The Canna Curious Podcast: Conversations on Cannabis, Wellness & Women’s Health
A podcast exploring medicinal cannabis, plant-based healing, and women’s health. Host Kyla de Clifford shares real stories, expert insights, and conscious conversations about chronic pain, nervous system support, advocacy, and natural medicine. For curious minds redefining healing.
Note: Canna Curious is an independent educational podcast. Content is for general information only and does not promote or advertise any therapeutic goods. Always talk to a qualified health professional about your individual circumstances.
The Canna Curious Podcast: Conversations on Cannabis, Wellness & Women’s Health
61 - The Truth About Pubic Hair with Dr Erica Zelfand.
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Who Told Us Hairless Was Healthier?
What if one of the beauty standards we've accepted for decades wasn't based on health at all?
In this episode, I sit down with integrative physician Dr Erica Zelfand to unpack the surprising history of body hair, the myths surrounding hygiene, and how marketing has influenced the way many of us think about our bodies.
We explore why pubic hair exists in the first place, whether removing it has any health benefits, and how beauty standards have evolved over the past century.
Also in this episode:
Wellness Field Notes
- My latest wellness rabbit hole: washing with hydrogen peroxide and vinegar.
Dating Diaries
- One observation from my recent adventures back in the dating world...Are European lovers really different from Australian men?
In this episode we discuss:
- Why body hair exists.
- Does hairless really mean cleaner?
- The surprising history of women's shaving.
- Gillette's role in changing beauty standards.
- The function of pubic hair.
- Body hair and sexual health.
- Beauty, ageing and self-acceptance.
- Choosing for yourself rather than following expectations.
About Dr Erica Zelfand
Dr Erica Zelfand is an integrative physician, naturopathic doctor and educator who combines conventional medicine with nutrition, lifestyle medicine and whole-person care. Her work focuses on helping people reconnect with their health through evidence-informed and compassionate care.
Connect with Dr Erica Zelfand
Azure Health
Azure Health is a healthcare clinic with specialist female doctors who are passionate about creating a safe, respectful healthcare experience for women.
Learn more at Azure Health
The Survey
How Women Want to be Spoken to About Cannabis
If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you subscribed, left a review, or shared it with someone who enjoys questioning the things we often take for granted.
A lot of women's insecurities were designed in a boardroom, right? So. And now boardrooms with women in them, too. We've kind of internalized the oppression, so much so that we keep one another in. In the. In the confines of beauty standards that are not realistic. So. So the other element of my work is I do, like, psycho spiritual healing with people. Whether that's like, depression, anxiety, or just like, existential woe. Nature helps a lot. Working through some of that, too, because, like, does. I don't know, five minutes, uh, into a walk in the woods, you're suddenly like, who cares about my Instagram feed? You. Know. A few weeks ago, my producer sent me a message and said, you have to interview this woman. I looked her up and thought, absolutely. The funny thing is she's an integrative physician, a naturopath, works in psychedelic medicine, helps people heal in the mountains of Mexico, and today we're talking about pubic hair. But as you'll hear, this conversation isn't really about pubic hair. It's more about the stories we've been told about women's bodies, beauty standards, and how easily we confuse marketing with medicine. Dr. Erica Zelfand has a wonderful way of making you laugh while questioning things you've probably never stopped to think about. Welcome to the Canna Curious podcast, where curiosity is your compass and no question is too awkward. I'm your host, Kyla declifford. I'm a cannabis educator, a cannabis patient, and I'm passionate about helping women make sense of their bodies. If you've ever felt dismissed, overwhelmed, or like you've had to piece together your own answers about your health, your relationships, or medicinal cannabis, you are absolutely not alone. Every week we get curious about the things that shape women's lives, from medicinal cannabis and women's health to my wellness field notes, relationships, dating in midlife, intimacy, and all the questions that don't seem to fit neatly anywhere else. Some weeks I'm chatting with some incredible guests, and some weeks it's just you and me unpacking something that's been on my mind. This episode of Canacurious is proudly sponsored by Azure Health. So grab a cuppa, get comfortable, and let's spark, uh, up the conversation. Well, today on the podcast, it's going to be a, ah, wild ride. I am going to be talking with Dr. Erica Zellfand about pubic hair. Yeah, we're going there. Absolutely, we're going there. But before we jump into the interview, I thought I'd catch you up on what's been going on in my world. I spoke yesterday morning at the International Women's Cannabis Conference, which was, you know, absolutely amazing to be asked to be one of the speakers. I