The Human-Savvy Podcast
In this podcast, leaders worldwide can learn how to develop their emotional intelligence, interpersonal skills and... "speak Human".
In each episode, Dr Liv Oginska - an international speaker, psychologist, veterinary surgeon and emotional intelligence expert - meets Dr Emma McConnell - a specialist in Equine Medicine, university lecturer, and entrepreneur - and they answer questions about the people-related leadership challenges that were sent to Human-Savvy from leaders around the globe.
Dr Liv shares practical advice on managing challenging team dynamics and showing up as charismatic, highly emotionally skilled leaders and managers. Dr Emma brings in the leader's perspective, asks deepening questions, and shares her experience of being a manager in both a large organisation and a start-up.
Listeners will learn how to bolster team performance and create trust, create sustainable careers, navigate conflicts between coworkers, manage incivility and so much more.
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The Human-Savvy Podcast
Episode 6 - "The 3-minute De-Monstering Method for managing venting"
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Ever notice how one person's complaint can spread through your team like wildfire? You're not alone. Workplace venting is a natural human behaviour that serves important psychological functions, but when left unchecked, it can create an avalanche of negativity that drains everyone's energy.
This episode provides a practical framework for transforming these potentially toxic interactions into productive problem-solving sessions.
In this episode, Dr Liv and Dr Emma explore the science behind why we vent – from seeking emotional release to building connection with others – and reveal how leaders can respond effectively without becoming emotional sponges.
The centrepiece of our discussion is the "3-minute De-monstering Method," a structured approach that gives people space to express their feelings while guiding them toward solutions. You'll learn exactly what to say when someone appears in your doorway ready to unload their frustrations, how to validate emotions without amplifying negativity, and specific questions that activate the logical brain after emotional venting.
(click here to contact / learn more about Dr Liv Oginska >>> )
(click here to contact / learn more about Dr Emma McConnell >>> )
In this episode, you will discover how to:
- Manage venting and complaining in the team while making everyone feel heard
- Protect your own energy as a leader
Whether you're a team leader drowning in complaints or someone who wants to vent more productively, these evidence-based techniques will transform how you approach difficult workplace conversations.
Click here to find more leadership resources connected to this episode >>>>
THE ADVANCED LEADERSHIP RESOURCE -> How to turn venting into "healthy debrief"
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Please send your letter to info@behumansavvy.com with the title "Dear Human-Savvy..." and we promise to fully anonymise it and record an episode entirely devoted to tackling your challenge!
Also, we deeply value your feedback. Please email us your thoughts, ideas and suggestions to info@behumansavvy.com or follow and message Dr Liv on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/olivia-liv-oginska-53b345200
Introduction to Venting Problem
Speaker 1Hi, emma, good to see you. How are you doing?
Speaker 2Hello, I'm very well, thank you. How are you?
Speaker 1I'm good and I'm curious about the next letter that we receive from one of the listeners? Tell me.
Speaker 2Yes, okay, here we go. Dear Human Savvy, I wanted to ask you about venting. I'm a leader in a relatively small, family-owned organization and, even though my team is fantastic, I sometimes feel that all they do in between their tasks is complain. Nearly every day, someone will come to my office to ask me something, as they frame it, and I accidentally end up in a half an hour venting session. They complain about our clients, sometimes their colleagues, often about the other branches of our organization. I want to be helpful to them and I do my best to listen and help, but I'm not sure that I'm actually helping because, no matter what I tell them, nothing changes. What is even worse is that after such a session, I feel more negative, distracted and like I'm failing as a leader, because people seem so discontent. What is it about venting in our team? Why do we do so much of it and why does it make me feel like crap? Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2I think probably any one of us could have written that letter. To be honest, I think that's such a common occurrence, so I can't wait to hear your insights.
Speaker 1Oh, I love that we got a letter like that, because it is so common, it is so so, so popular. Yeah, 100%. A lot of people complain. Emma, do you complain?
