ER Visits, Cozy Reads, and the Grace of Not Writing

Krisserin checks in from a Kansas City hotel room fresh off an unexpected ER visit in St. Louis — chest pains, a CT scan, and a lot of unanswered questions — while Kelton battles a household plague of sickness, broken blow-dryers, and postpartum burnout. The two trade brutally honest book reviews: Krisserin DNFs the buzzy bestseller Yesteryear (great concept, rough execution), while Kelton grinds through the literary sci-fi of The Other Valley and falls head over heels for Heather Fawcett's Agnes Aubert's Mystical Cat Shelter. They dig into what makes good writing actually good — from research depth to character arcs to the controversial no-quotation-marks device — and commiserate over nepo babies in Hollywood, the guilt of not writing, and the importance of just taking care of yourself when life is beating you up. This week's goals: a spa treatment in Vegas and some middle grade fiction in the mountains.

Books Mentioned in this episode:

"Yesteryear" by Caro Claire Burke
"The Other Valley" by Scott Alexander Howard
"Agnes Aubert's Mystical Cat Shelter" by Heather Fawcett
"Piranesi" by Susanna Clarke
"Dungeon Crawler Carl" by Matt Matt Dinniman
"The Ogress and the Orphans" by Kelly Barnhill
"The Bear and the Nightingale" by Katherine Arden

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Transcript

Kelton 0:00

Hi, Krisserin.

Krisserin 0:01

Hi, Kelton.

Kelton 0:01

look at you in a hotel room somewhere.

Krisserin 0:04

Yes, I am in an undisclosed location.

Kelton 0:06

It's, um, it's giving Marriott.

Krisserin 0:08

It's a

Kelton 0:08

It's giving...

Krisserin 0:09

Kansas City.

Kelton 0:10

Yeah, I was gonna say, it's giving Best Western.

Krisserin 0:12

Oh no, not Best Western.

Kelton 0:14

Listen, I love a Best Western,

Speaker 0:16

I'm Krisserin Canary. And I'm Kelton Wright. Follow our quest to publish our first novels from first drafts, to query letters through inevitable rejections

Speaker 2 0:24

and hopefully eventual success

Speaker 0:26

from California to

Speaker 2 0:27

Colorado. This is pen pals.

Kelton 0:30

It's the same everywhere you go.

Krisserin 0:32

It's like McDonald's, you know? Reliably disappointing. so I had an eventful week.

Kelton 0:41

Yeah?

Krisserin 0:41

sp-

Kelton 0:41

Please tell me.

Krisserin 0:43

I spent, um, Monday and part of Tuesday evening in the ER.

Kelton 0:50

Is everyone okay?

Krisserin 0:52

It was me. It was me. I was in the ER in St. Louis, Missouri. Um,

Kelton 0:57

Okay, I just, I have to, I have to clue in the listener. I don't have, like, track of Krisserin's days, so I don't know what happens when. But both-- There's b- been two significant family members who have been in the hospital since we've spoken, and I didn't realize that a third one was going to be you. Are you okay?

Krisserin 1:18

I mean, neither did I, to be honest. Um, yeah, I started having chest pains, like, like a sharp pain in my sternum, and I was a little nauseous and a little dizzy, and they were like, "You need to go to the ER." to the urgent care. They took an-- they did an EKG and took a blood glucose, and they're like, "So your friend can drive you or we're calling you an ambulance." I'm like, "Cool.

Kelton 1:43

Oh, no.

Krisserin 1:44

ER in St. Louis." Um, so I got there at 6:00, and I was there until 2:00 a.m. did an EKG, a full blood work, CAT scan with contrast. I got like the full workup, and it was exhausting and stressful, and they don't know what's wrong with me. I'm fine now. I feel fine. I'm at a conference in Kansas City, so obviously I'm okay. But it was like not the way that I was hoping to start my week, so

Kelton 2:20

Oh my God, Krisserin. Um- I-- do you... I mean, it sounds like stress. Could it be stress?

Krisserin 2:30

My working theory is that-- 'cause what I was doing when it started was I was shopping with my f- my best friend from college, so that was not stressful. But we did get a Vietnamese coffee, and I think that might have done it. But I drink Vietnamese coffees all the time.

Kelton 2:45

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 2:47

first I thought it was because my friend's a horrible driver, she was making me carsick, which might have been part of it. But I think all of it combined might have done it, because I was sitting in the ER, and at like, I don't know, hour three f- in the ER, I... all my symptoms were gone.

Kelton 3:05

Yeah.

Krisserin 3:05

with the doctor, they were like, "Uh, well, it doesn't look like you're having a heart attack. But, it could be gallbladder issue, or it could be a blood clot in your lung, so we should have a CT scan." And I was like, "Fuck, I guess I'm having a CT scan." I didn't wanna leave the hospital if it was something, like,

Kelton 3:26

Yeah.

Krisserin 3:27

bad, you know? But whatever. I'll just... I guess I'll see my doctor when I get home from this marathon trip that I'm on. But it was, not fun. then I missed a bunch of this conference that I'm at. It has all of these, required meetings that you have to go to for the, for it to be free,

Kelton 3:44

Yeah.

Krisserin 3:44

a couple of them. And I had to be like, "Sorry, I thought I was dying, so I missed our meeting." Writing done since the last time we spoke. It's been, it's been a kind of a crazy week. I did not-- I, I started and DNF'd yesteryear,

Kelton 4:05

Yeah. Yeah, I'm super curious to hear your review of that. I, as is my way, I have read like 19 reviews of it instead of reading the book.

Krisserin 4:14

Do you do that? Do you read reviews of books before you read them?

Kelton 4:17

I often-- this is a thing I often do with TV and movies, is I read exhaustively about the movie. And not necessarily reviews, but like about the casting decisions, about the director, about like the production of it, and then I start reading the reviews after it comes out. Like, I just like love knowing everything about it rather than watching it. Which has resulted in me being pretty good at book and movie trivia. But, having no soul. So but I, I worried about Yester Year, and so I just kinda wanted to know in advance if I was gonna enjoy it or not, and the reviews really were like, "This is not for you."

Krisserin 4:58

Yeah. so "Yesteryear," I feel like she had a really good concept. I think she had a really good idea,

Kelton 5:07

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 5:08

what if we were to take a woman who evangelizes a lifestyle online and make her live that lifestyle? Which is really, you know, not a bad con- it's a great concept.

