Defensive farce against Falcons

Josh, James and Lee get together to discuss the Commanders frustrating defensive performance in Sunday's loss to the Falcons. Washington slides to 2-2:

- Game discussion 
- Coaches grades
- MOTM on both sides 
- On to LA

@HailOnThreePod

Transcript

0:02

How would you describe the culture surrounding this football team? You know, the culture is actually damn good.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 0:29

Welcome to another edition of the Hail on Free podcast. I'm Josh, joined, uh, this Monday afternoon UK Time by James and by Lee. So a full compliment to discuss the 34 27 loss to the Atlanta Falcons Commanders now two and two through four weeks and. Before we get into what I'm sure will be quite a, uh, visceral take down of our defenses, abysmal performance yesterday, uh, Lee, how was the Ryder Cup on Friday?

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 1:01

Good afternoon sports fans. I loved the Ryder Cup. I actually was hoping just to talk about the golf today. Is that not what we're doing?

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 1:08

We do 40 minutes on Shane Lowy.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 1:11

Uh, yeah, exactly. Uh, no, it was, it was awesome. Um, really great, great day and a fantastic victory for Europe in the end. Although it was a little, little closer last night, wasn't it? So, um, yeah, no bucket list event achieved and it was quite, quite spicy in there.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 1:29

It did seem a bit chippy in there. Uh, James, how much of the golf did you care about or watch on your travels around Spain on the weekend?

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 1:39

no, I, I normally care for this one. Um, but yeah, saw very little. Um, the only chance I was going to see anything was Sunday, and obviously I was preoccupied of NFL and then by then I was outta the loop. So, um, obviously in one of our chats you guys were given regular updates, so, but, um, it was on the ship I was on on one night. Um, so I did catch a bit of it, but it was quite late on and

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 2:01

Yeah.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 2:02

a few beers in, so, uh, yeah.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 2:05

So you had a night, you both had lovely weekends ruined by Joe Whitt jr's defensive scheme on Sunday night. Um,

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 2:14

Exactly.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 2:14

into it. Um, this was a different game script to any of the other three that we've had so far. I guess we were behind this entire game, um, which obviously. Was similar to Green Bay, but this, this one a completely different opponent obviously. Um, we talked about how dangerous they would be coming off a fade and nothing blow out the week before. They were obviously gonna come out hot. Um, and there was talk of whether this would be a get right game for Michael Pennix Jr. And it was, um, let's start Lee with our defense, which was a story of the game not being able to get off the field.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 2:51

Yeah, it was, wasn't it? Firstly though, on Friday when I got your guys messages in our group, uh, when I was perched up at the seventh hole there and it said Daniel's, uh, out, Terry out, I just kinda got that sinking feeling about the game in general. To be honest, I didn't wake up particularly confident yesterday, even though I did predict us to win. But the injuries are just. Not put us in a good place going into any of these last couple of games, they? But yeah, the story yesterday was, uh, was on the defensive side of the ball, wasn't it? And it was really, really disappointing. I thought it would be a good acid test after playing a, a good packers offense. And let's face it, the major worry to me is the other two of offenses we've played when the defenses look good is potentially two of the worst lines in the league. Um, and Russell Wilson and Gino Smith are. Are good opponents for any defense, aren't they? To be honest, um, Wilson's has already been benched in New York and, and Gino on a short week was, was quite a nice matchup. So I think the major worry was just how, how bad it looked yesterday, and I'll give a lot of credit to Atlanta for that. I thought they came out with their, their hair on a fire kind of. Season on the line a little bit. Not, that might be an exaggeration, but they played like it, didn't, they, they, they really were, were up for it and it was just, tone was set fairly early again, and it never, we never really recovered despite putting up some decent numbers ourselves.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 4:14

Yeah, when, when they. Elected to receive the bull. I thought, ah, they're not scared by our defense at all, and they're obviously feeling pretty good about themselves. Um, see, as you say, that set the tone pretty early on. It had some Green Bay vibes to it as well. Um, and as you say, I didn't too confident after those announcement announcements. Like Lee said, I think, I think I predicted 30, 27 hour in the week to us, I think. If I'd known those two were definitely out, I probably would've switched that around 30, 27 Atlanta, to be honest. But yeah. what else is there to say? Same as Lee, really. I mean,

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 4:49

So,

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 4:49

get more into it, I

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 4:50

yeah. So, uh, a interesting thing you said, Lee, you give Orlando a lot of credit offensively. And James, you said that, you know, they came out with, got the ball confident down the field. Um. I listened to Kevin Sheen this morning on my drive back to London and he gave Lanner a lot more credit than he did give our defense criticism, which I thought was quite interesting. Um, in the moment watching the game, they did do a good job. Staying balanced, pass and run for sure. And they dialed up some interesting things and B John Robinson's a star, but to be honest, I, I didn't give them as much credit as, as Sheen did. Um, I thought our defensive scheme as a joke on the day we'll get into it in detail and individual players played really poorly and I think we gave them as much as they kind of took from us to be honest. What did you, what would you give it kind of Lee, in terms of your like percentages that was on us being terrible defensively and percentage? That was them being, being good.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 5:47

