Hail on Three
Three fans, two continents, one team. Hail on Three brings together Josh Edwards, James Barker and Lee Edwards to talk Washington Commanders football—the good, the bad and the downright baffling. Expect game talk, guests, hot takes and plenty of side tangents. Whether we’re winning or rebuilding (again), we’re along for the ride.
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Hail on Three
Brutal loss to the Bears
Josh and Lee get together to discuss the Commanders brutal loss to the Chicago Bears on Monday Night Football by a walk-off field goal. Washington back at .500 (3-3:
- Game discussion
- Coaches grades
- MOTM on both sides
- Injury news (Brown/Terry)
@HailOnThreePod
Welcome to another edition of the Hail on Free podcast. I'm your host this week, Josh, coming to you live from London this Wednesday evening, and I'm joined by Lee only. Lee James is, I think, still at sea. China International Wars. Who knows? James won't be able to join us. He hasn't been able to send anything in. So just myself and Lee this week to pour over what was a kind of heartbreaking, annoying, frustrating, devastating use whatever adjective you want loss against the Chicago Bears, uh, Lee, you are coming to us live from Michigan Avenue in Chicago. How has the last two days in the office been after that loss?
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Hello Sports fans. Yes. If you think you were having a bad Tuesday morning after Monday night football, then she thought for me he had to, had to come in to to the office and take a little bit of banter, I guess we should say. But no, all it was fine. It was all in it. Good, good spirits, but maybe I should have gone a little easier on them last year.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Ah, you've gotta enjoy it in the moment, right? Um, so painting the scene for me, um, I was gonna stay up. My end felt good, crashed about 10:00 PM UK time, uh, and didn't stay up. I did wake up about three at one point, so I'll be interested to know what was happening around that time during the game. But I, I, I did bottle it. I didn't go to the lounge and kind of watch the game live. What did you do for the game? Did you go out or did you stay in, in the end?
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:I stayed in, to be honest. Um, I went out. Very briefly after work, just to pint to settle the nerves and, and grab some wings to bring home. And just, I decided to stay in, you know, when you're out at a bar, you just end up drinking way more like the moment with your friends. So
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Oh yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:was like, I was just gonna relax and try and, uh, try and try and enjoy the game at home with, with a, a little snack and a couple of cold ones rather than going out for a, a bar for four hours on a Monday. I'm very glad I did make that decision in the end.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah, absolutely. And a and a, um, you, you've managed to save a few bucks as well in the process, I'm sure, which is good. Um, not so good as the fact that the commanders are three and three. After falling to the bears, the bears flip a script from last season's Hail Mary game with a walk off feel goal in this one. Um, that does not tell the story of the game. Um. I was reflecting this morning before we get into the details of the game, kind of specifics of how it all went wrong for us, that we've had free losses this season and they've all been very different losses. Um, we've had a loss where we were completely destroyed on all kind of sides of the ball by the Packers on a short week where they controlled both lines of scrimmage and we were never really in the game. We had a weird loss against Atlanta where we were obviously a backup quarterback and, and things didn't go very well. Um, and defensively it was a bit of a shambles, but we tried, we, you know, we stayed with them relatively late. Uh, and then we had what I would consider a, one of my least favorite type of loss, which was this Chicago loss, which was a last minute loss, but a gain that we just threw away, which I think is probably the headline right.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Yeah, absolutely. Is the headline, um, you know, like everyone clams to, to put the blame on someone for any tough loss in sports, don't they? But this was a game for me where, uh, each facet. Of the play their hand in this, this loss. Uh, some more than others you could suggest, but you know that unit had a hand in it, didn't they? We missed a field goal again in the first half. The defense will get into, the offense will get into, but it, this wasn't a, there wasn't one reason we lost this game. Dennis Green leading us in there was the perfect choice because to me. And this isn't sour grapes. Uh, but the bears actually were, were what we thought they were, uh, especially Caleb Williams who didn't come in to, to, to land over and win the game necessarily. Did he? We really did throw this one away, which, which has, that's, that's what makes it a lot, a lot worse.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Hmm.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:on the other side of it, when we were a bad team, we were just getting beaten, aren't we, for four quarters. So it,
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Oh yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:tough one to take. in a way it's like, well, maybe it's a sign of progress, because I haven't felt a gut wrenching loss for a long time. Really. It's usually been in the, you know, beaten by two scores or this
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Hmm.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:So it, it is, it is tough because this is one I do fear, especially considering it was an NFC opponent. We might, we might look back on, um, in a few months time, especially when we look at what's, what's coming up in the next couple of weeks. But yeah, tough one.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah, good point about'em being an NFC opponent. They are, they're now three and two the best in the NFC North for having had their buy nice and early. Um, and like you said, it, it was a case of. All parts of the game going wrong to some extent, which contributed to this loss. We only lost by a point. We did win the time of possession battle For those that are interested in that, in my matchup, um, stat line from, from the previous show. But I would say that minus three on the turnover battle, we'll probably do that to you and make a game a lot closer than it should have been. Um. In terms of the blame, we're gonna get into that and, and sort of what went wrong before we get into the coaches' grades for the game. Um, is there anything else before that, Lee, that you want to sort of talk about General, generally about the game?
