12 - Seeded: Navigating Stigma and Finding Your Community with Bee and Ray.

What does it take to shake off a lifetime of shame around cannabis? In this deeply personal conversation, Ray, Bee, and Kyla open up about their earliest experiences with the plant and the stigma that kept them silent for years.

From growing up in countries where cannabis use meant death penalties or jail time, to navigating parenthood, professional reputations, and internalised fear, this episode goes deep into what it means to use the plant and still feel judged for it.

We talk about finding language, finding confidence, and eventually finding community. This episode is a reminder that education is powerful, but so is conversation. And when we tell the truth about our relationship with the plant, we help others feel less alone.

Whether you’re still whispering about your use, or proudly rolling joints at dinner parties, this one is for you.

Content Note:

This episode includes discussion of drug-related stigma, global drug policies, parenting, and cannabis use. Listener discretion advised.

In this episode, we cover:

• How growing up under the War on Drugs shaped our beliefs
• Cannabis stigma across cultures, from Singapore to Australia to the Middle East
• What it’s like to be a mother who uses cannabis
• Why conversations with kids matter
• How cannabis compares to alcohol and pharmaceuticals
• Why so many women are quietly quitting alcohol
• Where to find (or build) community as a cannabis user
• The missing social spaces for conscious consumption
• How to start talking about the plant, with friends, family, and yourself

Bee Mohamed has worked in health policy for over 10 years, both in the public and private sectors. Bee was the inaugural CEO of ScriptWise, a health promotion charity addressing prescription medication addiction and overdose in Australia. 

Bee is passionate about patient advocacy and working towards better drug policy reforms in Australia. She is currently an Ambassador for Harm Reduction Australia and Founder of Mata, an online platform sharing stories from the plant medicine industry.

You can find her storytelling at @mata_gathering

Ray Steele is a storyteller and connector, finding her path in this work through involvement in social responsibility, agroecology, regenerative and bioregional projects for over 10 years. She is a passionate living systems advocate.

After 15 years of severe migraines, a return to natural therapies offered her relief and heightened awareness of the interconnectedness between healing and living systems.

You can find her @ray.steele

Connect with Kyla de Clifford
Instagram: @cannacuriousaus
TikTok: @cannacuriousau
YouTube: @cannacurious

If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, share, and leave a review - it helps the podcast reach more curious minds just like you.

Disclaimer:
We are not doctors, and this is not medical advice. Everything shared here is based on our personal lived experiences and the stories of others. Always speak with a qualified healthcare professional before making any changes to your health or wellness routine.

Transcript

I'm Rae. I'm Bea. And this is Kyla and thank you for joining the conversation. Now today we are going to be talking about one of our favourite topics, navigating stigma and finding community. So let's start with the stigma.

I'd like to ask you, ladies both, what did you feel is stigma for you around the plant? So I grew up in an era where there was a huge, you know, the war on drugs and little delineation between what drug abuse and what, you know, medicinal.

plants looked like. So in terms of a professional context, I found there was just a lot of judgment and assumptions based around cannabis in particular. And I felt, especially in my younger days, I wasn't really equipped with the understanding or the vocabulary to speak about it in a way that was informed, confident.

Yeah, to just have curiosity to have conversations. So I kind of, that affected me in terms of not wanting to be open, not wanting to ask questions and not really being transparent, even with my family. Even well after I had understood the benefits of medicinal cannabis to treat my migraine pain and symptoms afterwards. How about you, Bea?

Well, I was born in Singapore and I think most of us know, you know, you still get the death penalty there for either the consumption or possession or pretty much anything to do with cannabis and any other drugs. In primary school, any sort of drug education was going to the prison system and, you know, seeing as a six or seven-year-old kid, people getting caned pretty much to death.

for consuming or possessing, I guess, cannabis. And so for me, when I moved to Australia, I was very lucky that a lot of my friends were, you know, taking cannabis. But I just always could not get over the fact that this literally could lead you to death. Yeah. You know, so it took a while, but I was very, very lucky.

From the very, very start of, you know, when I was 20, when I moved to Australia, a lot of my friends educated me, made me believe that I wasn't going to die if I smoked a joint. And, you know, so yeah, it's sort of similar to Ray. It's like, yeah, you know, it's sort of the political and the cultural climate that's around us and how that sort of formed our perceptions and the stigma around cannabis.

