8 game skid heading to the Meadowlands

Josh and Lee discuss the shutout loss to the Vikings on Sunday before moving on to preview the upcoming Giants game. Lots of chat about Dan Quinn (hot seat?), the defense, and the 8 game losing streak alongside the macro view of the franchise. James dials in his recap of the Vikings game and his prediction for the G-Men.

@HailOnThreePod

Transcript

0:01

Typical fucking Washington bullshit. For Jayden Daniels today was gonna be hot as that left elbow hold up, and he got blown up by Isaiah Rogers here and landed hard on that left side. Yeah, honestly, he, he's taking too many hits today and, and this, this one being the worst one just because of the way he landed on that elbow on the ground. Quick strike. Hawkinson stays on his feet. Touchdown. Had to get him leverage. On this out Cutt course you got Jordan or uh, Justin Jefferson outside just attracting attention, softening the corner just enough in order to complete this ball. And then TJ Hawkinson does the rest. Hello fellas. Um. Hope you're both well, yeah. Just coming in with some quick thoughts on, uh, the game of the weekend. Uh, first of all, Leah, hope you had, uh, a good day out despite, despite what unfolded, um, pictures look great. It looked like a great place to go and watch your game. So looking forward to listening back to the PO and hearing how that went for you. Yeah, we've obviously had so many different, uh, ways to lose a game this season. Uh, most of them blowouts all different in their own way. This one kind of hit different, um, uh, she felt sick to my stomach, uh, with this one. Um. Would like to start on our first offensive drive. Um, run the ball really well, moving the ball down the field. Um, and then Cliff decides to draw up three, um, passing plays. Um. Second and goal from second and goal, uh, on the two. So including a, what a trick play to a lineman in the, in the end zone. I mean, we have won for like two months and you want to start fucking around with that? Come on. Just get the ball in the end zone. Run the ball in, uh, Chris Jigo is running well. Um, and the game just got silly after that. Would it change anything? Maybe not, but it may have helped the general vibe around the team to just punch that one in and, uh, make a game of it. So, um, cliff made a real mess of that, uh, to be honest with you. Um, let's skip ahead. Uh, I don't wanna ramble on too much. Um, obviously, uh, we weren't looking like we were gonna win the game. Um, I don't think Jaden looked too great if we're being honest. Um. He wasn't making quick decisions, missing opportunities where people were actually open, I thought. Uh, but anyway, he threw an interception. Um, this is a point where he just throwing every play. There was no run game. Um, he was either gonna get hurt or he was going to, we were gonna turn the ball over. Something was gonna happen and it did. And, um, he ran after him, which I think he's gotta be a bit smarter there. Um. I know he is trying to do his bit for the team, but there's other players that were close enough to chase that down. Uh, yeah, I kind of, I just turned it off after that actually. Um, I didn't realize I. Uh, he got injured. Um, so I flipped over to RedZone and, uh, yeah, though I see him on the sideline, I just feel sick to my stomach at that. Uh, and then lo and behold, about 10 minutes later, they go back to the game and Zach s has got a horrific injury. Uh, everyone looks distraught and, um, I, I've seen that. That tackle back and that guy needs to get a suspension. I mean, you get one game ban the other week for Jamar Chase, um, for a and, uh, yeah. I mean, yeah. As I say, we saw Jamar Chase of, uh, one game ban for spitting. This guy needs to get a ban. There's uh, no need for that to go that low. Um, so yeah, guard for him. That's probably a career ender. Uh, he doesn't get, doesn't get to go out on his own terms. I know he was gonna have the decision to make in your season, but this probably makes it for him, unfortunately. And just capped off an awful day. Um, I didn't, I didn't see anything else. I think, I think Mario's had a pick on one of his first plays. Right. Um, but that, that's all irrelevant. Um, a truly awful despicable, all round performance off the back of, uh, somewhat promising performance, uh, against the Broncos. And I personally feel embarrassed, uh, for falling for what we saw last week and get excited for this week and thinking we could go and win. Um, how stupid do I look? And, uh, I guess we're all a bit excited about it, but, um, yeah, really. Really sickening to be honest. And it'd be interesting to see what comes up on hard knocks. Um, Dan Quinn's running out of words to say, um, I don't know. Uh, another blowout against the Giants. Then what? Um, let's see. But this was a mess from top to bottom. Uh, yeah. Against a team that's really struggling and down the dumps as well. So, um, what else can you say? Um, but yeah, anyway, I hope you had a hope, you had a good time, Lee, and, uh, catch up with you boys soon. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. A quick note before the podcast proper starts. We recorded this before the news that Jane Daniels will be held out of Sunday's game against the Giants, and Marcus Mariota will be starting. So any discussion about the starting quarterback for this coming game on Sunday? He's a bit mute, but we had a good chat about that. Anyway, on with the show. How would you describe the culture surrounding this football team? You know, the culture is actually damn good.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 6:20

Hello and welcome to another edition of the Hail on Free podcast. I'm your host for this week's episode, Josh. I'm joined by Lee across the pond, and you just heard James in the intro and his thoughts on the game on Sunday. Uh, a game which I predicted an almost shutout victory in our preview pod filled with confidence and boys by previous. Interesting, but not necessarily indicative performances against Denver. Um, Lee, as James mentioned, you did make a brief trip over to the Twin Cities for this one. How are you doing and give us your immediate thoughts off the back of James' frustration and diatribe there.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 7:07

Hello Sports fans. Yeah, James pretty much summed it up. You could hear the dejection in his voice. I don't think any of us really saw that coming, despite how the season had been going up to now. And I agree, the kind of Denver did throw us off a little bit and maybe, maybe we did read into too many of these bites and moral victories that were coming out. Ashburn and I did take a quick 45 minute flight over there for a day trip after the Jaden Daniels news was announced and tickets had plummeted to around the$40 mark with both teams. Having such a sucky year. But yeah, I guess you could say that was a mistake, although I think I have a new favorite stadium in the NFL.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 7:52

Yeah, it did look awesome and it did look like a cool trip and, and proper winter December NFL weather, which is always good. 40 bucks is an absolute bargain that's cheaper than my ticket for this evening's zip switch versus a stoke match.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 8:04

Yeah, it's incredible, really. I, I looked at the day and it was my subway to O'Hare was actually longer than I was in the air to Minneapolis, and it was cool because of how cold it was, which sounds a crazy thing to say, but it was even, you know. 10 degrees colder than here. But the idea of like. Being, going to a sporting event in that weather when you know the game's gonna be indoors and then the bar scene outside. It was really cool because the stadium's downtown, and to be fair for Vikings fans, they show up. It was, the tickets were down, but it was still full. It's not like a scene that you see at FedEx when we've got two or three wins late in the year. And it was actually like a kind of fun, uh, atmosphere around, around the ground. And yeah, just, just went, had a couple of pints of Guinness, watched that disaster and was home for Sunday night football.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 8:52

