Season 2, Episode 7: 4 Types of Conflict & How To Address Them

In this episode, Dr Liv and Dr Emma help a new leader tame a challenging business partnership with a person who resists change and has the attitude of "we've always done it this way."

(click here to contact / learn more about Dr Liv Oginska >>> )

(click here to contact / learn more about Dr Emma McConnell >>> 

Immerse yourself in the following topics:
• Understanding the four types of conflict: task, process, status, and relationship
• Establishing equal standing when there's a significant age gap in a partnership
• The importance of articulating your unique strengths and value to the business
• Recognising complementary skills and why partners need each other
• How to distinguish between what's under your control versus your partner's
• Clarifying shared values and goals to reduce friction
• Acknowledging that feeling anxious about difficult conversations is normal

Listen now to transform how you approach leadership in unfamiliar territory and turn your outsider perspective into your greatest strength.

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Transcript

Young Gym Owner Seeks Partnership Advice

Speaker 1 0:55

Hi, emma, it's good to see you. How are you today?

Speaker 2 0:59

Hello Liv, I'm really good today. Thank you, very excited for this episode too.

Speaker 1 1:06

Yes, we've got so many topics so far and I always wonder is it going to be something new, something we haven't discussed so far? But let's see.

Speaker 2 1:15

I suppose let's give it a go. Tell me, I think you're going to like this one, dear Human Savvy. I'm a weight's. Give it a go. Tell me, I think you're going to like this one, dear human savvy. I'm a weightlifting coach and a gym owner. I bought into the business six months ago as it's always been my goal to own the place where I can help people perform at the highest level, but also remain healthy and enjoy the journey. I'm relatively young for a gym owner I'm 23, but I've spent the last 10 years training with the best, most progressive coaches and, inspired by them, I'd like to start building something of my own. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough resources to set up the gym from scratch, so I became someone's partner.

Speaker 2 1:58

My co-owner is a nice guy, but he also has strong opinions. I didn't see it before becoming his partner, but turns out that the man loves controlling everything. He's okay with me setting up the training program, but when it means changing the setup of the place, buying new equipment or changing the schedule and staff duties, he shows a lot of resistance. His favourite saying is we've always done it this way and don't repair what isn't broken. It annoys me and hinders my plans. I don't want to be disrespectful towards my business partner. He has 25 years of experience in the industry, but I feel like I need to fight my case. To make things even more complicated, he is a friend of my father. I honestly don't know how to even begin managing this situation.

Understanding Conflicts in Business Relationships

Speaker 1 2:50

Oh, this poor guy. What a long letter as well like there's a lot of things happening. Yes, I mean you can definitely tell that this is a problem that is really affecting him deeply yeah, yeah, he starts like, if I remember correctly, he starts with describing why he wanted that in the first place. So that's like passion. Yeah, what did he say? Like, what was the goal?

Speaker 2 3:23

Well, he was firstly inspired by some of the coaches that he's had in the past. He wants to build something of his own, so I guess it's having that legacy, but also really wants to own a place where he can help people perform at their highest level. Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 3:41

So definitely a passionate person, and clearly motivated, yeah, motivated, and this is what we love seeing. Actually, I'm so glad that we get letters from people who are motivated, who care a lot, and it's actually something I see in my clients and coaches so much, and it's beautiful, beautiful, honestly, because only if someone cares they come to get help and more coaching, which is kind of the opposite of what people very often think. That's that, oh, if I I'm really devoted and I care I should handle myself, I should ask for help, I should be fully into it. But the best athletes out there, they get coachings. Why? Because they can't so much.

Speaker 2 4:22

yeah, as speaking of the coaches right the weightlifting coach. I know this is where you said I'm gonna like it. Yeah, I knew you would like it. This is right up your alley it is.

Speaker 1 4:32

It is very much um, okay, well, let's, let's help this young gentleman at 23 which is interesting, that his business partner has more years of experience than actually that he actually is. Yeah, that is very tough, okay. So for this gentleman, I assumed, I think, yes, I think, is a gentleman, um, at least the author of our letter, and then there's is the his business partner. For our listener, for the author, I think what would be very useful is to go back to our previous episode when we talk about speaking in the assertive way, because I'm sensing in here that is hard to get um his point across and get through to that business partner. So definitely, our lovely listener, please go back to that episode. It is.

Speaker 1 5:26

There's so much information about sounding in a confident way. So, absolutely, um, we use that analogy of being loud and it's needed and you deserve to be loud, even when you're're much, much younger half of this person's age. I suppose you deserve to be listened to. Okay, so I'm hearing that there is some area that the author of this letter can control, is allowed to be in charge of, and there are some areas where they probably have a conflict, they don't get on well with one another or there's just some resistance, how he said that, um, and I think it's very important to in any situation where we have partners in any business in, and so interesting, because even you and I we do it right.

