Season 3, Episode 9: Special Guest - Nina Bosco

What if the most powerful thing a leader can say is “I don’t have it all figured out”? 

In this episode, Dr Liv Oginska sits down with an extraordinary leader, Nina Bosco. They unpack how vulnerability, clear rituals, and a progress-over-perfection mindset fuel real results across a diverse team. Nina leads veterinarians and corporate affairs professionals in a fast, high-stakes environment, yet her playbook is disarmingly human: distraction-free 1:1s, monthly growth rituals that celebrate “oh no” moments, and storytelling that turns failure into shared learning.

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Nina shares candid stories about failure, growth, and setting boundaries while leading a diverse, high-impact team.

• thriving versus surviving as a senior leader
• leading cross-cultural corporate affairs across the Asia Pacific region
• progress over perfection as a core value
• rituals for 1:1s, stakeholder learnings, and “oh no” moments
• storytelling to build trust and capability
• transparency about time, energy, and availability
• mentorship and coaching for leaders
• empathy with boundaries to prevent burnout
• tough people decisions and feedback in the moment
• aligning values when prioritising time with people


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Transcript

Thriving Versus Surviving As A Leader

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Hello everyone. Today I would like to introduce you to someone truly amazing. Nina Bosco. She's a regional corporate affairs and health affairs director at Royal Cannon. She's got such a big team under her car. And these are people from many different walks of life and backgrounds and countries. And still, she's a truly well-beloved leader. She's pretty awesome, guys. I'm a bit starstruck. I can't wait for you to listen to that conversation because Nina, despite being so amazing and a leader at such a high level, she shows the vast amounts of authenticity. And we talk about her imperfections, we talk about her mistakes, we talk about the things that she still needs to learn and areas in which she needs to grow. She's so passionate about her team. And that conversation was very moving for me. One of my friends who listened to it said, Gosh, I wish my leader was more like Nina. And you know what? I wish to all of us to be a little bit more like her. Truly perfectly imperfect and always striving for the best. I hope that you will enjoy this conversation. And if you have any questions for me or for Nina, please reach out to us. Enjoy. Hi Nina, how are you doing? I'm so glad to have you here today.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Thanks, Liv. It's it's lovely to be with you today to have a good chat.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Yeah, and I just found out, my lovely audience, that this is the very first podcast where Nina will be on as a guest, and I am completely honored. Really thrilled about that. Thank you so much for doing this with me.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Oh, it's my pleasure. And you know, I'm I am a little bit anxious because it is my first podcast, but you've made me feel very reassured. So eager to get started and hope I can give the listeners um the insights they're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

That's good, that's good. And you know, in this podcast, in our human savvy world in general, we are all looking for something, for some guidance, for maybe some advice, maybe a bit of motivation and inspiration. But what we are truly looking for is authenticity and just normal human beings out there. So no one has to be perfect, and that applies to you. Um, fantastic. Shall we jump right into our questions? How about that?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Let's do it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Okay, so the question that I usually start those interviews with is this one Do you feel that you as a leader you're currently thriving or surviving? Where are you at?

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Oh gosh, this is a this is a great question, and it's straight to the point, which I love. Honestly, at the moment, I would say I am thriving, and I put that down to my team. So I'm super fortunate to lead uh a team of very purpose-driven um small animal um and health and nutrition practitioners, and the work that we do genuinely drives impact. So I work for a cat and dog um nutrition company, and the purpose really drives the work we do. We we're helping cats and dogs live healthier lives. So when I feel when you truly believe in what you do and you're having fun doing it, and that's that's an important value for me. I feel when you work hard, you need to play hard too. You need to incite some humor and conversation and humanity into the work you do. It just makes it so much easier to thrive.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

It definitely does. I really agree. And I think your team might be potentially international. Am I correct to think that?