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Yeah, we were the better team. That's again, what makes it the harder loss
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Mm-hmm.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:win with a minus two differential, but minus, minus three was, was too hard. Um, we'd done the job. What made it really tough? Um, I did put myself the, the, the highlights, the more level head, uh, the 15 minute YouTube, NFL highlights, and it went to the, the bears bench when we referred and won, they, they were guard. They'd packed it in, they'd lost the game. So this is what really stings, isn't it? We were just a play or two away. There was probably five big plays in the game, at least four of them we. up with the wrong side of, and if we just converted one of them or just didn't make that in one of the others, then we, we win the game. So, yeah, it
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:it's, it's a bit gut, but on the other side of it, I still think there was plenty of good in the game, which we need to also talk about.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah, and I think we'll talk, I, I, I would talk about that now actually. I mean. Jaden Daniels had a good game. Um, it's hard to say that when, when you think of the interception and the, the fumble that led to the Bears drive for their walk-off field goal, but Daniels was very good. He was not in 26 3 touchdowns. His pick was aggressive in the red zone, which was a, which was a bad. Error, but you don't see that many from him. And he rushed for over 50 yards. It was his third highest pass rating of his career. Um, and he outplayed Caleb Williams. Um, so on that sense, I don't think it was a whole what a terrible rusty game from Daniels. Um, he unfortunately was not bailed out by his defense on the other side. Right.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:He absolutely outplayed him. He just made them more critical. Caught errors, didn't he? So that was, that was a difference. Uh, but yeah, I fought, I fought probably between his pick and the unfortunate fumble at the end. was playing really good ball. You
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Mm.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:couple of players he'd wanna have back, but he, he was, he was playing really well in the, in the conditions and I thought he was, you know, head and shoulders the best, best QB on the field. So, it's, it's tough in the sense of what a critical error can do at the wrong moment, but I think there was a few reasons. Um, for that not um, him off the hook because it just can't happen. But he isn't a, a callback that's played in, in those conditions often. So every time this kind of bad situation happens and you just have to hope it's a, it's a bit of a learning, uh, learning moment for him because no one's perfect and we're not used to seeing him make two really bad errors in a game. But
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Mm.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:happened and it was a difference, but it was only told part of the story in my opinion.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah, for sure. And just talking about the, um. Fumble it, it was his fumble. The fumble is on him. If you watch the, the highlights, um, he's in the pistol formation ham one, and he. Doesn't handle the shotgun snap fully well before he starts to try and hand the ball off to Crosky Merrit. So the ball is already coming out and it bounces in the chest of crosky merri. It's not a clean handoff that merit fumbles. So just to, uh, make that clear for anyone that hasn't kind of seen it in the slowmo Yeah. It's a definite fumble on Daniels rather than on Bill.
They're down in one balls on the ground and it's recovered by Nha Wright, and that is takeaway number three for the Chicago defense.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Um, right. Let's get into the coaches' grades. I think that's a good place to start where we can really drill into some of the things that went wrong. In this one. Um, and as usual, we'll start with the head coach, Dan Quinn. Uh, so Lee, a bit of a discussion about Quinn and your grade for Quinn in this one.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Yeah, a bit of a tough one to grade you didn't have an awful night, easy to skew these grades, isn't it? In terms of, you know, one or two plays that went wrong. That was an individual mental lapse. Uh, I'm gonna go CI was bordering on D but the reason I gave him C was I don't, I don't think we started as badly as everyone maybe thinks we did. Again, it was two turnovers on our first two possessions that made the scoreboard look worse than they were say on another day. You know, Daniels finds Debo. You go seven three A, you are like, oh, thank God we're finally taking the lead in the first quarter. So I don't think it was a massive like unpreparedness. Um, I just think it was both units showing what they were, uh, a bad defense on the opening drive and a pretty productive offense that just made a mistake. So I think they were ready to go in that sense. Uh, I did downgrade him slightly the challenge for the one yard, even though it worked in our favor in the end on the turnover and downs, because that's a ridiculous challenge. You can't risk losing one of your two challenges on like a 50 51 yard. Cool. I dunno if the crowd played into it, because it obviously went up on the, on the big screen and they were, very vocal, but you can't let the crowd influence that decision either, obviously. So, just a weird challenge. Didn't, like, didn't like that. And, you know, again, there's, there's elements that you can question. I'm just, I'm not putting him in the D'cause I don't, ID Greg, I just don't think there was anything too. Awful from it, but