Yeah, well, their main players turned up, so that was always gonna be a, a tough ask, but I'm not sure I'd agree with him, um, completely there. They, they did play well that was a. His best performance, wasn't it? Pennix Jr. And a real impressive bounce back as a young quarterback to, to go out there and do that after a terrible outing. I listened to one of the Atlanta guys in the week that came on one of the, the DC shows, and he was saying that he, he definitely saw that game as a complete outlier. I think I mentioned the preview game. They still out outgained the Pan Panthers. So that, that score was just really misleading. Um, as we kind of touched on, so. Yeah, uh, is, you know, Dejon, Robinson's a top, top back, isn't he? And then Drake, London had himself a day. He's a really, really good receiver in this league. Would probably be a number one most places in the league, um, outside five or six teams. So yeah, they all played really well, but I, I'm not giving our defense. The pass I fought, there was some, every time we put ourselves in a good position. Atlanta just got it back right away and it's the most frustrating thing to watch, isn't it? As a sports fan with an NFL fan and your team gets themselves into a decent position. Like there was a couple of times we stuffed them on first down and they'd just get like the 14 yards immediately back with

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 7:03

Yeah.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 7:04

some really weird soft zone coverage with like Sandra Seal playing like four yards off in some kind of weird prevent. It looked

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 7:10

Mm-hmm.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 7:11

and catch to me at times. So was getting quite annoyed watching it.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 7:14

Yeah, high, high blood pressure in, uh, in Suffolk, my dad and myself watching it. And there wasn't any moment where we got particularly excited, like you said, on even if we'd stuffed them a couple of times in first and second down'cause we just knew what was coming on third down. Um, I think James, there anything you wanna kind of talk about before we get into grades? Anything general on top of that from a land perspective or do you wanna go into Dan Quinn and his coach's grade for the game?

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 7:42

Um, let's get into the, let's get into the grades. But yeah, we all seem to be a get right game for star players that haven't had a good previous week. I mean, I think Carl Pitts had a big game against his last week and he's never done anything for years. Um, yeah, just as you say that soft coverage, I dunno what. I what's going, as you say, you, they'd make a play and then you'd just know either we're gonna give a penalty or they're gonna convert it one way or another. yeah, let, let's get into it because I'm getting pissed off again.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 8:11

Start with Dan Quinn, um, as we do usually, um, a tough one this week for him for a number of reasons. I thought he, he. This is really tough actually, because how much do you wanna say as a defensive head coach, does he actually also carry some responsibility for how things are defensively on the day? Obviously he brought Jot Jr across himself. Um, but in terms of on the day and how he managed the game and how we were prepared for the game, uh, some stuff, I'm sure at the end of the first half that pissed you off Lee. Um, and a grade from yourself before we get into the defense side.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 8:53

Yeah, I'll just give him a D, straight

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 8:56

Hmm.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 8:56

I mean, I'm not just gonna give out F'S every time we lose, but I don't think we came out looking particularly prepared. The land that came out ready to play, we didn't match that intensity. that's, uh, a knockback for me. And then, yeah, some questionable decisions. He just looks scared again, doesn't

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 9:11

Hmm.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 9:12

the end of the half. Which, which is annoying. I know. It was like third and seven maybe, but it, it just looks like we were, we're happy to get in there just down the score to take our chances again, like, you need to, need to make every possession count, don't you really? And I actually thought at times our offense looked quite productive. So I just don't like playing scared, which is against everything that we apparently preach. I dunno, it just doesn't seem like last year in that sense, does it? I get, we've got a backup in and we're not too confident on the back end of our defense, but yeah, I just don't think that sends the message, like, Alan sent that message by taking the opening kick. Didn't, didn't they? And we, we are kind of sending the opposite, so gonna give him a, a particularly great grade for yesterday. Didn't think they came out. Well. We gave up a ton of yards, big plays points. And then we got, you know, terrible first drive, didn't we? So overall. I look that prepared, didn't love all the decisions. Even some at the end of the half, in the second half I thought were a bit questionable. I dunno if you gave space to go for two a early, really, you could argue either way, that paid off, um, kick the field goals super early. I I, get, you gotta get an onside kick either way, haven't you? But I, I dunno, I just, I don't know if I'd love that to be honest either. I think, dunno. But either way it's pretty irrelevant'cause you've gotta get the inside kick either way. But I'd probably just try to score there as well.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 10:32

I would've tried to score as well because of how we were moving it in the moment, and it looked like we were actually moving it. Okay. So I, I, you know, who knows The analytics maybe says kick it and then go for the onside kick to try and then get the touchdown. But yeah. Um, I would, uh. Okay. Pretty much all of that. I don't think you can give him any better than a DI. I don't think he deserves an F. It wasn't like a disaster of a head coaching performance. So I think D is probably fair. Um. Like you said, it was like third and seven or whatever in the first half, but on, on second down, they, they, they ran the ball, um, McNichols on her own like 35 or something earlier. I mean, it was a strange playing scared situation that was matched by Raheem Morris on the other side, which is equally. Bizarre that he did the same thing. Um, not taking a time out when Dan Quinn wasn't taking one. Like as soon as Dan Quinn didn't take time out and the clock started running, then Morris surely should have taken one. I don't think he's very good at that stuff, is he? Um, but yeah, on, on Quinn, probably a d James. Anything different or anything to add or a different grade?