Leading A Diverse Asia Pacific Team

SPEAKER_00 4:56

That's correct, Liv. So I lead um at le I lead a team of Asia Pacific professionals, actually. So it's a it's a corporate affairs team, and as I mentioned, it's made up of many veterinarians, which is super special and super unique. When you're leading cross-cultural teams, um, it's it's dynamic. You make some mistakes, obviously, because we all have different cultural norms, we all get motivated in different ways when we live across the world. But ultimately, it's a team where diversity prevails. And so you have all these lovely perspectives and experiences that make the team, yeah, very dynamic, as I mentioned, very agile. And uh yeah, there's there's just a lot of difference in us, but that's what makes us so unique.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And okay, I'm gonna ask you a tricky question because tricky because people usually don't like thinking about themselves that way, especially in the countries where it is frowned upon to boast about yourself or it's perceived as being arrogant. My question for you is what do you think your team might like about you as their leader?

What The Team Values In Their Leader

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Oh gosh. That is that is a tricky one. Uh so I think I think it's the energy and the emotion I bring. And I say that in a very careful and considered way, but I really feel the highs and lows with my team. I I care deeply about them and the work they do. So my compassion, um, and that's I think where the emotion comes in is a big one for me. And I'm always pushing them to think long term, um, to think about what we're driving forward. So, what's the North Star? What's what's the overarching ambition? What's the strategy? And making sure that they feel part of a journey and that they we're building something that lasts. So I'm as a leader, I'm I'm very big on, as I mentioned, energy, emotion, but also very big on the story. So the storytelling aspect, how we connect the business priorities to the broader good. Um, I feel that that's probably mean a leader in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Oh, that's beautiful. I'm just thinking because we talk about those things very often when when we hear leaders describing what is important to them, they will talk about the mission, they will talk about uh taking everyone on the journey, and I I love that. And my following question is how do we do it practically? Do you have some sort of ritual? Do you have some sort of occasion where you can ask specific questions? Um, your team just to find out whether they are on the same page, what is it that they want? Could you give us a bit of like a description of how it looks practically in your case, Nina?

Growth Mindset In Practice

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Yes, of course. Um, it's it's actually a great question. And and each leader does this in their own way. Because I am all about energy and emotion, it means I'm very intentional about the way I spend time with the team. So spending time on the team, I would say, at my role level and seniority in the business is actually critical because if I'm not spending time with the team, I'm not understanding what makes them thrive. So coming back to your earlier question, but I'm also um there to also appreciate and understand what's blocking them from doing their best work and how I as a leader can can unblock um those blockages, so to speak, which isn't the most eloquent way of saying that. The way I create intentionality is exactly what you've uh the term you've used in rituals. So rituals or frameworks. So in any direct report I have, there are always regular, there's a regular cadence, and that starts from the beginning of the year. It's it's a non-negotiable around one-on-one connections. And when I have these one-on-one connections, they're they're distraction-free. So it's not about, you know, answering the phone or walking around. It's it's a meaningful connection. And it's not so much about, you know, give me a task list about all your to-dos for this week. It's not like that. It's all about the person. Where are you thriving? What's what's holding you back? How's your energy? What's the family doing? Because I honestly feel if the family and the home life is not ticking away, you can never expect someone to bring themselves to work. So that's a very um, that's a very important question. I ask in those sort of one-on-one connections. What I do for the broader team that I lead. So as I mentioned, um, I I have uh responsibility for Asia Pacific corporate affairs um at Royal Canon. I think I can call out the company name. Um to do that, yeah, to do that, I have six market heads, corporate affairs leaders in in those units. So some are clusters, some are markets on their own. And that's anywhere between, you know, New Zealand to China to Korea to the Philippines. So very, very different and dynamic um markets. We have also a monthly ritual, or we call it in the Mars business a periodic connect with those six heads and myself, where we basically go through um what I call the growth mindset rituals, which is, you know, let's share about a key stakeholder that we've met with, what we've learned from them, what was your aha moment. We have another ritual, um, which pardon my language, but it's the um the oh shit moment. So tell us about a time where you've done something and it's failed, and how can we all learn off that failure quickly and ensure we don't repeat it, but we also celebrate the vulnerability in admitting that there's a mistake or a failure, that that's another ritual that we do. And then the third one is also how do we continue upskilling ourselves? How do we role model growth mindset? How do we become better business leaders? Because the corporate affairs leader of 2025, 2026, you know, ongoing to 2030 and beyond, must have that business and commercial acumen to lead the function with tenacity, with determination, um, and to build the trust, which is what all corporate affairs teams do right around the world, not just at Royal Canon. So we often bring the outside in perspective in to this ritual, this connection. We bring in commercial leaders from you know within Mars or outside of Mars to just make sure that we're staying current and make sure that we're still learning. So hopefully that addresses some parts of the question, but I think intentionality in connection and learning from your team and learning together and being vulnerable, they're they're actual key, key elements of what I believe to be strong, authentic uh leadership.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

