15 (Bonus) - Desire: Sex and Cannabis with Lillie Brown.

Welcome to the first in a new series exploring sex, pleasure, and the plant - hosted by Kyla and somatic sexologist Lillie Brown. In this juicy and deeply honest conversation, we crack open a topic that’s often whispered about but rarely explored with compassion: desire.

This episode is for every woman who’s felt the weight of low libido, shame around cannabis use, or a disconnect between their mind and body especially in the chaos of motherhood, chronic illness, or perimenopause.

We explore:

• Why pain, stress, and hormone changes impact desire
• The difference between arousal and desire (and why it matters)
• Spontaneous vs. responsive desire—hint: both are valid!
• How shame and stigma still show up for women who use the plant
• Ways to get back in touch with your body and your pleasure
• The power of slowing down (seriously, slooooow down)
• Practical tips to dial up desire, including erotic rituals and daily pleasure practices
• The underrated brilliance of smutty novels and mindful nudity

Lillie also shares her framework of making eroticism a lifestyle and why your sex life isn’t just about what happens in the bedroom. From brushing your teeth to cleaning the socks off the floor, she reminds us: context is everything.

Whether you’re partnered or solo, in a drought or riding high, this episode is a permission slip to explore desire on your terms, in your body, with your tools - and maybe even a cheeky vape or velvet doona cover.

Lillie Brown

Lillie Brown is a certified somatic sexologist, facilitator, writer, and collage artist who’s obsessed with helping people experience more pleasure, confidence, and connection in their sex lives. Whether it was Catholic school or Friday nights spent watching Girls of the Playboy Mansion, she’s always been fascinated by why we crave sex, how we have it, and how to dial up the pleasure.

Her warm, playful, and judgement-free approach helps individuals, couples, and groups get intimately acquainted with their bodies, desires, and erotic potential. A hedonist at heart, Lillie is dedicated to guiding people through erotic transformation and sexual liberation with shame-free, pleasure-focused education.

Ready to explore your own desires, build your sexual confidence, or finally feel at home in your body?

Book a 1:1 session with Lillie and start your journey toward the sex life—and pleasure - you deserve. 

Find her @sexwithlillie

Free Download:

Make sense of your turn ons

https://www.lilliebrown.com/make-sense-of-your-turn-ons

Transcript

Well, hello, friends. Kyla here - and today’s episode is something special. We’re kicking off a brand new series on the Canna Curious podcast, where we finally dive into one of the juiciest, most requested topics: sex and cannabis.

I’m joined by the brilliant and hilarious Lily Brown, a somatic sexologist and lifelong student of pleasure. We’re talking low desire, responsive vs. spontaneous arousal, erotic bridges, smart novels (yes, really), and how the plant can be a powerful tool—not a crutch—for reconnecting with your body and your desire.

If you’ve ever felt disconnected from your desire or wondered why it sometimes vanishes completely you’re not alone. Whether it’s stress, chronic illness, perimenopause, or just the weight of the mental load, libido can be elusive. But what if we stopped seeing that as a problem to fix and instead got curious about how to reconnect?

We also name the shame. Because let’s be honest, there’s still so much stigma, especially for women using cannabis for health or pleasure. But that shame? It doesn’t belong to us.

So if your libido has left the building or if you’re ready to start cultivating desire on your own terms this one’s for you.

Lets spark up the conversation.

Well, hello and welcome, Lily, to the Canna Curious podcast where we're doing something a little bit special today. And moving forward, we're going to start doing some episodes on sex and cannabis. I cannot wait. You know, this is one of my favorite topics. We have been talking about this literally for, let's just say years, because I would say it's years that we're going to bring some things that we have learned to our audience because.

Sex and cannabis actually go together. For me personally, they go very well together and it's a whole new world and we really would love to open that up to every woman everywhere. Absolutely. There is such an untapped wellspring of pleasure when we bring the plant into our sexual experiences in a really intentional way, of course, and we're going to speak a little bit more about that today.

Also, I wanted to share some of my personal experiences with cannabis because I've been seeing a lot of commentary, particularly in the last couple of weeks with the TGA crackdowns. People are getting a bit nervous around speaking about cannabis openly. And I think speaking from my personal experience, in the last conversation that we had, I was talking about how I use cannabis for chronic pain and endometriosis management. And it's also been an important tool to help me reconnect with my desire.

during periods where I have been experiencing low desire, either through stress or chronic illness or whatever else is going on. It's been a really incredible tool to help me slow down and feel more. What's going on for you? Yeah, look, I think you're right. And, you know, personally for me, you know, obviously a different stage of life, but going through perimenopause now and the changes and the change in the hormones and also having adenomyosis.

Pain can be a barrier to sex for me and, you know, also tapping into myself. So I've always found the plant helpful for me, even when I was quite young and was out there, you know, just grabbing a baggie from wherever. I did notice that that was one of the big things. I couldn't believe how much it was like quite an overwhelming desire, like if I am using the plant. And, you know, whilst I know it's not for everybody, it certainly is for me.

I'm right there with you, babe. I love it. I love it so much. a gift I think a really sacred gift and it is I think framing it in that way helps us have a more regulated relationship with it and to also not feel so much shame and stigma because there has been time like you know anybody who knows me knows that I am an open book okay there is not much that's off the table that I won't talk about we have had some conversations haven't we ever we've covered a lot of ground and

I think there's been what I've noticed on social media in particular in the last two months is that there has been a bit more shame and stigma coming back into the picture with cannabis use, particularly women who are using it for health reasons. To be so clear, I don't fuck with that. You know, shaming people for using a plant and plant medicine that is working really effectively for them, that has minimal side effects compared to other pharmaceutical interventions, that is not it. And the shame that we feel around cannabis use, particularly as women, from my perspective, it isn't ours to carry.