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Hmm.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:the scoreboard was 13 zero again, and there was a couple of questions throughout the game.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah, I would, I would lean on a CC plus. I don't think there was anything that particularly wound me up. I think the, the, I dunno, obviously I didn't watch it live and in real time and I only watched it back in 40 twice. I didn't watch the full three hours. Um, so it was harder to tell, but I wasn't as kind of concerned. At a slow start, even though it was 13, nothing that I was in other games, if that makes sense. It just didn't feel as kind of, um, unprepared or sloppy or slow or anything like it had in, in some previous games. And I guess, um, being at home maybe, maybe plays into that a bit. Um, first home loss for a while. Right. Actually, um, we hadn't mentioned that, um, for a long time and we had a heck of a record.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Yeah, and I wanna talk about that because you know, sometimes the team announces a sellout.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Hmm.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:okay, maybe all the tickets are sold, but you can see some spaces in the upper deck and stuff. This
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Hmm.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:kind of crushed me'cause that place was absolutely jumping. That is actual sellout. It was packed to the rafters. The atmosphere was good. I always think despite the stadium having all its floors, it looks quite good under the lights on the full house. So that was, that was annoying in that sense. But yeah, two games, um, that we've lost in about a year Landover and both by one point. Pittsburgh was, was the
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yep.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:uh, you know, questionable. Did he make the fourth down, wasn't it? And that
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Hmm,
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:as well. So considering all the draws we have had in the years leading up to the, era, that does come to show how far we've come.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Um, does, does make it particularly hard to take. Given what an opportunity it would've been to go, uh, four and two. Uh, so Dan Quinn kind of gets, uh, a bit of a let off, but, but certainly not a full kind of mulligan for that one. Uh, c plus from me. C minus was it? Yeah. For C minus from Lee. Um, we're gonna move on to the, uh, offense. Um, and we're gonna talk about Cliff Kingsbury and the offensive performance in general by the team. Um, so obviously individual areas you can. Probably mostly take away from Kingsbury's grade. I don't know. Maybe not. Maybe you might have something to say about that. Um, but what did you think, Lee, of the game plan and the way Cliff executed the offense?
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Yeah, I'm going to say the grade first. I'm just gonna go out with it. B minus. He was operating against, um, a Bears team that did adapt. To what we wanted to do. Any still scheme people open, even with, you know, a very banged up wide receiver group. So I'm not putting the blame on the, on the turnovers from the play calling. I've seen a lot said about the Fed and one shotgun situation that we converted, what was it, 20 of 22 fourth downs last year in that exact formation. It's, that's just history to me. I mean, I would love to have seen, you know. Been able to just power push forward, but we don't really have the personnel to do that, do we? So it is
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:No.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:is. Um, maybe you could have Mc Nichols in there just because he has a bit more experience and Bill has been a bit loose with the ball, but either way he didn't get the handoff anyway, did he? So I, I'm just gonna leave that out a bit. And at the end of the day, JD through, um, multiple passing touchdowns, three of them to schemed up plays. So I think Cliff done pretty good with what we had. Um. Just on that, the bears did definitely adapt. They used their buy well, so I'll give them credit for that. They
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Hmm.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:really loading the box and just daring us to beat them one-on-one, which is, can be tough when you've got Chris Moore out there. He, his best game and caught a really good catch to be fair to him. But
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:we're not gonna get the separation like we are with a full, wide receiver, um, room at our disposal. So overall, he, he stuck with the run quite well. Um, even though the bears were in the box, but I did, I think he adapted where he needed to. So we can't call him out for not giving bill enough carries and then say when he does, oh, we gave him too many. Can we? So I,
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:No. No.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:I think B minus is, is fair because that's a 30 plus point outing without the errors.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah, agreed. Um, yeah, he's, he was a, a a b plus, or he was sporting on an A minus for me, for Cliff.'cause I think he called a brilliant game, as you said, with a really kind of, um, lackluster ultimately on paper at least while receiver core and, and Deebo, who I think was. Partly hurt, right? He, he didn't seem to be fully, um, fully fit potentially. Um, yeah, CA caused a great, called a great game. I particularly liked some of the kind of scheming people open. We talked about how I thought McCaffery got open last year. He is been getting open this year. Um, that was a beautiful play design. To get him leaking out absolutely wide open. Not a bear in sight on that. Touchdown.
