The Human-Savvy Podcast
In this podcast, leaders worldwide can learn how to develop their emotional intelligence, interpersonal skills and... "speak Human".
In each episode, Dr Liv Oginska - an international speaker, psychologist, veterinary surgeon and emotional intelligence expert - meets Dr Emma McConnell - a specialist in Equine Medicine, university lecturer, and entrepreneur - and they answer questions about the people-related leadership challenges that were sent to Human-Savvy from leaders around the globe.
Dr Liv shares practical advice on managing challenging team dynamics and showing up as charismatic, highly emotionally skilled leaders and managers. Dr Emma brings in the leader's perspective, asks deepening questions, and shares her experience of being a manager in both a large organisation and a start-up.
Listeners will learn how to bolster team performance and create trust, create sustainable careers, navigate conflicts between coworkers, manage incivility and so much more.
Tune in to get the support that you deserve and take your leadership skills to the next level!
The Human-Savvy Podcast
Season 2, Episode 6: "How can I be more assertive?"
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In this episode, we answer a letter from an introvert who stepped into a role created specifically to manage strong-willed, independent professionals, and our listener suddenly finds herself struggling with assertiveness and accountability.
Through practical advice and actionable strategies, Dr Liv and Dr Emma explore how to bridge the expertise gap while still commanding respect.
(click here to contact / learn more about Dr Liv Oginska >>> )
(click here to contact / learn more about Dr Emma McConnell >>>
In this episode, you'll discover:
- why understanding your team deeply must precede any attempts at change
- how to communicate with conviction even when you doubt yourself
- specific phrases that can transform how your directives are received.
The episode highlights a powerful metaphor: effective leaders sometimes need to be "loud ambulances on a mission" – creating temporary discomfort in service of a greater purpose that everyone understands and values. We examine common communication pitfalls that undermine authority and provide alternative approaches that inspire collaboration rather than resistance.
Whether you're managing specialists, subject matter experts, or simply a team that's been doing things their way for years, this conversation offers a roadmap for leading with confidence when you lack technical expertise.
Listen now to transform how you approach leadership in unfamiliar territory and turn your outsider perspective into your greatest strength.
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Do YOU have any questions for Human-Savvy?
Are you a leader or professional in need of advice on interpersonal dynamics, team leadership, or other related areas? We are here to help you!
Please send your letter to info@behumansavvy.com with the title "Dear Human-Savvy..." and we promise to fully anonymise it and record an episode entirely devoted to tackling your challenge!
Also, we deeply value your feedback. Please email us your thoughts, ideas and suggestions to info@behumansavvy.com or follow and message Dr Liv on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/olivia-liv-oginska-53b345200
Hi Emma, how are you doing? It's good to see you. Hello, you too. I can't wait to see what we're going to be chatting about today, me too Very curious, let's jump right into it.
Speaker 1Okay, here we go, dear Human Savvy. I'm a manager of a physiotherapy practice in the United Kingdom. I was employed by the practice owner, who a physiotherapist to improve the patient flow, take over some of the HR duties and manage the diary. I used to manage a blood donor centre and I was good at it, but a physio practice is a very different story. I don't have any training in this field and everyone who I'm supposed to manage is older than me, including the practice owner and four other physios. They are all fiercely knowledgeable, independent and used to doing things their own way.
Speaker 1All of that causes conflicts in the past, hence why creating the position of a practice manager. I'm naturally an introvert and I can work well with other introverts, but I struggle with being assertive and decisive with this new bunch. I don't feel comfortable putting forward my ideas and I am definitely not comfortable keeping the team accountable. Please help. Sounds like a tough crowd, isn't it? Oh, my goodness, I mean I do really feel for this person. Oh my goodness, I mean, I do really feel for this person. You know, nobody really likes change, so that's always going to be a challenge. Is that you're sort of coming in a little bit on the back foot. And yeah gosh, certainly no easy task there.
Speaker 2Yeah, very true. And can you imagine you step somewhere, you start working with the professionals who have so much knowledge and you have none of it. You don't have the same training. They speak their own language that you can't understand. That must be really overwhelming, I suppose.
