32 - Dependence, Insomnia & Letting Go: Shaye’s Story of Rebuilding Her Relationship With Cannabis.

In this deeply honest conversation, Kyla sits down with Shaye Topaz a mum, insomniac, and long-time cannabis consumer  to explore what happens when the plant that helped you cope becomes something you rely on.

Shay shares her 12-year relationship with THC, from rolling joints at 18 for sleep, to mothering through stress, heartbreak, and survival… all the way to the moment she realised she was dependent, not addicted, and decided it was time for a reset.

This episode moves through insomnia, nervous system overwhelm, motherhood, emotional regulation, and the spiritual side of cannabis including the comfort, companionship, and “being held” feeling so many women relate to.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why cannabis is such a powerful tool for sleep, stress, and emotional soothing
• How motherhood, overwhelm and loneliness influence cannabis use
• What it’s like to quit after more than a decade of nightly THC
• The emotional and physical symptoms of a tolerance break
• Appetite, metabolism, cortisol spikes, and night waking during withdrawal
• Using CBD, magnesium, adaptogens and supplements to support the nervous system
• Breaking the ritual: shifting from smoking to tinctures
• The spiritual and relational experience of cannabis as a “holder”
• How to know when you’re ready to take a break — and why readiness matters
• Creating new rituals, boundaries, and habits during a cannabis reset

About Shaye

Shaye is a mother of two navigating single parenthood, chronic insomnia, emotional healing, and a long-term relationship with cannabis. Her story reflects the reality for many women who use THC for sleep, coping, and nervous system support. Her honesty and introspection make this a powerful conversation for anyone reconsidering their relationship with the plant. 

You can find Shaye @shayetopaz

Resources & Links

• Kyla’s 21-Day T-Break Guide — a step-by-step journal for anyone wanting to explore their relationship with THC
• Dr Jeffrey Hergenrather’s work on cannabis use in pregnancy
• Research from Jamaica on cannabis, pregnancy and maternal outcomes

Transcript

What happens when the plant you love becomes the thing you depend on? Not in an addictive spiral, but in that quiet, habitual way so many women slide into without realising.

Shay joins me today to unpack her journey with THC — sleep, stress, motherhood, heartbreak — and the moment she realised she was dependent on the plant and needed to find her way back to herself.

There we go. Welcome back to the Counter Curious podcast. And today I have got Shay with me. Hey, Shay, welcome. And thank you for coming along to chat. Good morning. Now, I thought we would chat about where you started with the plant. So take me back to when you first started taking the plant, THC, CBD, all of that.

Yeah, I was pretty young. I think I was pretty fresh, 18, 19-year-old. Sometimes it feels like time of so long ago. I kind of started just, it was a classic gateway, I suppose, for me, just like wanted something a little bit extra. So I had a few tokes and I very quickly realised that would help me to go to sleep. Yes, which is, I think, something that a lot of women find, that it is such a help.

for going to sleep. And so, and what was your method of consumption then? Pretty much always just smoking, just rolling a fat joint. Rolling a fat joint, smoking a fat joint. Yeah. And then, and then how, like, how have you utilized the plant then over the years? So for me, it has pretty much predominantly always been.

for sleeping, sometimes for like some stress relief or if I just want to have a chill afternoon or something like that. But it's pretty much always been for sleeping. I've been a pretty chronic insomniac for as long as I can remember. And once I realised this was something that could help me to go to sleep, it was a strong yes from my nervous system, I suppose. Yeah, especially when you're not sleeping. That's a really hard one.

And, you know, and for a lot of women, as I speak to lots of women, we're in the same boat. It doesn't matter what sort of, I think, phase of life that we're in. You know, it's so important for the everyday. Now, the reason that we have chatted is because recently you have decided to stop using THC, which is one component of the plant. And, you know, I'm really interested and I know that there'll be listeners out there that are interested to hear this story.

So where are you at now and how did you get to that decision? Well, I realised pretty early on at like 23-ish that I was pretty dependent on it. I come from a family that has addiction. My own dad died of a heroin overdose. So I kind of could see like this pattern of like I am addicted per se to marijuana and it was something that I didn't want. I didn't want that pattern within me forever.

