Season 3, Episode 3: Special Guest - Dr Guy Sandelowsky

🎙️ New Episode of the Human-Savvy Podcast is here! 

This time, I had the honour and joy of interviewing an old friend and a real Dragon Slayer 🐉

(Honestly, I’m BUZZING)

 Dr. Guy Sandelowsky MBA is a veterinarian, entrepreneur, and founder of Omni Pet | B Corp™. He is one of the most authentic people that I have ever met. Despite facing a plethora of challenges on his trail-blazing professional journey, Guy has always remained unapologetically himself. 

In this conversation, Guy shares with us the #lessons learnt on his leadership journey, as well as his #emotionaltriggers and attitude towards #criticism. He also reveals a shocking #truth about the homophobic "glass ceilings" that he encountered as an entrepreneur. 

What is more, Guy and I did a deep dive into our professional journeys, and we discovered multiple things in common…

🐉 the need for #autonomy and creativity so strong that it drives a person towards seemingly bizarre or unreachable goals

🐉the appreciation for the power of #community

🐉the love for living life fully and authentically

Even though neither of us spends much time cutting bones anymore 🪚 , it turns out that slaying Dragons (as cool & powerful ones as 🐲 Steven Bartlett and 🐲 Deborah Meaden) and dissecting leaders’ #emotionalintelligence have become our separate, new ways of finding fulfilment. Each of us spent the last 5-7 years intentionally building the lives that we truly wanted to live.

Was it easy? Nope.

Was it worth it? Hell yes.

If you are a deeply purpose-driven person who makes courageous decisions, opens themselves to feedback and takes care of your tribe… everything is possible

We’d love to hear your thoughts after tuning in!

Click here to find a plethora of leadership resources connected to the Human-Savvy Podcast Episodes >>>> 

Do you have any questions for Human-Savvy? 

Are you a leader or professional in need of advice on interpersonal dynamics, team leadership, or other related areas? We are here to help you! 

Please send your letter to info@behumansavvy.com with the title "Dear Human-Savvy..." and we promise to fully anonymise it and record an episode entirely devoted to tackling your challenge!

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Transcript

From Surgeons to Founders

The Surprise of Co‑Founding

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Hi everyone, welcome to the Human Savvy Podcast. Today I am over the moon to introduce you to Dr. Guy Sandlovsky. He's someone who I've known for a very long time, and it feels like we met before both our lives changed completely. Guy is a veterinarian, he's an entrepreneur and founder of Omni. He's very successful and he recently gained the support of the Dragons from the Dragons Den, which is absolutely amazing. It's such an honor to talk to Guy because he brings something very special to the table, the level of authenticity that you don't always see among our colleagues, entrepreneurs, in the world of medicine, in the world of business, where we need to put a certain mask sometimes to be accepted, to be liked, to be successful. Guy is himself, and I absolutely love that about him. I really hope that you will enjoy this conversation. And before we dive in, I need to add one more thing. In this episode, Guy mentions a certain tennis tournament, which before our conversation, he had never won. However, things have changed. Huge congratulations to Guy, who won the singles tournament. And on that successful note, I welcome you to this conversation. I hope that you will enjoy it. I feel like I'm meeting someone from my previous life, nearly. We met at the surgery course, right? And that was nearly 10 years ago. And look at us now. We're maybe not soft t-shirt orthopedic surgeons anymore, but uh I would say that we still do some cutting. I feel like I cut into humans' brains every day, and you definitely slay dragons. Look at us! Okay, let's crack on. I feel like even though we are both surgeons who will forever be forever surgeons, we are using very different skill sets now in our jobs. And I wonder if there was some sort of skill that you needed to gain, something that was very new to you, a skill that you needed to learn when you became an entrepreneur, leader, co-creator of a fantastic company. What do you think? Is there something new that you needed to develop in your life?