What about you, Kyla? I think for me, I mean, I grew up with my father was a GP, so he had read the article that said that cannabis causes schizophrenia. So that was heavily promoted through my house. And when there were issues with friends of mine and drugs, you know, usually the finger would get pointed at cannabis, but they were like, some of them were taking heroin. I dare say that may have been the issue.

Not so much the cannabis. And so as much as I heard dad speak like that, I also saw joints go around at parties. So it was, you know, always interesting for me. So I always had curiosity, like, what does that do? But stigma for me, I think, has still carried through even to now. Like I didn't really use the plant much until about 10 years ago, maybe even a little bit less than that. And for me, it's more.

being a parent, like having children and what people would think of me, you know, using the plant while I'm supposed to look after children. And, again, this is experience and curiosity that's taught me that, you know, I'm much better looking after my children than being on, you know, taking alcohol or benzos or whatever else it is. But, yeah, that stigma is very, very real, I think, for a lot of us, particularly for women. We seem to take on more of that than the men do.

And the generations that went before me were, you know, quite anti-cannabis. And the war on drugs, which honestly is infuriating when you have a look at what they did and the fact that the plant was taken away from us 120 odd years ago. It's not a long time in history, but they... damage that has been done in such a short amount of time. So, you know, prohibition was one thing, but then the propaganda, the propaganda that we get given from our governments didn't just happen in the 60s, it happens a lot. And we were given a lot of misinformation and disinformation. And, you know, that has obviously led to still a lot of stigma, a lot of misunderstanding.

I mean, the propaganda and the incarceration. I think that was the one thing growing up in Singapore. It's like, really? This is what people actually get locked up and get the death penalty for. It's pretty crazy and it still is that way in most Asian countries still, as we all know. Interestingly enough, I'm interrupting, but when I lived in the Middle East, it's also the same, right? For me, I didn't want to go near any...

any other plant, but it was given to me a lot. A lot of my, like, drivers that I'd had over the years would give it to me for Christmas. Like, here's some hash. I'd be like, Jesus, what are you doing? Get that away. I'm going to go, it'll be the death penalty or I'm not going to get my visa renewed. You know, it was awfully frightening. But they use it culturally and it's very, very different. So it depends, again, where you grew up. Yeah. How you see it, how you see the law, you know. Absolutely.

It's not as black and white as we first expect, I think. No, definitely not. I mean, for you as a mother, how did you feel you sort of got through the stigma? I mean, I know you're probably still working through that sometimes, but what was it that sort of made you go, you know what? Yeah, look, people judge me. I'm in a different space because I'm an advocate for the plant. So I cop a bit from people. And, you know, I've had to become very strong in myself and understand the reasons why I use the plant, why it's beneficial for me and why it's beneficial for my children. I'd really like them to see how healing takes place on, you know, multi-levels. But also, you know, as we've said, with a toolbox, it's not just the cannabis that I use. I also use other tools, meditation, nutrition, et cetera. But with my children, I actually ask them.

I said, listen, what do you guys think? Like, how do you feel when I'm using cannabis versus when I'm not using cannabis? And they're like, oh, my God, it's the best. You're so much more relaxed because, you know, I have pain. And when I'm in pain, I'm not fun to be around. That's for sure. It's not fun. And they think that I am also much more fun and present. And I am. I really can be like that. It can give me that, you know, that feeling back.

being very present, doing what it is that they'd like to do. I love that. I love that you had that honest conversation with your kids. I think that was the one thing when I moved to Australia meeting one of my really good friends' parents, they were like smoking a joint with us and I was like, what? Your parents do this with you? And I realised like that's how people, I guess, have a good relationship with whatever drugs like, you know, I'm...

awful like drugs being legalized and and drug education being done the right way but having that honest conversation I think within your family members and your friends it's like almost like the stepping stone to like addressing all the stigma that we've been sort of conditioned to think around drugs wow that's like such a when you were explaining that it made me realize that the tool of conversation is actually

a symptom of something, of bigger healing, not just with medication and, you know, treating symptoms. But I think the reason why we are all in this space thinking and experiencing stigma around the plant is that in different levels we have, you know, political, social, economic repercussions for having these conversations, even when they're had with awareness, with intention.

And I think it's brave, especially, Kyla, to break out of those cycles and have those conversations with your kids. And for me, alcohol is a cycle. I grew up watching it. All of the men, particularly in my family, they all drank too much and did some dreadful things over the years.