Nice, nice. In quick, in and out. Um, I did wonder if you might be getting an earlier flight at one point, um, 31. Nothing loss. Shout out. First shutout since, well, these things aren't that interesting, these, um, stats now because it's the first shutout, but only since 2019. So it's not like it's 20 years since we've been shut out and we're also on an eight game losing streak. But that's only. Two years old because in 2023 we had an eight game losing streak. So these sort of frustrating, disastrous stats aren't as interesting as they could be because we've not been very good until last year for so long. But obviously eight games is, is an eyeopener for people across the league. It's the longest losing streak at the moment. The league and it was against the team that we thought we might have a good shot against beforehand. I know there was some maybe mindless optimism from me a little bit, but JJ McCarthy had been struggling all year in and out of games and not playing particularly well. A couple of weeks ago, O'Connell said they were gonna completely revamp his throwing mechanics, so it seemed like that worked against us.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 9:55

Yeah, we were favorites on the raid, so we gotta remember that were coming off probably one of our better performances of the season and we had our crew back together, didn't we? At least on, on our fence. So we were the healthiest we've been for a while. I am glad you're here, Josh, actually.'cause you have to keep me on the, the straight and narrow and not to go into too, too much macro, bigger picture stuff, but it's hard not to, isn't it? With, with what we're watching at the moment and I've got, I've got some choice words about the whole, the whole game. And was a slight little part of me that. I gotta find the right word here. I was never pleased to ever see that, of course, but I was getting a little bit annoyed about the overemphasis on how much Dan Quinn had changed the defense after Madrid and Denver against two. Well, at least Miami, pretty pretty hatless in terms of tour at times, and strength for their team is very clearly on defense. And it was, I think that that Kevin O'Connell is a smart football guy, and he'd probably watch tape of this ridiculously soft zone that we were doing to stop giving up the bigger big play. And there was McCarthy just, you know, dissecting us with our corners about 10 yards off the ball. Again, it's an embarrassing watch. we'll get more into Quinn later. But yeah, that was, that was a shameful output on defense. so on the defense in my mind, despite getting shut out.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 11:26

Yeah, it, it was, and we didn't get any pressure. And McCarthy, once he gets into a little, like I said this in the preview episode, he reminds me a bit of Kirk when if he gets a couple of rhythm throws going, then he starts to, to progress further down the field. And he started to do that. He hit, you know, as you said, it was schemed very nicely. We weren't able to get much. Collapse the pocket or get to him, and then he was able to hit the outbreak as to Addison and stuff and start to gradually, um, get more confident. And to be honest, it looked like they could do what they wanted. Um, which has been the story of the season of the defense, regardless of whether it's been Dan Quinn ultimately, and I agree with you, I think it is a, a very much a, um, a reality check for some of the fan base who did, you know, took a little bit too much positivity out of. As you said, a Miami game in Madrid and then a Denver game where we showed up, but ultimately their offense has nothing to, to, to shout about, even though they've won 10 games by the way in a row.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 12:27

yeah, they have Denver put up 400 yards against us and at the

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 12:31

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 12:31

the half in overtime walked through us like a, you know, like a knife through butter, didn't they? So

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 12:38

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 12:39

suddenly say that the defense was good, it was just looking a bit better. Um. But people will watch that tape and see that we are just so scared of giving up the bigger play to be embarrassed

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 12:49

Mm-hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 12:50

of snaps that we've, they're now just saying, oh, well, we'll just take the easy

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 12:54

Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 12:54

down the

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 12:55

Patience. Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 12:56

down the field. And we'll take 12 minutes off the clock and we'll do it in 98 yards when we are the worst fair down team in the league. So

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 13:03

Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 13:04

that was a performance that will probably live quite long in Washington history as being so bad. Like we were talking about this part, about that, um, Kansas City game, weren't we in 2013? Like surely this is gonna be one that in 10 years time people are gonna go. Do you remember that team in Minneapolis?

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 13:23

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 13:24

I've got bad news for you, Dan Quinn. That one is on your resume.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 13:28

It certainly is. Uh, I think Dan Quinn is now 500, uh, as the coach in Washington after that, which is, uh, quite a remarkable thing given last season. Um, yes, very much so. I did wanna talk about the offense a bit as well. Obviously shut out. Jay and Daniel's back before re-injuring, uh, in the third quarter. Um, there was one thing that. Kevin Sheehan mentioned in his pre-game podcast about this game, keys to the game, which was not to do anything on Andrew Van gal's side in terms of screens and throwing to that side'cause he is that, um, athletic and that cleverer defensive player. And we did just that. And then he picked off Daniel's on a screen attempt. Um, so I was like fair play to Kev for pointing that out for the game. It was one of those things where we drove the ball down the field and then inexplicably made I think poor. Decisions at different points early in the game, and then it just got away from us, obviously. So it was one of those ones where we could have been in it for a bit, but I wasn't particularly happy, as James mentioned in the opening with some of the play, calling down at the goal line.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 14:32

Yeah, the weird part of that game was, um, I was watching the first drive with Daniels at the helm. He gets good ball to Terry early I was like, what a response is this? You know, j d's first drive back in, in, in the game and we're looking pretty good here. And yeah, we'll just, we'll just even it up and. we'll have Jade and Daniels go and Tae tote with JJ McCarthy in a tight game and we'll come out fine. But yeah, that all suddenly unraveled rather quickly. Didn't that, and we, we should mention the sequence because it was a nice looking drive and we get down there with, again, Rodriguez looking like a really good back and I think he was popping what, 7, 8, 9 years of carry on that drive. Um, yeah, look, I I'm not against trying. Stuff on the goal line in the passing game. It, it works with a lot of teams. It works for us with Zach s it works for us with, with dbe, I am against doing it three times and not at least trying one run because you know what, if it doesn't work and. You turn over on downs, at least you can say, well, you can't come at me for all of it.'cause I did try and run and we got stuffed, so I need to be more creative. But when you just try and drop back and pass, then, then the knives are gonna be out if it goes wrong. And that was where my

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 15:47

Mm,

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 15:47

on it.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 15:47

I agree. And I guess we're getting into the minutia a little bit, but I think it was worth talking about because that was an early frustration when, like you said, we looked like we had come, come back at them quite well. Um, but really, really nothing worked after that did it? I mean, they, they were able to stop the run. They're able to, to mix things up with their blitz packages. Um. Rodriguez did have 5.2 yards per carry on only 10 attempts, but he is only gonna have 10 attempts when you're that far behind. Right. So you get get behind early and you weren't able to come back in any meaningful way.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 16:21