SPEAKER_01 3:35

That's interesting. I think the biggest surprise for me was that I wanted to start my own venture, my own business, and I didn't envisage that I would have uh a co-founder, so somebody who is sort of starting that on an equal incentive and playing field to me. Um that was something I didn't expect. And I think I thought I could sort of manage alone and just sort of be the founder of a company and then hire a team, and then it would all flow. In the end, I ended up with Shiv, who he comes from a finance background, and we I started to realize that our skill sets and were quite synergistic. I look at the world and problems very differently to him, perhaps because of my veterinary background. Um, and he and I ended up really complementing each other, I think, as founders and as leaders. So that was probably my my biggest surprise, um, to be honest, if you had asked me before I started Omni, like would I be co-founding the business with a banker? I would have said absolutely not. Um, and here I am, and now I don't think I would have changed that. You know, I wouldn't want to do it alone because being a leader is lonely, actually. And creating something big is incredibly tough. And having somebody that's right there with you through the highs and lows, that's so, so powerful. So yeah, I don't think I would do it alone, actually. Even if I was to start again, I think I would still look for a shiv or a shiv equivalent.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

That's very interesting. Because when I think about professionals, many professionals out there, medical, veterinary, or any other profession, we are very often taught to be self-sufficient, especially if you are a clinician. We need to be responsible for our decisions. So there it is a heavy burden on our own shoulders, and we are taught that we need to sort it out ourselves without somebody's help. And now when you have a founder, co-founder, someone who does that with you, you share the responsibility, it must be a very different experience. So, what is about Shiv that you love the most? What makes him your person and makes you guys collaborate so well?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

In the vet world, there is a lot of complexity to dealing with, you know, work culture, client expectations, complexity of cases, just not knowing what's wrong with the animal, you know, and trying your best to get to a solution quickly and economically for the client. And what many years in practice did to me was made me incredibly reflective, but also a little bit self-doubting because you know what you don't know. Like you know how small you are in the world and how much knowledge there is and how much how many studies there are. And I started to become a little bit over-reflective at times. So just to give you an example, um, you know, should a dog go have an x-ray, or should we start treatment, or should we do a surgical exploration? Sometimes I would deliberate so much about all the options that it would almost drive me crazy and I wouldn't be decisive. And what Shiv is, which I really like and value, is complete opposite to that, like almost borderline, careless decision making compared to how I was in the clinic. So, yeah, I read this, this feels good, let's go here. And that's been really helpful because I'm always the one in our relationship that will hold us back about things like trying to think, trying to think of all the problems. But he's always trying to just be decisive and efficient and quick. Um, and so I think if it's too much one way or another, that can be a problem. Um, but I think we really balance each other out and we end up somewhere in the middle where we don't procrastinate for too long, but we also spend enough time considering all the angles.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

I love what you said about balancing each other out. I suppose this is what any relationship aims for. We are in a relationship, in a collaboration for that reason, so we are better when we are together in it actually. And I suspect another aspect of it is to truly truly trust one another. Is it fair to say that you truly trust Sheith?

Earning and Maintaining Trust

SPEAKER_01 8:29

I think you earn trust over time, and we've had moments where we've had to trust each other, you know, because yeah, we need each other and um there aren't other options. And in those moments when push comes to shove, we've been there for each other. So we I think we've earned each other's trust, but I think that trust isn't given for granted. I think it needs to continually be um proven out through your behavior, how we treat each other in front of key stakeholders, making sure that the other's being listened to and heard. And I think it can slip if there are issues that aren't dealt with. So we're actively working on maintaining that trust and just the relationship in general. But like on your point of leadership being lonely, I think the biggest thing that maybe again I didn't expect was when you are at the helm of an organization, it's also your duty to, you know, on the one hand, tell people about what's going on, but on the other hand, you need to keep morale up, you need to be positive. Whatever's going on in your life, like as much as your team might care about you, like they've got their own problems, they're trying to sort out their lives. And so it was hard to it can be lonely when you sort of feel like, okay, I can't let that into work, but work is all I do because that work's my life. And that's where that lonely comment comes from. Because actually, in the end, you can't really let that out too much with the people you spend most of your time with, and you end up internalizing that or having to find, you know, other friends, family, whatever, um, who don't always get it as well, because unless you've done some crazy stuff and been on TV, pitching your business to celebrities and tried to raise money and been told no a million times before you were told yes and all that stuff, it's hard for people to relate, even if they care about you. They just haven't had those experiences. And so it feels like a big investment just to get just to try and explain where you're at so you don't bother sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Do you know what it sounds like? Um, I don't know if you ever watched some of those reality shows like Love is Blind's one of my guilty pleasures. It's a very, very interesting social experiment, actually, to watch as a psychologist. Um and those participants, they often say that they become very close with one another in those groups with people who were through the same experience because they are the only people who truly understand them. It's very hard to explain what happened to them to someone who's on the inside who never experienced that. So they won't have the same level of connection, level of understanding, level level of clarity when they explain what happened to them. And sometimes they just don't bother because they know that, like, yeah, no one will get me because they've never been through something like I've been through. So it sounds very much like that. Do you have a community guy? Someone with whom you can share experience, brainstorm, ask your advice, maybe, yeah, how does it work for you to have a support group?

