The Human-Savvy Podcast
In this podcast, leaders worldwide can learn how to develop their emotional intelligence, interpersonal skills and... "speak Human".
In each episode, Dr Liv Oginska - an international speaker, psychologist, veterinary surgeon and emotional intelligence expert - meets Dr Emma McConnell - a specialist in Equine Medicine, university lecturer, and entrepreneur - and they answer questions about the people-related leadership challenges that were sent to Human-Savvy from leaders around the globe.
Dr Liv shares practical advice on managing challenging team dynamics and showing up as charismatic, highly emotionally skilled leaders and managers. Dr Emma brings in the leader's perspective, asks deepening questions, and shares her experience of being a manager in both a large organisation and a start-up.
Listeners will learn how to bolster team performance and create trust, create sustainable careers, navigate conflicts between coworkers, manage incivility and so much more.
Tune in to get the support that you deserve and take your leadership skills to the next level!
The Human-Savvy Podcast
Season 2, Episode 5: "My team never seem to appreciate my efforts."
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Have you ever poured your heart and soul into leading your team, only to feel completely undervalued despite your best efforts? You're not alone. This episode tackles one of leadership's most painful paradoxes - when caring deeply for your team seems to make you more vulnerable to burnout and resentment.
In this episode, Dr Liv and Dr Emma share a powerful coaching exercise centered around "Mrs. Paddington," a parable about a dedicated professional who eventually resigns after feeling chronically underappreciated. This story creates a safe space for teams to discuss complex issues without defensiveness, opening doors to genuine understanding.
(click here to contact / learn more about Dr Liv Oginska >>> )
(click here to contact / learn more about Dr Emma McConnell >>>
Try this exercise with your team and watch as perspective-taking creates pathways to genuine appreciation and sustainable working relationships. Your team can't read your mind - but with the right approach, they can learn to see through your eyes.
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A Different Kind of Episode
Speaker 1Hello, our lovely listeners. Today we've got a bit of a surprise. Today's episode will be a little bit different and the reason for that is the fact that Emma and I both saw a post just on Facebook in one of the groups it was a leadership group and we saw that post and that ignited such an intense discussion between the two of us. We thought that was such an important post and the issue is very common and we would like to help you. If you feel like the person who wrote that post and obviously we're not going to read the post to you because it's anonymous, we want to respect that person's privacy, but we want to give you kind of like a gist of what that post was about and, if that is helpful to you, we would like to teach you together how to maybe try out something new with your team a bit of an exercise that you can do with your teammates to tackle that issue. If that seems familiar to you, emma, are you happy to give our listeners a gist of that post, what that was all about?
The Unappreciated Leader Problem
Speaker 2For sure, absolutely so. I guess the general sentiment of the post was that we have a leader that really feels they prioritise their team and they truly care deeply about each individual team member. But it would appear that, despite all of their best efforts, showing how much they care, being there for the team at all hours of the day, they just don't feel appreciated and almost like they're sort of expected to, you know, be able to wave a magic wand, fix all of the problems and literally be perfect. And I think I guess this really resonated with us because it is such a common feeling that leaders have. Regardless of the industry you're in, you always sort of have this feeling that you're supposed to be perfect, like you're supposed to get it right every time and try as you might. You know you are there all the time, you know 24-7. And it just sometimes just never seems to be enough.
Speaker 1Yes, so how do we?
Speaker 2deal with that.
The Mrs. Paddington Parable
Speaker 1Not being enough to our people, no matter what we do, feeling underappreciated by our team yeah, that is the most important issue that we can see in that post. So in today's episode I would like to bring to all of you, our lovely listeners, a tool that is a coaching tool that you can use with your team and you can trigger a new way of thinking, hopefully, in the people that you work with. And that has two parts. The first part is using a parable that can give them an idea, a perspective of someone being in a situation that maybe you feel that you are, and giving them a perspective of someone detached from the team entirely, but someone who also seems to them like a, like a lovely person, someone who would be well-liked by their team members. So I would like you to listen to that parable that I bring to you, but think about someone who would be good for you to use in that story, someone who the team really likes, someone who is well appreciated, one of the clients, maybe, that is well appreciated and the team has very positive, strong emotions towards that person, so immediately they would feel a level of compassion, sympathy, maybe even love and appreciation for that person. So use the right example, choose the right person for that parable. In our case today it's going to be Mrs Paddington, because Amanda and I we're coming from the veterinary background. We're going to use that example of a client in a veterinary clinic. It will be Mrs Paddington, who has a little dog called Fluffy, and here comes the story that you can tell to your team and have a discussion with them afterwards. Hi guys, do you know Mrs Paddington Fluffy's mom? We all know her. She's a lovely little lady, the sweetest, she's a great client.