Speaker 1 6:16

Even today, we're talking about how we divide those business-related things because we don't want to have any resentment, any friction between ourselves. It's very important to be extremely open about the things that we want to do, our desires, our hopes for the business, but also to talk about the things that can be potentially troublesome because they might be areas where our power overlaps, where our controls are in friction in here. And I suppose this partner was looking for a business partner for a reason again. So our young chap he was not employed but he was accepted as a partner for a reason. Do you think I'm sensing correctly that there was a goal?

Speaker 2 7:08

Yes, absolutely, and I guess the interesting thing here is that the older business partner is friends with the younger new business partner's dad, so there's obviously some longer standing relationship. That's clearly influencing their relationship now, because probably from the older partner's perspective he's probably looking at his new business partner as a kid, right? Yeah, I suppose so which is? Why he probably feels that he has the final say, that he's the senior partner and the new one is the junior partner.

Speaker 1 7:56

Yeah, there's a high chance for that. So what comes to my mind is to I think this is a classic case of a conflict and again, we know that conflict is a part of our life. Either it's like gigantic capital C conflict or a little conflict. It is still a conflict and we don't have to be scared of it. Of course, it's difficult for the author of this letter because he's deeply immersed there. I suppose he feels like he's hitting the wall. He gets frustrated, like he said. Even I'm getting really frustrated. So it doesn't seem fair to him. And that is the best sign of being in a conflict, when someone thinks, oh, this is not fair. So let's talk about conflict.

Speaker 1 8:39

There are many different ways to categorize conflict and, um, yes, we can choose whichever really is best for us. For me, as someone who is a conflict mediator and I help people resolve that um on a daily basis, really those big and small conflicts I think it's very clear to understand what type of conflict that is, and the categorization that I like is the four types of conflict. So the first one is the task conflict. So what are we aiming for? What is the ultimate goal? What is the task that we need to do so. That is maybe in their case. It would be having a profitable gym to maybe take care of people Like I don't know. Do you think they have actually the same goal in mind, based on what we know so far?

Four Types of Conflict Explained

Speaker 2 9:28

I mean, that's the million dollar question. You almost get the sense, reading between the lines, that perhaps the goals are not quite aligned, that perhaps the goals are not quite aligned, granted, we don't really know the age of the older business partner. You know, what generation are they from? Because, again, obviously there's going to be quite big like generational gaps in how people look at goals and things like that. You know, service versus purely financial. So so there may well be quite a big divide. We're only assuming, we don't know it's interesting.

Speaker 1 10:12

So how about we approach helping this person, the author of this letter? He even said that I don't know how to begin managing the situation. I think we all need to start with the areas of unknown either something we think might be the misconceptions, or what is it that we do not know about this relationship, does that? How does that sound to you? Shall we make a list of questions?

Speaker 2 10:36

yes, absolutely, because I think that's probably what he really needs help with is just how do I get started, how do I get these conversations going, what approaches can I use where I'm actually heard and seen on an equal playing field, like equal level?

Speaker 1 10:56

yeah for sure, Okay. So, guys, our dear listeners, when you face any conflict whatsoever, the first thing we need to ask ourselves what type of conflict is it? Is it that task conflict, the one that we already described? So what is the goal? Do we have the same goal in mind? So, our lovely listener, author of this letter, I would offer to you and invite you to write down the question. That would sound something like do we want the same thing? Do we have the same goal in mind? And it's definitely something that hopefully you discussed before you agreed. Fingers crossed hopefully you can't see emma which is like all the fingers crossed like, oh my god, please tell me. You did that. Hopefully you kind of know, but maybe you need to just clarify better and more precisely we can can see that the author of this letter is really important to build a place that brings the highest level of coaching, but it's good for people. They can enjoy the journey.

Speaker 1 11:59

So I suppose he mentioned something about equipment. In order to get that, the equipment is needed right, need it right. So in order to enjoy it. Yes, we could use disgusting rusty kettlebells that when you use them, then your hands smell like metal for the rest of the day. But is it really enjoyable? Is it something that we want to get? So I think it's important to find out whether both partners in that business, they actually are interested in bringing a really joyful journey to their clients. So that's the task. But speaking of that, let's say the equipment buying, making choices about what we buy. That is where we go to that different type of conflict, which is the process. So let's say we have the same outcome in mind. We both want to have, let's say, profitable business and happy clients. Right, it's a classic goal of a lot of businesses, but the process how to get there very different.