Speaker 2Of course I'm human. I love the pause that you took before answering. I mean, sometimes we might try and mask it or disguise it as debriefing, but absolutely of course I vent 100%. My colleagues will definitely attest to that.
Speaker 1I also complain. So don't worry. I asked you that question because I feel like it's important for people to know that it is extremely common, but it's also very, very normal. It does have a negative impact, and I'm very happy to talk about that in detail. There's so much beautiful research on that, but it is a part of our human nature and it's so interesting because, when we think about it, some of the scholars say that even 90% of the conversations that we have between one another at work, at home, they serve describing what we've been through, so the actions of other people, what we did, but also how it impacted us emotionally, how it made us feel, and the whole goal of communication is to let other people know how we perceive the certain situation so we can build some sort of mindset around. You know groups of people, of situations, of the tasks at work, so it helps us to build that worldview. So it's very important, right? If we don't have it, it wouldn't be great, we wouldn't be able to build a society, right?
Why We Complain and Vent
Speaker 1Yeah, oh, for sure, for sure, okay so we know that it has a reason that and we know it's normal. Why does it feel so good? Let's talk about that, because I think it is super cool to understand why it makes us so good, but also it helps us to then flip it on its head and see how we can make it better. So it's actually not harmful. It doesn't spread negativity when it's unnecessary. What do you think, Emma? Why do you think it's actually not harmful? It doesn't spread negativity when it's unnecessary. What do you think, Emma? Why do you think it's so good?
Speaker 2I guess you have to think about it from both perspectives. So I think it makes the person doing the venting feel good, but it doesn't necessarily make the person being vented to feel good. The person being vented to feel good, and I think in the moment, I would say the majority of us are all very guilty of not thinking about the impact on the receiver. You know the kind of like what do you call it? Sounding board, if you like. You know we think, oh, they're just our sounding board. No, no, you're just like unleashing, like your vomit of words onto someone who maybe doesn't actually want that, like maybe they're busy doing a task. You know, I think we kind of forget about the other person and I think that's something we probably need to remind ourselves of, that there is a second person involved so why do we do that?
Speaker 1why do we think? Why is it so pleasant to us in that moment, like logically thinking, we all know that it's not probably great for them, so why?
Speaker 2Well, I guess it's because we are ultimately selfish people and it's all about, like we want to feel better, right? So, again, we're human, that's human nature, right? So? But I guess it's for the person doing the venting, it's a release, isn't it? It's like we're getting rid of, we're unburdening ourselves of, this stuff that maybe we've been carrying around. So we're great because now we're lighter for it, we've released it, you know, but then that poor person is now burdened with it.
Speaker 1We release the steam, don't we? We call it let's just release some steam. I just needed to let you know. You know, when we call a friend, it's like oh my God, you won't believe what she did and we just release those monsters, that verbal diarrhea, like you said. And that is true, that verbal diarrhea, like you said, and that is true.
Speaker 1There is a big sense of relief when we do it. But there are a few different functions of bending. So one of those is definitely that it's called intrapersonal reason, which means that it gives us relief. We can release some steam at the beginning for a moment. It it's very temporary. There are other reasons as well. So interpersonal we want to be listened to, we want to feel somebody's empathy, we want to connect with them, we want to know that we are not alone. With that thought, I'm sure you had a moment at some point that you realized that. You know what? Maybe it's just me going crazy or I don't know what's wrong with my head, but I need to confirm with someone whether I am losing my marbles or that is actually the truth. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2yes, yes, absolutely yeah. I guess you kind of are looking for that solidarity, aren't you like? It's not just me, and I guess it's also you feel like you're maybe bonding with that other person too over shared grievances perhaps yes, yeah, yeah.
Four Functions of Venting
Speaker 1So we feel that bond in that moment, but also we exchange information and that is important because there is that cognitive part to it that we want to discuss certain topic, issue, issue, challenge. We seek understanding to a degree, we want to grasp what is actually happening. So it has that informative function as well, especially when it's done in a more calm way. And this is important because we can see that this could be useful. Venting could be useful if it was done differently. So let's hold our thought, we're gonna go back to it. How to do it. Yes, and there's a fourth element to it.