Speaker 1She once told me why she resigned from her job at the university. I was shocked. I knew that she used to teach, but then she stopped it abruptly and I wasn't sure what happened. She was a course coordinator in the nursing school and after starting her position, the dean of that school quickly realized that she was really good at it. She was truly devoted. She was not only super thorough and she did her job well, but she also stayed later and longer and helped everyone and she responded to the students and colleagues messages even when she was away on her holidays. She was truly, truly devoted to her position. She would cover the lectures that her colleagues couldn't cover and she was liked by everyone At least she thought she was liked because so many people reached out to her for help. With time, the dean and the colleagues would give her more and more duties and the students would contact her more and more. It all worked well until she started burning out. She loved her job, she loved her colleagues and her students, but the amount of those demands were just unbearable. So one day she snapped. She refused to comply. It was when she realized that people did not have such warm feelings about her. When she snapped. Suddenly, everyone was shocked. Suddenly they didn't have such a great opinion about her and instead of taking a moment to discuss the situation with her, they pushed even more and she pushed back. And then they complained about her to the dean of that nursing school. Dean wasn't a really emotionally intelligent leader and didn't ask any curious questions. They just assumed instead of discovering what happened to Mrs Paddington. So she left. She was sick of feeling underappreciated. She was sick of those demands and always being there, available for those people, and no one wanted to understand her perspective. So she left.
Speaker 1Obviously, we made that up, guys. Obviously it's a story. It's a parable, but it's a story about someone who goes through that situation when they give their best to their people. But it's a story about someone who goes through that situation. When they give their best to their people and they are kind of being used, their power is being abused, their helpfulness, their enthusiasm, their kindness is being abused and it doesn't end well, and I worry that many of you guys, our leaders out there in the world, at some point you will be sick of this when you care so much and you don't see anything in return, or when you make one mistake and when you're not perfect, suddenly people don't like you anymore or they complain about you.
Speaker 1So that is our parable that you can use with your team, and what we're going to do now is the second part of today's episode is the questions that you can ask your team. We're going to ask those questions between the two of us. Emma will be my teammate and I will be her leader, and I will guide her through that coaching experience to see what she thinks about that story. Because, as you guys notice, we are not talking about ourselves here. We're not talking about anyone in the team, anyone in the organization. We're bringing an example of such situation to them from the outside world and that story is about someone who, again important, they like, they care about the lovely Mrs Paddington. Anna, are you ready? Are you happy to be my coachee today?
Speaker 2Absolutely. I'm very excited to be your coachee. Let's do it. Fantastic and poor Mrs Paddington.
Speaker 1Yes, right, it Fantastic. And poor Mrs Paddington? Yes, right, I really feel for her, me too. And you know what? It is heartbreaking for anyone who listens to it, but then, when you are maybe on the other side, it doesn't have to be so obvious. So this is why we do that exercise. So are we ready? Shall we do it? Ready, let's do it, let's go, okay. So the first question that I would like to ask you and our lovely listeners you'll have a list of those questions available as a downloadable PDF together with the story. The first question is what do you think, emma, about this whole situation? You kind of told us a moment ago that, oh, poor Mrs Paddington, what else comes to your mind when you think about this whole situation? You kind of told us a moment ago that, oh, poor Mrs Paddington, what else comes to your mind when you think about this whole situation?
Coaching Exercise: Understanding Perspectives
Speaker 2I just feel that it's an incredibly unfair situation to have someone be treated in that manner. So someone who has worked so hard, clearly built a reputation where she's well liked, well respect, well presumably well respected people aren't afraid to give her jobs because she's obviously an effective worker and her outputs are fantastic, and then to just kind of be dumped like without really any opportunity to share her side of the story, like it's horrible.