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 11:34

D minus.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 11:35

Okay.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 11:36

Um, yeah, that stuff at the end of the half has pissing me off like the, like the Green Bay game. Um, is there something about these road games where they're not coming out fast? That's probably down to the head coach for me. Um, we're gonna slag off the defensive coordinate shortly, but, that's gotta come down to him and how we start the games and, how we, how he manages the game at the end of halfs. Um, and he's, he's not getting it right on a, on a day where we need it. Defense to really step up and help Mario Oter out, who'd done a pretty decent job, in my opinion. Um, you know, Daniels was covering the cracks and bailing out the defense all of last year, and it's still happening. Um, sorry, I'm going into defense now, but, yeah, D minus for Dan, queen. Um, I was gonna go d but then I thought I'll give him a minus.'cause he, he has, he's the one that's hired Joe Whitt in the first

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 12:29

There is something about the road game thing. I mean, he did say that actually after the game, Dan Quinn said he wasn't happy with, um, the, how, how they played in terms of, you know, being a bit flat on the road again. He made it, you know, sort of made that comment himself and good reminder from you there of that. Um, so I think do you minus is probably fair as well. Um, let's quickly do,

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 12:48

it's not, it's also not like an intimidating atmosphere.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 12:50

no, no, no.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 12:51

You're in a, you're in a dome and like a large percentage of Washington

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 12:54

Yeah. And not a big travel thing either, obviously from DC That's true. Um, yeah. Soft place to go apart from the fact that they were obviously gonna come out hot after the week before. Um, nevertheless, um, let's quickly talk about offense before I let you loose on the defense. Let's try and let's get outta the way and Cliff Kingsbury. And we ended up scoring 27 points and probably only. Only the, the last three were, were against the really soft defense from Atlanta. You couldn't say it was much garbage time really there. It was close. At one point, a couple of points. It was close. The, the furthest it got away from us was 31 16, I think. Um, so it was, it was always weirdly not that far away and in touch despite everything. And the offense, and we can talk about Kingsbury in a second, but the, the players themselves, given how shorthanded they were, I thought, did a pretty admirable job. Um, Marriott and it as well, he made a couple of terrible decisions, a really bad pick and an annoying. Intentional grounding again from him, but broadly speaking, played pretty well with what he had and a few players stepped up again. Um, Lee, your grade for Kingsbury on the day we scored 27 points on the road, how did you think it sort of netted out?

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 14:10

I'll go see. I think there was times when he made the wrong decisions. Um, try to get a little bit too cute when we could have just try to keep, um, you know, just, I think running the ball was working. I'm not sure we need to, to start doing all these ends rounds just to get the ball in D'S hands. I think sometimes you go to that if other things aren't working. Um, but overall, look, 27 points with a backup quarterback and that receiving call a really good output. I think. So teetering on a B minus, but. Uh, I dunno, I think, I don't think it was a perfectly called game, but I think Mariotta played pretty well. Um, but look, the, the depth of receiver is, is bad. And Noah Brown's had injury issues all his career. Terry hasn't. We was just in such a bad position like we really could have done with a or someone yesterday, couldn't we? So. I mean this, these guys are, they would be practice squad or just on the backups for any bad team like Chris Moore. To be honest, McCaffrey's had some good production on kickoff returns. He scored too touchdown in two weeks, which is, which is great. He's not separating too much when I, what I'm sitting, and I, I don't think they love him out there either, to be honest. So.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 15:24

No, he, he's, he's, he's, you know, as you say, he is done well on returns and he is got two touchdowns, but he only had two catches yesterday. And, and, um, more is, should be your fifth or sixth guy on the bubble, if anything. And it's, obviously injuries are, are a problem, but as you said, the depth hasn't been there. Um

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 15:45

That's, that's a massive concern, isn't

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 15:48

hmm.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 15:48

you've got this Chris Moore guy, um, and you've drafted Luke McCaffrey. You've drafted Jaylen Lane, and this guy has run double the amount of routes the other two did in this game. So what are we doing?