But when I first tried to quit, I ended up then falling into sleeping tablets because I still couldn't sleep. So I came straight back onto the marijuana again and I didn't even really, it was always in the back of my mind niggling, like you are dependent on this rather than like you're choosing to have this kind of thing. It was always in the back of my mind that I wanted to be finished with it.

When I had my first child, I did actually abstain from anything when I was pregnant with my first. But with my second, I smoked the whole way through. He's fine, by the way. Which I just wanted to actually pause for a second there because I know there will be people going, however, it is controversial. And cannabis has been used in pregnancy.

And for women with nausea, sleep and pain for centuries. And there is actually a doctor, and I'll put this in the show notes for everybody, called Jeffrey Hergen, rather, who has been working with women since the 60s. He actually lived on a compound. They used cannabis to help with labor, birth.

you know, even early pregnancy. So it has always been used as a medicine and he's followed those families and children. And there's also a study in Jamaica. So it is a dumb thing. It's just that Western medicine has not allowed us to do that. Yeah. And fun fact, very good for milk production. If you have low milk, have a little.

My son's movie's just finished. I'm just going to quickly turn that back on. What happened? Did you lean on it on accident, Baba? That's okay. There you go. Yes, that's okay, darling.

Yes, and during that time in my life I was under so like an immense amount of stress. So we were going through the court system with my stepdaughter at the time. We had to move house really all of a sudden. I was so unbelievably stressed. So I honestly could not have given up at that point in my life. There was just no way. Going back to the sleeping tablets because I'm always interested to hear like the difference in how you felt like with, you know, with sleeping tablets because there isn't.

Difference between addiction and dependence, and you have actually, you know, you've used that language that you were dependent on the cannabis. Yeah. So, you know, how did you feel when you had to swap medicine? Oh, it's still always in the back of your head because it also becomes a habit, like put the kids to bed roller, you know. Yeah. It's a soothing pattern as well. It's the routine.

It is the routine of it. So the sleeping tablets themselves, I barely remember. That was when I was like 24. But I can tell you when I had my daughter, I ended up in a mum and bubs unit. I was a very stressful time in my life. And they actually put me on quetiapine, a huge drug, like a horse tranquilizer. Yeah, I know. And let me tell you, it did not put me to sleep. It was so strong, but my body was just so unbelievably stressed. It's the only thing that worked for me.

was marijuana so it has had to come to a point within myself where I really wanted to let go of that for my own sake and not for another reason so when I have now recently quit like I don't know how many two and a half months ago or something now I had to journey through hell. Yeah, so talk us through that. Some people say that they are so fine, but I think because I had been smoking for 12 years, you know, on and off, but pretty much for 12 years. So for me, it has been a journey. Psychological and also I come from a background of chronic under eating and as much as smoke can help some people to like.

To eat, for me it just shut everything down. Yeah, yeah. It just shut everything down and so I just wouldn't eat. And then because I was going to sleep, I was then waking up during the night. hungry as well so now I'm finding I'm actually finding that my metabolism has come back online again in a way that's honestly annoying because it gets to nine o'clock at night and I'm like I'm so hungry all I want to do is go to sleep but I am starving yeah yeah yeah but anyway I'm finding that I'm actually tuning into my body a lot better so for that first month I resisted and honestly that was a big thing because I was like I'm hungry but I'm not going to get up to eat so then my cortisol all night long spike

And I'd go to sleep and then I'd spike the weight. I know that feeling. And then spike and then down. Every 40 minutes. It was crazy for ages. So now when I feel the hunger, I roll my eyes and I say, okay, buddy, I love you. I will get up and I will feed you. I get up and I make cheese on toast. And then sleep. Yes. And then I sleep. If you eat dinner really early, like in Queensland here. We do. You're at like 6 o'clock. Yeah. Oh, we've got kids. So sometimes I cook dinner at 4.30 in the afternoon. Yeah, yeah. You're right. It's crazy.