Y Yeah, I, I still think he was under

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 16:23

Mm-hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 16:23

first half when we were like 14 down and

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 16:25

Mm-hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 16:26

yeah, the Vikings were a good defense. We knew that coming in. I actually really liked Brian Flores. I think he's a, he's a tough coach, and so we could deal with some of that around here sometimes. But they, um, they're a really, a really good blitzing team, aren't they? When I was watching the game, look, I know when you're watching on tv your interest must start waning when it gets, you know, above 20 to zero. But I think I put in our chat and I was like, what are you seeing here on the, why have we not got any, why have we not got any answers to these blitz packages?'cause this is what they do. Right? And there was just sometimes, I dunno if we weren't sliding the protection, I dunno if the plan wasn't very good, but there was like a free runner, like multiple, multiple times. And to me that's. of concerning,'cause everyone knows what the Vikings defense is and it was like, where are we? are we there? Or maybe, maybe it was a really bad matchup for him to come back to when he is not played with these receivers since week two, et cetera. So there is maybe some of that. But yeah, you wanna see him out there and tested, don't you, in that. And I'm not sure if he was helped all afternoon without stuff, to be

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 17:28

Yeah, agreed. And it wasn't like we had a patchwork offensive line out there either, so that was, that was concerning as well. And we did have that full supporting cast, supposedly healthy, certainly Terry looked healthy. Um, talking of healthy, a really unfortunate situation with Zach Ertz on what was a, a pre-day hit. Um. ER is out for the season. It could be a career ender potentially. I know you watched Hard Knocks Lee last night and there was an Ertz feature. Do you wanna talk a bit about that as well? Leading into the injury chat?

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 18:00

Yeah, I watched hard knocks'cause it was gonna be interesting to see how, how much we were featured on it. And there was any, uh, you know, Dan Quinn stuff after the game. I was very, uh, interested to hear how, how he was talking to the team, et cetera. But in a, probably a tougher twist of fate, I guess they. Erz heavily featured in the game planning part of the week and it was, it was almost a tough watch because you were just hearing everyone say, you know, how is the ultimate professional and how much he means to the team and stuff. So it was, it was almost'cause he knew what was coming, obviously it was almost like a tough watch. And then the poor guy was in tears as he was on the cart. He knew and. Yeah, it was, it was rough because Zach TZ has just been incredible for this team, you know, for two years where you kind of expect him to be more of a kind of Von Miller signing when we first signed him. Right. He, maybe he'll catch a few balls and he'll be a, a red zone target here and there, but what an incredible 2024 he had. And this year, I mean, even you just go back to the Denver game, right? He's. He's still been doing it. So really tough to see. I mean that part of him, like actually in tears on the cart was just so, that's a hard watch'cause you know, you know, he's what, mid thirties now and he's still trying to play and he is playing at a level and that was rough to watch and I, I seeing it live, I hate that that hit, I thought he went low. I just, I dunno, dunno, it looked dirty to me to be honest.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 19:23

It did, it did to me as well. And, um, yeah, echo, echo, everything you've said. I mean, he's. He's one of those tight ends that does not have to rely on anything but his, his skill and his smarts and his ability and his technique now at this age, right? He is not a fast, tight end. Um, he reminds me of kind of a number of tight ends. We've had played well against us over the years, including himself when he was in Philly, but also people like Witten and stuff like that, who's just able to hit the soft zone. And he's been really remarkably good at his age for us for over two years actually. Concerning that, we don't have a. Acker's protege on the team in spite of drafting one in the second round. But we're gonna get into draft chat and, and Adam Peter's chat and stuff as we go through the rest of the season. And probably a good time actually to discuss before we move on from the Vikings game. Or as we do, um, we're gonna slightly change things up, aren't we, Lee, in terms of our cadence moving forwards, given that we're a three and 10 team and it's, it's getting towards the Christmas period, uh, we're unlikely to do the same sort of segments as we've been doing all year or some of the year in terms of kind of made of the match and coaches grades and stuff like that. And we're also as, as of as we are today, combining the recap and the preview show. So it's gonna be a little bit less frequent, but quality of a quantity, I, I'd say.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 20:39

Yeah, we had an executive board meeting after this blowout and we've. Just we look, we're going into the Meadowlands and is anybody really gonna be really hanging on every word about scheme and where the matchups are to win this game against the, what are they? The two and 11 giants say the season is done. We try to inject some more energy into it after the Denver game. But yeah, it's all a bit depressing, isn't it? So just where everyone, as fans', heads are at, we're probably gonna be talking. Bit more bigger picture on a weekly basis. Looking at the game, we'll still throw some predictions out there. We'll still do a recap like we just have, but we're gonna be looking at, you know, the bigger picture stuff where this leaves us and probably the tough conversations that may be looming ahead for the staff. But yeah, we'll be getting, uh, a weekly pod out throughout the festive season, but changing course a bit.'cause I don't think. Fans are, are too about, um, some of the games coming up in terms of what, what might be.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 21:37

Mm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 21:37

we're gonna, we're gonna look bigger picture.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 21:39

Yeah, good. A good, a good call. I mean, James wasn't on that board meeting, so who knows what he thinks about that decision, but I'm sure he'll be, he'll be okay with that. I know he's off to, uh, Iceland for some festivities next week anyway, so, so him, we can make the decision.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 21:52

he'll still, yeah, maybe he'll throw a matrix out there. Um, for, for one of the games, we haven't played Philadelphia yet, so I'll do a look back, at least for won the home or away games. Philadelphia, we've already obviously done one for the Giants in Dallas anyway,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 22:05

yep.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 22:05

I'll do, I'll, I'll pick a game, um, maybe for the home

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 22:08

Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 22:08

Christmas week. But outside of that, we are gonna be, uh, we're gonna be analyzing how this team is responding to what has been rough, rough year.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 22:18

Yeah. And actually hard knocks in season does make that quite interesting'cause we can see a little bit more than we might do usually, uh, as that continues, which is good. Um, Lee, anything else on the Vikings game at all on your experience before we move on?

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 22:30

Yeah, nothing else for me. Um, just I'd put it up there obviously with, um, in terms of my resume at being at Gaines is, is up there as one of the worst because no one saw it coming and it definitely signaled where this season. We knew where it was heading in the win-loss column, but could it be heading in a different direction to what we all thought would be impossible?'cause I tell you what, it's easy to say our last year credit in the bank, cetera, et cetera. You cannot put that out on the field too many times without being under serious pressure. So that's

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 23:05

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 23:05

I'm looking forward to, to chitchatting about shortly.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 23:08

Nice. Okay. Nicely teed up. Um, you mentioned that we obviously are heading to New York or New Jersey who had to play the Giants, uh, this weekend, the two and. 11 Giants who currently hold the number one pick on a website, which is back in my favorites, tanka on.com for the draft order. I have the Giants at two and 11, um, have lost seven games in a row. They're coming off a buy. Um, they're also favorites for this game. Two and a half point favorites Lee. So Jackson Darts, New York Giants two and a half point favorites on Sunday. Uh, let's, let's hear immediately from James, um, and his prediction. For the Giants game on Sunday before we get into it.