Speaker 1That unfairness right. Yeah, it's so unfair.
Speaker 2Like brutally unfair.
Speaker 1How do you feel towards Mrs Paddington now, like if you saw her in five minutes. If she came through the door, how would you react towards her? What would you tell her do to?
Speaker 2her. I would just want to give her a huge hug and say you are such a wonderful person and I appreciate you.
Speaker 1And Fluffy appreciates you. Yes, so what happened there? If you were to tell someone a gist of that story, what happened there?
Speaker 2um, so mrs paddington was a really hard worker, um, very dedicated to her work probably too dedicated to her work, if we're honest. And then she sort of suddenly realized, hang on a second, I'm working ridiculous amount. Uh, the expectations of me are too high and I'm not really receiving the maybe the credit or the level of appreciation for these outputs. And do you know what? Now she's decided she doesn't really want to work like that anymore and so, in her way, try to put some boundaries in place. Now she's decided she doesn't really want to work like that anymore and so, in her way, tried to put some boundaries in place. And the people around her did not like her having boundaries, because that was obviously a very new thing. They hadn't experienced that before from her. And then they've responded in a pretty negative way and basically pushed her out the door.
Speaker 1Okay, thank you so much. So what emotions did accompany Mrs Bannington? What did she feel? What do you think?
Speaker 2I think she probably would have felt very sad, very disappointed, let down by the people who are supposed to be there to support her frustration, and yeah, I think that would probably would be the main ones.
Speaker 1I mean, I know that's how I would feel if that was me yeah, that's your perspective and this is what I was interested in. I was really curious about what you made out of this story. How did it sound to you what actually happened there and how did that person feel their perspective on the situation, how they interpreted what happened there, what sort of emotions were happening for the person who is the main character of that story? You learn about how they perceive the world Because there might be many different interpretations. And it's cool and it's such a great opportunity to have that discussion with your team and it can be really fun, because someone might say, oh, she was really frustrated. And someone said, but actually, maybe she was really really sad.
Speaker 1And it shows them immediately that people see the world differently depending on their background and upbringing. And it's okay to feel like that and that is one of our goals to show the team that even though there's one situation that we observe, different people looking at the same situation could see very different perspectives there. They could have different emotions about it, just like in here, when you feel unappreciated, I suppose they see differently than you. So that is an example that you can use there how differently people see the world. Let's go back to our coaching with you, emma. So the next question I have for you is the big one. Do you think Mrs Paddington had the right to feel such way?
Speaker 2Yes, the fact that she has shown so much commitment and dedication and has probably seemingly gone above and beyond what is the requirement of her job and perhaps that has been in her mind hasn't been met with the level of appreciation or acknowledgement. So maybe not even appreciation but just acknowledgement that she perhaps would have liked or maybe expected, then I think in her mind she probably thinks it's fair to start to put up these boundaries in order to limit the workload or make it a more realistic workload, and I think she had every right to do that. I think there's. We always have to be a little bit careful and I think showing someone's perspective of appreciation, or what they see as being appreciated, feeling appreciated how should that look? How does someone show appreciation?
Speaker 2You know, again, in my like personally, I don't think we need to be showering people with appreciation for simply doing the job they're employed to do. I'm not saying that we don't thank them when they do a great job, but I don't think we need like a fanfare when you're kind of just doing what's expected. But I think when people go above and beyond and are always there as mentors or, as you know, supportive networks, and they help out their colleagues a lot and, like I said, just go above and beyond. What is the general expectation then? Yes, absolutely. I think there needs to be acknowledgement of that. And I don't know how that looks that's going to look different for everybody but I think if that doesn't come, then absolutely. If you want things to change, if you decide I can't continue to work like this, then you have to put up boundaries, but maybe you have to explain why you're doing these things.
Speaker 1Beautiful. Thank you so much for that answer. Let's pause in here. As you guys can hear, emma has a lot of thoughts about a situation. She has a lot of details in mind about when it's okay, when it's not okay.