was also lucky enough to close the conference. So it was. It was amazing. And I was thinking about it today. I think the funniest thing is that I had still not learned how to prepare for something without getting entirely stressed out. Last week was I get, you know, I get frozen. So I've got this big thing on and I'm letting everything else go because all I could focus on was getting ready, um, for the conference. So I, you know, it was quite funny observing myself repeat the same things I probably did at a year 11 and year 12 exam. It was such a lovely way to start the week and today reflecting upon it too. For people that attended, like 400 people attend, the information and the speakers that get put in front of you for that low cost is better than any course. So jump across and follow them. And when they've got their next one coming up, make sure you get tickets. If you want to learn about the plant. It is one of the most cost effective and phenomenal ways to hear from incredible speakers. I presented the survey findings update, and to date, we've had over 500 women respond. So thank you so much. Uh. For those of you that have. And if you still want to have your voice as part of this, please fill in a survey. Um. I'll drop it in the notes. The link is there. So, yeah, I just really still can't believe what a big start I have had to this week. I'll give you a quick update on my dating life later on in the show, but let's have a chat with Dr. Erica. I've got a mate who's a producer. I cannot afford it, and he's so sweet and he's like, oh, my God, you need to speak to this woman. She's amazing. And I'm like, yes, I do. So whereabouts are you in the States? Oh, no, I live in Mexico. Uh. I was gonna say that does not look like the States to me. No, no, I, uh, Mexico. I'm from. I'm. I grew up in the States. I'm. I mean, I still pay taxes in the States and my medical license is in the States, but I spend. I spend a lot of my time in Mexico, um, for a number of reasons, personal and professional. And you and your patients are there locally? Um. I do a lot of patients on online, on Zoom, and then I do have patients that come that Want to heal by the mountains, um, or by the ocean. And a lot of my work is, you know, not related to pubic hair. I know, I know, I know. That's what I said to him. I'm like, she's amazing, and I'm going to talk to her about pubic hair. But it's, you know, for me, it's around how women are feeling about themselves. It's just incredible how these things can play havoc with women's, you know, mental health. And I've been out in the dating scene, so I'm 50 and I've gone back out there and. Good Lord, not good. Goodness me, I'd rather you on my own. Much rather. Yeah, well, a lot of, uh, a lot of women's insecurities were designed in a boardroom, right? So, uh, and now boardrooms with women in them too. We've kind of internalized the oppression, so much so that we keep one another in the. In the confines of. Of beauty standards that are not realistic. So maybe in that regard. So. So the other element of my work is, um, I do, like, psychospiritual healing with people. Whether that's like, depression, anxiety, or just like, existential woe. Nature helps a lot. Working through some of that too, because, like, it does. I don't know. And so five minutes. Five minutes of, uh, into a walk in the woods, you're suddenly like, who cares about my Instagram feed? You know, I know. Well, just me saying it this morning, as much as my estrogen's all over the shop. I was like, I fully felt that, you know, that beautiful space and to have the plants on board when you're in that space makes for a huge difference. And it's amazing that you're able to do that because, you know, over here, it's. I mean, it's so expensive. Like. Even just access to psychedelic medicine. It started when they made m. When they said it was legal, it was $25,000 just to see the psychiatrist. Can you imagine healing with a psychiatrist in a psych psychiatric space? Like. It. To me, that's the opposite of healing. I mean, yes, I can, because I've done it and I would, you know, and if that's your only option, then I highly recommend it. And it's. So, yeah, that's what I say to people. Go overseas. Go do it. Like. For the money. Even for the money. And just for that experience to be out in nature with someone. So, um, so do you take. Do you have intake at home, like, or at your space? Is that what you do, um, nearby. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I like to. Just keeping the energy kind of clear. I don't see clients in my home unless there's a real extenuating circumstance. But there's a very beautiful circular, um, structure that a friend of mine owns that we rent out, or another space with an even better view, if you can imagine. Or for group work, you know, we'll go into the mountains to a, uh, beautiful retreat center and, you know, let nature do its thing. And let our inner nature do its thing also, because when you kind of turn. Turn the faucet of noise off, there's a lot of beauty and a lot of wisdom to be had there in that space. So. And. And this is something that I tell especially the ladies who come to heal with me, even if it's a group or treat, like, on the days in which we take medicine and do our deep, psycho spiritual dive, please don't wear makeup. And you