Talked about as much, but a valuable guy. Daniel's wide open for the touchdown mcc.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:that. Touchdown. Police from McCaffrey who's got a really high, um, average catch yardage, I think is over 22 yards per catch this season, which does talk to, like he leaks out when gets open. Downfield, which is really good work from Cliff, I think mostly right. Um, they ran the ball more than people kind of probably expected that, uh, considering how. The sort of yards per carry was quite low. Um, but I didn't mind that.'cause it's a commitment to it and it still keeps things open. So yeah, cliff did a really good job. I have actually no problem with a pistol on third one in this game. Um, it gets the ball in the, the running back's hands quicker and it's not a high risk play. I don't, the other thing that's nonsense that people are saying, it's like a high risk formation, anything like that. Like it. It's not, I, I don't, you know, if someone can point me towards stats that show that you fumble it more in the pistol, then good, good luck. I don't think you probably can, to be honest. So no problem with that at all. I think we probably would've gone for it if he got stuffed on fourth and one as well. Um, most likely. But, um, yeah. Um, uh, a b minus for Cliff for me.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Just wanna jump in. Where I, where I didn't get up to B minus or, or Navy A, was despite the, the flaws and, and the defense, we did get the ball, um, with a big chance to win the game without that possession with the fumble, and we ended up having to punt our own 39.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Hmm.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:love that sequence, so that's where I'm gonna slightly, because that was a chance to win the game as well. So that's where I'm gonna slightly keep him in the,
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Okay.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:half of that, of that B, and ironically, the only time that Tress wave was on for the field all night.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No, fair enough. Um, alright, we've gone 17 minutes without a mention, a real mention of the defense or Joe Whit Jr. Um, dunno how long your lunch break is Lee, but have at it, uh, A Grade for Joe Whit Jr. And the Commander's defense.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Yeah, d um, it could be worse. I'm gonna keep him in that category just'cause I only give out Fs for. You know, the worst all time kind of game. At the end of the day, we did keep them under 30 points, which should be enough for us to, to, um, to win the game. And it wasn't. But that is where the positive ends and a lot of that is due to. Maybe a questionable penalty when, uh, Raymond Dean, they caught the ball in the end zone and just some of the bears flaws on offense as well. So yeah, look, the Bears look came out and gave us different looks. I'll give them some credit for that. Again, I was really worried about the tight ends in this game. As me and James said on the preview pod, they were relatively quiet. even Roman didn't say didn't have a great day. So, uh, there was some positives, but that's kind of where they end. Massive, massive step back in the in the run game, which we thought we have really improved on. Well, swift. not getting touched until, at least after four yards of carry, which is a massive, massive problem, obviously. Um, he had a great ama, you know what, amazing performance from him again, he kind of changed the game a bit late last year, didn't he? But this was, this was better. It was over a hundred yards. Right. And
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:55 yarder, which was a game changing play Look, overall, the theme is there's massive issues in the middle of the field on coverage still. a lot of the time, one-on-one we're getting beaten in, man. But you just have to look at that last drive, the game winning drive. After we, the, the game was not over like when Daniel was fumbled. I think as
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:No.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:we're all expecting the worst, but they had a ton of work to do. Right.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yep.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:I was, and I'm sure anyone from the Chicago persuasive love hearing this, but I could not sleep on Monday night for a couple of hours. I usually can. Um, I was actually so angry. I was livid with what the defense put out there. No resistance whatsoever. And there's a play I wanna talk about, and it's the third and five. So think we stopped him for a couple of yards on the first down. Then they got a few more yards. So this is a, who's playing the game? Right? Third and five because yeah, they're obviously going for on fourth down, but the amount of pressure on fourth down and anything can happen, right? that play. So we have, uh, lvu and Wagner on the up on the line. They drop back into coverage and we only bring four now. We weren't getting pressure with four all night. So I, I don't, and they can't cover, so I dunno what the logic behind that is. I would've had them all racing to the line, even including cornerbacks.