The Human-Savvy Podcast
In this podcast, leaders worldwide can learn how to develop their emotional intelligence, interpersonal skills and... "speak Human".
In each episode, Dr Liv Oginska - an international speaker, psychologist, veterinary surgeon and emotional intelligence expert - meets Dr Emma McConnell - a specialist in Equine Medicine, university lecturer, and entrepreneur - and they answer questions about the people-related leadership challenges that were sent to Human-Savvy from leaders around the globe.
Dr Liv shares practical advice on managing challenging team dynamics and showing up as charismatic, highly emotionally skilled leaders and managers. Dr Emma brings in the leader's perspective, asks deepening questions, and shares her experience of being a manager in both a large organisation and a start-up.
Listeners will learn how to bolster team performance and create trust, create sustainable careers, navigate conflicts between coworkers, manage incivility and so much more.
Tune in to get the support that you deserve and take your leadership skills to the next level!
The Human-Savvy Podcast
Episode 9 -"How can I successfully transition from being a colleague to leading the team?"
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Stepping from "one of the team" into a leadership position presents a unique challenge that can leave even the most competent professionals feeling frustrated and confused.
In this episode, Dr Liv and Dr Emma explore this delicate transition through the experience of a newly promoted leader who finds himself trapped in an awkward middle ground – his colleagues who once treated him "like a little brother" now ignore his directives while simultaneously treating him as their conduit to upper management..
(click here to contact / learn more about Dr Liv Oginska >>> )
(click here to contact / learn more about Dr Emma McConnell >>> )
In this episode, you will learn:
- How to prepare for the conversation between you and your teammates where you establish the new way of working together: from preparing your leadership vision beforehand to creating space for team input, establishing mutual expectations, and inviting accountability.
- The "give and take" framework that transforms leadership from a hierarchical position to a reciprocal relationship.
- How to maintain positive connections while establishing necessary boundaries.
Ready to transform your leadership transition? Listen now for practical strategies to shift perceptions, build authentic authority, and create a team dynamic based on mutual respect rather than intimidation
Click here to find more leadership resources connected to the Human-Savvy Podcast Episodes >>>>
Do YOU have a questions for Human-Savvy?
Are you a leader or a professional in need for some interpersonal/team dynamics/leadership advice? We are here to help you!
Please send your letter to info@behumansavvy.com with the title "Dear Human-Savvy..." and we promise to fully anonymise it and record an episode entirely devoted to tackling your challenge!
Also, we deeply value your feedback. Please email us your thoughts, ideas and suggestions to info@behumansavvy.com or follow and message Dr Liv on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/olivia-liv-oginska-53b345200
hello, hello hi, emma, good to see you. How are?
Speaker 2you today? Hello, I am very well today, thank you, and yeah, super excited to chat. That's cool.
Speaker 1I feel like we're. Every time it's like oh.
Speaker 2I'm so excited to see her. I know because I am always excited to see you. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1We're clearly enjoying what we do together honestly.
Speaker 2yes, yes, definitely, absolutely, definitely, like one of my favorite times of the week, oh mine too.
Speaker 1Oh, okay, hit me. So we're loving this, but we're talking about trouble. We're talking about the leadership challenges. So what is the letter that we have today?
Speaker 2Okay, here we go, Dear Human Savvy. I'm relatively new in my leadership position. I've been with this organization for seven years now, and six months ago I was promoted to a senior position. Suddenly overnight, I shifted from being my colleague's buddy to managing them. It feels very strange to me. We've always had a great relationship.
Speaker 2I'm a guy working in a predominantly female profession and they always treated me like their little brother. Now, when I'm supposed to allocate jobs, manage behaviours or provide feedback, they don't seem to listen to me. I don't want to say that they don't respect me, as I know that they are a bunch of good people, but they seem to ignore my orders. On the other hand, they treat me now like a wish box where they can submit all their requests to the higher management. They don't seem to have any problem with this part of my new role. I find this situation super frustrating. How can I change their attitude? Is there a chance that they will take me seriously one day? I've seen some of my previous bosses mistreating people to get some so-called respect, but I don't want to be one of those scary or rude leaders. Please help.