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 16:01

So that's a concern for McCaffrey, right? I mean, let Lane as well, but also, I mean, lane is a rookie, but McCaffrey in his second year. Should be. And he is a smart guy, right? So it is not about, oh, he doesn't understand the root tree or anything. So it, it clearly is that they don't think that he can get any separation or they don't trust him doing it, which is a problem. And then someone like Moore who, as you say, had a drop yesterday. I mean, I know the Falcon's guy got his hand in there, but it was such soft, like you gotta pull that in and, and retain the ball. It really pissed me off in the moment. And that was the sort of thing that debell or Terry would've had, or Zakia, like you said, Lisa, a guy like that. Um. The Army Brown. Who knows? I mean, it's, it's frustrating. Um, going off topic a bit, let's go back to Kingsbury. I, I would give him a c plus. Um, but I, and the reason why it's not higher is because of same of what you said, Lee. I think we, we, I. Broken record here, but we really went away from the run or didn't commit to as much as we should have done when we had really good production depend, regardless of who the back was. Um, strange decisions to when the game wasn't, you know, two or three scores down, stick with the run when it was working. Um, that was annoying.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 17:09

Why are we, why are we limiting Crosky Merit's touches so much still that's, that's another, there must be a reason for it. There must be, but it just seems like we're almost holding him back'cause there's hardly any plays. He gets it on the limited ones. He does. He seems to make something positive happen every time to me.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 17:27

He doesn't start the game, does he? It is weird. Like they don't give him the ball until the second quarter, it seems, and then he seems to be rumbling in the fourth, and you think, why, why not give it to him from right, from the gut, from the gun? Like he hasn't shown any fumbling issues yet. He hasn't shown any kind of miscommunication or like looking like a rabbit in the headlights yet. So it's weird. I'm, I'm gonna keep a close eye on it.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 17:49

And, and a game when you need a spark and you've got someone like that.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 17:52

Hmm.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 17:52

And Rodriguez, you know, he had, he got the game started for us with that, what? 50 yard

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 17:57

Yeah.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 17:57

I think between them they only had 14 carries. had over a hundred what? 115 yards? Something like that. And as you say, every time crossing Mount Touch boy looked good and just went away from it again. we didn't quite abandon it as quite like we did in Green Bay, but there was still times where, know, it's not going great. Um, let's get the defense off the field

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 18:18

Hmm.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 18:19

bit. We got a backup quarterback. The running game's going well, I mean. As you say, Lee, they, I love Deebo. He's been performing really well, but they're so quick to go to those end rounds. I think it was our first play actually.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 18:30

Hmm.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 18:30

Um, that's almost getting predicted. That's getting predictable.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 18:34

they

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 18:34

Yeah, that's getting predictable in itself. That

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 18:36

Yeah,

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 18:38

sorry, I, I had a c as

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 18:39

yeah,

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 18:39

Um,

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 18:41

yeah. Fair enough. Um.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 18:42

reasons because yeah, you had a backup quarterback in there. I thought there was some good things, but some, lots of good things.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 18:49

Yeah. Agreed. Okay. Let's, uh, let's get to what we, we came here for and I'm sure what people are, uh, are ready to listen for, which is a kind of discussion about the defense, which was the story of the day for us. Um, and we can talk about individual players, I'm sure you will. The scheme itself. Mistakes, bad, tackling penalties, and the lot. Um, Falcon scored 34 points. Michael Pennix Jr's one of his best games, but I think it was Bijon Robinson. Best career game in terms of all purpose yards. Um, very frustrating. Um, he's a star obviously, and you're never gonna stop them, you know, players like that entirely. But, um, it was a disaster on defense and I'm not gonna let whit off the hook at all for it. Um, and we might get a bit more into the Xs and O's than usual'cause I've got a few things to kind of, to, to come up with this one. Um, but Lee, your grade and, uh, any initial thoughts on the defense?

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 19:43

Yeah, he gets an F for, for me.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 19:46

Yeah.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 19:47

the coach in particular gets an f All the players wouldn't, some on the defensive line would, were doing a pretty good job at times against the run. I said in a preview show, if we can limit Atlanta, I don't expect us to stop Atlanta, then we have a chance. Um. I dunno how he finished the game on the ground, but Fijian Robinson obviously had his, had his plays, didn't he? And there were some that looked a little bit ugly from us. Um, he certainly had had the touchdown with Miss Tackles, but that's not unique, um, to, to Washington. yeah, he was getting, getting open as well in the passing game. And that's where the, the grade just, just massively slips to me. If you look at we've done in the secondary, we've basically. Got rid of all the Rivera disaster picks, and now we're in a situation where we've made some pretty aggressive moves. Right. And it's lamore for draft capital. Um, we left, uh, deje on the board, traded that pick, but the was took in with and got Mikey and we've taken a, and that was in the, the second round last year. And then we've taken Amos in the second round this year. So we've drafted in the second round this year. Um, in the end of the second round, or was Mikey a third round pick? The year before, but pretty high. Right on Friday night, the year before. Um, third round I think. And then, you know, we traded for Lamore, so that's, you know, that's the whole organization. That's Adam. And Pete is working in conjunction, I'm assuming with the, what wit's asking for on the scheme side. And the numbers are just completely unacceptable. It's it, I know we've lost Harris injury, but that shouldn't make or break your season. You've got. Talented players out there and for whatever reason, they're not working in sync, they're not communicating. If you freeze frame some of those plays, they look an absolute disaster. And I completely get everyone going after Lamore as an individual'cause he's literally not made a play for us. I can remember. So I get it. we've put draft capital in place and this isn't me defending him, but I'm convinced we are losing some of these plays before the ball is snapped. Um, with what's going on, it seems like simple motions are just showing the offense exactly what our coverage is gonna be. You got people running wide open. It's just unacceptable to me to give up seven yards of play to Atlanta. This isn't. Buffalo Bills, you know, it's just, I don't, got good players. They're decent, but they're not elite, and we just got completely picked apart again, and that's a massive concern, big a concern that I would change my expectations for the season if they can't fix it pretty quickly. Because any decent team's gonna put up 30 points against us if we can't get any pressure on the quarterback with four and the two games that we haven't, we've got absolutely destroyed on the back end. Also the linebackers can't cover. So if they can't cover, you may as well just bring the house. And we don't seem to always do that either. So yeah. F for me, and I'll let you chip