Loneliness at the Top

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, I so when it comes to like work, community, and discussing work matters, I just talked to Shiv. Like he's both my business partner and my best friend, probably now, you know, after five years, because we just got so close. And so that's that's where I go if I want to talk about work. Occasionally I'll, you know, speak to my partner or my family, but I don't know. I've never really felt true interest from other founders. I feel like everyone's just in their own little world trying to do their own thing. And but beyond pleasantries and introductions, I think people just disengage. So yeah, I find that I get that from Shiv. And then I think my main community is my sort of non-work life. Um, and that's where I completely escape from work and professional things, and I just have fun, I do exercise, I'm have a community that I do sports with, for example, and and sometimes we'll talk about work there, but it's pretty top level still. Like I don't bore people with the deep ins and outs.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Gosh, I totally get you. I feel the same with my crossroad community where people ask me, How are you live? And I want to tell them, especially when I had a bit of a harder day or when I had a fantastic day. But I don't really go too much into detail, if you know what I mean. Um I don't want to bore them to death. I also don't want to maybe worry them. And they are there for me no matter what. So that is amazing, that sense of support and community. Even though I don't really explain to them every detail of my job, which my job is very strange and people don't get what I do. But I get it. I I get what you're saying. And another thing that I would like to find out from you, it's actually a question that I ask all of my guests at the beginning of this podcast. I suppose we just jump we jumped right into that memory lane, didn't we? The question is are you currently thriving or surviving? Which one is it for you?

Seeking Community and Support

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Oh, I'm 100% thriving. I've been thriving uh ever since I left my clinical job. I needed to do the clinical job. I needed to learn the discipline of the clinic, um, being a vet being a surgeon, going through vet school. But I felt so constrained by all the rules and walls around me throughout that whole period. You know, like where I had to study, where I had to live, where I wanted to work in the country, the hours I wanted to do, you know, the team, everything was basically felt like it was being forced upon me. And I had to, you know, so competitive to get in. You study where you're given a spot, um, getting that first job, it's so hard. Like you go where you're gonna get the right training, wherever that might be. Um you know, you might have colleagues that you don't get along with or you don't see eye to eye with. You have to work with them because you didn't build that team. You're, you know, um a cog in the big piece, in the big puzzle. So in those days, I really felt like I was building but not thriving. I was building myself up for the next phase. And ever since I left practice and I went to study again, I did an MBA, so like a business, it's called a master's of business administration. Um, but I it's basically just um a whistle stop tour through the world of business. I did mine in a year. And that was where I started to feel like I was thriving. I was my imagination was going wild. Like, what am I gonna do next? You know, the world is open. I have this experience, I have these skills, they're unique to me. But what am I gonna take those skills to as my next set? And then beyond that, like building the company and all of this stuff, whatever happens with Albany, whether it becomes the next household brand that we hear, like the Royal Canon or the Hills or whatever, or if it fizzles out, no one knows yet. But the journey, I'm definitely thriving. I'm learning new things, I'm traveling, you know, having incredible interactions with team investors, stakeholders. And yeah, I would definitely not say I'm surviving. Of course, it's hard, but I chose this type of life, which is very different from a more conventional, low-paced life. I chose this roller coaster. So I understand the highs and lows are part of that decision and that choice.

Thriving After Leaving Clinic

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Oh, that is so amazing to hear, honestly. Um, to hear that you thrive. And I'm hearing that word choice, I'm hearing the need for a lot of autonomy. I can very much relate to you. I feel like I spent many years being dependent on other people, being controlled, my days being controlled by the schedules, by how the company worked, and I didn't have any space for my autonomy and for my creativity as well. These are two of my big, really big values. So I can very much relate to that need for creating the world the way you want to have it, the way you want to see it. Did I catch it correctly that you have a strong need for your own freedom in your in your professional life?

