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Forum Radio: Dan Sandhu
Jessica talks to Dan Sandhu (London), CEO of Education Development Trust (EDT), a vast not-for-profit organisation working to improve education outcomes around the world. Dan talks about how COVID changed education globally, how remote learning is enabling education to scale faster in countries without structural policy framework, his plans to expand EDT's footprint in sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East and Southeast Asia, and identifying opportunities for the Foreign and Commonwealth Development Office. 'Education is a great export out of the UK,' says Dan.
Dan Sandhu
[Speaker 2]
Hello and welcome to Forum Radio, our ongoing series of interviews with Forum members all around the world. This week I'm delighted to be talking to Dan Sandhu. Dan is based in London where he is CEO of Education Development Trust and this is an international not-for-profit organisation with 1,100 colleagues working to improve education outcomes around the world and reaches more than 12.3 million learners in 40 countries. So thank you so much for joining us, Dan. It's great to talk to you here.
[Speaker 1]
Pleasure to be here, Jessica. Thanks for inviting me. [Speaker 2]
And so you've spent a lot of your career in the education sector. Previously, you were chief executive of Sparks Learning, which provided help with maths and grew the business from catering for two schools to nearly 2 million learners in over half of the UK secondary schools and establishing itself in 25 countries. I mean, it's amazing thinking of all those people improving their maths.
So what's been your inspiration or who has been your inspiration?
[Speaker 1]
I've been a fascinating journey. I mean, the first 10 years of my career were in technology and services. And I remember when I got into education, apart from everyone's been in education as students, or if you have children, you face off to education.
But when I first invested in education companies and started helping education companies, it was fascinating because I could go home and talk to the voice. I could talk to my kids about what I was doing. And that was quite interesting.
And then, you know, it started with that, and I stayed in education over the last 15 years. And the inspiration is derived from the people you impact. As I said, in my previous organisation, we effectively became one of the largest education technology organisations in the UK, affecting 2.3 million children in the UK and in 25 countries. And now, I'm part of EDT and CEO of EDT, and we have an impact on so many individuals. And that's where the inspiration comes from. Early last year, I was in Nairobi, and you know, you go to a slum school where EDT has been delivering school improvement through education, the girls' education programme there.
And you meet children who would never have an opportunity. And you see these children who go out of those slum environments into education, then on to university. If that is an
inspiration, I don't know what is.
And you see these, the opportunities being presented through education. And it's not saviourism, it's actually enabling the local organisations to deliver what we know they can. And that operates everywhere.
So a lot of my inspiration comes from seeing the impact of some of these heartfelt journeys that these learners have gone through, where the opportunities haven't existed, all the way through to somewhere like in the UK, where someone like we operate in West Yorkshire in skills, giving people the chance of employability and getting them off the unemployment and not training environment into training and employability. So the inspiration does really come from the impact we make.
[Speaker 2]
That's wonderful. I mean, I feel like these are the questions that we're asking everybody, and you've explained something already. But you know, what is it that you love about what you do?
Perhaps something in the in the actual operations? Is there something that you enjoy about that as well? Not just the impact that the business has?
[Speaker 1]
I think I've been really lucky in my time building organisations. I enjoy building organisations. I enjoy building great teams.
And that comes from having done, I've lost track, eight, nine, 10 startups in my career, where I've been on both sides of the table, be it either as an investor, or as a founder, you know, you're sat in a room on your own and thinking, okay, I've got an idea, where do we take this? And I think that's what I love. I love the creativity of moving forward.
Momentum is always powerful. It's the leap of faith. It's the bringing a team with you.
It's having a team follow you over the hill and top of the hill. And that's really exciting. Because, you're at the front, and you're just hoping that every step you take is a good step that people are following.
I think that's been fascinating. I really enjoy that, bringing a team together. People have always asked me what makes a successful outcome, a successful business, or a successful venture.
And I always think it's three key things, people, people, people. And if you can pick the right team, and you give them the right direction, have a great purpose, it doesn't really matter whether it's investor backed, or it's for profit, or non-for profit, or charitable. If you have a purpose, and you all wake up as a team to do the right thing, that's what I love.