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:they were throwing the ball there. Look. beat us with a massive play or a screen or someone's wide open, so be it because we weren't stopping anything else, were we? Um, I would say so. Be it. Look, if we're super progressive, so be it because. At the end of the day, that was just painful to watch. It was like when I was throwing the ball to you on a ski holiday in Slovenia, you know, it was back. was like, that's how much time ca had.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:that's how open Loveland was. So watch Frankie leave you on that play. Um, he comes up to the line, he drops back in coverage, but he just drops back in a straight line. Loveland literally walks off. The line of scrimmage. Caleb has it all day. There's not a commander anywhere near him. Um, he gets out quickly, but I mean, it's, no pressure there. And he just, it was pitch and catch backyard. Football and it was embarrassing and I was absolutely feeing'cause I knew what was gonna happen after that. They were gonna run the ball at us. again, credit to Ben Johnson, he decided that you can't run interiorly against Kindler and Payne. And they tried the edge and it worked and we went doing anything to stop it. it was an embarrassing drive. The defense that kicker had just had one blocked. He was on the practice squad called up because of the injury and they got him in extra point territory and that was pathetic. And the amount of times Jaden Daniels was bailed out defense. You think about like at Atlanta game last year, you could, you could go on and on and on the one time. We needed him to, we needed the defense to bail out him And I tweeted this in response to somebody, uh, early yesterday morning. The one time we needed the defense to bail out Jayden Daniels. They, they couldn't do it. Then I heard some very well known radio hosts say exactly the same thing yesterday, later in the day. It's just like, know, it was, I was fuming. Um, and that's where I'm at with it and I do fear for him moving forward, looking at the offenses we're about to face. But we'll get into that later. What says you.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah. Uh, very nicely put. Um, so a couple of things to, to add to what you've said and, and touch upon what you've said. So totally agree about the, um, you know. The, the, the game wasn't over kind of thing when he, when he fumbled, obviously that's the case. But the defense I think is kind of in let off the hook even a little bit because of the fact that Jayden fumbled it and people have said, oh no, Jayden's kind of given them a chance to win the game and what shame and all that. Had we been stuffed twice, you know, gone for it on fourth down and then then been in that position, I feel like the defense would be getting more, more blame or if we kind of almost went free and out. Or he got sacked and we had to punt it away. You know, in that position. With that time left at home, the bears needing a, a decent chunk of yardage. I still would've thought, come on guys like this. This isn't, you know, we, we shouldn't just lay down and die here. And as fans, I think we're sort of getting a bit accustomed to that'cause the defense is so soft in those situations. Um, do you ever remember that, um, guy on extreme skins as it bang bang cartoons? He did those funny cartoons with Dan Schneider and stuff. He, he used to do a really, he did a really good one once where it was, do you remember Greg Moki? And he was just taking the piss outta Greg Moki and it was, uh, Russian four Boss soft zone, Russian four Soft zone.
Come on everybody. Let's go. Shotgun. No, Jay, you're the coach. You have to drive. Oh, come on Bruce. You know I don't drive too good. Well, do you want Menky driving? Why not? Hey, menky, what are you doing? The soft cover, boss. Rush four. See? Good grief. Come on. Come on. It's time to go.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:And like, that was all it was on those drivers. Like, what are we doing? We, like you said, we can't cover, we are not the Eagles. We can't, we don't have those guys in the back end like we we're talking to, to Jim preseason on that pod where we can just keep it in front of us and rally to the ball and make tackle. We, we just can't cover those guys with the. The linebackers and the corners that we have. And I talked about this in our, you know, what should we do as, as, as a defensive scheme to try and change things. You know, play bend, don't break like that and try for the best or go all out and try and make plays. And we obviously in that situation, that's the only thing to do'cause they don't even need to get in the end zone. They then you need the yardage to get in field goal position. So it was an E for me because I was so frustrated with. The play calling, knowing the limitations of the, the players on the field, and you can, you can only play to your players' strengths and that that certainly isn't their strength in that situation. It's really bad. Situational, scheming.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Yeah. I was probably being generous. I guess I've just gone with the actual fact of their, um, offensive output in terms of the scoreboard. But yeah, you, you are probably more on the money with it, to be honest. Um, but yeah, I mean that fed and five, you could watch it all day. It doesn't matter who's the callback is there. Right. And Caleb hadn't been that accurate if we ever did bring some pressure or, or whatnot. So the fact that we just gave up that pitch and catch was, that was like the worst play of the game for me. Um. And then swift just, you know, 15 yards, 10 yards. I know that's as bad, but just situationally, that's the play call, right?