23:51

Hello fellas. Uh, me again. Uh, yeah, prediction time. Looking ahead to this week, I mean, it's hard to think about anything about this game. Um, the games between these two teams over the years have been poor enough as it is, so, uh, yeah. Luckily I will be in Iceland when this game is on, so I will not have to watch it. Um, I. Yeah. But anyway, let's get on with a prediction. Uh, this could go either way. It could easily be a low scoring game between two really poor teams, um, but also two pretty bad defenses. Uh, the Giants, I don't even know who their coach is now, know they sat there, defensive coordinators as well, and Abdul Carter has been, uh, inactive for a couple of games due to, uh, tardiness and things like that. So they're a mess themselves. So this could end up actually just being. A high scoring game just between two really bad teams. Um, but there's no way I can predict a win for us after what I've just seen, even though we're playing a team who, you know, let's face it, if we won on Sunday, would we be that surprised? Um, but I refuse to, um. Predict this team to an after what I've just seen. So let's go 30 to 27 to the Giants. Uh, overtime again, uh, they win by a field goal. Uh, let's say, um, yeah, let's see what happens here. Uh. Wake me up when we can start playing spoiler, uh, for the Cowboys and Eagles games. But until then, um, I will be off in Iceland. Um, rejuvenating and um, getting ready for the festive period. Have a good one. Chaps Hail.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 25:47

Okay. And, and even more resigned James, I think on that, on that clip as he has to look forward to a game against the two and 11 Giants team. Um, if we were playing the two and 11 Giants in December. We, if we knew that at the start of the season we might be a bit more confident about how our season was, but as it is, we're only one game ahead of them. James thinks we're gonna lose the game in quite well. It sounds like an absolute barnstorm at 30 27. Um, you take that maybe, I dunno, who knows at this point? Um, yeah, Jackson Darts back for the Giants and they're offered by, and, uh, I dunno about you Lee, but I'm, I'm not particularly confident in this one.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 26:24

Probably not. I haven't really watched much of the Giants since their season derailed either with, with injuries and their usual gut wrenching losses. But they seem to be a more competitive football team in their losses than we've been at times this year for sure. Um, obviously DART has shown some, some promises, hasn't they? And. He got, well he got that signature wind in against the Eagles at home. Um, who knows? I mean this is gonna be the least watched football game of the season probably in the league outside of some diehards. I mean, Washington fans will be watching'cause they'll be interested to see, guess, Jaden Daniels and if they're gonna have a reaction to what happened uh, last week. So, I dunno, I really have no idea what to expect to just two. Teams in a terrible position the giants come out and actually lay it on us, though it could, things could get really interesting. So I guess I'll be watching Oneness to win because I'm not doing the draft stuff yet, but I'm getting closer and closer. That said, if we do beat a two and 11 football team, I don't need to see, you know, room celebrations and high-end features about what we've turned around. That will just annoy me as well. I know social media. From the team will have to put it out, I

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 27:38

Wow.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 27:38

you know what I mean? It's like, to me it's like, no, don't, you're not masking anything if you go in and beat the giants at this point. So I don't really wanna, that's kind of annoying me, weirdly. You know

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 27:48

No, no, no. I,

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 27:49

if that happens.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 27:50

I agree. I mean, you know, the, the after Denver, the, you know, we lost, but we are not lost thing. Nice soundbite. Love that. James liked it. We are lost. We're very much lost. We lost eight games in a row. We don't have an identity. We're aging and we're struggling to put our competitive team on both sides of the ball. So we are very much lost, Mr. Quinn, in my opinion. Um, Lee, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say something a bit controversial. I, I wanna. I'm not bothered if we lose this game. I don't really mind. Um, it's, I'm, I'm at that point now as, as a three and 10 team. Um, the closer we get to number one pick, the chances are someone does something stupid and trades up, try and get a quarterback, and we get a haul of picks, which I think we need to bolster this team. So I'm, I'm, you know, I'm not actively rooting for us to lose, but I'm shrugging my shoulders a bit.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 28:33

I am with you, I'm with you and I, I, I feel like the teams earned that from the fan base after last week. Like that was our last little bit of energy to put into the season, wasn't it, after that Denver game. And look what they served up for us. So yeah, look, the eyes are. Admittedly gonna be on the draft position at this point because we're one of the worst teams in a football. So let's, yeah, let's see. I guess, and if we do leave that game, then, I dunno what the common opponent record is or whatever, but the giants will, will be what tied up with them in the league standings and with the, you know, with a split with them, wouldn't we? So. Yeah, he, he the hell knows at this point. Um, I, I guess one thing just to really quickly circle back on is when Jayden Daniels came out of the game, I didn't think he looked at her and I don't think he was hurt. So we don't need to go down a whole conversation about did Quincy the right or wrong thing there. I. I, I think that Quinn was so scared about what he'd done against Seattle, that he just took him out.'cause we weren't doing anything.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 29:30

What was the score? What was the score at that point? Do you remember?

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 29:34

well, it was third quarter and we were only down 17, so

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 29:37

Okay.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 29:38

he should go

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 29:38

Yeah. Yep.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 29:40

I, I kind of guess, I guess I'm not gonna lose my shit if he put him. Take, you know, pulling him in that

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 29:45

Fine by me. Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 29:46

I will say, the idea that he got massively injured, didn't, didn't happen. He just

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 29:50

No.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 29:51

he fell on his, he fell on his bad elbow and was a bit sore. Um, but he was,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 29:56

Precautionary.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 29:56

a towel on his head looking really pissed off. He wasn't, he wasn't hurt.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 30:01

Yeah, I was a bit pissed off as well. Um, actually, I just wanted, I do want to clarify. I was watching the game until the, the very end and I did watch the game until the very end. So occasionally I will duck out of the, uh, the WhatsApp groups. Um, also because I'm in a number of them that people start to take the piss in other ones as well. So, um, I was watching, even if I wasn't messaging, um, for clarity. Yeah, no, um, I, I, I don't, I I don't mind that he didn't put him back in. Um, he's doubtful for Sunday currently. Doubtful, but that's because, yeah, but that, I think that's just because it's Wednesday and we haven't yet. I mean, I think he'll be back out there on Friday and, and I think he'll play, um, is my prediction. Obviously this is a bit earlier for our preview show. Preview show segment for the pod, so we don't have as much injury news, but as of now, doubtful. Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 30:49

Okay. That's interesting. I mean, if they suddenly shut him down for the rest of the year, then it will blow up into all kinds of conversations when it, I, I don't think that's coming, but he needs to, he needs to be out there and If Sunday's, anything to go by, he needs to be playing. Unless everyone has lost complete focus and they just think it's gonna damage his confidence even more. But you've gotta play'em