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Yeah, no, that is fair. And I what I've also learned is that some people hate that. Some people don't want that freedom or that choice because it makes life too complicated for them. They have to worry about whether to go left or right. And I have people like that in my team, you know, I have people like that in my personal life. And I know that they just want more conventional, more like someone else is organizing all those aspects that we talked about for them and making the choices more limited. But yes, for me, that felt like surviving. That didn't feel like thriving. Thriving for me was where I was able to be creative, excuse what I do with my time, and build things I want to build.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Oh, I couldn't agree more. Um, okay, we talk about the thing that you like about Shiv the most. Now, I wonder if there is something and what is that thing that Shiv might really, really like about you? And then we can confirm with him. We can ask him the same question.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

I think the things oh, you're gonna interview Shiv next.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Oh, why not? Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

See, I see. I guess, I guess, why not? Um no, I I think the thing that Shiv loves most about me is probably also closely related to what he hates most about me. So I am incredibly thorough in the business. So I I have a lot of attention to small details, and that's helpful for him because he prefers to just step back and look at the sort of big picture side. And so I think he loves the fact that I am following through on all the smaller things that we have to do every day and making sure that the team is in a good place and having that capacity for those tasks, which I think he can do, but they don't, they're not the things he loves doing. But I also think that's what drives him crazy because sometimes he just wants to like steamroll, go ahead, he has an idea, he just wants to like get on with it. And I'm there being like, hang on, we can't do that, or this needs more thought. I don't want us to rush this or whatever. And that so he loves it when it's helping him, but he hates it when it's sort of getting in his way. Um, and that's the relationship we have.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

I'm hearing a lot of balancing each other out, and I think it's really good, right? Because uh you need someone like a little engine in that work relationship, someone who'll be pulling forward, but also someone who will be putting those healthy brakes on. It sounds like you're that um healthy break, um, and you're making more steady and maybe more detailed author. Um it's very interesting that you have it, and it's so good. I'm really happy to hear that for you. Now, my question is is there someone else who you think played a really important role in creating your company in making Omni the way it is today? Is there someone who you would like to thank? Maybe you never had a chance to say thank you, or just to mention them. Yeah, what do you think? Is there someone else who deserves our attention today?

Freedom, Autonomy, and Fit

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Yeah, for for sure. I think a lot of people who are would, you know, who sell a product in a business would maybe have like an engineer or a scientist that co-created the product that they might mention. But honestly, for me, like I don't think we have the perfect products. I don't think we'll ever have the perfect products. And I think that's what our competitive advantage is, is that we don't sort of spend three years and then launch something and say, there you go, enjoy. This is the best thing you'll ever see. We actually take a different approach in what we develop at Omni, and we see that there's a problem and we try and get a solution out there quickly. Um, and obviously, we some expertise has to go into that to make sure the product is safe and works and all the rest. Um, but then that's not the end of that product. So then we sell it, we listen, and we iterate. Uh so we test, we learn, and we go back and test again. And I'm sure that process is going to keep happening because there's always ways to improve products, you know, um, to make them more effective. And so actually, if I had to choose one person to thank, it's the customer. Um, because they're the ones that guide what happens to Omni. They're the ones who tell us, okay, this product worked really well, but I'm missing, I don't know, uh a wet food version of it. Or this supplement was great, but do you not do a food that I can use with this supplement that has the same properties? And we're like, okay, no, we don't. Um, but we can make that. Would you like a sample and let us know what you think when we do it? Yes, that sounds great. Um, and that's the cycle. So actually, if it didn't have the customer, I wouldn't be able to develop amazing products.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Okay, so it sounds like guys are the lovely customers of Omni, thank you so much. This is a time to say thank you to all of you for your feedback and everything that you express, you bring back to Omni. Thanks, guys. And I feel like it's a really large community out there. And it's good to know that they do have some constructive criticism towards you. I'm just thinking, because in the world of veterinarian in general, there are a lot of critics, so like there can be a lot of haters. There is a lot of feedback, but I don't know if it's always that useful. There there will be simply a lot of criticism out there. I don't know how you perceive that from your perspective, from Omni's perspective.