It's beautiful, and it absolutely does answer my question. What comes to my mind is how lucky the team is to have here, how lucky those people are, I think. Like without sugarcoating, how cool is it to have a leader who prioritizes that time without distractions, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Oh, it's it's it's critical. Honestly, live we our lives are so fast paced. Like if you think about how we consume social media and information these days on three-second reels, the value of time, you know, even if it's just half an hour, a virtual connection with a with a T on screen to just check in and see how that, you know, that pet is feeling, or how the husband or the partner or the cat or dog or kid, you know, it it's it's it's a fundamental part of leadership that I hope we don't lose as the world continues to evolve and become faster and more dynamic. That just taking time to pause and listen is just critical to that human connection.

Time, Transparency, And Asking For Help

SPEAKER_01 13:21

For sure. 100%. I sometimes feel like the the essence of my work and why it's desired and asked asked for, gosh, I can't talk to asked for, um, is because uh inherently to my job, I have time to listen to people. They know that if they meet me, it is all about them, and I am there for them. Whatever they bring to me, whether it's ugly, whether it's something that they might be embarrassed about, they are safe with me. And that's that gift of time, and I'm lucky because that's my job, right? To be somebody's coach and to guide them. But for a leader, leaders also need to be coaches, and that requires that time, which very often is not prioritized in organizations. And I'm gonna play a devil's advocate now, and I feel like I'm gonna speak for a lot of leaders that I know, and I'm gonna ask you this question: What do you need as a leader to actually make it happen? Because there will be leaders out there saying, Oh, great, like that's amazing. I wish I could do it. I have no time for that. I don't have some other things, some other resources to actually show up as a supportive leader. So, what I actually have in mind is very different to what is realistic in my organization. So, if I ask you, Nina, what are you given by your environment, your people around you, maybe above you, what is it that they give you so that you can actually make it happen?