Speaker 2 13:01

Many different ways.

Speaker 1 13:04

Yes, yes, I think even for us, for you and I, Emma, I think we have different backgrounds. We are obviously different human beings yes, we are both veterinary professionals and both women but I'm sure there's other things that make us a little bit different. Do you think even we could sometimes have a different path in mind, even though we have the same goal? What do you think?

Speaker 2 13:32

Definitely, and I think, because we have different strengths and we have different skill sets, so we absolutely have one common goal, but absolutely the way that we would get there. If you were to ask us say you're just presenting us with a task outcome, this is the outcome you need to achieve, we would absolutely provide very different answers on how we would get there. Yes, yeah, I think so too.

Speaker 1 14:00

Like if it was before we had a discussion.

Speaker 1 14:03

Yeah, it's so cool because actually, like you said, I love the word word strengths that use in there and we have different talents, like anyone who knows me knows that absolutely suck at anything marketing related. I I feel embarrassed and terrible even talking about my prices and so, oh, I dread that I it took me very, very long time to value myself, to, to even ask for the, the fees that would reflect all the training that I did and experience. Gosh, it took so much time. Whereas you own your business for longer, you've gone through your own journey and for you some things are more natural and more obvious and it just comes to you more naturally, whereas for me such cringe. But I love that about us because you help me grow and hopefully I'm giving something to you as well yes, well, you give me a lot oh, that's good, good to hear.

Speaker 1 15:08

Good to hear, then, um, but yeah, having different strengths, and in the process strengths come to the surface very much. So, our lovely listener, another question we have for you that maybe you need to ponder on yourself or ask your business partner is what strengths are you bringing into this business? I think it's quite obvious from this letter that this the youngster, he brings the best level of coaching, um, enthusiasm, that motivation, the need to grow, and his business partner might be not only different generation, because I'm a little bit against kind of um talking about those generational differences. I think people are a little bit too complex to boil it down, to do it's like it becomes a stereotype, right? But definitely there is a differences between people of different age, I think, even simply because they're in a different life stage, right.

Speaker 1 16:13

So this guy I don't know if he necessarily he's married, he's got a big family? Probably not yet, whereas the older business partner maybe he just literally just would like to have some peace and a stable business. Finally some. Yeah, just take a breath.

Speaker 2 16:30

He doesn't want to hustle anymore this is very true.

Speaker 2 16:31

Yeah't want to hustle anymore. Very true. Yeah, absolutely that's very true. I guess the it's just when you were talking about the strengths. I guess that's a really nice way that the new business partner can not only demonstrate his value, which I'm sure his partner already knows and appreciates it's why they're partners in the first place, because he knows the value that he brings but it probably is also a way of sort of him kind of leveling up almost not that he needs to, but in the eyes of the older business partner, you know, that's a way where he can really show actually we are partners, we're equal partners and we're on the same level. Because this is what I bring to the table I guess it's not 25 years of business experience, but it's energy, it's motivation, it's fresh ideas. You know that in itself has so much value.

Speaker 1 17:36

There is so much and I wonder whether the author of this letter even knows why that partner decided to go into business with him. So, our lovely listener, find out. What is it. Let's say you're talking to John. John. John, why did you want to be in this partnership?

Building on Different Strengths

Speaker 1 17:52

Hopefully it wasn't just a favor to my dad why did you choose me out of maybe some other people who wanted to be in a business with you? What is it that you think I bring to the table? I know what I bring to the table and this is where being that assertiveness and having the conviction is very important. So again, take a look at the listen to the previous episode. It can be very helpful, but you need to have that conviction why you're valuable, why it's important to listen to you in here. So once we talk about those strengths and why we're here, we can then talk about ways how to get that, how to get to that goal, even when the goal is slightly different. So, let's say, the older business partner definitely just wants to have some peace and he doesn't want to hustle anymore, but he wants to have a profitable business. And for the younger business partner it is, yes, also profitable business, but also, people have a fantastic journey. It's impossible to have a profitable business without actually giving some joy to the clients, because no?

Speaker 1 18:54

one has a mountain. Well, there's not that many masochists who would just go to the gym to suffer and have metal smelling hands at the end of the day and pay good money for the privilege Right exactly.