And food is so important. I also find when I'm anxious, like, and I don't eat because I'm anxious, and then it just turns into this whole circle. And as soon as you eat, your body goes, ah. Yeah, I just needed some love and some nourishment, please. Just needed some nourishment. Thank you. We can't run away. So that was something that I found with smoking a lot was that I was ignoring my body's needs and I wasn't even really able to hear them.

And also my own emotions. I've always found marijuana, you know, it's a gift. It's a gift from other guys. And I was using it to feel loved and to feel less alone because I have been on quite a journey in the last, you know, five, six years with becoming a mum and the dynamic that I was in. And I smoked not just to go to sleep then, but also to feel a love hole in my heart.

And then when I moved out onto my own, into my own house as a single mum, it was, it made me feel less alone. I wasn't by myself. And you could call that woo-woo or spiritual or whatever, but the plant made me feel like someone was holding me. Babe, I know that feeling. I know that feeling very, very well. And I think that, you know, I've written about this before that through my separation and, you know, becoming.

that transition from being a family to being a mum of my own. I mean, I was on the floor crying. I can't tell you how many nights, but she was with me. Oh, me too. It's so challenging. The plant, she held me. She held me. Yeah. You know, she helped me process a lot of that pain that I don't think I would have been able to without it. Yeah. So take it. Sorry. I feel that too. Yeah.

Yeah, it is. It's pretty special and spiritual and it can certainly have its place. So take me back to two and a half months ago. You're right, right? I'm doing it. You've done an amazing job.

Oh, thank you. When I first moved into this house, so I had told myself at like 25 that I was no longer going to be smoking tobacco at 30. And I was actually sure I was going to do it by 26. But I ended up in a relationship with a man who's a full-time smoker. So I wasn't smoking a lot of tobacco, but I was smoking enough that I was still like, I need to smoke at the end of the night kind of thing. But I moved here, I turned 30 and I said to myself, well, girl, are you going to do the thing or you're not going to do the thing? So I did. I quit tobacco.

um I still was rolling marijuana up with just some like raspberry leaf or just a bit of whatever I had like because I love tea so just some kind of herbal tea which is great which is very good much better than tobacco agreed and I realized okay who's in control here is it me or is it that

you know and I'm sitting outside my children inside in bed I was wishing that I was with them I was getting impatient with them as they're trying to go to sleep because my daughter is not a not a sleeper um and I'm just hanging out for this smoke and I'm like okay so who's in charge here it's not me and I'm sitting outside and it's freezing cold and I'm like smoking whatever and I'm like okay something needs to give and I'm being called within myself like you need to give this up you need to give this up I wasn't ready at that point so I ended up on a tincture I got a script from the doctor

And I was having it as like a tincture form. That helped me to break the smoke habit of like trying to get up and have a smoke. And it was still giving me. So instead I would get the kids ready for bed. We're all ready for bed. I would drop a little bit under my tongue. By the time I finished reading books, I was just stoned enough that then I could get up, do what I needed to do for half an hour and go to bed and go to sleep. Yeah. And then I was like, okay, I'm ready to finish this. And then Christmas time hit. So this was last year. And I was like, oh, and I ended up.

with a little pipe and i was just like having a little before i before i go to bed because christmas you're all over the shelf it wasn't enough time in my head for the tig to set in whatever um and then it took me i went back off the pipe i tried to come off it all completely in march i think it was this year and i still just wasn't ready and then i had a breakup

a fresh breakup with a man who I have been with three times already or twice already so this would be the third time and who I just have always loved with my whole heart and I thought man this sucks and do you know what would be a good idea to just get rid of all the sucky shit all the stuff I've been saying I want to do let's just do it all now let's just bleed heart cry on the floor for the next couple of months and so that's what I did

I do love that you change consumption method. I like that. It's a really good one, you know, for listeners that if you're smoking and you want to transition, it is better to take a tincture. A tincture is longer lasting. It's much better for sleep. And, you know, look, it's better for your lungs. I don't think combustible.