Strengths That Annoy and Align

SPEAKER_01 23:13

No, I feel like the vet community is like particularly critical. Also, like, and I think a lot of us that have been clinical, probably not just in veterinary, in human medicine as well, it's hard for us to be criticized. Um, and I see it, you know, on Facebook or Meta, there are groups of communities of vets, and people will ask questions or you know, screenshot things that are new, and the level of critique is crazy. But actually, if you're able to flip that and be like, okay, these are really interesting opinions, what can we like take from this? Like, you know, all this critique, it's not always bad. Uh, it can be used to actually get the winning outcome. But I do just like as a general gripe, I do think that we need to be more open-minded as a profession. I think that's just like a general thing. I think we're very tough on ourselves and on each other. Um, and maybe not on the surface, but very quickly. I think there's like a very tough sort of um vibe going on in the vet world. That's how I feel it.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Oh, I I totally agree. And I feel like we open a little bit of a Pandora box in here because uh it really pains me to see the amount of criticism and hate in there without actually understanding the context, the being truly curious about what is hidden behind. I find it incredibly hard to understand why that criticism might be so immediate. And I feel like it's a bit of a lack of self-awareness and self-management, speaking the emotional intelligence terms that we really like in here on some people's part. And don't get me wrong, we all need to work on that. I need to work on it. You probably need to work on it on being very much self-aware, very much uh control how we show up to other people and to actually yeah, show up in our best version. But um I think like there is a big problem out there in a world and we could talk about it forever. But it it is impactful. It changes how people feel when they perform a task, when they uh hit that wall of reality that is out there. And that actually makes me wonder: do you feel like your team shares your perspective on that usefulness of feedback out there? Do they welcome it with arms wide open? Is there someone who struggles a little bit more with accepting that information, sometimes that hate, that goes back to Omni? What's the your team situation?

SPEAKER_01 25:45

I think if you're managing or leading a team, one tool that's very helpful is the use of these personality assessments. I don't know how familiar you are with them. I think they're called Myers Briggs.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Yes, that's one of them.

Thanking the Customer

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yeah, and we did one with our team very recently, actually. Um, and it's really, really telling because some people in your team through these tests, they will come out, you know, in the results section of the test, I'll say really struggles with criticism because they tend to take that personally. Or yeah, needs time to process criticism before or feedback so that they can formulate their thoughts or all sorts of interesting outcomes for different people. And so that's always been really helpful for us because now I know if I'm dealing with a certain um individual who seems just like everyone else, like super motivated, hardworking, and everything else, but I know that they're gonna take feedback personally. I know I have to um take that into account when I'm giving them feedback. So I might say, this is absolutely nothing to do with your effort or your skills, but this didn't work. We spent 5,000 pounds on this idea, it didn't work. Let's talk about why that might be. Um, even though we know it's not to do with you, let's try and see how we might then take those learnings to work out where we put your skills next. That sort of approach versus this didn't work. God, what a shame. What are we gonna do? Like, you know, there's a difference there, and knowing who you're dealing with and how they are best um sort of dealt with, I suppose, and managed is really important, I think.

Critique in the Vet Community

SPEAKER_00 27:38

It makes me really happy to hear that, you know, that because it's it shows me definitely that you're interested in your team and that's so cool, and you want to invest into understanding them deeper. It's not necessarily um it's not only about the personality traits. I much prefer the terms of the personality traits rather than profiles. But one thing that I love understanding about people, I think every leader should again a really good understanding of that is what triggers people. The emotional trigger is like I have my own, I'm sure you have your own. I'm gonna ask you about it in a second. But knowing what makes somebody's little inner chimp freak out, that emotional brain, what makes it throw bananas, it's really important. So, guy, let's let's be very honest and vulnerable here. And can you tell me, is there something that triggers your little inner chimp? What is your emotional trigger?