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 22:51

It is an F definitely an FI totally agree with you. I think you're absolutely spot on about losing some of these, these plays before the, the ball is snapped. What I, from what I can tell, through four weeks of this season, his defensive scheme relies on four guys getting home and pretty quick, right? So like a, a, an exceptional pass rush up front gets home and on the back end, nothing special at all. It's really, really basic and it can be kind of. Pre-snap identifiers with motions can limit players, can confuse people in the backend. We are on the back foot in the backend. We are never, we are never kind of confusing the quarterback with our own movements and disguises or anything like that. It's not, it's not clever enough. Clearly they're not doing enough of that stuff and they're not good enough to do enough of that stuff. What's really frustrating me is. Bobby Wagner can't cover a running back outta the backfield, let alone Robinson. So you just don't let that happen. Right? You, you just make sure that that doesn't happen. Whether that's he's off the field in those downs or you have a safety, do it. You know, cam Kel used to do it when he was here. Really, really poor kind of basic stuff. Um, I think that when we play zone. We get confused and they exploit it. And when we play, man, the individuals get beaten so they don't really know which to go with half of the time. Um, la

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 24:12

Great combination. Great

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 24:13

I think that, I know it might be

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 24:15

I think

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 24:15

simplistic, but like we're not good enough to play his own and we don't have the people to run to do it. And when we play, man, a couple of them get beaten. Sam still is an issue this season because I think what they're trying to make him do is as a zone guy and I think he might be better outside. Again, that might be a move that I would consider moving him outside. And I consider having Wagner off the field on certain fur downs. I know that that means he hasn't got the pass rush ability, but someone like McGee who can maybe cover or whatever might be a bear situation. Um, it's a definite FI I'm worried. This is my biggest concern moving forward for sure. Any good quarterback with any amount of time will shred them in the, in the back end. Um, could go on and on and I won't. James, what do you, what do you wanna talk about on the defensive side?

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 24:58

Um, this grade is serious. I'm giving it a z I've

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 25:03

the charts grade.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 25:05

yeah, no,

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 25:06

that's a Z for

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 25:07

Yeah. Ungraded.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 25:10

Z minus, um, no, genuinely because. Even through the revie years. That is the worst I person, my opinion I've seen on defense and there have been some absolutely atrocious performances we've seen on defense, and I'm sick of it. And, and this, this defense coordinator, this goes back to last year. Nothing has changed. They're still talking about communication. think we retweeted something about the alpha, the game about communication. S him what? He should be sacked.'cause we were, we were bad last year. What, what's changed? I I, as you say, like any, anytime. How, how we are not a serious team right now, as long as this is happening because as soon as we come up against I expect the falcons to be someone who's around the wild card kind of spot. So, you know, a slightly above average team, we, we, as it is, we will not be a team that's slightly above average. this. Then we got Justin Herbert next week. Um, and I would cut Lamore as well.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 26:14

Um, financially you can cut lateral

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 26:17

you

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 26:17

Yeah. Of interest. They won't do it.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 26:19

I, I, I don't blame them for,

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 26:20

they won't, they won't do

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 26:21

I don't blame'em for doing that trade last year because look at what we had. It was awful. So I don't mind them taking a shot at it. and I know we haven't got much else there, but I mean, actually genuinely don't see the point in him being out there. I think he's, we're actually, I'd like to see what we look like without him out there.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 26:36

I, um, go Lee.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 26:38

think it's, I think, I think it's a scheme though. I'm not defending that anymore. He has not made a play for us. I mean, he, I think he's really pissed off as well, so he's pretty attitude. We'll go to shit now.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 26:47

Hmm.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 26:48

wouldn't necessarily be against just benching him and putting Mikey out there. And Noah, Noah, I, what's his name? Sorry, he, how to

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 26:56

I just say

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 26:57

That's

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 26:57

no, I NoMy. Is that.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 26:59

no, I, I've had no I inside, but I'm, I'm, I'm looking at wit more than the

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 27:03

Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. But, and mwi, he talks a good game.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 27:07

talk a good game.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 27:08

But where's this fast, aggressive flying around the pitch that

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 27:12

yeah, I'd say I think they've got slightly better against the

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 27:15

Yes,

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 27:16

and significantly worse against the pass, which has made the defense worse than last year. You're probably better off being. Worse against the run than just terrible against the past. Like they went, like, they looked, they, they started running the ball, didn't