No, it's definitely not ours to carry. And I think that's the hardest thing. We're looking at generations of shame and stigma that we're carrying on our shoulders and that we're trying to shake it off. And, you know, it does run deep. And the more conversations, that's what I keep saying, the more we have. If the regulators come out and make a song and dance and everyone goes back underground, we're not beating them. They're actually winning. And by keeping the conversations open.

then we learn more and we can bring more to the table then too to say, well, this person, this group of people needs it for this reason. This is why we're doing it that way. You know, it's hard. The shame can be hard and the stigma. Whilst I don't have it on a daily basis, sometimes it does rear its head. When was the last time it reared its head for you? I think for me it's probably more if I have to do it in a public setting.

It's that shame. It's like, you know, I don't want to disrupt anyone's, you know, perhaps if I had to have a vape, for example, then it's the smoking shame. It's the cannabis shame. It's the fact that I'm a mother with kids, you know, that has hit me before. And, you know, I try not to sit in that place because it's not healthy for me or for anyone, but it does happen. What about for you?

I think that it often rears its head in regard to professionalism, right? And, you know, I'm self-employed. I have always wanted to be self-employed. I hope to be self-employed until the end of my working life. So I have, through that process, I've divested a lot from professionalism and what that traditionally means in largely corporate settings, because that doesn't work with who I am as a person. I need to do far too much suppression of my personality and my mannerisms for that. And again, I don't fuck with that. I'm not interested in that. And I think where it trips me up, the shame is around...

When I'm feeling like or in a professional space, either at an event or networking or something like that, or even speaking to colleagues about my cannabis use, I always feel a bit edgy, like, oh, God.I hope they don't think I'm a degenerate or something like that. When it's like, this is actually a really useful tool for me that I am using largely in a medical context. Why am I feeling so much shame around it? And I still have that creep in that like, oh, well, if you smoke weed, oh, if you use cannabis, then you're not professional. And it's like, actually, cannabis makes me way better at my job.

I don't smoke during the day. Sometimes I use it for creative things like writing or making art. If I've got a full day ahead of me and I really want to dive into that like deep space, but as a general day to day, I'm not just blazed through my work day. A lot of the time. I think you're right. When you just said that, like I always, I do dive into that. I don't use it. I don't take it during the day, but sometimes I need to take it during the day.

Yeah. And that's when the shame comes in because it's, it is, it's that programmed into us that, oh my gosh, the daytime is for the working, but you can't do the working when you have the chronic pain in the back and the this and, you know, and the, and the ADHD and all of it. Yeah. 100%. And I think. A big part of it is still that cannabis is so demonized. It's seen as less than. It's still seen as almost like a party drug, which is so obscene to me because let me tell you, every time I have ever consumed cannabis, you best believe I'm not like dancing until the sun comes up. I'm like laying down. I'm in a carb coma from all of the hot chips I've just eaten. I'm blissing out. Yep. Relax time, right?

So desire is something that we have spoken about many times before and we thought it was a good place to start today to, you know, talk about the journey with sex and it really starts with desire.You know, I think at different times in life that can change, you know, obviously from your early 20s, then you start having children. Some people start having children. That affects it. Work, stress, you know, there's so many things. And so we thought we might chat about that today. Desire. Such a juicy topic. And so misunderstood still. Okay. Interesting. Tell me how. Yes, let's talk about that.

Many of us have a tendency to conflate arousal with desire, but they're two completely separate processes. So let's start with what desire actually is. At its core, desire is a strong wanting or interest in sex, right? Desire is a motivational state. Within our cultural lexicon, we have the term sex drive. We don't actually have a sex drive.

Wash. We have a drive to eat, sleep. Yes. Hydrate. We do not have a drive to fuck. Really? What do you mean? Some days it feels like that. I know. It feels like that. When I'm in the middle of my cycle, I'm pretty sure that it does. Oh, 100%. I'm like a feral beast at that golden time during my cycle. I see a fluoro vest and I'm like, oh, there's a man. Oh, my God.

So that's interesting. So there is a difference between. Okay. Sex is something that we need to want. We need to desire it. We don't have this fundamental urge for it. Right. And so.

We can think of desire as lust, as horniness, feeling in the mood, wanting to get it on, right? At its core, it is this motivational state. It's a wanting. And in order for you to want something, it has to be good.

So we're going to talk a little bit more about low desire soon. But one thing that I want to preface, so many women come to see me for low desire or perceived low desire. Yeah, okay. And they're saying, what's wrong with me? What supplements can I take? Do aphrodisiacs work? I'm like, babes, you're going to have to eat at least 75 oysters to be able to get a tiny effect. That is not it. And you'll be sleeping those off. When I think about sexy, I'm not like slimy booger. Not a slimy, oh, that's sexy. Let's have some oysters.

Yuck. And so if you're experiencing low desire as you're listening to this and thinking, oh, yeah, that's me, like I'm really struggling to feel turned on. Honestly, I could not have sex again for five years and be totally fine with it. When women come to me with this, I often ask them, well, almost every time I ask them, is the sex you're having worth wanting? Okay, that's a good question to ask ourselves. Because again.

If we're taking it back to this definition of desire being a wanting and interest in sex, if the quality of the sex that you're having is not what you actually want to experience, then of course you're not going to want it. Kyla, if I served you a dry bowl of Weet-Bix for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day, you would not be thinking come mealtime. Hell, fuck yeah, Lily. Can't wait to have Weet-Bix. Thanks for the Weet-Bix, Lily. Can't wait.