Kelton 5:20

It's an incredible concept, and my favorite review was someone being like, "I'm so fucking mad that you had the perfect concept and then you didn't execute it."

Krisserin 5:31

The writing is bad. I'm sorry. It-- The writing is really bad, and I think it's this, a lot of people talk about, "Oh, the character is unlikable," or this, that, and the other, and I don't really care about that. Yeah, she was unlikable, think that she was also predictable in her unlikability, and I obviously didn't finish the novel, so I, um, speak to the rest of the story. But there's a lot of her throwing in Bible verses to give context to kind of the character is feeling, and I feel like this is a woman who... And I don't know anything about this writer, so I'm just gonna make a bold guess. I think that she failed to do what Ali Hofkossic did excellently, which is write characters with compassion that you don't relate to. I think you can tell that she doesn't like her main character.

Kelton 6:33

She said in an interview that she had, for research, interviewed women who had left the church, but as she started drafting the novel, she didn't do any more research, which is crazy to me. 'Cause like, one, you shouldn't just be talking to people who left the church. You should be talking to people who are in it, because that's what's happening with the character.

Krisserin 6:57

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 6:58

Two, the, the parts when she is thrown in the past, one of the reviews I read really harped on the fact that she'd be like, "Chores, chores, chores." And it's like the chores of the 1800s are so physical and repetitive and demanding, and to not go into elaborate prose about how a modern woman who has not done any of that feels doing that stuff, to just call it chores, chores, chores, it's like so crazy. There's also so many amazing diaries from that time of women who have lived then that you could just read even for fun. Like I was thinking this is early 1900s, but Tomboy Bride specifically, covers a woman's diary who lived here. And so her descriptions of riding horseback through like four feet of snow, in a skirt, like while she's like carrying her baby, you know? It's like that stuff is available. It's a rich context, and it doesn't sound like she referenced any of it.

Krisserin 7:57

Yeah. It makes you think about when we spoke to Rachel Hochhauser and the amount of research that she did and readings that she did to prepare to show the everyday life of the characters, who lived during that time. All of that to say, I know this person wrote a very, commercial book that was meant to do a very specific thing, lot of people are ripping through it, and they're reading it really quickly 'cause they wanna know what's gonna happen. And I know there's some ending that is, some people find satisfying and some people don't. But I'm such an impatient reader I just can't get over the hurdle of how bad the writing is and how almost, I don't wanna use the word, maybe, dismissively she uses Bible scripture as a shorthand for something. It just feels lazy to me.

Kelton 8:43

Yeah.

Krisserin 8:44

And even, like, how she uses it doesn't-- it's not woven into the text well. So it just wasn't for me. It wasn't

Kelton 8:52

Yeah.

Krisserin 8:53

for me. I'm sure, commercially it's, a lot of people will enjoy reading it. But I need a book to be well-written for me to wanna get through it, and it just wasn't. I'm sorry, Caro.

Kelton 9:04

Carol Claire Burke, I think.

Krisserin 9:06

Caro, Clara, but congrats on your success.

Kelton 9:08

Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, in...

Krisserin 9:10

writer to one very well,

Kelton 9:13

Yeah, to one who's on the bestsellers list.

Krisserin 9:16

Yeah,

Kelton 9:16

Good job.

Krisserin 9:17

me.

Kelton 9:18

I read two books this week, so my goal for the past week was four items of personal caretaking, and part of that I took on myself is just reading. And the first book was, I finished The Other Valley by Scott Alexander Howard.

Krisserin 9:33

Uh-oh.

Kelton 9:34

this book,

Krisserin 9:35

well, well, um,

Kelton 9:37

well-received.

Krisserin 9:38

well-received, lauded novel

Kelton 9:41

I think sometimes when you read the back of a book, you should just trust your instincts. There was a bunch of blurbs on the back of this book that were all like You know, breathtaking, affirming, grief, you know, like philosophical. I was like, "I should not have read this book." I will say I, I really enjoyed the ending. I find that it is kind of rare, especially with literary men, that they finish the book in a way that feels good. They often seem to finish the books in a way that's supposed to teach you something, you know? And, he didn't. He finished the book in a way where I was like, "Mm, that was nice." But it was a long road to get there. Um, that book was really grinding. Uh, and there were a few choices in his writing that really frustrated me. Uh, one, he is one of those writers who chooses not to use quotation marks, um, as, like, a literary device. Not that it... No. Nope. No.

Krisserin 10:51

No,

Kelton 10:51

Sally... No. I, I was talking about this book, but it's, I don't hate that as a device, 'cause I love it in Sally Rooney. I don't notice it when Sally Rooney does it, 'cause she does it well.

Krisserin 11:04

Mm.

Kelton 11:04

is you have to do it really, really well. To, like, alter the way that we commonly use written language, you have to do it well. And I found myself having to repeatedly reread moments of dialogue to be like, "Who the fuck is talking? Which part of this was said out loud? What part are they thinking?" And I just, if I, I, I just, I'm not an idiot. Like, for me to have to keep going back to be like, "What?" Um, I mean, I am postpartum, so maybe that's part of it. But I found that really, uh, not well done. And then there's also the premise of this book,

Krisserin 11:42

remind me 'cause I'm forgetting what it was.

Kelton 11:44

So the book, I- the idea of The Other Valley is that there's one core valley that you live in, and there's a lake, um, on the side of the valley, and there's ridges on either side. It's a tight valley. Um, it's described as, like, you can see the fence that goes around the valley, and repeating ad nauseam on the other side of the ridges is other exact replicas of that valley. But if you go one way, it's adds 20 years every valley, and if you go the other way, it subtracts them. So you, in theory, can get passes to go look at your past or go look at your present, and there's a bunch of rules, and it's very set up, and a- most people get denied. And the, the book is about a young woman whose, like, first crush dies when she's little, and then what happens over the course of her life and her life in other valleys. And s- and the, it's set up very much like The Giver, where there's only a couple high schools, and everyone is Like dropped into a profession permanently. And the professions are very like teacher, uh, orchard worker, um, counselor. You know, they're very like tidy professions in the same way The Giver was. But they also have cars, and they have pop music on the radio, and like these are... They were like throwaway lines, but I was like, "So you're telling me in this tiny valley, you have a car manufacturer, you have an oil refinery, you have gas stations, you have car dealerships." Like, there's like all these elements that it's like you're in this tiny fucking valley that you can see end to end. You have the industry for vehicles and for pop music? Like, it fundamentally didn't make sense, took me right out of it. When it was like e- even if he'd just been like, "There's a trolley system," I would've believed that more than there are cars. There are cars in this tiny valley where you can walk to the fence. It just... That, it took me out of it entirely, and then he also just, like for shits and giggles, ha- uh, some things have French names and some don't. Like, some of the careers are referred to by their French name and some aren't. And I'm like, "Why? Why?" So, but that said, I thought some of the writing was good. The book made me really feel a lot of things, um, and I found the ending satisfying. So glad to get it out of the way. I read it. I did my homework. Good girl. And then I had ordered, on a whim, I just saw this book on bookshop.org the other day. I ordered Agnes Aubert's Mystical Cat Shelter by Heather Fawcett. I have never loved a book so much. It was fast, it was fun, it was adorable, it was consistent, uh, and I, I found it utterly charming. So if you like a little bit of magic and like a cozy fireplace book, like I cannot recommend Heather Fawcett's Agnes Aubert's Mystical Cat Shelter enough. What an...