Speaker 1The fourth reason is that sometimes we care about other people and we kind of want to warn them. If we had a bad experience with an employee, with a boss, we went through some really shitty moment with them we want to let others know you know what? You should be careful. You should be careful with John because he's in really bad moods Today. He yelled at me, so do not, don't even go near him today. So that is that social aspect where we want to inform others as well. So those four reasons, they're very, very important there.
Speaker 2Do you see that? Yeah, that makes sense. Others, oh yeah absolutely Okay.
Speaker 1So we know that these are the reasons that push us towards adventing and even though we logically know that it's not great for everyone, we keep doing it and that is very much ingrained in our human nature.
Speaker 1So what actually happens and this is also cool to understand in that process is you mentioned a few elements there, which is really beautiful, that you and other leaders definitely know about it. But what science tells us is that when we externalize our very negative and pleasant emotions to another person, our very negative, unpleasant emotions to another person, like you said, emma, that person might not have those emotions at the beginning. They observe them in us and because we are built to mimic one another, we kind of absorb ever so slightly what is happening for that person in front of us. So through that mirroring, we have emotions, new emotions, more unpleasant emotions as well when we are a listener. And that doesn't stop with us, right? Because if I feel very negatively charged, I leave the meeting with you. When you vent it to me, I will go somewhere else and we'll have another conversation with someone else, either repeat that story or contribute with my own. And that is called that emotional contagion, that spread of negativity.
Emotional Contagion in Teams
Speaker 1So, there is an impact on the whole group, like what do you think? Like first thing comes to your mind what do you think?
Speaker 2happens, then Well, I guess I guess you can like hearing you say that you can kind of appreciate how that sort of spreads throughout a team. You know like often it'll start maybe with one interaction and then also potentially how stuff gets blown out of proportion to. You know, like a little bit like Chinese whispers, because someone vents to someone and then someone's like oh my gosh, like did you hear? Like oh my God. You know like that happens all the time.
Speaker 1All the time, and from so many, so many sources, right, so it's not only one person. It can be a person who's very dominant with that negative vibe, kind of when they bring it into the team, but very often what happens? It comes from many different angles and many different sources, so it it accumulates and all together we get avalanched with that negativity. It's hard to find the surface, like when we are deep under that dirty, ugly yellow snow and we cannot find our way out.
Speaker 2But that's also what we're seeing today 100%, and I guess I can certainly think of times you know in my experience, where that avalanche has occurred and it actually becomes really detrimental to the team. And again, it's usually like in my experience, it's usually maybe something that's actually not so major or like not necessarily so important, that just kind of gets blown out of proportion. So I guess I agree with you that there's definitely a role for it, there's obviously benefits to it, but it can also be quite a negative thing, right? So again, I guess it's all about how do you do it in the right way or the better way. So I guess you're going to tell us how to do that.
Speaker 1Yes, I can give you my bit of a recipe for that, and I just wanted to go back to our dear listener, the author of this letter, for a second Good news for that person is that because those people come to that leader there, must be a reason behind it and the reason is that they trust that person and that's great when they feel psychologically safe to come to them and say, okay, this is wrong, this is bad, this is something that needs to change.
Speaker 1So that is very good news for that person. Now, leader is in a very difficult situation, which was actually described by the author of this letter, that they try to help. But if we are not sure how to do it, if we're not trained in doing it properly, then we can accidentally make it worse and perpetuate that negative contagion. So it's really important to have a bit of a guidance how to do it.
Speaker 2So are you ready.
Speaker 1Emma, we can do that like a bit of a guidance.
Speaker 2Yes, but could I just quickly ask something because I feel like people would be interested to hear? Could you maybe just very quickly describe or explain how you could inadvertently make things worse? I think it's probably important to highlight, because I'm sure we've all done it.