Cannabis, I never saw that involved in any of this. So it's education too. I think that educating the children, I always explain to them they know better than I do about the endocannabinoid system. But also the fact, I think going back to stigma, that people that use cannabis are stereotyped as being lazy, couch-locked losers.

Like, it always makes me laugh because most of the people who use cannabis I know don't keep still. Yeah. Right? They do things. And for me, it's how I get shit done. If I'm in pain, I'm going to be in bed wasting time. I can't stand that. I was going to say that mostly I remember, like, a lot of patients as very high-functioning individuals. And so for them, it's like, how do I fulfil my day-to-day duties and my best ability? And that's why cannabis helped.

So you're right, it's the stigma. It goes to the Reef of Madness days. It's like that's your stereotypical person and reggae music and all that sort of stuff. Racism, which is what I, racism, because the poor plant was just doing its own thing. And then when Harry Anslinger, oof, I don't like that man, when he decided him and his mates that they were going to have this war on drugs, then they actually pinned it on.

Mexicans. It's the Mexicans. They're doing it. I always wonder, you know, whenever we have a stereotype or a preconceived perception, it's always handy to use it as a mirror to address what it is that we're insecure about because ultimately, yeah, these kind of stereotypes don't make sense if you really dig into the history of them.

I think people get upset too because they don't understand. They know how to react in one way, but if you actually start to talk to them, and again, I think CBD is always the best place to start with a plant. Did you know CBD is an anti-inflammatory? Did you know it's non-intoxicating? And they're like, oh, really? Okay. A lot of people are aware of it now, a lot more even than a few years ago. Yeah.

But they have heard something. A lot of women I speak to tried the plant when they were 13 or 14, had a shitty experience and don't want to try it again. So they're like, yep, that's crappy, not for me. And there's so many ways that you can, you know, use the plant differently. You can use it topically. You don't have to ingest it. So, you know, that stereotype, that lazy stoner, gamer, we all know one.

We all know one, but that was just one, the one that they focused on, all the propaganda on, not the rest of the people in the room who were probably doing really well at school. A lot of people use it to focus. When you address stigma in your own life, what kind of community do you have around you to get information, to ground yourself?

What are your go-tos? Interestingly enough for me, it's probably a little bit different again because I, you know, I fell hard for the plant and wanted to know everything. So I started actually talking to women in the States who probably were a lot further ahead in that space than I was. There is, I think in Australia there's not enough social networks for us to like meet new people. I'd be quite happy to meet.

People that don't drink and prefer to use the plant, much prefer. I'm not sure that that's available. I'm, again, lucky I'm surrounded by women who understand the plant now, who have come to me on this journey. And so, yeah, I'm really lucky I've got loads and loads of women I can have that conversation with. That's nice. What about you, Bea? I think I'm the same. I'm just lucky to be in the space. I've been working in the space, so naturally it's like a lot of my friends,

are people who, you know, we all share, like, information about plants and the strains and you're sort of with very like-minded people as well. Put aside the cannabis plant, but it's sort of like I feel I'm lucky to have a community of very like-minded people with, you know, with the same values and beliefs. But I'm also mindful that...

if you're not from that sometimes it can be very isolating you know on the other side of it so and I agree with Kyla I think having been in this space now there's a lot of great content on socials but I always feel the one missing piece is and patients say this themselves it's like where can I go to meet you know other patients or other people there's not a lot of social sort of opportunities like

I think Australia is great at, like, sharing information now and also the aesthetics of how things look. But at the end of the day, people actually want community. Like, you know, especially after COVID, I think people are actually searching for that community and connection. Nice. Yeah, what about you, Rae? I think, obviously, to be in the room with both of you, I have to acknowledge that I do have a great...

connections with women in my life that don't hold any stigma, that can educate me, that can bounce things back and forth when I need to about the plant. And at the same time, my experience has been pretty solitary since understanding the benefits after nearly 20 years of conventional medicine to treat my migraines and not really getting anywhere.

Once I did find something that really worked for me, that was gentle, that was addressing the pain and the symptoms after migraines, I had this quiet confidence that this was something really good for me. And just like I'm not really telling people about my physiotherapy treatments, it works for me. I don't feel obliged to...

to really explain myself and what works for me and what doesn't. If anyone is on that journey, I love having that conversation because I wish that there were more spaces, like you both mentioned, to have those conversations. A women's hash club, that's what I'd love. A women's hash club where we could just hang out. Exactly. Hang out and have a chat. Stay tuned. We could do it. We could do it. But I think it is. It's important for women to be able to get together, women particularly.