Krisserin 14:57

like a book written for Kelton, right?

Kelton 14:59

Oh my God, it was so written for me. It's so, like, a great protagonist, uh, just like a, a cozy book. It's such a cozy weekend book.

Krisserin 15:10

That's all I want in life is a cozy, a cozy read.

Kelton 15:14

Yeah, and so it also turned me on to Heather Fawcett, who has written a bunch of other books. Um, so I'm excited to dive into her writing.

Krisserin 15:22

Yeah, read her whole library. I found out that I skipped a book in the Juliet Marillier series,

Kelton 15:29

No.

Krisserin 15:30

so I've got a whole book to read that I missed. Yeah. Um, I don't know if I wanna go back there, but there were six books and I went from the fourth to the sixth, and I only realized it 'cause I bought them as a bundle On the Kindle store. Uh, 'cause you know how you can do that? It'll be like, "Buy the whole series," so I did. I was like, "Fuck it." Um, and I somehow missed one, so I

Kelton 15:55

So funny.

Krisserin 15:57

I'm supposed to be talking about "Yesteryear" with all my girlfriends this weekend on our, on this trip that we're going on. I like-- I was like, "Hey, everyone, let's read this book so we can talk about it," and then I just am not gonna finish it, so. Um, of them-- I think one person has finished the whole book, and there's a couple that are still, like, in the process, so it'll be interesting to see how they feel about it 'cause they're not writers,

Kelton 16:17

Yeah.

Krisserin 16:17

liked it or if they found the writing particularly... They do read a lot. Everyone reads a lot, so it'll be interesting to see, but. Um, would you recommend "The Other Valley"?

Kelton 16:30

If you like books that are, philosophical sci-fi, if you like books that are about, grief and the concept of time, i- a- if you like YA stories, uh, yes.

Krisserin 16:51

Giver"?

Kelton 16:55

I would say don't read it because it, you know, it's like The Giver is a book that stays with you through eternity, um, which is, you know, Kate Flanders and I were talking about, like, the first 30 pages of this book. Like, I was saying I really wanted to read his query letter because it really feels identical to The Giver in the beginning, and then it really diverges. It takes a completely different path, and I don't think that, you know, The Giver has the only ability to write about books where you're destined for a certain job.

Krisserin 17:25

Yeah.

Kelton 17:26

I mean that, that... the phrasing of that sentence wasn't right, but you get what I'm saying.

Krisserin 17:30

Yeah.

Kelton 17:32

so, yeah, I, l- I've, I did read it. I didn't have to make myself read it. I kept picking up that book to be like, "Where are we going with this? What's happening?"

Krisserin 17:41

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelton 17:42

There were parts where it kinda dragged and got a little depressing, but, like I said, it had an ending that was nice,

Krisserin 17:48

Okay. So maybe?

Kelton 17:50

maybe.

Krisserin 17:51

Okay.

Kelton 17:52

that book, like, a 6.5 out of 10.

Krisserin 17:55

Okay, the other book, Heather... You said Heather

Kelton 17:59

fawcett wrote it, and it is named Agnes O'Bear's Mystical Cat Shelter.

Krisserin 18:05

And you would give that

Kelton 18:07

A 46 out of

Krisserin 18:09

10? Okay. You know what's

Kelton 18:10

Listen, uh,

Krisserin 18:11

conf- Go

Kelton 18:12

Heather Fawcett's, that book is not gonna challenge you. That book is a, a warm hug to people who love cats.

Krisserin 18:19

Okay. There

Kelton 18:21

And, like, it's, you know, it is...

Krisserin 18:24

hug to people who love cats."

Kelton 18:26

Yeah, call me, Heather Fawcett, I know, I know you're on Substack. So I remembered that my four items of personal caretaking, that was my goal for the week.

Krisserin 18:37

Yep.

Kelton 18:38

and as I told Krisserin the day after we recorded, I woke up sick, and Woods was sick, and now Ben is sick. Um, and I had vertigo again, and it was just like, it just felt like the world was, like, falling around me. And I, I think it was, like, Saturday or Sunday, I was like, "You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna give myself a beautiful blowout to feel better." And so I started blowing my, blow-drying my hair, and then my blow-dryer died. And I, like, checked all these outlets, and it just, like, didn't work anymore. And then I was like, "You know what I have? I have my grandmother's blow-dryer downstairs in the other bathroom that I leave there for when my mom visits, and it's, it's worked for the last 25 years." And I brought it upstairs, and it blow-dried my hair for, like, 30 seconds, and then it died. And like, you know, Ben, who doesn't believe in any, like, cosmic stuff, was like, "Well, let me go check the breakers." Like, "Let's do all this," like... No, they both just died. And just midway, my hair just looking a, a mess. And I was just, like, at, at my tail end of wits or what- whatever. Just so like, "Let me just blow-dry my fucking hair."

Krisserin 19:48

shower.