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:the play call. That's what his stent in, they're at midfield. Like what are they hoping is gonna happen there? And you could have had, you could have had anyone that can throw a football, literally, uh, any, you know, decent level, make that play. That's how embarrassing it was. And it's just, just painful because if you get them in fourth down, anything can happen. So the game on the line.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah. And not, not many teams in that scenario I think can rely on a four man rush to get home. I can't really think of many teams that would be that confident in relying on that. Um, and and generally speaking, a four man rush doesn't get home quickly, right? Like,
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:and they're on, they're on the line. So I dunno if they're trying to like fake the blitz and then pull out of it, but they can't cover anyone anyway, so
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:no, no.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:know what they'd send there. But anyway, that was that. But. Talking about the game in its entirety, it's just a poor outing, isn't it? They get on 10 drafts, it's 10 drives. They get in our territory eight out of 10 times. as an away team, full house. Dodgy conditions. They're, they're not anywhere near an average defense right now. I heard, um, Logan Paulson, uh, talk a couple of times in the last day or two, and I think, I know he works as a team. I just think, and he's played the game. I haven't played the game at any level, let alone a good, tight end level in the National Football League, but he seems to be. them off the hook a little bit. Um, you know, he works with the team. I get it. He's not gonna maybe eviscerate them, but he is talking about some of the good things we're doing, and I get it. We have looked good against the run interiorly. Um, but there's
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Well,
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:issues, you know, like, and the, and the one, the one, uh, coordinator that looks at it and says, okay, let's try running to the edge. It works immediately.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:I just, there's, there's something wrong on that defense. They're nowhere near an average defense right now. They're a bad defense right now.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah, agreed. 14 carries 108 yards for Swift and the 55 yard touchdown. Uh, an individual error on that one. Qua Martin, like what is he doing on the sideline? I don't understand if it was, I don't understand. I think in his head he got caught between deciding whether he could try and wrap him or push him out because it seemed like he did neither and it was just a
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:him out.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:attempt. Yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:even even that play if he pushes him out, right.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah,
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:another, that's another third and four pitch and catch by the way.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:yeah, yeah, yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:like they're doing what they want, but um, if he does push him out, obviously they're likely to score some points, but it's gonna take a ton of time off the clock. It's just a huge momentum swing.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:I want,
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:again, and just feels like if we do one thing better, we do the other thing wrong. So
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:yes.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:we're a team that can give up explosive plays on a quick outs. I mean, that's the key drop that could have been a 97 yard touchdown. I think so. I mean,
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Uh, he was gone. He was gone. I, I was about to say, I mean, you actually teed me up here. I was about to say, I wonder if Whitt Jr. Is choosing what to be bad at in the sense of trying to limit the big over the top. Plays 50 yard bombs where he gets beaten in the backend miscommunications between a safety and a and a corner. Um, and instead is, is is kind of saying, okay, if, if I'm gonna get beaten on this defense, it's gonna be, um, death by attrition and chunk, chunk plays down the field and stuff.'cause. Yeah, like you say, one of them, we do one thing well, like stopping the run in the middle like we did before, and we do another thing badly and it's like we just don't have the quality to do it well across the board, which we kind of know in terms of the roster, like it's not a good roster still defensively, but uh, the way that he's, um, going about things is poor. And on Logan Paulson, I mean, yeah, I think you've nailed actually, I think it's the, the element of of carrying water for the team. I mean, that said, when Cooley was still working with the team, he used to eviscerate them. So I think he can do if you, if you want, if you want to be that guy. So, you know, that's a bit annoying. It shouldn't be left off the hook.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:really like, really like Logan, so, so, um, intelligent, the way he like, breaks down stuff. But yeah, I just, I just noticed that and I'm like, let's just call it what it is really. Um, anyway. We could talk for hours about this, so I guess we should get into our man of the matches on both sides.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah. A real quick one on special teams, I guess, because we never do the coaches grade or whatever, but um. A missed kick from gay. Uh, and I know this is an oversimplification that many people are tweeting about, oh, if we've kicked out the bears would've needed a touchdown. I mean, you can't do that sort of game, can you?'cause of the game flow and stuff, but a good point that you missed another kick. Um, and then on the other side of special teams, we did get a block field goal, which was a positive. Um, and Luke McCaffrey had a num, uh, over a hundred return yards again. So, you know, just some, some notes there on, on special teams. Um, Lee, you are man of the match on offense.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Um, on offense. I'm gonna go Zach Ertz. Because I think he caught every ball that went his way, including a touchdown. He was really quiet in Los Angeles and dropped a ball. But yeah, I think he caught six or seven balls and a touchdown. He's proven to be a real good safety blanket for, for Jayden and with our other Titan ends specializing in blocking. that's what Ben Sinner is these days. Um, he can be an important piece. So Let's, let's give it to Erz just on the basis of. I can't give it to Jaden Daniels, even though he was the most impactful in both directions. yeah, that's.