Speaker 1Yes, yes, absolutely. So. There's so many different ways. There's so many different ways to screw up things, honestly, not only for the leaders, for the parents, oh goodness, yeah, for anyone, really, okay. So imagine that you've got a leader, so we are employees in one team together, we are teammates, and we've got a leader. So we are employees in one team together, we are teammates, and we've got our leader. So both of us are under the care of that leader. And I come to that leader to complain about you, emma, and that leader has the best intention of supporting me, validating my emotions, and they say oh gosh, you're right. Gosh, what she did, it was actually horrible. Oh, I don't know how she could have done that. Oh gosh, I'll try to resolve it. So leave it with me and I will talk to her. Like it sounds very supportive in that moment, but what that leader did is they. They put us in the opposition to one another.
Speaker 1So we are still kind of against one another. They didn't open the space for understanding. They validated that emotion and they amplified that emotion.
Speaker 2So if that was me, right coming to them.
Speaker 1I will end up feeling, okay, they understand me, but I'm still very much in conflict with you.
Speaker 2So that's one way that they can square it up makes sense.
Speaker 1Intentions were really good, but it didn't work well yes, yeah, they're small.
Speaker 2Okay, that's good, that makes things a little clearer, thank you.
Speaker 1I'm gonna give you one more. Do you know, I'm just thinking about? It's good for the leaders to hear that. So what very often happens is when someone comes to you and they want to vent, and you, as a leader, you want to protect yourself because you know that you're going to end up really drained we might accidentally shut that person down so we do not listen to them. We might say something very short, a bit abrupt. We might say things along the lines of come on, you can handle it yourself, you're an adult or you've been here for many years. I know we've got this, but it's very short and we don't even acknowledge that those emotions are important for that person. So we went the other way around. So, instead of validating emotions, we minimize those. We ignore those emotions and again, intention was very good, because we wanted to protect ourselves in order to do our job well for other people in the team. You can see, both extremes are not great.
Speaker 2Yes, yeah, absolutely. I think they are great examples. Yeah, thank thank you, that's all right good.
Speaker 1I could bring you so so many different examples. I'm very happy for us to record a separate, like little short episode when we talk about all those mistakes that happen during those debrief slash venting sessions. We could definitely do it I love.
Speaker 2Okay, hit us with some guidance.
Healthy Debrief Recipe Introduction
Speaker 1Perfect, okay, so it is a debrief, healthy debrief recipe. In other words, it's the instrumental complaint. So we want to get somewhere through that session when one person externalizes what is really happening for them, those emotions, their expectations, their unmet needs. Imagine that you're my leader, emma, and I come to you to vent about something. Let's say I vent about not feeling appreciated, so I am your head nurse. Let's say, imagine that we work in a medical veterinary profession. I'm a head nurse, and I come to you, my leader, and I tell you Emma, I don't think that people even see how much I do. I don't feel appreciated. They just take it all for granted and I feel horrible. Can we put ourselves in that situation? Yes, so we are there.
Speaker 2We are in that scenario.
Speaker 1So in that moment you as as a leader, you can see that a person comes with a very strong emotion. It is very valid, it is important if we cannot ignore it. But we don't want to make it even bigger. So what we say in that moment, we give them a little bit of a space to say everything that is accumulated inside, and I call it the little quick kind of de-monstering I don't know how to say so. It doesn't sound that horrible. I know it's a terrible word, but I just like this one. It works well for me. So de-monstering, so we set up a timer for three minutes, and I mean that you honestly set the timer in front of them for three minutes.
Speaker 2Wow, okay, and then just say like okay, go for it, go for it, microphone is yours.
Speaker 1Unleash, demonstrate yourself, just blurt it out, and they can say anything that comes to their mind, and we need to highlight that for this person, it's going to be safe. They can swear, they can yell whatever is happening for them, and it's going to be safe. They can swear, they can yell whatever is happening for them and it's going to be very, very good for them emotionally. We keep in mind that we, as a leader, know that this is just the demonstering session, right? Yes, everything is really big in that moment.