Speaker 1Okay, I was going to say quite admirable for this person for taking on that role. So, yeah, well done, but gosh.
Speaker 2Yeah and good job. But also, I'm just thinking someone who hired that person so it sounds like the owner of that practice is a physiotherapist themselves. So they hired our listener, the author of this letter, to be a practice manager and a lot of other physios. So that person, the owner, they needed to be aware that when they hire someone who is not a therapist, physiotherapist, they will not know a lot of the lingo, the language that they use, the structure, how it all works. So it's quite a bold choice of the owner of that practice to hire someone who doesn't have the same training. Right, I just wonder, like, did they set them up for failure?
Speaker 1what's happening in here. Yeah, I mean you know, because even like, yes, they've obviously come from a different part of their you know health care profession now, but not everything runs the same way. So, yeah, very interesting. Clearly, clearly, this person they obviously sold themselves really well in the interview and are obviously incredibly capable and that's probably what the practice owner has seen Someone who's you know, yes, they can probably make real positive change to their practice, but yeah, at what expense, I guess.
Speaker 2That's true and I suppose for the practice owner it's nice to have someone from a different not necessarily different industry, but from a different type of practice, because it's like a set of fresh eyes, kind of like fresh ideas, different experience with similar type of client, which is the patient in this case. Um, in that blood donor center you would have patients who are going through a little bit like a stressful moment, but they are there for with a mission. They want to do something good, but that involves injections and needles and quite uncomfortable stuff. In the physiotherapist practice I suppose people come with also health issues. There might be some pain involved. So I suppose there's a similar type of the patient. Still, there will be obviously the differences.
Speaker 2That's very interesting and it sounds like this person, our practice manager, is not feeling comfortable putting those ideas forward, does not feel comfortable managing those people, for the lack of a better word, like to manage someone, in other words, to guide them towards the changes, innovation, which obviously is needed, right. This is why this person was hired. There was a change needed.
Speaker 1Yes, absolutely. And I guess it's also curious to know and obviously we're not going to know, but in these situations, how much discussion was had with the team prior to introducing this role. You know, is everybody on the same page? Did everybody feel that a hire like this was necessary? Also, I mean cause that kind of plays into how that person is going to be received, and then does that help them build confidence, or is their confidence getting knocked because someone thinks oh, oh, I'm not really sure why you're here?
Speaker 2it's all about that narrative, right, like what was the narrative that they used to introduce that person. That is one of the situations I really wish we could sit down with the author. So good, so many questions, so good. Okay. So how about we approach it from the perspective of helping someone who is maybe a little bit out of their depth, but they still need to work with the team. So they have the same goal but they have different angles towards, you know, the, the getting to that goal, or what they know on a daily basis, or so someone.
Speaker 2I think this person mentioned that they are naturally an introvert. Did I catch it correctly? Yes, um, so someone who's more introverted and there's a bunch of strong-headed, very knowledgeable, independent humans that they need to manage. So maybe a bit more extroverted people, but but we don't know that but definitely someone who needs to be assertive, someone who needs to create a change and be assertive and take people with them, inspire them, motivate them and work with them, even though they might be seen as someone different than the rest of the bunch. So what do you think? Does that sound right? Should we approach it from this angle?
Speaker 1Yeah, I think that sounds very sensible, Cool Okay let's do it.
Speaker 2Let's do it All right. So what I would say to this person first of all is, when you're coming into a group of people who are a little bit different than you, your first task is to get to know them better. Don't ever try to make any changes off the bat, straight away and I know that there's a lot of enthusiasts where we entered the new jobs like I'm going to save the world, but you might make it much worse. So get to know your people first, and I think this is super important. What makes them tick? What motivates them? What is it that annoys them?
Understanding Your Team First
Speaker 2What is it that they actually want to get out of their job, out of this profession? Is there something that happened in the past? Do they have any bad experience? Maybe they tried to have a practice manager in the past? So I would find out. What is it that they like and they dislike? To put it very simply, it's kind of like drawing a portrait of a person, but not what is on the outside, so how they look, how their faces look, but how do they look inside? On the inside, what makes them them? In other words, I don't know if that makes sense what I'm saying.