I'd be like, can I have some honey on this? Can I at least have some milk? What is going on? I go for the honey first, butter and honey, but that's okay. Either way, you know. Priorities, babe. And so if we're not having the sex that we want, of course, we're not going to want it and we're not going to desire it. We're probably going to want to lay down and read our book or binge watch that series on Netflix. And so we actually need to have a think about the quality of the sex that we're having because that is going to positively influence desire. Now, you mentioned earlier about all the things that can influence desire. And it might sound a little bit confronting, but literally.

every single thing in our lives influences our desire right whether there's dishes in the sink how tired we are what stage of our menstrual cycle we're in how we slept last night what we ate how hydrated we are how the mental load is being handled in our relationship yeah that's a big one yeah so many different things medications that you're on

Yes, true. Very true. All these things I hadn't even thought of. It's a big list, isn't it? My gosh. It is a big list. So stop beating yourselves up. Exactly. Don't beat yourself up. And so often when people come to me for low desire, there's so much shame around the low desire. Like I don't feel like myself. I don't feel like I'm sexually expressive. I feel like I'm disappointing my partner. I feel like a bad wife, a bad husband, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. And so that shame is not helpful. So one of the first things that I tend to do with clients who are coming with me, coming to see me for low desire, is we actually bust out a bit of paper, write desire in the middle. And then we write down all of the things that are going on in their life that are impacting their desire.

And so we do this on an A4 piece of paper. Really, I should upsize it to A3 at least because there's always so many things on that list, right? So funny, when you said it, I would have just written two things down. But yeah, you're right. When you start like, oh my God, that's me. Oh my God, that's me too. Yeah. And it's such a useful process because when you look at it and unpack it piece by piece like that, you're like, oh.

It makes so much sense why I'm not turned on or thinking about sex in any type of constructive way because I'm actually in survival mode right now or I've been experiencing a heap of chronic pain for the last few months or my kids have been absolutely mental for the last few months and that has taken a big toll on the relational dynamic with their parent, right?

There's all these things that influence our desire, both internal and external. And these factors that influence our desire interact with one another in really complex ways. So it's essential to recognize that changes in your desire across your lifetime are actually a normal part of the human experience. Experiencing those ebbs and flows in desire is actually really normal and really human.

Yeah, and I think that that's something I know even for myself, I put a lot of pressure on myself if I'm not, like I perform at work, you perform here, so then therefore I should be able to just switch that on. But it is nice to have some downtime too sometimes to work it out what it is you actually do want. For sure. And I mean, I'm a sexologist for fuck's sake and I'm not immune to that. You know, there'll be times where I'm like, my libido has left the building. Where is she? And I don't feel like myself. You know, I feel most me and most fully expressed when I am deeply connected to my desire and my sexuality. So when I go through periods where.

there's a bit of disconnection there because of stress or chronic illness or whatever is influencing it at that time. I'm like, oh, my God, who am I? Cue identity crisis. Like what is happening? Oh, yes. Oh, my God. Thank God. I'm so glad we're talking about this because I'm having a little patch of identity crisis right now. It is so bizarre because you're like, what? Who is this? Where did my other one go? The other me. Yeah. I'm back. Honestly. And bring P and Didi into it. It's like,

For two or three weeks in my cycle, I'm like a husk. And then there's two weeks where it's like their main character energy is back. I'm feeling myself. I'm loving it. Even my walk to the car, I'm like, yeah, look at me go. This is it. A hundred percent. Like you're so much more attuned to like, even just things like feeling your boobs bounce as you walk and like feeling the fabric of your clothes against your skin. It's like, oh, I love it. It is. It's so, it is. It's energetic. And I, and you know, there's so much else that comes with that. Big time. Yeah, definitely. When we talk about desire and particularly low desire.

It's not an on-off switch. It would be fucking awesome if our desire had a simple little on-off switch that we could toggle on and off at will. But we don't, right? Desire is this really complex interplay of all these factors, including sexual arousal, the emotional connection we feel to our partner, our stress levels, the relationship dynamics, our personal experiences. And so desire is not something that just bubbles up out of nowhere.

We need to actually cultivate it. And one of the things that I also speak about a lot in my practice, and we'll come to this more in a second, but it's actually normal to not feel turned on. We have this really problematic pattern in our society where we pathologize fucking everything, like personality traits. And I'm not immune to that, you know. I do it.

As soon as I need to find an excuse, I'm like, okay, run through the list. It's got to be one of these things. What is it? What is it? But when we think about desire, pathologizing it is actually incredibly unhelpful. And so often when clients come to see me for low desire, they want recommendations for certain sex positions or a sex toy that's going to give them mind-blowing pleasure or some kind of tantric sex tip that's going to make sex feel like it did when they first got together. If you don't want to do the sex, then how do you get to the position? Exactly. And so we need to actually be taking a far more holistic look at things rather than just going, all right, I'm going to jump.

on a website like Love Honey or Vush and buy myself a new vibe and that's going to fix my desired shoes. That's not the case, right? We think that if we add more accelerators, more things that turn us on, that our desire is going to start simmering. And that's the reality is there is no quick fix for low sexual desire. And so it's actually incredibly normal.

to feel less arousal and less desire if your kids have been hanging off you all day and you're feeling super touched out. If you're sick, living with chronic pain, if you're feeling overstimulated, all of my neurodivergent gals will get that one. You know, there's nothing worse than feeling super overstimulated at the end of the day and then having your partner try to initiate sex by groping your tit while you do the dishes. Oh, I know. It's like stop touching me now. Are you looking for an uppercut at this time? No, no. It's like do the dishes instead so I can get to bed, you man.

maniac they're like they think they're so cute oh yeah look at this go yep you're gonna get a punch for that and there'll be nothing for a week yeah exactly consequences for your actions thank you keep your hands to yourself oh golly And so this is not a dysfunction, right? It's actually really human if we're experiencing low desire as a result of these contexts. And so you're not going to want to have sex and really surrender to pleasure and to the unknown of that experience if all these things are slamming the foot on your brake. All right. So what are we going to do if we have low desire? What do we do?

