When a Miracle Slides Into Your DMs: On Agents, Advances, and Anxiety

Kelton's inbox delivers a dream: an agent from a respected agency slid into her DMs after discovering her writing on Substack. The excitement is real—but so is the anxiety of navigating what comes next. Do you query other agents simultaneously? How do you know if you vibe? And what does a "good deal" actually mean on Publisher's Marketplace?

This week, Kelton and Krisserin break down the research-heavy world of finding representation—from decoding deal tiers to building agent lists through comp titles and genre searches. Krisserin shares wisdom from her own querying journey, including her stack-ranked spreadsheets, red flags to watch for, and the agent who dared to criticize her exposition after requesting only three pages.

The conversation gets real about money: advances that barely cover childcare, dental insurance regrets, and why writers need to stop treating book deals like lottery tickets and start asking themselves what their financial goals actually are. Plus: the ethics of getting rich by caring a little less, and why Krisserin's book absolutely deserves a "major" deal.

Goals for the week: Kelton's querying three agents after polishing her prologue, and Krisserin's taking a rare self-care day—spa, library, latte, and maybe some editor research if the vibes are right.

Support Minnesota:
• Women's Foundation of Minnesota: https://www.wfmn.org/funds/immigrant-rapid-response/
• Publishing for Minnesota Auction: https://www.32auctions.com/publishingforMN 

Write to us:
officialpenpalspod@gmail.com

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Transcript

0:00

I'm Krisserin Canary. And I'm Kelton Wright. Follow our quest to publish our first novels from first drafts, to query letters through inevitable rejections and hopefully eventual success from California to Colorado. This is pen pals.

Kelton 0:14

Hi Krisserin.

Krisserin 0:15

Hello, Kelton.

Kelton 0:17

Quick note to our listeners. Well, we're recording this on Thursday, January 29th. Tomorrow for us is gonna be when the Senate votes on whether or not they will. Shut down the government and include additional funding for, the Gestapo, formerly known as ice. We just wanna acknowledge what's happening,'cause it's terrifying. So we can talk books and agents for the next hour, but for the next couple minutes we just wanna talk to you about one of the places that we are donating. We are, in California and Colorado. We're far away. But these things, impact all of us and we have to participate in order to protect our democracy. The money to fund ice is coming from the trillions of dollars they have cut from healthcare for Americans.

Krisserin 1:05

Americans.

Kelton 1:06

Where can I give money that I like to give Krisserin

Krisserin 1:10

Well, there are a lot of organizations out there that are helping immigrants on the ground, whether with legal funds or helping them after

Kelton 1:18

I.

Krisserin 1:19

out of detention, because the truth is that. ICE has a mandate to arrest 3000 people a day. Whether or not they are here legally, they don't really care. And so a lot of these funds are helping people with legal representation. If they're seeking asylum or trying to recover from being, brutally detained on the street, there is an, an auction going on it will be over by the time podcast airs called Publishing for Minnesota. But they had a ton of really great organizations that they listed that they will be donating funds to. One that stuck out for us was the Women's Foundation of Minnesota. It's a coalition of philanthropic leaders rooted in communities most impacted by immigration related harm. And so includes urgent basic needs like providing food, housing, transportation, healthcare, and other essential emergent supports in response to attacks. legal services, legal defense, due process support, rights, protection, and then mobilizing and organizing. So know your rights, education, community safety planning, advocacy and coalition building. So

Kelton 2:27

So they do a lot. They,

Krisserin 2:28

they do a lot

Kelton 2:29

they do a lot and we can do a very little by just donating even$5 to them today. And their link will be in the show notes. Just a reminder that little things make a big impact when hundreds of millions of us are doing them. So stand behind the good people of Minnesota

Krisserin 2:47

I've been doom scrolling since Saturday. It's been all consuming for me. I don't know about you. I'm a daughter of an immigrant living with immigrants in my house. We live in la you don't think that this is a place where you're gonna encounter ice or border patrol, but Keith Porter Junior was murdered in Northridge, which is literally 10 minutes away from my house. And so it. It's scary. It's scary for me. It's scary for everyone else. But I think what Kelton said is true. We outnumber them. We outnumber them. And while we might not be in Minnesota or in these other places where, ice is actively on the ground, going door to door, giving your dollars is something that you can do that makes you feel like you are participating, outside of just protesting and, and calling your representatives, which you should also be doing.

Kelton 3:35

Yeah.

Krisserin 3:36

with that being said. We just didn't wanna open this episode and yap about stuff because it's been weighing heavily and it just feels so disrespectful not to acknowledge the moment that we're in because it's fucking enraging and

Kelton 3:51

Yeah.

Krisserin 3:52

and it's so hard to focus on, on art and writing and.

Kelton 3:59

I couldn't send the newsletter last week. I was like, no way. I'm not sending in this essay about my house today, get real.

Krisserin 4:07

Yeah. Well, how did your week go despite all of that?

Kelton 4:15

let's see, what were our goals from last week? Okay, so your goal was to submit your grad school application. Did you do it?

Krisserin 4:25

No, you know, I miss, I don't know why last week. was thinking we were in February, so I thought, oh, by the time I record it'll be February. Like the deadline would have passed. And actually, you know what's really funny is that Veronica Bustamonte, who is the di, I think she's the director of the program. I. If listeners will know that I interviewed her at a WP last March, I think it? was. And so she called me and she was like, hi, cran. I don't think she remembered me'cause she probably just had a list of people she was going there. She's like, just to let you know, we see your application in progress and the deadline's coming up, but if you need help with anything, I was like, oh, she called me. Uh, but the deadline I think is the 15th. I don't know. I thought it was the first, she said on the message it was the 15th, but I do have a little bit more time. I will say I did work on the essay.

Kelton 5:18

Good.

Krisserin 5:19

I feel like it's in a really Good. spot. I send it to Boyan, who is my harshest critic, critic, critic, critic, my harshest critic, else who is, uh, you know, married to or a immigrant who learned English as a second language in school will know that they're the biggest grammar. I, I don't wanna use the word Nazis, but that is basically what it is. I'm like, Joan Didion. And grammar is a, is a instrument I learned by ear, but. So I am waiting for him to read it and, give me some feedback and then I'm done. And I'm just gonna submit it even though still haven't decided what writing sample I'm gonna put in there. But gonna do it this weekend.

Kelton 6:03

Exciting.

Krisserin 6:04

long answer. Long, no.

Kelton 6:10

That's fair. I mean, I said that my goal was to finish the proposal and, um, I didn't, I didn't, um, what has actually happened is that I, uh, I made some like fundamental changes to it. Um, and so the marketing section is done, the overview is done. The author bio is done This. Like a lot of, like all the, those pits are done, chapter summaries need a little bit of work. I have to change some of the sample chapter stuff, but that should be relatively easy. I'm writing a new prologue and my existing prologue will become chapter one, and it just needs a little ing in this more pronounced direction that I'm going. Um, so, but it is, you know, it's a funny, it's the more you work on something, the more you can work on it, you know?