Speaker 1Emma, yeah, it does. It does, I love that.
Speaker 2It's a big mistake that, unfortunately, I can see a lot of leaders making, and that is very often not their fault. They are given a task and they were told okay, I need you to manage this group, I need you to create a new schedule and I need you to make them adjust to that schedule. I need you just to make some changes. They are not given time to understand the people that they work with. I don't know if that's something maybe that you encountered because you're a leader. Were you given specific time to understand who you work with or not?
Speaker 1I created the time myself to meet one-on-one with a lot of the team that I didn't know. So, yes, so I guess it was something that I kind of felt was important. So, yes, so I just sort of went ahead and created that time kind of felt was important. So, yeah, so I just sort of went ahead and created that time and space to do that.
Speaker 1I've certainly encountered a number of leadership changes, you know, for a number of different institutions where I've worked, where that hasn't happened and it just kind of doesn't really kind of like set the right tone, I think, and sometimes it can. You know, those leaders don't have that opportunity to really get to know the people that are reporting to them and they do sort of have to suddenly make these changes. Sometimes it's even been, you know they've had to let people go. Oh yeah, changes. Sometimes it's even been you know they've had to let people go. Oh yeah, you know that's like I mean, that's an awful position for that leader to be in, but it really kind of taints the the tone, I guess, of how you kind of look at your new leader. So I can sort of see, you know, both sides, um, you know the positive and the negative.
Speaker 2Very, I think very often what happens is that someone is hired because there was a strong need for something, for a change, so the owner wants someone to sort it out very quickly and then there's no time to actually get to know the people. I'm really happy to hear that you spent some time getting to know people that you. You needed to fight for it and you did fight for for some time and space with those people you could get to know them. There are a few other leaders who I know. There are fantastic leaders that come to my mind and I know that they did that in their new jobs, in their new roles. Great shout out to Stu, one of my coachees's definitely um, he's a fantastic role model. So, stu, you're doing so well. And he told me literally this week that in his new job he now spends loads and loads of time to understand his people visiting. He's kind of managing a few different branches of the organization.
Speaker 2Another person would be Tim. So a shout out to tim. I know that he did that as well enter a really large organization and spend loads of time just traveling between those different branches talking to people, and only then you can start making any changes. So if we are not given that time, if someone hired us without that time, it is a very difficult position to be in and I would encourage everyone in a new position to time. It is a very difficult position to be in and I would encourage everyone in a new position to fight for it in a very obviously gentle, compassionate, understanding way.
Speaker 2To go to your leader, your employer, I suppose someone literally above your head who wanted you to be there, and tell them it's great. Let's say, james hired me. James, absolutely, I'm happy to do those changes. I would like to work on the scheduling and adjust it. However, I need to first understand who I'm working with and only when I know that I can make those changes. It's kind of like someone would like you, emma, suddenly to drive a vehicle, let's say tractor, although you might have driven a tractor before, so I don't know it's going to be a good example. But let's say someone puts you behind the wheel of a tractor and suddenly says drive, let's go.
Speaker 1Have you ever driven a tractor? No, I can safely say I have not ever driven a tractor, and I don't think anybody would let me behind the wheel of a tractor would you just bulldoze through the fields and just it is not gonna end well, I can promise you oh.
Speaker 2I'm in the same bubble. Honestly, we're like, no, don't give me anything other than a car. I can drive a manual, but I think even safer, just give me automatic. Okay, okay. So that's matched, okay. That's an analogy. The metaphor worked, fantastic, it worked, yeah. So this is exactly what that is Like. We need to know who we're working with. We need to know all the buttons and handles, how to turn the wheel, with what strength and at what point, so that we can really make that change happen.
Speaker 2So the first piece of advice that I have for this person is to try to understand those people as much as you can. If you were not given time or space to do it, fight for it Otherwise. If you were not given time or space to do it, fight for it Otherwise, you will be doomed. You will be set up for failure.