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 31:11

Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think you do. I mean, I don't think it would, I don't know a lot, a lot of, um, discussion online on X around this obviously being a lost season and, and what you do. And I think for Daniel's confidence, it's important that he has some positive. Showings towards the end of the season. I do think that's a, that's'cause it's a long time since he has ultimately, um, and you don't want that to become, you know, habitual for him. Um, losing. Um, and I think that sort of stuff matters and a good end to the season. It's a long time between then and the off season and stuff, but I think it would make a, a difference. Um. And for the fan base potentially as well. So, yeah, I mean, look, I, I guess I'm flip flopping a bit on like do I want us to win or not? But that certainly want, Daniel wants to play and, and, and start to get into more of a rhythm. Um, Giant's quite good at home weirdly this year. They're, I say quite good. I mean, they, they, those are their two wins. They'll be the Chargers and the Eagles. Um, they'll be competitive, um, a pick them game really as a two and a half point favorite. But, um, I'll make my prediction now. I think we'll lose this one as well. I think we'll lose it 2014. Um, so, uh, another low scoring Giants game, um, but a loss for us on this one and sliding down those, those, um, draft or sliding up those draft boards, I guess.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 32:36

I think, we'll, I think we'll win the game if Daniel's plays. I, I don't even wanna predict the win after a while. I just saw, I just, I just think that's what will happen. We will probably get enough out of our receivers and we'll just find a way to win a poor football game. Um, it won't change the mood or the move the needle. I think that probably happens, but I dunno. I'll, I'll just throw a score out there. I'll say 20 to 17. I've done the same score last week, but I think it'll be relatively close with two bad teams. I could obviously see us losing the game though, as well.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 33:08

Is, is this, is this the least, I mean, is the least watched game of the NFL season? I guess like it probably isn't just because

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 33:16

Wow. You know I said that tickets were available for$40 on Sunday if you're in the New York area.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 33:21

Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 33:22

18 of your finest US dollars at the moment, including fees on tick

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 33:27

Wow.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 33:27

will get you in for, the Meadowlands for a, for an outside game, of course, in December. but really goes to show the state of the season for both, for both teams. Now, the giants you probably could have predicted

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 33:41

Yep.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 33:42

end up this way.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 33:43

I.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 33:43

Washington has gone from one of the most disappointing teams in football to one of the worst teams in football.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 33:49

Mm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 33:49

You can probably hear, I'm itching to have the, the conversation like, who's responsible for this, Josh, what's going

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 33:54

Well, I'm just gonna, just gonna quickly text our Manhattan friend Ben, uh, just to let him know that there's$18 tickets on Sunday. I'm not, I'm not looking forward to his response. Wow. We quite, quite funny, I think. Um, Leah, let's talk a bit more big picture then as we've got a bit time. So what's going on? Um, as ever, I think there's, it's nuanced and there's lots of factors to this. I don't even wanna point at any single factor, um, because I think that's reductionist, however. Um, some people like to play a game where you put percentages on things, you know, to what extent is Jaden Daniel's injuries been part of this season? To what extent has it been bad roster management? To what extent is it bad coaching, et cetera? Oh, I'm willing to do a bit of that actually. Um, and earlier this year I'd have put a lot more on, um, bad roster management. Daniels, but I'm actually putting coaching a lot higher now, um, and including the head coach in that. Um, we talked about the fans losing faith potentially after Daniels wasn't taken out earlier in the season, and, and you guys asked me, what, what do you think about getting the confidence back in Dan Quinn? Um. That I kind of glossed over a bit, but now it's a much bigger piece and there's more data to look at and there's more games that we've lost. And now I'm really questioning the ability of our head coach to put a competitive team on the field. And that's all that really matters. And ultimately, he's not able to do that. So I'm, I'm in a position where I'm not convinced that he is. Going to turn it round next season. And I think that if I'm in that position as a kind of pretty much optimistic guy that saw a lot of good stuff from him and likes the way he talks and all that stuff, then what is ownership thinking? Because I think that's the key thing here, right? Josh Harrison Co. Um, guys that are pretty pragmatic, quick to make decisions, quick to pivot in their previous organizations in different sports and that kind of thing. Are they gonna, are they willing to stick with, with someone like this? Or not. Um, and that's the big question. That's something we don't know obviously. So yeah, look, um, I'm, I'm far less confident in Dan Quinn than I ever have been at this point, obviously naturally, but to the extent that I wouldn't be surprised if something is not quite, no, let me rephrase that. I wouldn't be surprised if there's conversations happening behind closed doors about maybe pivoting. Now, I know that sounds a bit crazy, but I don't know. What do you think?

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 36:23

I guess there's a different conversation in what you want to happen, what you think might happen, what you think should happen. I think Quinn's incredibly safe, to be honest. I think because it was a whole new regime in, and Adam Peters was part of that regime, and Adam Peters was part of the hiring process. I, I, I don't see a way that Quinn is fired this off season. Um, I think Harris probably wouldn't wanna pay him with all the other. Expense he's got in his team. Um, I'm not sure about his previous organizations. I, I believe he, believe when they had a bad hockey team in Philadelphia, he kind of just let it run out. But maybe that was to do with the rebuild. I'm not sure. But either, either way, I think he's incredibly. Lucky in that sense that he has last season on his resume as in, as in Dan Quinn. Because for me it goes where do you start the evaluation? Uh, where we are now to, you know, where when he came in for me, I have to start on the defensive side of the ball. So he's a defensive head coach. He came from Dallas where he was a defensive coordinator and he brought his guys in from Dallas. He no doubt had conversations. With Peters about the way he wanted to draft to fit his scheme, et cetera. And all that's gone horribly wrong to me. But it has, because you've had to fire the guy you brought in, you've had to take back over calling. You've seen players that you picked in 2024 regressing. You've seen some not showing up at all. So to me, that's my biggest concern. So to me, that's where I'm like, do I, do I really rate him to, to turn this around because I feel like. As much as he's in charge of the whole culture within the locker room, et cetera, he needs to be held accountable more for the defensive side of the ball. So what would our record have been without Jaden Daniels and Cliff and stuff last year? So that's where my bigger concern is. So for me, do I think he should be. On the hot seat, I think the conversation should be had,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 38:18

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 38:18

they flame out here. I don't think he's in any danger. I think he would, I, I think there's an argument he has earned next season anyway, but I don't think he's in any danger,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 38:27

Okay.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 38:28

Um, I think he, I think he would be this time next year if they're not heading to the playoffs,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 38:33

Yep.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 38:34

I, I actually, I don't think he is, but I think he maybe should be.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 38:38

Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 38:38

what I've seen in my own eyes, this isn't just losing games by a point or so is it? You know, we lost a couple like that. We lost a couple in over time, but the rest have been in complete

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 38:48

Mm-hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 38:48

it's, it's easy to say that you are the most injured team in the league when you're playing Seattle and Detroit and stuff. Well, guess what? We got some people back and we played Miami and we played Minnesota, and we looked, you know, you know, we, we lost both those games and we lost one of them badly. So I feel like for him. This is a massive stretch in the season. Like the fan base may be fairly checked out at the moment and angry,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 39:13

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 39:15

If they turn up again like that, that's the only way I can see'em in danger. If the Giants put it on them and then the Eagles and Cowboys walk through them, then I think then I think it would've turned more than people acknowledge at that point.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 39:27