Speaker 1 19:06

So there is definitely some overlap and you probably need to find where it is and see how one feeds into another. I think that's very important. That reminds me of some of my coaches who are in a business together, and one of them was very much finance oriented and numbers oriented and sometimes that embracing that human aspect, that kind of the fluffy aspect, fluffy aspect right, was a bit harder for that person to to prioritize really. And the other business partner was very, very much human oriented, very empathetic, very much attuned to the people, focus on the culture, sometimes the people pleasers. Yeah, there are pros and cons of everything and and for them they had a lot of friction. It was very hard to understand one another and move forward. What helped them very much was to see that they needed one another. They wouldn't survive if everyone was just like one or the other. Yeah, I think it's the case in here as well.

Speaker 2 20:07

You guys need each other.

Speaker 1 20:09

Emma, do we need?

Speaker 2 20:09

each other Absolutely. We need each other, Emma do. We need each other Absolutely, we need each other.

Speaker 1 20:14

I need you, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 20:18

No, we definitely could not do this on our own. So, yes, we're absolutely, absolutely, both integral and essential parts of the business. Wonderful.

Speaker 1 20:30

And that brings us also to that. The third type of conflict that can be it, which is connected to what we said about strength, is the status. So sometimes people can be in a conflict because they don't believe that either. Well, this is not my job, I shouldn't be doing that. I'm kind of above my status, above this task, or maybe it's a very impactful task, something very much desired, and two people think that they deserve to have that task, to maybe have that privilege. So there might be conflict there. Village, so there might be conflict there, and in here that's very tricky because that older business partner might actually treat our younger person in more like a fatherly way, kind of like an uncle, and that is not an equal status. So in order to get to that equality of the status, which is crucial in here, they need to talk about those strengths and what they bring to the table, go back to the fact that we need one another. I don't know if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 21:36

Yeah, absolutely, yep, yeah, I mean, that's absolutely critical, isn't it, if they're to move forward and for the younger partner to be comfortable in this new role, right?

Speaker 1 21:47

mm for sure, if we think that we are worse than someone we're, or that we feel disrespected, not important, oh, there's no psychological safety and no creativity and it's just like a threat, constant threat. So that is really bad. And speaking of the threat, there's that fourth type of conflict, which is the relationship. So let's say, emma, if you and I, if we didn't like one another but we were forced to be in a business together, of course there would be frictions, because I would think that your, um, the assumptions would be there, right, like I would think you have a bad intention. Um, gosh, can you imagine like being? I know?

Speaker 1 22:27

that would be horrible oh gosh. But there are people like that right, Because we can't choose with whom we work Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2 22:39

That would be incredibly challenging. Yeah, I feel like I've been very lucky that I've never been in a position like that thankfully In general.

Addressing Status and Relationship Issues

Speaker 1 22:51

So like maybe you never had a business partner that you didn't like, but was there anyone who you didn't like just in general in your team? Like I'm sure you work with someone who wasn't necessarily a cup of tea.

Speaker 2 23:03

There's lots of people I don't like.

Speaker 1 23:06

Okay, I'm just checking. I don't know, maybe you're a saint, You're just like everyone.

Speaker 2 23:12

Yes, I am a saint. No, no, there's definitely like, lots of people I don't necessarily like or I wouldn't choose to be friends with them, but it hasn't been to the point where I'm like, like I really don't like you.

Speaker 1 23:26

That's good, okay, okay, okay, that's it. It's interesting because with that relationship conflict, it could either be present from the beginning, so there was some friction, and then, based on that friction, there's even more friction. That we don't agree then on the task or on the process or the state is because it becomes very apparent in that situation, or the relationship conflict follows those first three types of conflict. So maybe we were getting on well with one another, but we really couldn't find a way forward about that process, how we do it, and we have that resentment. Our relationships suffers. Does that make sense? How that, either at the beginning or at the end.

Speaker 2 24:12

Yes, yep, it's either there at the initiation or it develops over time in response to other conflicts.

Speaker 1 24:20

Yeah, so it's kind of at the background. It is at the background that relationship conflict. So another question that we would like to invite the author of this letter, um, is this one do we have a good relationship? Is there any disrespect? Is there some sort of different source of friction? Was it actually a good friend of your father? Was it maybe not such a good friend of your father? Maybe they've got some beef that you were given and passed on from your father. We don't know. Gosh, a lot of dramas can happen between friends, and including some really naughty stuff. So find out, like, what is your relationship with? What do you feel towards him? And you can even ask so listen, how do you see our relationship? Is this something that I'm doing that makes you feel uncomfortable, something that annoys you? Simply, we need to be brave and ask those questions. Am I doing something that annoys you, emma? Am I doing something that annoys you?

Speaker 1 25:25

no no, you can be honest. No, I would definitely tell you, but no this is why I was not too worried to ask you, because I know you would tell me. You would tell me, of course I would tell you guys. Imagine that she suddenly says okay, let me just take my list.