Krisserin 7:03

mm-hmm.

Kelton 7:04

Um, but I, I do feel close. And, um, I also said I was gonna sell the last two spots in the winter practice when this airs. The winter practice enrollment will be closed and I will be off to the races with my next class, which is great. So. I have one spot left as of now, so I'm hoping I just, you know, get that one filled, on the last day of enrollment on Sunday when the next newsletter goes out.

Krisserin 7:33

Yeah, I bet. I bet you do.

Kelton 7:35

I mean, it also like, doesn't, it doesn't matter. These numbers are made up. Like I have, I think there's 18 people in the class right now, so it's it's great. It's all gravy.

Krisserin 7:46

That's a lot of people.

Kelton 7:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Krisserin 7:49

That's amazing.

Kelton 7:50

good about it. I'm really happy about it. I, I did say I was gonna do a spring class as well, and oh boy, your girl is getting real tired. I don't,

Krisserin 8:01

Yeah.

Kelton 8:01

can obviously hear I'm quite sick again. And so looking down the barrel of springtime, I'm like, maybe there's something with a lighter touch I could do. So I'm thinking, I'm thinking about what that is.

Krisserin 8:17

That's really exciting.

Kelton 8:19

Yeah,

Krisserin 8:19

think we need to plan our retreat for next year.

Kelton 8:26

yeah, yeah. Are you guys gonna come? Listeners, listen, I want you to tell us, honestly, I'm, I need you to write to official pen pals pod at gmail right now. If you're like, I'd go to a retreat, I'm not planning, I'm not planning a retreat. If there's gonna be like two people that come.

Krisserin 8:44

think by this time next year, we'll have enough people interested that

Kelton 8:48

Well, Okay,

Krisserin 8:48

a like early, late spring retreat somewhere. That is

Kelton 8:53

great.

Krisserin 8:54

putting on my Kelton hat and manifesting.

Kelton 8:57

All right. See you guys in the New Mexico Desert. In the warm sun of cacti next spring

Krisserin 9:03

Next spring. Next spring.

Kelton 9:05

2027 when our books are coming out, you know?

Krisserin 9:08

exactly.

Kelton 9:09

Alright. I wanna talk agents.

Krisserin 9:12

yeah.

Kelton 9:13

god.

Krisserin 9:14

get a little.

Kelton 9:16

Oh yeah. I got a little

Krisserin 9:17

inbox?

Kelton 9:18

I got a little note this week, listeners. I got cold called, by a really good agent. And a great agency. She has a really good taste and she, this is the thing about agents that I, I did not understand in all my years prior until I started like really working on it and talking to writers and like being in the game. Is that even when a agent is like, I like your writing, it doesn't mean anything. You have to have one. You have to have a project. Like they're not just gonna be like, no, I'll just spin your existing essays into a bestselling book. No, that's not what happens. You have to have a project ready to pitch to them that is in the wheelhouse of things they work on. And isn't replicating something else they're working on. So when I was reading her wishlist, there is a world where my book fits in to that wishlist, but I could also see her arguing that it doesn't, and, and very soundly, she could argue that. And so she told me, she was like, I found your writing via another writer. And I, I read a few pieces and I keep coming back to it. I'm like, just wanna know if you have anything that you are, you wanna share with me. And I was like, oh, do I, do I, and I've never felt so excited that I had been putting in the work that I finally was like, oh my God, I actually do have something to show you. And the pieces that her agency would want. To see. I actually have ready, and so except when I just mentioned that I do need to do a little editing on the sample chapters. That is still true. I have to send those to her, so those need a little ing. But yeah, I told her I had the flu and then I was polishing up a proposal as we spoke and she was just like, yeah, just send it to my email. When you're ready, I'll take a look. And I just, I was beside myself, Krisserin, when I read that message.

Krisserin 11:26

I got your text, I was like, fuck yeah.

Kelton 11:29

cause I already knew who she was. Like, it wasn't like it wa it wasn't like I saw that name and was like, who is this? I saw that name and was like, what? what?

Krisserin 11:40

What? a dream.

Kelton 11:41

Yeah, so like truly a dream. I said this in my newsletter last week, but just even if it doesn't go anywhere with her, to have an agent that I really respect consider my work worth representing is that is a milestone for me and. I'm just, I'm trying to bask in that being enough and knowing I'll probably still have to go through the regular querying process to find like where it lands, but still really satisfying.

Krisserin 12:15

For me, you getting an agent is gonna happen. It's just a matter of when, because of course your work is worthy of representation. Of course, your book is gonna go out into the world and be a hit success. You're an incredible writer. So I'm not surprised that she read your substack and was like, I want, I wanna see more from this person. I am not surprised in the least bit. I will say when I went to a WP last year and I was listening to the panel on agents that my, friend Lilliam Rivera was on, there was. Another author, and I don't remember their name the panel, who had a very similar story where they had a podcast or a blog or I definitely had a podcast and an agent reached out to them and was like, do you have a book? They did not have a book, but they were like, of course I have a book.

Kelton 13:08

Yeah.

Krisserin 13:09

So

Kelton 13:10

Oh yes, definitely have a book. Hold on. Lemme go find it.

Krisserin 13:13

ab. Yes, I do.

Kelton 13:16

In my bag somewhere. One second.

Krisserin 13:17

is ready for you. But it is a very common thing, which, we talk about platform being important, having a community, being important. She found you through another writer who is a connection of yours, who highlighted you, and that is how the game can work. And I wouldn't be, I don't wanna jinx anything. I'll knock on all the wood, but I wouldn't be surprised if reads your proposal and she's like, let's do this. A manuscript wishlist is a made up thing that. Agents do that just gives people a guideline so that they know they're not barking up the wrong tree.

Kelton 13:59

Yeah,

Krisserin 13:59

came to your tree and she said, this tree looks nice and

Kelton 14:03

she did.

Krisserin 14:04

what this tree has to offer. It's not like you reached out to her. So you are her manuscript wishlist,

Kelton 14:11

That's such a good, I, you know, and I think, you know, listeners, will probably be able to read me like a book and know that I am just trying to like. pad my nervous system a little as I go through this process because it is one that is, the whole system is built on rejection. 90% of the industry is rejection, and that's how it continues to function. And so I want to be prepared for the work and not for the miracle. Though if the miracle happens, obviously I'll be on the podcast in two weeks being like, guess what guys?

Krisserin 14:45

I cry.

Kelton 14:46

And you know, one thing that has kept coming back to me that everybody says is that you and your agent have to vibe. So you know this, I think, I think this person's really cool, but we haven't talked on the phone, and I do think I. Who I am hanging out with is different than who I am in writing. In writing, especially Shangri Logs. I am. Ent, thoughtful, it's different than this. This girl is bitchy and down for a little gossip and it's just who I am in writing and who I am right now. Not talking about voice because voice is for me, very usually aligned. Like how I write is how I speak. But. What I speak about in the two different realms of in person and in writing, I feel like there's a big gap. So I wanna, I wanna make sure that, I'm working with someone who doesn't find me offputting. uh, It would be good for, for that to be true.