Speaker 2Yes, and during the demonstering does the leader? Are they just encouraged to kind of sit there and allow just the three minutes to tick by, with that person doing their thing, and we just sit quietly and listen?
Speaker 1and make notes. That's important. Love that you asked that because, like what am I supposed to do as a leader? Just sit there and stare at them and try not to laugh. That's important. Love that you asked that because, like what am I supposed to? Just just sit there and stare at them and try not to laugh or cry or whatever it is for you.
Speaker 1It's like slowly walk backwards we make notes so we let them know. Do you know what you'll be doing, that huge venting sesh in those three minutes? And I will be making notes because it's important for me to grasp what is actually behind that demonstrating moment. So we observe that person, we make some notes, we listen to them in that very emotionally intelligent way so we try to hear for the sources of pain.
Speaker 1So if I had those three minutes with you, emma, I was that head nurse who feels super unappreciated. I would say things along the lines of there are so many people working with me and then I prepare everything for them and they come in and they don't even say thank you. And you know how much effort I put into it. You know how much I care about the patient safety. I make sure that everything is labeled, everything just looks perfect and those people they literally take it for granted, even though it took me ages. So, as a leader, what you can hear is so many things that this person cares about patient safety. You can hear that they put a lot of effort and time. They have their own techniques to make sure that the patient safety is being supported, like labeling and all those little things. So this is the time to make note of that, because this is going to matter for the outcome of this conversation.
Speaker 2Does it make sense? Yeah, 100%. I'm loving this. This is so good.
Speaker 1Beautiful, okay. So then we validate their emotions and we don't validate them in a way that's going to amplify them or minimize them. It's very simple Saying things like oh my goodness, I can see that you have every right to feel like that in this situation. It is normal to feel like this, it's okay, you have a right to have those emotions. So we normalize it. Yeah, we validate, normalize.
Speaker 1Okay, we validate, normalize and then okay good and then it's time to start gradually, very slowly, analyzing them. So we need to offer to them is it okay that we now shift into understanding what is actually happening? Do you want to move into that mood? They might need more time. They might say you know, I need to go for a walk and come back because I'm actually jittery with emotions, so this is not the right moment. So we ask for their permission and when they're ready, we can step into analyzing and there is many different questions that you can ask as a leader to analyze, to reframe the situation, what's actually happening, to challenge their assumptions, their stories that they told themselves in their heads.
Speaker 2Yes, okay, oh, this is good this is good.
Speaker 1I'm going to give you some examples and then for our listeners, they can find a resource on the website where there's a full description of how to do it for the leader. So there will be help there available.
Speaker 2Oh my gosh, you are so generous with your knowledge.
The De-Monstering Method
Speaker 1Don't worry, it's all good. Today I would like everyone to hear, just like, some examples so they can apply that in many different situations. So the question that they can ask in that situation is very simple what is it that we know for sure in here and what is it that we might be assuming? What is the knowledge gap that is there? What is it that we are missing? Which parts of the story are a bit unclear and we are creating in our head that story? What is within your power to change about this? What would you like to see happening? What would be the ideal outcome? Let's put that in that example. If you feel unappreciated, how would you know that people appreciate? What would you like to see them doing? So, do you see what I'm doing in here?
Speaker 2I'm trying to really understand and, I guess, also trying to encourage them to think about actually, what are they looking for Like, what, like you said, what is the outcome that they're hoping for to get out of this session, instead of it just being a not like without purpose? But you know, like if you're going to expend all this energy, it would be nice to have some sort of outcome at the end of it.
Speaker 1Absolutely. And I think if it's not clear for the people who come to you for the debrief session, it's good to even verbalize that at the very beginning of the session. I'm here to do that debrief with you. You know that you will have that moment to de-monster whatever is there inside, but our goal is to actually come away from this meeting with some sort of solution and a plan. So if it's not obvious, we need to state that we need to tell that person from the beginning again, ask for their permission. Are you happy with that sort of goal that we have in this interaction?