don't need a bra for this activity. You can just come in in your jammies. And it's still amazing how many people, like, get dolled up and then they're like, you know, their sheets are all covered in their running mascara from their tears. Yeah. Because it's so drilled into us like, m. I'm much happier without any of that. Like. Honestly, like, it's. You know, I love the days where I don't have meetings and I don't feel like I have to put a face on. But, yeah, it's beautiful to hear that people can come out to you. I mean, what an incredible job. You're amazing. Oh, I love my job. I love my job. I love my view. I love the people I work with and for. Yeah, magic. It's very. It's wildly rewarding. All right, so the billion dollar question today. We've been taught that hairless equals clean. Is that actually true? It's true. If you are, say, like, living in, like, a refugee camp or in a homeless shelter or a, uh, setting like that, and there's an outbreak of lice, and everybody has lice. And yes, the. The. The most effective way, uh, in mass to clean up that situation is for everybody to shave their heads and. Or body hair. But barring that, no, it's absolutely not true that hairless is clean. In fact, when we're talking about body hair in particular, it's there for a reason. It's actually more hygienic to have body hair, which a lot of people don't realize, but it's actually more hygienic and in most cases, healthier to have body hair. So what is the purpose of our body hair or our pubic hair? What's the purpose? I'm so glad you asked. There are a few purposes, and this depends on where in the body we're talking about. But actually, it's more or less the same everywhere, starting in the most superficial place, which is the skin. The skin is the largest organ on the body. It serves the purpose of thermoregulation, keeping bad things out, keeping good things in. It is that membrane that holds us together and protects us from the outside. So one way in which body hair can help achieve those goals is, let's say, you know, a fly lands on your arm, and the fly starts walking around on your arm, right? Let's say it's a mosquito and it carries malaria, right? You want to be able to feel that that mosquito is there, so you can chew it away. Now if that. Oh, I have goosebumps just talking about this. My skin is, like, ready. It's like, where's the. Where is it? I'm at. It's very. It's very warm out today. So, yeah, these are. These are goose pimples. Just thinking about this, and if that mosquito starts walking along your hair, it starts to tickle and you feel it quicker, and you go, oh. Oh, yeah, get off. Get off my skin. Or, you know, I grew up in the northeast of the usa, where Lyme disease is a huge problem. Huh. You know, that's where you get bit by a ty. And then. Yeah. And then significant change in your quality of life. Um. If you've got some leg hair or if you've got some pubic hair, or if you've got some armpit hair, those warm places where the ticks like to go, you might find a tick faster, maybe before it even becomes an engorged tick. And then you have to decide whether or not to take antibiotics. So the sensation hair helps us with sensation. And that's true when sex also, or even if you're loving on yourself, just starting by corrupting hair. Caressing pubic hair. Example. Caressing hair around the anus. That can be pleasurable, and that can be part of our sexual response and our arousal and our connection to ourselves and to others. So it can keep us safe. It can also keep us sexy from the perception standpoint. Also, hair is a very efficient way of wicking sweat and heat away from the body. So, you know, let's say you're. You're going for a run or you're taking a, uh, dance class. Or you're. You're active in some way, your body starts to sweat. Sweat is healthy. It's how we detox. Right? But if that sweat hangs around, let's say, in the groin area, in the crack of the buttocks, in the armpits, you start to slosh around in your own sweat, and that irritates the skin. And then, first of all, it's not comfortable. Second of all, you're more likely to get a rash. What hair does is it takes that sweat, and it wicks it away from the body, so it kind of mops it up so you're not sloshing around in your own sweat, and it takes that sweat and pulls it to the edge of the hair. And, I mean, this is a little gross, but the hair gets coated in the sweat, there's more surface area, and it evaporates faster. Yeah, right. So it's actually, like, much more efficient cooling system than whatever polypropylene, you know, shirt from Mont Bell you can buy. Although those are great, too. You. Know. The flip side of that. The flip side of that, I do need to be honest. You. Know. There is a. There is a flip side. The flip side is the hair, you know, because it's absorbing the sweat. When people have, for example, armpit hair, sometimes they report they're a little stinkier than when they shave. Yeah, yeah. But more comfortable. And. And they stay cooler and their skin stays healthier, so. Interesting. Do you think that this. I mean, this is a big question, I guess, but do you think the beauty industry has medicalized something that's, you know, again, it's completely normal to have pubic hair, to have underarm, um, hair. This is. We all. We all grow it. I've got, you know, young kids going through puberty. It's there. It's not like it's, you know, suddenly not happening anymore because we don't like it. Right. Well, you know, it's interesting that you went to medicalization, because it's like, how did we. We skipped a step there. Yeah, we skipped a step. First, I want to tell you a little bit more about pubic hair and why it's awesome, and then we'll talk about this. Your question. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So another. Another way in which pubes are awesome. Uh. Is that, like I said, that hair absorbs. It can absorb the scent. Right. And that can also be important from. We don't know a whole lot about pheromones, but, you know, isn't it so sexy when your partner smells good to you and then you like this, the way you like their funk and you like their must. And. And. And pubes may help do that. But also, from the point of. Of hygiene, pubic hair creates a little tuft in front of the genitalia. And that tuft, you know, your clothes sits on top of that tuft. And if you get rid of your pubic hair, your clothes sit just flat right on your skin. And there's no airway. There's no air passing through there. And the hair creates a little buffer zone between your skin and your clothes where air can pass. And when air passes, you don't get things like jock itch. You don't smell funky in a different way. You're a lot less likely to harbor, um, excess heat and moisture in the area, which increases the risk for certain kinds of infections. In particular, all flavors of vaginitis. Infectious vaginitis. Yeah. For people who have vaginas. So, you know, the hair. The hair is healthy. The hair is hygienic. So to answer your question of are we over medicalizing this? I'm gonna say that this is not even a medical issue. This is a cosmetic issue that masks itself as a medical issue to sell more products. And the way. How did we get here, by the way? Full disclosure. You're listening. This is a hairy armpit. A doctor. So, you know, take. Take from this. What? You take it all with a grain of salt. Yeah. Right. When I first met my husband, he was like, so is that. And I'm like, not negotiable. He's like, okay, yeah, right. And it's just. It's something that we're just being. We're used to, like, yeah, yeah. Y. So normalized. Yeah. And he's like, what about at our wedding? I'm like, we can talk about that. But no, um, so. I love it. I know. Um. But, you know, that's my own. I. I like to stick it to the man. You. Know. That's. That's my own little rebellious side. But. So all of this began as I. As I said to you earlier, a lot of women's insecurities were designed in a boardroom full of men. And so this company, Gillette, you've probably heard of them, they sell razors. And they sold razors. And they sold razors primarily to men. To men, yeah. Uh. You know, shave your face, keep it clean, you know, uh, and they realized, hey, wait a minute. If we can get women to buy razors, could we double our sales? Could we make twice as much money if we got twice as much of the population to buy our product. But most women don't need to shave. Or do they? You know. Oh, yeah. And. And so, you know, there was kind of this soft entry into the market in the 1920s with the whole flapper generation where women started wearing those spaghetti strap dresses. So then it was, you know, shave that, shave the armpits. So you have that kind of like continuous seamless sort of look. And that flapper look is also kind of prepubescent boyish and prepubescent boys don't have hair. So it kind of went in that direction. Um. So a little bit of, you know, pedophilia there. Um. That. It's always been an undercurrent, hasn't it? Yeah, well, it still is, let's face it. That's part of why women now think they need to be hairless. Because, you know, underage, it means hairless. And there is a fetishization of that. Yeah. And what has surprised me is, you know, as I mentioned before, I've been out in the dating world is that the men are doing it. That's what surprised me the most. Men are doing what? Shaving themselves. Shaving, yes. All the men now like the younger guys, not so much the older ones, but the young. Like. You. Know. I'm X, so, uh, probably millennial generation. Not to say that I'm dating that young, but, you know, there. And I was. What's that role? Half plus seven. Half plus seven. Right. So I was. I've actually been quite surprised at the whole thing going, what has happen here? Like, I was married all these years and now you men are doing it too. Yeah, yeah. And. And you know what? And, and we're. And the guys who do it, in particular, the guys who shave and then wear skinny jeans. Thankfully that's not as much in style as it was when I was a medical resident. Oh my gosh. So much jock it. Which is a fungal infection. You know, there was a lot of that. And I remember there was this, uh, one, one patient I had during my. In my residency years who was like a total hipster. And, uh, when I told him like, yeah, you gotta take a break from the skinny jeans, he was like, what? What do you mean? This is my identity. This is my identity. Like. I'm like, and, and stop shaving your pubes. He's like, I what are you doing? I can't. And she's like, I thought his head was gonna explode. So, yeah, so. So back. So back to manufacturing more, More sales for Gillette. Women also