

Um, but on TikTok especially, and maybe it's'cause I follow so many people, I don't see the creators that I, unless I go to my followers tab, I really don't get to see a lot of the people that I, whose content that I am interested in, unless they're posting a lot and getting a lot of engagement on their content. So I'm trying to. Be the type of person who will attract those type of people. Because I want, I get comments on my tiktoks, it's so exciting. I'm like,

Kelton 42:20

I love that.

Krisserin 42:21

my, like such a grandma, someone

Kelton 42:24

No, I mean, but it's such a nice feeling when someone comments on anything. Like, listen, if there is one thing to be generous with this holiday season is your likes and comments and shares, like so many artists and creators and whatever you wanna call'em, are like putting it all out there and getting. Nothing back. And look, listen, you can, you can read what you can see when it's genuine. Anybody who's like, here's how to make$10,000 on substack. You don't have to like that. You can skip that one. But when someone's like, I woke up at 5:00 AM before my children got up to write 3000 words on this novel that I love, just, just hit like, just be like, yes,

Krisserin 43:06

cost you anything. does not cost you anything. Um, the, I have a couple friends who like yourself, who make content on TikTok and I engage with their content. And there's like a mom at the school, that my kids go to and she's trying to build up an audience and every damn, I'm like, she must think I'm crazy. But I told her, I was like, I'm trying to help. She's like, I love it.

Kelton 43:27

Yeah.

Krisserin 43:27

honestly, if, if you have, I, I think that there are so many funny people on that app that are so creative. And if you just, it doesn't cost you anything.

Kelton 43:39

Trust the karma.

Krisserin 43:41

trust the karma. I'm trying, man. And I, I would think that like engagement on the app would

Kelton 43:47

Yeah.

Krisserin 43:48

more engaged with, but doesn't work that way.

Kelton 43:50

Well it's'cause you haven't,

Krisserin 43:52

wonder,

Kelton 43:52

haven't played the slot machine yet.

Krisserin 43:54

well, no, I think it's'cause I played the slot machine that I fucked myself because they were like, oh, oh, you're gonna, you'll pay. Maybe I'll just, we'll hold out on serving your content until you pay again.

Kelton 44:07

Rude.

Krisserin 44:09

Oh, this game, it's the worst.

Kelton 44:12

It is the worst game. It's the worst game.

Krisserin 44:16

And it's so distracting from. What we are actually trying to do. Which, which is why when I go on TikTok and I saw, see all of these people working on their books, like, man, we are a drop in a bucket. A

Kelton 44:29

Yeah.

Krisserin 44:30

ocean,

Kelton 44:31

Yeah. Well that's uplifting. Rate us five stars. Share it with your friends.

Krisserin 44:38

please.

Kelton 44:40

Please. Pennies, sir. Pennies for porridge.

Krisserin 44:44

Well, let's talk about goals for the next, the next

Kelton 44:50

Yeah. My goal is to not get hand, foot and mouth disease.

Krisserin 44:54

Hmm.

Kelton 44:54

That's my goal. Okay. Listen. Uh, and if I don't get it in the next two days, Saturday will be spent writing the memoir what do you want my goal to be?

Krisserin 45:04

I think you should try at least, what did you said three times a week?

Kelton 45:08

Yeah.

Krisserin 45:10

Starting that hour with your writing.

Kelton 45:12

Okay.

Krisserin 45:12

Even if you don't feel like you get anywhere,

Kelton 45:14

Yeah,

Krisserin 45:15

Just try it and see how it feels and if you can, if that's like a manageable

Kelton 45:19

All right. That'll be, uh, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or Monday, Wednesday, Thursday of next week. Those are when those hours happen. So one of those hours is immediately after this. So actually I'll just start then.

Krisserin 45:33

Get a whole half an hour of your day back.'cause usually we go until 10.

Kelton 45:36

Yeah. So. Oh, all right. Well, I'll, yeah, I'll use, the next half an hour to just write the memoir.

Krisserin 45:42

Amazing. I love that.