Krisserin 15:46

You should ask her what her star sign is. Before,

Kelton 15:51

Oh my God, that's so true. I should be like, Hey, girly.

Krisserin 15:55

before I send you my proposal,

Kelton 15:57

wanna make sure that your Chiron is aligned with my rising sign.

Krisserin 16:02

can you tell me where you were born and what time?

Kelton 16:05

Can you 12th.

Krisserin 16:12

That's really funny. Well, you know, I think that, and I know we can, we can talk a little bit about process of finding an agent in general, but a big part of it is getting an agent to read your writing and to want more. That is the whole point of querying, is to send out into the world, not only the book that I'm writing and the market for it and what it, how I see it working, but also. Your sample of writing that shows that you a good writer, you know how to hook people, and you've already passed that hurdle. She's already read your writing and said, I want more. I know you're padding your nervous system, but I think that you're in this position too, and I think we forget about this because. Oh, well, I'm kind of talking in circles. I just wanna say I see so much shit on TikTok that's like, this is the query letter that got me eight letters of representation in 24 hours. And I wanna be like, you're a liar. I hate you. Um, but you know, I ideally the, that you are also interviewing this person. You're

Kelton 17:23

Yeah.

Krisserin 17:24

make sure that this is the person you wanna work with. And so I think that hopefully. Yes. she loves your writing, loves your proposal, but hopefully you vibe with her.

Kelton 17:34

Yeah,

Krisserin 17:34

You know? That

Kelton 17:35

and I will say what I.

Krisserin 17:37

I'm mad that you describe yourself as, potentially offputting, but that's because I don't like people who talk badly about my friends.

Kelton 17:45

Well, you know, the thing is that I like being a little off-putting, I like that I say what exactly what I think and that, that some people find that abrasive, like I have always found that incredibly charming about myself and that has really weeded out people who I'm not gonna be friends with quickly. And we've talked about, as a Capricorn, I'm just like, you don't like me. Good. Get out. It is a i her list of who she's represented so far has writers that I've read that I really like who have just bang in sentences, you know? And so I'm like. That it, that alone, I'm like, pretty cool. And so I'll tell you what I did do. We talked last week about me getting a publisher's Marketplace, subscription,$30 a month. Everyone. It's expensive. But I did put her, her name and her agency in it to see what were they picking up and putting down, what were the deals they were laying out? And, um, you know what's interesting with Publisher's Marketplace? So listeners, if you're not familiar, publisher's Marketplace, when they announce you've seen the blurbs, you've seen the screenshot when everyone's like, I have news and it has a little publisher's marketplace and it's just a little piece of text where it's like title in all caps. A blurb about what it's about and is like represented by. And then it'll say stuff like, for a nice deal or for a, for a good deal. And there's these like cagey terms, but these terms actually have money brackets that they fit in. So if someone says they sold a book for a nice deal, I believe it's under 50 K. A very nice deal is 50 K to a hundred k. A good deal is a hundred K to ooh, something wild. It's a hundred K to 500 k. You know, it's like one year salary to generational wealth. Um, and then, uh, and then there's, I can't remember what the next one is, but then there's major deal, which is I think seven figures. Just reading through these, it just is like, golly, it seems like you could get a deal. You know? I.

Krisserin 19:59

I don't, I. deal for 50 K, I, that's like an entry level salary.

Kelton 20:05

Yeah, it's tough. One of the other writers I know, who's written like four books and has a wildly popular newsletter. She was joking on one of her podcasts recently that people are like, oh, you made a bunch of money on that book. And she was like. She basically implied that she made like 30 K from the book advance, even though she's famous. And so like, I think that, like, that, that's just, that is an option. And it's like one you kind of have to think about as a writer. It's like if your book does sell for 30 k.

Krisserin 20:41

Yeah.

Kelton 20:42

have the time and bandwidth to write it? I would be so disappointed if my book sold for 30 K and I would still write it. I'd be like, you know what? Fine. Fine.

Krisserin 20:52

I didn't know that, that the, those cryptic messages bent those tiers

Kelton 20:57

Yeah, they have tiers. It's so interesting to know. And also you can, you don't have to include them in the blurb of publishing. You can say things, that are even more cryptic like at auction. Preempt.

Krisserin 21:13

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 21:14

And what I saw from this agency, was a lot of ad auction and that, that to me,

Krisserin 21:21

war

Kelton 21:22

that to me spoke very highly about their, I already knew this agency was good, but seeing them have so many books, go out through auction, was spoke to their network. Um, and at auction inevitably will drive upper price.

Krisserin 21:39

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 21:41

I, I just, I didn't, a year ago, I didn't know any of this. It's so crazy.

Krisserin 21:47

it's so hard to know. How this industry works from the outside if you're not like into it or just have mentors that guide you. But I will say, so I'll talk a little bit about how when I was querying the process that I went through, because I went through a similar kind of research phase, right? I Was it Query? I used publisher, was it Query Tracker? Publisher's Marketplace. I'm trying to remember which one where you can actually like for agents by, I think it's Publisher's Marketplace. Search for Agents by the genre that you are publishing in.

Kelton 22:24

Yes.

Krisserin 22:25

you can filter by US only, which you is something you wanna do if you were in the us and open for submission. So what I did is I literally. through that list and like control tab, like control clicked on every single one and opened up a new tab in my browser and read through every single one and put'em in a spreadsheet. And then I would look on Publisher's Marketplace and see have they sold a book in the last year and they, I think there's a way to search for the size of the deal too. So that you can see how big the deals are. So

Kelton 23:01

Well

Krisserin 23:01

stack ranked these people, these,

Kelton 23:05

um, I think their search functionality might have evolved a little because now all of that's built into the first search. Like it'll say deals this year, which ones were major deals, what you can do is you can type in a one sentence blurb of what your book is about, and it'll bring up the agents it thinks are, it'll be like, these five are the best matches and these ones are okay matches. So it has like a really impressive search capability. And that's exactly what I was doing. And when I started my agent list was like, all right, memoir, nature. Books about stewardship, books about animals, who's representing these sorts of things. There was also a couple of UK agencies that I have top of my list because it seemed like it didn't matter that they weren't in the us. I've got that list of agents and you are looking at agencies like WME and CAA, and you're just like, oh. And then, but then of course, the problem for me when I started looking at those agencies under memoir is that it's all celebrities.

Krisserin 24:10

Yeah, and a lot of the agents at WME or CAA or ICM, they only take, queries through referral.

Kelton 24:22

Yeah,

Krisserin 24:23

Like, you gotta know someone to introduce you, which I did get an introduction or my old boss sent my query over to an agent at WME and then like nothing happened, but, and

Kelton 24:34

yeah,

Krisserin 24:35

of them to, to

Kelton 24:36

yeah, absolutely. Um.