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:um, I, I was going between the two and I just, just couldn't give it to Jayden because of the fumble. It would've had it af if it were not for the fumble, even if we'd lost the game and he, and he hadn't fumbled, I think I'd have given it to him. Um, but it was that for me as well. 6 43 in a touchdown and doesn't seem to have slowed down at all from last year. Um, still shakes and gets free and so has Sure hands and is a red zone target and has proven that. So well done, Zacker. It's another good outing for him. And another sneaky fantasy outing for him. Um, did you find someone on defense to give a man of the match to.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:I did, I am giving it to Trey Amos, who was covering Rome on for most of the evening, done a pretty good job and is in the top 15 per PFF. Least in terms of, uh, one-on-one man coverage in the league, second highest rookie in the leagues and have the most tackles on the night. So quietly doing some good stuff as an outside corner, which is about the biggest encouraging thing I can say outside of, uh, kin law probably at the moment for this defense. Um, and. A couple of good, good pass rushes, um, with Armstrong and stuff against bad lines obviously. But in terms of defense of a whole, um, I think Amos is quietly having a pretty good year.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah, agreed. Um, and. For me, it was between Amos and maybe a surprise to some people, but Marsh on Lamore. And that is more because Lamore had a quiet day, the sort of day that we wanted him to have when he joined the team. Uh, only three targets went his way. He only allowed one catch for 13 yards and no penalties, which is kind of what you need from that guy. Um, but it would, it would be Amos as well, especially as a rookie who was going up against a, a tough guy on the outside. Um. He's not looked out of place at all. He didn't since, since, um, pre-season. I'm really pleased about it, obviously having, having talked about him before the draft and stuff, so that's really good. We we're in lockstep. Lockstep on both of our. Of the match for this one. So Ertz and Trey Amos always tough in a defeat to kind of give these out, but both those guys had good games and there was some other players I'm sure that had, that had half decent games on the day. Really. Um, I wanna talk a couple of things, um, before we close off and, and talk about other things moving forward. Um, bill. So Crosky Merrit had a fumble on the day and he only rushed for 61 yards on 17 carries so his worst outing as a pro, 3.6 yards. It simply wasn't working, especially to the left side of the offensive linemen game. Blown up in the run game, um, pumped the brakes on. Anything too negative about Bill. I think on the basis of that game, uh, I don't think we need to panic.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Yeah. And look, the first fumble as well was an area where he'd done similar in Los Angeles, didn't he? So interesting. He's trying to make a play straight away before securing the ball, potentially. Um. And defenses will key in on that. Now that said, I prefer that to happen'cause it's more correctable than just running with the ball in a loose fashion. So it is happening within a couple of seconds of the snap on both of his that were down to him. So
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah. Yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:you wanna see and suddenly keep an eye on, but not hitting the panic button there.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:No, like you say this, this is not, um, I forget his name now. Upright Runner. We had, he used to fumble all the time, um, that we talked about in the past. Um. Matt Jones who would fumble the ball like five, six yards down the field. Every, seemingly, every other play. This is not that at that point. No need to panic. Uh, I saw something else the other week about Crosky Merrick's pass protection, and I don't think that's an issue to worry about either given his game and how sort of effective he is on first and second down and stuff. So, um, let's just let the rookie seventh round, running back, develop, um, and not panic on that one.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:No
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Um.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:no need for a deep discussion, but I will challenge that one slightly. Um, if we're gonna pass with him in the backfield, I do think that is potentially an issue. And it also means when McNichols is in the game, I think defenses are gonna expect the pass'cause he's clearly the best, uh, run blocker. But yeah, same as keep an eye on maybe a little bit.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:True, true. I mean, if it's further and long anyway though, it's, it's kind of what is what it is. But, um, yeah, fair point. I, I think the other two, I, I, I do think, um. It's about balance and, and what we never suggested was that Bill should get every down, every carry back in, in a few, a few pods ago we just said he should get more of the ball and he's clearly being effective. But the other two guys have definitely still got a role to play and, and Ecla would have if he was still healthy.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:I think Min Nichols is a little bit under years, so
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Hmm.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:talking out both sides of our mouth when we're asking for Bill to get more of the ball. But I think Min Nichols has been so reliable and in those conditions, I'm not sure you wanted to lean quite as heavily on the rookie. Um, so I just thought he could have had a couple more put there.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Was Chris Rodriguez inactive?
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:He was not, but he was a game time decision.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Oh one Snap. I just seen one snap for him.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:then, yeah.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah. Jaco Brooks had seven snaps on the day.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:I didn't notice him, but yeah, he got, um, a late call up.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Um, and like we said, um, we've got to give him a little bit of credit considering the stick that we've given. Chris Moore, um, heck of a play in the end zone and had his best day as a commander, so fair play. Chris Moore stepping up in Terry's absence this week. So, um, there are men of the matches discussion about not, uh, it's not heartbreaker, right? Not one of those ones, I wouldn't call it that, but like a really, really frustrating game to have thrown away. Um, it does help to have a little bit of distance before doing the pod, I think, and doing it today. Um, but we're still free and free and, and it's more about now looking forward. We will get a Dallas podcast out on Friday. We won't talk too much about that now, obviously, but we do have a tough schedule coming up in the next few weeks before we start to pack our. Uh, Madrid gear and get excited about the Dolphins game against the dreadful just disaster of a franchise at the moment in Miami. We've got some really tough games before then, right?