Mm

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 39:27

I already think there's some people in the fan base raising serious concerns after to what they're seeing with their eyes.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 39:32

mm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 39:33

look, they'll go back to injuries derailed the season early when we were competitive, we should have been four and two against the Bears, even with set injuries and. They'll, they'll see all these nuances and context and they'll talk about getting to the NFC championship, you know, game for the first time since 91, et cetera. So they, they'll put it all out there. I, he'll be

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 39:50

Mm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 39:50

back, I

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 39:51

He'll be back, but not many other people will be back. I mean, we, we can assume a lot of change, right? We can probably assume Cliff. Of not being here next year. I think I, I personally think that's a safe assumption. Um

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 40:03

Yeah, potentially. I, it's weird, isn't it, because Kingsbury will get a job somewhere, whether it be college, whether it be a different, um, OC in the N-F-L-N-F-L head coach may be stronger of a reach at this point with the season at Washington Haven, even if it's not,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 40:19

hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 40:19

completely, really down to his side of the border as much. But yeah, I could definitely see him leaving. Um, I wouldn't be. Shocked if he came back, but I could see him leaving. And I wonder how the relationship is like internally, um, with like the whole, because when things go this bad, you know, there's fractures, right? So is, you know, is Kingsview wanting to play this kind of way with Daniels and is Quinn panicking that's gonna get hurt again? And all this, you

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 40:47

Mm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 40:47

that's just like some conversation that might be out there because yeah, you just want, you don't lose eight games in a row. Even if you're injured by that amount of points and look this bad, you don't look that bad as you did on Sunday without saying, being a bit wrong

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 41:05

Hmm

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 41:05

the surface, in my opinion. So I'm sure there's changes coming.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 41:09

Agreed. Um, and I, I'm gonna assume another assumption that, um, that Dan Quinn is not as confident in taking over defensive coordinator responsibilities next season after these games. Uh. Uh, recently, because I think, you know, he, he threw that out there, didn't he? Randomly. But I mean, is that actually what he's, he's, he's actually wanted to do that with this squad. I mean, I think that's maybe just a throwaway comment. People took a bit too seriously, probably.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 41:36

Someone asked him if he was gonna call plays next year, and he is like, I'm not looking that far

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 41:40

Mm-hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 41:41

But yeah, I was getting rather annoyed. It was Chris Collingsworth was the main culprit. He was saying how much better it was now that Dan Quinn's taken over, which was really annoying. I was like, he's had six quarters, four of them were against Miami.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 41:52

So did your man on, on Sheen as well, by the way, the, uh, the Mr. Suta as well. He said it's so, so, and I think, you know, just, just two too small a sample size and just relax.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 42:02

exactly. Collinsworth was saying that a halftime against Denver and anyone that knows. What? Dang. This is my biggest annoyance, and I'm not an X's and nose guys compared to some people, but I know a little bit about what I'm talking about. The biggest anointing thing for me is in Dallas, Quinn and Witt were a zone, I'm sorry, a man team, 90% man, and they wanted to come to wash it and be man, but they didn't have the personnel. Then they drafted and they traded for players to try and become a man team. And they were so bad that they're now playing like 80% zoned to try and just keep it respectable. And now JJ McCarthy is walking down the field on them. So I don't want to hear this stuff about Quinn Turner around the defense. Yeah, there's a couple of better plays in the Miami games and corner blitzes and stuff we haven't seen from wt. But outside of that, this has not been, this was not some massive turnaround. So I'm pleased that that is now on his resume in a sense of they need. new defensive mind in the building. Um, hopefully it's someone like Schwartz if he becomes available, but otherwise they need to be going around staff in Seattle or wherever and finding the next defensive. Guru. And then it comes to the point is, well, what does Quinn do anyway? Then, then you become a bit of a Siri, don't you? Where you just like, you have a, you have an oc, you have like the other side of the ball's completely handled. You're not picking the players and, but yeah, that's another discussion. But I, I don't need my head coach just to be, um, it's, he's in charge of the culture, but I feel like he needs a hand really in a side of the ball. And now we're calling from to be completely stripped of that. So it's kind of, you're in this weird position in a way.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 43:46

Yeah, it is a weird one. I, I just, as you were saying that, I was thinking about coaches around the league and the kind of. Head coaches who are, who are culture setting head coaches, but also have the headset on, on the sideline. Right. And they're doing stuff and they're in, in, in integral to the philosophy offensively or defensively of the team. And that's what you want. You, you want both, you know, or, or you want just. That mastermind, you don't, and you sort the culture and you just win. It doesn't really matter. And you know, someone like Tomlin, who as you see every, every week on the sideline, has his headset on and is, is in, you know, actively involved in that stuff. And yeah, like you say, Quinn could become. A bit more of a figurehead and a bit more of a kind of man motivator type coach either way. Yeah. Like you say, it's an interesting discussion. I do think that should be the priority is going out and finding a defensive, uh, mastermind. Someone that knows the league, someone that's able to get the best out of these players and is able to put the right players in the right scheme, um, for next season. That's more important.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 44:43

terrible record against the Shanahan tree, isn't he

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 44:46

Mm-hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 44:46

even before he came here. And that tree is all around the NFL now,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 44:50

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 44:51

So it is like, you need somebody who's um, yeah, who can stop that And who has got a of, you know, you see some of these new younger head coaches in there, you see like McDonald in Seattle and stuff, don't you?

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 45:05

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 45:05

like. at what he is doing there. Yeah, he's got the talent, but you've had two years and two drafts

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 45:10

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 45:11

that out there. It's

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 45:12

Mm, yeah, you look at defenses like Houston and how they're able to, to get to where they are as well, um, with sort solid drafting and good coaching, and it has to go hand in hand. So we'll talk a lot about that in the off season about how we can actually make meaningful strides on the roster because the roster, we, we know the roster isn't good as well. Um, and, and, and lots of papering over cracks and lots of vets and stuff. So we will talk about that further on. But, um, for another day, perhaps in a bit more detail.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 45:40

Yeah, I mean, just a couple of players I guess are worth mentioning that have probably been some of the, the bigger disappointments this year. Um, I mean, Johnny Newton, outside of that tip in. Los Angeles, he really, you don't hear his name hardly called at all you on the, on the announcing. So he's not one that's even played a large percentage of the snaps, even with all the injuries. So that's gotta be a massive worry. He was picked so early in that second round. I think that was the, um, that was maybe one of the, the most important picks of that draft. It was a really high second round, wasn't it? So that's disappointing.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 46:16

23 snaps, uh, against, against the Vikings, uh, only two more than Preston Smith for Johnny Newton.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 46:24

that's, that's disgusting, isn't it

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 46:26

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 46:27

If you think about it like that, that just makes you think, oh my God, what have they done or what are they doing? Or is the coaching not putting him in the position to succeed? Like that's just a horrible, you think, look at the players that were picked behind him in the draft and oh my God,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 46:41