used to wear stockings, you know. And then During World War II, stockings weren't available, so women wanted all of these kind of, kind of hacks. We didn't have that word in the 40s, I don't think. But women engaged in all these hacks to make it look like they were wearing stockings when they weren't. And that was where like taking out a, uh, a yardstick or a meter stick and then drawing a line down the back of the, to make it look like the seam. And if you've got hairy legs, that kind of messes up the look. It doesn't look like you're wearing stockings because stockinged legs are kind of more smooth looking. So then there was this like, oh, if I shave my legs and then draw the line down the backs of my legs. There was even makeup you could put on your legs to make it look like you were wearing stockings. Oh my goodness. And so that, that became in vogue during the war. And then after the war, stockings came back. And then Gillette pushed hard on all of these marketing efforts to make women who had body hair seem manly. Oh, thanks, Gillette. Well done. So that they would keep up the shaving routine. Wow. Yeah. And then, you know, bathing suits, if you look at some of more vintage photographs, you know, Even from the 1950s bathing suits, like the Marilyn Monroe era and you know, before then also bathing suits covered the upper inner thigh. Yeah, right. And then the bathing suit steam line kind of went higher and higher and higher and higher. And you know, if you, unless you have some kind of autoimmune disease, if you have hit puberty, if you've reached sexual maturation, you've probably got hair on your upper inner thighs that goes beyond the triangle. Oh yeah, of, uh, course. Right. Of the crotch. And so it, it kind of developed these standards of hair removal developed alongside fashion changes which exposed more and more of a woman's body. So as our bodies became more exposed, the messaging was, okay, you can show that part of you if it's hairless. Mhm. And that got woven into essentially a smear campaign created in a boardroom by Gillette, which was then. They're very, and they're very effective when they, when they put these, the money behind these campaigns, they're, I mean, generationally effective. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So you know, that's why one year, like pants that show your butt crack are in and pants that cover your belly button are in like the mom jean. Right. It's all about like what's being pushed and what's being Marketed and hairless became synonymous with feminine. And hair became manly. But, um. But. And now to your point, it's like caveman manly. It's like grizzly lumberjack. Like. You. Know. Sexy, hygienic guys don't have pubic hair. Or. Or yeah. But to me, men. To me, men have. Men should be hairy. Like. Even that. I love a hairy chest. Like. Are you kidding me? And when that. Some of them have said to me, like, do you want me to shave? And I'm like, excuse me. Like. You ask somebody else that. Like. What. That's your preference? Uh. Buddy, I don't really care, but is this what's going on out there? Like. We're asking each other, is it okay? Should it be? And I'm trying to turn it the other way. I'm like, do not shave. Just stop it. Full stop. Yeah, just be a wild man. Be a wild, bearish man. I say, well, I mean, I don't want to yuck anybody's yum. So, like, some. Some people really like that. And that's their thing. And that's great. If that's your choice. Yeah, right. And that's. That's what makes this personal style versus a cage is. If it's your choice, then. Then rock on. Like. Yes. Then enjoy it. Enjoy it. You're. You feel more comfortable without hair or, you know, you find your partner sexier or you feel sexier, like, cool. But if it's just because, like, you know, Vogue magazine said I have to, then that creates a very different reality for people, in particular for women who tend to be a lot more targeted by these attitudes. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They do. And, uh, you know. Well, again, while it's not directly in our face, it. There is just. It's such an undercurrent. Yeah. You. Know. And. And listen, I'm privy to it too. I'm, um. I'm not above it. You. Know. I put on. I put on some makeup before our call. I hate wearing makeup. Some. I see some people love it. They're like, oh, isn't it so much fun to be a woman? I hate it, too. I hate it. It annoys me. It feels funny. Like. I always felt like I was a clown. I only started wearing it actually in my 40s. So. Yeah. You know, because, I don't know, you start aging and you think, oh, it's a thing. Aging. Right. Aging, for me is. It all ties into all of this. That's my. That's my bug to bear at the moment, is trying to work through that. And Go. Okay. Well, it is, it's wisdom. It's a different time of life and I don't have the time to keep these beauty standards anyway. I don't know how people do it. Yeah, uh, I mean it's a good thing we get wiser as we get older. Right? That's the, uh. Yeah. And I guess the constellation gift, that is the. I know, I'm trying, like what is the positive of going through perimenopause and just about menopause, you know, And I, I give them. Yeah. And I give less shits. I don't care what people think anymore. Like I used to when I was younger, uh, particularly about these topics. Like. I just