Speaker 1Oh, like their little brother and are suddenly becoming someone who makes the decisions.
Speaker 2I know that is hard. Who listens to their little brother? That's kind of the problem.
The Little Brother Dilemma
Speaker 1That's true. That's so true. It is something that you know what I'm thinking. If someone has that aspiration to be a leader one day, we probably need to be careful to make sure that we nurture that sense of professionalism and knowledge within our team how people see us long before that, long before we become a leader. Right, would you treat seriously someone who you see as your little brother?
Speaker 2I know. I mean it's a hard adjustment but I think that you would have enough professional courtesy I'm not saying that these people don't, but you think that you would have enough professional courtesy. And not saying that these people don't, but you know you would have enough professional kind of courtesy to kind of respect that new position and sure, outside of work you know he can go back to you know treating him like your younger brother, but obviously within the confines of the business or the profession. You know he obviously is in that, in that leadership or more senior role. So I suspect it's probably just a transition. You know, like I don't think that the people aren't being respectful, it's just very new for them too yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1It's the newness of the situation and I feel even being treated as a younger brother, somebody's little brother, there it can be helpful. It just really depends on how we approach that new situation. Like you said, we would hope that people around us, they have enough of respect, maturity to acknowledge that this is a new thing, but it can be a good thing and we want this person in a new position to succeed because we care about him like we would care about our younger brother. So just shock right, shock to the system like whoa what is this?
Speaker 2yeah, it's like oh, where did that come from? I didn't know. That was what you were sort of wanting to do, or yeah, absolutely. I mean, he obviously deserves to be in that role, so I'm sure they're very happy for him actually 100%.
Speaker 1I'm happy that this person is reaching out to us relatively early on on that journey. So I think he said six months ago that he was promoted to a senior position. It is still quite early days because I would say and it's a very common issue I hear that from my coaches many, many, many, many times every every cohort, when I start teaching my leaders who become my students, I hear someone saying oh my god, I went through that transition was so hard and that actually made them join that type of training which is the motion intelligence training. So it's very common thing. But one thing that we know for sure is that the earlier we start kind of training people around us or making them used to to this new position, the better.
Strategy for New Leaders
Speaker 1It's a little bit like with a newborn or like with a puppy. I currently have puppy in the house. So honestly, I'm going through that mixture of oh my goodness, I love him, I'm going to kill him, but the things that we teach that new creature in a house early on, they will stay, they will become habits. So I would recommend to everyone who is in that new position to sit down, take a breath, strategize, establish what is it that they would to sit down, take a breath, strategize, establish what is it they would like to convey to their team. What is the message? How do they want to idly be seen by their team and to share it with them, and then repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat the behaviors that actually put that into life. Because that's how our brains brains work, how our neuroplasticity just creates those new ways of thinking and seeing things as we grow yes, I think for a lot of people we don't take the time to.
Speaker 2You know, everyone's so busy that I think often that step is missed, where you people don't actually take the time to sit down and truly think about how do I want to be perceived by my colleagues, how, what type of leader do I want to be? You know, like, how do I want to show up? So I think that's such an important step when you're starting well, not only when you're starting your leadership journey, but you're probably going to go back to that several times throughout your leadership career, because, because things may well change you know over time that's such a good point.
Speaker 1Like, yeah, like for me as someone who overthinks everything, that is kind of like a big part of when I prepare for anything that I'm just about to do. I kind of sit down and try to think about it. But you're right, because in a professional setting there is so much happening, very often when someone starts a new job they will have very little induction and they will be dropped immediately into those big tasks and that can feel overwhelming, that can feel make you feel like an imposter. That do I deserve to be here. So there's a lot of emotions involved there and I think it's important.
Speaker 1There's a lot of emotions for the person who starts, but definitely loads of emotions and loads of uncertainty for the team. So just acknowledging that this is a hard time for everyone can help the leader to take it much less personally when people behave awkwardly around us in that situation To say we're all standing on a thin ice, that we don't know whether it's going to just crack or we're going to drown in the cold water, because it was a big change, and that helps us to take it a little bit like take a step back, have some distance, take it less personally if that makes sense yeah, definitely 100, so that's acknowledging emotions, that I think that, alongside um, that's strategizing.