Krisserin 24:39

yeah. Then you know, you go to. The agency's website and research the agency itself and see the types of books they represent. You get to see the cover art of the books that they've published. And then if some agents have their own little website that has their manuscript wishlist on it, which is nice. And, do they have a social media presence? What are they talking about? It's a lot of time spent writing.

Kelton 25:07

Totally. And then once you start looking at, or you say you find 15 agents that you're like, I wanna query these people. You don't just get to send them your query letter. Your sample chapters, you know, it's like, it doesn't work like that. Everybody has a different list of what they want you to send and a different list of specifications of how they want you to send it. PDF doc in the body of the email. Some of them, they're like, we want you to submit it directly through these boxes on the website. We're not even gonna tell you your emails. Just tell us which agent you wanna direct it to.

Krisserin 25:44

Yeah, there's a lot of like just filling out query tracker fields, forms, which is a good and bad thing because once you fill out a form, a lot of it is auto-filled because you're doing the same thing over and over again. I will say red flag for me, if anyone's asking for less than. pages. I don't think it's worth querying that agent. I just don't think that it's enough to know whether or not, I guess, don't know. I don't think it's enough to know whether or not you wanna actually work with that writer. I had last year or two years ago, I don't remember. It was so long ago. I had an agent who I thought would be a good fit. Ask for three pages. And then she had the audacity to write back and said There was too much exposition. I was like, I hate you.

Kelton 26:32

That's rough.

Krisserin 26:33

who got canceled because I

Kelton 26:35

Oh yeah, I do remember this.

Krisserin 26:38

I got this query and I would love a book that's like this, but different and everyone just excoriated her online. Yeah. But.

Kelton 26:46

Crazy.

Krisserin 26:47

Yeah, sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze. And I do think that as when you're, don't know if you've like ever interviewed for a job or interviewed someone to hire, you can establish a lot about that person's work ethic and how good they are at what they do, by how they present themselves. So what they're the information that they're asking for, just like the, the general description of how they talk about what they're looking for says a lot about their character, and so if you're getting red flag vibes from an agent, you're probably not far off. You're probably, you know, your,

Kelton 27:25

I mean, they're like,

Krisserin 27:26

telling you something

Kelton 27:27

yeah. It's like you read Glassdoor reviews about a company. You're like, oh, I think I could get the vibe,

Krisserin 27:32

Yeah, exactly.

Kelton 27:35

but I. I do have a list I like, assuming that this magical connection doesn't, doesn't pan out because of the contents of the book or my, obsession with astrology. But, I have been looking forward to doing that, but I'm, I'm also looking forward to not doing that.

Krisserin 27:52

Well, do you think that, I mean, what was the timeline? You were finishing a proposal. When were you going to start querying? Would you entertain this agent while also querying? Because the thing is that you can very often, use that opportunity to be like, Hey, I'm actually in talks with this agent. There's interest because that will get the other agent's attention. And if there is someone that you really find, like, I don't know who, um, Robin Wall Kim's agent is, but like, if, if her agent was on your list and said, I am interested, you'd be like, great. I'm also like in, into, you know. What

Kelton 28:29

think it's, it's, I don't know. It's an interesting,

Krisserin 28:32

Let's

Kelton 28:33

Let's dream. Let's dream for a second. This is a nightmare to me. Literally, I and I, I imagine to many people, but I, I. Let me, lemme think on this for a second, because it's, to me, when I was a young bird dating,

Krisserin 28:52

When

Kelton 28:53

gonna take this back to, you know, when I, when I was a young boat hog, um, out on the streets of New York and DC and all the other places I was single, um. Of course in dating, you're like, yeah, I'm dating other people. Yeah, like, put your best cards on the table, what you got? Um,

Krisserin 29:11

I

Kelton 29:11

there's something,

Krisserin 29:12

never lived that life. I have no

Kelton 29:14

oh my God. I was like, unless we contractually agree to be boyfriend and girlfriend, I'm out there, bud

Krisserin 29:20

I got married at 21 Kelton. I did. I'm like,

Kelton 29:24

20.

Krisserin 29:25

yes, it's gonna be my 20 year anniversary in June.

Kelton 29:29

Listen, I never mapped to the numbers in my head. Okay. That's nuts. Good for you.

Krisserin 29:36

thanks. He

Kelton 29:37

was out there.

Krisserin 29:42

I'm talking to my friend right now. I'm too busy for you.

Kelton 29:45

Ben's always arguing that like, people I dated were my boyfriends, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. None of them were ever my boyfriends okay if we did not agree to it. It was not real. But like that was so easy for me to just be like, I'm dating, you know, it's an open market, like watching Love Island now, and they're like, we're open, we're open. Um, but with an agent and with agents, I dunno, it just feels like, it feels hard for me to be like, I'm gonna, well it's thanks for your interest, but I'm gonna be querying other people. Especially because you don't know how long that will take. You know, it's like if I send out to like my, my list of agents and I don't hear back from them in a week, you know, then am I telling this other person, hang on. Hang on. I'm waiting to hear from people, you know, it's like, ah,

Krisserin 30:37

but

Kelton 30:38

I don't like that. I don't, it all feels messy.

Krisserin 30:40

Okay, sure, fine. But it's not like you don't know if she reads your work and she's right away, like, I love this. Let me represent you.

Kelton 30:49

Yeah, it's true.

Krisserin 30:50

you know, you'll have a conversation and talk about it, et cetera. Um, and there are questions that you should ask her.

Kelton 30:58

Yeah.

Krisserin 30:58

You know, uh,

Kelton 30:59

Are there, do you like me? You wanna be my friend?

Krisserin 31:05

Yeah, no, I mean, but like, does, like, how

Kelton 31:10

Yeah.

Krisserin 31:11

in developmental process? And it's a little bit

Kelton 31:14

Yeah.

Krisserin 31:14

I think, for nonfiction than fiction. Does she represent fiction along with nonfiction? If you had this fiction book that, you have this fiction book that you're working on, would she be interested? Is it in a

Kelton 31:24

Right.

Krisserin 31:24

that she, you know, there are things that

Kelton 31:26

That's fair.

Krisserin 31:27

out with her. But, and that might take some time and you're not gonna. I don't think you're gonna be like, let me pause this to

Kelton 31:34

Yeah,

Krisserin 31:34

on this.

Kelton 31:35

interesting. That's interesting. No, no, no.

Krisserin 31:38

know. Because you're

Kelton 31:38

And you know

Krisserin 31:39

forms. It just, just get

Kelton 31:41

it's true. It's true. And then, you know, it's,

Krisserin 31:48

Because here, listen, like worst case scenario, you're right. She's like, you don't exactly fit my manuscript wishlist, so nevermind,

Kelton 31:57

yeah.

Krisserin 31:58

But then you can at

Kelton 32:00

it might.