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 27:29

Yeah.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 27:30

then as soon as Pennix hit London a couple of times, they said, these plays are

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 27:33

Yeah. Yeah.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 27:34

Yeah.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 27:35

And he went and had a career day that isn't acceptable. And I don't get, I, I'm not buying this. The roster is what it is. They're old. I'm sorry, we've hurt. A lot into the secondary in these two off seasons. It's an unacceptable return against the Atlanta Falcons, and I don't actually see with what they're running at the moment, how it's gonna get better. So I fire him today? Probably not. Just because it's early. Would I like to fire him? Probably. But

28:01

You've done a hell of a lousy job. You're late and you don't treat our vets right. I'm sorry. You are fired. Get outta here. Right.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 28:11

I do think that, I do think it's, it is getting a, the seat will be getting very

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 28:16

Yeah.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 28:17

When I look at the I, I look at the season in four game increments. As I said, this was probably our easiest. Um, out of the, out the gate here. So if you would look at that schedule and see some of the quarterbacks we've gotta play, this could actually get ugly, which will completely derail our season. So they need to figure something out fast, whether it is changing the skiing quickly, changing the personnel, or looking at the coach. They've gotta do something

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 28:39

Oh, uh, yeah, all

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 28:40

Hmm.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 28:41

multiple things have to happen, including personnel and scheme changes for it to improve. I don't think there's one quick fix. Certainly not on the roster. Like there's not a guy you put in, but like you said, we could, we could move things around. Um, we are short. I mean, we, I mean, I like the Reeve story and he's a special teams sort of. You know, icon, but he, he's not a starting safety. He, he can't, he doesn't wanna tackle properly and he can't, he hits people hard or he just lets them go through him'cause he doesn't rap properly. And he's at, you know, I'm not knocking the guy, you know, he's done a great job of on special teams and stuff, fair play. But he's not good enough. There's many players, not good enough. And the concern is that Amos, who, you know. Has struggled at times like any rookie corner would. He's probably still looking like the best player in the secondary, and that isn't, is a bad indictment of what they've done in terms of the roster, in the defensive backend, um, as, as I was watching the game, um. Dad said, are we any better with our, are we any better with, with lamore than we were with that St Juiced fella? And I said, it's not, it's a fair question. There's not really a lot in it at that point. Right. So that's, that's terrible. And um, it's the biggest concern moving forward for sure.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 29:50

He got,

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 29:50

Yeah.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 29:51

he howled and he still got beat and gave her the reception, didn't he?

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 29:54

Yeah.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 29:55

That kind of, that kind of summed it up to me. I would say on, on, on the defense, I, we are not an X's Nose podcast, but we have, we do, we do know our stuff in terms of a bit of scheme in that. I'm actually gonna look at the film this week and I want to hear someone that really knows. This in depth that I respect, and there are a few of them out there. I quite like the new guy from Maryland that's doing it on Kevin Sheen show. I want to hear this and I want to actually look at the all 22. I'm a bit weird. I look at it more after a loss and a win. I get it. That's strange, but I just wanna see what the hell's going wrong because this shouldn't be happening. They had seven yards of play yesterday. Seven.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 30:35

Oh, I,

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 30:36

And we get how

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 30:37

Yeah.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 30:37

many yards did we grow up?

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 30:38

Yeah.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 30:38

I,

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 30:39

I mean

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 30:39

it's terrible.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 30:40

for a team, for a team that put up nothing. I know there's that, said that score is maybe a bit misleading last week, but they still put up no points against the Panthers

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 30:50

they, they barely, they barely got in.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 30:53

you know, even if they, you know, mentally as well, and

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 30:55

Yeah.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 30:56

How, how are you not making that quarterback feel uncomfortable in

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 31:00

There's a thing that I often see when I, when I hear like this, you know, the sort of clever guys you're talking about, Lee, when they, when they look at X's and O's, which is that they have to play together. The, the line and the back end have to be in tandem. They can't be two separate units, and ours just seem like they are completely two separate units. When that defensive line makes a good play against the run, it is purely those guys up front winning it's Kinler or Payne or whatever winning up front. Um, it's never a kind of tandem thing where, where, you know, we've got to the quarterback because they've. They've managed to do some fantastic coverage on the backend. That doesn't, just, doesn't happen with us. Um, what, who's your defensive man of them? Actually

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 31:38

This is gonna

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 31:39

in for that.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 31:39

because yeah, as soon as the game finished, I put it, I turned the golf off my iPad and put it on the main screen and put a red zone on my iPad and I didn't like look back at it at all. And I've usually looked back a little bit by now, so be hard for me. I think Kylo had done a pretty good job on the run. I'll just go there, but it's a little bit of a stab in the dark. I was just got, I was so angry every time I was watching us on defense and to look at that last drive. Did we bring the house on any of those fare downs? I dunno if we did. So I'm really curious.'cause you surely had to try that on one of them.'cause we stuffed them, didn't we? And we got in a good position and then it just like clockwork, ping, ping, ping. It was like third and seven, fed and six or whatever. I was like, fuck sake.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 32:23