Speaker 1So always, facts and feelings, facts and feelings always try to analyze them together.
Speaker 1Uh, iq and eq at the same time, and I think we can prepare for both.
Speaker 1So, when we realize about those emotions that they are very intense for everyone, both parties in that situation, and also sit down, think about how do I want to be seen, perceived that, imagine that everything is possible.
Speaker 1If you had, like a magic wand and we could just use it and make people see you a certain way, how would you like to be seen by them? And then, once you have that idea, that sort of strategy in your head, a picture, the image of you as a new leader, I would encourage everyone to have a meeting about how we're going to work together, a team meeting where we discuss with the group of people very clearly, without any accusations oh, you guys were not listening to me, no, no, no, absolutely not. A meeting where we get on the same page when we see the leadership position in the same way, because a lot of people see leaders not for they actually are. They see them as some. Suddenly, this is my boss, someone who is better, maybe more important than I am and that generates resentment, doubts, some stark comments and things like that. So the meeting have you ever?
Speaker 1I'm just thinking about you as a leader, emma have you ever had a meeting with your team about who you are to them?
Speaker 2as a leader. No, and this was going to be my question, because I have experienced something similar to what this person is talking about and my question actually was going to be how do you go about starting that meeting and ensuring that the aims of the meetings or objectives of the meetings are met? Because so often when a new leader comes in whether it's a new position or just someone steps into the role that maybe someone's vacated there's always that kind of cynical part of our brains that are like oh, like know someone's stepping into this role and they're going to just want to make changes for the sake of making changes.
Having the Team Meeting
Speaker 2You know to sort of like put their stamp on it. You know it's where that whole like cyclical, like stuff comes in. You know where, like things, processes and policies change and then over time you know like circles back. So there's always that kind of feeling, I think, in a lot of people's minds when a new leader comes on board. So I guess how would you approach actually running that meeting to ensure that you're appearing genuine, like authentic, but without being super cheesy? No, I get that.
Speaker 1Okay. So I would say that I would put it very, very simply Guys, we need to have a meeting about how we're going to cooperate. Like we're one team, we depend on one another. We need to just establish some sort of strategy for us working together. As simple as that. I think that doesn't sound too cheesy. Then, and in that meeting, when you come into the meeting with a clear idea about who you are as a person and what you bring to this team, but also what you want to do for that team. And now there's many different types of leadership and we need to acknowledge that there's so many different names for that transformational leadership, serve and leadership. So get a really good idea of what sort of leader you want to be. And the type of leader that I really adore, from my perspective, is the leader who decides to be a giver and receiver, someone who wants to make things fair for the people in the team, but also to make sure that we equally contribute to this relationship. So let's say, I'm a new leader. I have that meeting with you, emma. This is a new situation for all of us.
Speaker 1I would acknowledge from the beginning that this is a lot of uncertainty here. We need to learn how to work together. This is new. It's going to feel awkward, and that's okay, that's all right. It's just a new. It's going to feel awkward and that's okay, that's all right, it's just a phase. We're going to go through that Now in order to make it easier, we need to remove any assumptions.
Speaker 1We need to remove the things that are unclear. Obviously, there's going to be plenty of those things, but at least the most obvious ones. So what is my intention for this team? And if my intention is to be the leader who gives and receives equally and treats everyone equally, and would like this team to grow and to become very strong together and to avoid, maybe, any incivility, so these will be the things that you want to achieve. So you described that this is the leader that I want to be. Obviously, I am not perfect in any way, but I promise to work hard towards being that leader for you, and this is how I want to show up to you and then ask them what are your expectations of me? What do you think leader is for? And that can really surprise you.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1Yes, yes. Can you imagine, like, what sort of answers could be there, like, let's play that game, what sort of weird stuff could people?
Speaker 2say yeah, people are like you can just deal with all of my complaints. If a complaint comes in to me, I'm just going to handball it to you.