The Importance of Being Assertive
Speaker 2And if you're the owner of someone who is listening to this podcast and is the owner of any workplace, think really deeply whether you gave the leaders kind of mid-level leaders, those below you enough time and space to get to know your people. If you didn't, you can do it better in the future. Emma, if you were to employ someone now, someone who would be managing kind of like would be between you and the team. Is there something that like a must have we just talked about that right that to give them time to get on your team. Is there any advice, anything else that you would tell that person so that it would be they would maybe feel more comfortable taking on such a big challenge of being somebody's leader? What would you give to that mid-level leader as the top tier leader? What do you think?
Speaker 1as the top tier leader, what do you think you sort of wouldn't want to initiate any bias. So I think you would need to be careful insofar as what you would tell your new leader about your team Almost that they like yes, they have to sort of find out for themselves and obviously, if there's, you know, certain team members have a specific needs in you know ways that they prefer to be communicated to, or things like that. I think, obviously, that information you're definitely going to share, but I think there are some things you just have to be a little bit careful in how much information you provide about each individual, because you want someone to form their own opinion.
Speaker 2Yeah, of that team.
Speaker 1Member. Um, but, like I sort of just mentioned, I think, if there are individuals that do have specific needs whether it's you know, they always leave early, at 2, 30 because they have to collect their child from school, but they start early, early and so that's totally fine or this person you know prefers you not to message them outside of hours, this person very happy to be contacted if it's an emergency, you know. Details like that, I think, are really important and will definitely really help that person that's coming into the team, but also giving them the opportunity to kind of find things out on their own.
Speaker 2Yeah, without any kind of preconceived ideas, I love that's what you said so good, honestly, because in what is it the thing that you would do? You would refrain from putting the image that you have in your head of certain person or team members, kind of taking a picture out of your head and implementing that in that new person's head. And I just love that. And I think we could put that into one big category of what you said that should be passed on in terms of information. It would be to give them practical, good advice. Right, but not necessarily your personal perspective warnings about someone.
Speaker 2Yes, that makes sense, love that Fantastic. So that's another piece of advice, I think, for the person who is a new leader and for their relationship with their employer, with the owner of the place. If we are a new leader, that middle level leader, we could even ask our employer to say do you know what? Don't tell me too much about the character of the person, don't tell me too much about their personality. I think would be very interesting for me to find out first, and then we can kind of then maybe sit down and compare our notes once that happened, which can be also very good brainstorming, love that. Thank you so much, ada, so good.
Speaker 2Okay, and the third little piece of advice that I would have for this person listening is to understand why you will need to be assertive, why sometimes you will need to put your foot down and you will need to convince them without doubting yourself, because when you doubt yourself and your decisions and why we even have to do it a specific way, people will feel it, they will detect it, they will know that you're not sure about your decision. Uh, emma, how do you think, how does it look when someone tries to encourage you to do something, let's say to try to motivate you, but they are not convinced themselves. How does it look? What do you think? How does it look? How does it show up in the person, like the body language, or maybe what words would they say? Do you have any guesses?
Speaker 1I mean, I guess like there would often be that nervous kind of giggle or like laugh. I think sometimes people are sort of like trying to say something that they really believe and really feel, but they're just like not that confident, so yeah. So I think their their body language, body language, you know, they just kind of become a little bit small.
Speaker 1yeah yeah, they sort of shrink down a little bit instead of, you know, like being super wide and open, I guess avoiding eye contact, I think for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 2And yeah, I mean, I think for sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean, I think it's. It is really hard, though, like sometimes you can be really comfortable and confident in your decision and you know that it's the right thing, but and you try and express that and it just doesn't come out the way you intend it.
Speaker 2Yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 1I feel like being assertive can actually be really difficult for a lot of people, and I think for women especially, because so often we're being assertive but it's seen as you're being bossy yeah, yeah, and it's like no.