Progress Not Perfection Culture

SPEAKER_00 15:03

That's a great question. And there's multiple parts to this, but if there's one key message on how this happens, is that I'm often told by my regional president who I report into and my supporting leadership team in Asia Pacific is we don't get stuck on chasing perfection. It doesn't exist, but we focus on making progress. So that 30-minute connection, as I called out earlier, that cup of tea and that check-in, every little step you take to listen, to invest in your team and to grow your team is progress. So stop chasing the perfection, just focus on the iterative progress towards becoming a better leader, becoming a vulnerable leader, showing feeling, coaching your team. And don't be afraid to ask for help. Because there are always situations, Live, where we have a major project project um coming up. And I had one recently in Korea. And and I I couldn't feasibly make the time because there's only so much time in a week. And the first thing I did was I was very transparent to the team that I connect with regularly. You know, team, I'm I'm just not mentally available in the few weeks leading up to this big event. But what's once it's done, you have me back. So again, it's that transparency and that vulnerability that I'm also struggling a bit with time management. And then it's also leaning on the team around you. So to grow people, it's not just one perspective. It takes multiple perspectives. You need feedback from a wide cross-section of audience, not just your people leader. So ensuring that you're you keep asking the question, you you keep connecting um your team with others in the business or even externals, as I called out earlier, that also helps build uh resilience, it helps build capability, and it and it really follows that adage around don't get trusted stuck chasing the perfection, focus on the progress. On the flip side, though, is that as a leader, I think something we never get is growing ourselves as well. Tell me more. And that's that's a very important um and can be a very hard thing, especially when you think about time management and giving your best to everyone else. Nobody is perfect in leadership. We all have scope for improvement. Sometimes you can get so caught up in the day-to-day that you don't lift your eyes to think, oh God, did I did I overstep there or what could I have done better? And so investing in yourself as well. And that could be through your mentorship, mentorship network. Um, a lot of companies have sponsors, that that's a pretty regularly used word, I believe, in many organizations. So connecting in with a sponsor, or alternatively, the investment in a coach, a professional coach, in just ensuring that you're keeping yourself current because leaders aren't perfect either. And and as leaders, we also need to spend time on developing ourselves so we can give back to others. Um, and I believe that is also a journey. Um, and as long as, again, you're not chasing perfection, but you're progressing, um, I think that's a good, that's a good step in in the self-awareness of a leader that absolutely you are not 10 out of 10 on on all the uh integral leadership qualities. There's no way anyone can be perfect at everything. So you've just got to keep developing on those weaknesses and keep leaning on the towering strengths, but you know, never never um underestimate the the importance of developing within yourself as well and taking that time.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Oh, I wish, I wish our listeners could see me because I'm beaming. Oh my god, you're speaking my language, and I absolutely adore everything that you said. Not because partially obviously because of what I do, right, with the leaders. Yes, but most importantly, to hear someone, your level, to say, Do you know what? I am not perfect, I need to learn so much, and I deserve to have help. I deserve to have someone who's gonna coach me through this, someone who will help me to reflect, to expand my emotional intelligence, someone who will be there just to keep me accountable. It really, really means a lot. So thank you so much for saying that because it shows that no matter how high we are in that hierarchy in the organization, we always need to grow and invest in that. And I would say the higher you are, the more the more self-aware you need to be, really. I don't know if you agree with that statement.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Oh, I I completely agree. And honestly, if you're at a point in your leadership journey or your career where you think, you know what, I know it all. Um, I mean, this is going to be a fairly contentious comment, but maybe it's time for a new role or or a retirement, or or you know, like it it you never stop learning. And you know, and and to be and to be a good leader, you need to be vulnerable, you need to be self-aware, you need to admit where you've stopped up. Um it just makes your teams respect you more, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Oh sure. Yeah. I'm just thinking because someone who can um admit that I am not perfect, I need to learn the they show that vulnerability, and we applaud that. So you and I, and a lot of people out there applaud that. But that is also interpersonally and I would say career wise a bit risky if your organization doesn't. So, what you said at the very beginning that we don't care about perfection, we care about progress. That is brilliant. Because if you know that if you're told by everyone around you that it's okay to not be perfect, it's like, oh my god, freaking no one is perfect, right? So if I am not, if I'm just one of those people who are the part of the organization, we all learn, and I need to learn as well, then that's easier to admit to your team that well, I screwed up, I made a mistake, and I need to learn, I need to grow. Maybe I wasn't above the line as I should. And you have that psychological safety to admit that. And it connects so beautifully to what you said about one of the techniques of actually making sure that you are supported. So what your organization gives you seems like your organization believes that your time spent with the employees on those little conversations, it serves that progress and it's worth doing. Am I summarizing it correctly?