So I think one of the most useful starting points, if you're listening to this and identifying with, yeah, my libido has left the building, I've got low desire. One of the most useful starting points is to understand the dual control model. So this is a concept that was...

came out of the Kinsey Research Institute in the 90s and then was further developed by iconic sex researcher Emily Nagoski. And the dual control model essentially explains sexual desire as having two components, the sexual excitation system or the sexual inhibition system. Very hot and horny terms there. And so...

Sexual excitation is what turns us on. Sexual inhibition is what turns us off. And so sexual excitation can be triggered by external factors like arousal and attraction and those sorts of things, feeling pleasure, feeling connected to your partner, while sexual inhibition, the things that turn you off, are more influenced by external stresses, emotional states, and relationship dynamics. Yeah, okay. So for us to experience both sexual...

arousal and sexual desire, that's dependent on a fine balance between those two systems, right? The excitation and the inhibition. So simple way of thinking about this is your sexual excitation system is your accelerators. These are the things that really turn you on. Whereas your sexual inhibition system is your brakes. So these are things that turn you off immediately.

And so beginning to think about what some of your brakes and accelerators are is a really useful starting point here. And so when we're thinking about our accelerators, those might be things like being freshly showered, having just brushed our teeth, no dishes in the sink, a warm temperature in the room. When we think about our brakes, it might be things like, oh, bad breath, sweaty armpits.

You know, all these things that are going to hit the brakes in our desire. It might be having people at home in the house when you want to have sex. That might be a break for you. Not knowing if your kids are about to barge into your bedroom and be like, can I have a snack, please? No, I'm trying to get it on. Exit the room. Thank you. So our brain is our biggest erogenous zone. It's our biggest sexual organ. And it is constantly scanning our environment for these cues to understand, okay, is this an arousing environment or is it not appropriate at the moment? Yeah. Okay. When we're thinking about this, right, I think an accelerator.

is something that puts us in the mood for sex. It's stoking the fire of our desire. So it might be the thought of your partner in a sexy outfit or actually seeing them in a sexy outfit. It could be a really delicious scent. It could be receiving a sext from your lover or a certain type of touch. And your accelerators are the gas pedal for your arousal. So when you're wanting to feel more arousal,

Add some more of the accelerators. Make sure you're setting up a context for your desire to come through. But if you've got low desire, simply adding more pressure to your accelerators isn't going to be the miracle fix that you think it is. What's more effective when we're dealing with low desire is removing pressure from the brakes.

So we need to have a really good look at what your breaks are, what's getting in the way of your desire in order for us to be able to go, okay, how can we create a context that's removing some of those breaks? So for me personally, I have zero interest in having sex unless my teeth are freshly brushed. mouthwash, the works. Like that is a huge thing for me. I've got to feel fresh. I've got to be moisturized, right? If I can feel dry skin. Yeah, me too. Oh my gosh, it's not happening. And so, all right, once you have this information and you've done a bit of reflection and introspection on it, great. Then we can begin to actively create a context for our desire to come through.

Cue all partners with moisturising bottles after the shower tonight. I can already hear it when they've listened to this. They'll be like, here's the moisturiser. 100%. Adoring partners, please take it a step further and sensually apply the moisturizer or body oil with no agenda, okay? No agenda. This is not one of those, let me give you a massage. Oh, that old chestnut. And then after five minutes of lackluster background, they're like spreading your teeth. There's an extra leg poking somewhere. It's like, that's not what we discussed, buddy. This is an interesting massage. Okay.

And so when we have this idea, this concept of the accelerators and the brakes, what makes that more useful is understanding that there's actually two types of desire, two ways that we experience desire, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. And this is spontaneous desire and responsive desire. Okay. Now, spontaneous desire is what we see in movies, right? It's like hooking your partner up onto the kitchen bench, swiping everything off until it smashes onto the floor, a couple of thrusts, and somehow, 20 seconds later, there's an immaculately timed simultaneous orgasm. Simultaneous, I know, right? It's like, wow, so realistic. That's so every week. Yeah, totally. 100%. And so spontaneous desire.

emerges in anticipation of sexual pleasure, right? So it's that tingling in your loins that seemingly emerges out of nowhere or suddenly you've been typing an email and then you're like, oh, hey, sex would be a good idea right now. So that's one way of experiencing desire. It's the most common way that we see desire depicted in film, TV, pop culture, pornography. The other way that we experience desire is called responsive desire.

Responsive desire emerges in response to sexual pleasure, right? So we won't actually start desiring sex or a sexual experience until we're experiencing pleasure of some kind. So that might be a partner giving us an actual back rub or some head tickles. It could be feeling really connected and sharing some nice loving touch with your partner. And then suddenly you're like, oh yeah, sex is a good idea. And so...

When we are wanting to think about responsive desire, there's a really helpful analogy that I learned from sex therapist, Dr. Christine Hyde. And she says, imagine that a good friend of yours is having a party and she invites you to the party. You accept the invitation because she's a good friend and you like a party. But the closer you get to the night of the party, the more you're like.

So much effort. I've got to pick an outfit. I've got to take something to eat. I've got to do my makeup. There's going to be traffic. This is such a hassle. But you go because you said you would. She's your friend. And then when you get to the party, you actually end up having a really fucking great time. And that is responsive desire. Okay. And I think.

Like this desire is also, it can be inspired by physical touch, sexting, listening to erotica, reading erotica, watching your partner get undressed, seeing a hot tradie and some high beers. I know that ticks all your boxes, babe. That's me at the moment. Yeah, okay. And so this.