find it quite laughable when someone has a strong reaction, you know, to something like pubic hair. I'm like, well, you know, that's interesting. Yeah. Wait until you have to like get a divorce and split assets. You think pubic hair is hard? Yeah. Yeah. Right. So pubic hair will be the least of your worries. Yeah. Welcome m back to, to Kyla's Wellness Field Notes, the segment where I volunteer as tribute and try some of the wellness things the Internet keeps throwing at us. This week I've decided to investigate something that I have read on, um, actually seen on TikTok. Not read. There is a guy on TikTok who swears by washing yourself in ready for this Hydrogen peroxide and vinegar. Now how this is done is you take a regular cotton washcloth, you put your body wash or soap on, then you put hydrogen peroxide, like the 3% you get from the pharmacy or maybe it's 0.03% but then add on top of that vinegar. You can use white distilled vinegar or apple cider vinegar. Then wash your body. Now you do this every second day and people on TikTok are having like things come out of this skin, like sand and black things. And uh, he has got some improvement. He's been doing it for four years, but has reduction in scarring, like complete reduction. And also a birthmark's gone. So I'm really interested to see if this works because I think a lot of the things like that, that, you know, people like, hey, you shouldn't do that. We've been taught that by consumerism, you know, they want us buying their potions and lotions and poisons, you know, not, not uh, using easy things like if this works as well as I've seen it work, it's you know like a five dollar a month beauty hack. Yes, please. So far so good. So Nothing's come out yet, but it's only been a few days. But I will keep you updated on how this crazy tick tock trend for health is going. Now, I wanted to give you a little bit of a, uh, dating update is, uh, I don't know what to call this section. I don't like calling it the Cougar Diaries because, you know, that sounds a bit wrong to me. However, I have put Mistress K on hold for a, uh, little minute because I've been sick. And, you know, it does, it does use up some energy. I'm still in my learning phase. I did, however, have a thought about European lovers being better lovers. Ooh, I know that's going to piss off a lot of Aussie men, but they don't listen to the podcast, so I don't really care. But I recently dated a European man and the whole experience was quite different. He engaged in conversation. He actually took me out and paid for it. Oh, my gosh, Would you believe. Because that doesn't happen anymore. I don't know if that's generational, but I like a man to take me out if they want to see me naked. At least buy me dinner. And then he kissed me right that night. But then he said he wanted to wait, and I was like, oh, is that an excuse? He just wants to. Just wants to bail in this situation. But he actually did want to wait. So we waited. And let me tell you, it is all in the waiting. And, um, even when we had our third date and, you know, intimacy was 100% on the table, he still made me wait, which, again, I really enjoyed. But the actual connection and, you know, not pouring at my body or telling me, like, I have. I have had men on dates literally hold, like, put their hand on my boob before they've even kissed me. And I'm like, what is happening here? Like. Who taught them that? And I'm not hating on Australian men, but I kind of am because again, I've had enough experience, experience now to know that something's rotten out there. And women, I am really trying to do God's work by teaching them differently, but it's a lot of hard work. A lot of effort goes into this. I noticed on one of my friends dating profiles because I came across it when I was on my, um, swiping journey and her profile had changed, which I noticed. And it said, european men to the front, please. And at the time I had a little giggle because I was like, oh, yeah, like, I remember that from living over there. But I hadn't really remembered, so now I've remembered. And I would encourage any woman who is single, go out and find yourself a European man just for, uh, you know, for this community experiment that we're doing. And then write to me and let me know. I want to hear about this. So if you understand what I'm talking about, tell me. I really do want to hear from you. And that brings us to the end of today's episode. Thank you for listening and if you've got anything you want me to cover on the podcast, please get in touch. I hope you have a wonderful week and I'll see you next week. This episode is supported by Azure Health. I'm really careful about who I align with on this platform and what stories stood out to me about Azure was their genuinely kind, patient and person centered approach to care. Their integrative practitioners consider the whole person, carer, family and community and take a sustainable and effective approach which includes lifestyle medicine and overall health and well being. Health is a lifelong journey and nervous system regulation is a North Star Star for a balanced life. Azure's multidisciplinary team supports individuals and families across different stages of life with a compassionate, integrative approach to healthcare. You can learn more at www.azurehealth.com. Sam.