Kelton 45:44

Love that. What's your goal?

Krisserin 45:47

It's, I feel very, I feel very disconnected from my book right now.

Kelton 45:52

Hmm.

Krisserin 45:53

I don't know when I'm gonna chat with my agent, when we're gonna have that conversation. We're not going on submission until late Jan, so I'm gonna keep my distance from that book

Kelton 46:08

Okay.

Krisserin 46:08

and I. I felt okay about not waking up at five. It's really hard to get up at five when I don't have anything like to work on.

Kelton 46:18

Yeah.

Krisserin 46:19

And I have been catching up on some sleep. I've been very tired. I think it's the time of year, like I'll get, I'll really like a large amount of sleep and wake up tired and my body hurts and I don't know what's going on. Um, so I, I would like to keep working on the short story. I think that would be a good place to put my energy and efforts. also need to start my grad school application.

Kelton 46:46

Oh.

Krisserin 46:47

I keep thinking it's, I keep, it keeps like coming to me like, you know,

Kelton 46:50

Yeah,

Krisserin 46:51

you like forget it and then it kinda sparks in my head. I'm like, oh shit, I gotta, I gotta do that. So I have to write an essay that, um, and get that going and reach out to my school, my school and get my transcripts and all of that stuff.

Kelton 47:06

This is, this is a long list of goals.

Krisserin 47:09

not really, I wanna work on my short story and I want to work on my grad school application.

Kelton 47:16

Okay.

Krisserin 47:18

Yeah.

Kelton 47:18

Grad school application essay and

Krisserin 47:20

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 47:21

transcripts. I'm recording it.

Krisserin 47:25

that's just a, I gotta fill out an online form.

Kelton 47:29

What's your short story about?

Krisserin 47:30

Oh, I, you know what I've discovered Kelton. I think I'm a science fiction writer

Kelton 47:35

Hell yes. I love to hear that.

Krisserin 47:38

because my speculative fiction novel is pretty much science fiction. There's a lot of science in that. Neuroscience and, and engineering. The short story is about, you know how I always make the joke if I ever see another Krisserin and I'll have to kill them,

Kelton 47:52

Yep.

Krisserin 47:53

or if, and and I, I always, I also joked that I would never do 23 and me, because then they would clone me, and then if I saw my clone, I'd have to kill my clone. So my short story is about a woman who is in her sixties who gets to knock on the door and her clone shows up and a 15-year-old version of her shows up at her door, and she has to decide what she's gonna do.

Kelton 48:11

Oh, that's so funny. That's like you an inner child nightmare.

Krisserin 48:17

Exactly.

Kelton 48:18

Hell yes.

Krisserin 48:19

you, if you know that it has to be you or your clone, could you kill your child self? Or could you gift your life to a version of you? Give them an opportunity that you didn't have as it makes you ask a lot of really interesting questions. And I wrote it. I finished the short story and I submitted it in my Harvard class, my science fiction class, and my teacher was like, it's excellent up until the end. So I've been trying to fix the ending, which is why I feel like I could at least theoretically not make it a perfectly revised short story, but I could write, rewrite the end in a way that felt satisfactory. And I do have some ideas that I've been playing around with.

Kelton 49:03

All right, I think our goals are set. You know where to reach us at officialpenpalspod@gmail.com. Say whatever you want. Vent to us. You could even gossip to us. Secret, safe here, baby. We might write it into a character, but we're never gonna tell. Um, find us on Instagram and TikTok@penpalspod. Follow Krisserin on TikTok, follow me on Instagram, and eventually follow me somewhere else on Instagram and subscribe to both of our sub stacks to read the things we're actually writing. And anything else? Am I missing anything?

Krisserin 49:39

No. I hope everyone has a great, great week of writing

Kelton 49:43

Five stars, baby. Yeah, five stars across the board. All right. Can't wait to fail at my goals this week and come back with throat sores next time. Love you guys.

Krisserin 49:58

Alright.

Kelton 49:59

Happy writing.