Speaker 1It's a complex issue, in other words, and when you ask your team that question, does someone has a right to feel that way? Listen to them carefully, because you will see their mindset. You will see what they think about the world. That could actually help you understand why people behave in certain ways.
Exploring Boundaries and Communication
Speaker 1It can be very mind on, eye opening that's the word and it can help you understand your people better. You will see their values shining through. You will see maybe the background, the upbringing that shines through, but definitely you will see the world through their eyes a bit more, and that's helpful. And the general gist is usually that, yes, yes, she had, she had a good reason to feel that way and that's important in that story. So this is what we want to hear from your team for them to say, yeah, she had a right to feel upset about it, she was underappreciated. So the next question I have for you, emma, is this one what happens to somebody's performance or to the person in general when they feel in that way that you just described what happens to them.
Speaker 2I don't think that's a black and white answer. Or I don't think there is a black and white answer because I think it is highly dependent on someone's intrinsic motivation and, ultimately, what their career goals are. Generally speaking, if someone is feeling underappreciated, then there's definitely a risk that their performance decreases, but I don't necessarily think that's always the case, because I think if someone has a certain goal in their mind or goals goal in their mind or goals they're highly motivated then maybe they actually don't allow themselves to perform at a lower level.
Speaker 1So there is a chance they're not going to be affected. Is there a chance that they will be affected? They will be a bit discouraged that their level of energy will go down. Yes, 100, probably in 95 of cases that would be true and do you think that impacts how um focused they can be, how much attention to detail they have when there are those strong emotions that she experienced Mrs Paddington experienced that unfairness and frustration.
Speaker 2I think so. Probably one of the biggest things that would be affected is communication. In what way? What do you think Like potentially in the way that she might communicate with other people? Like potentially in the way that she might communicate with other people?
Speaker 2I think perhaps, if she's feeling, you know, really kind of burnt out and maybe overwhelmed, then maybe the communications may lose perhaps some of the nicety that she would historically have. You know, maybe they're shorter communications, they're more abrupt communications. You know, I think that's probably something that quite commonly changes, but it is dependent on the person, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1So I'm curious about your perspective on that, right. I'm curious about how you would maybe behave, or how do you think your behavior would change. So, yes, for some people they would um, they would kind of push through and it wouldn't really touch them. For some people, yes, the communication would change. Maybe they would be less nice, to put it simply, maybe they would be less patient. Maybe they would be looking for a different meaning. They would be more suspicious of what other people are saying. Maybe they would doubt whether someone has a good intention, whether they're saying there might be some confusion. There's just to put it very simply. There might be just a bit more happening in the mind of probably the majority of people who would be in that situation. So, yes, there would be impact on their performance. They would behave differently, they would feel differently because of everything that is happening.
Speaker 1And that is important, our lovely listeners, because when you get to that part of the story, you want to make your team realize that somebody's emotions, they don't stay inside. They come out in the form of behaviors and actions, decisions, sometimes bad decisions, sometimes things that we don't do, things that we miss, things that we forget. And if you work with patients, patient safety suffers. They are definitely affected personally, but also their performance, their performance in here. This is a moment to show your team that for someone who feels like that, it's really hard to be at their best and it impacts the whole organization, every single aspect of it, the team dynamics, the revenue of the of the organization and how clients perceive us as well, because they can feel those things. To have a really good, thorough discussion with your team on that topic of the repercussions of somebody's emotions, just like those that Mrs Paddington had.
Speaker 1Let's move on then. Okay, so let's talk about those colleagues and students. Emma, do you think they did it on purpose? Do you think they wanted her to feel like shit? Did they want her to burn out Like?
Speaker 2what happened there? No, definitely not. I don't think that was the intention at all. I think the issue is that, because they wouldn't have been aware, necessarily, that she was taking on extra things and, you know, providing so much support, you know the students are going to be completely unaware of that and, let's be honest, students only care about one thing, and that's themselves.