We need to think about how we can create a context for responsive desire to come through if that's the camp that we sit in. And it's also useful to know that our desire type is not fixed, right? It's not like, yes, I have spontaneous desire type and that's going to be it for my whole life. Or yes, I'm responsive and that's going to be it. Desire is actually on a spectrum with responsive and spontaneous at either end. And we kind of move along that spectrum at different points in our life based on what we've got going on.

And so when we have that understanding of these two types of desire and that knowing in a knowing to be able to check in with ourself and have that awareness of like, okay, what is my desire type feeling like at the moment? Then we're able to actively create a context where we can feel sex and where we can feel sex, where we can feel sexual desire and experience pleasure. Yes. And so for responsive.

types, if you fall into that camp, I think it's worth considering that even if you aren't in the mood for sex or intimacy per se, you might be surprised at how your desire can increase when you find small ways to engage with your partner sexually without necessarily committing to having sex. I know you wanted to touch on what can we actually do to dialogue. No, no, look at me. I'm like, go quick. That's what we all want. Quick. Tell me. What's the answer, Lily? I want the answer. I've got so many answers for you, but I'm just going to keep edging you for a minute longer, okay? You're the one that gave me a microphone. I did. I'm like, I want to talk about desire as a microphone, but I want the answers too.

they'll come good things come to those who wait i'm not patient that helps i know the minute someone's like wait telling me to wait for information that i want i'm like no no now i'm like leaning in come on all right okay all right i'm waiting all right so this is related to what we can do about low desire and how we can stoke our desire but it's a little bit of a side quest you know i love a side quest we love a side quest all right let's go

So the ethos that really underpins my work is this idea of making eroticism a lifestyle, making sex a lifestyle. I love it. And so for people who aren't feral little sex freaks like us, when I've shared that idea, people are a bit like. Whoa. What do you mean? Does this mean my life is going to look like, you know, a headset or something? Quick segue, quick segue. When Lily said this last time, Kyla rushed out to buy herself some erotic novels. Then she left them in her bedroom where her child picked them up and started reading them. Oh, curious minds. You've fostered a lifelong love of reading there, Kyla. Luckily she's in the right age group, but she was like, oh, mother.

Yuck, yuck. Why are you reading this? Sorry, back to the side mission. I just remembered last time we were there, I was like, yes, erotic novels, people. Bring it into your life. All right, we can touch upon that many other times. All right. I think we should do a whole episode on erotica, by the way. I do too. You've got me right into this because I really didn't think, you know, think of that.

So this idea of making eroticism a lifestyle is not about having your life look like this montage of like playboy-esque or porn-esque scenes. If that's what you want it to look like, pop off. You've got my full support. Do what you want. Absolutely. I love it. I want to hear about it. DM me. But what this actually means.

And what eroticism means to me is this vibrancy, this lust for life. And so making eroticism a lifestyle for me is all about feeling more pleasure, being more present and being more connected to myself, my inner world, my body and all of the people and the country around me. That's the priority. And so when we start thinking about it in that way, what are the conditions for me?

to live this really expressive, vibrant, rich, turned on life. So going for walks by the water with my dog in the morning. be naked as much as possible. Be naked with my friends. Honestly, platonic nudity is a train. I love it. Everyone thinks I'm crazy, but like that used to be my thing when the kids would go to their dads. I would be like Thursday night, I'd be naked till Saturday. I love it. Oh, it's the best. It's the best. My best friends and I have baths together numerous times a week. And every time I tell my mom, she's like, oh, oh God. Oh, you're getting too old for that. I don't know how you could be naked together.

It's good. It's good accepting of different bodies too. I think it's great. Yeah, absolutely. And it also horizontalises our experiences of bodies and we're able to see nudity and bodies as something that's neutral rather than inherently sexual. Not sexual. Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. Yeah, that's fantastic. And also gives you the confidence back too.

For sure. For sure. Personally, just another little side quest. I do not know how people sleep with clothes on. Okay. Anybody who sleeps with clothes on, please slide into my DMs and tell me how you manage it. If you said that to me. In summer, I would say fine. But right now, babe, let me tell you, I am ragged up at night, including my slippers in bed. It is so cold and I cannot. There's no way. Oof, no need sleeping in winter. I just take all the hot things to bed. So I'll take my wheat bag, my hot water bottle, my dog, and then I'll just be.

absolute still sleeping naked in the middle of winter case in point like it just gets tangled I can't sleep and even if I do go to sleep clothed I wake up naked like I will never forget the mortification I felt when I had a sleepover at a new friend's house in year seven or year eight middle of winter and where I lived at the time was like an

icy hellhole. It was cold as fuck. I had no right being naked. I've gone to sleep in full flannelette pajamas, fluffy bed socks, the works. I'm sharing a bed with aforementioned new friend. And then I peel my eyes open the next morning and I'm like, feels a bit breezy in here. Oh my God. And I'm just absolutely stark naked next to this friend. And I'm like, oh my God.