No, we didn't. We didn't. Um,

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 32:26

For the Lee just had to mute

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 32:27

yeah.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 32:28

because, uh.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 32:30

Uh, I'll, I, I don't really want to give one out. Pain had that fumble that he forced when, when Pennix ended up falling on it, that was annoying. Lou Vu had a better day, but not great still. Um, I think he had eight tackles as a sack and a hit on the quarterback as well. But I mean, no one really stood out defensively, obviously. James, do you have anyone or you're not gonna bother?

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 32:53

Um, I was gonna give it to any defensive player that didn't play a snap their arrow is

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 32:58

Okay.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 32:58

because they weren't involved in this.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 33:00

Let me just have a look at the snap counts for you, Noah. I had four count, four snaps and give it to him.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 33:07

Yeah, maybe I, I'll give it to pain.'cause he, he,

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 33:10

Yeah.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 33:11

that fumble at the start didn't fall for us. So I, I'll, I'll give him that. Um, yeah.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 33:19

Offensively interesting for a, a man of the match. Um, I am gonna, I'll go first. I'm. I feel like a broken record, but I think Deebo is, continues to be a hell of a weapon for us and pretty reliable. So Deebo Samuel for me, um, it would've been Mariot if he hadn't thrown that interception and the, um, roughing, uh, roughing and the, um, throwing the ball away penalty. He keeps doing that. He's really bad at it. It's annoying. Um, yeah, Deebo for me is an offensive man of the match. Lee,

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 33:52

Chris Rodriguez, Jr.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 33:53

man, he did play very well, James.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 33:58

I love the way he never forgets to add the junior on Chris

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 34:00

Yeah.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 34:02

Um, yeah, I, I think I said Deebo like two or three times already, but I mean, I don't know who else you could point to, could shout Chris Rodriguez'cause he gave us a spark in that game.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 34:11

Yeah.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 34:12

Deebo was consistent and looked good when he other ball in his hands trying to make plays.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 34:17

It's a hell of a fro from Marriott on the fourth down to Debo to be fair. And that was a great, uh, aggressive call. A great, a great catch throw and catch.

34:24

Fourth down Mariota looking for an all end zone touchdown. Debo Samuel with the silencer.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 34:33

Um, but yeah.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 34:35

Um, quickly you mentioned Lou Vu. He pissed me off. He starts celebrating some like stop we had on a run, but they still gained like four

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 34:41

Oh, okay.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 34:42

and he like a really soft attack attempt himself. So I dunno what he was celebrating for.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 34:47

That is annoying. No, I, I I hate that. I do hate that. When that happened. I didn't, I didn't clock that one.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 34:52

else that brought him down in the

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 34:53

Oh, okay.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 34:54

'cause he didn't get there.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 34:55

Yeah. Um. I suppose a, a, a mention to Matt Gay who hit all four field goals. Well done Gay. Good for you. Um, shame that we had to kick four field goals. Really not that aggressive. Um, shit. Oh shit. Um, this is what, what I wanted to talk about briefly. There must be a better way of trying an onside kick than, than that way of doing it. Um, I know the rules have changed stuff, the amount of people you can have, but when you just. Knock it along the floor for that one that bounces up. It never bounces high enough for it to be like a proper jump ball and I, it is just really annoying. Like surely there's, surely, if you just whack it at them really hard along the ground, it might like bounce up or something. I don't know. It just annoys me. I had no confidence we'd ever get it and no one seems to get them anymore, but

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 35:37

Yeah, I agree. And like there are a couple of, I will say this for our team, there, there are some balls and not bouncing our way. Right? That was a great play from

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 35:45

yeah.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 35:45

on the first drive that punt when it hit Matty's leg, that that somehow just goes to them. So there in, in a game that with this frustrated, we weren. That far off still. So that's my one hope we are, it's, it'll be terrible talking about a defensive performance like this and getting blown

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 36:04

Mm-hmm.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 36:05

37 to seven. Right.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 36:08

True.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 36:08

that's my, like, one hope, but it's, it's really concerning. No doubt.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 36:12

Yeah. And I know we've gotta kind of wrap it up fairly soon, but, um, Jaden is. Supposedly back next week. I think that they're already saying that it's likely Shefter was reporting that he'll play against la um, which is obviously huge. Um, and like James you said earlier, um. He might have to continue to do what he did last year for us to, to win tough games, which is paper over the cracks of a terrible defense and pull rabbits out of the hat for us and keep us on the field. Um, but moving forwards, two and two through four games, um, my, my, my before the season, predictions gonna struggle at this point, um, for us to win out. Um, but how, how are you feeling? What's your kind of barometer, James, on how the season is at the moment? Obviously, recency bias of last night's defense might impact that a bit for you.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 37:01

I think it's tough.'cause yesterday I thought I was watching a lot of the games. I thought there's a lot of good teams, really good teams, and I just don't think really on that level we're just kind of a team that's just gonna be within the mix of a wild card spot probably. So, my expectations gone down a bit. I know it's very early, so I'm definitely not panicking. Um, we just have to hope the offense can be what they were last year because we are playing some better quarterbacks very, very soon. And, um, we're gonna need all our superstars to be able to step up.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 37:38

Lee, have you changed your flights? You're not bothering with LA now or are you still still all in baby?