And I think it takes a while. It doesn't happen overnight. If you're in a startup environment,
you're bringing a team together.
If you're inheriting an organization, it takes a time for you to make sure you are not imposing your will on the organization, but nurturing the organization to evolve. It's all about evolution of an organization. And I think that's what I love the most.
And operationally, as you said, it manifests in organization structure. It manifests in bringing on great individuals, creating a great C-suite like we have done at EDT, getting your presence felt in the organization, getting your presence felt in the market. And that ability to vocalize your capabilities and your purpose, I thoroughly enjoy that.
[Speaker 2]
That's right. It strikes me in so many ways. I often find these correlations between the arts world and the business world.
In the end, it's all about telling stories, isn't it? [Speaker 1]
Oh, yeah.
[Speaker 2]
I love it.
[Speaker 1]
That's exactly what I say to the organization. It's about telling stories. It's not about the stats, and it's not about how many people we have in which parts of the world, and how many contracts we have.
It's about the journey of the individual. It's a journey of the girls in Kenya who wouldn't have got into school without our intervention. It's a journey of the children in Brunei who are learning English, because we've been there for a while doing English, or the schools who are improving and driving and growing through the rankings as organizations.
Those stories are powerful. Every year, we issue an impact report. And in that impact report, we tell stories about individuals who, through what we've done, how we've supported them, have got better employability options in the UK, teachers who've gone through the professional qualification in the UK.
It's about stories. I am a storyteller. And I think if you tell the story, I'm talking to one of the best storytellers I know, but I'm a storyteller.
And if you tell the right stories, you bring people along the journey with you. Nothing better like that. And to be honest, it's easier to tell stories than tell stats.
I feel it's really easy to just say, this is a journey. I went and met this child in Nairobi, or I was in Brunei, and we did this, or we did this in Gateshead. I think that's very powerful and very emotional.
And lots of individuals, if you read lots of management books, they try to keep emotion and business separate. I'm a firm believer that they are so entwined. You've got to make sure you're emotionally engaged and any successful sports team will tell you that.
If you're not emotionally on the field, on the court, you're not there. So it's not about management, management precepts or management ideology. It's about emotional engagement with what you do.
[Speaker 2]
I love that. Thank you. Can you tell us a little something about, you know, where you are now, you know, in terms of the EDT and where you will be in five years time?
And also, what do you think you need to get there? [Speaker 1]
I think it's a really good question. Globally, education is changing. COVID changed education, perception of what teachers do changed.
And so, you know, skills is changing globally. It's a big demand for great employability and dignified employment. At the moment, and I've been at EDT now for 18 months, and we've recrafted our strategy for the next five years.
It's a really good question as to where we are going to be in five years, but I know exactly where we're going to be in five years time. So we looked at the strategy of which territories we operate in, how we go deeper into those territories, which new territories and areas we want to operate in. And that's around expanding our footprint in the UK, in sub-Saharan Africa, in the Middle East and Southeast Asia.
It's about doing more to stay in those territories, not just delivering contracts, but making sure we provide not just education for employability options going forward. I'd like to lead that move of EDT forward into the new world of growth. It's challenging.
You know, the global markets are challenging in education. There are lots of demands on governments and organizations on where resources are deployed. We're working with some of the largest foundations like the Gates Foundation to work out how we help them identify opportunities across sub-Saharan Africa.
We're working with the FCDO, that's the Foreign and Commonwealth Development Office, globally, and particularly in Central Asia at the moment, how we identify opportunities for FCDO to make an impact, that whole piece about soft power globally. Education is a great export out
of the UK as is skills. We're helping those organizations.
And I think for me, it's just to make sure we're established firmly as a global organization, which happens to be headquartered in the UK with great teams in both the Europe, sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East and Southeast Asia. And yes, it may take five years, it may take longer. We've set a target for 2030 to deliver some great outcomes in terms of impact we make, but also how we develop our teams to get there.
[Speaker 2]
I can't wait. I can't wait to watch it. I think education is one of the most exciting spaces at the moment, because we're about ripe for a change.