Armageddon's done it again. Oh, my gosh. That would be. And hello, we know each other now. Yeah, we're a lot closer. So I think when it comes to thinking about desire. and ways to cultivate desire in your life embracing that ethos of making eroticism a lifestyle will take you a long way and it's like when you're eating it's like how can you eat really mindfully and be really present with the flavor the texture then the sensation that's in your mouth that is living an erotic life that is making eroticism a lifestyle right where we're actively orienting to pleasure

and all of the sensory delights we can experience moment to moment. And being in the moment, absolutely, you know, being in the moment. And it's so important and it's something that in this fast-paced society we have trouble with. Absolutely. And that has a really big flow-on effect to how we do sex. Almost all of us are having sex way too fucking fast. So if you take one thing away from this conversation today, it is please, for the love of God, I am begging you, slow the fuck down.

down and once you've slowed down slow down again by 50 and just notice what happens it might be a bit uncomfortable at first because we're all very comfortable with moving through the world at an absolutely breakneck speed at a pace that's really not sustainable for us nor is it conducive to pleasure because when we're operating in this state and many of us have dysregulated nervous systems we're often in an activated fight or flight state and when we're in that state our stress hormones are

going crazy our body is being flooded with cortisol adrenaline and other stress hormones and when that's happening our arousal and desire chemicals so all those neurotransmitters and feel-good hormones that get released they are effectively blocked because evolutionarily if we think about it if we are in a fight-or-flight state and we're being chased down

for our life by an animal, we have no business looking at that tree and going, oh yeah, that's a good tree there for a quickie later. I'll come back to this spot. Oh yeah, totally. Like that's not how it works. So when we're experiencing, when we're essentially being flooded by stress hormones and feeling incredibly stressed and overwhelmed, our arousal and desire.

basically leaves the building. And it's incredibly difficult for us to feel pleasure, to feel and build arousal in our bodies when those stress hormones are taking center stage. So this idea of slowing down and making eroticism a lifestyle is going to have really incredible benefits, not only to your sex life, but across all of your life. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Joy and presence. Joy and presence.

And it is amazing what that does do for our minds in many, many ways. Yeah. What helps you get present? Well. To be fair, it's the plant because CBD for me personally helps me with that, you know, anxiety of, again, going through perimenopause at a stage in life where things are really, really busy. We weren't supposed to be at my age. We weren't supposed to be doing this. I think, you know, back in the day, this was the time where we would be looking after the grandchildren.

you know, all of our knowledge would be passed down, whereas now we're racing and racing, racing. So the CBD really helps me to stop and slow down and, you know, to be able to be present. And I also meditate because for me, I've learned that that's such a great tool for everything, both short and long term. But I also will use a THC product for...

uh if if i'm having pain or if i really am having trouble dropping into my body which can be often it can be absolutely and before i share the things that help me get present because i think it's useful for us to share what works for us so people who are listening to this can get some tangible examples of things that they could try i think

What you just said there about sometimes needing to use that THC product because you're having difficulty getting to your body and that difficulty can be quite frequent. I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that and normalize that because I think that there's a lot of shame around not being able to be present in your body and particularly relying on a resource like the plant to help you come down into your body. I know for me.

The plant is incredible to help me soften and actually become present in my body. And there's no shame in that. Connect. Like I have no problem then connecting. And once that pain has gone and the stress has gone, then the connection is very, very strong. And, you know, I think that that is important. Whilst I don't use it as a crutch, I certainly use it as a tool. Definitely.

Definitely. And I think that framing of it, not as a crutch, but as a tool is really important. And it's okay for you to use your tools and resources regularly. Right. Yes. Yes. And so. Particularly when there's additional complexities in physical and mental health that we're navigating, like us experiencing chronic illness, also neurodivergence, there's additional layers of how these things interact with the nervous system. So needing a bit of a helping hand on a regular basis, there's no shame in that whatsoever. Yeah, absolutely. So I want to talk more about these practical tips to dial up your desire.

And I know these have been eagerly awaited for you. So as you said earlier, right, desire is not a light switch that we can turn on and off at will. Wouldn't it be nice? Desire requires intentional nurturing, particularly for those of us who are in long-term relationships. When we don't have limerence on our side anymore, which is that absolutely intoxicating cocktail of hormones and neurotransmitters in the first six to 24 months of a relationship. It's like, okay, now we actually need to start intentionally cultivating these conditions. I'm a big believer that the honeymoon phase never has to end.

Keep that going. Yeah, you can. It requires effort to cultivate. With intention. Absolutely. And so when we're thinking about desire and bringing desire back to the forefront, right, we've got this concept of making eroticism a lifestyle. And really that comes down to doing things each day, big or small, that make you feel more sensual, that make you connect with your body, that make you feel your body.

So this could be things like listening to erotica on your way home from work or reading a smutty novel before bed, creating a sensual space for yourself and your partner. The amount of times I have told clients, clean up your fucking socks from your bedroom floor. It's not a horny environment for me to look down and see your socks and undies from three days ago. Nah, no way.

It's giving teenager. So taking the time to actually create a space that is free of distractions, that feels really sensual. So bring all of your senses online. What do you want to smell? What fabrics and textures do you want to feel across your skin? Do you want a nice fur blanket or a velvet duna cover? Some silk sheets. What feels good for your body? Hemp sheets, ladies. Hemp sheets for me. Send me a link. I'm in the market for some new bed linen.

They are good. Thank you. Right. We can do things that are also exciting and new. Novelty is a huge part of desire, particularly for those of us in long-term relationships. Even if the routine way that we have sex or experience pleasure in these relationships is good and satisfying, we still are going to get bored.

And so switching things up is a really important part of that, right? It's about getting curious, getting creative with what you can experience sexually, particularly for those of us with ADHD. Low dopamine, we're coming to the function with low dopamine all the time. And so we tend to need a bit more novelty when it comes to the bedroom as well. So we can add some more stimulation. We can try something new. And so we also want to take the goal of orgasm.

out of the equation. Yeah, I struggle with that. Look at me. I'm like, what? That's why I go there. What's the point? Often when I say that to people, I'm like, let's take the goal of sex. I mean, let's take the goal of orgasm out of sex. They're like, what is the point? Why would I have sex then? It's like, there's so many more things that we can experience here, right? So if we remove that goal of orgasm, we're going to be much more present.

and able to feel the pleasure and sensations and the difference in those sensations in our body, rather than being super focused on, am I going to come? Oh, I feel like I'm getting close to coming. Oh, I hope they don't move. Oh no, they moved. I've lost the rhythm a bit. Oh, they're doing the wrong thing. Oh no, oh no. And the thing about orgasms is the more we think about them, the more elusive they become. Oh no. So if we're actually super present and super focused on the pleasure that we can feel moment to moment,

you are going to be far more likely to experience an orgasm. All right. Yeah. So I also think it's super useful for all of us to commit to a daily pleasure practice. And so a pleasure practice. can be super different for all of us and will probably change day to day. So a pleasure practice at its core is something that we want to do for 15 to 20 minutes each day solely for pleasure. And 15 to 20 minutes might sound like a bit of a stretch. If you can't commit to this every day, at least try each week because after that 15 to 20 minute period, this is how long it takes for your bod to actually start producing those feel-good endorphins.