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Yeah, this is why the game was. Uh, double gutting toes because you look at the gauntlet that's coming up and I'd include game just in terms of how our defense is looking, but we're gonna get into that on Friday. Uh, yeah, look at the four offenses we have before we, uh, play Miami. So we have Dallas, we have Casey at Arrowhead on a Monday night. They're obviously getting into their groove a little bit now. And then we have Seattle coming to town and Detroit. So you're probably talking about. Three of the top, maybe not five, but not far off teams in the NFL at the moment. Um,
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Three and seven.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:I
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Madrid.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:that's what I absolutely hated the thought of and it did cross my mind after looking at this defense say, Sunday's game just becomes massive
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:It does. Yeah. Yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:about that on Friday. But yeah, that I'm worried about where Joe Whit Jr is gonna be in a couple of weeks in terms of his defense, because. If we get out of, uh, jail and go 500 over this, this stretch, then it's gonna mask his defense. I'd assume that J D's played out of his skin. but we lose a couple of high scoring games, look out, the noise is gonna get very loud.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:It is, it is. And the narratives will start to wind us all up. I'm sure online and James will start to get into it with people on X and it'll all be fun, fun and games. But look, that's what we're here for. Uh, rain or shine, whatever happens. So, um, a quick one, um, just wanted to check with you. So when do you land in, in Europe? Are you around for the Detroit Lions game or are you still in the States before Madrid's looking at it?
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:back in the UK that weekend
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Okay, cool.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:your birthday weekend as well. Right. So, we'll,
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:have something, something planned.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Excellent. Good stuff. Good to know. Um, 9 25 kickoff hour time uk which is great on a Sunday. Okay. Um, let's, uh, you had a couple of extra things and you've just seen some stuff. Injury news before we close out, I.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:we're, we're recording this, um, Wednesday lunchtime in the States and Ben Stand. have just refreshed his Twitter feed. So some big stuff. Really. Uh, Noah Brown to ir. Which
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:okay. Wow.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:obviously reflects really badly on the team. Not picking him on the ir, they were hoping he was gonna bounce back from it. But you can just pretty much write his season off at this point, I would say, um, unless you suddenly get a healthy Noah Brown in late November or whatnot. But yeah, that's not a good look for the team after what they've come into the season with wide receiver. We'll probably get into more of that in terms of the, the Dallas preview. Um, but Terry is gonna practice. Status is to be determined,
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Okay.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:great, great surprise. I was not expecting Quinn to come out and say, Terry's back. He's good to go. He's not really our style is it? So, fingers crossed on that. Uh, I'd say that's good news if he's a full go at practice at least. And
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Hmm.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Cosme expected to be activated, which I think they kind of have to,'cause they started his clock. Um, so let's hope he's involved. I thought that was Wiley's probably poorest game the other night as well.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yes.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:So that's good news. Outside of the Noah Brown situation,
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:said Armstrong uh, did the walkthrough and that's encouraging. We'll see where he is at. Dan Quinn said did come back in the game after he was questionable to return and even had a sack. So fingers crossed that hamstring wasn't aggravated too much when he had to come out. So they'll obviously be roughing him up in cotton wool'cause we really, we need him going back to his old stomping ground at Jerry World on Sunday. So some. Live reaction there. Josh, what you, what do you think?
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:I was just trying to, trying to think what my instinct, gut, gut feeling is on Terry for Sunday based on that news. Um, but too early to tell. I think, we'll, we'll be able to talk about that in a bit more detail in the Dallas pod. Um, really bit gutted about the Noah Brown situation.'cause I feel like that, like he's, he's not, you know, he's not Jerry Rice right? But like, he could unlock a bit of, of extra help in the, in the offense if he came back. And, and that would be really good. And he's been relatively reliable, so that would've been good news. So I'm a bit guided about that. Okay. Um, not to worry. Um, we will power through and let's hope that Cliff can continue to scheme some guys open regardless. Um, and look, it's Dallas Week. Always good fun. Um, they're an interesting, fun team. We're gonna get into that on Friday, I am sure. Um, just you and I, I think still on Friday, James got some work to do and he comes back, isn't he? Jesus. Um, but we'll have a good preview show and I'm looking forward to whatever your look back is for that one. Got a lot to choose from.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:I love to choose from. Yeah. And well done to us just getting all these shows out still.'cause we've had, uh, people all over the place globally a bit. Um, so. we, we took our medicine, we sucked it up, and we, we
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yep.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:on here and we'd done the recap you know, congratulations to the Bears. We'll see how their season goes with their average quarterback
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Oh, I'm gonna cut that out. Oh no, I'll leave it in actually. Yeah.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:There was always gonna be another line.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:no. We'll, um,
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Maybe we'll meet again. Who knows?
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Yeah, well hopefully not after the schedules. Frame them up at year after year after year. Although I would like to, to maybe play them sometime.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Playoffs.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:distant future. They're not getting out the north. Um, and anyway, um, yeah, we'll, we'll be back very soon. I think we're actually gonna record tomorrow, but then we'll have it out on, on Friday and we're gonna put this one behind us and talk all things Dallas, us.'cause as I said, that game takes on a. massive potential moment in our season now with that loss. So yeah, we'll have to get ready for it.
josh_1_10-15-2025_190255:Yeah. Absolutely. Alright, nice one Lee. Good stuff. Uh, until next time guys. Hail.
ledders_1_10-15-2025_130255:Hail.