Speaker 1just to make it clear and those questions that the leaders can ask the person, just like you said. You beautifully realize that what is happening here. This person starts thinking, turning on their logical part of the brain. So the chimp chimped out, yelled and screamed. And now we need some solutions, right, so they can come to those.
Speaker 2Love that.
Speaker 1And those questions. There are so many different types and this is what coaching is about, because leaders are coaches and I spend a lot of time with my leaders in the human savvy league and other training opportunities to help them ask the right questions. And once you kind of get the general rule how to do it and you become genuinely curious about the person and you try to imagine their bubble and their perspective, you ask about it. Those questions come to leaders more easily. But there's one that is very important in that situation, which is the question about the power that I already asked you. What is within your power to do in here to take the first step to change the situation? And also, what do you think is in my power? How can I support you in this, so you're not on your own with that situation?
Speaker 2Does it make sense? Mm-hmm? Yes, absolutely. I do have a question and it's kind of a more logistical question because I think for a lot of leaders when they have these interactions they're not necessarily planned or scheduled right. So in the letter our writer has said you know, they just pop into my office to say, can I ask you a question? And then obviously that kind of escalates.
Analyzing and Reframing After Venting
Speaker 2So I think for a lot of leaders it can be really challenging to, especially if you are in the middle of you know like an important task to kind of have that quick mental switch to then put yourself in the right frame of mind to take on all of that stuff from your team member. So I guess the question is are you better to ask the question in that, like I mean, I don't know how you ask someone? Are you about to vent at me? But you know, is it better that you try and schedule some time or you just kind of let it run its course and hopefully you're quick enough to kind of flip things and remember to set the timer and to tell them all those things Like how, logistically, when someone just kind of pops by your office, how do you kind of make that switch or provide the environment for that team member and to get that successful outcome, okay for that team member and to get that successful outcome.
Speaker 1Okay, so I'm going to ask you then question to get to the answer to your question. So, for you, as a leader, what is the thing that you want to provide your team through that conversation done well? What is the goal of having that conversation done well?
Speaker 2If you can prevent that amplification of feelings and prevent this spread the wild fire throughout the team. Obviously that's one of the goals um individually for that person.
Speaker 1How do you want them to feel at the end?
Speaker 2well, you want them to feel supported and that you care about. Know that you care about them.
Speaker 1Absolutely Okay. So when you want to give someone a really good level of care, when you want to support them, is it something that can be done ad hoc, without preparation, in the wrong mindset, or is it something that requires a level of your headspace and energy?
Speaker 2It definitely requires headspace and energy. It definitely requires headspace and energy because you want to be there in the right way for them. Like, I think, what could make things worse if someone does come to you when they are kind of fired up about something and then you just kind of brush them off? I mean, that is not, that's just going to exacerbate the whole situation.
Speaker 1Absolutely Okay, do you think? When someone is very emotional, they kind of even stop for a second to think whether my leader is ready or not to have that conversation?
Speaker 2Definitely not, and I guess that's kind of like. The hard thing is that how do you, I guess, how do you create the environment or set it up for success, I guess?
Speaker 1Okay, so two options for you. Let's say you go to talk to your leader. Which one would you prefer? Would you like them to force themselves into that mindset and headspace and level of energy, into that mindset and headspace and level of energy, so kind of like really force their state and then listen to you? Or would you prefer to hear from them honestly when they describe how they feel at that moment and what they can actually give you in that moment? Which one would you prefer?
Speaker 2The second one. Okay, so when they're honest with you.
Speaker 1Yes, okay, yes. And then I suppose it's again when we are thinking, like you mentioned at the beginning, we are living selfish creatures, right? So when we want to debrief, we want to know. Well, exactly because.
Speaker 2I might not feel the same way tomorrow.