Speaker 1Yep, that is one of the examples. Mm-hmm, anything else. Any crazy ideas about leadership that come to your mind?
Speaker 2Oh gosh, I mean that would be like the biggest one. It's just like oh great, I don't have to deal with these issues now. I palm them off on someone else.
Speaker 1You know what? It shows me that this is one of the things that you're probably faced as a leader. That is probably something that, yeah, am I correct that?
Speaker 2people came to you, yeah. Yeah, I mean it does kind of seem to be the thing. But yeah, I mean I'm sure like, and I think it's great to open up that sort of dialogue, definitely, and it would be interesting to see what people sort of do come with Interestingly, I have never been in a meeting like that.
Speaker 2Okay, and I've been in this career for 19 years, worked with a lot of different leaders in different countries and different like academic institutions and private practice, and all of that. Never has anybody had a meeting like that, wow okay.
Speaker 1So it's kind of like, um, going on a journey to the jungle with a bunch of people if you have a guide of, like a tour guide who's taking you there, but you have no idea what this tour guide is going to do for you. Is he going to hold your hand throughout the whole journey? Is he going to give you water, or he's going to just skedaddle and ignore you all the whole time? So do you see what I mean in?
Speaker 2here. Yeah, absolutely, but I can just really see actually the value, like that would actually be really good. If you know, we had these meetings For sure With leaders. Oh, let's do it. Well, I'll start implementing that now. Please do and tell us how it went.
Speaker 1Yeah, 100%, 100%, because I'm looking at you like you guys can't see Emma, but she's like thinking I can see those plans brewing in her head.
Speaker 2Yeah, well, yeah, I mean I was just reflecting before on like a relative well, yeah, it was maybe like a few years ago now, but just a situation where actually, if I had had one of those meetings, it would have been very beneficial, because I have been in a situation where I've worked with a team for a long time and was promoted to a leadership position in a big hospital and that was kind of challenging for people, cause I also I think the other thing is like often when you've been with an organization for a long period of time, you usually start at the bottom, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2So like you come in, like I came in as a registrar and then, you know, became a senior registrar and then like a junior academic and then a senior academic and then part of the hospital leadership team. And I think that was hard for a lot of people to look at me in that role, yeah for sure. So had I had this knowledge then, yeah, and it wasn't a bad experience, it was like a fantastic time and I absolutely loved that role. But yeah, it just would have made for a different experience, I think, a different transition and probably an easier transition actually, and people can do it at any time, I feel like, so it's never too late for that.
Speaker 1So if someone listening to this podcast is thinking, yeah, I've been in a role for 10 years and there's no point, there's absolutely a point, I promise you. People have misconceptions about who you actually are and what you're doing for this team, so 100%. And the reason for that is like you gave one example that people would think that, oh, you're going to do everything for us. Another misconception is that people don't really know why you were chosen for this position, and this is why they start creating assumptions that are hurtful. So they assume that, oh, maybe someone thought that this person was better than me and this is why they chose them. This is not who leader is. Leader is someone who had certain skills that will be useful in this job. At least, this is how leaders should be chosen, right, this job At least, this is how a leader should be chosen right.
Give and Take Leadership
Speaker 1So, traditionally speaking, especially in the medical world, we will have people kind of climbing that ladder as a natural progression and they will get to that leadership position. And if someone was never trained in those certain skills, it will be very hard for them. But the good news is that they can develop those and if someone is chosen for a role, that hopefully is with a purpose. So they notice let's say, you have become a leader and someone could see in you that you're really good in finding solutions, that you care deeply about the team, that you're someone who can actually listen without judging. They notice those things within you and they saw okay, she can be a good leader. So, talking to your team and letting them know guys, I am in no way better than you guys, I just have a little bit different set of skills which put me in this position, which is different than yours. I have just different kind of set of tasks every day and, yes, I make some decisions, so you can see me as my supervisor.