Uh, e, EE. Equally. I mean, now I've got, now I've got these up and it's a good way to kind of look at things at this point in the season. Equally, Bobby Wagner plays a hundred percent of snaps. Um. And if probably weren't gonna spend a hundred percent of snaps and we're losing 31 nothing, then at what point do you say, well, he is not the future, and that's really not really what we need at this point. I mean, and then on offense, so you've got vets playing a hundred percent and we're not doing very well, and you've got rookies and, and second and third year guys not playing a lot. Um, Jalen Lane only had six uh, snaps on Sunday. 12% of uh,

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 47:15

he's, uh, he's done, he doesn't seem to have had many opportunities in the punt game

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 47:19

no.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 47:19

he hasn't done anything since that, uh, Raiders game there has he, so all of these things are just adding up. Like I think Amos people have got the most excitement about in terms of, uh, an early pick that isn't Jaden Daniels. But, you know, we,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 47:31

Uh.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 47:32

we, we can talk so much about it, but for me, the picks like Newton are the ones that really hurt. And for everybody that's like, oh. Let's get the third or fourth pick and we can trade a

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 47:41

Mm-hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 47:41

well, you've gotta make those players count.'cause the last two times we traded the one, the famous one with Ron Rivera, when we, you know, left the larvae and others on the board and ended up with Dobson

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 47:52

Mm

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 47:53

and other, you know what I mean? So it's like, it's all good to trade back, but you've gotta get the players and if you leave marquee players, um, on the board, whether

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 48:03

mm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 48:03

A corner from Iowa or whether they're, whoever they might be, um, then it's not very good, is it? So for everyone that gets excited about trading back, I hope you've got the confidence that we get two or three really good players instead of one elite player. Because if you get two very average players and you leave an elite player there, then it doesn't, doesn't always look very good. So that's worth bearing in mind

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 48:25

Yeah, that's a very good point. I mean, uh, my, my frustration with Newton specifically is the number of successful defensive tackles that are taken most years. It seems to be much more of a hit position these days, and we, we seem to miss on it. Um, it's just really frustrating. Um, but I tell you wider point about the trading back scenario, I think it's just, just more darts to throw at the board, really. Um, and it is a bit of a crap shoot, like you say. Um.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 48:50

Yeah. And then in that first and second round though, you've got, uh, you've gotta be better. You have to be. We had years and years of Ron Rivera messing that up, and we've had a sample size now where we're probably in 24 when we had five picks in the top a hundred. And last year where we were a little bit concerned about how some of these, especially the 20, 24 players are progressing. So,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 49:12

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 49:12

and you know, maybe a lot of it is coaching you don't know. Do you say, are they not putting'em in the right scheme to succeed? Are they trying to make pass rush's run stuffers and vice

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 49:23

Mm,

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 49:23

But you should have a plan for it if you're drafting people that high.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 49:27

you should. Um, just looking back quickly to 2020, um, for, um, obviously as you mentioned, the Marky Sam still pick, um, in the second round, but Ben Sinner, another guy, second round pick 53rd overall, um. It's ultimately just not good enough. Is it at that, at that point when you should be getting a, not a blue chip player, but a, a immediate contributor and it's now now 20, you know, December, 2025 and is not contributing ultimately that much?

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 49:58

high pick for a tight end that is really

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 50:00

Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 50:00

So now everyone's saying, oh, now we get to see more of Ben Sinner because, uh, this has gone down. isn't a seventh round,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 50:08

No, no.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 50:08

rookie. This is a second round tight end. This's gonna be coming into his third season. So take of that what you will. mean, look, where did, um, you know, some of these other titans up performing really well now go, they're like second round's really high,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 50:22

Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 50:24

La Porta went in the second round. I think, um, you know, Dallas Scholar and Philly went in the second round. It's like, yeah, not all of them are gonna be as good as that,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 50:32

No.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 50:33

You should be getting way more production and the surely the notion is, oh, we're just not trying it.'cause we've got Zach s That's ridiculous

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 50:40

Mm-hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 50:41

you sh that's malpractice then.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 50:44

Exactly. Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 50:45

I know Alex's doing really played really well for us, but there's no way he wouldn't be getting more balls if they thought he could do

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 50:51

No,

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 50:51

in terms of Senate,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 50:52

no, no. Exactly. I, I, I I don't, I don't buy that at all. That, I mean, you know, James has mentioned, let's, let's see, that, those young, let's see, Benson and stuff, but at, at, at three and 10. Why haven't we seen it already? And the answer is that he's not there. Yeah, he is not there. Clearly he is not there.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 51:09

pick from

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 51:10

He's not a rookie. And also it's a position where you can, you can get in there, especially as a pass catch and tight end pretty early and, and make an impact, um, that hasn't been able to do that.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 51:18

if he comes in now and is a starting, uh, ball catching tight end and lights it up, it just need, looks even more stupid to them. Of course, we'd all love to

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 51:25

It just, it just switches it, doesn't it, from the guys that, that picked him to the coaches. I guess ultimately you start to go, well, obviously he was good and the coaches haven't seen that. Um, but I think it's more likely that he's, he's not, not as good as we'd hoped probably. Um, I will try and finish on a positive, on a draft pick because I think Josh Connolly Jr. Has, has turned into a really solid offensive lineman and he's paid every snap this season, which is really important and really good. Um, so our bookend tackles look good.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 51:49

Isn't he so young? He came out really

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 51:51

Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 51:52

yeah, that looks one, that's gonna be, you know, building for the future. And obviously people were saying, oh, he's getting, uh, he's getting beaten off the line a lot. Well, that was gonna happen, especially with our schedule this year. And the last second half of the season doesn't definitely seems to

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 52:05

Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 52:06

um, way better. Yeah, when you see our offensive line, and as I said last week, I think it's a strength for this team in terms of a a unit. I think there's real talent on there. Then that does get you even more concerned about coaching when you saw what the Vikings were

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 52:19

Mm-hmm. Exactly.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 52:20

let's see, let's see. Uh, let's see what, what happens here. But yeah, Connolly, and uh, hopefully when we get Amos back, you know, if you hit, if you hit one and two from last year, that changes the 2025 discussion massively into a really big positive, doesn't it? So,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 52:34

Yep.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 52:35

um, especially considering they're both late round picks.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 52:38

Yep.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 52:38

but yeah, I do wonder how many, I do wonder when we get into the. The later years of their Ricky deal is what that 2024 draft outside Jaden Daniels starts to look like though. So

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 52:48

Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 52:48

see him in the next couple of years, I guess.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 52:50

Yeah. Yeah. All the people that say, you know, you have to wait three or four years. Well, we're nearly, we're not, we're getting close to it. We can start to talk about Brandon Coleman and, and those guys in more detail and start to see Ashley. Are they, are they busts? Um, yeah. Okay. Look, um. We've gone, we've gone 45 or so. Um, as, as we said earlier, look, we're gonna, we're gonna do some more of these types of pods where we do a recap and a preview in one show, um, as we, if we get to tail end of the season. Lee, you said you're gonna do at least one more look back for one of the games near the end of the season, which is great. One of the Philly games maybe. Um, or, or, I, I think that's what you said. Isn't it? A Philly game?