Again, I don't judge, but I think combustion method is probably the safest out of all of them. So, you know, I think you did an absolutely brilliant job doing that. Yeah, that was the easiest for breaking that mental, like, the habit of, yeah. Yeah, and you're right about it. It's this, you know, it's the routine. It's like me. I've tried to give up coffee and I hate that I can't, I don't get up.

you know, do the fresh beans. It's the whole thing around it, the ritual around it. And when you swap from a joint to an oil, you have to change your ritual, really, if you create a beautiful ritual around it. And so you've gone from method of consumption change and then a breakup, heartbreak, and you're like, right, that's it. I'm going to throw it in the fire. Burn it to the ground. You're nearly 32. Pull your big girl pants up. It's time.

Right. And how did that go? Honestly, it was horrible for the first, like, month. For the first three weeks, I was up every 40 minutes, like we already spoke about. Like, I wasn't able to listen to my body properly. I didn't know what to give it. I was just so frustrated. I was like, just go to sleep. Like, why have you always struggled with this shit? Just go to sleep. And obviously, that didn't really work. No, it didn't just do what you told it. I can't believe it.

I know, wow. So, yeah, it's been a slow process of having to be like, okay, what is it that you need? What is it that you want? A lot of feelings that I haven't processed were stuck as well. So, like, I would eat the toast and still be like, why can't I go to sleep? Get so frustrated with myself that I would end up with tears and then it might unfurl. Maybe some tapping, you know, I don't know if you're into EFT tapping or anything. Oh, bag this one for me. Just to try and, like, get it out.

I do a lot of breath work anyway. So I did, I can't say that I consciously prepared, but I had been, my spirit has been telling me for a long time, like this needs to go. So I have been doing some breath work sessions on like, I want, I want to feel freedom within myself. I want to know myself. So whether, you know, or not that pushed me to the big give it up too. So I do, I do a lot of that kind of practice. Which I think is.

Well, I think it does, but you don't realise it. If you're a person without any of those tools, that's why I'm interested to hear because, you know, it's like a giraffe skating on ice at the end of the day, like, you know. And for me as well, like meditation and breath work has been such an important part of my life going through all these massive changes. And I think when you practise that, it picks up anyway where you need it.

Exactly. And, you know, you reflect on an intention you might have set six months ago and being frustrated that it didn't come to fruition straight away and then reflecting like, oh, that's how it came about. Thank you to the past self. So I know that in a year's time I will be thanking my past self and I'm hoping in a year's time I can then have one smoke once a month or something, you know, like without falling back into it again.

Yeah, absolutely. Because it's still something that I have always enjoyed, so I don't intend for it to be like a black man. And this is a very personal journey for you. There's a lot of personal growth, I think, that, you know, you're going through in real time whilst you're deciding to, you know, to change your life really at the end of the day.

parent my kids and do my exercise yeah right and cook and pay bills and and try and have time to ourselves it's hard it's really tough and I think you're doing an amazing job as a as a mum and as a as a woman because it is it is really really hard and I know for a lot of people listening that um you know

trying to work out whether it's a dependence or an addiction. And I'll do a lot more on this, you know, in the coming months because I think it's really important for people to understand. And I hope, you know, again for you, I think that you're right, like in a year or when you've broken that psychological dependence that you will be able to go back to the plant.

And are you taking any supplements? Like what else are you doing, like, in these last couple of months to help your body, you know, as you said, give it some tools? I am smashing supplements. So I actually used to own a supplement store, so I have endless things available that just, like, are sitting on my little shelf. Reishi is the big one that I'm using. Magnesium. Everyone could be taking magnesium. Oh, I know. Note to self, take magnesium today. I've forgotten again. Yeah, yeah. I'm literally taking, like,

four of these fat tablets every day whilst I'm trying to get my nervous system back into order. I did used to take CBD. I haven't in this period yet. I probably will turn back to that over Christmas period as I'm trying to navigate everything. You know, all those things we just mentioned plus the Christmas period. However, I felt that I needed to be off everything.

for the first little while. But I do love CBD oil as well. Which is, you know, again, a really great personal choice. For me, when I break from the big THC, I go quite heavy on the CBD only because, you know, again, nervous system support for me and magnesium. I've been saying this to lots of women this week. Take your magnesium. It's such a simple one and it does.