The last big upheaval in education was around the industrial revolution. [Speaker 1]
Yes, I think it's really interesting because you said, what do you need? Difficult because there's only so much from the outside you can impose. It needs a change of mindset in some areas.
And interestingly, some countries are leapfrogging that mindset in terms of adoption of technology, for instance. It's like how the mobile phone revolution accelerated far quicker in territories where there was no core telecoms infrastructure, because that's where it went. The similar is happening in education and technology.
In territories where there is no structural policy framework or educational establishments, this new remote learning, this ability to use technology, the ability to scale faster is happening. I see that. I think what I need is, apart from having a fantastic team and a great board to support us growing, I need the foundations of the governments and the international development organizations really looking at the impact they made, not on programs, not to say we will go to Ethiopia to deliver a program.
We're working a lot with Ethiopia and Sierra Leone at the moment. It's looking past that, talking to the ministers in Sierra Leone. They understand it's not just about delivering the program until 2028.
It's about what happens afterwards, not packing up bags and coming out of the territory, but continuing. We have operations in Zimbabwe. It's easy for me to say, well, it's a great program.
It's going to be three years and then we exit. I don't want to exit. I want to make sure we stay there and have a continued impact.
We all know the stories. We all know the stories sat in the UK over the last 30 years where we've seen territories taking international funding, and 20 years later, they're still taking international funding because what was done was such a point solution rather than structural system-wide change. That's what we do really well at EDT, is go to do a system-wide, long-term, sustainable
change.
Then you know in five years, 10 years time, it will still be there and you won't have to deploy billions again to do it. Governments are appreciating it as are funding agencies.
[Speaker 2]
Thank you. I can see that I'm going to want a longer podcast with you at some point because there's just so much to say. Unfortunately, we're giving ourselves a limited amount of time.
So just to talk a little bit about Forum. I know you've been a member for quite a few years now. Has anything really surprised you since in your membership?
[Speaker 1]
Well, I joined Forum way back when. I was actually remembering seven, eight, nine years ago, pretty much in the first few years since Simon set it up. At the time, I was surprised because I expected it to be like another networking organization where you're surrounded by, no disrespect, I'm an accountant, I can say that, by accountants and lawyers selling you their wares.
It wasn't that at all. It was a very eclectic mix and it's continued to be an eclectic mix. I was out in New York when the New York chapter was launched many years ago.
Even then, it was great and it was surprising about the mix of individuals, both in terms of social capital, but also in terms of knowledge and experience and learning new information. I'm a learner. I like learning.
I like reading. I read books. You wouldn't believe four books on the go at the same time.
So I like information. I think that's what I've got from every engagement with Forum. My surprise has been how eclectic it has been yet.
[Speaker 2]
That's wonderful to hear. Thank you. And how has Forum maybe helped your growth, either professionally or personally?
[Speaker 1]
I think we all learn from people we meet. You know, meeting some of Pippa Malgrave, listening to her talk at an event or listening to the previous head of the GCHQ's book I actually use actively in times of crisis. Those kind of engagements are really important because it's you don't know you need the information or you don't know you need the knowledge until you're sat in that room, surrounded by fellow Forum members, listening to someone imparting some really interesting economic information, geopolitical information, social information about what's
happening in the world.
I think that's very powerful. And professionally, that's very important for me in the world I operate in. But also personally, it's just good to learn new pieces of information.
You never know where that's going to take you. Being in New York and talking to someone who's into antiques, and I would never have thought I would spend two hours listening to someone talk about antiques, but it's fascinating. Walked away learning things which I did not know about before.
And, you know, the old adage, you learn something new every day. That's a good trait. [Speaker 2]
It's great. Thank you so much indeed, Dan. It's been really kind of you to give us your time today.
Thank you. And thank you so much for listening to Forum Radio. Remember that you can contact directly all the members wherever they are through the Forum website on forum.club. Just go to the members directory and use the search engine to find people either by professional or personal interest. Also keep an eye on the news feed for member news as well as events happening in the chapter where you are or wherever you might be travelling to. Until next week, goodbye. Thank you.