Kelton 19:53

and stuff. And then this morning, uh, I... Woods has been sick all week, so he's been out of daycare. So my ability to take care of myself has been, like, really low. And I was walking with Woods this morning, and I ran into a neighbor who has a four-year-old and went through the same daycare I did. And I was like, "Woods still has a runny nose. Like, he seems like he's feeling a lot better. Like, he played all day yesterday. He's, he's totally himself. But he has a runny nose, and I feel bad taking him to daycare." And this neighbor was like, "Are you kidding me, Kelton?" He was like, "Do you know how many kids at daycare have a runny nose? That's why Wood got sick. Like, you- he's fine. You should take him to daycare." So I took him to daycare this morning, and I was, like, prepared with this, like, full speech for the per- care- daycare provider to be like, "I'll take him back." Like, I just, I don't know. This is my first kid. And she was just like, "Kelton, oh my God, he's fine. Just leave him with me." So that was caretaking number one, was just taking my kid to daycare. And then on the way home, at the end of my dirt road into my, my own special valley, I saw, uh, a van for window cleaning services, and it's been something I've wanted

Krisserin 21:05

I see them

Kelton 21:06

It's, it's been something I've wanted for a really long time, and I was like, "I should pull over and, like, just get their card." And then I was like, "No, you have so much work to do. Just drive home." And so I, I went home, I took Jibs for a walk, and when I came back, those window cleaners were at my neighbor's. And so I was just like, "Hey, can you come clean my windows?" So that's They're in my house right now. They're cleaning my windows, and so that's one special thing for me.

Krisserin 21:34

That's nice. I thought it was Ben cleaning your... I couldn't-- 'cause he's such a tiny little man behind you. I was like,

Kelton 21:39

No.

Krisserin 21:40

their windows."

Kelton 21:40

And those men cleaning my windows brought a corgi puppy.

Krisserin 21:44

Oh, oh,

Kelton 21:46

Yeah, so

Krisserin 21:48

that.

Kelton 21:48

was just out there, like, petting this corgi puppy. I don't feel like I got four items of personal caretaking. It was a hard week, but I do feel like I got at least, like, two and a half. And I didn't do any writing. Um, I just, I was just blasted this week and like Uh, oh, oh, I'm remembering. There are some other elements of caretaking I did for myself. One,

Krisserin 22:10

them.

Kelton 22:11

I texted a friend asking her if she could, um, spare an evening to help me go through my closet. Um, she's like a very cool artist. Uh, and so she said yes, so we're gonna make plans for next week to go through my closet. And then I, every morning, have been having a little smoothie with Katchava

Krisserin 22:32

Oh.

Kelton 22:33

And collagen. For those who don't know, Krisserin works for Katchava.

Krisserin 22:40

I

Kelton 22:41

it's been my, my, like, special be like, "Okay, get some vitamins. Feed yourself." And I'm, like, blasting through my supply.

Krisserin 22:49

If

Kelton 22:49

I do, I do. I want the chai flavor.

Krisserin 22:53

love the chai flavor. Um,

Kelton 22:55

it's so

Krisserin 22:56

yeah, just email

Kelton 22:57

good.

Krisserin 22:57

I'll send you a promo code that you can

Kelton 23:00

Amazing.

Krisserin 23:02

Yeah.

Kelton 23:03

Ugh, the dream. But those are, like, little, little things I did. Oh, and I organized the upstairs, so there were some things. I got, got c- I got to take care of myself, yeah.

Krisserin 23:13

All right. Nice. Um,

Kelton 23:16

is about being a writer

Krisserin 23:17

it's okay. You, you've gotta take care of yourself first before you can do those things, you know?

Kelton 23:23

I know. I, I was thinking so much about guests that we've had who've just, like, powered through having a baby and writing, and, like, I, I... It's tough on this podcast 'cause I don't wanna ask people, like, personal details that they don't wanna share, but I do sort of wanna ask everybody. I'm like, "How many minutes away does your family live? Do you speak to them? Do they come over? Do they help? Do you have other people in your network who come take your children? Are your children at daycare? What year did they start? What month did they start?" You know, it's like, "Do you have a job? Do you have a full-time job? How often does that job, like, ping you? What is your relationship to childcare? Do you have babysitters?" Like, I wanna ask all of these questions 'cause I'm like, how specific is... Like, I, I, I want... It's tough because those questions are coming from a place of me wanting to know if I am behind, if I could be doing more, you know? And I think I have to, like, relinquish those questions to be like, "You are doing what you can, and you're doing a lot of it really well, so just stop it

Krisserin 24:28

can't...

Kelton 24:28

and take a breath."

Krisserin 24:30

say about comparison, you can't compare. You're doing the best you can. You're probably doing better than most,

Kelton 24:37

Yeah, I mean, I, I, uh... Yeah, I mean, for sure considering, but, it does feel like, you know, in all those questions, I do prioritize clients and money over writing, like, almost all of the time, and I've been really trying to focus on, like, the first 30 minutes are for the book, et cetera. But when the first 30 minutes are, like, my husband and kid are both sick, I'm sick, you know, it's like I, I just, like, like, c- there... I can't do it, and so all that's left is client work. And I just, like, you know... I know a lot of our listeners relate to that, where they're like, "I'm trying," and it's just, like, not happening. And I just, I feel it.

Krisserin 25:23

I bet. You know, well, you know what I'm gonna tell you.

Kelton 25:30

Yeah.

Krisserin 25:32

You gotta take care of yourself first be gentle with yourself, and we do the best that we can. But it is, it's hard to watch, look at other people who, from the outside seem like doing more and doing better.

Kelton 25:47

Uh, Yeah, I just usually want, like, a playbook. I'm like, you know, like, "How'd you, how'd you do it? Tell, tell me, like, how did you do it?" I think that's, like, one reason I really love, this one financial podcast I listen to because, like, you get the ins and outs of how they fix their finances. And that n- most of these episodes do not relate to my personal financial situation at all. I'm just curious about, like, their game plan. And I think that's one thing I, like, love in books too, and any book that I'm, like, struggling with, it's usually because I'm like, "What are you doing? What's your plan? What are you doing?" And I think about that a lot with my character. I'm like, "What is she doing? What is she trying to move forward?" Like, 'cause right now, like, at, at least the book, a lot of it feels like it's happening to her, and I, I know that there needs to be such a good balance of her, like, having conviction and taking action, and then things happening to her. So, life lessons for writing.

Krisserin 26:46

I find it so interesting that you do all of that research before reading a book or watching a movie. I go into everything blind.

Kelton 26:54

Well, I will say, like, that mystical cat shelter book, like, I didn't even read what it was about before I bought it. I saw the cover on bookshop.org, and I put it in my basket, and it showed up at my house, and I opened it. You know, it's like, it's not for everything. It's usually for the things that I have a lot of trepidation around engaging with, where I'm like, "I wanna know about this thing because it's part of culture, but I don't wanna, like, actually spend that time with it."