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 53:25

Yeah, I, yeah, I'll do one,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 53:26

Good man.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 53:26

the, maybe I'll do one for the Philly home game. Um, and maybe I, maybe I'll do them anyway. We'll see. But one, one positive about being this bad is, I dunno about you,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 53:37

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 53:37

you know, then years when we were with Rivera and we were kind of in the conversation till late in December and then we'd fall apart. That was hard to like.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 53:46

Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 53:47

Keep interested in football'cause he was so gutted because we've accepted our fate so early. I've already started enjoying some other football. Um, so Monday night I actually watched the whole game, uh, chargers igs, which was, was quite,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 54:01

Oh, it was,

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 54:02

all the mistakes. And it was quite funny to see that at the end. So when we get into, um, late December and January, I'm just gonna have my football fan hat on to be honest. And I'm, I'm looking forward to a FC playoffs in particular because. It's gonna be very different playoffs this year as

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 54:18

I'm really, I'm really looking for, what is your football fan? Have you got an NFL logo hat? Is that or is that a rhetorical football fan hat?

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 54:25

it was like, it was like slightly taking the piss out of Greg He used to say, I'm a fan of

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 54:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No team.'cause he's from Martha's Vineyard or whatever.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 54:34

technically a Pat's fan that loves everyone else. But, um, no, I, I actually am looking forward to, to seeing. The teams, it sucks that we're not part of it, but seeing the teams at are, because I think the A SC in particular will be really different, right, with the way the chiefs are gone and stuff now. So it could be quite some interesting matchups there. And some teams like Denver and New England that

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 54:54

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 54:55

records that was expected to maybe do fairly well this year, but not as well as that. And then obviously, let's be honest, we have some, we have some hate, hate routing, don't we? In

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 55:05

We ha, we, we do.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 55:06

in the A and the NFC because we're gonna have. Philly, but you never know. You never know. Um, Philly Day'cause they've got us twice so they'll be fine. Um, um, and they've got the Raiders I think still left,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 55:18

Yeah.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 55:19

um, it would be nice to end Dallas season. But you know, all that talk's kind of just gone a little bit now, isn't it? Because it's just of how we're feeling after Sunday. So I'll be looking out to see what happens down the stretch for everyone. Uh, any, any teams, Josh, that you would say are an outsider or he

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 55:38

Hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 55:38

uh, who do you feel that's gonna do well into the postseason as we come down the stretch here? Like the playoffs is from finalized. It's taken shape a little bit.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 55:48

Yeah. Yeah, good question. Um, as you said about hate reading, I was gonna ask you about whether you had any teams you, you, you wanna see do well, but I'll answer your question first. Um. I think they're one game back in the A FC South at the moment. The Texans are a game back from the Jags. Um, I think the Texans are built for playoff football. If they get there, I think they can be really dangerous with their defense. So I'm, I'm, I'm kind of actively thinking that they will be, um, dangerous in the playoffs on the a FC side. Um, I, I did believe very strongly in the Bucks early in the season. I've kind of called off a bit on that, uh, uh, now, but I. I think the Seahawks, I don't think they're necessarily a, a surprise to say that, right. But I think in the NFC, the Seahawks are, uh, have a really good shot, um, that side of the ball, and either of those teams, I'd be relatively happy with doing well as well.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 56:39

Yeah, I agree. Seahawks, do people trust Donald? You know, on offense when it gets to the crunch time in January, I guess is a. Bigger question, but bigger. Their defense is so good and they've got so much talent. I'm with you. I think Seattle's gonna be a really tough out, I mean, all the NFC west teams could potentially, none of that would surprising if they go on a run. Obviously it looks like the Eagles will still get out as the division winners, but big problems there. So it'll be nice to see, hopefully. A Super Bowl or a championship weekend that doesn't include any, any of the two Super Bowl teams from last year

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 57:13

Very much so.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 57:14

teams get, get deep into it that haven't been around for ages. So we'll see how it, how it shapes out. I'm excited.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 57:21

One, one more. I'm

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 57:22

the,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 57:22

go on there. Sorry.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 57:23

sorry,

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 57:23

Yeah. One, one more I'm really excited about is this the, the a FC north situation. So the Steelers are only one game ahead of the Ravens at the moment, and either of those teams could be interesting in the playoffs for different reasons, and they play each other in, in, in the final week of the season. But the Steelers also have the, the, the lions and the browns before that. Um. Who knows where that's going. I mean, the Ravens look really weird, weird team this year. They look lost one week and they look great another week. Um, but yeah, look, we could have a, um, a Mike Tomlin, Aaron Rogers in the playoffs in the a ffc, which would be interesting.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 57:57

Yeah, for sure. And then the NFC, I mean, it's pretty bunch, isn't it? The bears went from the number one overall pick to the seventh, because there's gonna be divisions that have. You know, 9, 10, 11 win teams. Whereas there's divisions like the east that might only have one 10 win team or something. So it's weird. Um, yeah, it's gonna be interesting how it shakes out and we'll probably keep the pod going in in January. Right. For, for some around the league

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 58:19

Mm-hmm.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 58:20

that definitely gets me through the winter.'cause January and February, let's be honest, they're not the most fun times of year. So the NFL playoffs, I always, I always enjoy.

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 58:28

Definitely we, we, we, we will pivot a bit to that and hopefully get some more listeners as well from the various teams, uh, that are in the playoffs. Lucky them. Uh, obviously we are officially eliminated as of as of this week as well, just to make everyone aware. There are no scenarios in which the commanders can make the, uh, postseason this year, and I believe that was my, we have failed. Season if we don't make the playoffs in our preseason prediction show that we all agreed on in spite, in spite of injuries and stuff. So we'll leave it there then. Um, cue the Frank Sin er music. We are off to, to New York to play the Giants on Sunday. Um, a prediction of a loss from myself and James. A prediction, very soft prediction of a win from Lee 2017. Um, I'm not sure what I feel either way about that, but let's see how the game goes. And then Lee, you'll be, you'll be over for the Christmas period, so I'll be able to share a beer and watch, uh. Watch some games hopefully together, um, next week and onwards.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 59:19

Yes. Busy, uh, week to finish up at work, but I'll be back in the uk um, following weekend, the weekend before Christmas. So yeah, looking forward to it. Um, yeah, gonna enjoy some festivities here in the cold before hopefully, maybe it gets some, some white Christmas and some snow in England, but it doesn't

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 59:38

It's like 12 degrees today. It's like not happening here. Really mild.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 59:41

Okay then

squadcaster-5cde_1_12-10-2025_133648 59:42

Uh, anyway, thanks for coming on and uh, until next time, hail.

ledders_1_12-10-2025_073648 59:47

Merry Christmas hail.