SPEAKER_01 28:36

I don't like ceilings. I don't like when somebody, you know, puts a ceiling above you because they think you're not the right type to get to a certain outcome. I use that as just motivation. I don't know if you follow tennis, but uh Novak Djokovic is a um top tennis player in the world, and he unfortunately gets a lot of booze from the audience, and he's not always the most popular popular player on court. Um, and he's been able to through various exercises, uh, mindfulness, meditation, and sort of other techniques, use that to motivate him to beat his opponent and bring out the best in him. Although the obvious outcome is that they're like, it makes you implode. And so I I just feel like that's an interesting analogy for me because you know, you do come across people who, you know, they judge you or they know something about him and think, okay, cool. Look, he, you know, he's never gonna make it, he's never gonna do, or he hasn't got the, he's not the right type or whatever. And those ceilings trigger me, but I try to channel that frustration into okay, I'm gonna prove them wrong. I'm gonna succeed and break the ceiling. Um, and so yeah, that would be my biggest trigger.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Uh, thank you so much for being so so open about it, you know, because um yes, it's very easy to have preconceived ideas. A lot of people have a lot of preconceived ideas about who we are based on our appearance purely and how we sound. And I can very much relate to that. A foreigner, female, young, uh, very bubbly, smiley, enthusiastic, curious, inquisitive, you know, all those things don't make you f look immediately very professional in a traditional sense of that word, but it doesn't mean that you're not capable. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't be taken seriously, and that can be very deceiving. There's actually that term in the world is uh called a stereotype tax, which means that people will See you, show up in a certain way, and they will have an assumption about you and they will maybe write you off straight away. But they're they lose in that situation. They lose that is the tax that they pay due to their assumptions. It's very interesting and it connects very much to what you're saying. And still it really makes me think that the way how we are perceived on the first look, just on the surface, it doesn't tell you the full story about what we can do and how capable we are.

Feedback, Triggers, and Team Tools

SPEAKER_01 31:27

For sure. Like I I, you know, I'm gay and I've had in the finance world, in the investment world, I've literally had deals break down because I'm gay. Like a hundred percent. Like I don't have, I don't have proof, but my opinion, 100% they've broken down because I'm gay. So imagine like, you know, you're a company, you want to raise 100,000 pounds from investors, you spend six months sharing materials, having calls with team, everything. And at the very end of that process, you just meet for the first time and you have a lunch together. And they asked you the question, like, oh, you know, do you have kids? Do you have a wife? And you say, No, I'm actually gay. Um, and I have a boyfriend. We don't have kids yet, and we're not married yet. The atmosphere change was immense, you know. Um, and they didn't invest. They didn't invest. You know, like a day later, they just said, Oh, you know, we've actually decided to change our investment thesis. I didn't say it was because of that, but there was nothing else. Like they were about to sign everything was perfect. And of course, I'm not saying that, you know, just to be clear, that that wasn't everyone. We've raised lots of capital from investors, very supportive investors who know a lot about us personally and in the world of business and who are our champions. But those ceilings exist. Um, people look at you and they judge you and think, okay, well, I don't want to do business with that type of person, or somebody from, like you said, like um whatever those factors may be, where you're from, your hair color, your personality, you know, there's all these things. Um so yeah, I've had real life examples of those ceilings.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

It's really hard to comprehend that someone Yeah. That it turned out that way. And I'm sorry that you went through this. It must have been difficult. I don't know if you thought about it much. It must have been painful. I think it would have been painful to me. And I obviously I don't want to impose my emotions and thoughts on you, but did you find it difficult at a time?

Breaking Ceilings and Bias

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Um probably at some level, yeah, but probably very deep. Like I didn't feel uh open pain. I think that look, there's so many people in this world who suffer from some sort of discrimination. Yeah. Be it their skin color, their religion, you know, where they were born, their family, or uh it's you know, the list is endless. So I don't think I'm unique in having I think it's rare actually not to have some form of discrimination. But you know, when you are when you do have something that makes you different and perhaps targets you, usually you have to deal with that over and over again. And you sort of desensitize. So for me, being gay, like to deal with a lot of shit before that investor meeting in my life, and that investor meeting didn't faze me at all. As I say, it just motivated me to prove them wrong. Um, I I I think that investors reached out to us since then to try and get back into the company since we've like grown like 20 fold when we spoke them.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Um, interesting. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

You know, which is interesting, right? Like um, not directly, but I think there was some interest to talk again. So it's just, you know. Um, but no, I I think there is pain for a lot of things, you know, deep down for people, but at the surface it just moved on. Um, you know, just brushed it off and carried on.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Yeah. Oh, what a lesson, isn't it? Hmm. And you know, it makes me it makes me think about something that I heard from one of my colleagues at some point. I was at a certain stage of my training as a veterinary surgeon, and I didn't get on well with the people in the workplace. It just didn't suit me. Something was wrong there, and I didn't feel really well in that environment. And one of my colleagues said, you know, Leif, one day you're gonna find your tribe. Keep looking, keep searching. It might not be here, but it is somewhere out there, so keep looking for your own tribe. And I feel like miraculously, I found it myself. I I nearly feel like I created it, I think myself, my new tribe. And I feel like you guys created your own tribe. It feels like I think from the business perspective, taking care of the people who already are in your tribe, people to whom it speaks volumes, what you do and your values and the product that you have. I suppose from the business perspective, correct me if I'm wrong, but that it's really good to take care of the people who already are with you on the same page rather than worrying about people who are not on the same page and then they don't want to be a part of your tribe. Is that a correct way of thinking to take of the clients and then community members who are already with you?