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 37:45

Certainly not. This is, this is the trip that I've been looking forward to

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 37:48

Yeah.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 37:48

for some r and r, if nothing else on the West Coast, but I'm slightly more alarmed than James. I'd say I, I had us at three in one through this stretch and let, it's just a game difference. But I don't know if I see a, I just don't, I don't see that as just a bad game. I think there's. Bigger problems in the defense, and I think we're playing better teams, but we have been absolutely crushed with injuries. We will get some of these guys back. Some of them we won't. Yeah, not, I'm not giving up for on the season or anything crazy like that. And when you get Jay Jayden back and hopefully Terry soon enough, I think there's plenty there on offense. I think the run game, that's quite good actually. So I think we we're gonna outscore some teams and I think we can pull off some surprises ourselves, but we have to change that from being clearly one of the worst pass defenses in the league looking at yesterday. To somewhere resembling a middling one to, to have a chance of having a really decent year.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 38:51

Yeah,

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 38:52

I think we'll be there, or thereabout still. I think we'll all be in Madrid, around 500, hopefully with plenty to play for, um,

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 38:58

hope so.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 38:59

famous last words, but yeah, I, I, the defense is a concern. The offense. Just went and put 27 up with a backup callback and no receivers against a pretty underrated Atlanta defense. I,

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 39:14

Yep.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 39:14

to be honest, they've got some good pass rushes and stuff, so it's a concern, but not gonna completely, completely change,

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 39:23

Yeah,

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 39:23

10 win

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 39:24

I think.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 39:24

the moment.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 39:25

Outside the defense, I think my concern would be, um, are we gonna get the real Jane Daniels? Is he gonna be actually fully healthy, um, for the rest of the

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 39:36

Yeah,

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 39:36

see. Um, I think a lot hinges on that.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 39:38

that's the big question. Um, dad said, do you think we'd have won yesterday with Jaden? I think it would've been closer for sure. And that's the thing, isn't it? We might have, you know, squeezed past them with, with Jaden, you think about the mistakes.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 39:49

one less field goal and maybe a touchdown.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 39:51

Yeah. And on the, on the field a bit more. Exactly. So it's, you know, who knows?

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 39:54

We'd have probably, we'd have probably had a chance to

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 39:56

Yeah,

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 39:57

whereas I never thought we had a true chance to win it. Even at the

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 39:59

no.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 40:00

there, I, I didn't think we'd get the ball back. So, um, yeah, and, and Terry will be in a massive piece to get back it. I haven't been too in touch this week on, on the socials, but it doesn't sound like he'll be back does

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 40:13

No, it's,

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 40:14

California?

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 40:15

all very quiet on there, isn't it? But not ir

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 40:17

Yeah.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 40:18

I don't know. They're gonna have to bring someone else in or something. I don't, I

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 40:21

Feel,

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 40:22

need to figure out if this is long term or not.

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 40:23

it feels unlikely this week, um, but not on ir, which is good news for the longer term. Um, cool. Thanks guys. Um, we are gonna keep it relatively short and sweet after a loss like that. Um, I'll be digging into a bit of the all 22 to look at some of that defensive stuff. Um, but yeah, onto California. California. Here you come, Lee. Um, I hope you have a, a good trip out there. We'll obviously have a preview episode up.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 40:45

Maybe we can, uh, we can do it from when I'm out there if we can find a, a

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 40:49

When are you, when are you arriving? In the West coast.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 40:53

Uh, Thursday,

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 40:54

Okay, cool.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 40:56

so I would be available anytime on a Friday. Well, there's an eight hour time difference, isn't there? So maybe not anytime, but, uh, sometime on Friday that, uh, I'm,

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 41:05

AM British summertime.

james_1_09-29-2025_180225: 41:08

little margarita.

ledders_1_09-29-2025_120227: 41:09

You could wow it. Yeah. If you do it at the right time, you might get an

josh_1_09-29-2025_180226: 41:12

Let's, let's do it. Let's, let's aim for it. We'll see. Let's aim for a Friday one. We can get it out quick. Um, right. Cool. Good stuff lads. Thank you. Two and two on. We go. 500 is fine. Let's go, let's go forwards. Um, until next time. Hail. I.

41:29

We've been on the run driving in the sun, picking up for number one, California. Here we come right back where we started from Hustles grab you to shadow, driving down the 1 0 1 California. Here we come right back where we started from.