Speaker 2 25:43

I was gonna say where would you like me to start? How long have we got?

Speaker 1 25:52

oh, okay, so four types of conflict. Um, hopefully that is clear for everyone listening. And another thing that I would like to invite this listener to do is to ask yourself are there any misconceptions that I might have about the situation? Or maybe this person, the other person, john, has about me? So am I telling myself some sort of negative story? And that, of course, ignites a lot of unpleasant emotions in here, makes our chimp chimpy, and is there a chance that John has some stories about me?

Speaker 1 26:28

So we need to clarify that. So what sort of conflict that is? And all those elements that will tell us about what is missing. What is the gap there that causes the friction between us? So that's a great start. Is there, on the emotional level, something that causes more friction? So what are those stories that we are telling ourselves about the other person? And also to move forward, I would strongly recommend to you guys to do that radical responsibility exercise, when you sit down and you write down what is within my area of control and power, what is going to be under my control, what is going to be under your control, and when you see that sometimes it overlaps, we plan how we approach it. So we are prepared.

Speaker 2 27:21

Easier said than done, right yes, definitely, but I but it is good having sort of well-defined areas for which you are responsible for within a business, because then you know what you're supposed to be doing, but you also know what can be expected from your partner, and again it plays to your strengths. So I mean that's yeah, I mean that's kind of essential for a functional working relationship. Yes, for sure.

Speaker 1 27:56

And I think again, this is why we work so well, because we're like okay, you're planning our symposium, You're organizing all the logistics. It's like have fun, enjoy, and I know that you do enjoy it.

Speaker 2 28:11

Yes, absolutely yes. Yes, you just turn up on the 20th and do your thing.

Speaker 1 28:16

I'll take care of everything oh, by the way, guys, for those who don't know what right it does it does, you don't know what? What we're talking about, goodness, we are organizing a human service symposium, which is in WA, in Perth, in Australia, and it's in 2025. So, if you're listening to this episode, in 2030, hopefully that year we're organizing the fifth symposium Absolutely and hopefully, yeah, there'll be one in every state.

Speaker 2 28:51

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely and hopefully. Yeah, there'll be one in every state. So, absolutely, if you're in Australia, you'll be, you'll definitely be able to able to come to one, for sure, and also, one in the UK.

Action Steps for Better Partnership

Speaker 1 28:59

So, guys, plans are big um, but I think we can make those plans, that they are big plans because we work on that relationship. Like we do have those difficult conversations between one another and like, of course it's not perfect. Like guys don't don't think that's this, like we've got a perfect business relationship but uh um, it's worth it, it's worth going through that discomfort. I don't know if you agree with me no, no, definitely, and it does, it just makes it more functional, doesn't it so?

Speaker 2 29:35

and we get things done. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 29:40

The thing that really helps and that is the final thing that would invite the author to this letter is do we have the same values? Do we actually think that maybe being always honest or maybe having a really, really strong sense of duty matters? Do we have that integrity? So think about your own values, our lovely author of this letter. What do you value the most? And talk about those with your partner, and we can approach life differently. We can see different ways of doing things. However, if something is an absolute must have and we need to live up to it and we need to embody that quality, that needs to happen for me and for Emma, for us to feel authentic in that relationship, and the same needs to happen for those two partners in that fantastic weightlifting gym, because if they have very different values, one of them will feel very uncomfortable, unfortunately. Okay, do we talk about everything? Anything else? What do you think for?

Speaker 2 30:55

for this being so. I mean, we've given the author of this letter, in my opinion, some really great advice as to where he can start, and and it's a way that he can start approaching this with some confidence.

Speaker 1 31:14

Hopefully, hopefully. I was just thinking about that emotional side, Like our lovely listener, if you're worried and you're stressed about it, this is so normal. It's not. It doesn't mean that you are weak in any way, especially being 23 years old. We might think that I shouldn't be so worried. I shouldn't be. I should be able to convey what I want to convey. Oh goodness me. People. For the rest of their lives, they struggle with things like that. So there's nothing wrong about you. This is what I wanted to say. Nothing wrong about you. This is what I wanted to say.

Speaker 1 31:57

Okay, so, guys, if that was something that maybe resonated with other people out there in the audience, if there's something that you would like to add, if there is something that worked for you, we would love you to share that with us. We're open to feedback and, as you could hear in this episode, definitely also, emma and I. We are working on this relationship, and relationships are messy and complicated, but we strive to be human savvy and it's tough but it's worth it. So we wish that to all of you as well to work hard towards becoming human savvy and having human savvy relationships.