Krisserin 32:00

well, I, I got these other irons in the fire.

Kelton 32:03

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 32:04

like, you

Kelton 32:06

Yeah. I, and I think if I had, if I could step back and think about it again as a job,

Krisserin 32:12

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 32:12

you know, it, it would be advantageous to have another iron in the fire

Krisserin 32:18

Yeah.

Kelton 32:19

was a job.'cause then I'd be like, well, here's this, here's this leverage for me.

Krisserin 32:26

Well, let's, let's look at it this way. Let's say there is a. An agency that you would, you always wanted to hire. They like do all this really great work. You're like, and I'm thinking job hat, job hat, like

Kelton 32:38

Job hat.

Krisserin 32:40

and you send in them an RFP and they're interested. Are you only gonna get one bid or are you

Kelton 32:45

Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's true.

Krisserin 32:48

multiple agencies to get multiple bids that you can compare them?

Kelton 32:51

If I was renovating my house, I would definitely get multiple contractor bids.

Krisserin 32:55

Yeah,

Kelton 32:56

Except, uh, you know, we would renovate our house ourself. But, um, I'm not gonna, I, I've married a contractor, okay? I'm not going, going out to a different bid.

Krisserin 33:07

there you

Kelton 33:07

My, my bid sleeps in my bed. Um, I think, you know, what would, um, offer me more direction here is if I had a dream agent, you know, when I was building that list. All of these people seem great, including the person who reached out to me. And so it's like, I'm sort of like, do you see the vision of the book? And so that's why I, I'm excited to send the material to her once I polish it to be like, do you see the vision of the book? And, and is it something you would want? To vision for the next two years, you know, while we're working on it and, and submitting it and getting it published, you know,

Krisserin 33:46

Yeah.

Kelton 33:46

and like, I think that at the end of the day, like that's the most important part. And you're right, I can do that with multiple people at the same time.'cause as much as I would like for this person to, to be the person, like, she might read the proposal and be like, it has legs, but not for me.

Krisserin 34:05

It is not something I'm passionate about

Kelton 34:07

Yeah.

Krisserin 34:08

think that's really important. You know, when I went through my, the process of reading my book to Kima, was so excited by it. And understood the themes and had lots of interesting insights and that's what you want. Like we were having so much fun

Kelton 34:23

Yeah.

Krisserin 34:23

about my book that I was like, alright, she gets it and she's gonna be able to represent this outwardly to other people. You know

Kelton 34:30

Yeah.

Krisserin 34:31

don't want like a, yeah, I could probably sell this

Kelton 34:34

A friend of mine was telling me like a, a nightmare story about, a previous agent they had where they were like CC'd on an email that was going out to, editors or publishers, I can't remember the exact details, but the agent was describing the book and just described it completely wrong in a way that the author would've never spoken about the book, and wouldn't wanna write the book in that direction ever. And she just like panicked and was like, you can't talk about the book that way. I'm not gonna write that book. That's not the book and so you do want someone, not necessarily who's just a good salesperson, but who's a good salesperson for your book.

Krisserin 35:14

Yeah. And your topic, what you're writing about, it is something that requires understanding and passion, you

Kelton 35:22

Yeah, yeah. You gotta care about this stuff.

Krisserin 35:25

You

Kelton 35:25

Uh, otherwise, uh.

Krisserin 35:27

in it and, inspired by it because the topic, it, it needs that. And so, yeah, I think my unsolicited advice is you should query

Kelton 35:38

Okay. Okay. Okay. I have been listening, I, I think I mentioned this on the last episode, but so many episodes of agents on the London Writer Salon. Just listen to them, gab, and it's so, it's just, they're all so different. There was one agent on their show they asked her, they were like, do you want things, nonfiction and fiction proposals and manuscripts professionally edited before they get to your desk? And she was like, no. Like you're just creating another barrier of entry for people who can't afford that. She's like, if the raw idea and talent are there. I can read past them not knowing perfect grammar gimme the good stuff, like the origin stuff and skip that. And then in three episodes later, someone was like, it should absolutely be edited first. Take your work seriously. And I, you know, it's like, there's, there's an air of truth in that of course, but um. Those are two really different vibes and like those are only two agents out of the thousands and thousands of potential ones to reach out for. So it is a testimony to like do the research, like it's such a big part of writing the book.

Krisserin 36:53

Yeah.

Kelton 36:54

to your point, like thinking about like, will she represent the novel, you know, and it's like I have a couple scrappy pages where I could be like, listen, my tone in a novel is different than it is in essay. Is this up your alley at all? And my search through Publisher's Marketplace tells me it could be. I think you're raising some valid points, some really good questions to ask. Other than me just begging her to marry me.

Krisserin 37:22

On the, on the point of editing though, I do think that, you don't wanna give an agent an easy no.

Kelton 37:28

Yeah.

Krisserin 37:29

You don't want any glaring things that are gonna just completely turn them off. And they get so many unsolicited queries in their inbox and through Query Tracker, and so many people are writing at very different. Levels of skill.

Kelton 37:43

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 37:43

Very few people go to MFA programs and, train, formally or take as many classes as I've taken or you've taken. Some people are just completely doing it on their own and they don't know what they don't know. And so, I, I feel like that second agent is probably saying that to bases.

Kelton 38:00

Yeah.

Krisserin 38:01

that first agent maybe has a little bit more flexibility and bandwidth to see past, more novel novice writing

Kelton 38:12

Yeah.

Krisserin 38:13

Um,

Kelton 38:13

Novel writing.

Krisserin 38:14

novel, novel writing you. I just think that you wanna put your best foot forward we're gonna talk to my teacher Mark Sarvas next week, and he always says don't rush. Don't rush. That's the biggest thing he always says, like you an agent that is a good agent will wait and you wanna make

Kelton 38:33

Yeah.

Krisserin 38:34

putting your best work in front of them. So,

Kelton 38:36

Yeah. I mean that's also,

Krisserin 38:38

I listened to his advice and then didn't send my book to that agent who emailed me five times asking for it. So maybe, I don't know.

Kelton 38:46

you had, you had special circumstances. Okay. You had

Krisserin 38:50

story when we

Kelton 38:51

I, please, please do. Oh my God. Can you imagine?

Krisserin 38:56

I'm so excited for you. I'm not surprised though. Every time you send me good news, I'm like, yep, yep, that's right.

Kelton 39:05

I'm feeling good. I, I am a little overwhelmed with the chapter summaries, I'll be honest. Trying to map out a narrative arc through an outline in chapter summaries of chapters you have not written is to me like a really crazy format. That I have to map against. Not every agent wants those, so I should say that up top, that like that I'm just building out the proposal in the most complete way that I can based on the broadest asks I have seen. It might end up being that the agent that I work with doesn't even care about these chapter summaries and is like, just write the book. Um. But you know, that's, that's like a non nonfiction kind of thing, you know, if I had a manuscript it, that would be really different.