Storytelling, Failure, And Peer Feedback

The Hidden Strain Of Leadership

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Absolutely correct. So, I mean, so I work for a brand within the Mars family of brands. And something we we take really seriously at Mars, and I've been in the company four years. I feel like it's 40 years. Honestly, I feel so comfortable in the company because we run we run the culture around what we call the Mars Five Principles. And if you look them up on a website, you'll you know, listeners can get a better idea of these five principles. But honestly, it's something that guides our decision making, it's something that underpins our leadership qualities. And part of living the five principles is all about people. And again, like the expectation at a leadership level is you take time for people. That that is absolutely the most critical part of your role. Because through developing others, we grow as a business and we achieve all that we want to achieve, including the business outcomes, the performance outcomes. Um, so it's it's a very much a principles, principle-based business. And I think just to build on the point you're making around the license to fail and be okay with that, and to pick yourself up and and then you know move fast. You know, we have a very high-performing leadership team in Asia Pacific. And something we've carved out the time for this year, again, it's it's a ritual, is every period, so every month, a member of the leadership team will share a story. So this not only builds communication skills, which is um which is my true passion, but it actually puts you on the spot in front of this very high-performing team, but you've got the trust there and you've got the connection. You basically share a story about, you know, your something you've learned and potentially where you've stuffed up and what you got out of it. And it's your 15 minutes to shine in a story, and then you get feedback from your peers on it. And so when we started this ritual, it was a bit scary at first. I think the first few presenters were like, oh gosh, how how hot should I go on this? Um, but it resonates with me. And the reason I mention it is it was my turn three weeks ago. And something that I will share openly with your listeners is when I got came into this role last year, it was a really big step up to the role I had started with at Royal Canon. Um, I got promoted really quickly, which was wonderful, but at the same time, it was terrifying. And I knew that I had, you know, sometimes we think about when you go for a role, and I mean, this is I'm going off track now, but when you think about women and men, and men will look at the capabilities and think, yeah, I can do five of those, I'll go for it. And a woman will be like, Well, I don't have all 10, so maybe I'll hold myself back. Well, I actually went into the role knowing that I didn't have the full suite of capability, but I knew that I had the learning agility and the desire and the passion to learn as I went. And so that was the agreement from the beginning of the role, which is another wonderful thing about Mars. They really invest in a talent development process to ensure that everyone's clear when people take on these big roles, you know, where the towering strengths are and where the opportunities are for growth. So it's a very transparent um process. I had a terrible year last year, to be honest, Liv. Oh no. It wasn't terrible in terms of performance. Like we were, like we were doing great work, but I honestly struggled with coming into a regional role. And starting, you know, my role was created from scratch. So starting everything from scratch, processes, ways of working, the strategy, you know, strategic design, learning about the markets, building the position. I really underestimated how hard that was going to be for me. So that was the story I shared with my peers about how I came into this role and what I didn't do right and what I learned from it and what I did differently for 2025, where I feel like I've had a wonderful year. I mean, honestly, the feedback I got from that session, I get I like sometimes I still get a connection from someone saying, Remember the story you shared three weeks ago? But you know, it was a very raw story. But again, that's that's what makes us human and that's what builds teams up. It's that trust to say, you know, it doesn't all go to plan, but eventually you work out a way out of that really crummy situation. And this is what I can share with you all so that you don't make the same mistakes I did. That's very empowering to be able to do that. But I don't think it happens in every company and in every leadership train team. You need the trust foundation to be able to put yourself out on a limb like that and um admit such a well a high level of vulnerability. But gosh, it works because you know, like you're just building this repository of stories that you can that you can lean on because you know, careers like life, like our personal lives, then they're not a linear um straight line. There's lots of ups and downs and bumps. So, you know, the power of story and sharing, it's very, very, very powerful.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

It is. It is. Oh, thank you so much for sharing that with us. We we really appreciate it. Um I love what you said, everything that um it is something that we observe every day, that when one person becomes more vulnerable, then the rest feels that permission to be vulnerable and to be crap at something. We've got that permission to actually talk about it, and some people crave talking about it because they need someone to digest it with, to analyze that with, to get that lesson out of it. Many of us are overthinkers and we spend a lot of time overanalyzing what actually happened, but we are inside of the jar, so we can't see the label on that jar, what is on the outside. And we need someone who's gonna help us to read that label and read that lesson that is hidden in that very painful situation. I love that when you open yourself, you role model that opening yourself, and everyone has a chance to actually chip in. I'm probably I'm thinking that everyone was hearing your story and it'll be like, I would never tell. She smashed it. I have no idea. Am I correct to guess that?