incredible things we're all magnesium deficient we are 70 of women are completely magnesium deficient you need to take magnesium you need to take a complex and it needs to be of some good quality excellent yeah you need excellent quality um magnesium and glycinate is that what we take at night time isn't it i forget glycinate i should know yeah uh and did you have like i went when i have a tea break i end up

It's this weird thing happens and I've looked it up. I've done some research, can't find much. But night two, three and four for me, I wake up saturated in sweat. Saturated. What the heck? I have to get up and get changed. Like I don't even have those with perimenopause or menopause yet. It actually reminded me a little bit of, do you remember after having your babies and no one tells you this, you have your babies and then that first week or two and you went up and you were like.

Like I just accidentally dove into a pool. Yeah, look, what is this? No one tells me these things. Is this part of it? Should I speak about this out loud? Yeah, should I call my doctor? It was like that for a little bit, yeah. It's insane. Not for long. It was probably only a couple of nights, I reckon, in reflection. But, yeah, it's a bit gross. It is a bit gross. It is gross and it's cold. If it's in winter, it's cold.

So you're about to go Christmas break. I mean, we're all about to have a Christmas break. I don't know why we call it a break because it doesn't seem to be a break to me. Christmas vlogging. I'm going to say that now. We're all about to go for Christmas vlogging. So what would you recommend to people out there that might want to give themselves either a tea break or, you know, to turn away from dependents?

I really think that's such a personal, like you really need to be ready for it. There's really nothing I can say it really has to come from within oneself. And honestly, like I said, it took me a few turns. It really did take me a few tries over the course of a few years. So, you know, maybe if you haven't been smoking or, you know, consuming for so long, it might not take you that long, but it takes a lot of patience with oneself and a lot of grace too. Yeah.

And I just think that. I think that's good advice. Like don't like give yourself some grace. I know that's something that I find personally very difficult and not to beat yourself up because you're. And when you are ready, then you can be a little sterner with yourself. You know, it just settled in me. I was like, it's time now. Now is your time. And so then it was like, we've already spoken out. I've lined up my supplements. I prepared myself for probably not being able to sleep, you know, got the practices and let's go.

and not having it in the house. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's so easy. You know, I've had a couple of nights in the last couple of months where I'm like, oh, I'm just hankering. I'm absolutely hankering. But there was no option. So I thought, well, have a cup of tea. Yeah, but I think that's good advice too. Like, you know, don't give yourself the option if you're that kind of person.

that, you know, we'll go back to it. And for the listeners, I will put in to the show notes my 21-day tea break guide because I found that when I went to have a tea break, there wasn't a lot of information in one place. So I've put together a pretty much step-by-step, day-by-day. It's got a place for your notes in it so you can write notes to yourself.

And the thing about it is I'd like people to do that and keep it so that when they go for another break, they can remember. Read it, yeah. Like how they felt because sometimes I'm like, did this happen on day five? Am I going crazy? Is this really what happened to me? And then you can read back and go, oh, yeah, that's right. Day five, I do feel a bit like that. So that's okay. Give yourself some grace. That's great. Oh, I wish I had read that at the start. Right?

Well, thank you so much for coming to chat to me today. I really, you know, really appreciate it and the listeners out there too.

Before we close today, I just want to speak directly to anyone listening who might be sitting in that grey zone between dependence and addiction, or maybe realising you’ve relied on cannabis more than you thought. You’re not alone, and this conversation is not a diagnosis — it’s an invitation to self-reflection.

What Shay described so beautifully is something I see in so many women: cannabis as a coping tool, a sleep support, a soft place to land when life is too big. And that doesn’t make you broken. It makes you human.

If you’re considering a tolerance break or just want to get curious about your relationship with the plant, my 21-day guide is linked in the show notes. It’s gentle, structured, and designed to help you understand your own patterns without shame.

Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. And thank you to Shay for her honesty, because conversations like this are how we change the narrative around women, coping, and cannabis