Krisserin 27:24

I like to have an adulterated experience with something, and then I do that. After the fact, I'll, read up on it and, watch a documentary about the making of it or whatever, and then watch it again if I'm still interested. But I like have that afterwards. So "Hamnet," for example, had a whole, 10, 15 minute ab- about, I told you about this, the making of the movie and the adaptation of the novel and, that was interesting after the fact, but I think if I watched it beforehand, I would've probably not watched the movie. I would've been like, "Eh, pass." Ugh. it's hard for me. I, I... It does make me wonder how... I mean, the concept is really interesting, and maybe the concept alone sold the book, but you always hear about how you only have

Kelton 28:16

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 28:19

and that if it's not propulsive and carrying you through it, it's just gonna be a no. No agent's gonna wanna sign you, no publisher is gonna wanna purchase it. these books get bought and sold, it's,

Kelton 28:32

Yeah.

Krisserin 28:33

to me.

Kelton 28:34

I mean, let me do a quick... I wanna see a quick Google of Yesteryear on Goodreads. Because I-- my impression is some people fucking love this book, and it w- it seems true. Out of 25,000... I don't know, out of 122,000 ratings, it has a 4.1. And I think, like, the goal on Goodreads is four and up, you know? And The Other Valley, the one that I pushed myself through and liked the ending, that was three-something. I think he had, like, a 3.87. And not to say that these are accurate, but, like, I think there is a reason that Yesteryear is so popular and, you know, some of our taste as writers is going to really influence what's a fun book to read.

Krisserin 29:24

Well, you say "The Other Valley" was kind of a grind. I hear-- From what I hear of "YesterYear," people get through it really quickly. People

Kelton 29:31

Yeah, I mean...

Krisserin 29:32

know what's gonna ha- everyone wants to know how, like, how is it that she woke up in this time, you know? Like,

Kelton 29:38

Does it,

Krisserin 29:39

it?

Kelton 29:40

does it explain that?

Krisserin 29:42

The ending does,

Kelton 29:44

Okay. Okay. At least something does.

Krisserin 29:47

I don't think I would've needed to know. If it was written well enough, I wouldn't have cared. I feel like to your point, if it was, if the life she was living was well-painted the-- Also, the character doesn't change. Like, her arc is nonexistent from what

Kelton 30:04

Yeah.

Krisserin 30:05

She's as terrible

Kelton 30:06

Yeah

Krisserin 30:06

as she is in the end. no growth there. So I think that if there had been, people probably wouldn't care as much to understand why. They f- you hyper-fixate on the why because you wanna know, like What was the reason for her to, to go through this, you know? Um, I... If anyone who's listening to this podcast has read this book and liked it, please email us and tell us at officialpenpalspod@gmail.com and tell us what about it you liked.

Kelton 30:36

I mean, I think I have to read it. I think I have to read it now. I was just, uh, you know, it's like, uh, you're a billionth on the wait list, and she has a movie deal, so I didn't feel like I needed to purchase this book. So I was just waiting until the hype died down to get it from the library.

Krisserin 30:52

Yeah.

Kelton 30:53

But, now it seems like I just need to get it on, uh, like Libby or something and read it on my iPad, which I disdain, but I will do it to participate in the discourse.

Krisserin 31:05

Libby's also gonna be like, "You're 150th in line for this novel." I bought it because I needed to read it for this trip, and I

Kelton 31:11

Yeah.

Krisserin 31:12

see if I could return it. That's how much I disliked it. I think read a certain percentage of the book, you can't return it, anymore, and I think I got too far into it for it to qualify, but I was very mad. I was like, "I don't wanna give this woman my money." I feel bad. I c- I, again, congrats to the writer for her success, but I'm bitter about

Kelton 31:36

Yeah. I mean, it's such a good concept, so if anything... if nothing else, she's an amazing concept creator.

Krisserin 31:43

It's true. have

Kelton 31:46

I did have vertigo. I also... You know, I just, I thought I had, like, really articulated exactly what I wanted, and I didn't get either of those things, and so I was just like a little bit of a, a bitter bunny even though, you know, the day was spent, like, taking care of me. There were just, like, two things that I was f- I was really looking forward to. So I, you know, I just... that's a bummer. But, so yeah, it's... I don't know. Things have just been, like, not-

Krisserin 32:20

had vertigo

Kelton 32:20

Feeling amazing lately, and I'm just trying to look toward June as a, like, a clearing.

Krisserin 32:28

Mother's Day.

Kelton 32:29

a- and, uh, now my windows are clear, so I'm really happy about that. That was, like, one of those chores that we were just kind of like, you know, always arguing that, like, we could do it ourselves. And I was like, "Well, uh, but why?" Like, we're at a point now where, like, it's a huge chore. It's way faster for people who have the right ladders and the... know what they're doing. And, like, it took them, like, an hour to clean the whole front of the house. The whole front of this cabin is windows. It's like a typical A-frame cabin in that way. And so, like, having someone else do that,

Krisserin 33:06

an

Kelton 33:07

yeah, totally, it was super fast, and it was, like, worth every penny, especially because, um, normally you have to pay them a $200 service fee to come here, but because they were already here, he just waived it.

Krisserin 33:22

Amazing.

Kelton 33:24

And I was like, "Oh, you're a dream. You're a god amongst men, and you have a corgi. Like, like, you're a good person. I appreciate your presence in this valley."

Krisserin 33:35

Well now you know to work with your neighbors to coordinate, to do it

Kelton 33:40

Totally.

Krisserin 33:41

Yeah.

Kelton 33:42

And I did, I picked up two books I wasn't expecting from the library that I'd been on hold for for ages. Um, I'm not sure how to pronounce this. Piranesi by Susanna Clarke.

Krisserin 33:54

Yep.

Kelton 33:55

Um, is that right? And I started that yesterday, and then I also got... Yeah, that's wh- I mean, that's what everybody says, so, um, and then I got Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Deniman.

Krisserin 34:08

nice.

Kelton 34:08

So these are two books that I have, like, really been anticipating. If I really love either of them, I'm definitely gonna buy them to add to my library. But, like, I've just been trying to focusing on reading and, like, giving myself the grace to, not write the newsletter. It's so nice. It's so nice just taking a break and not looking at, like, are people unsubscribing? I'm like, it doesn't fucking matter. Like, don't worry about it. Like, I think that's, like, a, just a big part of, like, being a, a writer is, like, you have to, you have to let your system recuperate sometimes. You have to do other shit, and, like, I haven't been able to, like, go out and do things as much as I wanted for inspiration since the illnesses, but, hopefully the end of May is a little more forgiving. And I've ha- I had some pretty good, client news recently too, so, that's nice.