Speaker 2I'm just trying to share my thoughts and the reasons for why we should do these things this way it's such a big issue and I heard that from so many different sources and angles where how differently men and women are still unfortunately treated when they try to be assertive or when they are kind. Very often kindness is mistaken for weakness, which is just ridiculous, and anyone who's listening to it like guys bullshit and hopefully you have no children in a car as you're listening to it. But we all know that that is ridiculous and it takes a lot of character strength to be a kind person. It really takes a lot of character strengths and the other way around. When we are more decisive, it comes across as aggression sometimes and again there is a lot of that bias and stereotypes that are involved.
Speaker 2I think everyone who listens to this podcast, everyone who we work with so it is the community of human savvy people. We are definitely better than that. So I think it starts with even catching ourselves how we assess our colleagues. So let's say we are two women, right, emma? You and I, we're both female. If we see another female who is doing their very best to be assertive, to be decisive, to come across as a confident, I think it's worth observing what we start thinking about a person to catch whether we judge them as maybe a bit too cocky or arrogant and when we catch it name is like oh, look at that. I think I'm misreading the situation. Situation, what this person's trying to do. They literally try to put their point across, right, I don't know, like this it's, it's a big chunk of self-awareness there. I think like I need to start doing that myself a bit more. I don't know what you think, emma, but I think I need to observe myself what I think about it?
Speaker 1yes, definitely I do, but I do think, you know, as sort of time goes on, and I think you know, we are becoming more and more acutely aware of this, and I do feel, though, at least in my I do find that when one of my female colleagues is trying to, you know, be assertive like I would always have her back, and if it was something that I agreed with, I would speak up and support her. I would do that for my male colleagues as well, but often they don't need it because people just listen to them anyway.
Speaker 1But certainly I do think, yeah, that we're as a society, I think we are all making really good, positive steps to supporting each other in those situations.
Speaker 2I think so too. So there is definitely hope and it's going to get easier, but I think choosing the right words definitely helps us to come across as assertive and we can talk about that in a second, and there will be another chunk of advice for this listener, for sure. But one thing that we definitely need to start and would advise the author of this letter to understand why it is so important for you to actually be assertive and keep them accountable. So give them a little bit of that tougher love. So you give them love because first you want to understand what is important to them, what they value, everything that we just talked about. You need to understand how to use that vehicle, which buttons to press and which buttons avoid, and that is a sign of love, of curiosity. You care enough to understand the person in front of you, which is awesome. It takes time and effort, a lot of intelligence, not only emotional intelligence, but cognitive as well. So that is that part of the love, but the toughness in there is important. So you need to be very, very sure, and I think when you show yourself that this is the right thing to do, first of all, let's say we're changing a schedule. Then you will know, looking at a bigger picture, that it's going to bring more peace to the people involved in that schedule. It's going to be better financially. So you understand the bigger picture, the repercussions, the ripple effect of those little changes and it's something that you need to convey to them. So that is, we can talk about it. When we move into that part of conveying that, you need to be sure this is the right decision. So that's the first step.
Speaker 2And the second thing, knowing that you can be sometimes loud in a way that you know some people are worried of triggering someone, of causing conflict. Sometimes the initial interaction, when we try to convey something important, it will be triggering because it's against what we used to do. It will not be comfortable for the people, but that loudness is sometimes needed. The best example that anyone can imagine is you know, when there is an ambulance racing through the streets and they have the alarm like blurring and it's so loud and it can be really stressful for people around. So let's say you're driving your car, you just try and get to work peacefully and you hear some alarm and someone beeping and loads of just turmoil.
Speaker 2You could get kind of annoyed like what is this like why are you doing that to me? Even especially when it's like beeping instead of the alarm, you would just like, okay, you would move away from from the path of that car, but you would be annoyed. But once you see that it is an ambulance and it's going on a mission and it's making all that noise because it's important to be listened to that creature, that ambulance, then we were like, ah, okay, it makes sense. So I would say to everyone out there don't be afraid to be a loud ambulance that is on a mission, but convey that mission, because if people don't get the mission of an ambulance, it's still just a noise. How does it sound to you, emma?