Find Your Tribe, Keep Your People

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Oh, yeah, especially for our business. We don't make money when somebody buys their first bag of dog food. Um, actually, you know, dog food is a highly competitive market. There are more brands than I care to remember, um, just tons. And also, once you feed your dog something and you're happy, you're not gonna switch easily because why would you? You've got a routine, you know what your dog eats, they're fine. And that combination makes it very hard for new entrants to win those customers, win that business, because the barrier to changing foods are high, and there are loads of people trying to ask them to switch. So the way that companies like ours overcome that is we expect a very high cost in order to reach that customer. So we will spend a lot of money on marketing, much more than even the bag of food costs to get that customer. And our business model is based on showing the customer beyond that first purchase that the product is better for their dog. And we only keep them if we prove them, prove that, prove that point. If we don't prove it, they don't come back. So our whole business relies on them taking care of the existing customers. Of course, we need new customers to grow, but our business falls down if people don't keep, you know, coming back to us. And so, yes, uh, it's so important. We call it retention as like sort of the marketing term. And there are a bunch of things you can do to look after your customers. You can check in with them, you know, you can ask them for feedback, like we were saying, like what can we be doing better? You can give them things to thank them for their loyalty, you know, but whether it's a discount, it's a free gift, if you want them to try a different product that you think will be good for them. And you can add value. So we omni do um a vet consultation service. So we have a team of vets who, like we're talking now online virtually with a video call, they will offer our customers the same opportunity to talk like this face to face with a vet, ask any question. That for me is looking after your customer. We're not just selling you something and saying goodbye, good luck. We're selling you something, we're there to support, and we're there to help you along the journey. You know, how is the food going? Do you have questions? Do you need do you need help with something else? So those are the ways that we do it. But yeah, I do think it's so critical to go beyond just acquiring customers, but also looking after them.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

I feel like the word that comes to my mind is relationship. And look how many different types of relationships you are in, right? You would just talk about the clients. You are in that constant developing relationship, very dynamic relationship with your clients. But there's also relationship that you have with your team, obviously. You need to take care of them, your relationship with Shiv, um, with your personal life, people out there, and also the relationship with yourself. I feel like a lot of us have some thinking patterns that do not help us thrive, do not help us succeed, and that relationship with self is very important. What comes to your mind when you hear that word relationship?

Retention, Service, and Value

SPEAKER_01 39:49

I think you can't teach people how to have relationships. I can't teach my team what to say to customers because every customer has a different life story, a different question, a different situation. Of course, there's like the where's my delivery stuff. That's separate. I mean really building the relationship beyond that. I also can't teach my team how to interact with each other. Um, so the relationships that colleagues have, you know, that's down to them. What I can do as a leader and a starter, founder of this company is I can create the culture of what it means to be part of Omni, whether that's as a customer, an employee, a founder. And that's what is my area of focus. So culture is very important. If you build the right culture in an organization, you won't need to tell your customer service team how to deal with that the customers. We, for example, put the customer at the top of our pyramid in our culture. You know, I used to work in vet clinics, or just generally in many jobs where when you're in front of the customer, it's all smiles and polite. But when you go to the staff room, everyone's like, oh my God, this person was XYZ and da-da-da-da-da. From day one of Omni, our at the top of our club, we don't do that. Like, we don't exist if it's not for the customer. Yeah. We just don't. Like they pay our wages. They're the ones who we owe everything to. And so we make it very clear when we hire new people that that's just not part of our culture. So we don't badmouth our customers. I love that. Um, and that by extension, in fact, we we we try to say, imagine you're at a five-star hotel because your partner's given you a gift and you're going away for a weekend and you're at this amazing place being pampered. That's how we want the customer to feel every time they speak or interact with Omni. And that makes so that I'm not telling people what to say. I'm just telling them the feeling to try and get when they're having those interactions. And the rest happens by itself. If you're in that sort of respectful relationship-building space where you're just trying to make people feel pampered, you end up doing that with your colleagues. You end up doing that everywhere. And that's just an example where I think culture is just super powerful on me.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Oh, we do love the word culture in the human savvy world. Do you know culture is a set of those behaviors, the beliefs that we nurture in our organization, a group of people, in a family as well. There can be a culture within the family. And everything that you said, it's so beautiful, so respectful. I love hearing it. Honestly, well done, the guy. And um when I work with a lot of leaders out there, many different industries, they report back to me what you said that might happen, that people put that very pleasant front, very civil face or mask in front of the client. And when they go to the back, as we call it in the medical world, everything changes. People start labeling clients, people change their attitude towards them. And they think that it's okay that it doesn't show the front, but it's not true. It always stays there. We as human beings are not able to separate uh what we experience internally about a person uh from what we actually show to them. We think we're good at this, but we're not. And I love that you're fighting with that labeling. It's such a common issue in the world of the customer care and also in the world of teamwork in general. I love what you're saying about the culture, so big, big kudos on this. And especially because you're a leader and you're as a leader set an example. Like you said, you can't literally make someone do something, treat another person differently, but you can role model that. You can show that deep respect, and that it's absolutely fantastic. Gosh, I feel like we could talk about it forever. Um, all right, the final question. Um, I'll try to make it a final question. No promises here. Um, but here it comes. What do you like the most about your professional life, about your role right now? And is there something that you love the most about your personal life? Something that makes you smile, gives you energy, makes you feel truly alive.