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Oh, you're so correct. Yeah, yeah, you're so correct. Because I pre- I mean, by nature, I'm I'm quite extroverted, I'm confident, you know. I'm yeah, I'm a corporate affairs person, so I I'm good at talking and and selling a message. And but you yeah, it's not it's not all what you see outwardly, you know, from the you know, the outset, it can look quite easy and successful and all's going well, but you know, internally there's a lot of other things going on. So I think it's important that we share that, you know, it's again, it's not that straight line of you know, things just going all to plan. Um it's hard, it's hard work being a leader, to be honest. Like it's it can be exhausting, honestly. I can see why a lot get burnt out, but yeah, you've just you just got to keep chipping away at it and and sharing the stir the story um and ensuring that everyone knows that it's it's it's okay and it's very normal and actually it's very healthy. It's it's all it I mean, if we think about a buzz term, it's this is what growth mindset's all about.

Compassion, Perspective, And Support Systems

SPEAKER_01 29:59

For sure. Yes, 100%. I believe that what you said depicts so beautifully that saying the truth, really, that the biggest source of misery in certain social interactions is the fact that we compare our insights to somebody's outsides. Yes, and that does not work. There is so much hidden, so much pain, hidden for everyone. We all go through our own type and flavor of pain, and all different types of flavor and flavors of pain matter. It's not that oh, we've got Nina, she's in a really high top position, she's a really great leader, she's well situated. What is she saying? Like, that's not uh her pain, it's nothing terrible what she's describing. I am in trouble in here, barely managing, trying to feed my family and things like that. I would like everyone to respect that other people do have their own perspective and their own flavor of pain, and it matters, right? We can't compare those things really and properly and truly. So I think that element of compassion around other people's own experience, I think would really help our industry and probably our other industries to think about others with open minds and open hearts. Yeah, and we all need help, we all need support, we need support from our family, we need support from our co-workers, our closer, closest team, and we also need support from our bigger organization. It really makes me think of my current project, the part of my PhD that I'm doing. Do you know? We spend a lot of time analysing what the team members across Australia, so veterinary professionals, what they say when I ask them, what do you want from your leader? What do you want them to do or avoid doing in order to make you feel supported, especially in those interpersonal spicy interactions? What do you want from your leader? What will make you feel supported? And they mention a lot of qualities. So I've got a whole bank of data, and we are currently working through publishing it and describing it well to our audience. But what we notice is that a vast majority of those qualities of a leader cannot exist without the impact or permission even from the organization.

unknown 32:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

This is the impact of everyone around us that they have on how we show up to our and I love that you do have that support. Sounds like you do, and then you're passing on that support to your team. It makes me very happy for them.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Trying to, trying to, as I said earlier, it's progress, it's not perfect, but you know, we we're it's absolutely a journey and and trying our best and my best.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

That sounds amazing. Can I ask you a final question? And one it's gonna be um a vulnerable one because you are a very open, beautiful, vulnerable person. So why not? I'm gonna ask you this one. If there was one thing that you could change about yourself to make your life easier, and maybe other people around you make their lives easier, what would it be? Is there something?

SPEAKER_00 33:39

I'm pretty hard on myself, actually. So yeah, I I try my best to carry all the worries and anxieties and everything that I hear from others, and I I I actually hold it very dear to me. And sometimes that actually zaps my own energy. So I guess that's something I I really want to work on and and keep working on is how do I carve that aspect out and and just keep building that resilience that I can only control what I can control. And I've also got to trust that everyone around me is is doing the same and and not holding it so close because honestly, it can it can consume me at times. And uh it's it's something that I'm you know just evolving and and getting better at. But I think that comes back to the earlier question around me as a leader, the energy and the emotion. It's it's that emotion side. I need to, yeah, I just need to, it's it's a constant evolution on on how much to give and also when to stop giving. Because um, something I've learned, you know, the hard way over many years as a leader is sometimes you give so much that you're actually protecting that person at your own cost. And sometimes the the best thing you can do as a leader is actually letting them go or find, you know, like just being very, very open about the fact that it's not working. It it's actually zapping energy or it's not feeling mutual anymore. Um, so that's something I just need to get better at. And and I'm cognizant of it. And, you know, my husband's a really good barometer of that. Sometimes I'll share something with him. Yeah, just just more about you know, interactions with people and and he's he's a leader in his own right in a in a in a different sort of business entirely. And he's actually very good at this skill. So he he will often call me out and say, uh, you've overstepped there, you know, pull it back. That's not, yeah. Yep. So he's he's a he's a good sort of trusted check for me. Um, obviously, my line manager is as well. Um, you know, he's obviously in a massive role and looking after many, many professionals. So he will often say to me, uh-uh, you know, too far. You you've got to train yourself to pull it back there. Um, so it's good, it's good getting that that in the moment feedback at times, or even me as I grow in my self-awareness journey around myself, you know, asking for help off people that know me well and getting them to remind me as well.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Thank you for sharing that. So honestly, I knew that if there is someone who I could ask that question, it would be you. So I really appreciate it. And feels like we both get attached to people. Am I correct to say that? Yes, yes, yes, and it can be a blessing, always happy.