Krisserin 34:58

healthcare-related client news?

Kelton 35:01

Yeah, I have healthcare. I got my hours extended, so, you know, that means I have a daycare FSA. It means I have healthcare. It means I have a 401. Like, all of these things that weren't available to me. But it just is, it's really nice to have a lot of that stuff built in as infrastructure to a role. And I have, you know, one client was going away, and, like, r- right a- right when they said that, I got an email from another client asking if I wanted to be on a long-term contract. So that stuff, it feels... That stuff has been feeling really good. You know, eventually I'll wean this child and life will change.

Krisserin 35:40

Well, I'm interested to hear how you feel about "Dungeon Crawler Carl," 'cause Kennette did not like it.

Kelton 35:46

No.

Krisserin 35:47

She it was too gruesome.

Kelton 35:49

Oh, I think I'll love that.

Krisserin 35:53

I don't

Kelton 35:53

I'm, I, I'm pretty into the gruesome writing. I find it, um...

Krisserin 35:57

mind it. I think the way it was done in this book in particular, she was kind of turned off by, so

Kelton 36:02

Hmm. Okay. All right. Well, I'll be keeping Kenna in mind as I read it. I am reading Piranesi first. And so I will keep you posted. But, reading, reading life is rich.

Krisserin 36:14

Okay. Love that.

Kelton 36:15

Uh...

Krisserin 36:16

Yeah, I tried to read in the hospital, and it just like...

Kelton 36:19

No way.

Krisserin 36:21

was not hitting, you know?

Kelton 36:22

No, y-

Krisserin 36:24

of episodes of, "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills." Also, this-- There are

Kelton 36:30

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 36:33

Elle Kennedy that are all, college, romance novels about these, hockey players that live in a house together at this, know, fictional college. And they were fun books to read, and Amazon Prime just came out with the series for the first book, and I've been watching it, and it's pretty good. It's

Kelton 36:50

it called?

Krisserin 36:51

"Off Campus."

Kelton 36:53

Oh, I thought I was gonna guess because I keep seeing clips of it in my Explore feed, and I'm like, I don't currently have a Prime account 'cause I'm a snob. But, I am... Eventually, we are gonna get a Prime account so we can watch the rest of Fallout, but we're waiting, like, for a few years until the series is done.

Krisserin 37:11

I feel you on that. but yeah, it's on, Amazon Prime. I'm really enjoying it. I, I think the acting's really well done, and I think Amazon, as much as we hate Amazon, did "Project Hail Mary" also. I think that they're doing some good, original content,

Kelton 37:26

but they also canceled, what was that Lady Jane Grey show? And I loved that show, and they were like, "One season." I'm, I'm sorry, but you actually should just... I mean, the, the people who did watch it were voracious. There was no advertising for it. It was so good. Ugh, and I'm, like, so sad about

Krisserin 37:47

Yeah, that was a

Kelton 37:47

it.

Krisserin 37:48

It was a great concept. You know what really pisses me off about Hollywood is like, I'm like,

Kelton 37:52

Hmm.

Krisserin 37:52

like this actor. They're so interesting," and they're all fucking nepo babies. And I'm like, "Ugh, I like them less now. I

Kelton 38:01

Yeah, I mean, inevitably. I- it's just, like, you know, I think about that sometimes with writing, where it's like I came to writing really late professionally as, like, a, in the creative aspect. I did it most of my career, but, like, I was just, you know, taught and believed and showcased that there was not a way to make money from art, and I just had no one even around me that, who exemplified that lifestyle. And so it didn't seem possible until I had diversified my own life enough to see it. So, like, even just being around those people, like, to, like, see that it's possible, and I try to, like, just dismiss my age when I think about writing, where it's like, yeah, I mean, you've only been doing this truly for your own sake creatively, like thinking it's an art option for, like, maybe 10 years. So, and the, you know, getting that leg up. And it's also, like, I understand. It's like you grow up in a family of, like, a director and an actor. It's like, yeah, most of those kids are gonna wanna be in the industry that they've, you know, grown up around. And so I, I feel bad being like, "Oh, good for you." 'Cause it's like if I had literary parents who were like, "You know, you should w- you should turn this into a book," when I was, like, 17, you know, it would've been bad, but it would've been encouragement in that direction. I would've had more time to, like, work on my craft, and I wouldn't want people to be like, "Oh, good job." You know, it's, it's tough 'cause, like, these people are following their dreams, and they just happen to be, like, attractive and well-connected.

Krisserin 39:36

I listened to Lisa Rinna's audiobook, which was... It was good in the beginning, and then it got really repetitive at the end. But, you know, her daughter is a supermodel, and I was like, "Yeah, of course she's a supermodel." Her parents are Lisa Rinna and Harry Hamlin, and they're individually beautiful people. And of course, so their child is gonna be fucking gorgeous. you know, that nepo babies, they get opportunities that you and I would never get

Kelton 40:01

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 40:01

age. They still have to do the work. They still have

Kelton 40:03

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 40:04

you know, work hard to become good at their craft, but they get a lot of opportunity to try So

Kelton 40:11

Totally. And

Krisserin 40:12

buddies about it, but

Kelton 40:14

it's like, like you're saying with like Lisa Rinna, it's like sometimes it's just genes. Like when athletes' kids become athletes, it's like, well they s- they still have to be able to kick a field goal, you know? Like they're not just getting on the team because their dad was. And I think it feels really different, in acting and in music and in writing, like those more subjective crafts, where it's like you having the access to the doorway, having an introduction is the part that really matters. And that then, then it just feels like, "Oh, God."