Krisserin 39:56

Yeah. Yeah.'cause you gotta write the whole damn thing

Kelton 39:59

Yeah.

Krisserin 40:00

before you can query an agent.

Kelton 40:03

Yeah.

Krisserin 40:04

have you gone through your list of, did you say 15 or you were theoretical? Was that a theoretical? 15.

Kelton 40:11

It's, it's about 15. Let me bring up my list.

Krisserin 40:13

Okay.

Kelton 40:14

Let me bring, let me bring her up.

Krisserin 40:16

Let me bring her up.

Kelton 40:17

So let me tell you what I did on Publisher's Marketplace and when I was looking up agents from books that I love, I wrote down their name and put in their website and moved on. I made sure that I basically fit the wishlist, and then I was like, I'm gonna go back later to figure out what they need. You sent me a really good template of like how to track everything they need, but I was like this, this doesn't work for my brain. I just need their name and their website and then I will just go through them one by one and be like, okay. What do they need? I had talked about doing this last week where I was saying that I'm gonna time how long it takes me to submit to each of these agents just as like a, a curiosity,

Krisserin 41:08

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 41:08

to see how long this process actually is. Because something things with this level of tedium while you're doing them can feel really long. But in the end, it might take me like three hours to query 15 people or something. But I think, I think I am going to do that. There's no reason not to start looking at what they're asking for, because if they're not asking for chapter summaries, then I'll be ready to go by this Saturday.

Krisserin 41:34

what I wanted to ask, because I feel like based on what you said, you're kind of doing more homework than you need to, you know,

Kelton 41:43

Yeah.

Krisserin 41:43

some of them you probably are. Maybe, maybe for some of them you aren't. But

Kelton 41:47

Yeah.

Krisserin 41:48

be a list, a handful of people that you could just query now.

Kelton 41:52

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's true. I do. The only thing I have to get done is, changing the prologue and chapter one kind of structure and what they cover. The friend of mine who is reviewing my pro proposal very smartly was like, you have this amazing intro to your overview or your synopsis. And she's like, and then it's not. The beginning of the book, she's like, why is this amazing imagery not the beginning of the book? And I was like, ah, touche.

Krisserin 42:20

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 42:20

Touche. Um, uh, and that's because it was gonna be later in the book. But then I was like, you know what? It's a, it's a really strong prologue. cause I can tell the story in completion later, but just give the visuals as like this entrance to this life that I'm living. So I'm gonna do that, on Saturday. I would normally use that as my newsletter writing day, but. The newsletter's queued up because I didn't send it last week. So I have that morning to just work on the prologue and then, then I'm ready to start, ready to start querying, including sending it to the agent who reached out to me. So once that is dialed in, she will be top of the list.

Krisserin 43:00

Yeah, and you had a friend who was gonna introduce you to her agent. You have a lot of I, I feel like friendly first touches, which is really exciting.

Kelton 43:08

yeah, I have three. Inboxes that are open to receiving it. So that is really cool. I'm just thinking through, like, I'm gonna write the book. I'm actually gonna write this book. Cool.

Krisserin 43:21

Super cool.

Kelton 43:23

So, and then I, then I have to write the novel

Krisserin 43:27

One thing at a time.

Kelton 43:28

one thing at a time. Okay. Watch me do it, watch me do it at the same time. If, honestly, if I could get an advance good enough. You better, you better believe I'd do it at the same time.

Krisserin 43:39

think you would like kill your clients and just focus on writing?

Kelton 43:44

I would, I would keep my one core client'cause they, they pay the bills. And they're awesome and they just expanded my hours. So I'll stay with them. But I would, I think I would actually. To tell other smaller clients that I can't work with them. So that would be, that would be exciting. But, you know, that depends on like an advance that, that actually pays. It is, you know, crazy to think about, how little some of the advances are. And the work that goes into a book, you know, like I I, my brain is still caught in like 1995 where I'm like, the dream salary is a hundred thousand dollars a year. And it's like, yeah, that, that is, it's great to have that money. It's a thousand dollars a month just to pay for childcare. So,

Krisserin 44:37

yeah.

Kelton 44:37

that's living in the middle of nowhere.

Krisserin 44:39

know.

Kelton 44:39

Just trying to pay my health insurance now is so insane. Can I tell you something? That's a huge bummer for me. So when we were purchasing our health insurance, so it's 1650 a month, and I Oh. So overwhelmed by having to spend a thousand dollars more every single month in that moment of overwhelm, I chose not to get us dental insurance.'cause I was like, we are, we've almost never go to the dentist. Like I, it's just.

Krisserin 45:05

Dental

Kelton 45:06

It is a scam. And like I read some Reddit threads that were like, you can just get a cleaning for like a hundred bucks. You know, like just chill out. And so I was like,

Krisserin 45:15

get your

Kelton 45:15

I'm not gonna get dental insurance and context dental, dental insurance.

Krisserin 45:23

need it, right? Like what happened,

Kelton 45:24

my god. Dental insurance is like 60 bucks a month. Okay. Like, and I feel like I was just overwhelmed and I was like, I don't need it. We don't need it. I have already spent, I've already had to spend$400 on dental care for the family,

Krisserin 45:42

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 45:42

and I'm like, oh my gosh. Like if I, if I had just,

Krisserin 45:49

reminds me I need to make dental appointments for both of my

Kelton 45:52

uh, my God, I just was like

Krisserin 45:54

know,

Kelton 45:54

regretting it immediately.

Krisserin 45:56

dentist just is like, we're not taking insurance anymore. I'm like, cool. Great. Now I gotta

Kelton 46:01

I mean that was part, part of the problem was that, we couldn't find people who would take the dental insurance we had in town. So we were driving two hours away and, I was like, well, I'm not gonna do that. And like, you know, woods is just gonna need someone to look at his teeth, but it turns out Woods has bad teeth

Krisserin 46:18

Mm.

Kelton 46:18

so it's becoming a pretty expensive proposition. So what I'm saying is I need a, I need a big advance to pay for dental insurance.

Krisserin 46:30

Yeah. You know, there, there were a couple questions that Kima asked me when we started working together. One was, how much do you wanna sell this book for? Do you have financial goals for it? I hadn't thought,

Kelton 46:40

Yeah.

Krisserin 46:40

like, you, I, if it happens, great.

Kelton 46:43

Yeah.

Krisserin 46:43

I don't, haven't put my brain in the, into the place where I'm thinking of it like a business, and I should, because we

Kelton 46:49

Yeah.

Krisserin 46:49

time on these books and time is

Kelton 46:52

yeah, yeah. And I think we do ourselves a disservice, by like, you know, being in the category of art and being like, as long as I get to make my art, it's like, no, I'm an artist and I'm good at it and you should pay me for it.

Krisserin 47:06

Yeah. And if you go in Publisher's Marketplace and you see some of these deals, you're like, my book, I definitely should be able to sell my book for, I want, I want a major deal.