Speaker 2So, like we all do, you know so they're not going to have any consideration as to what she's got going on in the rest of her. You know life Like they're only concerned about that one particular lecture that she gave them. You know, in their mind that's. That's all Mrs Paddington is is. You know, she delivered this one lecture and she doesn't do anything else. Um, so so it's definitely not their intention to overwhelm her at all, because they would be completely oblivious to what's going on, and most likely her colleagues also, you know, just aren't aware of how much she's taken on.
Speaker 1So it's, yeah, definitely not, absolutely not intentional so it's not coming from the place of malice, as as I'm listening to you, that, as I'm interpreting that, it's probably coming from the place of lack of awareness um, being a bit short-sighted, uninformed in a way, and maybe not. It's not even their job to get informed about how much work she has, but there is some sort of thing lacking. But it's not kindness in here, it is something else. We're missing something different in here. Okay, so if they didn't really mean for that to happen, is it fair to say that it kind of?
Speaker 2evolved itself a little bit accidentally, but they didn't want her specifically to feel that way. Is it fair to conclude that way? Yes, so it's. I guess the situation sort of escalated from accumulation of events that each individual would not have been aware of. So it is just, you know, it's kind of the perfect storm really, I see.
Speaker 1So now, our lovely listeners, let's pause for a second. This is important because if you bring that story to your team, they don't know it just yet, but they are your teammates. They are those students and colleagues in a Mrs Paddington story and you want to make sure that they understand that. You understand that they didn't do it on purpose, that no one wanted you to feel unappreciated, that those things just happen, and now we're going to move on into what we can actually do about it. But you want to make sure that they are not going to feel suddenly accused at the end of the story, that everyone knows that those things just happen and we need to realize that that happened and take a better control over what is happening right now so that there is no negativity between us. That is crucial.
Speaker 1So now, emma, knowing that that was really tough for mrs paddington, she put a lot of effort, she didn't feel appreciated, she felt frustrated. It was a lot of very difficult emotions happening for her and we know that it was a result of their students and the colleagues behavior. But no one meant for that to happen. It just occurred that perfect storm. So there were two parties involved there and one party was definitely suffering and the other party was just doing whatever they thought that was okay and appropriate at the time. But the outcome was really bad. What do you think we could do differently? What is within each party's power to change to not it anymore? What sort of advice would you give to Mrs Paddington? What sort of advice would you give to those colleagues? Let's make a plan, let's turn that into action.
The Give and Take in Teams
Speaker 2I mean, I think the first thing that would really need to happen was for poor Mrs Paddington to have some boundaries in place, was for poor Mrs Paddington to have some boundaries in place. So, you know, to say no occasionally to her colleagues, to maybe not be as responsive to her students or feel that she had to respond in such a timely manner. So, you know, maybe she just lets the students know. You know your inquiries really matter to me. You know I want to be here for you know. You know your inquiries really matter to me. You know I want to be here for you.
Speaker 2However, you know, obviously you know I have many jobs and so you know, please allow me the grace of you know, not responding to your email. You know, for three to five days, or only expect a response for me within a week. You know, if it's really urgent, please let me know and I'll do my best to respond to you in 48 hours. But you know, and then you know, if you're on holiday to you know, set up an auto responder. I am on holiday. I will not be checking my emails, I will not respond. Instead, contact this person. You know like things like that. But I think you know, putting those, those boundaries in place, are really important and you know, if a colleague does ask you know, can you please do this for me? If you don't have the capacity to do it, don't be afraid to just say no.
Speaker 1But that is hard.
Speaker 2It's hard to say no, absolutely.
Speaker 1So I'm hearing a lot of things that are within her power, within her control, within her radical responsibility in here, and correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just going to repeat what I heard from what you just said, so tell me if that's okay or if I misheard you. What I'm hearing is that it's definitely in her power to let them know that she cares, that they are important to her right, so she can vocalize that. Another thing would be having at least the foundations for for those boundaries, so communicating about the reality, how it truly looks, what we describe in that situation.
Speaker 1In our human savvy world, we talk about giving a gift of clarity, a gift of knowledge to people who are part of this relationship, with whom we want to have boundaries. Boundaries without clarity are not boundaries, they are just wishes, they're unspoken needs. So I'm hearing here that she definitely can and she should vocalize what she needs, what is possible, what is not possible. There's so many things already, right, those boundaries Excellent. So she definitely needs to communicate. If she doesn't communicate, is there a chance for other people to know about what she needs? Nope.