So the more that we prioritize pleasure and feeling pleasure, the more our body builds an appetite for it. And we can tap into it then if we understand the process a little bit better. Exactly. Look, I'll keep banging on about this because I'm new to it, but the novels, the smart novels, honestly, because we are going through a phase in society of this hedonistic, ridiculous pleasure where everything is literally on tap. Yes, while I am visual,

Porn is destroying men, I feel, destroying men and women, I'm not just going to say, but just, you know, from the experiences I've had. And that whole learning how to think through or think what you actually want and those slight nuances like, you know, the clothes, how it felt, how, you know, I can't explain it right now. You're much better on that. But it's so important.

It's so important. And visual porn can be a great tool, but I think we have, it's quite a contentious topic because we have very poor levels of sex education across the board. And so that means that young people are largely turning to pornography for sex education. Porn. never has been and never will be a source of education. It is entertainment. It is literally designed to stimulate us in a really intense way. And so written erotica can be a really beautiful and more cerebral way to connect with your desire, right? Gentle. Another thing that I think is really useful about erotic novels and smart, and I'm not going to get too deep into this because we're going to do a whole episode. We're going to do an episode on that.

But it also is so helpful because it helps you visualize how certain sexual dynamics, kinks, BDSM practices can be played out. So unless you're watching visual porn, and we know, especially when it comes to kink and BDSM representation, they're often quite intense and hardcore. And kink and BDSM play doesn't have to be like that. It can be if that's how you want it to be. But it's not a prerequisite.

Google and amazing resources can give you like how-to tutorials of how to set up a kink scene, how to experiment with impact play, but it can still feel a bit clunky. So when it comes to smut and erotica, you get to read that whole scene, right? It is rich with sensory detail. They are painting a picture. Yes, sensory detail. It's a picture. I love it. It's just you can kind of almost put yourself there with that, but it's, I don't know, it is. It's new for me, so I'm very excited. I love it.

So good. Right. The things we learn. The things that we learn. Sorry, I took us on the segue there. You know I'm always down for a side quest. Like I'm always a willing passenger for a side quest.This brings me back to what I wanted to talk about as a really practical tool that we can use to help us switch from one state to another state. So if we're coming home from a day of work, we've stopped by the supermarket to get stuff for dinner, we've come home, the dog's barking, we fed the dog, we've made dinner for ourself, we've sat down to eat and then we're just like, oh, okay. And then your partner tries to initiate sex with you and you're like, absolutely fucking not.

I am not interested right now. What we need to do is actually shift states. Because if you think the state of being that you were in, as you go about your day, you're thinking, you're doing, you're strategizing, you're planning your next move, you are probably a bit rushed. There's lots of different demands from different people. And so that state of being is completely different to the state of being that we need to be in to feel open and receptive to pleasure, to feel like pleasure in sex might be something that we're interested in.

And so to go from this state to this state can be really jarring. So what we want to look at is erotic bridges. Erotic bridges is a term coined by sex therapist Casey Tanner. And erotic bridges are any activity that create a bridge to sexual intimacy by creating anticipation and connection.

Because often when we think about that, coming home at the end of the day and then our partner trying to initiate, we're probably feeling quite disconnected from them. We're in our head instead of in our body. We're not feeling emotionally connected to our partner because we've just been this whirlwind of end of day chores. And so, again, it's a jarring experience. So these erotic bridges are anything that we can do to build that sense of anticipation and connection. Help us move into that receptive state. So these could be things like having a shared shower, massages.

date nights, dancing or cooking together, having screen-free nights. Every single one of us should be having at least one screen-free night. whether it's by ourselves or with a partner. Oh, you don't have to sell that to me. I know. It's my biggest thing because it's a dampener. Your dopamine hits that you get from that screen are not going to be the same as you get from your partner or your kids or, you know, absolutely. A hundred percent. And not to mention, it also just feels totally shit when you're wanting to connect with your partner and they're just scrolling TikTok on their phone and you're trying to tell them a story and they haven't looked up from their phone. They're just like, oh.

Yeah, really? And it's like, hello, I'm here. Am I even a person? Unsexy. Put your phones away. It's unsexy. 100%. Have some decorum. Put your phone down. Yes. All right. So, again, talking about sex, watching porn or reading erotica, sexting, sending nudes, flirting, particularly in long-term relationships, bring back the flirtation. Keep flirting, yes. We let it die for some reason as we settle into the mundanity of domestic life with a partner. Bring back the flirtation. Give that bitch some CPR, okay, because it will change the way you relate to each other. Yeah, absolutely. And that is a really helpful thing to.

take you from feeling like housemates to connecting as lovers again is bringing back that flirtation, the playful anticipation and tease. So what else can we be doing? Taking a shower together, fantasizing about something that turns you on, writing erotica. This is a fun little experiment for you, Kyla, now that you've just had your first smut foray. Smutty scene. That can be super fun.

Have a naked TV night. Bonus points if you watch an erotic film. Take turns organizing a date night. Wear something that makes you feel slinky and sensual. I don't know about you, but silky fabrics, velvet, faux fur, those are always my go-tos to feel really present in my body. Yeah. So we want to be using things like these.