Kelton 47:18

I want a major deal for you. I want a major deal for you.

Krisserin 47:22

It should

Kelton 47:23

It is your book should, you should get a major deal. I listen, I don't think, I don't think I have a major deal on my hands,

Krisserin 47:30

I don't know how

Kelton 47:31

but.

Krisserin 47:31

goes for,

Kelton 47:33

But I do think I, I, I don't think it would be crazy to get a good deal.

Krisserin 47:38

See, this is what you, I thought about this. I've thought about this. This is what you need to do.

Kelton 47:43

Okay.

Krisserin 47:44

loosen your morals a little bit.

Kelton 47:48

Oh, okay.

Krisserin 47:50

I was,

Kelton 47:51

Tell

Krisserin 47:51

was

Kelton 47:52

me more.

Krisserin 47:52

was literally in target for some reason I was walking, I think I needed something for the kids' school or something, and they had a huge Mel Robbins section and I was like, God, if I just cared a little bit less and was a little bit more willing to scam people, I could be a multimillionaire.

Kelton 48:08

Oh girl. It's, you know, it's just like so hard. Many years ago now, I had a really, I had a good friend, who started this little side hustle. Selling wares. I'll just say that. And I, yeah, where selling wares. And I was like, I was like, so babe, who, where are you getting your wares from? And she was like, China.

Krisserin 48:34

Yeah.

Kelton 48:35

I was like, do you know the supplier? And she was like, well, it was the best deal. And I was like, do you know how they're being made? And she was like, in a factory.

Krisserin 48:43

Gross.

Kelton 48:44

like, yeah. And I just, from that moment on was like, do you not like, do not care? And she didn't care what the things she was selling were made of. And I, and you know, she was like, yeah, but this is like a business kelton. Like, I'm not gonna make money if I care about that. And I was like, uh oh God. Ugh. And the thing is, she's not wrong. And I have thought, you know, you see all these business classes where they're like, just come up with a need that needs filling. And I once did have a good idea, but it was based on plastic. And I was like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not pursuing that. Like I'm not gonna make more plastic trash. That satisfies a temporary need that ends up in a landfill, like just to be rich. Just to be rich and you know, Ramit, who I fucking love, he hosts the podcast Money for Couples. He would say like, I think he would probably argue that the best thing you can do is get rich and give that money back and funnel it back into the system in the right way,

Krisserin 49:47

you doing in the

Kelton 49:48

but with

Krisserin 49:48

to the environment and.

Kelton 49:51

Ooh, I know. And like I just, you know, like, I don't know, there's a, I. I once, bought this woman's, self-led day course that she was selling online.'cause she was selling it for like$15.'cause she had a lot of, a lot of followers. And I was like, I just wanna see what, what this is like, what people are selling that they're like, this is, you do this for the day. It changes your life. And it was like some journaling questions on a PDF and I, I just was like, it's scams, it's nonsense, it's bullshit. It's just taking advantage of people and like, you know, it's like, anyways, if they wanna have a Mel Robbins display for me in Target, maybe,

Krisserin 50:41

No,

Kelton 50:41

the, I.

Krisserin 50:42

I think your, your book, I could see you on like, good Morning America.

Kelton 50:47

I mean, the thing is my book is very much against those things. In a lot of ways it will be woven through. That's not what the book is about.

Krisserin 50:55

talking

Kelton 50:55

Um,

Krisserin 50:56

home and so many people are so mobile now in America because of

Kelton 51:01

I.

Krisserin 51:01

other things, and so I actually feel like your book does have, this is how you should sell it, mass market appeal.

Kelton 51:10

I mean, I say in my proposal that I think it's an amazing book club book, and I do believe that because it, it asks you to investigate whether the place you call home actually feels like it, if it is actually a place where you thrive. And the book is, is not prescriptive in saying that you need to move somewhere that is, but you can create better conditions for growth for yourself. Where you are. And this book kind of talks about how I did that and how I approach that. And I do think it is worth investigating. But the problem is that it requires a reader to be investigative and reflective about their own life. And that is hard to be mass market it

Krisserin 51:52

I don't think so. I

Kelton 51:54

you think people, I think people might be aspirationally reflective.

Krisserin 51:58

many copies did the secret sell? You know,

Kelton 52:02

Yeah, but the, the thing is, the secret promises you something.

Krisserin 52:05

France, whatever that real housewives of, have you seen this woman, the Real Housewives of

Kelton 52:10

No, but she's famous

Krisserin 52:12

she scammed people with this Like, anyway, I

Kelton 52:18

anyway.

Krisserin 52:19

your book has mass market appeal. I think it would make a great book, club book, and we're just

Kelton 52:24

Yeah.

Krisserin 52:24

that out into the universe because I definitely. I definitely wanna read it. Well, I think it's a good segue to talk about our goals for the next week.

Kelton 52:34

Yeah.

Krisserin 52:35

What are, what are they, Kelton?

Kelton 52:38

Oh boy.

Krisserin 52:38

query

Kelton 52:39

Howdy.

Krisserin 52:41

I think.

Kelton 52:41

I think you're right.

Krisserin 52:42

I

Kelton 52:42

think you're right that I should query. I'm gonna say, I'm gonna query three agents. Yeah, that's the number. I'm going three. Just because I don't wanna. I still have the flu. Okay. And I have to launch the class. I haven't finished building the materials I owe. I owe clients things. The child hasn't been in day,

Krisserin 53:03

that busy.

Kelton 53:05

the childcare. The child hasn't been in daycare all week. I'm so tired. Um, but I'm gonna say three. I'm gonna, I'm gonna query three.

Krisserin 53:13

Okay. Good. Good, good,

Kelton 53:17

What about you?

Krisserin 53:17

good.

Kelton 53:18

Good. Good, good. Ah, it's moving forward.

Krisserin 53:21

It's

Kelton 53:22

God. It's exciting.

Krisserin 53:24

Um, girl, you gimme some goals I feel like I feel a bit stagnant right now. Obviously, I'll finish, I will apply to the grad school program. But I

Kelton 53:36

Remind me.

Krisserin 53:37

I've been solo parenting this week, like

Kelton 53:39

Yeah.

Krisserin 53:40

town and so I've been, and Sabine has the flu and so I've been kind of like. I'm not only responsible for on my own taking care of the kids, but you

Kelton 53:50

Yeah,

Krisserin 53:51

is kind of, doesn't have her play buddy. And so I've just been a little bit overwhelmed with parenting, but

Kelton 53:57

Uhhuh.

Krisserin 53:58

don't like, I, I don't have the drive to wake up at five o'clock in the morning. I'm not particularly, inspired to work on my short stories. I don't

Kelton 54:10

Okay.

Krisserin 54:11

to pick up the second book again. I have my agent meeting on the 13th of February, so I've got some time between now and then, which, by the way, astrologically speaking is meant to be the turning point for Libra.

Kelton 54:22

Ooh.