Speaker 2No, because they're not mind readers right like yes don't have a crystal ball so yeah, we can't assume that they will know.
Speaker 1people don't read our minds and it's very tough for a lot of people. It's really hard to understand that. Um, I've got a family member who has a lot of resentment, carries a lot of resentment towards other people because they didn't match that person's expectations, but that person never vocalized those expectations and it's easy to have resentment so beautiful. So, thank you so much, emma. So many things that are within her power. What is it that she can expect in return? So that is what she gives to the relationship. What is the take from her? What can she ask for?
Speaker 2Well, I guess the courtesy or that people respect those boundaries. So, you know, if she said, you know, please don't expect a response for me for four days, and somebody emails her asking a question, doesn't get a response within 24 hours, and then emails her again, you know, then that's not ideal. But if that person is respectful enough and says, okay, I'll give her, you know, four or five days grace to get back to me and then, if I still haven't heard, okay, maybe I can follow up, check in, make sure everything is okay. Just following up on my email, you know, are you able to answer my question?
Speaker 1So what she can expect from people, what does that take, is to follow certain rules, guidelines that she might establish, or they might even establish them together. Um, so what she created that other people will respect, that that they will follow absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree. That is the take. Another thing that comes to my mind we didn't talk about, but what is within her power is that, when she's feeling that she's burning out, to communicate that to her leader, to that dean of school, the nursing school that we used in this example. It is definitely in her power and, well, we'll see what the leader does about that. But if we don't say it again, no one can help. That, correct, we need to communicate. Okay, so, colleagues and students, what is it that they can ask for? What is it that give and take from their perspective? What is it they can ask for and give in exchange? What do you think? What do they want, what do they need from her?
Speaker 2Well, I mean, I guess from the student's perspective, you know they probably might need some clarification on some of the teaching material. Or, you know, maybe they have things that they're concerned about or maybe they're looking for some mentorship and I think all of that is absolutely appropriate in what they can ask of her. I guess for her colleagues I guess a little bit hard to know, because we don't really know the sort of situation within that nursing school as to whether they're doing clinical work or is it just academic work. But I guess from the colleagues' perspective, I mean, they should be able to expect to be able to rely on her if she says she's going to do something, that she will do it.
Speaker 2So that reliability, that accountability, and again, I guess, support, just collegial support, you know, to have each other's back.
Speaker 1Oh for sure. Okay, so what I'm hearing is that what the colleagues and students want to expect of her? So what is that take that they can, um, expect from mrs paddington is to be supported, am I catching correctly? So be supported by her, to rely on her, to be able to rely on her, for her to be thorough and also maybe to be kind of listened by her, because you mentioned the needs of the students. So the things that I'm sure they worry, they care, they don't bother her for the sake of bothering her. They need that to then feel safe, to be able to grow and progress. So maybe to be understood and listened to from her perspective.
Speaker 1I don't know, am I getting correctly? Yeah, absolutely, okay, excellent. So, with the, the give from the students and colleagues, we kind of described that in that take of mrs palington was what she wants from them. Yes, so that's absolutely something that they can give to her. It is within their power to give those things it. It is in their power, again, to communicate clearly about what they need and truly want and it's in their power to respect the guidelines that she establishes 100% Beautiful.
Speaker 1Our lovely listeners. That would be a moment for you, with your team, to really celebrate them, because I'm sure they would come up with many good ideas, that logically thinking. When we take away that emotion, there are so many different things that we can do to prevent someone feeling like shit and burnout. There are so many things we can do to help one another be really good humans, to make it easier to be good human beings, and I would definitely applaud your team and I'm applauding you, emma for coming up with so many different fantastic ideas, but also for being so understanding of both parties in this conflict that we observe in here. And when you do that exercise with your team, show them that this is awesome, that they came to the same conclusion.