Tough People Decisions And Feedback Loops

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Yeah, it's a blessing, it's a curse, and you know, like the high, I mean, again, for your listeners, the higher up you move in organizations, the more you have to make tough decisions around people as well. True. Um, so this skill is is a super important one. Um you know, it's it's just the reality of leadership. You have to be pragmatic and yeah, you have to check yourself from time to time and you know, ensure that it's the right balance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

And it's good to have someone to check that with, right? Like you said, your husband, your line manager. Again, it shows that you don't have to do it on your own. We all need someone who will help us and guide us in the certain situation. Do a bit of a reality check, do a little uh gentle and loving uh smack on the face when we need it because we all exactly, absolutely that exactly.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Um it's very it's super important again. That that that feedback, the feedback loop is important. Asking for help, seeking the feedback, even if it's hard feedback, it's going to make you grow. So that that's very worthwhile.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Love that, totally agree with that. In the human savvy world, we call it a beautiful but stinky gift of feedback in the moment. It's not pleasant, but we already we all know that we need it so so much. Um thank you so much, Nina. Honestly, that that was much more vulnerable than I would ever expect, even though we know each other quite well by now, but I do love it, and we speak the same language, and I think for our listeners, there were some things that you mentioned that are clear guidance for what we need as leaders, what we should ask for in order to be successful, to be our best version that we can give to our team. It is asking for that mentorship and coaching when it's needed, it is asking for the time with people to be prioritized. I would dare to say that if someone's in an organization when that time with people is not prioritized and you care about that time with people, that might not be a place for you, for that person. To me, it's that's um disconnect between values. So it's a tough thing to say, but if something makes someone constantly unhappy, they would like to spend time with people and they are blocked. To me, it's a signal. I don't know what you think about that harsh kind, you know.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

No, no, I mean, you know, harsh, harsh statements work for for a reason. I've got Greek cultural backgrounds, so you know it can't be harsh when you have migrant parents and you know you're raised by grandparents that have risked everything to move to another country. You know, that's that was my way of growing up. So, you know, it definitely builds resilience and and and I meant, and as I've said a few times, you know, it keeps you growing, keeps you fresh.

Values Fit And Prioritizing People Time

SPEAKER_01 39:54

It does, it really does. Nina, thank you so much for sharing everything. You've been amazing. How was it? Pleasure this podcast was good, it was great.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Yes. Well, it's good because you know, as I mentioned, Liv, I'm a talk, I'm a talker, so talking is something I love to do. So thank you for making it. Um thank you for asking me a few tough questions, but I I really enjoyed the discussion as well. So I hope I hope your listeners get something out of it.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

For sure, 100%. So, our lovely listeners, we all wish to Nina to close that box of self-criticism and pressure and worrying a little bit too much and taking on a little bit too much. Put the lid on that box, put it on the side, not entirely, not all the time, but just to create a little bit more space to not worry too much, to channel that beautiful energy that she has that's. emotion into growing the world and changing in it the best possible way. I hope that we all can do it. We all sometimes worry too much. But that's normal. We're human beings. And this is what means to be a human savvy to work on what we want to work and embrace it and push for it and have a good life.