So yeah, it's interesting. It's kind of like, depending on what your interaction is with the plant, that really also guides how much community engagement would really help flourish the practice of dealing with symptoms and trying new things. I still know women, some older than me, some younger than me, who still are too worried to say to people.

particularly on a social occasion where they prefer to use the plant than using alcohol. But also wanting to give up, I do get that question a lot. Look, I want to stop drinking, but I don't know what to do. And it does take an incredible amount of self-awareness and strength to...

you know, to not go by the cultural norm. It really is tough. It's not for me now. Now it's easy. But at the start when I first, it was probably 11 years ago, I stopped the drinking. It was tough. It's really tough. And I certainly wouldn't have been telling anyone that I was using the plant. No. Yes. I mean, the culture here is so different. I mean, the number of times I've been to Canada and you're like, wow, Australia is like so far behind in terms of just using it in public, like your belly.

Even going to a pub in Canada, I remember, like, people have one beer, that's it. But then, like, you know, you go to the backyard and, like, people are smoking a joint and it's just so normal. Whereas, yeah, I agree, I think, especially when I spent 15 years in Melbourne, it's like the culture of drinking in Australia is, it's almost hard to avoid in a social environment. Whereas I've realised moving to bar in the last few years, it's like because.

it's not really that culture there it's so much easier and then if anything it's like a lot of people who actually use weed to socialize you know yeah and that's like me i i find it hard as much as i'm you know quite i talk to people i still find it difficult in social situations i prefer at times you know to have a cultivar on board that makes me feel bubbly and happy and that i can actually reach out and speak to people and you know again i

I rarely will do it in front of people. I'll still go to the bathroom. I'll still find another way or use my drops because you can't see that. But, you know, for alcohol, which kills 5,000 people a year, which I think that we should say that in every conversation we have about alcohol, you know, people don't want to hear that. But I do notice such a big change in women wanting to stop drinking, which is good. It's so refreshing to see.

Mine's better for your health. Yeah. Oh, it is. So. And to try and break that cycle for me, break that cycle with my kids, you know, you've got to try and monkey see, monkey do. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want to get political but, again, it's like why is alcohol the legal drug and...

In my personal biased opinion, everything else that's good for us consciously, it's not. Not allowed, yeah. I know. And that's a very, very deep rabbit hole, people. I've been down it myself. We won't put you through that. No, but politically, it is political. At the end of the day, we don't have access to the plant because a group of men decided that it was eating into their profits. So how do we stop that? We demonise it. And it was very, very easy to do.

Still, I mean, still we, you know, there's still demonisation of many plants and many medicines and, you know, poo-poos and, God, the things I've seen over the years now that my mind's open up, it's fabulous. Open up your minds, people. Be curious. Sometimes something that I use to check myself is if it's an entrepreneurial product, then how do you discern whether it's meant for you or not meant for you?

just like medicinal cannabis is now entering or has entered the legal market and how tobacco, how alcohol, even food products, just because they're for sale should be something to broker awareness around consumption, what's driving the sales, what's driving the narrative around that product. Is it good for me?

Research. Do your own research. Try it. And canvas isn't for everybody. Gosh, that's for sure. It doesn't work for everybody. But you need to try different methods and different plants to find out what may work for you. Don't believe the hype. Nice. Never believe the hype. If you're also looking for community, make sure to hit us up on Instagram or...

Comment in the show notes. Yes, please. We'd like to see how you guys are getting out meeting each other in public. And what would you like to do to meet in public? It seems like 2025 I'd like to meet some people in public. I think we will. We should do a podcast with our listeners. Just so that you know, I meet random people all the time. People email me and I'm just like, sure, I'll go along and meet you.

Yes. And every single connection I've made has actually been – actually one of them wasn't, but that's a story for another time. That's a whole episode in itself. But most of them have been absolutely fabulous. And the things I've learned that, you know, you can't learn on your own sitting at home reading. It's the conversations. Yeah. Conversations. They're mind-blowing. Conversation and connections. That's sort of, you know, we've – That's why we're here. That's why we're here. Nice.

Well, there's another episode, ladies. It's a wrap from us at seeded, If you feel like these conversations might be helpful for a friend, please share this episode with them. Until next time, thank you, gorgeous ladies. Thanks. Bye.