Krisserin 54:23

to have a great year this year, and Capricorn and Aries in cancer, I

Kelton 54:26

Yeah. Yeah. Cap's supposed to have a good year. I'm ready. Okay. Agent meeting is not for a couple weeks. Submission is not till end of Feb. You know what I think you should do? I think you should finish the grad school application early to just get it out of the way.

Krisserin 54:41

gonna do that. Yeah,

Kelton 54:43

And then I think you should read a couple books you wanna read.

Krisserin 54:47

I've been trying. I am in such a book slump.

Kelton 54:50

Yeah, I think you should have a Barnes and Noble date. I think you should take a sick day from work. Once the girls are healthy and back in school and the man is home doing his his duties,

Krisserin 55:03

man.

Kelton 55:04

the man. I think you might, you might have a, a bookstore beach day. I think you need a little soul restoration.

Krisserin 55:13

Hmm.

Kelton 55:15

Or that, or you could go to the spa. You know how much I love the spa?

Krisserin 55:19

I do need, this is the other thing I didn't mention at the top, but like my body is breaking down. I injured my knee. I'm pretty

Kelton 55:26

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 55:27

my meniscus playing

Kelton 55:28

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 55:29

I have had skin issues on my face that are driving me insane, that make me feel gross and, and like are painful.

Kelton 55:37

Okay. All right. I'm

Krisserin 55:38

next week. I have an

Kelton 55:40

good.

Krisserin 55:40

set for that, but.

Kelton 55:42

beach because I don't want you walking on uneven sand with your, your broken body. But I am gonna advocate for a bookstore and spa. I look, I think you need to like treat yourself. Have you done something nice for yourself

Krisserin 55:58

I really

Kelton 55:58

in a bit?

Krisserin 55:59

a problem treating myself.

Kelton 56:03

Yeah, but you're worn down. Then treat yourself again.

Krisserin 56:07

Yeah. Okay. I like that idea. Maybe a

Kelton 56:10

Finish the application.

Krisserin 56:12

in a while.

Kelton 56:13

go to the library.

Krisserin 56:16

Yeah. Yeah.

Kelton 56:18

to the library. Get a nice latte.

Krisserin 56:23

I

Kelton 56:23

not every week has to be work. I would, I would, I would pay so much money to have my only goal for the week be go to the spa and read a book.

Krisserin 56:32

I wish I could like fly to Colorado and kidnap you and take you and take you to the spa, and

Kelton 56:39

Oh

Krisserin 56:39

have

Kelton 56:39

God.

Krisserin 56:40

of reading and,

Kelton 56:41

Shout out. Shout out to my husband. I have to give this to him. We went to Taos the other weekend between, my bouts of flu to visit his cousin, and I thought we were all going skiing on Sunday morning and it turns out that Ben was just taking Woods skiing and he'd booked me a massage at the spa. Yeah. And so I just disappeared into the spa and when I came out, woods was ready for his nap, and I was like, ah,

Krisserin 57:09

Best.

Kelton 57:10

so good. Like he nailed it. Good husband.

Krisserin 57:14

That's great.

Kelton 57:15

Yeah.

Krisserin 57:15

I'll give Boyan, he needs to give boy on some tips. We're just so busy with tr like, I was gone in Miami and then

Kelton 57:24

yeah, it's tough.

Krisserin 57:26

two ships passing in the night. But, um,

Kelton 57:29

All right.

Krisserin 57:29

like that. I'll, I'll go on a library date. I'll,

Kelton 57:33

All right. I'm right.

Krisserin 57:35

Um.

Kelton 57:35

it down.

Krisserin 57:36

Yeah. I think the other thing that could be good is just doing a little bit more research on publishers. That was one thing that Kima had asked me was like, who's your dream publisher? And I was like, I couldn't even tell you. I mean, I did do some initial research on editors and I think that's what we're gonna talk about when we meet next Friday. But maybe I'll

Kelton 57:54

Yeah.

Krisserin 57:55

bit more of that if I'm going to the library in Barnes and Noble, which by the way, in Calabasas are right next to each other. Very

Kelton 58:00

Ooh,

Krisserin 58:01

Um, I can do a little bit of, a little bit more research on editors and publishers. So that'll be my

Kelton 58:09

wow. Wow.

Krisserin 58:10

my secondary goal.

Kelton 58:11

Good.

Krisserin 58:11

Okay, great.

Kelton 58:13

Okay. All right.

Krisserin 58:14

Alright.

Kelton 58:15

Uh, listeners, I do want you to tell us if you would go to a retreat with us.

Krisserin 58:20

I would love, listen, I love planning things. We will make it so fun. It will be so, like I, when I planned my birthday trip to Sedona, my girlfriends were like, can you plan every trip I had activities, I had every, I had it all mapped out. We'll make it for those who drink fun, for those who are sober. Kelton I are I are a hoot. I promise. Let's make it happen. There'll be some craft work, some reading. It'll be so awesome.

Kelton 58:48

You can make this happen by emailing officialpenpalspod@gmail.com. You can find us on all the platforms at Pen Pals Pod. Obviously, we'd love hearing from you, so please write to us and talk to us. Please share this podcast with your friends. Wouldn't it be so cool if you were the person who recommended this podcast before we were famous authors.

Krisserin 59:11

I will say I get these inbounds to our, podcast email from people selling SaaS products for podcasters. And apparently we're in the top 1% of podcasts because most podcasts only ever have three episodes, and we are on the 16th episode of our second season. So we must be doing something

Kelton 59:30

We are doing great. We're doing great.

Krisserin 59:32

'cause we have fun

Kelton 59:33

We're keep going.

Krisserin 59:34

Yes,

Kelton 59:34

And we're going to listen, we're going to keep going when we're famous. So

Krisserin 59:39

Yeah.

Kelton 59:40

you, if you get in our inbox now, who knows what'll happen?

Krisserin 59:44

Honestly, if you write to me and you got something going on, we had someone send us a DM on Instagram saying how much they appreciated the podcast and it got them to finish their book and they're, they're publishing a children's book. And I was like, please send us the link so we can send out the pre-order for you. We

Kelton 1:00:01

Yeah,

Krisserin 1:00:01

to celebrate your wins. Because that's, that's what, why we're doing it. You guys, people who write into us and say that we're helping them is what keeps us

Kelton 1:00:09

it is

Krisserin 1:00:09

please,

Kelton 1:00:10

the best.

Krisserin 1:00:11

please send us a note. We would love to hear from you. Where to follow us. Also, just a reminder, women's Foundation of Minnesota. We will link to it in the show notes, but if you're listening, it's pretty easy. URL, it's w fmn.org. So please go and, support the people of Minnesota with your dollars if you are, in a position to do so.

Kelton 1:00:34

Happy writing and end fascism.

Krisserin 1:00:38

Thank you for

Kelton 1:00:38

you next week.

Krisserin 1:00:40

See you next week. Happy writing.