As an erotic bridge, not as a way when we're not thinking of it as like, okay, well, we're going to have a shower together and then we're going to have sex. It's like, we're going to have a shower together. We're going to connect and experience pleasure as we wash each other's bodies and be present under this delicious hot water. And then we'll see what happens from there, right? You're not using erotic bridges as a way to definitively know that you're going to get sex. No. We're using it as a tool to see what happens.

And even if you don't have sex, you're still going to be feeling more connected and experiencing more pleasure. And I feel like eventually the subconscious takes over. Once it understands, once you understand that that part, like if you are using certain things regularly, your body does start to go, ah, I know what we're going to do here. So don't just try it once. Continue on. It may take a little bit longer than you expect, especially when you're coming from a place of low desire.

Absolutely. And my supervisor, Dij, always says to me, the practice is the hardest part of the process. And this is something I parrot to my clients as well. You're not going to try one of these pleasure practices or one of these erotic bridges or one of these activities once and have a totally mind-blowing experience. It's a practice. We need to create a new way of being, these new neural pathways in our brain and condition our body and our nervous system to go, hey, actually, this feels really good and safe for me.

I don't know about yourself time. Yes. Give yourself time. I'm telling myself, give yourself time. You know, like whenever I say, I was like, that's right. You got it. You really do. You forget. Yeah. It is so easy to forget. And I don't know about you, Kyla, but I would also classify cannabis as an erotic bridge for me. I would. Yeah. Because it can be a really useful tool.

And look, if we look, you know, I know that you and I have looked at some of these statistics, but even going back to 1974, there was a study that they did of 251 college students, 57.8% of women reported increased sexual desire and interestingly compared to 39.1% of men. So it did something more for the women than it did for the men.

You know, well, in the 70s, but there are also other studies suggesting, you know, quite similar in increased desire. Yeah, absolutely. And there was a study that I came across through some research I was doing a couple of months ago about cannabis and particularly looking at women. But one of the studies, I think.

The researcher's surname was Klein. The study came out in 2012 and it said that it found that cannabis may indirectly enhance sexual functioning by decreasing anxiety and increasing relaxation and sensory focus. And so even with that, and anecdotally, I know my experiences align with that. I know the clients and friends that I have spoken to about this as well. Yes, they agree.

Cannabis, it is a vasodilator. So it will bring more blood to the area for both women and men anyway. So it can be quite helpful not only in cultivating desire but and being able to drop into your body to have that time to approach that sexual bridge without the pain or the absolutely no because, you know, you can feel like.

so so harsh if you're bringing coming into it in a soft way where you're open and your mind's relaxed your body will follow absolutely absolutely and it's about bringing the mind and body together yeah we are not a mind or a body we have both and they are deeply and intimately interconnected

Yeah, and powerful. And so the more we can do to strengthen that mind-body connection, things like the pleasure practices, the erotic bridges that we've spoken about so far today, they can go a really long way to help infan the flames of your desire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So as much as we have touched on the plant today, you know, Lily and I in chatting around this is just I think desire is.

It is the place where we start. It is important. And there is research out there showing that the plant can help in, you know, as a tool. If this is, you know, something that you are looking at at the moment in your life, just make sure to give yourself the time. I'm going to keep saying that because it is in a rush. You can take plenty of time.

And I think by, you know, taking some of these things that Lily's chatted about, do you have something that we can put into the show notes? Maybe we'll give them a little, you know, like a one pager on something that they can actually. Do the sexual bridges, for example, in case you forget, because I know sometimes I need to look at it again. Yes, I've actually got a resource called Make Sense of Your Turn Ons that I'll make available in the show notes for your listeners. And that takes a bit of a step back from desire and is actually looking at what turns you on physically, psychologically. So there's a couple of activities and guided exercises that I take you through in this workbook. It's all very easy, sexy, fun.

light a candle, have a glass of wine. Light a joint, do it with your partner or do it solo, but make a nice little ritual out of it. This is an experiment in exploring your pleasure and that is sacred and fun and deserves to be ritualized. So go through those exercises. You'll learn more about your fantasies, your core erotic theme, the things that turn you on. And when you've got that information, you're then going to be able to create a context for desire to come through because context is everything when it comes to desire.

Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, that's a great resource that we will put in the show notes. And is there anything else that we need to cover today on our desire episode? I mean, I could. keep talking for hours. You know this, but for anyone who's listening, I would love to hear from you as Kyla and I cook up these episodes. I'd love to know if there's a specific topic that you'd like us to cover or hear about. So slide into the DMs. You can actually email directly from the podcast at the bottom. There's a little email us button. Yeah. So if you email in or I will pop our socials as well at the end of the show notes and you can just, you know, slide in.

to our dms and we will put some questions up as we get into more of rhythm we'll put questions up because we do love to answer your questions some of the topics that we are looking at doing are um pain and sex i think that that's quite important to to touch upon what else did we talk about i've lost my notes now erotica that's gonna get a whole episode just because i want to do an episode on cannabis being a pleasure enhancer

So I want to dive deeper into the research with you and have a look about, you know, what are people doing? What are the results they're experiencing? Yeah, absolutely. We've got loads of episodes in there. And I'd also like to do an episode on neurodivergent sexuality as well because that does not get enough airtime and it is such a complex topic. It is a complex topic. It's one that many of us would benefit from. So if you have another idea of something you'd like us to cover, please let us know because we do love to.

We do love to do what you guys want to listen to. We live to serve. We do. We do live to serve, don't we? We live to serve. Thank you for chatting today, babe. That was awesome. I love it. Can't wait till we do our next one. This is so exciting. So fun.