Speaker 1Yes, I love how you've phrased that and that makes a lot of sense. And I do think that the biggest key is conveying the why. Like, people need to know why. Totally fine to make decisions, to make changes, very happy to comply with those, as long as we know why are we doing it.
Speaker 2For sure, for sure, if we don't know why, we're not going to bother, like we won't do it, just because, oh, emma, I think it's going to be good, like what? She's not even a physiotherapist, she's like what? Does she know Exactly?
Speaker 1Exactly. Why would we listen to her?
Speaker 2Absolutely. And so knowing your why, so you know why that is truly important to be conveyed, and not being afraid to be loud when it's needed because it serves a purpose. It's not loudness for the loudness. So that's, yeah, self-preparation there. Shall we move into actually talking about it, conveying it. I think that's the hardest part Okay.
Speaker 2So I think, once Our dear introvert, our dear author of this letter, once you go into a meeting with your people people who you already know, maybe get some numbers printed out from the system, maybe some data that they've never seen, but it's really important in here because you can use that as a prompt, you can use that as a tool to show them what you mean. Get a pen and draw for them Listen, guys, this is where we are at at, this is how we divide our schedule, this is how we work at the moment, kind of this is a result. So, let's say, we get stressed, or you can even coach them through that. You can even say, guys, listen, so this is how we work at the moment. Tell me a little bit about your experience.
Speaker 2When you have a very, very busy day, do you feel calm and peaceful? Do you feel like you can flow naturally? Or what is happening for you? They will tell you that what we have now doesn't work. Yes, yeah, they know right that it doesn't work. Yes, you just need to open their eyes to it. So this is where we are at and this is where we want to get. So you can coach them through that as well, well, how would you like to have your day? Would you like to have more time, more order? Would you like to have more calmness and peace? Would you know that there is better control over what is happening? This is just in the case of like talking about the shadow, because, from what I heard in that letter, they need to like the flow, the patient flow, that was right patient flow and managing the diary?
Speaker 2yeah, absolutely so. That is just an example. But with whatever change you need to do the leader, sit your team down, make them tell you how the things do not work at the moment and then create a vision of what you want to get, where you want to get together as well, and then it's time to start offering ideas so you can say that this is what I was thinking about. Obviously, it's just my idea. I'm not, I'm not a physio. I don't sit in that consultation room. You do so. You tell me whether that idea is good. Maybe you have different ideas, and then it is a kind of an art of starting small to choose one little change that everyone will agree on. So we have that ikea effect again, where people do build it together so they care about it more and they're less likely to throw it away, and then you put that into action and you update them how it worked.
Speaker 2But you see like we, we were not really shouting too much in there, right, even though it was like a bold thing to do, but we coached them through it more than then. We didn't tell them what to do, if that makes sense, unless Unless it sounded like that to you you tell me, emma, I don't know.
Speaker 1No, well, I think it encourages buy-in from the team if they're involved in some of that decision-making and it's at a lower level, because obviously the higher level decision is that we are going to change the way that we schedule, for example, but now let's have buy-in from the whole team, where we listen to everybody, we seek counsel from everybody who's involved and who it will affect, and let's work on a solution together. Yeah, and by using that approach, like I said, you have buy-in from the team. Everybody's on the same page and, yes, maybe not everybody's going to be 100% happy, but you've probably got majority vote. So that's a really good approach. I think where things go really pear-shaped is when there is no consultation or where the team has zero involvement, and sometimes it has to be that way, depending on whatever the decision or change needs to be. And, of course, in that situation, if that's the case, then that's how it is. But again, it's communicating very clearly the why.
Speaker 1So there is still some you know, sort of face-to-face interaction around that change. Where things, and where I've seen things go really badly is when their individual decisions made that do affect the whole team without any consultation. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2That is taking away somebody's power and autonomy and just treating them like children.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean it's not great.