Culture as the Operating System

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Professional life, I feel like I'm building something that will leave a legacy. I sometimes imagine, you know, it sounds a bit grim and cryptic, but I imagine like what happens once I'm gone. You know, what what am I what have I done? Where's my mark in the world? And I love the fact that I'm putting my energy into something that will hopefully exist after me and hopefully have a positive impact, right? That makes me feel, of course, like money's great, you know, work life balance, all those things. It's all fun, it's all cool, but really I want to leave a legacy. And so it feels great that that's what I'm building, whether I'm successful or not, time will tell. I'm satisfied that that's my direction and energy, um, where I where I direct my energy. Personally, what I love most in life is probably a tie between the feeling when you're eating your favorite food and the dopamine rush. Like, for instance, I just discovered a new like açaí place near where I live, and asaí is like this um berry that they make these, it's very popular in Brazil. Um, they make these amazing, sort of like desserts um with like granola and fruits, and anyway, that feeling when you're eating something like that, it's amazing. And then the other one is competing on the tennis course. Uh tennis is a huge part of my life. I work so hard, I train so often, and I put so much blood, sweat, and tears into my training. The moments where it comes together, like I fail all the time, I get beaten all the time. But when I don't lose, when I win and I win a title, that is so satisfying for me. And even though it's just hitting a rubber ball across a you know a court with a net in the middle, I know it doesn't mean anything, but to me, it brings fulfillment.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

When you see the results of your hard work, does it make it uh worth it? All that gigantic amount of work that you put into it, all the efforts, even personally and professionally, do you think seeing the fruit makes it feel better and keeps you going?

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Yeah, it's like I want to do this. I still haven't done it, by the way. I I'm still trying to win. So there's like different levels of tournament. I'm still trying to win at a particular level. I've been trying for like six years. And I still haven't won it. And so I'm still waiting for my moment. Um I will keep fighting. I'm not getting any younger either, so it better come soon. But yes, I, you know, in doubles, so you have singles and doubles in tennis. Doubles, I've done it a number of times. Singles, I've not done it yet. Um, and yes, I imagine when I do, I will have that. Yes, you've done it moment. You'll feel great.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

Uh, that sounds absolutely amazing. Okay, my friend. We do know SAE here in Australia. We, in fact, make absolutely amazing SAEs, so I can't wait for you to visit. And I'm gonna take you for a fantastic dessert. I can't promise to play tennis with you because I absolutely suck at this. I don't think if I've ever really tried properly. Maybe you'll you'll motivate me to actually give it a proper go, but I can't promise that. And I wanted to say huge true thank you to you for your openness, your vulnerability. It is quite rare to be so authentic in the world of entrepreneurship when sometimes we need to show up in a certain way. It's I feel like it's harder to be our true selves. I appreciate your emotional intelligence. We've talked about that so much. I think you are very inspirational and a role model to a lot of people, Ada. Thank you so much for being here today with me, guy.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me.