Speaker 1And this is, my lovely leaders, what leadership truly is about is being able to have conversations with your teams about the issues and guiding them, helping them to grow, see other perspectives, to build something together, to not have all the answers yourselves, but find those answers within your team. And definitely discussing that give and take approach all the time with your team that we talk about that. I think in pretty much every single episode it comes to the surface as the essence of it. And finally, finally, that is also a moment for you, after you know, patting each other on the back, saying we're so good, like we could really help them. That is a moment for you to say you know, guys, um, I don't know if, if that would ever come to your mind, if you would ever realize, but sometimes, unfortunately, I feel a little bit like Mrs Buddington when it comes to our communication and I wanted you to know that because you deserve to know how I feel and I would love to know how you feel about the situation.
Applying the Exercise with Your Team
Speaker 1I wanted to bring to you that story to show you my perspective, and we all deserve to understand one another, to respect one another and care for one another. So, yeah, this is what I wanted to show you in here, how it looks to me and I wonder how it looks to you. Can we talk about us now? Can I tell you about the, the take that I would love to ask you to give me, and I would love to hear take that I would love to ask you to give me, and I would love to hear your take. I would love to discuss our give and take in this team in terms of our communication and our relationship between me, your leader and you guys, my wonderful team. How about that? Oh, I love that. Oh, I love that. I love that so good. I wonder what sort of discussions can come out of it.
Speaker 1Um, I was very lucky to hear some of the um kind of reports after what happened with my savvies. So my trainees when they try it out with their team, and it's just beautiful. I just love hearing those stories it. This is a situation when it's not about showing who is right, who's wrong. It's about showing that I have my piece of that jigsaw puzzle and you have yours, and unless we really talk about it, no one will ever understand it. And, emma, if you're my team and you are my team, you're my wonderful business partner. We can be very honest with one another. We are right. We can tell one another when something doesn't sit well with the other person, and I respect you enough to tell you about it before I feel resentful towards you.
Speaker 2And vice versa.
Speaker 1Thank you so much, gosh, but it's hard, isn't it Like to talk about those difficult things? It is.
Building Deeper Team Relationships
Speaker 2It's uncomfortable, but you know, that's where the growth happens. It's in those uncomfortable moments, that's where those relationships become deeper, you know, become better. And I do think in situations, I think in situations like this, appreciation is a really tricky kind of concept, I think, because it means such different things to different people. Yeah, and, and so I think think having a or doing an exercise like this, where you can truly get to see how other people feel about the situation, I think is really really beneficial, because you will get to know your team members better by doing it. And I think it's also very hard because everybody, for the most part, we are all kind of quite selfish individuals, not because we don't care about each other, but it's just, you know, because this is how we survive, right, we have to look after ourselves, and I think it can be really hard to get a true understanding of somebody else's workload For sure, because you just don't know, like, until you're walking in their shoes, you actually have no idea what it's like for them in that particular role or that situation.
Speaker 2And I think it's the for them in that particular role or that situation, and I think it's, you know, it's the same for, you know, our students.
Speaker 2It's impossible for us to expect a student to know what we as you know, lecturers and teachers what we have going on.
Speaker 2We can't expect them to understand that or to know that or even to really care about it, because their priority is getting a degree, is passing the exam, is, you know, progressing through the course, and that should be their priority. You know, obviously we just ask for respect and courtesy, but it does go both ways, and I think it's the same for our team members is, you know, we have to be respectful of what each other does, which I think for the most part happens, but sometimes I guess people just get a little bit or sort of lose sight, I guess, of that be respectful of what each other does, which I think for the most part happens, but sometimes I guess people just get a little bit or sort of lose sight, I guess, of that bigger kind of picture and, yeah, you sort of just focus a little bit too much on what you've got going on as opposed to what the people around you have going on. So I think doing this exercise would be very, very rewarding.
Speaker 1I really hope so. I really hope so. I hope that can help the team and the leaders to remove the assumptions when we don't talk about something. It will persist and we might try to resist it as much as we can and you will continue persisting. Hopefully that will be a bit of an exercise that you can do with your team. The more you know your team, the easier it will be for you to lead them and the more human, savvy, brave, courageous, worth people's respect you will seem if you talk to your people, if you know them well. So good luck everyone. Let us know how it went and we'll see you in the next episode.