Speaker 2It's not great and, like you said, sometimes it's needed. But again, people need to understand why and I would go even step further. And I said they need to understand why you didn't ask them for an opinion. Yes, yes, yes, understand why you didn't ask them for an opinion. Yes, yes, yes, right, because they might think okay, I can see that this is important, how to get that? So we couldn't have a conversation about like what, what's wrong in here? But when you explain to them guys, listen, this is a decision.
Speaker 2Let's say you work for a corporate. It's a decision that came from the top level of the corporate. Neither you or myself have any impact on that. So the only thing that we do have an impact is how we're going to approach it, whether we there have some little flexibility about application of that decision and a little bit of job crafting there. Is there something that we can do? So we sit down together and we think about is there anything flexible there? But we are all in the same boat again that that decision was made. So just to explain to them why they didn't have a say in that situation Very important.
Speaker 2And things like, for example, little sentences that you guys can use. Uh, our listeners, I think they work so beautifully. Things like, um, do you guys trust me that I really really thought about you and about everything involved and that is that the decision, the solution that came to my mind. Do you trust me, I really considered your business, that I was really wanted the outcome to be mind. Do you trust me, they really considered your business there, that I was really wanted the outcome to be good for you. So, do you trust me? Um, do you want us to succeed?
Speaker 2So, when let's say there's some resistance, but oh, why should we change it? Oh, we've always been doing it that way. That schedule, um, yeah, wow, let's not all those naysayers. Yes, I think, if we come to a conclusion that it is work, working kind of all right, but it could be much better really, that there's something that is missing at the moment. Asking them do you want us to actually grow? Do you want us as an organization, as a group of people, to get better and better and better, and no one will say no.
Building Trust and Confidence
Speaker 2Like actually nah, nah I just want to stay the same. I just want to rot in my little version of something. No one will say that, no one will do that. So do you want to succeed? And I'm just thinking any other phrases that are useful? Oh, we talk about the language, so how to come across as certain. So let's say, we talk about what is what is. Now. We kind of agree that we could work towards something better, and then it's time to offer our suggestions. So there's something that we would like them to do and follow. It's really important to avoid words like or phrases like I guess, oh, oh, I guess we could do that, um, maybe. Or you finish the sentence with right, so that will be better. Right, that sign of not being sure about what you know, what you have the conviction about. Does that make sense, emma, those phrases?
Speaker 1Definitely yes. You don't want it to come across like you're asking a question. You don't want it to come across like you're asking a question. You know, like, yeah, this is what I think. Am I right in thinking that?
Speaker 2like no, no, this is what I think, yep that is not a space for asking questions, because leaders ask lots of questions, but leaders don't ask the question. About what should I think?
Speaker 2they ask the question about what do you see? What is your perspective? This is what I see. I'm happy to work on my perspective and take into account what you see, but I do have my own mind and I actually spend some time thinking about it and this is my decision and then we can find a common ground. So definitely avoiding those words. For any practitioner, that actually any professional when they talk to any client, that little tip it really changes a lot when we avoid yes, right?
Speaker 2maybe I think no, my, my professional perspective, this, in my professional opinion, we should do that and I would recommend so. All those very decisive words, sometimes also slowing down a little bit and it's very hard for me, for example, because, as you can see, I speak so quickly but slowing down so that, guys, this matters, and we need to do it, instead of saying, guys, this matters, so what's next? Like being that speedy Gonzales and just looking sometimes overly enthusiastic or desperate I would say Desperate for a change. So so slowing down, that can help as well. Anything that comes to your mind, emma, that you know that works for you to come across as more confident or assertive, yeah I think I think you see what you did there, can I, can I just catch you here.
Speaker 1So you said, I think, and you were thinking you were not sure because I caught you off guard, right, yes, well, and then I had something in yes, and then I had something in my mind, and then it like disappeared, flew out of my head.
Speaker 2That is the best example when someone comes into those meetings unprepared or not sure, and I love that you did that, because we I like you see that that was a question that you did not expect. So of course you're slowed down. You think you'll say I guess this is not what we want to have when we go into those meetings, when we need to be an ambulance right, that's right.