Krisserin 40:47

Yeah. Well, 'cause I mean, I was an athlete, and I think that I... A perfect example of that, where I had a lot of natural talent, but not the work ethic for it. I feel like athletes have a very specific mindset. It's very d- it's not mine. don't own it at all. You have to be really dedicated and really obsessive about wanting to be good at what you

Kelton 41:09

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 41:10

That's how you become a good athlete. Same with, goes with writers, but, you know, say your parents were athletes, it doesn't guarantee you. You still have to perform. Like, you have to

Kelton 41:20

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 41:21

the best. You have to be the fastest. You gotta jump the highest. Um, and no amount of connections is gonna get you that gold medal, But speaking of

Kelton 41:30

Let's... Yeah, let's talk about

Krisserin 41:33

our efforts

Kelton 41:33

goals. Goals. I don't know. I mean, I still think that I am in a rehabilitating phase. I, I just, I know like I wanna like accomplish a lot on the, for the sake of this podcast and like,

Krisserin 41:50

gonna

Kelton 41:50

you know, me being a writer

Krisserin 41:52

fun? Can

Kelton 41:53

but I also recognize that, things have been kind of hard, and I don't have my normal chutzpah, and I, I don't really wanna have a goal about writing. I wanna have a goal that's similar to last week's where it's just like, have a little fun, do something a little strange, like go for a run. Yeah, can we do something fun? what does that look like as a goal though? You know, I- that is one of my core things about living in the middle of nowhere that is a little challenging. You sent me this very cute list earlier in the week about, like, easy ways to have fun, and, my brain was like, "Well, I can't do this one because this is closed, and I can't do this one 'cause this is closed. I can't do this one 'cause it doesn't exist." And so, you know, that'll get easier as off-season wanes, but, like, even the bookstore here is closed, for off-season. Um, I, uh... So, I've- my options are limited.

Krisserin 42:47

You know what I was thinking? I know you have a lot of books that you're gonna be reading, but-- and this isn't exactly the definition of fun. What about reading some poetry? Because it's just a poem. It's pl- it's like one page, you know?

Kelton 43:06

Yeah, I mean...

Krisserin 43:07

I don't know how somehow I got like, I think I must have liked one piece of content that was a poem on TikTok, and now I'm getting a lot of poetry delivered to me, and I'm like, you know, um, I'm like, "I don't..." But I find reading short stories and poetry is quite inspiring, and they're s-

Kelton 43:25

I don't. Um, You know what I actually might be, uh, interested in reading? I think I might, um, take a page from Kate Flanders' book and read some middle grade fiction. I think, doing something really low stakes. Poetry, it's like... I just, it's f- it's, for me, it's like going to the modern art museum, where I'm like, "Mm.

Krisserin 43:58

You don't like modern

Kelton 43:59

Mm. Art. Mm."

Krisserin 44:03

You're so funny.

Kelton 44:05

You know, I, it's, it, it is intellectually something I can appreciate, but that's the thing is I'm not looking for something I can intellectually appreciate this week. I'm looking for something that smooths my brain and pets it like a little, like a little rabbit.

Krisserin 44:21

you should watch "Off Campus" on Amazon Prime.

Kelton 44:23

I think what I am going to do is spend a lot... Oh my God, uh, we're not watching TV. The TV's in the closet, so, um, I, uh, I do think that it's time for me to just spend some more time in the woods and, uh, read some, like, just warm and jolly shit I mean, the cat shelter book truly was like, it just felt like, it felt like someone just like giving me like a genuine hug and being like, "It's, it's okay. You'll be who you remember yourself to be soon. She's there. Like, give it a, give it a second." But yeah, I just, I feel, I feel very far removed from who I was like six months ago, which is annoying.

Krisserin 45:06

Yeah. I, I feel that. I, I just feel like my body is, is trying to tell me something about how I've been operating. I had seven hours and 45 minutes of non-restorative sleep last night. I like, "Fuck you. What the fuck?" Okay. So you're, gonna read some middle grade fiction. You've got two books out from the library. When are you gonna get mil- middle grade fiction?

Kelton 45:32

Well, I th- I think I need to look up some books. I don't really know much about that genre, so I need to spend some time thinking about what it is I wanna read. Um, I am really excited about books I do have to read. I still really wanna read, I think it's Katherine Arden's The Bear and the Nightingale. I keep asking the bookstore to stock it, but obviously they're closed, so I'm waiting. And I think a couple of art projects might be good for me.

Krisserin 45:59

Yeah.

Kelton 46:00

so, uh,

Krisserin 46:02

Hmm.

Kelton 46:06

guidebook to, uh, fauna, and I was just opening to a random page and drawing that animal, and I found that really satisfying. Um, but I, I, in my organization of the upstairs, I came across all my paint supplies, and I was like, "Maybe it's time to do a little painting again." Um, you know, I have, I have some time when the child is at daycare when he's well that I could do that, so I think an art project is in my future.

Krisserin 46:37

Love that. I love that. One middle grade fiction book that I, I recommend to everyone is "The Ogress and the Orphans" by Kelly Barnhill. It is so freaking well-written, the chapters are really short. Um, so it's definitely one you can keep on your kit- kitchen counter and, like, read

Kelton 46:55

Okay.

Krisserin 46:56

snippets. This is the one that has, um, multiple POVs, including the crows.

Kelton 47:02

Oh, okay. All right. I'll just get... I'll get that one.

Krisserin 47:06

highly of themselves, which I

Kelton 47:08

Oh, well, as they should. They're an incredible species.

Krisserin 47:11

There's a chapter told from the perspective of the rock that lives in the middle of the city, of the town.

Kelton 47:17

Okay. Well, I'm kind of obsessed with this book already, so

Krisserin 47:20

Yeah. Yeah, it's really, really well-written. It is an incredible book. I feel like when you think middle grade fiction, you think of things that are a little bit more contemporary stories that, are relevant to kids that age. But this book is a fantasy book that is for middle graders that is just remarkable. I think every adult should read it. Um, okay. Well, I, uh, don't have any goals for the week.

Kelton 47:45

Yeah, but your goal is also to take care of yourself since you're checked out of a hospital into a Best Western in Kansas. Like, I think that...

Krisserin 47:53

I'm in Missouri, okay? I'm in

Kelton 47:55

Okay. All right. Excuse me, excuse me. Missouri. Whoa, a lot better. Home of my worst ex-boyfriend. But I think you could find a way to take care of yourself.

Krisserin 48:05

ex-boyfriend. That is funny. I will tell you, though, St. Louis is such a beautiful town, so anyone is listening from Missouri or St. Louis, I was so incr-incredibly impressed with how beautiful the architecture is and the nature. And I went to the, um, museum, the Missouri History Museum while I was there, um, kind of a fucked up place,

Kelton 48:30

Yeah.

Krisserin 48:30

racially speaking. Like I learned about the World's

Kelton 48:33

God.

Krisserin 48:37

like, "Look at, we're, we're civilizing these savages from the Philippines to support the colonialism we were doing there."

Kelton 48:46

White people.