Speaker 1Absolutely Okay. So what it really helps in the situation when the leader is clear with themselves and with the employee that comes to speak to them, clear on how they feel in that moment. So am I in the right headspace to listen to you, to give you what you truly deserve, and this is the second element of clarity, when we explain to them that? Listen, Emma, I can see that this is really bothering you. I can see there is something important you want to tell me. In this very moment. I cannot give you what you deserve. How about you come back in half an hour? I'm going to give you a piece of paper literally write down whatever comes to your mind. It's going to help our meeting as well. When you have your thoughts written down, I promise you I will be here. That's literally in this moment. I cannot give you what you deserve.
Speaker 2I like that To say what you deserve. That's big, because it's true, it's literally true. Yeah, 100, absolutely. Yep, I love that makes sense. Yeah, and I think that's actually like a really kind way to delay that meaning. If you have to, I can just think for myself like a number of situations where I just can't respond in the there and now, and you know whether I mean there's all sorts of reasons right, absolutely, but OK, but that's actually a very good technique. You know, not necessarily just for this instance, but you know you could use that in for many other situations.
Creating Time and Space for Conversations
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, definitely, and there's something else that we can do to prepare the team. So, again, it is like raising kids to a degree that we need to train people around us, including ourselves, about how we do things again, part of the culture. So if we have a meeting at some point, uh, in which we say, guys, I understand that you need to vent, I need to vent sometimes. Talk to them about all the things that we talk about today. Why is it so not helpful? Why is it actually quite detrimental to the culture when that wildfire spreads and sucks out everybody's energy? Give them clarity on that and then say, how about?
Speaker 1We actually are smarter as a team. We do it better. So this is my suggestion how we could do it. You can come to me and I quickly let you know whether I'm in the right headspace to do it, or they could be like a designated soundboard person who is trained how to do it right, and then we all agree whether it works well or not. If that has to be delayed ever, so we also know what to do in that moment. So we have clarity on how we do those things a little so yes, aha, love it.
Speaker 2We love a good sop yes, we do.
Speaker 1And there's one more element to it, very important we need to finish that conversation in a good way, which involves checking with the person how are you feeling right now? Does it all make sense to you? Is there something that you still wish you had told me in that demonstrating moment? Is there still something that borders you? Maybe it's connected to that topic. It's going to influence your actions. What is the worst case scenario? What is going to influence your actions? What is the worst case scenario? What is going to happen if we do nothing after this conversation?
Speaker 1And that is supposed to ignite a bit of a motivation, because people start imagining like, what happens if I never talk to people about how I want to be appreciated? If we go back to that you? You know the head nurse example. Probably it would only perpetuate a problem. She would never feel appreciated. Long-term scenario she would leave because she will be sick of this. Yes, so we need to make them think about it, think bigger picture, and give them the power, the autonomy. Show them that you're really, really capable of doing those things, I can support you. So if you're really really capable of doing those things, I can support you. So if you're feeling okay after this conversation. When do we have another little check-in? How would you like me to check in on you? Should I um, just I don't know um grab you on a corridor, see how you're doing, or do you want to have another meeting with me?
Speaker 2so we have a follow-up line. That's it.
Speaker 1Yes, I was gonna say yeah, oh, boom, okay, just like that, just like I know it sounds easy, I know it's so much harder. Um, if you, dear listeners, have any issues with that, challenges, extra problems or you would like some more advice, you can always reach out to us. This is what those letters are about. People reach out and then we can give you more advice, more support. It is that. So we're here to support everyone with those challenges. How are you feeling, emma?
Speaker 2Yeah, good, I actually learned a lot there. I love it. So I feel I mean there's some really really useful take-home messages there and, yeah, I know for me, I will certainly be implementing some of those strategies. So you know, even just from my side, thank you so much. It's incredibly insightful and, yeah, and very practical, usable information, so I am greatly appreciative of everything you do.
Speaker 1Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. And you guys, if you want to see more of the details of it and a bit of that recipe on the paper, plus some techniques to de-demonster somebody's situation and also to reframe it as a growth and radical responsibility opportunity, the resources will be available there. And in the meantime, going, keep trying, keep practicing until you become a truly, truly demonstering, wonderful human savvy leaders.