Speaker 1Yes, that would be quite bad if an ambulance is like which way am I going exactly? Do I go this way? Do I go that way where? What am I doing?
Speaker 2yeah no, we don't want to go. That, yeah, no, we don't want to be that we don't want to be that okay.
Speaker 2So being sounding like you have the conviction very much, also showing that you have a belief in your people, that is the final thing that I would say that is very much needed to be respected and to be perceived as someone who knows their shit right. So, for example, if you want to give someone feedback and we all know that feedback it is that beautiful gift, even though it's stinging horrible, but it's needed. Emma, if I wanted to give you feedback, I could say something like I'm telling you this I'm giving you feedback because I know that you can handle it. I believe in you, I know you want to grow, I know you're someone who is open. Or, if we discuss I do that a lot with my coachees who prepare for managing somebody's performance and when someone is, for example, being uncivil, when I help them to prepare for those conversations and those little phrases like, for example, this is behavior that that we observed and I know you're better than that. Like I know this is not a professional you want to be, because I know you, you're a fantastic professional, so I that is out of character. I don't understand why this happened, but I know that you're better than this those little things just make people like, yes, yes, of course I don't want to let you down, like I am better than that. It's very effective, very effective A show that believe in people, I think, and being very inviting, and it's something that maybe you noticed, emma, when I talk to you or when we have our podcast recordings.
Practical Phrases for Effective Leadership
Speaker 2When I talk to you, or when we have our podcast recordings, when I talk to my coaches, I don't want to force people into anything, because I believe they've got their autonomy and freedom to choose. I want to open the door for them and show them that I think this is the right path and I'm going to support you on that path, but I'm inviting them. So what leaders can say is I'm inviting you to make this place better with me, that we can do it together.
Speaker 1So that's invitation yeah.
Speaker 2How does that sound?
Speaker 1I love that, I really love that.
Speaker 2Is that enough? Did we give enough to this listener? I think this is like we're more joking than working.
Speaker 1No, I think, in between all of that, I think there was some really, really useful and valuable tips and and I what I really like is those little phrases that you can just, you know, take and then use them when you need to, because sometimes it's really hard to sort of articulate something in a particular way, and so if you've got those little phrases in your back pocket where you can just, you know, whip them out when the time requires, again, that just helps to build your confidence, because you're like well, I wasn't searching around for the right words. I, you know, I had them ready, I knew what I was going to say.
Speaker 2Yes, oh, I'm glad that we did talk about it. Let's just summarize then. I think people liked a little bit of a summary of those phrases. So what did we say? We said that we avoid those I guess and write. We say, in my professional opinion, from my perspective, those I guess and right. We say, in my professional opinion, from my perspective also, you can say, having spent a lot of time researching and analyzing the situation, is what I concluded.
Speaker 2So you just state that as it is. We are not guessing, we're not asking for what we're thinking. You can slow down. You can also say I am open to brainstorming, to a debate about that. We can definitely do it together. Another thing is that I know that you are that type of person who wants to grow, or I know that I can give you feedback because you can handle this. So that's very useful and I'm inviting you to do it together and do you want to succeed? And do you do you trust me in this? And I think suppose, if there's, if they don't trust you we've got a bit of a pickle in here and I think that's a topic for another podcast episode but hopefully they do trust you as their leader. Okay, so are you ready, emma, to step outside of your comfort zone and bring new ideas to even the most stubborn, challenging members of your team? What do you think?
Speaker 1always, absolutely love it. I'm always up for that challenge. So I'm an ideas girl, so I have I always have lots of ideas and, yeah, it is just a matter of getting them across to the team and, you know, getting that buy-in and, yeah, being heard, you know, without anyone feeling like, oh, she's just telling me what to do again.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And this is where that why comes in.
Speaker 2When they understand you, they will listen to you more. So I would like to invite all of you, our lovely listeners, to try it out, to believe in what you want to convey to them, to be loud when it's needed because you deserve to be loud. You were hired to be loud. That is your job, so you have a right to be loud, and I invite you to become a human savvy leader.