Krisserin 48:47

I was like, "Cool. Cool, cool, cool, cool." Um, but I'm-- Missouri, I'm very impressed with how beautiful it is

Kelton 48:55

It's supposed to be really beautiful nature.

Krisserin 48:58

Mm-hmm. It's like a lot of really pretty old trees. It's flat as fuck, though. I don't like

Kelton 49:05

You need to, like, see

Krisserin 49:06

They weird me out. I need mountains,

Kelton 49:09

where you can

Krisserin 49:09

the background, you know?

Kelton 49:11

escape to.

Krisserin 49:16

I think mountains put life into perspective, you know? Boyan's from a mountain area in Bulgaria, and they say that, "Mountains grow men and valleys grow pumpkins."

Kelton 49:27

Wow, okay. Says a lot about the Bulgarians.

Krisserin 49:32

Listen,

Kelton 49:33

Okay, but what is your,

Krisserin 49:35

of years of Ottoman rule

Kelton 49:37

what is your goal?

Krisserin 49:40

To, to keep, uh, distracting you from the fact that I haven't set one yet, that's my goal. You give me a goal.

Kelton 49:47

When do you get home? You gonna be home this week?

Krisserin 49:50

Not until next Monday.

Kelton 49:52

Are your evenings all booked there?

Krisserin 49:56

Once I get to Vegas on Friday, I'm gonna have a very full, busy weekend with my friends, so.

Kelton 50:01

Could you go out to the movies while you're there?

Krisserin 50:04

I... I mean, I only have tonight, really. I would have to

Kelton 50:07

Oh, if that's it. Well, that's a little much.

Krisserin 50:10

just, like, stay in bed and watch something, maybe order room service or... I don't even know if they have room service at this hotel to be honest with

Kelton 50:18

Well, I'm sure you can get... You could get DoorDashed to this hotel from something that you really like.

Krisserin 50:24

Yeah.

Kelton 50:25

so I think tonight's order of business is a DoorDash feast.

Krisserin 50:31

Okay.

Kelton 50:32

Or, you know, Uber Eats, whatever your corporate evil system of choice is.

Krisserin 50:37

GrubHub.

Kelton 50:39

Um,

Krisserin 50:40

Maybe some Asian food of

Kelton 50:42

yeah. Whoa.

Krisserin 50:43

I had like a 12-out, 14-ounce steak for dinner last night. I didn't even finish it. I felt horrible. I was like, I couldn't eat anymore.

Kelton 50:51

Oh, man. Um, what else could you do that's really nice for yourself? I'm trying to think of things that, like, you don't prioritize. Like, I'm not talking about housewives. Like, you have enough of that in your life. Um, what's, like, a real salve? Could you book some kind of spa treatment in Vegas?

Krisserin 51:12

I could do that.

Kelton 51:14

Why don't you book some kind of, like, nice spa treatment?

Krisserin 51:17

Okay.

Kelton 51:18

coming up for myself. I, like, weeks ago, booked myself a facial, and that's gonna happen on Monday.

Krisserin 51:24

Oh, nice.

Kelton 51:26

yeah.

Krisserin 51:27

Yeah, I'll see if, I see if anyone... 'Cause, a lot of my friends are going to see No Doubt at the Sphere, and I didn't wanna do that.

Kelton 51:33

No Doubt?

Krisserin 51:34

Yeah.

Kelton 51:35

Yeah, but Gwen Stefani's a...

Krisserin 51:38

She's a

Kelton 51:39

Yeah.

Krisserin 51:40

Um, and the

Kelton 51:41

a real punk traitor. Do it.

Krisserin 51:47

don't need to spend that money. I'd rather go shopping." So that was the plan was we were gonna go vintage shopping in Vegas while the girls are going to that show. But I could in a spa treatment.

Kelton 51:58

Do it. Spa treatment. Listen, I-- it's like f- if we're truly burnt out and overwhelmed and not inspired, and, like, have the time and the cash to do something nice for ourselves, like, I really think that we should do that. We should practice what we're preaching at each other, and, and take care and take heed.

Krisserin 52:18

All right. Well, everyone else who's listening, some time this next week to do something nice for yourself as well. If you don't have the funds to book a spa treatment, go on a nice walk, listen to a fun, book. Do something kind

Kelton 52:35

text, text a friend and ask them to go through your wardrobe. I mean, it's just like, I-- listen, I would have you over here in a heartbeat if you lived here, but

Krisserin 52:42

I would do it.

Kelton 52:45

I need someone ruthless, and I know that you would be.

Krisserin 52:47

I would be. I love purging closets. And yeah, Text one of your friends if you didn't do it last week. Ask them how their writing's going. In the meantime, email us at officialpenpalspod@gmail.com. Follow us on all of the platforms at Pen Pals Pod. You can follow Kelton at keltonkin on Instagram. You can read her writing at shangerlogs.substack.com. Learn about all of her courses at keltonwrite.com. You can follow me on TikTok at krisserin, or read my writing at krisserin.substack.com. And if you wouldn't mind leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen, we'd appreciate that too.

Kelton 53:27

Go leave your favorite author some reviews on Goodreads. Give 'em a boost.

Krisserin 53:31

Yeah, 'cause, uh, 4.1 seems a little high for yesteryear, if I'm being

Kelton 53:37

Yeah.

Krisserin 53:39

But...

Kelton 53:39

Mystical Cat Shelter is currently at 3.94, so I'm determined to get Heather Fawcett up into the fours, 'cause that book is adorable.

Krisserin 53:48

I have homework for you. You need to write to her and tell her how much you loved her book.

Kelton 53:53

I am going to, actually. I have a tab open on my computer with a DM to her on Sub Stack.

Krisserin 53:59

Good. Good, good, good. And, and you should post about it on Substack too, with a picture of

Kelton 54:05

Yeah.

Krisserin 54:05

much you loved it. Yeah.

Kelton 54:07

I will. That's smart. Okay.

Krisserin 54:08

you guys will be BFFs.

Kelton 54:11

All I need is one more person to tell me to get a cat, you know? One more person.

Krisserin 54:16

One more person. All right, everyone. Thanks for listening this week. Sorry we weren't more uplifting, but you know, sometimes that's the way life goes.

Kelton 54:25

Sometimes that's it. Slide into our inbox. We only have a few episodes left for this season, and we'd love to answer any questions you have about your projects or, anything getting in your way. We love having you here. So happy writing

Krisserin 54:38

Happy writing