Speaker 1However, because I base my leadership style on that give and take, I would never do anything without asking about your opinion. I would never force anyone into anything. I would never selfishly make decisions for myself. So then we can move into that, describing that give and take exchange. So, for example, if people say, when they have an and it's just clarity of expectations, nothing other than just literally having clarity of expectations if they say, where we would like our leader to be our advocate, we would like our leader to be our advocate, we would like our leader to always have our back, then it's worth discussing that through that give and take lens.
Speaker 1Guys, of course I would always listen to you. I would like to collect all of the thoughts that you have and then represent you. That is what I promise to give you that representation. On the other hand, if you decide that I am going to represent you, if I make a decision based on everything that you told me and then some external information, what I would like to get from you and you can give to me is trust that I made that decision for you, for your good. So that is that there will be plenty of different examples of give and take in situations, but we need to talk about it, otherwise the expectations are not clear. So it doesn't make sense?
Speaker 2Yes, absolutely, and I think it also comes down to transparency. I think in many situations, often the vision of a leader isn't clear, which then, you know, people can then easily make assumptions about why certain decisions are being made because that vision, you know, hasn't been made clear. Not, you know, because they're trying to hide something, but just because they probably haven't had the opportunity or thought to maybe organize something like this where they can actually share those you know with the team. Obviously they, you know, know what they're working towards, but you know, sometimes we sort of forget to share that you know with the collective. So, yeah, I think transparency, clarity is absolutely key and especially as sort of establishing yourself in a new leadership role is very important, like I think that would be the critical things for me.
Speaker 1Absolutely. So kind of to summarize everything that we said for that leader to think yourself first, what sort of leader you want to be, how you want to show up to your people, have it very clear, know what your values are and know about the vision and your dream for that team. You don't have to put that in that word because it sounds cheesy, but what is it that you want to achieve through this cooperation that's just started here? Get people into one room, sit down, let them know about who you are and what you envision for this team, but also give them the microphone, then asking what do you want from me? How do you perceive someone who is in a leadership position? Make it clear that you're in no way better or worse than them. You just have different role in here. And what are the specific expectations? Fill in the gaps. Don't leave space for the assumptions. Foundations filling the gaps. Don't leave space for the assumptions.
Speaker 1And I would say it also gives a chance to the leader to ask the team to hold them accountable. So these are my promises. This is how I envision that. Again, I'm just a human. I will have days when I will be cranky, when I will not be my best self, and I'm giving you permission to hold me accountable, and if I am kind of like swaying, going away from that path that I chose, you bring me back to the course and I do the same to you. Deal, deal, awesome, let's do it.
Speaker 2Just like that, Just like of course it's so much harder.
Speaker 1I know I'm so sorry I make it sound so easy.
Speaker 2I do acknowledge it's very hard. It's a brave thing to do, yeah, but brave. But I think it's important and I also think, though, it will give you confidence as a leader. Yeah, you know, like to be like, yes, like I put myself out there, I was vulnerable, I was open with my intentions and I was open about who I am and how I want to be perceived, and that's incredibly brave. So if you do that, I mean that should really give you a confidence boost in like you've got this. Like you have got this.
Holding Each Other Accountable
Speaker 1Yes, beautiful, there's building that self-efficacy through those little actions, and also there's a first step to to gain the team's respect. They see that you evidently prepared yourself. They're evidently ready from the very first meeting to listen to what they want from you, that you have the qualities of the leader which takes you from the position of a younger brother to actually someone who can be that lion brother, the protector of the herd, someone who we can rely on.
Speaker 2Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Oh, I love it okay.
Speaker 1So we're all waiting for Emma to have that meeting.
Speaker 2We're hurting, yes yeah, well, it will definitely happen, because we'll have a new cohort of residents starting um in july, so I will definitely be having that meeting, that's fantastic opportunity.
Speaker 1Love it, okay. So we're all waiting for the report after how we went. Um, guys, if you have any ideas, the listener, something that comes to your mind, maybe you see straight away some issues with that. Maybe you see that, oh my god, there's this big Obviously, there's so many different scenarios, so many different situations and options. Let us know. We want to help you with those specific challenges. So we are waiting for your responses and in the meantime, we just do our best and we are brave and we become more and more human savvy every day.